Transcript – Episode 22
[Show music begins]
Noah Fried: This is Episode 22 of Alohomora! for February 10th, 2013.
[Show music continues]
Noah: Hello, everyone. I’m Noah Fried.
Rosie Morris: I’m Rosie Morris.
Kat Miller: And I’m Kat Miller. And our special guest today is actually two special guests. It’s Alex and Laura from The Late Night Low Down. Hello, ladies. Introduce yourselves to the fans.
Alex Brown: Hi, everybody. My name is Alex.
Laura Nicolucci: And I’m Laura. And we are both third year university students in Toronto, Canada, and we study radio and television.
Alex: And we’re from the YouTube channel, The Late Night Low Down. We do a lot of video blogs on Harry Potter related stuff and our adventures as students and girls living in the big city of Toronto.
Kat: Yeah, you guys are hilarious. I found you and we featured one of your videos on MuggleNet. That was great.
Alex: Yeah, that was really exciting for us. We were actually in a lecture when we discovered we were on the MuggleNet site…
[Laura laughs]
Alex: …and we kind of disrupted the professor a little bit.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Whoops.
Noah: Which video was that?
Alex: We reviewed the Harry Potter Should Have Died MuggleNet book and we just talked about our opinions on each of the issues.
Noah: Oh, okay.
Kat: I’m pretty sure you’re the one who posted that, Noah.
Noah: When was that? Was that a while ago?
Kat: It was a while ago.
Noah: Yeah.
Laura: It was before the new year.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Well, if you could just brief the audience, what was your… how did you feel about that book?
Laura: I got the book… oh my gosh, when did I get it? It was a few summers ago and I absolutely loved it. It was actually before I had met Alex and then when we both realized we were obsessed with Harry Potter, we kind of went through it together and discussed our own issues with the ideas in it. I thought it was a really good read.
Noah: Yeah…
Alex: Yeah, I definitely recommend it to big Potter fans because it really does raise some of the issues like, should Harry have died? And I say yes, Laura says no.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Alex: It’s a great book. So definitely check it out, fans out there.
Noah: Yeah. Just to give the fans some context, that book was actually written I believe by MuggleNet’s Emerson Spartz and Ben Schoen…
Laura: Yeah.
Alex: Yeah.
Noah: …back in the day.
Kat: Yup. Mhm.
Noah: Yeah. And they also, before Deathly Hallows came out, they wrote What Will Happen in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows? So if you haven’t checked out one of the books or both, you should totally do that.
[MuggleNet Podcasts promo begins]
Harry: [yawns] Good morning, you two. What are you up to?
Ron: Hey, Harry. Hermione and I found this wireless sitting here in the common room.
Hermione: We can’t decide what to listen to, though.
Harry: Well, have you two heard of Alohomora!? They always come up with interesting new ideas and theories about the wizarding world, and invite their listeners to participate in the discussion, on and off the air. They even talk about things we do here at Hogwarts, like magical creatures, wizarding history, Divination…
Ron: You.
Harry: Yes, me… I mean, what? No! No, no, no, they don’t talk about me. A lot.
Hermione: Well, I’ve really been enjoying MuggleNet Academia. The show goes into an in-depth analysis of the wizarding world and what impact it has made on Muggle culture. They invite guest speakers and students on every episode to discuss classic and modern works of Muggle literature, and further examine why the wizarding world, as Muggles know it, has made such an impact on them.
Ron: Well, we have the day off, so I want to listen to Audiofictions. The MerMuggle Readers tell new stories written by Muggles. I love hearing what the Muggles think about us! Not only that, but listeners can request which stories they’d like to hear, and participate in contests to have their own stories read. I’ve even heard a few stories about the three of us.
Hermione: Well, these all are great suggestions, but which one should we listen to?
Harry: Chosen One gets first dibs!
Ron: Hey, I found the wireless! I get to choose!
Hermione: You two have homework to do! I’m done, so we should listen to my show!
[Harry, Hermione, and Ron bicker]
Neville: Good morning, you three. Err, what are you doing with my wireless?
Ron: Neville? This is your wireless?
