Transcript – Episode 85
[Show music begins]
Noah Fried: This is Episode 85 of Alohomora! for May 24, 2014.
[Show music continues]
Noah: Hey everyone, I’m Noah Fried.
Michael Harle: I’m Michael Harle.
Laura Reilly: I’m Laura Reilly. And here today, we have a special guest. Her name is Kara Kennedy. So say hi, Kara!
Kara Kennedy: Hey, guys! Hey, everybody! I’m so excited to be here.
Laura: First, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself? I know you’re also a podcast host for another fandom that so many Harry Potter fans like, so…
Kara: Yeah, I am a host on the Doctor Who podcast The Impossible Girls. You can find us on iTunes or Twitter – we’re @tigpodcast. And we’re basically… it’s me and my two best friends, and we do Doctor Who from a female perspective, so…
Laura: That’s awesome.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: It’s all banana.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: So what did you think about those news stories that came out recently about… I don’t know. Was it the producer or somebody up there in the Doctor Who universe who had said some negative things about women?
Kara: Oh, Steven Moffat?
Noah: Maybe. He was saying something about how…
Kara: Yes.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: … ladies just love to watch Benedict Cumberbatch do pretty much anything.
Kara: Oh, yeah. That’s a long… I don’t know. It’s been discussed a lot in the Doctor Who fandom back and forth on Steven Moffat’s attitudes toward women. Yeah, I… we totally keep a neutral attitude on our podacst about it, but I don’t know. I like him as a writer, so I try to stay from the comments he makes in the media.
Laura: And back to Harry Potter, would you like to tell us what your Hogwarts house is of choice?
Kara: Sure. I am a Slytherin.
Laura and Michael: Ooh.
Laura: Do we have everyone here, then?
Kara: Ah, do we?
Laura: Wait, no, you’re a Hufflepuff too, Michael.
Kara, Michael, and Noah: Aww.
Michael: Dude, Noah, one of us has to go get resorted into Ravenclaw.
[Kara and Laura laugh]
Noah: Well, actually, I was a Hatstall, so I could be counted as Ravenclaw.
Kara: Oh, really?
Michael: Oh, nice! Okay.
Kara: Cool.
Michael: Perfect. So we kind of have all of them.
Kara: Almost. [laughs]
Michael: We were so close.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: Just my top half, though.
[Kara, Laura, and Michael laugh]
Michael: Oh.
Laura: All right. So as a reminder, you guys, this week we’re going to be reading Chapter 8, which is “The Hearing,” so make sure to be fully caught up on that in order to fully enjoy this episode.
Michael: But before…
Noah: But you don’t even have to listen to it. You could just listen to us speak and spiel about it.
[Kara, Laura, and Michael laugh]
Laura: Sure.
Michael: But before we go on to Chapter 8, we’re going to take a look back at Chapter 7 of Order of the Phoenix, “The Ministry of Magic,” and our discussion from last week and the responses you guys had for us. There were a lot of really interesting comments this week, actually a lot about quite a few things we didn’t catch. The first one is from the main site from Elise Roberts, and this one was one of the things we did talk about. It was in response to the Ministry’s wand security check, and we were discussing on the last show how we were surprised that Eric, the security guard, does not actually take people’s wands away when he checks them into the Ministry, but Elise pointed out,
“I think they were checking their wands in the Ministry of Magic as a way to prove their identity, the way the goblins demanded to see Bellatrix’s wand in ‘Deathly Hallows’, when Hermione (with Ron and Harry) tried to enter the Lestranges’ vault. The wand functions as a sort of ID in the wizarding world. So if someone would use Polyjuice Potion to look like someone else, he wouldn’t have that person’s wand. And if he would have it, then its allegiance would have changed, and it would point to another master than it should while being checked. At least, that’s the answer I came up with,”
said Elise. So I thought that was a particularly clever observation.
Laura: I just… I wonder if it’s true that it is the wizard form of ID, how that works in a scenario. Like how Ron had a hand-me-down wand originally.
Kara: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Does the wand get reregistered because it’s changed allegiance or whatever to him, or is it still – I don’t remember which brother’s it was – that person’s wand, identification-wise? So…
Noah: That’s a good point. Maybe the wand changes itself in a little movement or something. Like there’s an extra etch on the side or something.
Michael: Well, and there’s of course the big one we know with wands: When you win their allegiance, it’s usually by something rough and tumble. But I suppose it wouldn’t be… I imagine it would be equally logical or acceptable that a family member could pass a wand down to another family member. That seems to make sense, especially if the wnad is willingly given to that person.
Laura: Right.
Kara: Yeah, I think it’s like if it were given as a gift thing like, “Oh, happy birthday. Here’s your new wand.” At least for your 11th birthday, I think that would make sense, especially if you share the blood of that person, the DNA of that person. I think it would be more likley for the allegiance to change.
Michael: Yeah. Well, yeah, because we have seen an issue where some people have shared wands willingly that they aren’t related, which is of course Harry and Hermione in Deathly Hallows, and Harry notably says that the wand just does not work quite the same way. It works, but it’s not that great. So… and it’s…
Noah: Yeah, I think it’s really only the Elder Wand does that a dramatic switchover.
Kara and Michael: Yeah.
Noah: The other wands… it’s sort of this more ambigious turnover.
Michael: So… but I thought that was a really great point from Elise because we were all fretting last week about, “Why would they check your wand at security and then let you have it if you’re going for trial for using magic?”
[Kara laughs]
Michael: But… so that was a really interesting way of looking at it. And then there were some observations and things we didn’t catch. This one was from Elvis Gaunt with additional discussion from Subjective Unicorn over on the main site. And this was actually about the appearance of Boderick Bode. Elvis Gaunt said,
“We see Bode going to his workplace, the Department of Mysteries, and he is described as having a ‘sepulchral voice.’ Is that a foreshadowing of his death?”
Because I did look up the word “sepulchral,” and it is an unusual word to use because it, in the way that Rowling is using it…
Noah: It doesn’t bode will for Bode.
[Kara laughs]
Michael: Aha! Oh, there’s a lot of just tricks in his name and his appearances.
Laura: You know nothing is good in store for him.
[Kara laughs]
Michael: Oh, not at all because of course, when I looked up “sepulchral,” it can mean just “grim” or “gloomy,” but it also can relate to tombs and directly to death. Subjective Unicorn [said], though, in response to that,
“I think we actually see him being under the Imperius Curse here; that unblinking look of his gives us the hint on the curse.”
Noah: Ooh.
Michael: So that was…
Kara: That’s interesting because the sense I always got from it was just that he was supposed to be just kind of a creepy guy because…
Michael: That’s what I thought, too.
Kara: It kind of sets the tone because, obviously, the Department of Mysteries plays such a big role in this book that the people who work there are kind of creepy and mysterious themselves.
Michael: Yeah. I like that this… because the way he’s described he essentially kind of looks like Snape but…
[Kara laughs]
Michael: … if Snape hadn’t been fed for a long time.
[Kara laughs]
Michael: And I…
Kara: And showered.
Michael: … like that because…
Noah: “Feed me.”
Michael: … the Department of Mysteries workers don’t ever see the sun, so…
Kara: Mhm.
Michael: … they’re all the way down…
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: … at the lowest part of the Ministry. So…
Laura: I think, yeah, also, building off of what Kara said, I think it’s also just supposed to give us that impression that the Department of Mysteries… they’re not happy mysteries.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: There [are] grim things that they’re hiding.
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: Or if not grim, at least just…
Kara: Ominous.
Laura: … foreboding…
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: … if you will.
Michael: So… and…
Noah: Foreboding. Ha ha.
Michael: Yes, forebode.
Kara: Foreboding. [laughs]
Michael: Forebode-ing. But… and I believe, actually…
Laura: Ha.
Michael: I did check the timeline to see if I could get a sense… because that is one of the things actually that I am frequently confused on still when reading Order of the Phoenix, is the timeline of what’s going on with the Ministry employees as they’re offed and sent to Azkaban. Or…
Laura: Mhm.
Michael: And so on and so forth by the Death Eathers. But it would appear that Sturgis Podmore is actually the first one to be Imperiused by Lucius Malfoy. And Bode is a victim a little later, because he is the second attempt to get the prophecy, which goes horribly wrong. But we’ll of course get to that farther down the line. And our last set of comments comes first from a discussion started by AccioPotassium!, with additional discussion from Adam Klawitter, DolphinPatronus, again Elvis Gaunt, and MugglesinStMungos. And this is from the main site, and it’s actually in regards to Percy, who we’re going to encounter again this week. And AccioPotassium! noted that,
“The photograph in Arthur’s office depicts the entire Weasley family except for their newly promoted son, who seemed to leave the photograph once Arthur came into viewing distance. This is the first photograph we see [that] is capable of having independent movement for more than a couple of seconds. What makes it particularly interesting is that it seems to have the special ability to change to the current emotions of the family members, which makes it superior to that of the paintings of Hogwarts. How does this photograph work? Does it use similar magic to that of the clock at the Burrow, which tells the exact location of the family members? Or is it closer to the magical portraits of the wizarding world?”
Noah, I thought you might be interested in this particular discussion.
Noah: Yeah. I’m not sure. I think the portraits are such an interesting topic in these separate worlds. There [are] so many different dimensions. I don’t know if this is the same thing.
Michael: Mhm.
