Transcript – Episode 137

[Show music begins]

Caleb Graves: This is Episode 137 of Alohomora! for May 16, 2015.

[Show music continues]

Caleb: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another Potter-filled discussion episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.

Kristen Keys: I’m Kristen Keys.

Rosie Morris: And I’m Rosie Morris. And it is my pleasure to introduce today’s special guest: Drew. Would you like to introduce yourself a little bit, Drew?

Drew Johnson: Hi, yes, my name is Drew. I am a Ravenclaw. Pretty much every quiz I’ve ever taken has always placed me in Ravenclaw, so I pretty much connect with that House a lot. I am a[n] English teacher. I teach middle school English. I’ve been doing that for a few years now. I am also a classical musician, so I do that in addition to my teaching as well.

Kristen: Awesome.

Caleb: Bless you for teaching middle school students.

Rosie: Yeah, you’re right at the correct age level for Harry Potter.

Drew: It never gets boring.

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Kristen: And just a quick reminder, listeners, that this week, we will be doing Chapter 19 in […] Half-Blood Prince, which is “Elf Tales.”

Rosie: We’d also like to take a quick moment to thank our sponsor, Audible. Exclusively for fans of Alohomora!, they are offering a free audio download. They have over 150,000 titles to choose from, so head over to audiblepodcast.com/open to get yours now.

Caleb: And before we head off to Chapter 19, we’re going to look at some of your comments from last week’s episode, and once again, you guys went all out. I think we were around 200 comments whenever I checked earlier today. I tried to read as many as possible, but my goodness, you guys are amazing. So our first comment comes from DisKid, and it is on the subject of Apparating, and the comment says,

“Why does [A]pparating have to be such ridiculously difficult magic? Before this chapter I figured for [A]pparating they could just use their wand to say where they wanted to go, and then poof, they’re there. After all, that’s what happens with [F]loo [P]owder. I just couldn’t believe the wizarding world couldn’t figure out an easier way to teleport. Not to mention, the side effects of [A]pparating are so intense! Is there such thing as post traumatic [sic] [A]pparating disorder in the wizarding world? I would think that for some wizards, [A]pparating and seeing body parts detached from their body could be quite terrifying! I don’t want to see my body over there and my head floating in midair! That would probably cause me to never want to [A]pparate again even with [S]ide[-Along-A]pparition. I can only imagine a terrible memory it would bring just watching somebody [A]pparate. I’d be scared I’d see body parts detach.”

It is rather difficult to Apparate, but I think that’s a good thing: Rowling makes magic not too easy.

Kristen: Yeah, exactly.

Rosie: And I think she did that on purpose. Once we knew about Apparating and we had a few years to think, “Well, is Apparating just teleporting? It’s really easy?” I think she deliberately introduced this really hard way of learning how to do it. And it’s a right of passage, just like learning to drive, so it’s meant to be that difficult thing that once you know how to do it, it’s incredibly easy, but getting to that stage is important.

Kristen: And there’s always a dangerous element to any kind of transporting. It doesn’t matter what it is.

Caleb: And as hard as it is, I will say, “Apparating is the thing I wish I could do more than anything.”

[Rosie laughs]

Kristen: Oh, definitely. It’s so quick and easy.

Caleb: It’s so hard, though. I think we easily forget that out in the Muggle world, wishing we could do it.

Rosie: I’m still not sure that the body and the head would detach from each other. I think that would be a death moment rather than actual “you can see your body over there” moment.

[Kristen laughs]

Caleb: I hope not.

Rosie: The key torso area still needs to be attached. You can lose ears, you can lose fingernails, you can lose all that kind of stuff, but head from body sounds a bit difficult.

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Drew: So something I’ve always wondered about Apparating is “Do we think there’s a limit to how far you can Apparate without certain consequences?”

Rosie: I think we’ve discussed this on the show before, that we think it’s easier to Apparate closer to yourself, and you would need a great deal of magic to Apparate cross-country or cross-continental even, and that’s why Portkeys and things exist, because it makes it just that much easier to go long distance[s]. But I think for people like Dumbledore, Apparating long distance[s] is probably easier, but you still need to have seen the place that you’re going to beforehand.

Drew: Yeah, the one thing that I always remember – I think it’s in Deathly Hallows – they mention something about Voldemort. When he goes to – I can’t remember – somewhere else in Europe, it mentions something about how he had to get into Apparition range before he could Apparate back to the Death Eaters. Does anybody remember what I’m talking about, maybe?

Rosie: It’s probably some kind of… is it when he goes to go to Grindelwald’s prison?

Drew: Yes, that is what it is. Yeah. Yes.

Caleb: All right, the next comment comes on the topic of magic and philosophy from thequeerweasleycousin, and it says,

“Golpalott’s Third Law seems to be connected to or even based on a quote by Aristotle (from ‘Metaphysics’): ‘The whole is more than the sum of its parts.’ It has been discussed before that knowledge of science (biology, physics, chemistry…) seems to be important for subjects like Transfiguration and Charms. Now, this seems to suggest that philosophy could be helpful to understand magical processes, too. Then, this also [proves] that there is some shared knowledge in magical and [M]uggle science. I guess you have discussed that before, but I wonder, how does this happen? Was there a time when the magical and [M]uggle societ[ies] [were] closer in contact with each other and ideas spread from one [to] another? Was Aristotle a wizard? Or is the magical community influenced by some brilliant [M]uggle scientists and inventors, taking their ideas and applying them to magic? Personally, [I] like the idea that some [M]uggle geniuses have influenced magical science and the other way [a]round. For example, someone like Albert Einstein clearly was a [M]uggle, and I think his ideas may have impacted the wizarding world. Or another theory: maybe sometimes a witch [or] wizard decides to abandon the magical community and join the [M]uggles and because of their magic ends up [being] a very brilliant scientist.”