Neville: Yes, I’ve been looking for it everywhere. I don’t want to miss MuggleCast. They’re always up on the latest wizarding news.
Harry: Oh. Well, we were hoping to listen to Alohomora!
Hermione: MuggleNet Academia!
Ron: Audiofictions!
Neville: Oh, sorry. But you three know you can just download those shows to listen to whenever you want, right? Anyway, thanks for finding my wireless!
Michael: The magic lives on with MuggleNet’s new podcast family.
Caleb, Kat, and Noah: Open the Dumbledore with Alohomora!
Keith: Dive deep into the literature of Harry Potter with MuggleNet Academia.
Carole, Jessie, and Michael: Live beyond the books with Audiofictions.
Eric: Get the latest news and excitement from MuggleCast.
Michael: Find every member of the MuggleNet podcast family on iTunes to subscribe and download the latest episodes today. With hundreds of episodes available, the choice is up to you.
Ginny: Hey, you three. Mum just sent her old wireless over to me. Isn’t it great?
Harry, Hermione, and Ron: Ginny!
[Ginny, Harry, Hermione, and Ron bicker]
[MuggleNet Podcasts promo ends]
Noah: Well anyway, before we continue on with the episode, I’d just like to remind all the fans that we’re going to be analyzing Chapters 5 and 6 of Prisoner of Azkaban today, and for maximum satisfaction of the episode, we suggest reading the chapters before listening to this episode of Alohomora!. So, break out your books, get some notes down, and join some commenters on the forums after the show.
Kat: Yeah. We know it’s really hard to stop reading because we all love Harry Potter, but if you only read the two chapters that we’re analyzing that week, it actually maximizes the benefits that you’ll get from listening to the podcast and visiting the forums and such. So, it helps you to focus on those two chapters alone and not the whole book.
Noah: Yup. And we’ll be sending you guys some reminders over social media, too. So…
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: …everyone should be on the same page.
Kat: So, we’re going to jump right into our comments from our chapters last week, which were Chapters 3 and 4. Our first comment comes from the forums from LadySpade, and it’s regarding Dumbledore and the Dursleys. It says:
“I’d like to point out that Dumbledore has a tendency to set things in motion several steps before the result is needed. I think that Dumbledore placing Harry in a verbally/emotionally/mentally abusive household was deliberate. […] I believe that by having Harry become broken and then form a huge attachment to the wizarding world, he’s more driven to save it, if not for the sake of that world, then for the sake of the lives of his friends.”
Rosie: I just thought this was an interesting comment in light of all the abuse stuff that we’re not going to be talking about today. It’s just interesting to see the workings that happen behind the scenes of all the stuff that we see. So, thinking about Dumbledore’s knowledge of Harry’s childhood that he does definitely seem to have, it does make you question his motives a little bit.
Kat: Yeah, and this certainly isn’t the first time that it’s been brought up that Dumbledore is kind of the orchestrator of Harry’s life. He’s the conductor standing in front of it making everything happen, so… very true.
Noah: Yeah, but on the same point, how can you still do that to a child of one? Knowing pretty much… or at least having a pretty good idea of what’s going to happen. Unless we think that Dumbledore maybe didn’t know the extent to which the Dursleys would treat him poorly.
Kat: I feel like the outcome of saving Harry’s life is – and this is going to be awful – probably worth a little bit of him getting yelled at. Like, if it’s going to save his life and make him a stronger person, I feel like that outweighs the negatives of being with the Dursleys.
Noah: And I suppose in Book 6 he does come pretty hard on them when he actually comes to the house. I’m saying pretty much that, “This was not what I intended, necessarily. You guys completely…”
Kat: Suck at life?
Noah: “Suck at life. You underperformed.”
[Kat laughs]
Noah: But yeah, Dumbledore pulling strings for the greater good.
Alex: I think that… personally, I always want to believe the best in Dumbledore. And after Sirius dies in the fifth book, he says that he loved Harry and that’s why he didn’t tell him everything right away, and it was out of love. So, I can’t imagine someone who does feel this enormous affection, almost treats Harry like a son, would purposely put him in an abusive environment. Especially since when he does talk to the Dursleys and says that they suck at life, he’s obviously surprised by that. And I don’t think he did it on purpose to build character for Harry or anything like that because Dumbledore’s not that kind of guy.
