Transcript – Episode 232

[Show music begins]

Alison Siggard: This is Episode 232 of Alohomora! for November 11, 2017.

[Show music continues]

Alison: Hello, listeners, and welcome back to another episode of Alohomora!, our global podcast on topics of Harry Potter. [laughs] Is that what we’re saying now?

Haley Lewis: Who knows?

Kristen Keys: I guess.

Alison: Something along those lines. You know who we are.

Haley: We talk about Harry Potter.

Alison: We do. That’s our thing.

Kristen: Anything and everything.

Alison: Yes. I’m Alison Siggard.

Haley: I’m Haley Lewis.

Kristen: And I am Kristen Keys. And today we have a special guest, Aureo, with us today all the way from Germany. Say hello to our guest.

Aureo Lieb: Hi. Yeah. I’m back again here.

Kristen: Yay!

Alison: What was your last episode you were on?

Aureo: That was the Sirius and James prequel [discussion], I think.

Kristen: Ooh, very cool.

Alison: [gasps] That’s right.

Aureo: Yeah. I don’t remember when, but I think that was the last one.

Kristen: Sweet. Well, we are glad to have you back.

Aureo: Yeah. I’m glad that this week I’m actually recording for Alohomora! and not for SpeakBeasty.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: Haley and I joined recently.

Alison: Yeah!

Haley: We’re moving over.

Alison: Yeah. We stole you guys this week.

Haley: You did. It’s okay, though.

Kristen: That’s why we’re all family.

Haley: It’s funny. This is the first time me and Aureo are recording together on a different podcast.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: It’s a different podcast. Not even the one you’re normally on.

Haley: We’re a mess.

Alison: Well, thank you. Yeah, I guess we should say as well, thank you to Haley for joining us today, stepping in. Haley, have you been on this show before?

Haley: I’ve been on the show a bunch. I think I’ve been on it three different times. I did the education episode, I did the one about the theory that Harry is imagining everything, and one other one. I can’t remember, but another one also. [laughs]

Alison: Wow. I don’t remember individual episodes.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: I remember parts of conversations, but I’m not like, “Yes, I remember this episode number and what happened and who’s on.”

Haley: Oh, I don’t know the numbers.

Kristen: Yeah, that’s too many.

Aureo: You’re on so many more times. I mean…

Alison: I am not Michael.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Well, we’re going to add another one to both of your repertoires of what you’ve been on.

Haley: Fun.

Alison: This week our topic is Shipping Wars. We’re going to talk about all of the fun little pairings that happen throughout Harry Potter.

Aureo: Or don’t talk about.

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Alison: Or don’t or shouldn’t, or we don’t understand why people think they should.

Kristen: Or should, but haven’t. [laughs]

Alison: Yes. There’s quite a few of those.

Haley: Maybe we’ll make up some new ones.

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Haley: And let’s take a minute to thank our sponsor for this episode, BarkBox. For a free extra month of BarkBox, visit when you subscribe to a six or 12-month plan. Thank you so much, BarkBox.

Aureo and Haley: Hooray!

Haley: But before we talk about it, we can talk about Patreon. Yay! This episode is sponsored by Lauren Debrees, is it? Someone help me.

Kristen: Alison? [laughs]

Alison: Sure?

Haley: I don’t want to say her name wrong.

Aureo: I want to say Deberees, but I don’t know.

Alison: Deberes?

Haley: Lauren, we love you.

Alison: Yes, Lauren, thank you. [claps]

Haley: Lauren, you’re so great. And your last name is great too. We just can’t say it.

[Aureo and Kristen laugh]

Haley: But thanks for sponsoring us this week. And also, you can become a sponsor for as little as $1 a month over on Patreon. And on there we continue to release exclusive tidbits for all of our sponsors. And now we have a new perk on Patreon, which is a Facebook group that we have that you can join if you are on Patreon with us. And we talk about all different kinds of Harry Potter stuff and have discussion, and it’s a hoot.

Aureo: Yeah. But you need to know the password.

Haley: Uh-huh. Yes.

Alison: So if you know the password, because you’re a Patreon sponsor, you can come join us in Dumbledore’s Office where we will reveal the secrets of – I don’t know – everything.

Aureo: I don’t know. Take a dip into the Pensieve for something.

[Alison, Aureo, and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Yes.

Alison: Yeah, we’ve really been having some cool conversations on there lately, so come join us. And thank you, Lauren.

Haley: Thank you, Lauren.

Kristen: Yes, thank you, Lauren D.

[Aureo and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Lauren D.

Alison: So let’s jump into our discussion. We have a lot of notes. [laughs]

Haley: So many.

Alison: I think we’re going to have a lot to talk about. So we’re going to start off in talking about shipping. Listeners, if you don’t know because you’re not like…

Aureo: Us.

[Aureo, Haley, and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Well, and also… because I didn’t know this for a long time. If you’re not über into the Internet side of…

Haley: Fandom.

Alison: … fandom – which is fine if you’re not – that’s not a big deal. [laughs] Shipping, or a ship, is short for relationship. So a romantic pairing of two characters; I guess usually it’s two characters.

Haley: Can be more.

Alison: [laughs] Either one that actually happens in canon or ones that people just decide they wish they could see.

Haley: Their headcanon.

Alison: And this happens across everything in scary fashions sometimes. [laughs]

Aureo: Sometimes.

Alison: So that’s what we’re talking about today. And we’re going to start with the ones that are actually…

Aureo: Shouldn’t we also shortly explain OTP?

Haley: Oh yeah.

Alison: Oh yeah, let’s explain that. You do that.

Aureo: Oh, okay. If I’m not completely mistaken, OTP stands for “one true pair.”

Haley: Yep.

Alison: Yes.

Aureo: So basically everyone has one OTP that they say, “that’s the one true pair.”

Haley: Except everyone has a million OTPs. Let’s be real.

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Kristen: It’s one OTP per fandom, except we have all of them.

Alison: Try seven.

Haley: It’s more like that’s the one you super, super love that’s your fave until the end.

Aureo: Yeah.

Alison: Yes, so that’s some of the vernacular you need if you’re going to be listening to this episode. We’re going to start with the ones that are actually canon – they end up together; they are a couple – and of course, let’s start with the big one: Harry and Ginny.

Aureo: I was like, “That’s the big one?” [laughs]

Haley: Well, Harry is a big character.

Kristen: It’s Harry Potter.

Alison: Okay. Harry is a little important to this series. [laughs] Just a little bit.

Haley: Even though their relationship kind of gets pushed to the back.

Kristen: Yeah.

[Aureo laughs]

Alison: Well, Harry was busy, okay? [laughs] He had some other stuff going on.

Kristen: He was saving everybody.

Haley: Do you want to just go through and everyone can say their thoughts on Harry and Ginny?

Alison: Yeah, let’s do that. Let’s start off with our initial, “here it is,” and then we can…

Kristen: Discuss.

Alison: … dig into why.

Kristen: Okay. So I know I had started off to me, Harry and Ginny, book versus movie automatically. Love them in the books, hate them in the movie.

[Alison laughs]

Aureo: Absolutely agree.

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: Exactly. I put that they’re tragic in the movie. And it’s not Bonnie Wright’s fault; she just got really bad lines.

Kristen: Yes. Not blaming her at all.

Haley: Although I hate their kisses so much too. So bad. [laughs]

Alison: Well, yeah, that’s bad. Actually, I brought up that point because I was watching Order of the Phoenix the other day, and it’s honestly just the way Ginny was written. Because there’s that moment in Order of the Phoenix when they’re all walking across the bridge back from Hogsmeade after starting the DA, and Hermione has that line of “Cho couldn’t keep her eyes off of you.” And they made a really interesting directorial choice where the camera pauses for a minute on Ginny’s face, and Bonnie Wright does such a good job of looking like [she’s] trying to hide how sad that makes her feel.

Haley: Yeah. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Alison: And it’s great and I was like, “Look! This could’ve been awesome if they had written her right.” But they didn’t give her a chance.

Haley: And I also like the scene in Half-Blood Prince where she’s like, “Shut it!” to everyone at the Quidditch tryouts. I do like that scene.

Alison: Yeah, that one’s good.

Kristen: Their kiss, no.

Alison: I do not like…

Kristen: Bleah!

Alison: No.

Kristen: Ahhh!

Alison: Christmas at the Burrow, please kill me.

Haley: Get away from me.

Kristen: “Let me tie your shoe.”

Haley: No! I hate it! Stop it!

Kristen: Oh my gosh.

Alison: “Open up, you.”

[Haley laughs]

Alison: Literally the worst.

Aureo: Basically everything that’s cool about Ginny and makes the pairing really cool, they just took from her in the movie.

Haley: They really did.

Kristen: Because it’s great in the book. Loved them in the book. They work well together and you can really see it. I don’t know, I saw more of the chemistry there in the book than I did in the actual movie where I can watch it.

Alison: Yes.

Aureo: I still love this. There’s this little fan art thing where it’s basically James and Lily talking in heaven or wherever they are. And it’s basically James being like, “Aw, look, Harry has found Ginny. It’s basically us; they’re just like us. It’s the same all over.” And then it’s the scene in Half-Blood Prince where Snape just deducts points from them for walking, and James is like, “See, even Snape sees it. It’s the same again.”

[Alison, Aureo, and Kristen laugh]

Haley: It really is.

Haley: I will say that’s my one thing about that. It’s a little weird that Ginny is basically his mom. [laughs]

Aureo: Yeah.

Alison: I don’t know, though.

Aureo: Aside from her playing Quidditch and being less bookish.

Haley: No, she’s not like Lily, but it’s just funny that she also kind of looks like her. It’s just a laugh. But I also wrote that, like Michael always says on the podcast, while their chemistry is good in the books, the scenes aren’t there. I hate that [line] in Half-Blood Prince where “we spent all these days at the lake.” Show them to me. Tell me what happened. Don’t just say it. Let me see some of the relationship.

Kristen: Yeah. That’s true.

Alison: Yeah. I mean, I get that but also, at the same time, I’m kind of okay with it. [laughs] Just because it’s not super important to the narrative.

Aureo: Yeah. I could see if there had been something and the editor was like, “We can cut it. This is book is already super long.”

Haley: True.

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: Well, and Jo is a good enough writer that I think she might’ve just cut most of them herself. I’m sure she knows what happened. I just think she knew, okay, that’s not the story she’s trying to tell. And as much as we all love that, it also gets away from things that are a little bit more important. Okay, here’s another fandom example of why you don’t need to add unnecessary romantic things in there – Spider-Man: Homecoming, right? At the end… I guess, spoiler alert, even though that came out months ago. At the end when they’ve got that scene where you find out that Tony and Pepper are back together and he’s going to propose or whatever, as much as I was like, “Okay, I’m glad to know that information,” I didn’t need it in that movie because it literally has nothing to do with Peter Parker. He’s not even there!

Kristen: I loved it. I thought it was good. Because the movie before they talked about how they were on odds and ends.

Alison: No, no, no, I know. But it had nothing to do with the narrative they were trying to tell in that movie. And so I was like, “While I appreciate having this, I didn’t need it right here.”

Haley: You wanted them to wait for Infinity War?

Alison: Sure.

Aureo: But wasn’t the whole “they were on a break” also a thing that happened in some other movie that didn’t really need to be relayed at all?

Kristen: Well, they’ve got to say that stuff because they’re not in the movie, so people always then comment on websites on the Internet like, “Well, why wasn’t she in the movie? Why isn’t there anything about it? Blah, blah, blah.” Just like us with this series.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kristen: So they always throw in that one-liner so now everybody is happy.

Haley: Bringing it back to Harry Potter

Alison: Yeah, that’s what I was saying – bringing it back is what I’m saying – especially that late into the series. It’s Book 6. Harry has got some crap to figure out right now that we’re all like, “Please figure this out.”

Haley: The scenes we do get of them are so good. My favorite scene with them is when they just start dating and they’re talking about the tattoos, where they’re like…

Kristen: [laughs] Oh, yeah!

Alison: Oh my gosh, yes!

Haley: The best scene ever.

Kristen: “I knew Ginny was lying.”

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Haley: So great.

Aureo: I still wish that they both went to play professional Quidditch. That would’ve been cool.

Kristen: Yeah, that would’ve been.

Alison: It would’ve been cool, but I love imagining Harry being at every single match and being the most proud husband in the whole world of her playing Quidditch. And everyone knows Harry is a good Quidditch player too, and so they’re like…

Haley: So you know that she’s good, yeah.

Alison: Yeah, but they’re like, “Well, why isn’t he playing?” And he’s there decked out head-to-toe in Holyhead Harpies gear and he’s cheering in the stands and…

Kristen: That’s very true.

Alison: … I can see it becoming a thing.

Haley: “Oh gosh, here comes Harry Potter.”

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: Well, yeah, but also can you imagine if they come up with a thing? Every time she scores a goal she blows him a kiss or something, and everyone knows it and it’s this big deal. I can imagine them doing something cute and somewhat flashy.

Haley: Oh, definitely.

Alison: Well, not super flashy, but something funny like that that people freak out about.

Haley: Another thing I really like [that] someone mentioned too – again, going off canon – I loved Ginny in Cursed Child.

Alison: Yes!

Haley: Because I feel like when I was watching it – I was in the fourth row watching this, so I was really close – I was like, “There’s Ginny. There she is. I see her. I’ve never seen her in real life before.”

Kristen: This is the Ginny we wanted in the movies, this character. No, I totally agree. Love Ginny in Cursed Child. It was amazing.

Haley: I went backstage…

Alison: She’s fantastic.

Haley: I went backstage at the stage door and I met Poppy [Miller] and I told her that, and then she was like, “Thank you.” And then she retweeted my picture of us together and I was very happy.

Kristen: Aw. So nice.

[Aureo laughs]

Alison: And that’s the thing I love about Cursed Child too. I think it really shows us some of the Ginny/Harry dynamic that we didn’t get in the seven novels. I especially love the moments where Harry’s having these dreams and he’s freaking out and Ginny knows what to do to comfort him, especially the way they did it on stage. I saw Jamie Parker and Poppy Miller too, and he always leaned into her a little bit. And very much physically there was this connection you could see between these characters, too, of how they relied on each other and how they strengthened each other.

Haley: Yeah. And you know [how] a lot of people say they don’t like Cursed Child? If you get to see it, it’s worth it for Ginny; Ginny is amazing in Cursed Child. It’s the one medium you get to actually see her be great.

Alison: I also love the line in Cursed Child where she says that Harry does most of the cooking.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: That’s just so cute to me because I can totally see Harry… Obviously we know that Jo always wanted to give Harry…

Haley: A family.

Alison: … a family, and that was her end goal; he got the family he never got to have. So I can see Harry being super domestic.

Haley: Harry is the Molly of [his family]. [laughs]

Alison: Yeah. He just threw himself all-in learning how to cook and taking care of stuff and being like, “This is our house and we are a family,” and it’s awesome. And Ginny’s like…

Haley: “I got to go play Quidditch. Bye.”