So we had talked about science and magic before. It’s an easy connection to make. But I like the idea that… well, first off, there are just some brilliant Muggles, period, and that the magical community relies on their discoveries. And also this last point that maybe there are these wizards or witches who just got so tired with the limitations of magic and actually moved into the Muggle world.

Rosie: Yeah, the last episode I was on, we were talking about ancient languages and how they shaped spellcasting. And yeah, I loved the idea that Muggles in ancient wizard societies were closer and ideas spread from one another and yeah, Aristotle being with it is definitely something I could see. He fits in right with the Philosopher’s Stone and all that kind of stuff, so yeah. Just Ancient Greeks. They’re all wizard, man.

[Caleb, Kristen, and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: All right, and the last two comments come on the same topic. There was some discussion last week about Harry being similar to Voldemort, and of course, Harry recognizes some similarities as he’s going after Slughorn in the chapter. And there were people going on both sides of this with Harry’s similarity to Voldemort. So first, Skgai has to say,

“On the topic of Harry acting like Voldemort, I love how this is another reinforcement that Harry isn’t Voldemort. Every ([which is a] scary word on a forum) time Harry tries to act like Voldemort, he can’t. And it’s because they are approaching each situation differently. In this chapter they both want information from Slughorn, but Voldemort lacks any empathy or compassion for Slughorn while Harry has both of those attributes. Voldemort can be smarmy because he doesn’t care at all about Slughorn. Harry, on the other hand, considers him a person, and that, in a vacuum, to Harry is enough to have empathy. It doesn’t feel natural to him to lie for no reason. In Deathly Hallows he has well[-]founded reasons for lying and swindling, but here Dumbledore hasn’t told him why it’s important. Short answer: Harry has love, Voldy has hate. Big surprise, I know.”

And then on the other side, Hufflepug has to say,

“I’ve actually never liked how Harry acted like Voldemort when he asked Slughorn about the Horcruxes. […] [It’s] also kind of a facepalm moment. If Harry actually thought he was going to get any information from Slughorn that way, he must have had [N]argles in his head. I know he’s not the most cunning or tactful person in the world, but this just seems excessive. Ok[ay], rant is over.”

So yeah, there [are] some things that… obviously, there are some similarities and some differences. To push back on Skgai’s comment, I think Voldemort does… it’s not genuine empathy, but he definitely tries to feign empathy in some ways, or at least like that little buddy-buddy relationship in some ways.

Drew: And I think you talked about this last episode, but I love the movie scene of this. You just get such a clear picture of – visually and just personality – how different Harry and Voldemort are from that scene in the movie. The teenage Voldemort… it’s been a little while since I’ve seen the movie, but he’s just smarmy-looking a little bit, where[as] Harry just seems much more innocent and genuine in that scene.

Rosie: Yeah, Tom Riddle is just so controlled, and he just knows exactly what he’s doing with every single choice that he makes, whereas Harry is still just dipping his toe in the water with the way he approaches it. He’s testing it out. He’s not really trying to pull the wool over his eyes in any way, and ultimately, that’s why he fails. But just to know Harry is aware that is not the best way about going about this – and that’s why he’s hesitant about it – is endearing. But yeah, it’s a total facepalm moment.

[Kristen laughs]

Rosie: Why would you do that in the first place? It’s just a bad idea, Harry. [laughs]

Caleb: All right, well, that wraps up the comments we’re reading for last week’s episode. There were, like I said, so many great comments. We couldn’t get to all of them. As usual, there was great discussion on the dark versus the humorous elements of Half-Blood Prince, which so many people dove into on the main site. Dementors and Horcruxes – that was a discussion started by WombatWizard – more Harry and Hermione discussion from Pig Puff, and the mechanics of a Pensieve from Laurel Phoenix, and like I said, a lot more, so head over to the main site and check out those comments.

Rosie: But we’ve also got our Podcast Question of the Week responses from last week to get through. So just a quick recap of the question. It said, “As Rowling revealed, she considered killing Ron off, and at this chapter’s conclusion, Ron comes as close to death as he ever would. Would this have been the place to kill Ron? If not here, where in the series would this decision have best served the narrative? When selecting a point for this event, be sure to consider the effects on the characters and the storyline as a whole.” So I’ve just taken a few from the site just to show a bit of a range of responses. The first one come from They ve Taken My Wheezy, and it says,

“This would actually have been a perfect place to kill off Ron. From the end of this chapter forward we would have seen a completely different story and ending. Harry would change. We would see the aggressive and initiative[-]taking Harry from book 5 again, ready to stop playing games and end the war right then and there. His studying and hunt for Horcruxes would be extremely more difficult. Harry wouldn’t have the patience to sit down and learn anymore. The time for action would be then and there. Hopefully this would drive Dumbledore from his riddle games and ways of teaching and bring him to Harry’s side, all secrets revealed and a full[-]on frontal force engaged. They would be actively hunting and being direct with one another. I solemnly believe Hermione would grow distant. This would be Harry’s doing. He would want her out [o]f harm[‘]s way and push her away. I can go on with specifics, but the general idea is that things would have changed drastically, probably for the better.”

Do you guys agree? I’m not sure it would be for the better.

Caleb: For the better? Dang. That’s harsh.

Rosie: Yeah.

[Drew and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: I think, yeah, it would definitely be a call for action and he would definitely be more driven, but I don’t think that pushing Hermione away would be a better way to do things. [laughs]

Kristen: Mhm.

Caleb: Yeah, so many things would’ve gone wrong if Hermione was not as she was.

Rosie: Yeah.