Noah: What do you think?
Michael: Well, because the portraits, they have to actually paint them.
Noah: Right.
Michael: Versus the photographs, which are actually taken in a live moment.
Kara: I think there’s an important…
Noah: Yeah, I think this goes, again, maybe in a very short way the photograph captures an essence of the person. But I don’t think they are as clearly defined as characters as in paintings.
Michael: Hmm.
Noah: Because the artist labors over the characters of those paintings. It gives them dimension to their character, and this is just a photograph. So…
Michael: Mhm.
Noah: It’s as if these characters probably run on loop. I mean, you could still probably play with them to some degree. But they’re more like a loop and less like their own entities, perhaps.
Michael: Mhm. What were you going to say, Kara?
Kara: Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it’s also important to note that a lot of the magical portraits at Hogwarts are of people who are dead, and obviously the photograph of the Weasley family, they’re all alive.
Michael: Hmm.
Kara: So I don’t know if that has something to do with it. It can pick up on their mental state at the time since they’re still in the physical world…
Michael: Hmm.
Kara: … and magical portraits are just capturing the imprint of someone when they were here but they are no longer.
Laura: That’s a good point because I’m trying to think back on portraits of living people, and the only one that I can think of is Lockhart.
Michael: Mhm.
Kara: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: I believe he had portraits of himself, unless I’m just remembering the film.
Michael: No, no.
Laura: I did a marathon this week.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: But yeah, and I believe that the portraits run off when… even the photographs as well, when… I don’t know if it was the pixies or something was happening.
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: So I think that’s a really interesting and probably accurate theory, that when it’s of a living person whether that be a portrait or a photograph it has more of a connection to build off on the person that’s who it’s of.
Michael: That’s really interesting because… I was thinking back to some of the earliest photographs we see, which were of Lily and James in the photobook that Hagrid gives to Harry. And…
Kara: Mhm.
Michael: … there’s definitely this kind of disconnect between reality and the current time in the photos because Lily and James are definitely still in the place they were in when that particular photograph was taken. They’re waving…
Noah: Yeah, it’s not like Harry could talk to them…
Michael: No.
Noah: … at each moment of his life…
Michael: Yeah.
Kara: Right.
Noah: … just holding a picture in his pocket. [laughs]
Michael: Mhm.
Kara: Mhm. Yeah.
Michael: So… but yeah, some very interesting theories about how the portraits versus the photographs work in the world. So I want to thank, of course, all the listeners again for sending in those fantastic comments. I wanted to shout out in particular to… so many of you comment now that I can’t actually shout out to all of you.
Noah: Oh.
[Kara laughs]
Michael: But I did want to shout out to those of you who did contribute some really great substantial points to the conversation and that would be ArchdukeSeverus, Claire Marie, dustcharm, Erin White, the head girl, MsCheeta1987, thegiantsquid, and Sycamore Combustion along with all of the comments that we read in the show today. Thank you all for your fantastic comments. And if you the listeners want to join in the discussion from the previous week, that is still open on both our main site and forum.
Noah: That’s an interesting name, Sycamore Combustion.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: I have a sycamore wand, actually. And it is given to combust every now and then.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: I’m always impressed by the names people are able to come up with. The extent of my username ability has always just been a combination of my names.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Hence I’m always impressed whenever people are able to think of something…
[Michael laughs]
Laura: … like AccioPotassium!
[Kara laughs]
Noah: PictureDimensionAndHandbag.
[Kara laughs]
Michael: I will forever stick with LupinPatronus. [laughs]
Noah: It’s good. And Lupin’s Patronus is [a] werewolf? Is that…
Michael: It’s just a wolf.
Kara: A wolf.
Michael: Yes.
Noah: Just a wolf.
Michael: Just a wolf, not a werewolf.
Kara: Yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Now was it always a wolf or was it just a wolf because he’s a werewolf?
Michael: I think it was always a wolf. Well, I mean, he couldn’t cast one before he was a werewolf.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: So…
Noah: Right. That would have been terrible foreshadowing.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: Very ironic. Anyway, I would like to now go into the responses to the Podcast Question of the Week last week. Here it is: “Between Snape, Lupin, Pettigrew, Kingsley, and many more characters, we see a great deal of double agents and moles throughout the series. In this chapter, Kingsley is working as a mole in the Ministry for the Order of the Phoenix, providing misinformation about the whereabouts of Sirius Black to the Ministry for the case he is leading. Is Kingsley a traitor to his employer? Or does his belief that the Ministry is doing the morally wrong thing negate him as a ‘traitor’? What about the other moles in the series, such as the most-complicated double agent of them all: Snape?” Our first comment is from Erin White. All right, so this has “traitor” in quotes.
“‘Traitor’ is a word that, like ‘selfish’, has gotten a not-completely-earned bad rap. ‘Traitor’ is only an aspersion from the perspective of the betrayed. Every time a group rises up against their government, they are ‘traitors’ to that government. That does not automatically mean they are wrong, bad, lacking in integrity, evil, etc. From the viewpoint of the Ministry, all of these people – Snape, Lupin, Kingsley – are traitors, because they are working against the Ministry’s practices. However, from the Order’s viewpoint, those practices are considered corrupt, and therefore, these people are heroes. They’re putting themselves in peril for the cause in which they believe.”
And just an added comment from Erin White:
“The true traitor in this tale is Peter Pettigrew. Neither side could really trust him, because he demonstrated that he wasn’t in it out of devotion to an ideal but out of simple self-preservation. He had no aspirations in life beyond his own survival. Ultimately, he was not loyal to anyone, merely obedient to the side he feared the most.”
Laura: I think that’s interesting… that reminds me – if I can dip into another fandom briefly – on Game of Thrones this week…
[Kara, Laura, and Michael laugh]
Noah: This is a Harry Potter show, Laura.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: This is a Harry Potter show. I won’t hear any of this. Just kidding, go on.
Laura: All right. Well, real quickly there’s a quote that I’m going to say loosely… I can’t remember exactly, but basically he was saying, “There are good and evil on both sides of every war.” And it basically was saying that everyone thinks that their own cause is right, and completely denouncing the other side as being evil is a bad frame of mind because it’s just not really taking everything… everyone’s view and perspective into consideration, so…
Kara: Yeah, that’s interesting.
Noah: Alas. We do it all the time.
Laura: … that reminded me of… what? Hmm?
Noah: Just we as a race of humans, we do that all the time.
Laura: Yeah, definitely.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: Well, that’s why… and I’ve said it before with Order of the Phoenix, but that’s why I really like Order of the Phoenix, is there is this… and we talked about this a lot last week, but that moral grayness that’s starting to creep into the series where it isn’t… we’re starting to see that all the people that we thought were perfectly good and put on a pedestal are not those people.
Laura: Right.
Michael: And vice versa. That perhaps people who are pure evil are not exactly pure evil.
Noah: “The world isn’t split up into good people and Death Eaters.”
[Kara laughs]
Laura: Literally I was just about to say that.
Michael: Except when they Apparate, because then it’s white and black and you know exactly who is good and who is evil.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Oh, movie. Going and undermining your point immediately.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: That’s why I had issues with Order of the Phoenix. David Yates! David Yates.
Michael: [laughs] Oh, Yates.
[Kara laughs]
Laura: We will get there.
Noah: We will get there. Next comment from QuibbleQuaffle. LupinPatronus, this one is for you.
Michael: Oh, yay.
Noah: [continues]
“I find it interesting that out of all those mentioned Lupin, [whom] I would say was the least successful spy from what we know about his mission with the werewolves, was unsuccessful because he was going in already being viewed as a traitor because he had tried to integrate with wizarding society. Interestingly Lupin is one of the few double agents I would describe as not being a traitor, because he was never on Greyback’s side in the first place, whereas Kingsley and Tonks worked at the Ministry before they were recruited into the Order, Snape and Regulus were Death Eaters before they betrayed Voldemort, etc. Pettigrew was James and Lily’s friend and a member of the Order before he became a spy for Voldemort. It’s not a betrayal unless there was once trust. Lupin is labelled a traitor to his kind right at the start of his mission; he is never accepted and therefore is never able to betray them.”
Michael: Hmm.
Kara: Hmm. That’s a good point.
Michael: That is a really good… I mean, the one thing I just, unfortunately, have to say is that we don’t have a really good sense of what Lupin is up to with the werewolves.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: That’s probably the most… one of the most in-shadow things we have issues with, with the Potter canon. And she didn’t even answer it in Lupin’s bio on Pottermore.
Noah: That’s unfortunate.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, so…
Noah: Where do they hang out? Where are they doing werewolf things?
Michael: Oh, I’m so baffled by the whole thing. Do they hang out specifically at the full moon as werewolves? Do they hang out as humans frequently?
Noah: Well, it’s like a mix because Greyback…
Laura: Sent out a group meetup message.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: “We’re meeting here.”
Noah: Greyback is in wolf mode a lot of the time. Even when he is human.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: So there has got to be some sort of mixed culture where they’re hanging out. They’re doing werewolf things in human form.
Michael: Well…
Noah: Going out by the moon, going out in nature, I’m sure, in between phases.
Michael: And going along with this idea that Lupin was never trusted by them, I’m just confused because I know he had to be at some point, but I still don’t know how because I don’t know how they wouldn’t have known who he was.