Alison: … “Okay. Yeah, let’s do this.”

Aureo: I also like that she was the only one that could really calm Draco when Draco is freaking out: “My son’s been taken!” and she’s like, “So is mine.” And then Draco just shuts up and he gets the point. [laughs]

Alison: Now that you say that, that’s really interesting because that’s a parallel to Order of the Phoenix where Harry’s freaking out about thinking he’s possessed, and she’s like, “Well, who do you know who has been possessed? Hello!” That’s a very Ginny thing to do, to be like, “Stop focusing so much on yourself if you’re trying to solve this problem. Think about who else has this problem and how can they help you.”

Haley: Yeah, I also love in Order that line where Harry is like, “My parents are dead!” and Ginny goes, “Harry, we know.”

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: Oh gosh. Okay, I want to move on to the real big OTP, the actual one.

Alison: Yeah. Yes, for reals. You all know what’s coming: Ron and Hermione. [laughs]

Haley: Bless those children.

Alison: We all agree, yes, this is the big one. This is the good. This is the [imitates heavenly choir] aaaah! We love them. So obviously at the beginning, they are kind of…

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: We all know what’s coming.

Alison: How do you describe them? [laughs]

Aureo: See, my point really is that people draw them out to be such big opposites when they are not really that much of opposites.

Alison: Yeah.

Aureo: Obviously they are not maybe as harmonic as other couples could be, but they are not as much as an opposite as Hermione and Draco would be. That would be a complete opposites story.

Haley: Oh yeah.

Alison: Oh geez, we’re going to get to that.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Ron and Hermione are just a good balance for each other. It’s not that they’re opposites; they just balance each other out. I love them so much and I just can’t even put it into words. [laughs]

Kristen: It’s not that super opposites attract, but I don’t know. He’s got the laughter/funny side and she’s got that more serious side, so it helps bring out the best in both of them. And that’s what I really love about it too.

Aureo: Exactly.

Alison: Yeah.

Kristen: He can give her some comedic relief and help her out and get through those hard situations, whereas she can shape him up a little bit and everything like that. So that’s what I absolutely love about this relationship. That’s what I’m always trying to find, I feel like, in my life too. I need a funnier person. That’s what I’m always looking for. I need somebody, that comedic relief, in my life from everything that’s going on. I need my Ron Weasley. [laughs]

Haley: I think the problem that people have with Ron and Hermione is they’re focusing on the movie and they’re like, “Ron’s dumb.” Ron’s not dumb; he’s actually quite smart. You read the books and a lot of his lines are given to Hermione in the movies. He’s not just this dope. He’s a pure-blood; he knows what’s happening; he understands the world; he’s bringing her into this world. You’re seeing it from Harry’s point of view, but Ron also brought Hermione into this world too.

Alison: Yeah. I read an interesting thing once where someone was analyzing their relationship, because a lot of people also bring up, “Well, they argue all the time and they’re always bickering,” or whatever. And someone brought up, “Well, that’s one of the forms [of communication] for both of them.” One of the forms of showing they care about something is their willingness to engage in it. They’re passionate; they’re going to figure out the nitty-gritty bits of it. And it was a really interesting analysis. They don’t do that with Harry because they know Harry is not that type of person, but they know the other person they can challenge and they will spar with them and they both like that. They both like the idea of analyzing and arguing and coming to an agreement or making their views known, and so they can come to something together. And I think that’s actually a really great strength of them. They make up the differences in each other. So the things Ron isn’t as strong at Hermione is strong at, and the things Hermione is not as strong at Ron is strong at. So they end up clicking together in this perfect little…

Kristen: Niche.

Alison: I almost said harmony and then I was like, “Wait…”

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: “You can’t say that.” Wrong ship. Harmony, in the actual word. Lowercase.

[Kristen laughs]

Haley: Because the thing is, Hermione would not like a yes-man. She would not like that. So are you going to talk about what happened a few years ago?

Kristen: [sound of disgust]

[Haley and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Yeah, so you guys remember… oh geez, actually it’s probably almost been four years now, right? When did this come out?

Haley: I don’t [know]. I blocked it out of my head.

Kristen: Yeah, I just don’t…

Alison: I’m looking up the article right now… February of 2014.

Kristen: So three years ago.

Alison: That was a long time ago. This article came out in the Sunday Times and it wasn’t even a real article. It was a preview of an interview between J.K. Rowling and Emma Watson that was coming out. The article, the actual interview itself, was coming out in Wonderland magazine, but the Sunday Times published this preview that took a lot of quotes from this interview and took a lot of them out of context and started this whole big explosion…

Kristen: Ridiculous.

Alison: … based on the headline, “J.K. [Rowling] admits Hermione should have wed Harry.”

Kristen: Ay ya, ya, ya, ya. Clickbait. [laughs]

Alison: And everyone legitimately freaked out. I remember this happening; I remember when we first caught wind of this and the MuggleNet staff freaked out. Everyone was like, “What the actual heck is going on here?” And everyone was like, “Wait, but it’s not the actual interview. What happens in the actual interview? Can anyone find the actual interview?” And the actual interview wasn’t published yet.

Kristen: And everybody’s commenting to me, all my friends, “Do you see this? Do you see this?” I’m like, “Yeah, and the interview isn’t even out, so it means nothing. That’s just called clickbait and you fell for it. Don’t tag me in this again.” [laughs]

Alison: Yeah. Seriously.

Haley: Don’t @ me.

Alison: It’s almost been four years and, I kid you not, I am still fielding questions about this.

Kristen: It’s ridiculous.

Alison: Four years later! Because everyone caught on to just this preview…

Kristen: Yeah, and not reading the actual article.

Alison: … and just started publishing stuff about the preview. Yeah, and nobody went back when the actual interview was published and revised their statements or actually cleared stuff up. Basically what happened is they talked about a lot of things, but obviously because Emma played Hermione, they talked about Hermione. And so here’s a quote from Rowling in the interview:

“I know that Hermione is incredibly recognizable to a lot of readers, and yet, you don’t see a lot of Hermiones in film or on TV except to be laughed at. I mean that the intense, clever, and in some ways, not terribly self-aware girl is rarely the heroine. And I really wanted her to be the heroine. She is part of me, although she is not wholly me. I think that is how I might have appeared to people when I was younger, but that is not really how I was inside.”

And then we get this quote that was quoted in the Times, which was the first spark that says Ron and Hermione’s relationship was “wish fulfillment.” But actually what she’s saying in context is that she was fulfilling this wish for Hermione’s character to be happy, not that it was Jo’s wish that they end up together. That’s not what she’s saying. The reason she paired them together [was] that she wanted Hermione to be happy. And then we get this other quote.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: We get a couple more quotes, and then we get this one where she starts talking about Harry and Hermione and she says,

“In some ways Harry and Hermione are a better fit, and I’ll tell you something very strange. When I wrote Hallows I felt this quite strongly when I had Hermione and Harry together in the tent. I hadn’t told Steve Kloves about that, and when he wrote the script he felt exactly the same thing at exactly the same point. And actually I liked that scene in the film because it was articulating something I hadn’t said but I’d felt. I really liked it and I thought it was right. I think you do feel the ghost of what could have been in that scene, and he got it perfectly in acting it to Emma. You got perfectly the sort of mixture of awkwardness and genuine emotion because it teeters on the edge of, ‘What are we doing?’ and ‘Oh, come on, let’s do it anyway,’ which I thought was just right for that time.”

And then she goes on and we get the bit that clears stuff up, and she says,

“Maybe she and Ron will be all right with a bit of counseling, you know. I wonder what happens at wizard marriage counselling. They’ll probably be fine. He needs to work on his self-esteem issues, and she needs to work on being a little less critical.”

So we actually got, not that Jo was like, “Oh, I should have had Harry and Hermione end up together,” but that she acknowledges…

Haley: They were alone in a tent together!

[Haley and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Yes. And they were on the run.

Kristen: And they were teenagers with their hormones raging the most and nothing happened.

Alison: Yeah. They were in a horrible scary situation.

Haley: But the thing is, nothing did happen. That’s the thing.

Alison: Exactly. And both of them were away from the people they actually loved and missing them. Because, at that point, I’m pretty sure Harry’s looking at Ginny on the map, right? And Ron has just left, and there’s a lot of pain going on and mixed-up emotions and they’re looking for comfort.

Haley: And they do love each other. Not in the romantic way, but Harry and Hermione do love each other.

Alison: Yeah!

Kristen: Oh yeah, like brother and sister.

Aureo: And even that, there were a couple of days when Ron left they weren’t even talking to each other. They’re both stewing in their own grief, in a way.

Kristen: Grief, yeah. Basically.

Alison: In the book they hardly talk to each other during that whole time. Harry even tells Ron that afterwards. He’s like, “She cried for a week when you left and we hardly talked since you’ve been gone.”

Kristen: Yeah. It’s hard for both of them.

Haley: Let me tell you, though. I remember when Cursed Child was first announced, I was terrified about what they were going to do with Ron and Hermione. I’m like, “If these two get divorced in this play, I’m going to lose my mind.” And then I remember at first when the cast came out, it said “Ron Weasley and Hermione Granger,” and I was like, “Wait, what?” But it’s just that she kept her last name, thank God.

Alison: Yes. I like them in Cursed Child.

Kristen: Oh yeah.

Alison: They’re very sweet.

Kristen: Yeah, and when you see them in Cursed Child, you’re like, “Everything’s good.” Every marriage is going to have its ups and downs no matter what. But it was still good to see them together.

Haley: And in every reality, they were still in love with each other. I honestly felt like that in Cursed Child was J.K. Rowling’s “I’m sorry” note to everyone she upset.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: It wasn’t even her fault. [In] the interview she said they were fine.

Haley: I feel like when they asked her for notes about the show, she said, “Please, just Ron and Hermione. Just keep them together. I don’t need this anymore.”

Kristen: [unintelligibile] This is my original thought anyways.

Alison: So that is the truth. If you want to read more – and you can read the whole interview – we’ve got it on our article on MuggleNet and we’ll link it in the comments.

Aureo: We also have it in the “Interviews” section on MuggleNet.

Alison: Yes. Go actually read the full story.

Haley: Bottom line, fight us if you don’t think Ron and Hermione are ideal. [laughs]

Alison: Seriously, though.

Kristen: They are together their whole lives. Get over it.

Haley: Also just for a disclaimer, if you do disagree with our ships, we are not trying to force them on you, and you can ship whatever you want. But also fight me.

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Alison: Yes.

Kristen: But know that Ron and Hermione are together. [laughs]

Alison: I think people have already taken “you can ship whatever you want” in the Harry Potter fandom pretty far.

Aureo: Draco and an apple. Isn’t there one with Ron and chicken?

Haley: Ron and his chicken wing.

Alison: Yes. I don’t understand. [laughs]

Haley: I love the dragon one so much though.

Alison: But we’ll get there. We’ll get to the ones we don’t understand.

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: So you mean the next one?

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Well, yes. That was great. That was so good!

Aureo: So the next one that we have in the canon pairing section, even though we don’t see it as much in canon, is Snape and Lily.

Haley: Okay, I’m going to start this because – hello, nice to meet you – I am the one person on this podcast who does like Snape as a character. Hi ya.

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: I know he’s a bad person, but written as a character, he’s one of my faves.

Alison: Oh, as a character I think he’s great.

Aureo: Yeah, he’s a great character but a horrible person.

Haley: Yeah, but here’s the thing… I will step up here. Okay, so here’s what I think of this ship…

Kristen: Then we’ll knock you back down, so go for it.

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: Well, I said [that] you obviously can’t ship them as adults without crumbling the series because no Harry and, you know, anything. I really do see it as reasonable to ship them at school with each other at Hogwarts, and also Jo herself has actually said that if he hadn’t gone to the dark side that she would have grown feelings for him as well. So I get really mad; my one thing about Snape is I get really mad when people disregard the fact that they had just such a strong friendship and then they’re like, “Oh he’s just obsessed with her.” It’s not like he didn’t know her; he’s just behind the curtain looking at this girl. They were best friends since they were legit nine years old. There was obviously some feelings there.

Aureo: Yeah, I can see that. We all know, probably, a couple in our lives that basically had been childhood friends and it just grows into something more. They became a pair. It’s not like that is not possible.

Haley: It’s kind of like Ron and Hermione. That’s what they did.

Aureo: Yeah. Basically.

Alison: Yeah.

Aureo: But it’s just incidents that happened around Snape and Lily that basically forced him to grow apart.

Kristen: Yeah. And show, again, all about choices. What choices Snape made in his life just led him [down] a different path anyways. So it was never meant to be.

Aureo: Didn’t James pretty much obsess as much about Lily as Snape did? First year he was like, “Okay, I’m going to have this as a girlfriend,” and tried for six years, basically.

Alison: I don’t know if he was that bad, quite honestly. And I think, at least for me, the idea of Snape being obsessed with Lily comes from later in his life too.

Haley: I do too; I honestly think when they were younger they had genuine love for each other. I feel like people disregard that all the time and I’m like, no, he actually did love her when she was alive and they were friends.

Alison: Yeah.

Kristen: And I think, to me, the way I saw it, [he] maybe had those more romantic feelings for her. And I know you said Lily could have grown to have romantic feelings, but I never really saw that from Lily’s side. I always saw Hermione/Harry love…

Haley: Wait, you keep talking. I’ve got a quote I’ve got to find. Sorry.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Haley: I’ve got a quote I’ve got to find from “[The] Prince’s Tale.” It’s something… I forget what it is. It’s when Snape gets really close to her [and] she starts blushing. There’s a quote where she says that.

Kristen: Where she blushes? So, friends can blush over stuff. It doesn’t mean that she has romantic feelings for him.

Haley: I mean, I’m just saying… she’s like fifteen. Come on.

Aureo: He compliments her and then she’s blushing, I think.

Haley: Yeah. There’s something like that in “The Prince’s Tale.”

Alison: No, isn’t it when he says something and she just gets mad?

Haley: No, there’s… I forget where the line is.

Alison: No, no, no. He says he’s not as bad as [James] Potter, right? And then Lily blushes because he mentions James liking her.

Kristen: Yeah, something like that.

Alison: I’m 95 percent sure that’s it.

Haley: “The Prince’s Tale” is so long, and I don’t have my book.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: Still, you don’t have to always have romantic feelings. But if your friend compliments you, sometimes people blush anyways. But I’ve never seen Lily having any kind of romantic feeling for him. I think she probably could have loved him, but there’s all different forms of love. I don’t think it was romantic on her side at all, but I think she definitely cared about him.

Haley: I think that I just need more Marauders stuff. [laughs] The thing is, whenever I discuss the Marauders, it’s like…

Kristen: I’d love more Marauders stuff.

Haley: … eighty percent is speculation because there’s just not enough. And I just want all of my Marauders books, please. Thank you, Jo; I appreciate it.

Aureo: I really want to see how James and Lily actually came to happen.

Haley and Kristen: Yeah.