Drew: I just think if she had killed him off here, it would’ve been a very cowardly way to kill off one of the main characters and almost comical. I almost think the character of Ron deserves more respect; a more noble way to die than choking or being poisoned. Maybe dying in battle later on in the series or something like that. I just don’t think this would be the best place for him to die because it would make him a joke a little bit.

Caleb: It’s funny how we think about… that made me think how main characters, we feel very particular about. It’s obviously very devastating when they die, but if they are going to die, then we need it to happen in a very legitimate, fleshed-out way. I’m thinking about if anyone watches Grey’s Anatomy…

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: … the Grey’s Anatomy fandom is ready to take out Shonda Rhimes for this very reason, but it is important, I think. I agree that it would’ve been such a sold-short death if he would’ve died just by poison in Slughorn’s office.

Drew: Yeah.

Rosie: I think it is interesting when people do kill off main characters in a shocking way, though.

Kristen: Yeah.

Rosie: Just think of Game of Thrones and things as well. It’s done for a reason.

Caleb: Sure.

Kristen: Yeah.

Rosie: If you’re going for a realistic world, you can’t give every character that you love a noble death. And I think Jo does that really well with the final battle. We don’t see the deaths of beloved characters for that very reason. But here, with Ron, he is such a main character and he is such an endearing character that to kill him off here, which – I’ll put my hand up – I genuinely thought, when I read the chapter before this one, that that was what happened…

Kristen: Oh, me too. [laughs]

Rosie: … before, obviously… you can’t stop reading at that point. You have to know he’s okay.

Kristen: Oh, yeah.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: If he had died here, then it would’ve been devastating to everyone and we would all be on Harry’s side when he goes charging off to kill Voldemort at the end of this book.

Kristen: Mhm.

Rosie: But then there would be no Book 7.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Drew: And so addressing in this comment about how Hermione would grow distant, I don’t know if I agree with that. I think it would bring her and Harry closer. Even if Harry is sulky and tries to push her away, I think she would try to hold on to Harry if that did happen.

Rosie: Maybe the loss of Ron is the only thing that would’ve actually made Harmony happen. [laughs]

Kristen: Yes. Exactly. [laughs]

Caleb: Yes, that was some of the comments for last week’s episode that people on the main site were talking about that.

Rosie: Sure. Okay, well, Hufflepug is our next comment, and it says,

“I think it’s important to consider how the other deaths in the series would have played out if she had killed Ron. We should assume that Dumbledore would have died at the same point because that ended up being really important to how the rest of the series played out. I don’t think she would have wanted to kill two major characters that are loved by the readers in the same book, at least not until the seventh book when it’s more realistic and expected for a lot of characters to die. It would make Half-Blood Prince really shocking and depressing. I think Ron would have died in Deathly Hallows instead. I see a fitting death for Ron as a heroic one near the very end of the last book because otherwise, it would have been way too hard for Harry and Hermione to continue the hunt for Horcruxes with that grief laying over them. Some deaths in the series have been motivators for positive change, but Ron dying would be several steps too far because losing a best friend is much harder than losing a classmate or a headmaster (I’m not saying those two deaths weren’t sad – it just would have been a whole different experience for Harry and Hermione). They could have succeeded in finishing their hunt for Horcruxes without him, but Ron’s death in the middle of the last book or even earlier in the series would have made the series even more focused on grief than it already is, which would lead to a really long, heavy, and sad final book. Did J.K Rowling kill Fred as a substitute for killing Ron?”

What do you guys think?

Caleb: Yeah. I mean, it definitely would’ve been a very different book. I was trying to think what it really would be like if he had died as far as the Horcrux because Ron isn’t… he’s not gone for the whole search, but he’s gone for a pretty significant portion of the Horcrux search.

Kristen and Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: And they still have to press on. And in some ways, I would say it’s almost harder for them and the way it happens in Book 7 because they’re having to deal with it immediately, and if he would’ve died here, they would’ve had a little more time to work through it and be more determined to keep going.

Kristen: I think it would’ve been harder for me to get through the last book knowing Ron was dead.

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Yeah. I think his absence during the Horcrux hunt actually provides some hope for them in a very weird, twisted way. They don’t consciously acknowledge the fact that they’re just waiting for Ron to come back or that they’re working in order to fix their relationship with Ron. But I think if the departure had been more permanent, they definitely wouldn’t have gone about things in the same way. Knowing that Ron is safe at the Burrow with the rest of the Weasleys is comforting for them, and I think it’s actually quite shocking when they find out that he’s actually been chasing them the whole time rather than being safe at home.

[Kristen laughs]

Rosie: So knowing that he’s safe allows them the freedom to go out and carry on their adventure, but if he had been dead then it would be almost impossible for them to carry on in the same way. In terms of the other characters, I don’t know if I agree that she wouldn’t want to kill two major characters in the same book. It would definitely make the seventh one a lot sadder. But then she kills Hedwig really early on…

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: … so we know that’s how it was always set up to be. Yeah, I don’t know. And I think… we’ve already seen the death of Sirius and the death of Cedric, so having the death of Ron here would just be another stepping stone in that grief. But yeah, the best friend thing definitely would be incredibly hard for them to deal with.

Drew: Do we think it would have affected Harry’s relationship with the Weasleys and affect their role in the war against Voldemort if he had died at this point? Because you think of Harry’s main connection to the Weasleys at this point anyway is Ron, and so would he have grown apart from them or would they still play a huge role in Book 7?

Caleb: I think that may have depended on how it would have affected Harry and Ginny’s relationship. I don’t know how that would happen.

Kristen: I still see them being close and maybe even closer because he’s still been a part of the family for so long, it seems.

Drew and Rosie: Yeah.