Noah: Yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: I mean, Lupin is not, perhaps, greatly known in wizarding circles, but he has made a name for himself to some degree. And along with his father who was prominent in the Ministry and his history with Greyback. I’m just… yeah, I’m very baffled by how Lupin…
Noah: What’s his history in the werewolf community? Maybe he was a leader there. We have no idea.
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
Noah: Offering an opposing side to Greyback.
Michael: Mhm. But I do… as muddy as this gets with the fact that we don’t have this backstory, I do appreciate the Lupin love that we’ve got here, QuibbleQuaffle.
[Laura laughs]
Michael: I always love when there’s Lupin love for the show, so…
Noah: And I put that in there knowing that you were going to be on this one.
Michael: Oh, it makes me so warm and snuggly.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: Next comment, from Padfoot42:
“I don’t think Kingsley is being a traitor to his employer. The way I thought of it is sort of like a person working for a local Muggle government in a city hall. If that person working for the government decides that in their spare time that they want to work for a political campaign that is for someone other than the person who currently holds the elected position of mayor, that doesn’t make him or her a traitor to the current mayor, rather, their interests don’t align outside of the workplace.”
That’s true, but clearly, Padfoot42, you have not worked in politics…
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: … because you can’t do that because then you’re done. [laughs]
Laura: It’s also the fact that Kingsley is actively feeding misinformation to his employer. He’s leading up a case that’s completely…
Noah: Right.
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: I don’t remember which country that he says Sirius Black was in, but he pulled it out of a hat, so…
Michael: Mhm.
Kara: Right.
Noah: It’s political, though. You’re either giving misinformation or you’re giving the truth, and if you give the truth, you’re fired.
Michael: Yeah, no. Well, and as also was pointed out, actually, by Sycamore Combustion on our main site last week, we do tend to… our main audience does tend to look at the Potter series through an American lens. These are the times when I wish Rosie was here because I think she can really can give us a good grasp on how British government works because it would be fascinating to see. I’d like to know… I feel like this wouldn’t fly in the British government.
Noah: Well, they’ve got so many different parties and they’re always arguing.
Kara and Michael: Yeah. [laugh]
Noah: But that’s probably… here’s it’s just…
Laura: All government everywhere.
Michael: Mhm. But I don’t know. I think Kingsley is still doing some noticeable double-crossing mole work here. It’s for a good cause, like the first comment you had. It’s not like he’s doing a bad thing. But he is betraying his employer. [laughs]
Kara: Yeah. And he’s not just being passive about it; he’s literally, like you said, actively leading them off the trail.
Michael: Mhm. Biting the hand that feeds.
Kara: So that’s interesting.
Noah: That’s a bit of both.
Michael: Speaking of that, does the Order of the Phoenix… weird question: Does the Order of the Phoenix pay? [laughs] I’m just curious.
Laura and Noah: No!
Michael: Okay.
Kara: Probably not.
Laura: It’s probably volunteer.
Kara: Yeah.
Noah: With Dumbledore at the head, he doesn’t even show up to meetings… they just gather. So that’s leadership right there.
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: Well, then I can’t afford to join, you guys. I can’t do any more volunteer jobs.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: Are you sure? Because I’m hiring.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: Volunteers?
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Laura: All right. So I guess at this point we’re going to move on to our chapter discussion exactly at the cliffhanger where our last chapter left off.
[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 8 intro begins]
Dumbledore: Chapter 8.
[Sound of a gavel banging]
Dumbledore: “The Hearing.”
[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 8 intro ends]
Laura: So Harry has arrived late to the hearing, sending that anxious pit into all of our stomachs that I always get when I’m late for these important things. And he’s greeted by the entire… is it pronounced “Wiz-en-gah-mot?”
Michael: I say “Wiz-en-gah-mot.”
Kara: That’s how I’ve always said it, yeah.
Noah: Wizengamot. [laughs]
Laura: And he’s greeted by the entire Wizengamot in an unusually full trial in this criminal courtroom complete with a chair that binds the sitter in chains, and the courtroom itself is all too familiar to Harry. Percy refuses to acknowledge him and the interrogators are out to get him before it even begins. But never fear – witness for the defense, Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore is here with his trusty, big, squashy armchair.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: And Harry isn’t given the opportunity to ever make a case for himself and is incriminated further with every yes-or-no question. But will his story of impressive corporeal Patronuses battling Dementors and the batty, slipper-laden Mrs. Figg…
[Michael laughs]
Laura: … be enough to go against the ever-ignored laws and the devil herself, Dolores Jane Umbridge?
[Michael makes a shuddering sound]
Laura: We are going to find out right now. So backtracking a little, Harry enters the courtroom and he’s been in it before – that’s the first feeling he that gets – via the Pensieve. So we get another reminder here, kind of subtly, of the Lestranges, and the fact that they’re in prison for life… I think this is the second time this has come up, past the – I can’t think of the word – tapestry thing.
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: So at this point, even our first-time readers should be able to pick up the foreshadowing that at least one of the Lestranges will play a major role in the book…
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: … you never really hear of the other one… and that this imprisonment may not be for life indeed. But first of all, Fudge says that an owl was sent to Harry early in the morning about the time change, and it’s not their fault that Harry is late. So my question is: Did they actually send a letter at all? Was it conveniently late? Did it go missing, conveniently? Or did they genuinely send one; it just went to Privet Drive?
Noah: I doubt they sent one, and it was just to make Harry look foolish. So maybe Fudge just told the rest of the Wizengamot that he got the letter but it was purely political to make him seem like a weak, lazy character.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah, that’s what I agree with, also.
Michael: I agree that it’s political but I think they sent the letter. I think they purposefully sent it late…
Noah: Ah.
Michael: … because there’s the issue of accountability because then they really can say, “Oh, we sent you a letter. If you didn’t get it, it’s your fault.” And I mentioned this last week, but it’s a passive-aggressive tactic to gain…
Noah: It’s dirty.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: It would make sense for them to send it to Privet Drive because then they can’t even say, “Oh, well, it arrived later, it arrived whatever…”
Noah: They have magic.
Laura: … because they could say, “Well, we sent it to your home address, and you just weren’t there, so…”
Kara and Michael: Mhm. Yeah.
Michael: Exactly, it’s just yet another way to throw Harry off his game and completely arrest control of the situation. They’ve already… not only have they changed the time, but they’re putting it in an atmosphere that’s meant to make Harry uncomfortable and that they have full control over. This is passive-aggressive and it’s horribly intimidating, so…
Laura: Exactly.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: And it’s done in real life.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: So Fudge starts to list the interrogators and we get the first mention of Umbridge but we’ll get to her later…
Michael: Ugh.
Laura: … but interrupting and we get that fantastic moment of Dumbledore coming in to announce himself as witness for the defense.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: And I remember reading this for the first time. This is such a clapping moment of, “Yeah, we got this now.”
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: Obviously, looking at the pure size of the book we knew Harry was not going to be expelled from Hogwarts.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: Anyway, I love, by the way, when he walks in and most of the wizards, including Fudge, are annoyed or some are even frightened at his presence, but there [are] two witches in the back that wave at Dumbledore as he walks in.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: And I like it just because it’s proof that not all the Ministry thinks poorly of him or thinks that he’s power-hungry. They’re like, “It’s Dumbledore!” I think it’s just a nice detail because it’s easy to paint the Ministry as this evil body that’s just purely against Dumbledore, but this is a very subtle way of emphasizing the choices people have and that not everyone feels that way. They’re not all just one machine.
Noah: Yes, it’s more human.
Laura: Mhm.
Michael: And correct me if I’m wrong, and I’m sure the listeners will point me out if I’m way off, but aren’t these two witches the ones who resign at some point because of what’s being done at the Ministry?
Kara: Oh! That could be!
Michael: Am I off?
Laura: That I cannot confirm. I have not read this book enough…
[Michael laughs]
Kara: Yeah, that’s very detailed.
Michael: I just remember that there are two witches, in particular, who resign from the Wizengamot at some point, but I could…
Kara: Yeah, you’re right. Yeah, could be.
Noah: What a tangle she has weaved… woven?
[Michael laughs]
Kara: Yeah. And knowing Jo, she probably has backstories for both of these witches.
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: [laughs] They went to school together with Dumbledore.
Kara: Yeah.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: So Dumbledore says he luckily arrived three hours early.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: And I think we can all agree that this is meant as… not sarcasm, but this tactic that he uses pretty much throughout the whole thing, almost passive-aggressively being… never ever outright blaming Fudge for anything, just saying, “Oh, well, I’m sure you wouldn’t do that, right?” So it’s genius. But I wanted to know: Do you think that the time of the meeting was changed to make sure that Dumbledore missed the meeting or that Harry did? Or is it equal?
Kara: Well, I was wondering: Do they expect Dumbledore to come?
Laura: Well, I think so because Fudge says, “Oh, you got the notice that the time of the hearing had been changed?”
Kara: Oh, right.
Noah: Yeah.
Laura: And he’s like, “Oh, well, luckily for me, I arrived three hours early because I didn’t…”
Noah: I’m sure Fudge would have anticipated it.
Kara: Yeah, that’s true.
Michael: Well, that would make sense because we find out later… Dumbledore recites Ministry versus school policy to Fudge and I think because of the case and because this is so unusual and is changing a lot of Ministry laws, Dumbledore would have to be at this meeting.
Kara: That’s true.