Aureo: Because it’s not that I can’t believe it; I can. It just seems like a 180 [degree] turn, so please tell me what happened.

Alison: I think they could have been similar to Ron and Hermione, right? Like a similar situation where they fall in love.

Haley: Except Ron didn’t bully her best friend for no actual reason.

Aureo: Plus Ron and Hermione spent a lot more time together.

Alison: Let’s be honest, Snape was a jerk. But what I’m saying is… I was getting to the point of maybe, had they lived, they would have needed wizard marriage counseling. [laughs]

Haley: Oh, I’m sure.

Alison: But because they died so young and they’d been married at that point for, what? Three years, maybe?

Haley: So they had Harry when they were 20. They got out of Hogwarts when they were 17 or 18. Lily’s older than James by a few months.

Aureo: Yeah, by two [months] or something.

Haley: Yeah, so they’re like 17, 18 when they graduate. Geez, do we know when they got married? I feel like that was in that information about…

Haley: It seems so young, though. The thing is, I’m 20. That’s disgusting; I can’t have a baby now, like… That’s insane how young they are when you think about it.

Alison: Oh, see, I know several people…

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Haley: I can’t imagine Lily then dying… That’s like me dying next year. That’s insane.

Alison: Yes. I thought the other day… I was like, holy crap, I’m older now than Lily and James are when they died.

Aureo: Although there’s a lot of couples in Harry Potter that have that. Molly and Arthur are school sweethearts, get out of school…

Kristen: But that was common in that time period. Because my parents were married in the 1980s, and also it’s a lot more…

Alison: Also it’s a war.

Aureo: Doesn’t Molly say the same thing? “It’s a war.” It’s a war when James and Lily are marrying. There’s a war outside.

Haley: And the same thing with Bill and Fleur.

Alison and Kristen: Yeah.

Alison: Or it’s kind of like… I’ve always been in the opinion too, if you know who you want to marry, why put off marrying them? You might as well. [laughs]

Aureo: Plus, both their parents must have died around that time too.

Alison: Yeah. Oh! That’s sad.

Aureo: Because Harry doesn’t have any other family, so both their parents die, obviously.

Alison: Yeah.

Aureo: So maybe they just needed to comfort each other.

Alison: Dang!

Haley: That’s pretty crazy, but also…

Alison: The last few years of their lives were really tragic.

Haley: Just to fuel the fire for Snape and Lily, if you think about it, Snape and Lily were friends longer than James and Lily were even together.

Aureo: Yeah, that’s true.

Haley: Pretty crazy.

Alison: Eh.

Haley: I’m just saying, just putting out the facts.

Alison: Snape was a jerk.

Aureo: [unintelligible] Alison is not in her car right now because she would have made another accident.

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Alison: Yes. I almost crashed.

Haley: I do want to put on, just to say I do love James and Lily a lot together and I’m glad they’re together.

Aureo: Oh yeah, me too. Definitely.

Haley: I just get mad when people disregard that they were friends and had feelings when they were young. It just makes me mad. [laughs] Okay.

Alison: Yeah, that’s kind of my final line on it. Maybe as children there was a possibility, but once Snape revealed his true colors and what he really valued? No. Never, never, never, never, never, never. Never.

Aureo: I have a question, a very weird one.

Haley: What? We’ll answer it.

Aureo: If Snape and Lily had a child first, what would they name the child? And what House would that child get Sorted into?

Haley: I think it would be Gryff… Hmm… here’s a thing…

Alison: Ravenclaw.

Haley: Oh, that’s a good one. That’s a good answer.

Alison: [laughs] Nice middle ground.

Haley: I feel like we don’t know Lily at all; we really don’t. Lily is like… whenever we talk about her… the memories people have of her are like projections of how they want her to be. So I feel like we honestly don’t know Lily Evans at all.

Alison: That’s true.

Haley: I feel like you’re seeing her through James’s point of view; you’re seeing her from Snape’s point of view. You hear people talk about her, but you never actually get to see Lily.

Aureo: Yeah, Remus and Sirius are probably not going to be like, “Well, we didn’t like Lily actually.”

Haley: I feel like that could happen with Sirius. I feel like Sirius could be like, “Why is this girl here? James, we’re best friends. We’re breaking up the team. What is this?”

[Alison laughs]

Aureo: So, name and Hogwarts House? [laughs]

Alison: I’m going to say Ravenclaw. Name would be something ridiculously obnoxious like Severus’s.

Haley: It’d be Severus, Jr.

Alison: Ugh, I don’t like thinking about that. Move on, move on, move on… [laughs]

Aureo: So that would be the Neville and Luna ship, right?

Haley: Yep.

Alison: Yes.

Aureo: Which is not technically canon, but because it kind of happened in the movies, we are having it here in the canon debate.

Alison: It’s hinted at.

Aureo: I personally don’t like it. What are your thoughts? [laughs]

Haley: I legit, no joke, [think] a lot of people really like this ship. I hate it with every core of my being. I remember watching Deathly Hallows in theaters and being like, “What is going on? This is not in the book! What is happening? Neville’s with Hannah. Luna’s with the Scamander kid.” And the thing is too, I just wish that they kind of had Luna maybe in the epilogue with… what’s his name again? Scamander, what’s his first name?

Alison: Uh, uh, uh… Oh, shoot.

Haley: Rolf. Because it would have been such a fun tie to Fantastic Beasts. What a great tie that would have been.

Alison: But we didn’t know we were getting Fantastic Beasts at that point.

Haley: Yeah, I know. It’s still a thing though.

Kristen: We didn’t know at the time when this all was coming out.

Haley: J.K. Rowling says that she knew all along. [laughs]

Kristen: But she doesn’t tell us her stuff. We know that.

Aureo: It also feels kind of forced, the whole thing.

Alison: It does.

Aureo: They’re both the outsiders really loving the D.A. and everything, so let’s put them together. But they don’t have anything in common.

Kristen: Well, they’re like the weird outsider – in the group but not completely in the group. So I think they could have met up and had that in common or, “Oh, we both like different things that nobody else likes.”

Aureo: But Neville would be too shy to talk anything and Luna would just be like, “Oh, wrackspurts.” And he would be like, “What is happening?”

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Kristen: I don’t really pair them either; I don’t care about them. I like them separately, but I never was into them as together. But I could see how it could form and how it didn’t last. [laughs]

Alison: I like Matt Lewis’s explanation of why they had that scene in the movie. He called it a summer fling, and I like that. I think it might make sense because all their friends are pairing up around them. Like you said, they’re kind of the odd ones out. I just think they probably – maybe in the aftermath of the whole battle and everything they had been through – they had a couple months where they just had some fun and were trying to figure out how, because neither of them had been in a relationship before that we know of. So maybe they were just trying to figure out what that was like, and they had some fun and they had a really sweet friendship for each other for the rest of their lives. They never really fell in love, but they had some fun times and they cared about each other and that was that. I like that.

Haley: I always feel like Neville is kind of weirded out by Luna in the books. I don’t think he’s very comfortable around her.

Aureo: Yeah. That’s exactly my point.

Alison: I think by the end of Deathly Hallows they probably spent enough time together. Because doesn’t she send him a message?

Aureo: Oh yeah. Plus they are in Hogwarts fighting against the Carrows, so we don’t know what actually was happening.

Haley: I think we need more Hufflepuff representation with Hannah.

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Aureo: Yes.

Alison: Well, we do and we get that eventually, but I don’t know. I just think it’s nice. I think it’s a sweet little not-lasting [relationship].

Haley: I know. I just had such a visceral reaction when I saw it in theaters the first time.

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Haley: Oh gosh.

Alison: Should we move on to another one that often splits people?

Haley: I say yes.

Aureo: Yes.

Alison: Harry and Cho. [laughs]

Aureo: I think Haley and I agree on this one.

Haley: Yeah. I think Cho is such a realistic first crush for Harry, where he’s obsessed with her for three years. They finally kiss and he’s like, “Wait a minute, I don’t like this. This is not fun; this is weird.” The thing is, I don’t blame Cho. Her boyfriend just died; of course she’s a mess. But I think that she was… I think Harry Potter has the only really good… A lot of books, whoever they meet they end up with. Harry has a crush on Cho for a while, they kind of fight, and then they don’t really talk to each other ever again. And that’s kind of what life is like. That’s how crushes work. You just kind of fade away. “Goodbye. No more. I don’t want to talk to you anymore.” [laughs]

Aureo: Yeah, exactly. And it’s definitely like how Hermione says it in the books. Harry needed to have someone else to realize that he actually liked Ginny, as well as Ginny needing some other people in order for Harry to realize, “okay, this is not just some weird fangirl.”

Kristen: Yeah. Him getting jealous over the other people she was [with], he’s realizing, “Wait, why am I getting jealous? Oh wait, she’s got nice skin. I like that.”

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: I’m not going to lie. [unintelligible] It’s so weird!

Kristen: I know; it’s one of my favorite: [as Harry] “She’s got nice skin.”

Alison: [as Ron] “Hermione’s got nice skin.”

Kristen: [as Harry] “As skin goes.”

Alison: And I love how they’re both just like, “I’m going to sleep now. Good night.”

Kristen: And dream about the nice skin. [laughs]

Alison: Yeah. I do agree, though. I like [that] Cho is Harry’s first crush and his first kiss. And I think by the end of everything they came to peace with each other, and that’s fine.

Aureo: Do we know who Cho ends up with?

Haley: A Muggle.

Aureo: Oh.

Alison: It’s a Muggle. Which I think is interesting and actually kind of [works]. Good for Cho.

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: I mean, we hate on Cho a lot because it’s kind of easy to, but Cho is pretty cool if you think about it. She’s a Seeker; she’s a Ravenclaw; she’s really pretty; she dated Cedric Diggory. What a catch.

Kristen: And Harry Potter. She’s had it all.

Haley: Yeah. She’s like, “I got all the good wizards; I’ll go get a Muggle now.”

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: She was cool to try the DA. She just made the mistake of dragging her friend into it…

Haley: Her stupid friend, yeah.

Aureo: … [who] obviously did not want to go there from the start. And she was just like, “Yeah, you’re coming with us.”

Alison: Yeah, and I think…

Kristen: She wanted more of a challenge. That’s why she went for the Muggle.

Haley: “I already got Harry Potter. Check.”

[Aureo laughs]

Alison: “Seriously, though, I’m good. I did the Hogwarts dating thing.”

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Oh, this is really sad. Maybe she’s like, “The guys die too much in the wizarding world. I’m going to get me a Muggle guy.”

Aureo: Yeah.

Haley: I mean, it’s kind of sad but realistic.

Kristen: That’s super morbid.

Aureo: Maybe it’s like, “I dated two celebrities. I’m just going to lay low because them being in the tournament, I was kind of made a celebrity.”

Haley: [gasps] I never thought about that. That’s probably might be why though. Because she had to deal with Cedric, she had to deal with Harry, and the wizarding world is just really tragic for her. So she’s like, “I’m going to go watch the Muggles. See you later.”

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: Yeah. I also think at the point that Harry and Cho come together, Harry is not mature enough to be in a relationship. [laughs]

Aureo: Yeah. Exactly.

Alison: He doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Haley: Also, Cho is older than him too.

Alison and Aureo: Yeah.

Aureo: She’s like one or two years older.

Kristen: She’s a year older… I think a year, yeah.

Alison: Yeah, she’s a year older.

Aureo: Hermione is already a year older than Harry, and Harry is one of the youngest in his year. And Cho might be even two years older…

Alison: Do we know when her birthday is? I’m going to look it up.

Haley: She might be two years [older]. The thing is though, in teen years, it matters so much more when you’re a teenager.

Alison: Oh, it totally does.

Haley: You’re so much more mature between the ages of 14 and… He’s 14 and she could theoretically be 16.

Aureo: That’s a huge gap.

Kristen: Yeah, for that age. Now it’s like… [laughs]

Haley: For that age, yeah, it’s nothing. Yeah.

Aureo: Yeah, they don’t know, apparently.

Alison: We don’t…

Aureo: She could be one year or two years [older]. That’s what it says on the wiki. [laughs]

Haley: Oh, okay.

Alison: Yeah, we don’t have her birthday on Pottermore. We don’t have much of anything from her on Pottermore.

Aureo: Yeah, Pottermore… Don’t get me started. [laughs]

Kristen: She’s just Cho Chang.

Haley: #Justice_for_Cho_Chang.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Gosh, I love A Very Potter Musical‘s Cho Chang.

Alison: I got that reference.

Kristen: Me and my brother say it all the time. We’re just like, [in Southern accent] “Oh, I’m Cho Chang, y’all.” And he’s never even seen it, but he says it and it’s so funny.

Alison: That’s funny.

Kristen: Awkward silence. We’ll just say that.

[Alison, Haley, and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: So let’s move to the last canon pairing.

Haley: So while we still have to see what happens with Fantastic Beasts for these two, there’s already so many pairings and ships in fanfictions about Dumbledore and Grindelwald already because it is in Deathly Hallows. After you hear J.K. Rowling say that Dumbledore is gay, you go back and read it [and] you’re like, “I got it; I see it; I’m here.” You know what I mean? It’s kind of a “read between the lines” thing, but it is there.

Aureo; Yeah. I mean, I got it from just reading it.

[Aureo and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: You can make that. You don’t need Jo to confirm it.

Kristen: No. [laughs]

Haley: But how do you guys feel? I mean, I guess predicting how you think he is…

Aureo: I’m still amazed that people are still fighting it, in a way. We talk to people and they’re like, “No, Dumbledore is not gay,” and you’re like, “Whoa.”

Kristen: Have you read the books?

Aureo: “Why do you have such strong emotions about this?” [laughs] Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, obviously it was pretty much a summer fling as well and not much of a relationship, really. It’s probably more him crushing on Grindelwald.

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: Do you guys think that Grindelwald is just…? I mean, we’re going to see later, but do you think he’s just using him?

Aureo: Yes.

Haley: Or do you think he has feelings too? I think it could be both. I think it’s both.

Aureo: No, I don’t think so.

Kristen: I think it’s more so he’s using him. He may have a twinge of a feeling, but I don’t think he really has super true heartfelt feelings. I think he’s more…

Haley: No, no. I think he admires him, because Dumbledore is so intelligent. You know what I mean?

Aureo: Yes. It would be more like him being a powerful wizard. That would probably be more important to Grindelwald.

Kristen: Yeah. But then I can see Dumbledore definitely having real feelings for him.

Alison: I think he’s using him, but I think he might admire him. Maybe not romantically, but Grindelwald admires Dumbledore as a powerful wizard, as someone who could be a partner in ruling with him. Grindelwald sees Dumbledore as the only person who’s equal to him, right? So it’s not romantic. It’s romantic on Dumbledore’s side, but…

Haley: I feel like Dumbledore would be a trophy for Grindelwald. He would be like, “Look who I have. Dumbledore is on my side. We’re ‘not together’ but we’re partners.”

Alison: Whereas Dumbldore is…

Haley: “He likes me. I’m okay about him.”