Kristen: I don’t think they’d be like, “Well, my son is dead; you’re his best friend so get out of here, too.” I think they’d still welcome him into their family.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: I think it would be the other way around. They would welcome him, but he would distance himself because he would feel guilty that he didn’t save Ron.

Kristen: Yeah, I can see that.

Caleb: Right. Yeah.

Kristen: Mhm. Definitely.

Caleb: Mhm. Yeah.

Rosie: Okay. Well, our next comment is from Casey L and it says,

“I think if there was any place to kill Ron, it was in Sirius'[s] place at the end of Order of the Phoenix. Here is a bad time because Harry has to get Slughorn’s memory, and anytime during Deathly Hallows is bad because it distracts from the [H]orcrux hunt. Killing him in Order gives a similar emotional impact as Sirius'[s] death, and it allows other characters – Neville, for example, or maybe Ginny – to be brought forward. Or maybe even a more minor character – maybe Dean Thomas with his storyline could have been brought into the story if Ron [were] killed.”

Caleb: That’s fair. I’m always very surprised that we only get one death out of the Department of Mysteries battle, and that’s not even a real death. He dies but it’s not a battle-induced death specifically. It’s just Bellatrix shoving him through the Veil.

Kristen: Yeah.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: So yeah, I would think that’s a good point.

Rosie: And Harry went into such a depression after that that Ron’s death would have been an equal depression to Sirius, I think.

Kristen: Oh geez, yeah.

Rosie: Yeah, it would make sense.

Drew: Yeah, and I think it would have caused him to not go back to Hogwarts this year and go ahead and start fighting. I think it could have given him motivation to go ahead and step out and be a rogue agent like he was in the last book. I don’t know, that’s just what I think. I think it would be too hard for him to return to Hogwarts if Ron had died in that scene.

Rosie: Our final comment comes from YoRufusOnFire, which I just love.

[Everybody laughs]

Rosie: And they say,

“I have to say, I’m on the fence about this. I personally would think this is a terrible place to kill Ron. However, taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture I don’t think that the story would change all that much. I mean, it would definitely change, but the outline of the story would be the same, but it would be a completely depressing book. I really believe that Ron is the glue to the trio. Without him, especially in Deathly Hallows, we still [see] Harry and Hermione […] go on, but they are a hallowed version on themselves. The chapters Ron is missing are empty and depressing. We see that without Ron, Harry and Hermione grow distant. The only reason they keep going is the hope that Ron will come back. But if Ron died, I think that they would press on, but later Hermione would just be too overcome with sorrow that she would leave the search, and Harry would go it alone. The only thing that I think would change drastically in this book, at least, is [the] fact that Harry would go balls to the wall ape-shit on Draco…”

[Kristen and Caleb laugh]

Rosie: [continues]

“… when he finds out that Draco was behind the whole scheme with the poison to kill Dumbledore and kills Ron instead. I think we might have had a third death in this book. And then, that opens a whole other can of worms. What would [have] happen[ed] to the series if Draco [had] died?”

Caleb: Well, if Draco would have died, Harry would have ended up dying because Narcissa wouldn’t have saved him.

Rosie: That’s true.

Kristen: Mhm.

Drew: And I would say one of the things I love about the Harry Potter series is the redemption you get from the Snape character and the Draco character at the end of the series, how she really redeems their character. And that is true that if he really had succeeded in killing Ron, it would be harder to redeem his character…

Rosie: Definitely. Yeah.

Drew: … at the end, yeah. I never thought about that, but yeah. Definitely agree with this comment.

Caleb: It’s hard to say… I don’t know if I agree that Ron is the glue of the trio. I think it’s hard to say any of them are the glue, but if I had to… because my instinct is to say Hermione is, but then in this book we obviously see her unwilling to move past any issues with Ron until after some time has passed. So I definitely don’t see Ron as the glue though, because… I don’t know – this is a personal thing – but I have so much trouble with him leaving Harry and Hermione in Deathly Hallows.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: So it’s hard for me to say he’s the glue.

Rosie: They all need each other. There’s no one way to define it.

Caleb: Sure. Yeah.

Kristen: Oh yeah, definitely.

Rosie: The thing I was thinking of was the Horcrux hunt and the fact that Ron destroys that Horcrux. Would that Horcrux have been able to have been destroyed if Ron hadn’t been there?

Caleb: Maybe.

Rosie: Did it absolutely have to be him that destroyed that locket? Or not the locket… what was it? It was the locket.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kristen: Mhm.

Rosie: Yeah, okay.

Drew: I’m trying to think which one he…

Kristen: Yes, they were wearing it.

Rosie: Mhm.

Rosie: As that affected him so much, it seemed very personal to him that that locket was whispering his insecurities the whole time.

Caleb: Yep. I don’t know, it probably wouldn’t have been the same outcome there for sure.

Rosie: Interesting. The whole thing would be very different, so we should be very grateful that Ron stays alive after this one particular scene. [laughs] So thinking about death in a very… lighthearted way, this past week has seen Sabriel Day, which some of you may know about. It is another beloved book series of mine, which is the Abhorsen series by Garth Nix, an Australian author. And that book series is all about necromancy and battling death and bringing people back from the dead and all of that kind of thing, which luckily we don’t have to do with Ron here. But it has an amazing audiobook, which is read by Tim Curry. So if any of you are interested in all of these kind of interesting twists and turns of death and what we can do to try and redeem ourselves on our way into the afterlife, then that is definitely an audiobook I would recommend.

Caleb: And if you’re interested in an audiobook like that, the place to stop at is Audible because Audible is the best place for all of your audio downloading needs. And right now, Audible has a really great special offer for all of our US and Canadian listeners. They can visit our unique link, created specifically for them, and get a free audio download today. All you have to do is go to audiblepodcast.com/open.