Noah: Wasn’t it brilliant? I just loved him using the law against Fudge, just so cleverly…
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: Fully equipped here.
Laura: Right. And I’ll definitely… I’m going to get to that, just how much Fudge’s actions just epitomize this “guilty before innocent” wizard justice system.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: But so… where am I? Okay.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: So Fudge begins the interrogation and doesn’t really give Harry a chance to do anything, and one of the witches presses him more on the fact that he can produce a corporeal Patronus, and how impressed they are by that, but I will leave that discussion to our Question of the Week for later, but it was worth mentioning.
Michael: Some Lupin love in that moment from Harry. [laughs] I appreciated that!
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: But Fudge keeps saying how much he doesn’t believe anything that he’s saying, or not really giving Harry a chance to do anything, but of all the looks of agreement that Harry is receiving, it’s Percy’s self-righteous nod that sends Harry overboard and he screams out that he did it because of the Dementors. And this is… I just hate Percy so much.
[Michael laughs]
Kara: Ugh, me too.
Laura: And this is just one of those things.
Michael: It’s…
Laura: But Fudge… oh, I’m sorry, what?
Michael: Oh, I was just going to say it’s really… well, Percy’s appearance here is so short-lived in the writing. He’s not really mentioned that much, but he’s so effective in the very few moments he gets.
Laura: Yeah, I just want to slap him in the face.
Michael: [laughs] Yeah, you really do.
Noah: I just wanted to add that that one line, “Percy hastened past Dumbledore and Harry without glancing at them,” was a brilliant moment because it captured the whole feeling of the fact that Percy doesn’t care, or that he might care, but the law and the courtroom is more important than showing one meaningful glance at them, and it could’ve probably gone unnoticed, so…
Kara: Mhm, yeah.
Laura: Because I think he genuinely really doesn’t care. I don’t think he’s hiding anything. I think he loves justice.
Noah: Well, I wouldn’t say that he doesn’t care. I would just say that in this case, he thinks that Harry and Dumbledore are in the wrong. He’s on the Ministry’s side.
Kara: Right.
Laura: Right, that’s what I mean. He agrees with everything that’s coming out of Fudge’s mouth genuinely.
Michael: It’s almost frightening because he almost acts like he doesn’t even know who Harry and Dumbledore are.
Noah: Right, it’s completely cold.
Laura: He doesn’t want to be associated with them.
Michael: Yeah. It’s frightening, that level of disassociation that he manages to have in this situation, because Harry is completely goaded by Percy’s behavior, but Percy is not even reacting to Harry.
Laura: And especially, how comforting would it have been to have a familiar Weasley face?
Michael: Yeah!
Noah: While Harry’s sitting in that chained chair.
Laura: Even just giving him one smile of comfort. But it’s the exact opposite with him. It actually is what sets him over the edge.
Kara: Yeah, I think you’re exactly right. I think it’s so powerful to have somebody there on the Wizengamot who is somebody that Harry has maybe not been friends with, but known for years and is familiar with. It’s his best friend’s brother and to get that kind of reaction from him, I think that really just is the knife in the gut, like, “Oh man, I’m screwed.”
Laura: Yeah, especially just that he’s helpless.
Kara: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: But Fudge, smirking, says the Dementors are just a nice cover story… and I was curious. Does Fudge genuinely think that the Dementors were not there and that Harry is just making it up for attention?
[Michael laughs]
Laura: Or does he want to deny the fact that they were there because he doesn’t want to believe Voldemort is back?
Noah: From what I understand, he doesn’t know they are there. That they were…
Laura: Or one more thing: Does he know for a fact that they were there and is covering up for Umbridge because he’d rather admit that Voldemort was back… or rather say that nothing was there than say the Ministry had anything to do with it?
Michael: Hmm.
Laura: So there’s really three options there.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: You know that moment… this is a movie moment; it’s one of the few good ones in Order.
[Laura laughs]
Michael: You know that moment when Umbridge goes to her desk and she says, “What the Minister doesn’t know won’t hurt him,” and then she puts her picture down?
Kara: She puts the picture down, yeah. [laughs]
Michael: I think sending the Dementors to Privet Drive was one of those moments for her.
Kara: That’s what I was going to say, too. I think she’s just… knowing her as we do and her evil nature, I think I would not put it past her to just think that she knew better than the Minister of Magic and just go and act of her own accord and not even tell him.
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: Right. So do you think, in his own… deep down, does he really think… if he’s fully not even considering the possibility that anything in the Ministry had anything to do with it, do you think deep down he does think that Voldemort might be having something to do with this, or does he really just think that Harry is making this up?
Michael: I think he’s more inclined to think that it’s Voldemort, but he doesn’t want to acknowledge it. Because Dumbledore is going off of that track as well, because Dumbledore does the whole narrowing down of what’s going on and he’s like, [as Dumbledore] “Well, if we’re all so sure that it’s not the Ministry then it has to be Voldemort.”
Laura: That actually leads into exactly what my next question was, which was do you think Dumbledore really does think that Voldemort is behind the attack or does he know that the Ministry was behind it and is using this opportunity as a way to get Fudge to blame Voldemort rather than themselves, almost cornering him? Like, “Which one would you rather admit, that it was the Ministry or Voldemort?”
Michael: I think that’s exactly it, is the backing into a corner.
Kara: Yeah, I think so too.
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: Right.
Kara: Because it’s either way. Either way it goes, it doesn’t make the Ministry look good.
Laura: Right.
Michael: Well, and the funny thing I found about this, the way that Dumbledore is able to do this, is actually Fudge’s statement that he thinks… and everybody seems to agree with him, [that] it would be absolutely absurd, apparently, if Dementors just wandered into Muggle suburbs, and I’m like, “What’s stopping them?” [laughs]
Kara: That’s a good point, yeah. [laughs]
Michael: I’ve always thought it strange that from this we get the assumption that Dementors don’t hang around Muggles, but I’m like, “They are prime for the taking for a Dementor because they can’t see them.”
Kara: Yeah, and they wouldn’t be able to defend themselves.
Michael: Yeah, you would think that…
Laura: Well, I guess Fudge thinks that they own them.
Michael: I guess, yeah, because he does imply that they don’t really wander off from Azkaban, which I also think is pretty bizarre.
Laura: Which makes me wonder if they’re kind of… have the same form of almost enslavement in the way the house-elves do, or if there’s payment in souls.
Noah: They are enslaved. They absolutely are.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: Has Jim been telling you about his time at Azkaban, Noah?
Noah: [as Jim the Dementor] Oh, it’s awful. It’s the worst.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: [as Jim] They don’t even feed us. The food they give us just slips through our bones.
Michael: Like that scene in Pirates of the Caribbean when they drink the wine?
Noah: Oh, I love that. [as Jim] So do I. [back to normal voice] Oh Jim, you like that movie too? [as Jim] I do. [back to normal voice] Oh, that’s cool. That’s weird. [as Jim] Goodbye. [back to normal voice] He’s gone. He flew away. Sorry.
Laura: Bye, Jim.
Michael: Bye, Jim. It was so good to hear from him. We haven’t heard from him in a while.
Noah: He’s kind of crazy. He’s weird. He just flies over my bed as I’m sleeping.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: He just wants to cuddle with your soul.
Noah: He does, actually.
Michael: He just wants to give you a kiss.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Goodnight kiss.
Noah: He can’t cuddle with his wife because his wife makes him depressed.
Michael: That’s right. He talks about that on his Twitter account a lot, doesn’t he?
Noah: Yeah.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: That’s @JimTheDementor, by the way.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: So when Dumbledore tries to produce his witness that he has…
Michael: Oh, God.
Laura: … secretly away, Fudge says [that] he doesn’t have time for that.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: And I feel like anyone other than Dumbledore would have been almost overruled in that scenario, and it’s just awful.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: It’s just completely skating around any sort of justice system or the laws. And this is not the only time he does something like that. Throughout the chapter you see him [saying] “Oh, he doesn’t have time for that” or “Laws can be changed” and whatnot. And it’s just absurd, and it’s the epitome…
Noah: Well, this entire sequence is really a…
Laura: … of everything that’s wrong.
Noah: It’s like a power play between Fudge and Dumbledore. It’s like, who’s going to be the man? That’s sort of what it is. Dumbledore pulls on the law itself – very wisely – and Fudge is just the guy on top with the hammer, and that’s what he uses. But at the end of the day, that is not enough.
Kara: Right, yeah.
Laura: It’s almost like he doesn’t want to give Dumbledore the opportunity to speak because he knows if he does, then he’s just not going to win.
Noah: But that’s right. It’s his own… everything he does seems to be for personal emotions against Dumbledore, as opposed to what is right in the eyes of the law.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Noah: And that’s where he fails.
Laura: Yeah, I think also against Harry as well.
Noah: Yes.
Kara: Mhm.
Michael: Isn’t the term for this “kangaroo court”? Where it’s just…
Noah: Well, I don’t see anybody hopping.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Michael: Well, Fudge is hopping mad.
Noah: Oh-ho! That’s it.
Michael: Oh-ho! [laughs]
Noah: Good recover.
Michael: So… but yeah, like Laura said, the laws are being completely… I think this is the point where… but this is, in a way, kind of the point where Fudge is really starting to lose control of the situation, because he really… he does have the upper hand from the start. It starts slipping when Madam Bones starts speaking.