Kat: Without getting back into the abuse discussion, where do you guys stand on that issue? I know it’s hard to comment on it without getting back into it, but you know what I mean.
Laura: Yeah, definitely.
Noah: I don’t think you can.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: Just a yes… I’m just looking for a short answer, I guess.
Laura: Well, I guess to sum it up quickly, I don’t think that Harry was physically abused. I think it was just a lot of mental stuff.
Noah: Aww.
Kat: Okay.
Alex: I think it’s hard to say. Vernon is pretty verbal with his physical threats and I think he was physically abused… but mostly mental. That is a mental circus over at Privet Drive and I’m surprised he came out as well as he did.
[Kat and Laura laugh]
Laura: I think… when I was listening to you guys last week, I found myself jumping from each side.
Kat: Yeah.
Laura: But I’m going to conclude that I feel he was not physically abused.
Kat: So still split right down the middle as we are.
Laura: Yeah, exactly. [laughs]
Kat: It sounds like.
Noah: Well, if I may, briefly…
Kat: Very briefly, Noah.
Noah: Very briefly. I was having a thought the other day about the kind of different discussion. What about Vernon and Dudley’s relationship? We know that Vernon and Petunia get Dudley lots of different treats and presents and stuff. But to what degree was he abused? I think there was a line in an earlier chapter where Vernon was hitting Dudley with a… with some kind of stick? So, maybe there is more physical abuse between Vernon and Dudley.
Kat: Well, in that quote that I read in the last episode, Jo said that she sees Dudley as just as abused as Harry but in a different kind of way.
Noah: So…
Kat: So, yes. He’s definitely…
Noah: Physically abused, perhaps.
Kat: Well…
[Alex laughs]
Kat: We do see him get hit upside the head a couple of times.
Rosie: They’re both mistreated.
Kat: Yeah, more like mistreated.
Rosie: We had a few comments that were saying we shouldn’t be saying that physical abuse is worse than mental or verbal abuse. And we’re definitely not saying that either in our discussions.
Kat: Right.
Noah: Right.
Kat: Agreed. Definitely not.
Rosie: Just pinpoint what actually happened.
Alex: I think…
Noah: But if we’re… sorry, go on.
Alex: Oh, I was just going to say, I think it’s interesting that… talking about Dudley’s abuse, I think that they really did more damage to him because he’s totally crippled. He would not be able to survive on his own like… I know in the future Jo has said that he raises a family and whatnot. But I find that really hard to believe because he’s never done anything for his own. So, I think the Dursleys really would have crippled him into being… he wouldn’t be an independent being at all. Whereas Harry, even though he had much more mental and physical abuse than Dudley, I think they really did build him up to be an independent being because he didn’t really have anyone to rely on.
Laura: Yeah. Harry had to rely on his own, whereas Dudley was so sheltered.
Alex: So growing up as adults, I think Harry would be a much more successful independent adult running a household and having a career than Dudley would.
Kat: Yeah, I agree. They definitely did Dudley a disservice the way they treated him growing up, for sure. Good, all right. So, we’re just going to stop talking about it now.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: While we have a dead moment.
Noah: Or are we?
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Rosie: [unintelligible] …Kat. [laughs]
Kat: We are. But it’s still going on in the forums, so head over there and jump into that debate because it’s still there and it’s still going strong. So the next comment is from the forums again, from HPAlison, and it’s about the Harry and Tom upbringing comparison we talked about last week. It says:
“If Dumbledore had known exactly what the Dursleys would be like, I think he would have been less likely to place Harry with them.”
Oh, this is about what I just ended the conversation.
Rosie: Yeah. [laughs]
Kat: Okay. Anyway, so we’ll just read this comment and then we’ll end the discussion. [laughs] Okay.