Kristen: You can also download it using Audible’s listener program. Basically you purchase book credit at a super low monthly rate, and you can use it at any time for any product that Audible offers.

Caleb: With over 150,000 titles you have a lot of options. Head over to audiblepodcast.com/open and start downloading directly to your computer for easier listening on burned CDs, MP3 players, and even your iPad, iPhones, or Androids. Again, the website made just for you is audiblepocast.com/open. So visit audiblepocast.com/open for your free download today.

Kristen: All right, let’s dive into Chapter 19.

[Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19 intro begins]

[Sound of Quidditch crowd]

Harry: McLaggen!

Luna: Chapter 19.

Harry: Give Peakes back his bat and get back to the goalposts!

Luna: “Elf Tales.”

[Sound of Harry getting hit by Bludger]

[Half-Blood Prince Chapter 19 intro ends]

Kristen: We start off in the hospital wing with Ron, who is surrounded by his loved ones; Hagrid comes to visit and mentions a fight between two professors; Harry’s obsession with Malfoy has increased to stalker-ish; we have a hilariously commentated Quidditch match that lands Harry in the hospital wing; and then we end it off with a visit from our favorite house-elves. So I guess the first point I really have is that Ron is alive, which I remember reading the first time and really thinking that he had died.

Rosie: Yeah.

[Kristen laughs]

Rosie: She just wrote it so convincingly.

Kristen: Yeah.

Rosie: It’s just horrific.

Caleb: It’s the perfect set-up, too, right? Because you have the small scene where he’s been inflicted with this love potion. Oh, they fixed that. But wait, now he’s actually about to die.

Kristen: Yeah, now he’s really dying.

Rosie: Now it’s serious.

Drew: I don’t remember feeling that way. It’s been so long since… I read it right when it first came out. But did we know that somebody was going to die in this book? Were there any hints about that?

Kristen: I thought so, yes. Yeah, we knew somebody was, so I think that’s why I was like, “Oh no, it’s Ron!”

Rosie: And that’s why the whole famous, people coming out of the bookstores, having read the last couple of pages and shouting, “Dumbledore dies!” is because we knew that someone was going to, so people were looking for it. But yeah, I [was] totally convinced it was Ron. I was like, “No, he can’t die!”

Kristen: I know. Tears were already forming in my eyes, and I hadn’t even finished that page. I was like, “I just have to go on to the next one,” and then I was like, “Oh!”

Rosie: Yeah. Luckily, she doesn’t leave us waiting.

Kristen: Oh, no. Thank heavens. So then we have… Ron is, of course, in the hospital wing, surrounded by all of his family, and Fred and George are there, talking about buying Zonko’s Shop but realizing that that’d be a waste of money since all the children aren’t allowed to go into Hogsmeade. And then we also have them discussing how Ron was actually poisoned in thinking that maybe Slughorn is a Death Eater. Did you guys ever think that he would have been a Death Eater?

Caleb: I don’t think I ever suspected him, but rereading it now, it made me wonder if I should have been more suspicious the first time I read it because it is pretty weird that Slughorn is so unable to handle the situation and that Harry has to rush to save Ron. And why else would Slughorn be so slow to react and even have some involvement?

Kristen: I felt kind of the same way you did.

Rosie: I think I was totally sold on his ineptness. He’s a very good teacher, and he’s very good at his potions and all that kind of thing, but I think he is very bad at handling stressful situations, and I think we’ve seen that on a number of occasions, so yeah, I was totally sold on the fact that he just froze at this point and was completely incapable of doing anything, so I never really thought that he might be a Death Eater, even though he’s a Slytherin, so yeah.

Drew: Yeah, I agree.

Rosie: So it’s quite nice to be sold on someone’s innocence for a change in Slytherin.

Caleb: About Fred and George coming and the Zonko’s thing, doesn’t that seem like an unfinished…? It just seems so dissatisfying. Fred and George are in Hogsmeade to buy Zonko’s. It seems like there should be more there. Because all of a sudden, they’re just there in the hospital wing, and it’s later, they explain they’re going to buy Zonko’s, but then nothing comes of that.

Rosie: I think it’s just an excuse for them being there.

Caleb: I just feel like I wanted more from that. Did Jo really just make that up to give an excuse to put Fred and George there? Because is it really important for them to be in the hospital wing? I don’t know.

Kristen: Yeah. Because I mean, they could have come to the hospital wing, hearing that their brother was poisoned and almost killed. Your family members would come no matter what, so why put in that they were already in town? No, that’s true.

Caleb: Because I don’t think we get anything else later in the series of them trying to buy Zonko’s or do anything in Hogsmeade, do we?

Rosie: No, once they know that the kids aren’t there, then they…

Kristen: No, not that I can recall.

Rosie: It does make you wonder… I mean, the only other person we see [who] keeps cropping up in unlikely places because of watching what’s going on is Tonks, and it makes you wonder if they were there for another Order-y reason.

Kristen: Huh. All right. So then we have Hagrid, who comes to visit Ron, and we get a quick mention of how Aragog isn’t doing well. But he also mentions… and Harry finds this very interesting… is that Hagrid has overheard Dumbledore and Snape arguing over something that Snape doesn’t want to do anymore. I don’t know about you guys, but I just realized what the fight was over, and it’s pretty like a blonde moment of [mine].