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: Mhm.
Michael: But once Dumbledore says, “I have a witness,” I think that just completely falls apart at this point.
Noah: Well, Dumbledore pretty much notices immediately that Madam Bones is the reason on Fudge’s side…
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Kara: Right.
Laura: Right.
Noah: … that he can really appeal to. And probably the other members of the Wizengamot look to her for some of that as well.
Michael: Mhm.
Noah: She’s probably one of the power players. Maybe even Dumbledore had a bit of a strategy when he went in? I don’t know if he’s necessarily… he’s not winging it. He’s got an idea, so he’s going to appeal to her as best he can. He probably would have known that she would pick up on the Patronus part.
Michael: Mhm.
Kara: Yeah, and I think that’s probably common knowledge, because remember back at the Burrow when they were leaving, Tonks said something about, “Oh, Madam Bones, that’s great. She’s fair, it’ll be good. She’s a fair judge.”
Laura: Right.
Kara: So I think it’s probably common knowledge that that’s how she would conduct her trials, so Dumbledore probably knows that and plans for that.
Laura: I’m surprised Fudge even let her be there then…
Kara: [laughs] Yeah.
Laura: … if he’s so… throwing laws to the wind.
Noah: Well, he’s not quite logical in this moment at all.
Laura: I’m surprised he didn’t give her a different job to do that day.
Michael: Well, and the sad thing… because I thought this when I… I remember thinking this when I first read the book, but I really liked Amelia Bones and, sadly, she does not survive the series and I thought she would have been a great Minister [for] Magic.
Laura: Yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: So she does…
Laura: I agree.
Michael: To me, at least, she seems to play fair like Tonks speaks of her.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: Mhm. So the witness that is produced is Mrs. Figg.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: And Harry is kind of just like, “Ugh.”
[Kara laughs]
Laura: She’s just the least credible looking person ever walking [in]. She’s still in her slippers…
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: … this old woman. It’s just a fantastic visual.
Noah: The casting is perfect for the movie.
Kara: Oh, yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: So she comes in and she starts to be questioned. And first of all, there’s just this one quote that is just worth saying because it’s hilarious…
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: … where Madam Bones says, “What did they look like?” and Figg responds, “Well, one was very large and the other rather skinny.” “No, the Dementors.”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: It’s just perfect.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: But… where am I? Sorry. Okay, so she… Fudge kind of questions the fact that she… you’re obviously not a wizard because we closely monitor that, which is an interesting thing anyway. But I find it interesting… she reveals that she’s a Squib, and I find it interesting that the Ministry doesn’t monitor where Squibs are because I would think their own knowledge of the wizarding world, which we see through Mrs. Figg’s references – pop culture references, if you will – that she is very knowledgeable of the wizarding world. That would be enough of a thing to warrant monitoring the Statute of Secrecy…
Noah: Well, it seems to me that the Ministry… most members of the Ministry come from this high class of wizarding society, and they seem to look at Squibs with a level of discontent. They really don’t like them or care about them. So to even have them in a system, they are not even worth the time, or at least I think I got that impression. That’s why Dumbledore is so nice to Squibs or he keeps them in the loop because he knows their utility. But the Ministry pretty much doesn’t care or does not know that.
Laura: Yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: I mean, I think that at least… I would think it would still represent a danger to the Statute of Secrecy, but I guess perhaps the logic for them could also be that if they went off about the magical world without the abilities to back it up, they would just sound crazy.
Kara [laughs] Sound crazy, yeah.
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: Especially someone who looks like Mrs. Figg.
Kara [laughs] Yeah.
Michael: It’s actually kind of… when you put it that way, it’s actually kind of sad…
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Michael: It does make me think – yet again – of the mirrors of the real world with individuals with disabilities…
Noah: Oh, yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: … and I was like, “This is kind of how the government views individuals with disabilities, is that they don’t really know what to do with them. They’re kind of a nuisance, so they just don’t really pay them much attention.”
Kara: Just pretend they don’t exist.
Michael: Yeah. Because…
Noah: And certain big businesses have picked up on that and given them jobs.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: They’re acting as governmental agencies in a way when the government can’t do it. At least in this country.
Michael: Mhm. Yeah.
Laura: Right.
Michael: It’s interesting because it’s the same kind of thing where it’s like, “Oh, well, they know about magic but they can’t do it, so…” [laughs]
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: Which is why I wish she included in the series a Squib that was in some sort of position of… I mean, the only other Squib is Filch.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: And Filch is neither a pleasant character or a particularly useful one.
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: So Mrs. Figg is great in this scenario, but I almost wish that we saw at least maybe just one other Squib that had some sort of higher place in the wizarding world that wouldn’t necessarily require doing magic, but… I don’t know.
Michael: I do think there is a… I’ll have to look it up at some point, but I do think there is at the very least a society for Squibs in the wizarding world. [laughs] I could be wrong, but I feel like…
Laura: Yeah.
Michael: … that does exist in the canon.
Noah: Where would that exist?
Kara: Right. Yeah.
Laura: I mean, Squibs are one of the most sad things to think of ever.
Michael: I know.
Kara: Yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: But…
Noah: No, but seriously, Michael. Where do they go? If you… just go with me. What do you think?
Michael: Oh, actually… okay, I just Googled “Squib Society”…
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: … because I was like, “Does it exist? I’m sure it exists.” And it’s from a wizarding card from Rowling’s old website and it [says], “The Society for the Support of Squibs is presumably a charitable organization set up to assist those Squibs living in the wizarding world.”
Noah: Oh, that sounds terrible.
Michael: “It was established by Idris Oakby.” [laughs] So there is a society for them.
Kara: That’s good.
Noah: It’s not like AA where you go, “My name is August. I am a Squib.”
[Kara laughs]
Michael: Oh, they have a picture from the website. Idris is this older lady with bottle-bottom glasses [laughs] and she’s carrying… the donation can, she’s got one of those. I think on the site…
Noah: Oh my gosh. Some listener who is also a techie, make this website and send it to me.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Kara: Yes.
Laura: A website? How about just art?
[Kara laughs]
Noah: There should be a website for Squibs. Let’s make it. Who’s in?
[Kara laughs]
[Prolonged silence]
Laura: Silence.
Noah: Silence. Okay, got the message. It’s fine.
[Kara laughs]
Laura: So the big question, I guess… I don’t know if it’s sprouting from my own confusion or if it’s actually a question, but when Mrs. Figg goes on to describe the Dementors, she doesn’t really give a particularly convincing description, and she says the Dementors were running and stuff. But that could just be attributed to the fact that she didn’t actually ever see a Dementor, but not that she couldn’t.
Noah: I think she’s actually… I don’t think she can see them. I think she is lying to protect Harry out of some sense that this is what I have to do so that I can prove that I see them, when actually I only feel them…
Laura: Right.
Noah: … when actually they do believe that she can feel them because that is an accurate representation.
Laura: Right. That’s more of what I was thinking of too, just that she can’t actually see Dementors. My only thing that was making me think, “Well, maybe she can,” was the fact that Filch is [at] Hogwarts and he’s able to view these supposedly very magical things around him…
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: … presumably. But maybe not. But…
Kara: Yeah. No, I kind of agree with you because I was thinking maybe being a Squib just means you don’t have magical powers. You can still see past the… because Squibs aren’t Muggles…
Michael: Mhm.
Kara: … so a lot of those defenses that are set up so Muggles can’t see Hogwarts, maybe they wouldn’t work on a Squib because they have been brought up in a wizarding household…
Laura: Mhm.
Kara: … so maybe they are able to see past those kinds of things? I don’t know.
Noah: Maybe there’s a spectrum of Squibery?
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Kara: Maybe.
Laura: It’s possible. Just because I think of how they almost thought that Neville when he was a kid could be a Squib…
Kara: Right.
Laura: … but occasionally he would show a magical tendency or what not, that even though he turned out to be a fully-fledged wizard…
Noah: It was good that he… if he hadn’t bounced, it would have been kind of messy.
[Kara laughs]
Michael: No, I think that’s a great point, Laura, with Filch because that got me thinking, who is Filch’s greatest adversary? Peeves, who is a poltergeist, who he obviously can see.
Noah: Peeves!
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: I think it would be more difficult if he couldn’t see him, and poltergeist from what we know…
Laura: That’s a whole other element.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Michael: Pottermore extrapolates that poltergeists are in the same distant relation to dementors in that they just are birthed of emotion…
Laura: Mhm.
Michael: So I think Noah is right, though, that she… I think she didn’t actually… she can see them but I don’t think she actually did, because she shows up quite a bit after the attack anyway.
Kara: Yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: Yeah. The thing is, she describes exactly what happened as far as the attack went…
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: … as Harry sending the Patronus and what not. But at the same time, if Harry had told this to anyone… if Dumbledore got it, Dumbledore could have briefed her… because she doesn’t really show up until it’s over.
Michael: No, I think that’s exactly it, because Harry notices that until she starts describing the feelings the dementor causes somebody to have, Harry thinks that she sounds like she rehearsed the whole thing.
Noah: Right.
Laura: Mhm.
Noah: And Dumbledore wouldn’t have told her to lie about seeing them, I don’t think.
Michael: No.
Noah: That was probably her idea, which means that she lied to the entire Wizengamot. She’s got some Nargles. She’s got some pretty good Nargles.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: I don’t think she ever had to go under oath or anything. They didn’t really have…
Kara: Yeah. They didn’t respect her enough, probably.