Kristen: Yeah. I could see that.

Aureo: Don’t you think Grindelwald would have went into a relationship just to keep Dumbledore happy and to have Dumbledore?

Haley: Yes! That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I think. That’s what I’m trying to get at.

Alison: Oh, it would’ve been totally manipulative, yeah. Grindelwald sees the future as “Dumbledore and I work together because he’s powerful, and I am powerful and we’re the only equals. We worked together for this new world order.” But Dumbledore is more of like, “We worked together to fix the ills in society, and we’re together together in everything.”

Haley: And he’s pretty cute.

[Aureo and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Well, yeah, but “we’re together” as “we work together and also we’re in a relationship together.” And that is his ideal future. As we were like, “You only need one hand to take on the world as long as the other hand is holding his.” And that’s where I see Dumbledore seeing things as, but Grindelwald obviously is not. And that causes issues.

Haley: Do you think…? Okay, venturing into Fantastic Beasts territory, do you think that Grindelwald is gay or bisexual? Because I feel like there’s obviously something. He’s manipulating Credence the same way that he is with Dumbledore.

Aureo: But isn’t Credence more like a father/son manipulation? Or is that just…?

Kristen: I thought it was more than father/son.

Haley: Yeah. I thought it was more, definitely. I remember watching the first time and being like, “Ooh, what’s going to happen here?” I was 100 percent thinking something was about to happen, and nothing did.

Kristen: Yeah. Agreed. It could be father/son, but I thought it was something a bit more.

Alison: Yeah, I don’t think that one is. I think it’s just Grindelwald and Credence is more of… Credence is looking for any kind of affection, and Grindelwald sees that and is able to manipulate him for that. A strange suggestion, maybe. What do you think of Grindelwald being asexual?

Haley: I could see that and just knowing how to use anyone and not caring. I could see that, yes.

Alison: Yeah.

Aureo: In my mind Grindelwald is the more clever and intelligent villain compared to Voldemort. Voldemort is more emotional a lot of times, and Grindelwald seems to be more, “Hey, I’m going undercover; I’m sneaking in; I’m actually really doing stuff.” Whereas Voldemort is like, “Oh, I’m going to try to kill Harry and fail.”

[Alison, Haley, and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: I mean, come on.

Haley: I agree.

Alison: Yeah, I just… Because I think whether it’s… I don’t know. Maybe not even asexual, but maybe he’s just decided… He wasn’t born that way, but he’s just decided that he’s going to deny…

Haley: His feelings.

Alison: … any kind of relationship. Or any kind of romantic relationship. He’s decided that’s not worth his time, and he’s just going to put that aside so he doesn’t even have that anywhere near him. But he figures out how people relate like that, so he can manipulate other people.

Haley: Yeah. He knows how to use his sexuality to his advantage.

Kristen: Yeah, I could see that.

Alison: Those are my two thoughts on Grindelwald and relationships.

Kristen: No, it’s perfectly understandable. I agree. I like it. I like those thoughts.

Haley: But also just to tie it around that, that is the only canon gay relationship in the books.

Aureo: And it’s not a proper relationship.

Haley: It’s not even a real relationship.

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Kristen: No.

Haley: Let’s hope Fantastic Beasts

Kristen: Gives us some answers.

Haley: … gives us some more representation.

Kristen: Yeah. Actually get something.

Alison: Give some answers to what’s going on here. [laughs]

Kristen: We’re all curious.

Haley: Next year.

Kristen: So we’re going to go ahead and dive on in to the fanfiction ships. And for me, since we’re already talking about amazing ships, I would like to talk about Sirius and BarkBox, because I think that would be the best ship ever.

[Haley laughs]

Kristen: Each month, especially when he was a dog all those years – or all those months – each month he would be able to get a box with amazing toys and all-natural treats, which are made in the US and Canada. Each box also comes with a pretty sweet theme. So with Sirius being lonely all the time, I think he would like to have this themed box to keep him entertained.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: Since I know Sirius would love it, I decided to also utilize that free continental US shipping and order a box for my dog, Sherlock, and man, did he love it. I didn’t even have to open the box, and his head was already in there trying to get to all the toys and treats. He literally tried to rip open the treats. It was so, so cute. I was trying to write up the doc for the episode, and he kept putting the toys into my lap, so I would throw them to him. He just loved to play with all the toys. And then, if your dog doesn’t even like any of the toys or treats, this company BarkBox will replace any items that they don’t like and ship new ones to you. Scouts honor.

Aureo: Wow.

Kristen: So if you would like to show your dog some love, then you should head over to BarkBox and get a free extra month of BarkBox. Visit when you subscribe to a six or 12-month plan. Honestly, it’ll be the best decision you make for you and your beloved pup, because it will keep them entertained for hours. Literally the other night, Sherlock was playing with all three of his toys – it was probably a good two and a half hours – and I was able to get some work done, and it was a-mazing.

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Kristen: So I highly recommend this, and I got the cool university theme. So I got beer pong, which I never knew they had beer pong for dogs, but it was toys. It was just a toy, but it was really cute. And then he got a beer can and the string for a six-pack was actually like a tug-of-war toy. So it was hilarious-looking.

Haley: Oh, that’s cute.

Kristen: And then he got a little backpack, and he loved that little backpack, and it was so cute because he’s prancing around and has the little backpack in his mouth and is just playing hardcore with it.

Alison: Aw.

Kristen: And then all the treats, obviously, he loved. As I said, he already tried to open [them] up. So, amazing, amazing. Go over [and] get that free extra month when you subscribe to the six or 12-month plan. Again, You won’t regret it. It’ll make your pup super happy, and you’ll be super happy that your dog is occupied for a little while, especially if you have an attention-loving dog like myself. So head on over there and get your free extra month.

Alison: Let’s jump into some other interesting pairings.

Kristen: The fanfics that are actually in the book.

Alison: [laughs] Yeah, let’s start with the most common one that’s not canon but that gets a lot of argument: Harry and Hermione.

Aureo: Harmony!

Alison: Yes, the Harmony ship.

[Aureo laughs]

Kristen: For so long that was me. That was me. Especially when early on reading this series, I was like, “Oh! Harry and Hermione, Harry and Hermione!” Really, honestly, up until Book 7 I really thought it was going to be Harry and Hermione. Even though I noticed the stuff in Book 6, I was like, “Eh, I’m still not completely sold on each of their stories.”

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Kristen: And then [by] Book 7 I was like, “All right, I’m definitely sold.” And I was like, “Oh now I love Ron and Hermione.” And as I reread it, I love now to catch more of the Ron and Hermione stuff. And now I can totally see Harry and Hermione, just the friendship side of it. But early on, it did take me definitely a while because I was sold that it was going to be these two.

Alison: I was too. [laughs] In the first three books or so, I remember specifically having an argument with my [older] sister about this. Because my sister was like, “Ron and Hermione are going to date.” And I was like, “No, Harry and Hermione are going to date.” And we had this whole argument about it because somehow I missed all of the little things in the first three books that should indicate that.

Aureo: I think that most of the arguments for Harmony are coming from young readers that don’t necessarily see the difference between love and friendship. And that’s probably why your sister, when she was older, she already caught on to those differences.

Alison: Yeah, and I think that was part of it. I think I was blinded by the stereotype of “main boy and main girl fall in love and get married.” And I was like, “There’s literally no basis for me to be thinking that right now, that they love each other romantically.” [laughs] But I finally caught on.

Haley: For me, I actually read the books, so I’m the young one here. I read the books after they were all out already, so I think I already knew that Hermione and Ron ended up together when I read them.

Aureo: Weird.

Haley: So when I was reading them I was like, “Yeah. Duh. Ron and Hermione for life. All day long.”

Kristen: Okay, okay. [laughs]

Haley: And I love them. And also the thing is too, in books you don’t get to see relationships like Harry and Hermione’s very often – just a guy and a girl and they’re friends. And they do love each other a lot and they care a lot about each other, but that’s as far as it’s going to go. And by the way, when you’re talking about the scene in Deathly Hallows [Part 1], I love that scene so much when they’re dancing. I don’t see it as a relationship.

Alison: I have come to love it.

Kristen: I love it too.

Haley: I see that as a friendship. I remember when I watched that movie for the first time, it looked like they were going to kiss, and I almost lost my mind if they were going to do that.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: No, but you can totally [tell]; that’s what I said. Once that seventh book [came], I totally saw the friendship side. And then seeing the movie, I totally see… and I love that scene. I love that scene because it’s two friends who are hurting so badly just trying to do something a little bit fun. And they try, but it doesn’t even work out.

Haley: Harry is being silly.

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: Harry twirls into Hermione, and it’s just the best. I love it.

Kristen: Oh, I love it. I love that scene so much too.

Alison: Yeah. The first time I saw that scene, I was like, “This is the worst thing that has ever happened ever.” But I’ve come to really like it because, like you said, it’s two friends in pain trying to cheer each other up. They’re in this horrible situation and this is all they can do, and so this is what they do.

Aureo: It’s also two friends who at that point know that Hermione loves Ron.

Haley: Harry knows that. Harry knows.

Aureo: He knows.

Alison: Yeah.

Haley: I think he probably knows before they do.

Aureo: Yeah, definitely.

Alison: Harry does realize, right? I mean, in Half-Blood Prince he has that whole thought process in Herbology where he’s like, “What if they get together and I’m the third wheel?”

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: Yeah, exactly.

Alison: And then in Deathly Hallows he has that moment in Grimmauld Place where he wakes up before them and he notices that their hands are close to each other, like they were holding hands.

Haley: Such a beautiful moment.

Kristen: So beautiful.

Alison: And it’s just like…

Kristen: My heart! Yeah.

Alison: … I’m crying. But also, it’s okay, Harry!

Haley: Man, I love that scene in the movie, too, where Hermione’s teaching him how to play piano.

Kristen: Yes, it’s so cute.

Alison: Yeah, and he’s horrible.

Kristen: And then I do love it when they fall asleep and their hands are so close. Sorry. But that’s not Harry and Hermione.

Haley: Yeah, back to Harry and Hermione.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Yeah. The reason I brought that up is that Harry sees that Ron and Hermione like each other.

Kristen: Yes. It just took me a while to realize it.

Haley: Harry has enough girl problems without Hermione. Harry has enough girl problems.

Kristen: Yeah.

Alison: For reals though.

Kristen: That’s why she brings him levelheaded. Now as I reread it, I’m like, “Oh man, she’s there to help him out and discover all this stuff. That’s why.” She’s there just to help and facilitate and be that great friend, loving friendship that we all have, and it’s just great.

Haley: Also in the books, I feel like the joke is that the wizarding world thinks that Harry and Hermione are together. You can get in the paper all the time, [and] Rita Skeeter will write it.

Aureo: Yeah, even Dumbledore.

Haley: And Cho is like, “What do you mean Hermione? Why is Hermione inviting you places?” She’s jealous of Hermione, and then they’re just like, “What? We just chillin’.”

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: Yeah, and they bring that together…

Aureo: And even Dumbledore asks that in the sixth book. He’s like, “So I’ve seen you hanging out with Ms. Granger.” And [Harry’s] like, “Oh no, no, no. We’re just friends.”

Kristen: But see, that’s where it got me still thinking in the sixth book: “Oh, well, I guess Hermione and Ron won’t work out, so this is where Harry and Hermione are going to get close.” And I thought that same scene where Dumbledore asks Harry, it’s like, “Oh no, no, no. We’re just friends. (I’m just saying that, but yeah, I secretly like her.)” Or at least, that’s what I was hoping for.

[Alison, Aureo, and Haley laugh]

Kristen: I still believed it all in that book, but Book 7 set me straight. [laughs] Early on in that book, I realized it.

Haley: I like what Aureo said earlier. This is a very popular ship. I feel like a lot of people, the older they get, they start to realize the dynamics of their friendship more. When you have a relationship you learn that, “Oh, I can just be friends with guys. What? Okay.”

Kristen: Yeah, because I was the same age as them when the books came out. So I was like, “Oh, I’m 16.”

Haley: When I was younger, I didn’t have as many guy friends as I do when I’m older. I don’t know. I feel like when I was older, I got more guy friends than when I was 11 or 12 when I was reading the books.

Kristen: See, I have four brothers, so it was just all guys all the time.

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: See, I was only friends with guys when I was younger, so complete opposite. [laughs]

Haley: Look at us. We’re so diverse.

Kristen: Yeah, everybody’s different. Which brings us into this very different one.

[Haley and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Oh geez. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Haley: I actually have a lot of feelings on this. So I saw this on Tumblr, and I think it’s the realest thing. We’re talking about Draco and Hermione.

Kristen: Yeah, we didn’t even say it yet.

Aureo: We’re always starting without saying the names. People have to [know].

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: So we’re talking about Draco and Hermione. Okay, yes. So I saw this post on Tumblr, which I think is too real about this: Romione – Ron and Hermione – is the better pairing, but Draco and Hermione have better fanfictions.

[Kristen laughs]

Aureo: Oh, that’s true.

Kristen: Probably.

Haley: Because honestly, when you’re pairing them together, it’s the bad guy archetype. That’s what their thing is.

Aureo: Yeah. I also think that, aside from Jo, apparently no one can write Ron. People often struggle to write Ron.

Haley: Oh yeah! Oh my gosh! I get so pissed when people make Ron to be this jerk.

Aureo: Yeah, the stupid tagalong. It’s like, “He’s here, but we don’t need him.”

[Kristen laughs]

Haley: Yeah, I don’t like that.

Alison: Yeah, because Ron is a great character.

Haley: He’s amazing.

Aureo: Yeah, but apparently only Jo can write him properly.

Haley: Yeah.

Alison: [laughs] I remember when I got more on the Internet and started seeing stuff like this, and I was like, “There is legitimately no basis for this ship.” And it weirds me out.

Haley: The thing is… I forget where she said this, but there was something that Jo said that Draco does have a crush on her because he makes fun of her.

Alison: Ah, no.

[Kristen laughs]

Haley: I remember seeing that somewhere. I don’t know where it was.

Alison: That does not sound like her at all. [laughs]

Haley: No, not that it was ever a thing in the books ever. No, no, no. But the thing is also – bringing it back [to] A Very Potter Musical – 100 percent [of] that play was based on the fact that Nick [Lang], who wrote it, was like, “Draco teases Hermione so much, he probably has a crush on her.” And so A Very Potter Musical was born.

Aureo: But that’s the same for Draco and Harry.

Kristen: But I can see it for Draco and Hermione because [Draco’s] dad is so against it, like, “Eww, a Muggle.”

Haley: Yeah, no, that’s what it is.

Kristen: Yeah, [his] dad is so against that, and since he’s so against it, [as Draco] “I could see myself becoming attracted to her because Dad just talks about the Muggles and that stupid Hermione Granger.” And then you’ve got Hermione Granger in the mind, and then you’re like, [as Draco] “Well, she looked very pretty at the Yule Ball. Hmm. Maybe that’s…” [laughs]

Aureo: But isn’t it the same with Harry?