[Rosie laughs]

Kristen: But yeah, as many times as I’ve read this book in detail, “Oh, that’s what they were fighting over.” [laughs]

Drew: Well, this scene reminds me… I know circle theory – this would be Book 2 – but this… the previous chapter and this chapter remind me so much of Book 1. And as I was reading, I actually made a list of a lot the parallels between this scene, this chapter, the previous one and Book 1. They talked about the bezoar, which was mentioned in [the] first one. But really, when they’re talking about when Hagrid let something slip about Snape, that just reminded me so much of Book 1 when he let something slip about Snape. And also, the fact that they’re suspecting one of their teachers of, I guess, foul play or being in league with Lord Voldemort or whatever, I just couldn’t stop writing down all these different things that reminded me of Book 1 in this scene.

Rosie: Yeah it’s very, “I shouldn’t have said that. I should not have said that.”

[Kristen laughs]

Drew: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much.

Caleb: Also, didn’t it say…? Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t it say that Hagrid was reading to Aragog?

Kristen: Oh. I don’t remember.

Caleb: When he says that he was with Aragog in the forest, does he…? I need to get my book. Maybe I read it over that fast. But if that is true, I really need to know more about him reading to Aragog.

Rosie: What kind of books would Aragog like?

Caleb: Yeah, right? I want to make sure I’m not making this up. I need to find it.

Rosie: It’s going to be the Shelob sequence in Lord of the Rings.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Kristen: [in a Southern accent] Yep, I’ve been reading to him.

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: Yeah. See? What, Hagrid? You are just some sort of human.

Kristen: Yep.

Caleb: I really want to know what he’s reading to Aragog.

Kristen: Charlotte’s Web? [laughs]

Caleb: There you go. Sadly, the end is…

Kristen: The same ending. [laughs] And then we have… I guess my next point is Harry’s still obsession with Malfoy. He checks the Marauder’s Map everywhere he goes. He even takes time to sneak off to go to the bathroom just to check his map to see where Malfoy is, which is so creepy.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: I wonder if other students see Harry wandering off. Well, I guess they don’t see him carrying the map, but if someone did happen to see him just rushing into the bathroom, in a stall, staring at a map.

Kristen: That’s the fifth time Harry has gone to the bathroom in an hour.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Kristen: Always pulling out that map. And I mean…

Rosie: Malfoy used to be in so many of his classes. He was in Defense Against the Dark Arts and everything with him, wasn’t he?

Kristen: Yeah.

Rosie: Is it just Potions now?

Caleb: I think so.

Kristen: I believe so, yeah.

Caleb: Maybe Defense Against the Dark Arts?

Rosie: Yeah.

Kristen: Yeah, but it still goes from so many classes together to now so few. And even Harry loves Quidditch so much, but he sees Malfoy walking away from the Quidditch pitch and the castle and everything, and he still wants to go, and even though he loves Quidditch so much, he’s so tempted just to go follow Malfoy and see where he is that he’s going to miss the game that he loves because he is so obsessed with Malfoy right now.

Rosie: I love that it’s Ginny [who] calls him out on this as well. She asks him where he was, and he’s like, “Why does it matter?” Just gives you a little glimpse into how she’s going to sort him out in the future. He’ll be fine.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Someone has got to keep him on track.

Kristen: All right. Next we have the Quidditch game, and to Harry’s surprise, he hears a familiar voice. And it is Luna commentating, and she seems a little more interested in the shapes of the clouds than the actual Quidditch game going on, but I think that’s amazing because I love that character.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Poor McGonagall.

Rosie: And McGonagall’s reaction…

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: She’s having a rough time this year, dealing with all the wild and aloof commentators.

Rosie: It’s nice to have just such a domestic problem. She must like just having to deal with odd commentating rather than having to deal with life-threatening things all the time. It is that light relief chapter, really, isn’t it? It’s just, yeah, lots of stuff that’s just breaking the tension and apologizing for almost killing Ron. [laughs]

Kristen: And then you have… McLaggen is trying to be the boss of the team and ends up taking somebody else’s Beater [bat] and ends up hitting Harry in the head with a Bludger, which…

Rosie: Ouch.

Kristen: Once again, Harry finds himself in the hospital wing.

Rosie: And Ron’s reaction is just, “Nice of you to drop in.”

[Caleb and Kristen laugh]

Caleb: I love it.

Rosie: “Thanks for joining me, mate.”

Caleb: Favorite line of the chapter.

[Rosie laughs]

Kristen: Yes. That was perfect.

Drew: I think that whole scene is brilliant writing because I actually had to go back when I was rereading this earlier this week. I had to go back and reread those couple paragraphs where they go from him being on the Quidditch pitch to the hospital wing because it’s such a fluid transition. Because you really think, “Okay, well where is he now?” But then you figure it out. That’s just great how she did that.

Rosie: And it shows that we’re really in Harry’s head for the duration as well. We almost drop out of consciousness, just as Harry does, and then suddenly we’re waking up to Ron’s beautiful face. [laughs]

Kristen: Yes, his red hair.

Caleb: So what do we think happened after Harry gets knocked out of the Quidditch match? Because they’re down a player. I don’t think we’ve ever seen a match follow through where a player is lost in the middle and how they deal with that.

Rosie: Especially the Seeker, yeah.

Kristen: Well, what were the points?

Rosie: Ginny must have to take it.

Caleb: Because they kicked their butt. It was really lopsided. It didn’t end right then. Hufflepuffs…

Kristen: 320 to 60.

Rosie: Because teams… I think they’re supposed to have substitutes, people [who] would sub on, but Harry being the captain – and also, being Harry and being obsessed with Draco and things – he doesn’t have a back-up team or anything. He’s only got a few people.

Caleb: Yeah, so did anyone play Seeker, or what happened?

Rosie: I think Ginny would have stepped up to take control of the rest of the team, but there was no way they were going to win that match without a Seeker, without Harry.

Caleb: Yeah. Because it seems like Ginny would play Seeker.