“It was pure luck that Harry’s reaction to the Dursleys’ abuse was to become a caring, empathetic, humble person. He easily could have become angry, mean, Muggle-hating, and tempted by dark magic to make himself more powerful than the Dursleys. After all, Harry’s childhood isn’t that different from Voldemort’s – if anything, Voldemort’s may have been better since the kids at the orphanage appeared to be well tended. Both Harry and Voldemort came to Hogwarts broken and formed strong attachments to the magical world. Dumbledore couldn’t have solidly predicted which way Harry would swing.”
Hmm.
Noah: I think he could, though, because he knew his parents. And Dumbledore seems to go on the idea that whatever the parental love was, that kind of contributes to the child. Both by nature and by nurture, to some degree, because Harry was raised by them for a year and maybe that was all it took to set him on the right course.
Rosie: It was an interesting comment somewhere on our site – I can’t remember who it was now, I’m very sorry that I can’t name you – but it said that there was the idea that Voldemort couldn’t love because he was conceived under the power of a love potion rather than actual love.
Noah: Right.
Kat: Oh, I remember reading that comment!
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: It was actually…
Rosie: So, that would be kind of an ultimate difference between Harry and Voldemort in the fact that Harry did have these loving parents for at least a year. Whereas Voldemort never had a father figure and was kind of abandoned at birth… well, not abandoned but left alone when his mother died.
Noah: Yeah. And given those, I can’t really hold him responsible personally. That’s my personal view on it. Because he had such a bad startup and… especially if he was conceived on a love potion, that guy is not having a shot at anything. He’s done.
Kat: I don’t know. I still think that the main theme of the story, that it’s our choices that… there are orphans out there, people who… I’m sure they weren’t born under love potion, but there are orphans out there who have no parents and they grow up to be amazing people. So…
Noah: But that probably is because they have amazing people in their lives. But even on that end, Tom Riddle did not. He had Dumbledore, but who else, really?
Kat: Yeah, perhaps. I still think that he chose to be as awful as he was.
Rosie: But this is a great philosophical debate…
Kat: Out of fear.
Rosie: …of which there is no answer. Nature versus nurture cannot be explained yet.
Laura: Yes.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Thank you, Rosie.
Kat: Wait, you don’t think we’re going to solve that on Alohomora!?
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Yeah, we are.
Alex: I also think that as much as… after I read the love potion under which Voldemort was conceived and that’s why he cannot love, I think that that holds true. And even though I want to feel bad for the guy and be like, he could have loved, he made his choices. But he was a negative, hateful being from a small, small child and obviously these people in the orphanage are not teaching negativity and to hate others. They’re obviously trying to teach all the kids to be friends because the rest of the kids are friends – you can see that on their field trips and stuff. So, I think Voldemort obviously had some kind of negative nature versus nurture already in him that he really couldn’t fix because the orphanage leaders wouldn’t be teaching him that. He’s doing it on his own and that’s a thing that’s wrong inside of him. Do you guys get what I’m saying?
Noah: Exactly, yes.
Kat: Absolutely.
Noah: So, let me extrapolate into a logic game and let me see if you guys agree with my premises here. Let’s argue here that Voldemort, because of his nature – just his nature, his blood and parentage – he was going to give him a certain disposition in life. Are we agreed about that?
Kat: Well wait, his nature, his blood, and his parentage are three totally different things.
Noah: Okay, then how about just his nature?
Kat: Okay.
Noah: Just his essence, in a way.
Kat: Okay.
Noah: That makes him kind of disposed to act a certain way, right?
Kat: Yes.
Noah: Okay, so… and also society, the way he was raised, the orphanage and the certain events of his life. That also had an effect on him.
Rosie: That’s nurture, yes.
Noah: Yes. So, in what way… is it possible then because of these two influences working together, that he actually had no free choice to act any other way, then that would have been good because he had the influences of both nature and nurture here?
Kat: I still think that he didn’t have to go as far as he did and that was his choice completely. I’m not saying that he ever would have been a nice or non-evil person, but he did not have to go to the lengths that he did.
Noah: Right, but what I am saying is I don’t think he was actually free to make that choice.
Kat: I do, I do.