Noah: Well, I don’t think they have religion in the Harry Potter world.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: Except for the Christmas thing. But we haven’t… that’s a…
Michael: Well yeah, but they don’t take an oath when they go into court to tell the truth, so… [laughs]
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: Pretty much, I think Bones kind of says, “Are you sure?”
[Michael laughs]
Laura: And if you say, yes…
Michael: Good enough!
Noah: [unintelligible] … make you lie about anything, so…
Laura: Which actually leads me… what I think is funny is Fudge says, once Figg walks out of the room, “That wasn’t very convincing.”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: It’s just funny to think if that had been said in an American courtroom, it just wouldn’t fly.
[Michael laughs]
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: But Bones says, “Well, I can’t imagine why she would say that they were there if they weren’t.” Well, I appreciate that sentiment.
[Kara and Michael laughs]
Laura: I can think of a very large reason as to why she would say that they were there if they weren’t.
Michael: Well, right? Because too, the Ministry had literally just found out that Mrs. Figg is actually involved in Harry’s life to a degree.
Laura: Right.
Kara: Mhm.
Michael: And then they’re just like, “Well, I can’t think of one reason why she would lie to us.”
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: Totally! But no one particularly questions that much further. So once this is done and Dumbledore starts to go into the whole – all his theories of why the dementors are there and perhaps the Dark Lord interference – we get the introduction of everyone’s least favorite character…
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: … Dolores Umbridge. And even just in this description, the fact that we get this lengthy description of her physical appearance just immediately lets us know that this is not the last we’re seeing of this horrible character.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: The connections are negative there: Vernon Dursley and a toad.
Kara: Toad. [laughs]
Laura: Yeah. It’s “a large pale toad”… “squat”… “broad”… “flabby”…
Kara: Ugh!
Laura: … “slack mouth”… all these horrible things… “bulging” eyes. It’s just awful.
Michael: But then the most shocking thing is when she opens her mouth.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: Right. And she’s wearing a bow in her hair and she’s got this girlish, high-pitched voice. It’s almost even creepier than it would be if it was just a croak…
[Michael laughs]
Laura: … like the character in Monsters, Inc.…
Kara: Yeah. [laughs]
Laura: … but more what I always thought of Umbridge…
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: … but that femininity is so off-putting.
Michael: Oh, you were referencing Roz, weren’t you?
Laura: I was.
[Michael imitates Roz]
[Kara laughs]
Noah: Is it possible though that maybe she’s such a mean character because…
Kara: What, Noah?
Noah: Is she such a mean character maybe because throughout her whole life she’s been a victim of some bias because she wasn’t an attractive woman?
Michael: I’m curious as to Umbridge’s background. I’m hoping we’re going to get something more about her on Pottermore, because…
Kara: That would be really interesting.
Laura: Yeah.
Micheal: Whatever this is, this is not birthed out of nothing.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: There are reasons for this. [laughs]
Kara: Right. Yeah.
Laura: I think… I don’t know, I think for me… I’m sure I’ll leave larger Umbridge analysis for her own chapter…
Noah: Yeah.
Laura: … but I think it really just comes down to how much she just sees justice and order. We see her obsession with order and everything is just being right…
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: … and we do see her prejudices that she has towards half-breeds.
Noah: She probably didn’t have a lot of order in her childhood. She’s actually a sad case.
Kara: Maybe.
Michael: I’m sure you could find many a fan fiction.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: But we see immediately Umbridge is kind of ironically… I never saw this coming particularly because I always just assumed that [when] Dumbledore was saying Voldemort’s behind this, I’m like yeah, Voldemort was behind this. So when it turned out Umbridge was behind this, it just never particularly occurred to me. It seemed too far-fetched for her to have done that. But she’s the one that says, “I can’t believe you would actually suggest… I thought for the teensiest moment that you were insinuating that the Ministry was behind this…”
[Kara laughs]
Laura: … when in fact she herself is. So, yeah.
Noah: Which leads me nicely to my comment that I put in the doc: Does she have some sort of infatuation with Fudge?
[Kara laughs]
Noah: Is this fully fleshed out? What the heck is going on? Some bizarre romantic interest? Her loyalty or devotion to the Minister is weird. What do you all think?
Laura: I do think that she has an intense devotion, but I don’t think that has anything to do with anything romantic. I think it’s just this symbol of what he stands for, which is the lead of bureaucracy…
Noah: Yeah.
Laura: … and order and hierarchy and just all of those things that he and the Ministry represents. I think that’s her passion and what she thinks the most right thing is.
Noah: Right.
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: I don’t think it has to do particularly with Fudge himself. I think the Minister could have been anybody.
Kara: Yeah. And I think also, it could be an interesting parallel to look at the Death Eaters and Voldemort and their kind of devotion, unwaving devotion, especially Bellatrix…
Michael: Yep.
Kara: … although that is romantic. But it’s that similar thing of just believing in someone, almost making it into this religious figure-like hero to be worshipped.
Laura: Mhm.
Kara: I think that’s what Umbridge does with Fudge, and like we were saying earlier about – I can’t remember if this is in the book, but in the movie she has that picture of Fudge on her desk in her office at Hogwarts. So, it’s like this borderline creepy devotion.
Michael: Yeah. I think that’s exactly it. And it’s perfect, Kara, that you said Voldemort and Bellatrix, because you really could go into a similar analysis with that. Because as we previously mentioned, Bellatrix is married – a fact we all often forget.
Kara: Yeah.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: She does have a husband…
Kara: Right.
Michael: … and her devotion to Voldemort… I do think there is this unrequited affection for Voldemort in her weird, twisted way. I do think that is birthed because Voldemort – so perfectly as you said, Kara – represents her ideals.
Noah: It’s true.
Michael: With Bellatrix and Umbridge, you’ve got a case of two women who are portrayed as lacking emotion.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: They’re not affectionate women. They’re…
Kara: They’re like sociopaths.
Michael: Yes! Yes.
Noah: But why does relationship need to be affectionate?
Michael: Well, if you want to define it that way, I think you could say there is that. But like Laura said too, I think it’s kind of a love for what these men represent as an idea rather than themselves perhaps.
Noah: No, no, it’s true. But I think if you look at the language, that’s where all this insinuation comes into play. And just speaking for me, I feel like humankind can’t quite separate relations between… we can’t take out the gender, or the romance factor, or the ideas. We just don’t know how to do that yet as a species, though we keep trying to tell ourselves that we can – put it under different names. But in bureaucracy and business and everything, there are dynamic relations that are modeled after either old school family 1950s, depending on if you’re in the United States, or just sort of family-oriented things. Do you sort of know what I mean? So even with these characters, I feel like even though on one level there are the very practical connections of following Fudge because he’s the hallmark of bureaucracy, there’s also other stuff. There’s another level of man/woman at play.
Kara: Mhm.
Noah: So that’s my English major.
[Kara laughs]
Laura: I don’t know. I respect your opinion on that. I just personally don’t see it because I think the connection, if we’re talking about Bellatrix and Voldemort, [is] kind of the opposite parallel. I was thinking just in needing almost a figurehead for your idealology, even something as simple as Dumbledore’s Army, Dumbledore is not really connected or related to that at all, yet they still call it Dumbledore’s Army. Dumbledore is their hero but he doesn’t really have anything to do with anything that’s actually happening. He has everything to do with what’s happening in the Order, but they didn’t call it Potter’s Army because they just needed a symbol for their idealology. I think for Umbridge, she doesn’t have an organization per se – I guess she eventually does with the Inquisitorial Squad and whatnot – but she’s not going to call it Umbridge’s Army. She needs to say that she’s working for Fudge’s idealology and the Ministry, even if Fudge might not actually be sitting there feeding her information.
Noah: Which is interesting, because on some levels she didn’t necessarily have to do that, but that’s where she draws her power from.
Michael: Mhm.
Laura: Right. I doubt Fudge is actually sitting there telling her to make all these decisions. I think he just gave her the authority and kind of stepped away. In the same way, it reminds me of when Percy first got this power. It’s like, “I’m working for Crouch!” But in fact, Crouch is just like, “Sure, whatever,” and lets him do whatever he wants almost. So, I don’t know…
Kara: Mhm.
Michael: While I am mostly in agreement with Laura and Kara on this, Noah, I do think that is a totally legit interpretation in terms of how the movies portray Umbridge.
Kara and Laura: Yeah.
Michael: In terms especially of that portrait of Fudge on her desk. I think the movies actually did take that tact with how they portrayed…
Noah: Yeah…
Michael: So perhaps…
Kara: Mhm.
Noah: Well, I think I have to sit down with the language. What I can do is take every single line where Umbridge even references Fudge, and I can just look at the words and see what kind of words she’s using to describe their relationship. I can do it both ways, for when Fudge is talking about Umbridge, and then I can come to some conclusion about it. But I haven’t looked at that data yet.
[Kara laughs]
Laura: Well, let us know and get back to us. [laughs] But to kind of conclude it… first of all Dumbledore says, “It’s not Fudge’s business what Harry does at school,” once Fudge starts to bring up the fact that he’s been such a rulebreaker at Hogwarts. And Fudge rather threateningly says, “Oh, really? You think that’s none of my business?” And it’s just kind of a grim foreshadowing of what heavy interference is to come.