Kristen: Yeah. I still think it’s super weird and I don’t agree with it at all, but I could see it in that point of view of disobeying [his] dad and mom.

Aureo: I think it would not work out.

Alison: I still can’t.

Aureo: Those two are definitely the complete opposites.

Haley: Oh no, I don’t think they would ever work out.

Kristen: No, me neither.

Haley: But I could see the logic that Draco would like Hermione.

Kristen: Yes. Yeah, same.

Haley: I could see that logic.

Aureo: I think it probably comes more from Emma Watson being like, “I had a crush on Tom Felton.”

Haley: Oh yeah. But let’s be real, everyone does. So you’re not special, Emma Watson.

[Aureo and Haley laugh]

Kristen: But you are.

Haley: We all do. We all like Tom Felton.

Aureo: I did not have a crush on anyone aside from Helena Bonham Carter, and that’s that. [laughs]

Haley: She’s the best.

Alison: I don’t know. I just can’t see it.

Haley: The thing is with Draco, fanfiction explodes around Draco. Tom Felton is a big reason for that, I think.

Kristen: And we don’t get much of a love story at all in the book for him, so I think people want to try and…

Haley: Give him something?

Kristen: Give him one, yeah. Talk about Draco and Harry as well.

Haley: We’ll move on to that.

Kristen: Yeah, because it seems the same thing – the opposites attracting, the dad not wanting… I agree with you; [it’s] the same thing: “My dad’s so against it, maybe I could go for it.” Just kids being kids.

Aureo: Can you just see Harry coming home to Sirius and being like, “So this is my boyfriend,” and Sirius being like, “What?” [laughs]

Haley: No.

Kristen: I guess.

Alison: I just got to say on the thing of “Lucius wouldn’t like it, so Draco would do it,” I don’t think Draco is that kind of guy, especially when he’s younger. Maybe around the time of Half-Blood or Deathly Hallows, he starts thinking like that. But I think up until that point he was perfectly happy to toe the family line.

Aureo: Yeah, and he tried to be like his father.

Haley: Yeah.

Alison: Yeah. I think Draco wanted to be like Lucius for a very long time until about near the end of Half-Blood, when he started freaking out about what it actually meant to be a Death Eater and he started questioning things. And even then, I don’t think his full transformation happens until after the books because, yes, we get that he’s going against what Lucius might like when he marries Astoria, but that’s far in the future.

Haley: Yeah. Going back to Draco and Harry, the basis for this ship is Half-Blood Prince because literally, that’s all Harry talks about the entire book: “Where is Draco? Where’s Draco on the map? I see Draco. I think Draco’s doing something.” I’m saying that that’s where that comes from.

Aureo: [as Harry] “Draco looks so pale. Draco’s not playing Quidditch.”

Haley: [as Harry] “He looks so pale. Have you guys noticed Draco?”

Alison: It’s not about Draco himself, though.

Haley: No, I’m just saying that’s where it came from.

Kristen: But it could turn into an obsession. Yeah.

Haley: That’s what it’s coming from, I’m saying. That’s where that ship came from.

Alison: No, no, no. I’m saying Harry is not obsessed with Draco as a person; Harry is obsessed with the danger Draco can pose.

Kristen: But even though he’s following that obsession, it still can be turned into an obsession over that person. Over time it could be.

Haley: It’s like the thing where love and hate are very similar. They toe a line.

Aureo: Yeah. There are pairings in fanfiction with Harry and Voldemort, which is even weirder.

Alison and Kristen: What?

Aureo: Yes. There’s a lot of them.

Haley: Fun fact: if there are two characters, it’s been done in Harry Potter [fanfiction]. Bottom line. I don’t care who you say, it’s been done; anyone has been done. There are no limits to Harry Potter fandom. God bless them.

Aureo: And there’s really a ton of Voldemort/Harry fics. Usually it’s been that Harry’s turned evil and he’s joining Voldemort, and they’re fighting against Dumbledore together. That’s the basic story line.

Haley: The bottom line, the rule is, if you can think of it, it’s been done. [laughs]

Alison: Fanfiction is a strange, strange place sometimes.

Aureo: [laughs] Alison, I’m going to hunt some links for you. I’m sending you stuff.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Oh no. Oh no.

Haley: Well, bottom line also, we stayed book canon before and now that we’re on fanfiction territory, the books [and] the rules don’t apply. It doesn’t matter. If you’re saying, “Well, that’s technically not what they’re saying in the book,” who cares? It’s fanfiction. It has nothing to do with it. It doesn’t matter at all.

Alison: Yeah, I’m going to say that’s where I draw the distinction between… This is totally off topic, but that’s where I draw the distinction between good and bad fanfiction. Good fanfiction really pays attention to who the characters actually are and what they might actually do in a different situation.

Aureo: I’m going to fight you on this because it depends if you go alternate universe or not.

Alison: Well, yes.

Aureo: A lot of fanfiction will be like, “We’re taking the first two books and we’re going completely off different directions.” If you want to do that, that’s cool. You can still be a good writer. You can still write good fanfiction. If you stayed true to the whole story, you’re going to be writing the same thing all over again.

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: Oh, I get really annoyed when I see something [like that]. It’ll be a fanfiction and they’ll just freaking copy paste scenes of the book. I don’t want to read Harry Potter right now. I want to read what you’re thinking about.

Kristen: Yeah, I want to read something different.

Alison: [as Haley] “I don’t want to read Harry Potter right now. I’m just reading fanfiction.”

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: Yeah, even myself as a writer of fanfiction, I struggle when I go back to stuff that I take from the books. I’m like, “I don’t want to put that in because I don’t want to type out stuff that’s been done much better than I could ever do it.”

Haley: People do that, and there’ll just be pages of the book, and I’m like, “I don’t need this.”

Aureo: I just paraphrase it and be like, “Okay, people, you will remember this because you’ve obviously read the books at some point. So I don’t have to go into this.” [laughs]

Kristen: Yeah.

Alison: Yeah. I don’t know.

Aureo: So Alison, you need to start read[ing] fanfiction. [laughs] Just a part of mine.

Haley: Alison, how much have you actually read before?

Alison: I’ll be honest, not a lot.

Haley: See, I can tell from how you talk about it. I can tell.

Alison: Yeah. Let’s be real. I mostly read… There’s this one writer that does “what-ifs,” and she has just a really great style, and I really like it.

Kristen: I like to read all the holiday ones, and it can be whoever. But I read a lot of the holiday ones because I like holidays, [and] I love Christmas so much. But I used to help with the MuggleNet fanfiction page, so I read a lot of different ones.

Aureo: Oh, that’s cool.

Kristen: [laughs] A ton of ones.

Alison: I guess I should say, too, I also prefer ones with original characters.

Aureo: See, I don’t like that.

Kristen: I like it when they take the characters and give them a whole different personality. I think it’s fun to see it that way too. I’ve done so much…

Alison: See, I don’t because then it’s not the character anymore.

Haley: I’m fine with that though because I’m not reading Harry Potter.

Kristen: Yeah, because it’s just fan[fiction]. I consider fanfiction offhanded. There’s no bad; there’s no good; it’s just fanfiction. It’s not Harry Potter.

Aureo: I guess there are good and bad fanfictions.

Haley: If you’re going to be bad at writing, there’s going to be bad writing styles. Yeah.

Aureo: Yeah, if people do at least three typos in each sentence, you’d be like, “Okay, please stop.”

Kristen: Oh, I am awful at grammar, so it doesn’t bug me. [laughs]

Aureo: [unintelligible] … and [English] is not even my first language, so yeah.

Alison: Not going to lie, I made it quite far through “My Immortal” though. [laughs]

Aureo: See, I haven’t read this one.

Haley: It’s so funny. Oh my gosh.

Alison: More out of curiosity than anything.

Haley: Me and my roommates read it out loud, and we were dying laughing the entire time. It’s so funny. Oh my gosh. Listeners, if you have not read “My Immortal” – kind of don’t, but also do – it’s an experience.

[Kristen laughs]

Aureo: Yeah, I haven’t read it. I haven’t, because that’s just too weird for me.

Haley: It’s so weird. It’s also hilarious, and there are so many typos.

Alison: It’s… yeah.

Aureo: If it’s hard to read for me [with] typos, grammar issues, and stuff like that…

Kristen: Yeah, I haven’t read it either, but maybe I should.

Alison: Yeah.

Haley: It’s just a piece of history for the fandom. It’s a lot.

Aureo: That’s true.

Haley: But going back to what we were talking about with Draco and Harry, I was going to segue off of that to go into our new little boys, Scorpius and Albus.

Aureo: Yay!

Haley: My children. My boys.

Alison: Oh, I love them.

Aureo: So listeners, as you all may know, we all four have seen the play. I’ve even seen it with Kristen together.

Haley: We’re so lucky.

Kristen: Yeah, we saw it together. [laughs]

Aureo: My second time.

Kristen: Yeah, my first time.

Haley: I’m seeing it two more times next year. [laughs]

Aureo: Awesome.

Kristen: Yeah, I got my tickets. I’m excited.

Aureo: So we have all seen the first original cast, right?

Kristen: Yes.

Haley: Yeah.

Aureo: Cool.

Haley: I saw the original cast. Except Anthony Boyle wasn’t at my show, and I’m still crying over it.

[Everybody gasps]

Kristen: What?

Alison: That’s a shame!

Haley: If he does not come to the New York show that… I have tickets October 27 for New York. If he is not there, I will lose my mind.

Kristen: Oh my gosh. He was the best.

Alison: He’s so good.

Kristen: I got my picture with him. I have never fangirled harder than that.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: And I hated his character in the book! Hated him. But I saw him in Los Angeles…

Alison: He makes that character.

Kristen: … and I was like, “Oh Mylanta, this is great. This is perfect. I am glad I saw this now.”

Aureo: Yes. That’s a perfect example of why you actually need to see the play.

Kristen: Yes, yes. So if anybody hasn’t, you really have to. Yeah, you have to. It’s way different.

Haley: And also it sucks because obviously not everyone can afford to see it or it’s not in their region…

Kristen: Try those giveaway scenes, people.

Alison: Or got completely screwed over by the New York ticket office.

Haley: Oh my gosh, that was horrible! Oh my gosh!

Kristen: That was really dumb.

Haley: I’d just like to shout out to Amy for giving me a ticket. Thank you so much; I love you.

Aureo: Are they doing the whole Friday Forty thing?

Kristen: They are.

Haley: They better.

Kristen: Yes. It said on the website. Nothing has been released yet about it, but they will.

Aureo: Okay, cool. Because that’s how I got my tickets the first time for London. I was just lucky.

Kristen: Yeah, I’m going to the preview. That’s the only way I could get tickets, but it still counts.

Haley: [laughs] Back to this – Cursed Child ticket sales make us mad; fun fact: it’s the worst. But back to Scorpius and Albus – our sons, the children – I love them. They’re so great.

Kristen: The boys.

Haley: What are your thoughts?

Aureo: I like them as friends.

Kristen: Yes. That’s the same [opinion] as mine. But when I read it, I felt differently.

Aureo: As much as I understand that people want more gay couples…

Haley: Representation.

Aureo: Yeah. I don’t see them as that. But then again, they’re 14. You don’t know what’s going to happen in the future.

Haley: See, that’s my thing. Those two still got time. There’s nothing set in stone with them yet. But the thing is, when I read the book – because I read it before I saw the show – when he said, “I’m going to go ask Rose,” I was like, “Excuse me, what?” [laughs] This is not what I thought this was building up to. I 100 percent thought they were going to be together.

Kristen: Yeah, I got two different feelings. Because I did the same thing; I read it then saw it. So in the book I definitely matched them together, but then when I saw it, I definitely did not.

Aureo: Okay, I’ve seen it first…

Alison: And I did the opposite. I was like, “Oh look, they’re BFFs and they’re so cute as BFFs.” And it’s great to see two male characters being able to be friends and vulnerable with each other in a friendship part that battles such toxic masculinity. I was all about that, and it didn’t even cross my mind that they could be a couple. And then when the book came out and everyone was like, “Oh my gosh, they’re totally a couple,” I was like, “Huh?”

Aureo: Yeah. Same experience.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: Yeah, you saw it first and you didn’t think they were a couple.

Alison: Yeah. And then reading the book, though, I think – and I’ve said this before when we were doing our Cursed Child episodes – I think some of it has to do with some of the way some of the stage directions are written. Some of the wording in there is not great.

Kristen: Yeah, because in the play I didn’t see it at all. They were just best friends in the play, and I’m happy with both. And it’s crazy to go from the book… and I really thought, reading the book first, I was like, “Oh my gosh, they’re a couple.” Then when I saw them in the play, I was like, “Oh, wow. I was totally off.” They’re just best friends helping each other out and, like you said, [they] can be vulnerable. And I love that I got both parts of it from reading and seeing the play.

Haley: The thing is, I think it kind of sucks, the fact that Harry Potter really is lacking in gay representation. You’re reading it and you’re like, “Here it is. It’s happening. I can’t believe it. Good job, Jo,” and all of it. And then you’re like, “Oh, never mind. Nothing’s happening.” I felt like that was a blow to a lot of people. They really felt like they were finally getting something.

Aureo: Yeah, but then again, they are 14. How many 14-year-olds say, “Yeah, I’m gay. I know I’m gay.” How many 14-year-olds?

Haley: No, a lot of 14-year-olds, actually. I know a lot of younger kids who are like that. The thing is, if you can have a straight relationship at that age, you can easily put [in] a gay relationship at that age. Fun fact: I work at Disney. Disney Channel just had its first gay coming-out, and the kid’s like 13 years old. And I was like, “Good job, Disney. A-plus.”

Alison: Yeah. I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately because I feel like that’s kind of a… I don’t want to say a “trend,” but it is kind of a trend in fandom in general that any male characters that get close, a lot of fandoms, a lot of fans will automatically be like, “They got close; they’re gay.” Which I think can be…

Aureo: I think the reason behind that… I’ve heard that from a lot of people that are like, “Hey, I’m gay. I want to read about gay characters, and there’s no gay characters. So I read fanfiction because there’s gay characters everywhere.”

Alison: That’s fine, and I totally get the representation thing. And I do think we need more representation, but I think it needs to be in… that’s not just all we’re going to make these characters about.

Haley: No, I 100 percent understand that we need guy [friendships]. The thing is, I think that Harry and Ron are a really good representation of that. They’re not super emotional, but Ron and Harry are closer than many guy friends. The thing is with with fandom and with seeing all these ships, no one really ships Ron and Harry. No one does. I don’t know anyone who does.

Alison: That’s true.

Haley: No one does. Because they’re like, “Nah, they’re bros. They know each other.”

Kristen: But I guess, are you trying to say, Alison, “Why can’t these guys just be vulnerable to themselves and be vulnerable to each other but not be gay at the same time?”

Alison: Yeah.

Kristen: “Why is that such a problem as well?”

Alison: Yeah, yeah.