Laura: I’m going to agree with Noah.
Alex: Yeah, I agree with Noah, too.
Kat: You don’t think that there is any way that he couldn’t have become the awful, evil lord that he is?
Laura: No, because I feel like he was… like what Alex was saying before, he was brought up as this negative person that when it came to him using magic in any way, shape or form, he just went the dark route and there was no way out.
Rosie: I think…
Kat: Yeah, but isn’t there a difference between being just rude and evil and awful as opposed to being a dictator?
Rosie: I think if someone had noticed when he was in the orphanage… the people who run the orphanage noticed that he was doing bad things with kids, but they couldn’t stop it because they didn’t understand it because it was magical. If Voldemort had been… or if Tom had been raised in a magical community that could have noticed these negative actions going on and could have appropriately stopped them and rehabilitated him, then he may have had a different chance in life.
Noah: I agree, I agree. If he had better… if someone was helping him out in those early days, or he had better people to look up to, that could have changed everything. But because he did not have that and because he was predisposed by his nature, he could not have acted any other way than he did.
Kat: Hmm.
Alex: Yeah, we completely agree.
Laura: [laughs] We’re just sitting here nodding right now.
Kat: [laughs] Nice.
Noah: Yay!
Kat: They can’t see you nodding, just so you know.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Noah: Can we get a… I need a cheer sound. Whoever is editing this episode, please put a cheer sound.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: Hey, you didn’t win!
Noah: Yay! The children!
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Noah: Anyway…
Kat: Okay, so our next comment comes from AliWood and it is on our ugly versus evil debate. It says:
“Something in the discussion about the ugly equals evil debate reminded me of this quote from Roald Dahl: ‘If you have good thoughts, they will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.'”
Rosie: Hmm.
Alex: That’s from The Twits, isn’t it?
Rosie: Yeah, I think so.
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: That’s what I was talking about last week, that idea that in a lot of children’s literature, good and evil is all about expressing the inside through your looks. So if you are good and you have good thoughts, then your face will shine like sunbeams and you will look lovely. If you are evil, then unfortunately you turn out to be Mrs. Twit.
[Alex, Kat, and Laura laugh]
Noah: Yeah, and at first when we were talking about this ugly-evil thing, I was connecting it to… I’m an American and I grew up with certain influences and I’m sure it’s in every society, but we have Barbie dolls and women are told to look like Barbie dolls. So, I interpreted Harry Potter in this is you want to look good because then you can be a hero character. But now…
Kat: Yeah, but… sorry.
Noah: But wait, I’m taking what I said back. I’m saying all right, this is saying if you are good on the inside, you have these good thoughts that shine out, not the other way around. So, I actually… this is okay, I agree with this. The ugly versus evil thing in Harry Potter is not a big problem for me anymore.
Kat: Wow! You changed Noah’s mind. That doesn’t happen often.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: It did.
Kat: So, our next comment comes from Tweak6 and it’s regarding stereotyping. It says:
“I would argue that Jo actually uses sterotypes in the opposite way to many other writers. Yes, she builds the stereotypes based on appearance in the first few books in order to easily characterize the people in her world for young readers, and to create that theme of good versus evil simply. But then she very deliberately flips all of this on its head in later books – we learn more of Tom Riddle’s charisma (or at least there is much more emphasis put on it), we see that Snape is not entirely evil, and that Dumbledore was not entirely good. Jo builds the stereotypes for the very purpose of demolishing them and showing the lack of simplistic black and white in the world.”
Alex: Well put.
Rosie: I agree.
Kat: That’s a very good comment.
[Prolonged silence]
Rosie: It’s so good that we have nothing to say about it.
[Laura, Noah, and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Yeah.
Alex: I completely agree. There is nothing to really critique about it. She… whoever wrote that put it well.
Kat: Applause.