Michael: Yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: It’s another one of those scary… We’re used to Fudge giving empty threats, but this is the first one where he means business this time. [laughs]
Kara and Laura: Yeah.
Noah: But it’s weak. He’s just getting emotional and Dumbledore is cool and collected, but…
Laura: Oh yeah, it’s definitely…
Michael: Dumbledore wins! [laughs]
Laura: … Dumbledore’s calm demeanor is just making Fudge seem crazy.
Kara: Oh yeah.
Laura: It’s almost like when someone’s in a swordfight dueling each other.
Noah: But this is on his own turf.
Laura: They just let the other dance around the other until they get tired.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Noah: Dumbledore is doing this on his own turf, just pulling him apart in front of everyone. So that’s sort of where the retribution comes from.
Laura: Right.
Michael: No, the tables have been turned completely in this power play. What’s funny… it kind of made me realize as I was reading this last night, before when I read this I could so clearly hear how I hear Dumbledore in my head. This time I was trying to shove Michael Gambon’s voice out of my head because…
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: Me too.
Michael: … his quotes are so, I think, particularly memorable in the series from this particular scene. He has a lot of good one-liners in the movie and directly from the books, so I could hear them just like it and I was like, “No, Michael Gambon, you don’t sound right at all for the tone of what this is supposed to be.”
Noah: No, Michael Gambon…
Laura: Yeah. [laughs]
Noah: No, Dumbledore has a multi-faceted expression here. He’s sitting with quiet coolness…
Laura and Michael: Mhm.
Noah: … contemplating things – big things – and Dumbledore in the movie is just the same kind of…
Kara: He’s angry.
Noah: … drawn face, like [as Michael Gambon] “This is it…”
Kara: Yeah.
Noah: … “I’m saying the line. I don’t care.”
[Laura and Michael laugh]
Michael: Yeah. For me, as a voice actor, it just really affected me reading it because I’ve always had such a clear sound for Dumbledore in my head and the way I hear him is that he’s smiling almost all the time that he talks.
Kar: Yeah.
Michael: Even when he’s saying threatening things, but he says them with a smile and he says them…
Noah: Yeah.
Laura: Mhm.
Michael: … like kind of a friendly grandpa. But that really threw me off this chapter because I was like, “No, I have to read it this way,” because it completely changes how Dumbledore takes this argument into his hands.
Kara: Yeah, I agree that there’s definitely a shift in the movies versus the books with this scene because I really like when Dumbledore says the thing about it not being Fudge’s business – what Harry gets up to at school – and in the book I think it says, that’s the first time Dumbledore starts to sound angry.
Michael: Mhm.
Kara: And it’s just a very subtle anger, but it’s there because that’s Dumbledore’s territory. You kind of get a sense from that, it’s just a very quiet anger but letting Fudge know, “At least right now, I still have jurisdiction over what happens at my school.”
Michael: Yeah. It’s…
Laura: Mhm. And it’s also, he’s saying… We also get it revealed that he’s been asked to leave the Wizengamot…
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: … and he’s like, “Well, clearly you’re changing laws all over the place.”
Kara: Yeah.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Laura: Now it’s practice to hold a full criminal trial for under-age magic…
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: And I do agree with Kara in saying that he’s still remaining calm…
Michael: Mhm. But there’s anger.
Laura: But he’s getting irritated now…
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: … because now, it’s getting to the point where he’s going to have to say, “All right, give your verdict.” And…
Michael: Yeah.
Kara: Right. Like, “Let’s get this over with.” [laughs]
Laura: At this point, it’s in the hands of the rest of the trial because you know there’s no winning Fudge. There’s no winning Umbridge.
Kara: Mhm.
Laura: So, at this point he just needs to…
Michael: But…
Laura: … put his faith in the people that are back there.
0
Michael: Take that guys, it’s the power of the voice. One point for all the voice actors out there. Dumbledore’s a good voice actor.
[Laura laughs]
Michael: So, of course, I don’t know if any of you saw The Lego Movie, because he sounds quite different in that.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Was it a little bit more animated?
Michael: [as Michael Gambon in The Lego Movie] A little bit more animated.
Noah: Ehh…
Michael: [in a high pitched voice] It’s Dumbledore! Dumbledore!
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Michael and Noah: [in British accents] Dumbledore!
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Michael: [in a high-pitched voice with a British accent] Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore. [laughs]
Noah: Now that would have been weird.
[Kara, Laura, and Michael laugh]
Noah: I think that would have been a bad path to take. He didn’t though, I was happy.
Laura: But to conclude on a Dumbledore note, so Harry’s cleared of all charges and you want to be like, “Yeah!” and have him and Harry high-five.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: But Dumbledore just leaves…
Noah: Yeah.
Laura: … and I think, rather hypocritically because… This occurs to me while marathoning through the Harry Potter movie series this weekend or whatever thing it was.
Noah: Oh, good for you. Good for you.
Michael: Yeah.
[Noah laughs]
Laura: And I got to the part – I think it was in Chamber of Secrets – where Dumbledore was saying, “Harry, is there anything you ever need to tell me?” Where he is saying, “You’re not alone.” Or in Goblet of Fire, I think – also at the end – he’s like, “Don’t think you’re ever alone in this.”
Kara: Yeah, yeah.
Laura: And then we come to Order of the Phoenix and he’s just like, “Nope, I’m leaving.”
[Everyone laughs]
Kara: Yeah.
Laura: Where Harry now wants to talk to him throughout the series and has stuff he wants to tell him and he’s just like, “Nope! I’m going to leave you to your own good.” And it’s the opposite. It’s like, “Oh, remember that time I said you could come to me about anything? Nope.”
Noah: Well, I think there’s also the fact that now that Voldemort is back, the Dumbledore plan is activated and maybe, to an extent, he doesn’t want to get emotionally attached to Harry because Harry is potentially a pig for slaughter, as well. I don’t know if that comes into play, I just thought of that.
Kara: Yeah, I think that’s part of it because I think Dumbledore actually says something like that at the very end of Order of the Phoenix, when they’re having that big dramatic conversation in his office and Harry is smashing everything, and Dumbledore says something about… He goes through every year of Harry’s life at Hogwarts and says, “By this point I had already begun to care about you…”
Noah: Aww.
Kara: … “and it was getting harder and harder to do what needed to be done.” And I think at this point, he’s trying to distance himself from Harry just because of the whole mind connection thing. He probably fears that that’s going to…
Noah: Well that’s the major reason.
Kara: Right, yeah.
Michael: That still bothers me though, to this day, because I’m like, “You couldn’t… What would Voldemort get if you just gave Harry a little hug of reassurance? Or just…
[Kara laughs]
Kara and Noah: Yeah.
Michael: … just a little something.
Laura: Yeah, just talk to him. You don’t have to go over secret Order plans or something…
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: … just be like, “Hey Harry, how are you doing? Do you want some tea?”
Noah: Maybe he thought that Voldemort was going to possess Harry’s body and bite him like a snake or something on the neck? Can you imagine?
Michael: Well, apparently…
[Laura laughs]
Michael: … you know that is a thing to be cautious of.
Noah: [unintelligible]
[Laura and Noah laugh]
Michael: But yeah, that is pretty… And I guess, too, we find out a little more later that affection and love and good feelings kind of keep Voldemort out of Harry’s head.
Kara: Yeah. That’s true.
Michael: So, really that… Just a moment for Harry to have some good feelings of accomplishment with Dumbledore to just say, “You’re welcome.”
[Noah laughs]
Michael: And, “I’ll see you at school.”
Noah: Just a wink, another look of triumph. One more.
Michael: Yes. A less confusing look of triumph.
Laura: Yeah.
Noah: Like more…
Laura: It’s just that how much he keeps him in the dark is just…
Michael: Yeah.
Laura: I don’t know. This is the point where I stop liking Dumbledore.
[Kara laughs]
Laura: Or start to stop liking Dumbledore.
[Everyone laughs]
Kara: Yeah, and it’s interesting because it’s almost like the plan kind of backfires because in making Harry feel that way, making him feel alone, it’s almost opening him up more, making him more vulnerable.
Michael: Exactly. No, it’s the big mistake that Dumbledore makes.
Noah: And it makes him reckless.
Kara: Yep. Yeah, yeah.
Noah: It makes him reckless to jump into battle.
Michael: Yeah. This is the time where you can’t treat Harry like a chess piece…
[Kara laughs]
Michael: … that you actually… He needed to be, at this point, he did need to be acknowledged for his accomplishments and for who he was and have a relationship with Dumbledore and yeah, that was…
Noah: Wait, wait…
Laura: Yeah.
Noah: So are we saying that Dumbledore is at fault here?
Laura: Yes.
Noah: But he’s not. He’s not all knowing. He’s not really that great.
Laura: I never said he was that great.
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: I am not a Dumbledore fan.
Noah: He’s actually kind of a sucky guy.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: Kind of. Operative word: kind of. I’m not saying he’s fully bad in the same way that so many of us are like, “Snape’s not a nice word.”
Noah: We’re not saying he’s evil.
[Michael laughs]
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: Look how quickly we start to…
Laura: He’s just… he’s flawed.
Noah: He could be evil, potentially.
Michael: Look how quickly we’ve changed, guys.
Laura: No. That’s a little too far.