Haley: No, I don’t think that’s a problem at all.

Alison: I just feel like that’s a thing that a lot of people automatically assume, and I think it’s feeding into… Hi, let’s get really feminist and [into] cultural and societal issues here.

[Kristen laughs]

Haley: Let’s do it!

Alison: Let’s get deep. It’s a huge problem in that we tell guys, “If you’re going to be male, if you’re going to especially be straight male, you have to be a certain way.” And even though we may say that’s not what it is, we still reinforce those things when we take these characters, like, for example, other ones that I think of… Let’s get into Stranger Things: Mike Wheeler and Will Byers.

Haley: I’d just like to say, it actually says in the script of Stranger Things that Will is questioning his sexuality, though, on the main page.

Alison: Well, yes, that makes sense.

Haley: The thing is, I do think that Will Byers might come out as gay. I really do because the script says that, and I feel like sometimes… just things they’ve said throughout the show.

Alison: Yeah, but I’m not talking about either of them can’t be; I’m just talking about their particular relationship.

Haley: Oh, I think their relationship…

Alison: Obviously Mike is straight.

Haley: Yeah, Mike is 100 percent [straight]. No, I 100 percent agree with you, and I think that that’s such a good friendship. Although, all the boys on that show are pretty good with that.

Alison: Yeah. But that’s what I’m saying, especially in Season 2, we have…

Aureo: Spoiler warning.

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: Sorry. Watch Stranger Things. Watch Season 2.

Alison: In Season 2 they have a couple [of] really good conversations where they’re discussing some things and they’re being vulnerable with each other. And it made my little heart so happy that I was like, “Yes, let’s combat this toxic masculinity that they bring up at other points in Season 2, as well, and have these guys just be best friends.” I love that!

Haley: It’s really good. I 100 percent agree.

Aureo: People, once you finish listening to this podcast, if you haven’t seen Stranger Things: Season 2, go change your life.

Kristen: And if you haven’t seen Season 1, seriously, what’s wrong with you? It’s amazing.

Alison: It’s 17 episodes total.

Haley: Real talk, though, if you like Harry Potter, you will like Stranger Things.

Kristen: I think so, yeah. Because I hate scary stuff and I was like, “I don’t want to watch it. I don’t watch anything scary.”

Alison and Haley: Me too!

Kristen: This is not that scary. It’s a great friendship, and it’s really wonderful.

Haley: The Duffer Brothers actually said that they are basing how they are filming it on Harry Potter with how the kids age every year. They said they were basing that on the Harry Potter movies.

Kristen: Oh, that’s cool.

Haley: Yeah.

Aureo: I really think we need to make a Stranger Things podcast because Haley… [laughs]

Haley: I agree. Let’s do it.

Alison: [laughs] I have so many thoughts.

Haley: Back to this. So Harry Potter

Kristen: So let’s go into our really weird ships: old men with kids. [laughs]

Haley: I don’t like that.

Aureo: He’s not that old, though.

Alison: Jeez.

Kristen: He’s his mom’s age.

Alison: He’s his father’s age.

Aureo: Remus and Tonks are not that far off from Snape and Harry.

Kristen: But Tonks is not under 18 years old. Tonks is over 18.

Aureo: Yeah. But some of those fanfictions between Snape and Harry [are] like Snape’s alive and they’re both past Deathly Hallows.

Haley: Deathly Hallows, yeah.

Kristen: I just always see it as Harry’s in school and Snape’s older, because I know there’s some of those, and I’m just like, “Nah. I can’t do that one if they’re not 18.”

Aureo: Yeah, I have a soft spot.

Alison: Okay, listen…

Kristen: Or Snape and Hermione.

Aureo: And I still don’t get Snape in love with Lily and then he’s going for the son. That’s weird. That’s like Twilight for me. But that’s just me. [laughs]

Kristen: That is where I draw the line.

Alison: It’s predatory, and it’s a problem, and it is a major “no” for me. Like, at all, whatsoever. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not in any universe.

Aureo: This is actually what Alison put in the doc to this one. [laughs]

Kristen: Yeah, she did. “No, no” in all caps.

Alison: I did. In all caps it says, “Nope. This is predatory. Full stop. Nope.”

Kristen: Nope. I just can’t.

Haley: That kind of got away. So the two ships we’re talking about are the Snape and Harry ship and Snape and Hermione.

[Alison laughs]

Haley: I also put, “you know.” But the thing is, for the Snape and Hermione [ship], I understand their logic behind it. Because Hermione is very similar to Lily, especially if you’re doing it as an older version. Because I also… Here’s the thing.

Kristen: There’s some young versions, and that’s why I’m like, “No.” [laughs]

Haley: Yeah. That’s not [okay]. When I saw Cursed Child, I actually didn’t see this as much, but some people said in that scene where they’re all older…

Aureo: Oh, really?

Alison: Oh, heck no!

Haley: No, I’m saying that people thought that and they were like, “Wait, what’s happening here?” I didn’t see that. I’m just saying that I saw people writing that online being like, “Wait a minute. What’s going on?”

Alison: I don’t understand those people. Those people were reading far into things that weren’t there.

Aureo: I also like the point you were bringing up that Hermione is similar to Lily. I don’t think that Hermione would forgive Snape as easily as Harry did. Harry was like, “Yeah, I’m sorry. I’m going to go name my son after you.” Hermione wouldn’t be like that.

Kristen: No, I agree. I don’t see them being similar, Lily and Hermione. I don’t know.

Haley: Well, in his mind, she’s Muggle-born, she’s smart, she’s a Gryffindor. She ticks those boxes.

Kristen: Yeah. Not enough for me. [laughs]

Aureo: It’s also a lot of fans’ argument that that’s why Snape is being so hard on Hermione, mostly.

Kristen: Oh.

Alison: Oh no. Oh jeez. No, no, no, no…

Aureo: [laughs] Whereas with Harry, it’s just weird because he hates him so much for being like James, even though Harry is not like James. But that’s basically what Snape thinks.

Kristen: So this Snape and Harry [ship] is what I think of when I see Grindelwald and Credence, and it was like, “Ugh.” Yeah, when I watch the movie, that’s what I came up with and I immediately was like, “God, it brings me back to Snape and younger Harry.” Because I don’t like the Grindelwald/Credence stuff in the movie because that’s what I come up with.

Aureo: But the thing is Harrry…

Haley: That’s a good parallel.

Kristen: We don’t know how old Credence is, though.

Aureo: Yeah, we don’t know. But Harry’s a lot less vulnerable by that point.

Kristen: Oh yeah. I’m just considering the age factor. That’s where I’m like, “Ugh.” That’s why I don’t like it, and that’s why I can’t stand the Grindelwald/Credence thing. So I’m just thinking that age and I do see that power.

Aureo: The age difference is 20 years, right?

Haley: Guys, we just skipped a really big book canon ship. We skipped Tonks and Remus!

Kristen: Oh.

Alison: Oh my gosh!

[Haley laughs]

Aureo: It’s not that big. It’s only a year.

Haley: You’re talking about age difference, and it just made me think of that.

Aureo: Yeah, we’re going to go into that later, actually.

Haley: Yeah.

Kristen: Yeah, we can’t do everything.

Aureo: Yeah, we can’t.

Haley: But speaking of Remus, we can move on to the next one. [snaps fingers] Hey-yo!

Aureo: We’re going to do this thing where Haley’s going to start talking about it, and you guys have to guess which two characters.

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: And honestly, I saw this and I had to find this one online. I have not actually read a fanfiction about them.

Aureo: Really?

Haley: What? Are you kidding me? It’s everywhere!

Aureo: It’s really everywhere.

Kristen: It is?

Haley: It’s everywhere.

Aureo: I know we’re talking about Remus and Sirius. [laughs]

Haley Speak up. I can’t hear you.

Kristen: I have seen all of these others, except for this one.

Aureo: What?!

Kristen: And I had no idea.

Alison: You’ve never seen this one?

Kristen: Uh-uh. But I did the fanfiction. It was like five years ago, so it was something.

Aureo: But it was even brought up on other Alohomora! shows. I’m fairly sure I remember that Michael was like, “Yes! Remus and Sirius!” at some point.

Kristen: Oh yeah. But I’ve never read anything about it. I’ve never… and I still haven’t.

Haley: The thing is, people have a lot of book stuff for this one, a lot of like, “Look! It’s there!” for these two.

Aureo: They’re even a werewolf and a dog. That works. [laughs]

Kristen: I’ve never seen it.

Haley: Yeah, I feel like in the books Sirius and Remus are very close. I mean, before [Harry], Sirius is never actually with anyone. He only hangs out with Remus; that’s all he does. They give Harry together gifts, conjoined gifts together.

Aureo: Oh yeah, they do.

Haley: They’re just besties. [laughs] The thing is, I really like this ship, especially when they’re younger. I’m all about this. I’m here for it.

Kristen: So where is it coming into? Because I’m agreeing with whoever. I’ve never really seen this one, but…

Alison: That’s me.

Kristen: Yeah, I’ve never really seen it in the books either. I never really have thought about it.

Haley: It’s really more popular in the Marauders era. There’s a lot of Marauders era things where it’s more common, when they’re younger and they’re in school.

Kristen: Okay.

Haley: And then later when Sirius… They’re not together when they’re older.

Kristen: But where do you see it in the book? The series?

Alison: What’s the basis in canon?

Haley: Let me literally just look up… Let me go to Tumblr.

[Aureo and Haley laugh]

Alison: Because I’ll say… I just don’t know. I think I’m the only one who doesn’t see the basis for it.

Kristen: Yeah, I’m with you there, Alison. I don’t…

Alison: I see it as the remnant of their friend group from when they were kids. So at this point, Remus has been a social outcast by the time we get to the books for years and years. He doesn’t really have a lot of other relationships. Sirius has also been a social outcast because he’s been in prison, and then in hiding, and then he dies.

Kristen: I could see Sirius more so falling for James than I can Remus and Sirius.

Haley: I don’t see James and Sirius. I really don’t see James and Sirius together at all.

Kristen: I don’t see it either, but I could justify more so Sirius with James because they were around each other so much, compared to Remus and Sirius.

Aureo: The thing is, a lot of Marauders era fanfic is the same problem all over. They write James trying to get Lily, and then Remus and Sirius [are] having fun, and they just discard Peter because they don’t know how to write him. Same thing with Ron, they’re just like, “Okay, and Peter was there.”

Alison: [laughs] And Peter was there.

Aureo: It really is like that. It just works really well if you read fanfiction, though.

Haley: It does. Also, if you go back to Alohomora!, the LGBT episode that Michael and Elayna are on, they had a whole talk about why it works. It was a whole thing, and I was like “Yes, yes, yes” to everything they said. I can’t even explain it. There’s just a lot of stuff. You got to just dive into the hole. Their ship name is WolfStar, and that’s what you just have to look for – the tag – and it’s everywhere.

Kristen: WolfStar! Okay, I have seen that. [laughs] Yeah. Okay.

Alison: Yeah. And again, it’s going back to my thing about how I just really like strong male friendships that tackle toxic masculinity. [laughs] And so I think I’ll just stay with that.

Haley: Yeah, and there’s also a thing that… Another basis in the books is that Remus is a representation of people with HIV.

Alison: Yeah, there is that.

Haley: There is the fact that… just his character… I mean, not just saying that only gay people have that, but just his werewolf [curse] parallels people coming out. You know what I mean? Not being accepted in society by people. That’s kind of… Remus has a lot of parallels to gay representation in the books. That’s another reason.

Kristen: Well, I want to encourage the fans in the comments forum to post some good Remus and Sirius fanfic. Because I do want to read it. I want to see it.

Haley: Oh, there’s so much. There is so much.

Aureo: You’re probably going to drown in [that] stuff.

[Aureo and Haley laugh]

Kristen: Well, fans, pick your best one to share. I want to see it. I want to read it. I want to get this.

Haley: I want to give a shout-out real quick. So there’s this artist on Tumblr and also on Instagram, and she draws everyone – canon ships, fanfiction ships – and her art is so good. We’ve sometimes posted it on MuggleNet too; it’s called UpTheHillart. She has a lot of Sirius and Remus stuff too, but her art is just so good. It’s the best. I recommend you look it up. Okay, so shall we move [on] to the next one?

Kristen: Yes. So we have Blaise and Luna or Draco and Luna. [laughs]

Alison: I literally was just like, “What?”

[Aureo laughs]

Alison: Never in my life have I heard either of these, and I’m just like, “What? How?”

Kristen: I like that there’s this “evil corrupts a good girl” pairing. That’s [how] I see it that way. Sometimes it draws people. You’ve got this kind of out-there good girl and she’s like, “Oh, well, I see this bad boy. I see he’s also emotionally struggling with life itself and friends.” I could see these.

Aureo: Yeah, they often pair Luna off with Slytherins or bad boys. Because if you go from the “evil corrupts good girl,” Luna is the best good girl that you could corrupt, in a way. Because she’s also very different.

Kristen: And I could see the emotional vulnerability of Draco and her being drawn to that and helping out, because she’s helped with emotional things in the past.

Aureo: Yeah, exactly like Moaning Myrtle talking with him in the bathroom in Half-Blood Prince, you could see Luna being there.

Kristen: Yeah. Is that one, Moaning Myrtle and Draco?

Alison: Oh, it probably is! [laughs]

Kristen: Is that thrown out there?

Haley: I watched Cursed Child, and I’m pretty sure it is.

Kristen: Okay.

[Aureo and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Moaning Myrtle wants it to be. Moaning Myrtle wants it.

Alison: Yeah, she does, but she also wants Harry too.

Kristen: Yeah. She wants all the boys.

Aureo: She watches Harry first.

Kristen: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true.

Haley: She was a teen when she died. She has a lot of feelings.

[Aureo laughs]

Kristen: But no, that’s a good one. I could see Draco and Luna or Blaise and Luna. Definitely. I like that “bad boy corrupts a good girl.” [laughs]

Aureo: Yeah. And I’ve often seen more of those as side characters to a story. So they would be more in the background; they would not be the focus of the story.

Kristen: Yes. Yep. And then we have another great favorite, Dean and Seamus. And the picture in here is amazing.

Haley: [laughs] I put in here, “You cannot say anything to convince me that this ship is not so.” You cannot convince me. I won’t even listen to reason. I won’t. And also, the picture I put in – look it up if you haven’t seen it – it’s great. There is a fan – it was at a convention – [who] got the actors to propose in her picture. It’s 10 out of 10 great.

Kristen: Yep. It’s amazing.

Haley: But basically, again, this ship came from not having many LGBT relationships in the books. I mean, they’re really close; they’re always together. They go to the Quidditch [World Cup] together, [so] obviously they’re best friends. But I feel like their ship is like, “We’re best friends, and hey, I think we like each other too.” That’s what I feel like with that.

Kristen: I can see Dean and Seamus [together] way more, going to back to Remus and Sirius. I still cannot see Remus and Sirius [together] at all, but Dean and Seamus, I totally get this. I’m totally on board with this one, and I can see it. Their banter, their closeness, everything, I see it.