Rosie: Yeah. They just have to carry on playing until the other team catches the Snitch.

Caleb: Yeah, and Hufflepuff ran the board.

Rosie: Woo-hoo!

[Kristen laughs]

Caleb: Yo, you’ve got to chill, though. You have two Gryffindors on today.

[Caleb and Kristen laugh]

Drew: But do we really think they have alternates at Hogwarts? Because I know they mentioned, I think, with the World Cup in Book 4, but we never actually see them using alternates at Hogwarts.

Rosie: No, not mid-game, I don’t think.

Caleb: Yeah. For all of the rules that Jo has fleshed out for Quidditch, we have no idea how alternates work for House Quidditch.

Rosie: But this is another brilliant example of her avoiding writing a Quidditch game.

Kristen: Yes, exactly. [laughs]

Caleb: So true. Gosh.

Rosie: The game happened off-screen, and Ron tells us all about how amazing the commentary was, and yeah, it was a brilliant game because Hufflepuff won by an amazing amount, but…

Caleb: That’s what Jo was after. That was her underlying motive. She just wanted to give Hufflepuff a shining moment.

Kristen: Yeah! [laughs]

Rosie: We have to have something, come on.

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Kristen: So she takes Harry out of the game so you all can have something.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: The only way we were going to win. Never mind.

Drew: Do you think that’s the reason why we don’t have the whole game? Because I seem to remember a quote from Rowling saying something about how she would have stopped writing Quidditch earlier in the series, but she realized that people loved it so much. So I guess she didn’t want to spend so much time on it, but this is kind of a good medium. Only see half of the game…

Rosie: Oh, definitely. Yeah.

Drew: … but still get on to later action.

Rosie: Yeah, she really doesn’t like writing it, and I think… yeah, this is the perfect compromise to have Harry be injured. [laughs]

Drew: Again.

Rosie: [laughs] Again. At least he didn’t lose an entire arm this time.

Drew: True.

Rosie: He’s just got a bit of a bump on the head.

Caleb: We’re making progress.

Rosie: Yeah.

Kristen: Just a cracked skull.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Kristen: All right, so Harry is in the hospital wing, and he’s talking with Ron and… I can’t remember, is this the part where he talks about Lavender? Or was that earlier on?

Caleb: Well, this is when he…

Kristen: Says how annoying she…

Caleb: Oh no, I think it… now I’m not sure.

Kristen: I can’t remember because I forgot about that point.

Rosie: I think he mentions it before heading to the Quidditch game.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kristen: Oh, okay. That’s what it was.

Rosie: Yeah, he asks Ron to stop pretending to be asleep when she comes in and all those kind of things.

Caleb: God, what a Ron thing to do.

Kristen: I know.

Rosie: He’s so awkward with girls. [laughs]

Kristen: I mean, it’s so odd. “Well, he’s always awake when I’m there, but uhh…” [laughs]

Caleb: Wait, okay. So actually on that because I was thinking, do we think Harry did that on purpose to Lavender? Or is Harry just as aloof and doesn’t realize the effect it’s going to have?

Rosie: They’re both idiots.

[Caleb laughs]

Kristen: Yeah.

Rosie: They are just both idiots.

[Drew and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: I think so, too.

Kristen: Yeah, I don’t think… [laughs]

Caleb: Because if it was me, I would have said it just to have that little effect on her…

Kristen: Yeah, exactly.

Caleb: … [unintelligible] Harry’s shoes, as much as he dislikes Lavender.

Kristen: Mhm.

Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: [laughs] But I don’t think he realizes what he does.

Kristen: “Maybe this will leave her alone. She’ll leave me alone if I say this.” [laughs]

Rosie: Yeah, I think if it was Hermione that said it, then it would [definitely be] pointed.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: But yeah, Harry is just…

[Kristen laughs]

Rosie: … completely oblivious.

Kristen: As they’re in the hospital wing, we see Kreacher and Dobby again. Harry realizes, with his Malfoy obsession, that there is a way that he can find out what Malfoy is doing all the time. So he summons Kreacher, and Dobby is with him, and they are fighting on the ground, which I’m sure would be an interesting sight to see.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Do we even know why they’re fighting when they show up?

Kristen: Yeah, because Kreacher said something rude about Harry.

Caleb: Okay. Yeah, that’s what it was. Slipped my mind.

Kristen: Or something like that. Insulted him. [laughs]

Caleb: I was kind of hoping that there was something going on beforehand.

Kristen: Like a legit [laughs] problem?

Caleb: Like Kreacher dropped a pot or something…

[Kristen laughs]

Caleb: … and Dobby was really unhappy about it.

Kristen: “You took one of my socks!” [laughs]

Caleb: Because you know Dobby runs that kitchen.

[Kristen laughs]

Caleb: He runs the kitchen at Hogwarts. [laughs]

Rosie: It’s probably something that Kreacher would have insulted Winky, or something, and Dobby would have protected her honor.

Caleb: Yeah, there you go.

Kristen: Aww, that’s sweet.

Rosie: There you go.

Kristen: Very sweet.

[Rosie laughs]

Kristen: So once they pull them apart and they’ve stop fighting, Harry gives Kreacher the instruction to follow Malfoy and give them as many updates as he can. And of course, Dobby wants to help him in any way that he is able to. And Harry tries to make sure there are no loopholes for Kreacher so he won’t be able to tell Malfoy what he’s up to.

Caleb: That scene isn’t in the movie, is it?

Kristen: No.

Rosie: No. There are no house-elves.

Kristen: Definitely not.

Caleb: I wish it would have been…

Kristen: Mhm.

Caleb: … because she describes this so well. You exactly know the look on Kreacher’s face as he’s painfully trying to grasp at some loophole…

Rosie: Yeah.