Michael: We’re all…
Laura: But…
Michael: … at that point, we’re just like, “God, remember when Dumbledore was awesome? Those were good days.”
Noah: Remember when he was awesome.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Yeah, but Harry is like a child who has become disenfranchised with his parents. Not disenfranchised, dis…
Kara: Disillusioned?
Noah: Disillusioned with the parents who come home and you realize that they’re just people, too. Dumbledore’s just another person.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: Yep. So it begins.
Noah: Well, here’s the Podcast Question of the Week. So back at the courtroom, Amelia Bones is really happy that Harry can do a corporeal Patronus… Or maybe happy is the wrong word. Surprised, because he’s so young. And we keep going back to this. She’s not the first person to notice this. And I was wondering, what’s the big deal about having a corporeal Patronus and not just being kind of just a shield, but being an actual animal or creature? I thought, does it require perhaps a certain degree of emotional intelligence? Do you have to go through a big, emotional something for you to be able to produce it? Because I know that when Harry is working with Lupin, as you’ll remember, he has to really fight off some stuff in his head to get there. Or he has to really bring his happy thought forward. So that’s the question. Looking forward to reading your answers in the next episode.
Michael: That’s a good question because we do constantly get conflicting information on how a patronus operates and how hard it is to make one. So that’s…
Noah: Yeah, and it doesn’t seem to be a matter of just skill and wand waving. It’s something deeper, something more so.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kara: Yeah.
Noah: Maybe it’s emotional intelligence, I don’t know.
Kara: I’m pointing my wand at you, so…
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: That’s really…
Michael: How it…
Laura: … how Harry Potter…
Michael: How it…
Laura and Michael: Should’ve ended.
[Laura and Michael laugh]
Michael: “I’m pointing my wand as hard as I can.”
[Kara, Laura, and Michael laugh]
Laura: But in any case, we would like to thank Kara so much for being here.
Kara: Yeah, thank you for having me, guys. This is great.
Michael: Kara…
Laura: And best of luck with your Doctor Who podcast.
Kara: Thank you very much.
Laura: As soon as I start watching Doctor Who I will check it out.
Kara: All right, awesome. [laughs]
Michael: I have to ask, Kara, before we go…
Kara: Yes.
Michael: I have to ask her one of those big questions, because I still ponder this.
Kara: All right.
Michael: Why do you think Harry Potter fans love Doctor Who so much? There’s…
Kara: That’s a good question.
Michael: … a good majority of the fandom that kind of crossed over and I’m curious.
Kara: Oh yeah, I really think so. Yeah and a lot of friends I’ve met through Doctor Who are huge Harry Potter fans, and it’s not even just that they’ve read the books, but they’re massive fans.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kara: I really don’t know. I think that it’s just the sci-fi, that kind of… They’re of similar genres and I think people who have read Harry Potter and grown up with Harry Potter are interested in those kinds of things. Particularly time travel, how it plays a part in Harry Potter. And I’ve talked to a lot of people who love Prisoner of Azkaban because of the time travel aspect, and then of course Doctor Who is all about time travel. So I think there are a lot of elements that are in both forms of media.
Michael: Yeah.
Kara: So I think they’re very different but I think there are similarities there, so it is interesting.
Michael: That is an excellent answer. See, and…
Kara: Thank you.
Michael: … I bet there’s more of that insight on your fantastic podcast. Where can the listeners go to listen to your podcast?
Kara: Hopefully. Well, they can find us on iTunes under The Impossible Girls. They can follow us on Twitter at @tigpodcast. And we’re also on Facebook.
Michael: That sounds perfect. Perfect, so…
Kara: All right. [laughs]
Michael: Well…
Laura: Maybe I shouldn’t watch Doctor Who…
[Kara laughs]
Laura: … if it’s all time travel. If anyone knows my feelings on time travel it just confuses me so much.
Michael: Time-Turner rage.
Kara: Oh no.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Oh that reminds me, did Dumbledore use the Time-Turner to get back to the trial on time?
[Michael laughs]
Noah: When he…
Kara: I really like that theory, actually. I think that’s really interesting. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Noah: Because he’s got one.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Kara: Yeah.
Michael: He’s got everything. He’s like Mary Poppins, he just pulls it all out of his bag, right?
[Kara, Laura, and Michael laugh]
Noah: Now I’m thinking about him coming down with an umbrella, just in time for tea.
Michael: All right. So if you would like to be on the show with us just like Kara, join us in our TARDIS. It’s bigger on the inside.
[Kara laughs]
Caleb: You can head over to our main website and check out the “Be on the Show” page at alohomora.mugglenet.com. You just need a microphone and some headphones, and we’ll get you set up, hopefully, and you can join us and talk about Harry Potter.
Noah: And if you’d like to contact us, you can reach us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, on facebook.com/openthedumbledore, on Tumblr [at] mnalohomorapodcast.tumblr.com. You can call us. I’m just going to take a brief moment. We want some calls, can you please just call our line? I’m not begging…
Laura: Noah sits there all day by the phone.
Noah: I sit by the phone…
Laura: Just waiting.
Noah: … waiting for someone to go Albus, 206-GO-ALBUS. Call us at 206-462-5287. That’s 206-462-5287. Call us now. Go Albus.
[Laura and Michael laugh]
Noah: You can subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, you can follow us on Snapchat [at] mn_alohomora, which is run by mplacto who is currently going to work for Disney, which is really cool.
Michael: [as Mickey Mouse] “Oh boy.”
Noah: He’s our Snapchat star artist and he’s going to be doing stuff for them. So follow that account. I don’t know what that’s called exactly.
Laura: Walt Disney World.
Noah: What is it called?
Laura: [laughs] Walt Disney World.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Follow Walt Disney World on Snapchat.
[Laura and Michael laugh]
Michael: That’s straightforward.
Noah: Because we want to help him out. He helps us out. It’s a nice little give and take. It’s great. And you can also leave us an Audioboo, leave us a message directly on alohomora.mugglenet.com, and we play those on the show. It’s totally free – all you need is a microphone.
Laura: And speaking of things that are free, we just wanted to remind you that we have ringtones that are free and available on the website. And in addition to that, we have our store and you know everything that’s in there. Shirts, sweatshirts, flip-flops, but if there’s anything else that you would like to see in the store, if there’s a merch that we do not have that you would like represented, please let us know. Tweet at us, post something, comment, and we will get that together as soon as possible.
Michael: I think I need to… I’m starting to think that we need to make a shirt that just has Lupin Love on it and it’s got Harry hugging a little wolf or something like that.
Noah: Do you have a shirt yet, Michael? Is that…?
Michael: I want that.
Laura: No, me and Eric and him still don’t.
Noah: Right, so on Michael’s clearly something with Lupin.
Michael: [laughs] Lupin love.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: But…
Noah: Just…
Laura: That’ll work.
Noah: I imagine in my head a little, not an anime character, but an emoji or… No, a little character hugging a heart but he’s also wolfish. Maybe there’s a tooth.
Michael: Aww. I’ve…
Noah: Yeah, it’s cute.
Michael: Ah, these are adorable. But…
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Michael: … in the meantime, while we’re working on all these adorable things for our store, and while you’re waiting for that, we also have an app if you’re bored while you’re waiting for your child to start at the Ministry of Magic. It is seemingly available worldwide. We think so; we haven’t heard too many complaints yet. Prices vary depending on your location. Our app includes transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and more. Plenty to keep you entertained while you’re waiting for your Ministry hearing.
Laura: And actually, I was hoping… So far, no one has sent me anything, but I was in charge of that content last week, and I posed a challenge to any of our viewers where… because we were doing all code-breaking type stuff. I’m really bad at all things code-breaking, so I was trying to unscramble Harry Potter characters’ names…
[Michael laughs]
Laura: … and I was just very bad at it, and I think it’s amusing in my attempt to do it. And I asked listeners to verse me and to see how much faster they could do it for me and to tweet at me how much faster they did or how much more characters they got.
Noah: Well, I mean, they all heard you, so all they need to do is go download the app. Right now.
Laura: Yes.
[Michael laughs]
Laura: So do it…
Noah: Do it now.
Laura: … and let me know. Tweet at me.
Noah: Tweet her!
Laura: @reilly_laura.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: So until you guys are all done breaking those codes that Laura was working on, we will sign out for now. I am Michael Harle.
[Show music begins]
Noah: I’m Noah Fried.
Laura: I’m Laura Reilly. Thank you for listening to Episode 85 of Alohomora!
Michael: [as the Tenth Doctor from Doctor Who] Open the Dumbledore! Allons-y!
[Show music continues]
Noah: Chapter 8. Something happens.
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: Ooh.
[Kara laughs]
Noah: Wait, who is Allons-y? Who is that?
Michael: [laughs] Kara knows.
Laura: I’m assuming it’s Doctor Who…
Kara: Yeah.
Noah: Oh.
Michael: [laughs] That was…
Laura: I was going to say “Dumbledore!”
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Michael: I was tempted to do the “Dumbledore!” voice. “Open the Dumbledore!”
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: I was going to bring back “Jim, Jim the Dementor.”
[Kara and Michael laugh]
Noah: [as Jim the Dementor] “Open the Dumbledore, please.”
[Everyone laughs]
Laura: “Please.”
Noah: [as Jim the Dementor] “Let me through.”
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: [as Jim the Dementor] “So cold.”