Haley: The quote is the roar that Seamus lets out when he sees Dean come back. It’s just the best thing. I love them.

[Kristen laughs]

Haley: But yeah, they’re great. Bottom line. And also too, [with] the Ginny thing obviously in this, Dean is bi[sexual]. Duh. He likes Ginny in Half-Blood Prince.

Kristen: But no, I definitely could see… and I have read about this one a lot, and I like this one. I think it’s a great one that definitely should have been played out in the books.

Haley: The thing is with this one too, you were saying how you like things that work with the story. If this was added in the books, nothing would change. Nothing would be different.

Kristen: Yeah, I can totally see this one happening definitely. Because I see the origin from the book, so I can see it going further on or anything like that. Yeah.

Alison: And I guess we don’t even really know if it did or not.

Haley: There’s nothing saying against it.

Alison: Because Harry is clueless. [laughs]

Haley: Yeah. My favorite thing about when people would talk about the ships, they’re like, “Harry would not know if this was happening. It’s all from his point of view.” Literally they could just be kissing in front of him and he’d be like, “What great friends.”

Kristen: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: He would be, though. He’d be like, “They’re such good friends.”

Kristen: Oh, Harry.

Haley: Good ol’ Dean and Seamus.

Aureo: I mean, he notices that Seamus is jealous of Dean because Dean gets to be on the Quidditch team for a while.

Alison: Yeah.

Haley: Or is he jealous of Ginny? Dun-dun-dun!

Kristen: Exactly, yeah. I can totally see it. This is one of my faves that I do like on the fanfic side. Besides Harry and Hermione, Dean and Seamus is one of my faves.

Haley: There’s honestly not that much of it, though. Which I’m like, “How dare you, people.”

Kristen: Yeah. [laughs]

Aureo: I think it’s probably because people are just like, “Yeah, that’s a fact, so we don’t need to write about it.”

Haley: Yeah, they’re like, “Whatever. We don’t need to write it.”

Kristen: Yeah, I definitely really see this happening, so why do we even need to write about it? Because it’s done. It is happening.

Haley: It’s there. It’s done. It’s there.

Kristen: We agreed as a fandom.

Haley: And the great thing is… Why did his name just escape me?

Kristen: Who?

Haley: They guy who plays Seamus Finnegan. Why did his name escape me?

Alison: Oh, Devon Murray.

Haley: Devon Murray, that’s his name. He is 100 percent on board on this. Do you remember when Ireland got their independence, he tweeted out, “Now Seamus and Dean can get married”?

Kristen: Yeah! So that definitely helps when the actors are on board with it too, and they’re like, “Yeah, we see it too. We played the characters. We see it.” [laughs]

Haley: This has nothing to do with anything, but I love in the movies the meme where Dean is always there when Ron and Hermione are having a fight.

[Haley and Kristen laugh]

Haley: Have you seen that?

Kristen: No.

Aureo: No.

Haley: It’s so funny. When they’re having a moment, Dean is just always there. But then people just started taking it to the extreme when he’s not there and just cropping him in to scenes in the background. It’s pretty funny. Okay, moving on.

Kristen: Dumbledore and McGonagall. [laughs]

Aureo: I have to say… Obviously we learn [after] Deathly Hallows that Dumbledore is gay, but before that, that [pairing] was probably a pretty common thing, I think, mostly because he was the headmaster and she was… what’s the word? She’s not the headmistress. She’s the… one down.

Haley: Head of House?

Aureo: No. She’s like…

Alison: She’s the deputy headmistress.

Aureo: Yes. The only thing that I have is it’s a 54-year age gap. That’s a lot. [laughs]

Haley: Yeah, I never thought about this. And sorry, even if he wasn’t gay, I just see them more as friends. They’re just…

Kristen: I’m right there with you. That’s exactly how I saw it too throughout. I never ever paired them up together as anything except friends throughout the whole series. I never got anything, any sexual tension from that too. [laughs]

Aureo: Yeah. I think that people are just like, “They danced together at the Yule Ball,” and they’d be just like, “They basically are Mom and Dad of the school.” And people didn’t know the age gap was that big, so it was just in the early beginnings of Harry Potter. They were like, “Oh yeah, those two are a couple. They just don’t know.”

Kristen: But I could still see them as the mom and dad of the school, but not being together.

Aureo: Yeah.

Haley: Yeah. They are the mom and dad. [laughs]

Aureo: Is that weird? [laughs]

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: They are the mom and dad. I never thought about it like that, but I love it. They are the mom and dad of the school.

Aureo: They are! [laughs]

Kristen: Yeah! And I can totally see it, but I’m like, “They’re not together at all. They’re just mom and dad.” [laughs]

Aureo: Yeah. I think they’re just really great friends.

Kristen: Yes.

Haley: In a way, I feel like McGonagall and Dumbledore are each other’s partners though. Because McGonagall’s husband died and she doesn’t want to be with anyone, and he doesn’t want to be with anyone. So they have each other for companionship.

Aureo: There’s even a theory that a colleague in New Zealand told me about. She was like, “You know, there’s a theory that you have someone at work that’s basically your work married partner.”

Alison: [laughs] Yeah.

Kristen Oh yeah, your work wife or your work husband. Yep.

Aureo: And that would probably be them.

Kristen: Yes. Yeah.

Haley: Definitely.

Kristen: I can see that.

Alison: Yeah.

Haley: Except they live there, so that’s their own [unintelligible].

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: Well, they’re not there in the summer. At least, McGonagall is probably not there in the summer.

Alison: Dumbledore is on tropical islands in the summer. It’s fine.

Aureo: Yeah. [laughs]

Kristen: With his pasty skin? Yeah, right.

[Aureo and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: Next up, we have Harry and Luna.

Kristen: Yay!

Aureo: And I think that basically sparked from Half-Blood Prince where Harry takes Luna to the Slug [Club] party. At least, that’s what I think it comes from.

Alison: They’re not romantically compatible.

Aureo: Not at all. [laughs]

Haley: I agree. What this ship makes me think of… I feel like what would happen, Harry would accidentally be dating Luna and he’d be like, “What a minute. What did I do? How did I get to this situation? I was just trying to be nice.”

Aureo: [as Harry] “Hermione, how do I end this?” [laughs]

Haley: It would be if… because in the book he’s like, “Hey, Luna, you know this isn’t a date, right?” And she’s like, “Yeah.” That’s what happens in the book. But basically what it would be with Luna, he wouldn’t know and he’d be like, “Oh no, I thought this was friendship.”

Kristen: But I could see him going for her.

Alison: [laughs] “I thought this was friendship.”

Aureo: Harry’s never really comfortable around her. He’s always a bit weirded out. He always is like, “Uh, okay. Let’s talk again some other time.”

Alison: He likes Luna…

Kristen: He likes Luna, yeah.

Alison: But yeah, he always is like, “She says weird things sometimes.”

Kristen: Yeah. But she gets him. She understands some of those other sides where other people don’t.

Haley: She does get him.

Kristen: So I could see that, like, “Well, she’s the only one understanding me right now, so maybe it would be something that could work out.” Because they share some of those similarities.

Haley: Yeah.

Aureo: Luna often says stuff…

Haley: That he’s thinking.

Aureo: … in moments where everyone else is like, “Okay, that was awkward. Why would you say something that bluntly?”

Haley: I feel like they have a similar relationship [as] Harry and Hermione do, Harry and Luna.

Kristen: Yeah. I could see that, yeah. Except he’s got… But she shares more of those emotional similarities with him.

Haley: Yeah. I agree.

Kristen: So on a different, deeper level, per se, I guess.

Haley: Harry and Ravenclaws just don’t work out romantically.

Kristen: Yeah. [laughs]

Haley: I honestly think that that’s a thing, though. If you pair Houses together, I don’t think Gryffindors and Ravenclaws work well.

Alison: Oh, I think I’ve heard of some.

Aureo: Do you think Gryffindors and Slytherins would work out then?

Alison: Maybe.

Haley: I think Gryffindors and Slytherins are very similar. I think the problem with Gryffindors and Ravenclaws is the fact that Gryffindors are just like, “Let’s do it right now; it’s happening.” Ravenclaws are like, “You have to plan this; this isn’t right. What are you doing? We have to be more logical.”

Aureo: I don’t know.

Haley: Because honestly, even my friends… Because I’m a Gryffindor. My friends who are Ravenclaws sometimes just cannot handle me. They’re like, “Why are you this way?” [laughs]

Aureo: But then they have Flitwick, and I don’t see Flitwick as someone who’d be like, “No, I have to plan stuff.”

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: True.

Aureo: But he was a Hatstall, so I suppose that’s not really the best example then.

Kristen: [laughs] No. Yeah.

Haley: Bottom line: I just don’t think that they’re good together. I think they’re good friends together, but I don’t think they are attracted to each other. They’re good together [but] they’re not attracted to each other.

Kristen: Any House can be with any House.

Aureo: Yeah, Percy is dating a Ravenclaw, isn’t he?

Haley: Yeah, obviously.

Kristen: Yeah. Penelope Clearwater, right?

Aureo: Yeah.

Alison: But Percy is basically a Ravenclaw. [laughs]

Aureo: No, he’s more Slytherin.

Kristen: Yeah, he’s a Gryffindor. But that goes to show… because there’s so many different types of Gryffindors within the Gryffindor House and so many Ravenclaws in Ravenclaw House and Hufflepuff and Slytherin. So anybody could be with anybody else from a House.

Haley: Everyone can be with everyone, but I was just saying, I think that sometimes those personalities can butt heads pretty easily.

Alison and Kristen: Yeah.

Aureo: Okay. Next one. The “Is-it-canon-or-is-it-not-canon” one: Voldemort and Bellatrix.

Alison: [sighs] You all go first.

Kristen: It’s canon! It’s in the book; it’s in the play. J.K. Rowling gave the approval. It’s canon to me.

Haley: No, it’s not.

Alison: It is! You guys go first, and then I’ll go back to my theories on how this all worked out. [laughs]

Haley: Okay, so here’s here’s what I think about them. Bellatrix is obviously obsessed/in love with him. It’s in the books, obviously… Voldemort – I don’t think he has the capability of feeling, nor does he have romantic feelings. But I do think he probably humors her so that she’ll continue to follow him. He’ll probably give her these moments where she thinks, “Wow, he cares about me; I’m special.”

Aureo: Yeah. I agree.

Haley: Maybe [he’ll] spend time with her apart from the Death Eaters, and she’ll be like, “Wow, we’re in love.” But it’s more like him just keeping her satisfied so she will continue to fight for him.

Aureo: Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. That’s the only way I can see that work[ing] out. Because I think it’s established that Voldemort cannot love…

Haley: Yeah, he can’t.

Aureo: … so he would not be interested in any form of relationship. So that’s really the only way I can see that working out. Alison, what are your thoughts?

Alison: Just revisiting a theory I’ve brought up before, in a similar way of how we talked about Grindelwald doing this, Voldemort uses Bellatrix’s obsession/love/whatever/lust for him.

Kristen: And uses it for his advantage.

Alison: Yes. And so if we remember, this is how one of my theories of how Delphi was born, that it was somehow a way to keep Bellatrix tied to Voldemort. So either… however that happened… [laughs] Whether it was magical or physical…

Haley: I need you to explain to me in great detail right now.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: No! Whether it was magical or whether it was physical or whatever the heck it was…

Kristen: Yeah. It was physical.

Alison: … he was somehow trying to just keep basically stringing Bellatrix along.

Kristen: Yes. I don’t think he’s in love with her…

Alison: No.

Kristen: … but he’s using her love to gain more power. So I definitely think it’s canon. I mean, me and Alison were on an episode way, way back with Cursed Child.

Alison: [laughs] Where we argued with everybody else.

Kristen: Yeah, it’s just me and her against 20 people, but we’re like, “No!” So you got both of us again, and we’re thinking the exact same things.

Haley: Well, I’m on the same page as you in that sense. That’s how I think their relationship is too. My problem with Delphi is I don’t think that he would ever have her as a backup. I never think he would think, “Oh…”

Alison: Oh no. If he was involved in her creation, I don’t think he did it purposefully to be like, “This is my backup.” I think she came up with that herself.

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: Okay. Because I was like, “That would never happen.”

Kristen: No. I don’t think it was his [idea]. It was her psychotic mind. She’s got her own problems.

Alison: She’s got issues, and she came up with a lot of this backstory, and this purpose she decided she had by herself.

Kristen: Yeah, but I think that’s fully her choice, not his. Yeah, agreed.

Alison: Yeah.

Haley: Okay.

Aureo: Glad we solved that.

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: Okay. We all agree. There we go.

Kristen: It is canon. And the next one…

[Aurelia and Kristen laugh]

Alison: As weird as it is, as fanfiction-y as it sounds, it’s canon.

Kristen: Yes.

Aureo: So the next one I have in here is Harry and Tonks, and I think that basically just came from Harry thinking that Tonks is cool. But I personally think that he just thinks her to be a cool, fun bigger sister-y version or probably a friend version.

Alison and Kristen: Yes.

Kristen: That’s what I see it as.

Alison: It’s like the way he thinks Bill is cool, right? When he first meets Bill, he’s like, “Bill’s cool,” you know?

Haley: I don’t think these two have any chemistry together.

Alison: No.

Haley: They seem like a horrible match. I don’t think that he likes her romantically at all. I feel like even sometimes, while he thinks Tonks is cool, he gets annoyed by her sometimes too.

Kristen: She’s annoying. Yes, yes.

Aureo: Yeah, she is a bit annoying.

Kristen: Like a big sister does.

Alison: Yes.

Haley: Yeah. I don’t think so. And although… I will say, like you were saying, is the age difference too big? I don’t think it is because Tonks and Remus are 13 years apart.

Alison: At this age though? At the age when Harry’s 15, 16?

Haley: No, too much. Well, I’m saying…

Alison: Yeah, when Harry’s like 15, 16? No. Because Tonks and Remus…

Haley: How old is Tonks?

Aureo: She’s seven years older. I looked it up.

Haley: Oh no. I don’t think Tonks and Remus is weird at all. Also, just side note, my parents are ten years apart, so I don’t think it’s weird.

Kristen: My parents are 11 years apart.

Aureo: Yeah, Tonks and Remus are 13 years apart.

Kristen: But they were both over 18. She was 21; [he was] 32. Once you’re over the 18 year gap, I think you’re fine.

Alison: Well, I think once you hit about 20, it…

Haley: Falls away, yeah.

Alison: It doesn’t really matter anymore.

Kristen: Yes, yeah. Agreed.

Haley: That’s like we were saying before, with Cho and Harry. Yes, they’re only one or two years apart, but when you’re a teen, that’s a big deal.

Alison: That’s a lot. Yeah.

Aureo: I also like, Alison, your point in here that it would basically be the age gap between you and your students.

Alison: Yeah, which is weird. Listen, I deal with them every day, and no.

Haley: That’s funny.