Kristen: Mhm.

Caleb: … and the surrender to it. [laughs]

Kristen: And his bowing where his nose touches his shoes and stuff. I wish it was in the movie.

Drew: I don’t know, I just think Harry is… I would not trust Kreacher with this task. I feel like there… if he thinks hard enough, he can find some loophole to tip him off. I would just get Dobby to do it.

Kristen: Could Kreacher tell somebody in Malfoy’s family to then…?

Drew: That’s what I was thinking. Something like tell someone else to tell them or something.

Rosie: I think Harry says that he cannot contact Draco in any way. So that would be included in there.

Kristen: So that would include his family.

Rosie: He can’t leave a message through someone else.

Caleb: Indirectly.

Kristen: Okay. Gotcha.

Caleb: Yeah. I did wonder in this because I realized, especially in this moment, that both of the house-elves that Harry has these stronger relationships [that] connect him to the Malfoys in a very significant way. So it made me wonder which thing Jo thought up first, if she thought of one of the house-elves’ stories and then found a way to thread the Malfoys through them or if it was the reverse, that she originally thought of the Malfoy connection and then sort of put the house-elves through that story.

Rosie: Well, the whole of Chamber of Secrets is really Dobby’s story, isn’t it? Right from the very beginning, he’s the one pulling the strings and dropping cakes on people’s heads and making a mess of everything. [laughs]

Caleb: Right, but here, we start to see how important it is that… It could be any house-elf to follow Draco in this book, right? But it isn’t. It’s these house-elves that are connected with Malfoy in some way, which isn’t important here, but Dobby is, obviously, important in the next book with the Malfoys. Not any house-elf would be as familiar with the Malfoy manor, so I wonder if that’s something Jo planned all along or if it’s just something [that] happened along the way.

Rosie: I think it’s also important that Harry does call upon Kreacher and proves that he trusts him in some way in this sequence so that the relationship is repaired in some way, ready for Harry actually going to Grimmauld Place in the next book. Because if you hadn’t had this sequence of him giving him tasks that he can do and getting results in a positive way, then the relationship would be in no way near where it needs to be for Kreacher to trust him with Regulus’s story. And then they would never have found the locket.

Caleb: I did think it’s funny that… I couldn’t remember how often Jo does this, where we don’t actually get the point of the title until the very last few paragraphs of the chapter.

Kristen: Yeah, that’s very true.

Caleb: It seems that does happen somewhat frequently in the series. And I don’t know if I’ve read many books where that’s the case.

Rosie: No. And this chapter title always confuses me as well because I read the pun rather than the actual intended meaning. So “Elf Tails” as in the elves are telling us stories rather than “Elf Tails” as in that they’re tailing the people, so…

Kristen: Just got that.

Rosie: So whenever I’m… yeah.

[Kristen and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: So whenever I’m looking at chapter titles and trying to work out something that’s happening in this chapter, I’m looking for Dobby and Kreacher reporting on what they’ve seen. And I go to this chapter, thinking, “Okay, the elves are telling tales,” and just… Yeah, that’s not what happens in this scene at all. [laughs] So yeah, it’s a title that I’m not sure how successful it is. But I do like the pun, so yeah, it’s good. [laughs]

Caleb: I don’t know what else she would have titled it because, like we said, it’s bits and pieces throughout the chapter.

Kristen: Definitely, yeah. Yeah, that would be an interesting…

Caleb: I guess it would probably be titled something with the Quidditch and not significant enough to hold the title.

Kristen: Yeah, I agree.

Rosie: Or something about Draco, but then that’s putting too much attention on him as well. And yeah, it’s a difficult chapter, really, this one. It’s very much repairing the problems [laughs] of [the] last chapter and just bridging into the next bit. So this chapter is a total light relief filler, and as always, the best light moments come from Luna. So our Podcast Question of the Week this week is, how exactly did she get that job of commentator at the Quidditch match? What are the requirements for the role, and who else did McGonagall try first? Because let’s face it, Luna was probably her last resort. Let us know your thoughts on our site at the Podcast Question of the Week thread.

Kristen: And of course, we’d like to thank our guest, Drew, for being on this week. Thank you so much, Drew.

Drew: Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s been great.

Caleb: And if you would like to be on the show just like Drew, head over to our “Be on the Show!” page, which you can find at alohomora.mugglenet.com. If you have a set of Apple or similar headphones, you’re all set – no fancy equipment needed. And while you’re there, you can check our website to download a ringtone for free.

Rosie: You can also contact us in a variety of different ways. So if you’re on Twitter, you can find us at @AlohomoraMN. If you’re on Facebook, it’s facebook.com/openthedumbledore. On Tumblr, we are mnalohomorapodcast. And on Skype, you can call us [at] 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287. And don’t forget, you’ve also got our audioBoom, which you can find directly on our site at alohomora.mugglenet.com. It’s free – you just need a microphone, but we do ask that you keep it under 60 seconds, please, so that we can play it on the show.

Kristen: And don’t forget to check out our store where we have House shirts, Desk!Pig, Mandrake Liberation Front, and of course, Minerva is my homegirl, and so many more other options.

Caleb: Also, make sure to check out our smartphone app, which, as far as we know, is availble all over the Muggle world, [and] possibly the magical world, though the technology may be a little difficult to work. Prices may vary depending on location. The app has things like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much more. Well, that’s going to do it for this week’s episode of Alohomora!

[Show music begins]

Caleb: I’m Caleb Graves.

Kristen: I’m Kristen Keys.

Rosie: And I’m Rosie Morris. Thank you for listening to Episode 137 of Alohomora!

Kristen: Open the Dumbledore!

[Show music continues]