Alison: For a multitude of reasons, but ugh! I’m sorry; they’re gross. Ew!

Kristen: But you can still be with them in a fun way as a teacher [or] big sister, exactly how Tonks would lead him.

Alison: Oh yeah. They’re my students. I care about them like they’re my own children. That’s how I feel about them.

Haley: That’s how Tonks sees Harry.

Kristen: Yeah, I agree.

Alison: If we’re bringing it back to Stranger Things, it’s like how we all want to adopt those kids. We just want all those kids to be our children.

Kristen: Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Aureo: Okay, so we all agree.

Alison and Kristen: Yes.

Aureo: Next up, I have one that is actually fairly common, but I don’t really get why. It’s Oliver Wood and Marcus Flint, and I think the basic reason is they both like Quidditch. But we don’t really know both of them, so…

Alison: I have never heard this in my whole life. And also, even if their thing that people put them together with is Quidditch, do they not remember that Flint tries to crush Wood’s hand? They hate each other. This is Quidditch, dang it, and this is a serious game.

Kristen: But then that hate turns to love.

Haley: Or is it a love crush.

Kristen: A love-hate relationship, yeah.

Alison: No.

Aureo: There’s a lot of fanfiction where they bet on who’s going to win the Quidditch Cup and the games, and that’s how the whole relationship is all about Quidditch.

Haley: That’s funny.

Kristen: That’s all I could see that relationship [being] about. It’s just about Quidditch, so I don’t see it lasting very long.

Alison: Which [is] why I don’t see it. It can’t just be founded on one thing.

Aurelia and Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: I found out about this pretty recently. I remember I was on Tumblr, and I was like, “Oh, that’s a thing? I didn’t know that.” But again, the thing is that both of their characters aren’t fleshed out that much, and they’re not with anyone. So I see theirs, which I do with a lot of relationships like this. I’m like, “Ah, why not? Have fun. Who cares?” You know what I mean? I don’t have any reason against it.

Aureo: We don’t know Marcus Flint at all. We don’t know anything. And the thing that we know about Oliver [is that] he might as well be in love with Quidditch.

Haley: Yeah. He’s like Charlie.

Aureo: Does he do anything else?

Alison: No. Oliver Wood is in love with me.

[Aurelia, Haley, and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: Oh, okay. I forgot. Oliver Wood is in love with Alison.

Alison: I’m kidding. I’m kidding.

Aureo: Yeah, let’s move on.

Haley: Next one.

Alison: There’s a ton of others.

Aureo: Next up, James and Sirius.

Kristen: [singing] James and Sirius.

Haley: I put that, like I said before, I do see Remus and Sirius. I don’t see James and Sirius because they are this great friendship. James takes Sirius in when his family casts him out, and he just brings him over to Gryffindor. I mean, I could see how people would [ship them] because of those things, but I see it as they’re just besties. And then it sucks for Sirius that he’s not there anymore.

Alison: I’m going to bring up Mike and Will again, and also Mike and Eleven’s conversation at the end of Season 1 about siblings, and also going to dances and how you don’t go to dances with your siblings because that’s weird. That’s all I’m going to say.

Haley: So Sirius and James shouldn’t go to dances together? Is that what you’re saying?

Alison: Yes, that’s what I’m saying, because of their relationship. They’re like brothers, you know? There are lots of different kinds of love, and I think while some kinds of love can turn into other kinds of love, some kinds of love…

Haley: Don’t. Because the thing with Sirius, too, is [James is] his best friend. And then later in the books, Sirius is projecting James onto Harry, saying that Harry is his best friend now. He doesn’t say it, but that’s how he treats Harry, like he treats James.

Kristen: But as I said again, I could see more so this than Remus/Sirius. I can’t [see that]. That’s why I can’t wait for the comments. People can show me some so I can see it. I really would like to see it because I just don’t get it.

Aureo: Kristen, once you’ve read the stuff, give us feedback.

Haley: I want a report.

Kristen: You guys show me. Write in the comments, and I’ll write back to you. Because I do want to be proven… I want to see this because I can’t for the life of me see it. But I can see James and Sirius.

Haley: I’m posting something in the doc for you.

Kristen: Well, I can’t read it now.

Haley: Not read it. Wait a second… Here, just keep talking.

Kristen: Well, I mean, I’ve said my point. I’ve said my point. I can see the James and Sirius factor from the books. I’ve got to see it somewhere a little bit in the books to make it out in the fanfiction realm sometimes, even just the tiniest hint. I can see that tiny hint between James and Sirius more so than I can at all with Remus and Sirius. But I do also just see James and Sirius being those best friends together, which I love, and his family taking him in and everything like that. So even if it’s just a friendship ship, I ship it.

Alison: Friendship ship.

Aureo: Brothers from another mother.

Kristen: Exactly.

Alison: They’re bros. It’s a bromance.

Kristen: Yes, yep. And I love it.

Haley: Definitely.

Aureo: Okay, next one I have [is] Ginny and Luna. Feelings on that?

Alison: Ugh. I don’t think it would work because I think Ginny’s too similar to Harry. So for the same reasons Harry and Luna wouldn’t work, they wouldn’t work. But I like that Ginny has more friends. And Ginny needs more friends. But I do like that… I think it was Ginny that decided to name their daughter Lily Luna. I definitely think she was the one who was like, “We are honoring Luna this way by naming a child after her.” And Harry was like, “All right. Yeah, she’s cool.”

Kristen: But I could definitely see Ginny/Luna. It’s again one of those, like you said, Harry supporting Ginny in Quidditch when she’s playing Quidditch. I see Luna supporting Ginny so much and I can just see it… That’s just one thing in their relationship blossoming from there. And Ginny’s so nice to Luna when everybody has just always been so awful. So her getting, “Oh, well, she’s always so nice,” I could definitely see something there. I could see this.

Aureo: Especially since Luna has the lion head. Do we ever see her wearing Ravenclaw stuff? I think we do, actually. I just keep forgetting it.

Alison: Yes, because I think at the next match she has a giant eagle on her head.

Aureo: Yeah, right.

Kristen: Yeah, just in the books. The movies don’t.

Aureo: But still, who else? It always says the other [Houses] were rooting for Gryffindor when it was Gryffindor against Slytherin. Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws would root for Gryffindor. But only Luna went far out to be like, “I’m wearing a lion head and it’s going to roar.”

[Aureo, Haley, and Kristen laugh]

Alison: But I think that could have been all of her friends. It could have been all of her Gryffindor friends. By that point, she has a lot. She’s got Harry and Hermione and Ron and Ginny and Neville and all the other people in the D.A.

Aureo: That was not a point for, “Hey, that’s a relationship I see.” That’s just how Luna is.

Alison: Yeah.

Haley: Here’s the thing: these two are usually paired together when Draco and Harry are paired together, and I think it works. In that scenario I’m like, “Yeah, I like it. I’m here for it,” I think, because Ginny and Luna do get along very well. Ginny’s the only person who’s nice to Luna at the beginning in her year, because they’re actually in the same year together. So they do see each other quite a lot, more than you see in the books. Because they’ve known each other probably since first year at Hogwarts, which is strange to think about, because you meet Luna [in the] fifth book. Ginny’s known her this whole time. I don’t think it works in the books, obviously, but I think it’s a nice pairing when…

Aureo: Plus, they’re almost neighbors. I could see them play[ing] together as children. We just don’t see it.

Kristen: Yeah.

Haley: That’s so weird. I didn’t really think about that. Yeah, they’ve known each other probably their entire lives.

Aureo: Plus, what you brought up, Haley, that Draco and Harry in those fics that Ginny and Luna are always paired, it’s either that or Ginny is really mean-spirited and against the whole Draco/Harry relationship. That’s the two ways it goes.

Haley: That’s why I like it when she’s with Luna, because then she’s not mean.

[Aureo laughs]

Alison: Yeah, I don’t know. I just like them being friends, too, because Ginny needs more friends. [laughs]

Haley: Ginny does need friends.

Alison: I like those strong… I just like friendship, guys.

[Alison and Aureo laugh]

Alison: Because I also like strong girl friendships. [laughs]

Haley: Yeah. Hermione needs more strong girl friendships.

Alison: Yeah, which is why I love thinking about in the future, Ginny and Luna and Hermione have girls’ days, and they just…

Haley: The thing is, I really don’t think Hermione and Luna get along though.

Alison: Well, they’ll never be quite as close, but I can see them… When it’s the three of them, they’re fine.

Haley: Yeah, Ginny and Hermione are good. And then probably Ginny is the moderator.

Kristen: Yeah, I was going to say, Ginny’s that middle man. Ginny has to be there for all three of them to hang out.

Alison: And I think Luna and Hermione come to at least respect each other.

Kristen: Yes.

Haley: Oh yeah, definitely. But she thinks she’s crazy though.

Alison: Well, to some extent, yes, they both do.

Aureo: It’s so weird, though, that both Ginny and Hermione are best friends. They’re not in the same school year and they don’t get along with any other girls in their year. I mean, no from Hermione.

Haley: No, I think Ginny actually had a lot more friends.

Alison: Yeah, she just has more school friends.

Haley: We just don’t see Ginny because she’s popular. [Jo] said that she’s really popular at school.

Aureo: But we actually don’t know a lot about Ginny.

Haley: Yeah, because even in Half-Blood Prince, when Draco and them are in the carriage, they talk about Ginny. They’re like, “Oh, that really pretty, popular Gryffindor girl.” And Pansy’s like, “Oh, even Blaise likes Ginny.” And he’s like, “No, I don’t.”

Aureo: Oh yeah, right.

[Haley laughs]

Aureo: Yeah. We need more information on Ginny.

Haley: I need more information on everybody.

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: Yeah. Agreed.

Aureo: So I have one last one in here that apparently only I know, and that’s a bit of a weird one. It’s McGonagall and Hooch, so Madam Hooch. I’ve seen it in a lot of one-shots and stuff like that, and basically they’re pairing them off on Quidditch again.

Haley: Got to love these Quidditch [pairings].

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: Because McGonagall used to be a very good Quidditch player until she injured her back, if I’m not completely mistaken.

Haley: Yeah, she got hurt.

Alison: She fell off a broomstick or something, didn’t she, in a game?

Aureo: Yeah. And then again, Madam Hooch is one of those characters where we don’t know anything. Seriously, what is she even doing? Is she even full-time at Hogwarts? Does she do stuff aside from one flying lesson and then referreeing the Quidditch games?

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: What is she doing?

Haley: I feel like, though, in a way, characters like that are really good for fanfiction because you can project anything you want onto that character.

Aureo: Yeah.

Kristen: Yeah. No, agreed.

Haley: You can write them however you want without messing up canon.

Aureo: Yeah. Because the only thing that we know is she’s obsessed with Quidditch. And that’s it.

Kristen: Yeah. That’s all I know.

Haley: Literally what I wrote was, “I’ve never seen this, but why not?” [laughs]

Alison: And I wrote 15 dots and then 20 question marks.

[Aureo laughs]

Kristen: I didn’t write anything.

Aureo: Yeah.

Haley: Honestly, that’s my reaction to every pairing: “Eh, why not? Do what you want.” Except when it comes to Neville/Luna, then I’m against it!

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: It’s just a love for Quidditch, but again we don’t really know. I’m in the same boat. Sure! I don’t see it. Write something [and] maybe I’ll see it.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Aureo: I think McGonagall is more like an uptight, strict person, and Hooch could probably be more like a relaxed “hey, let’s have some fun” person. It could be the same as Ron and Hermione in a way. Hooch could be like, “Hey, stop working. We need to have some fun.”

Haley: “We need to go play Quidditch.”

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: No, yeah, definitely. I could see it in that point. Yeah.

Haley: So many ships, so little time.

Kristen: Yes, I know. There’s so many more that we could have gone into. There’s so many great ones. Well, thank you, Aureo, for being on the show with us and talking about all these wonderful, amazing ships and adding in some new ones for us as well.

Aureo: I had a blast! It’s always great to talk with all of you, especially since now I’ve met you. So it’s always cool.

Kristen: Yes.

Alison: [laughs] Yeah.

Kristen: Oh yeah, definitely.

Haley: Thank you, MuggleNet Live!

Kristen: Yay!

[Everyone laughs]

Aureo: MuggleNet Live, bringing people together since 2017.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: And our next [episode], if you want to keep listening to us and chatting – because we’ll chat a lot – we’re going to dive into another Chapter Revisit next time, which will be Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 21, “Hermione’s Secret,” which I’m having a personal party over here about.

Aureo: And Alison will bring up all the Stranger Things references. [laughs]

Alison: Aw, there’s no Time-Turning in that!

Kristen: Wait for Season 3.

[Everyone laughs]

Haley: Okay. So if you want to be on the show next week or any other time, you can submit topics on the main site of the page, whatever you want, and perhaps we’ll talk about it. And if you want to be a guest, all you have to do is get a set of Apple headphones and you’re all set. You don’t need any fancy equipment. If you have it, sure, use it, but you don’t need it. Just come on and join us.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: And always, again, you can contact us on many various social media sites. On Twitter we’re @AlohomoraMN; Facebook at Don’t forget, our website is, and I want to see your comments about fanfiction.

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: Or you can email us at

Haley: One more reminder for you guys to go check out our Patreon, which is, and you can sponsor us for as little as $1 a month. You get all these cool things and we talk a lot, and you get to join our fun Facebook group. So I definitely recommend joining.

Kristen: Yes. Thank you, Lauren D.

Alison: Yes! Yay!

Haley: Lauren, thanks for sponsoring.

Alison: Well, I guess we’re going to go read some fanfic.

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Alison: We’ve got some catching up to do on some of these. I’m Alison Siggard.

[Show music begins]

Haley: I’m Haley Lewis.

Kristen: And I’m Kristen Keys. Thank you for listening to Episode 232 of Alohomora!.

Alison: Open the Dumbledore.

[Show music stops]

Alison: And McGonagall or Grindewald… Who’s coming through the door?

Haley: You can decide. [laughs]

[Show music continues]

Haley: I see Cursed Child as a Star Wars Christmas special.

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: And I see it as The Force Awakens, so…

Kristen: Hey-o!

Haley: Oh no!

Kristen: I’m with you there, Alison.

Haley: Oh gosh.

Aureo: I hate The Force Awakens.

Kristen: Oh! Get out of here now! Go! Go home!

Haley: This is not Star Wars. Not the time, not the time.

[Alison and Haley laugh]

Aureo: What? It was just the same thing all over again.

Kristen: It was amazing and it’s the best, and BB-8 is my favorite character of all time!

Haley: Right. It’s the best!

Alison: It’s an operatic saga! Of course there’s going to be parallels!

Haley: We don’t have the time for this. We don’t have the time.

Kristen: Patrick, cut that out. Cut it out.

Haley: We’ll put it on our Stranger Things podcast. We’ll put it on there.

Kristen: Yeah. Let’s just have an episode about The Force Awakens. So head on over to Patreon and…

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: We keep promising these things. We’re going to have to deliver. [laughs]