[Everyone applauds]
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: So, our next comment comes from Dream_Quaffle and it’s about pets at Hogwarts. It says:
“In Chapter 4, we visit the Magical Menagerie and are exposed to a wide variety of fascinating magical creatures. All the different creatures described in this chapter get me thinking: why is it only owls, cats, and toads that are allowed at Hogwarts? For that matter, since the letter sent to Harry in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ specifies that you may bring an owl, cat, or toad if you wish, why is Ron allowed to bring Scabbers in the first place? We also see later on in ‘Half-Blood Prince’ that Ginny buys a Pygmy Puff named Arnold and brings it to Hogwarts with her as well. Is it possible that these two creatures are so small that the teachers at Hogwarts simply don’t notice that they’re being brought in, or do they just not care?”
Noah: I don’t think they care.
Kat: I always wondered about that with Scabbers. Did nobody notice that he was bringing a rat in the building?
[Laura laughs]
Alex: Well, obviously it wasn’t a problem because it was Percy’s rat before Ron’s and Percy got made a Prefect and Head Boy.
Noah: Yeah.
Alex: So, obviously it didn’t go on his record.
[Laura and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Do you think that was an afterthought on Jo’s part? Because when do we first see Scabbers? We do see him in the first book.
Rosie: Yeah, because [Ron says] “Turn that stupid, fat rat yellow,” on the train…
Kat: Right.
Rosie: …the very first time he meets Harry.
Kat: Hmm.
Noah: I think it might be because owls, toads, and… what’s the third? Somebody save me.
Alex, Kat, and Rosie: Cats.
Noah: And cats have some essential magical quality to them and that’s why they’re best suited. But maybe the Weasleys couldn’t necessarily afford those kind of animals, so maybe…
Rosie: Owls, cats, and toads are traditionally witches’ items whereas rats may not be.
Noah: Right. They might be un-magical and maybe the Weasleys made a deal with Dumbledore: “Let my kid use the rat, can’t afford anymore.”
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: I’m thinking that owls, cats, and toads are a traditional list from the early days of Hogwarts because we know that toads are now unfashionable in the wizarding world. So, maybe they just haven’t updated the letter since they allowed other pets to come as well.
Noah: That’s true.
Kat: That’s very possible.
Alex: And maybe that’s just a guideline for sizing…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: …for pets.
[Kat laughs]
Alex: Like, no bigger than an owl because you can’t really bring a lion or something.
[Alex and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Oh my God, that would be amazing!
Noah: What if someone brought a lion?
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: I know who would want that if they were here. That would be Caleb.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: What if Seamus just came to Transfiguration class like, “I’ve got a lion”?
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Jumping on the desk: “I’m not going to turn into a goblet, I’m going to turn into a…”
Kat: He would blow it up, that poor lion.
Laura: That’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Kat: [laughs] Yeah.
Rosie: Within that original comment though, Dream_Quaffle goes on to say that Lavender’s rabbit that we see gets killed in… a few chapters away, I think it’s this book, might be the next one.
Kat: It’s this book.
Rosie: Yeah. They were asking if the rabbit had been allowed at Hogwarts, would it still be alive and therefore, would the prophecy not have come true? So yeah, why wouldn’t rabbits be allowed? Especially if you’re pulling a rabbit out of a hat, that seems very magical to me.
Noah: I just got to back up for a second. A rabbit died in this book?
Alex: Yeah, Lavender’s.
Kat: Yes, we’ll get there, Noah. Don’t jump ahead.
Rosie: Gets killed by a fox.
Noah: That’s animal abuse, guys.
[Kat laughs]
Alex: Oh, God.
Rosie: Noah, read the books. How do you not know this? [laughs]
Noah: That’s why rabbits aren’t allowed at Hogwarts, because they’re not clever enough to get out of the way of these magical scenarios.
Kat: Yeah, but you know what? Owls aren’t clever either.
Rosie: It was killed by a fox! That’s not magical. [laughs]
Noah: [laughs] Never mind.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Okay, so our very last comment from last week comes from CatOak123 – “Cat” with a C not a K, just saying – and it’s about Head Boys. It says:
“I find it interesting that you guys mostly seem to assume that you have to be Prefect to put you in the running for Head Boyship. I guess this is taken from our Muggle experience where this is most certainly usually the case. However, I remember James Potter. He was Head Boy (remember Hagrid saying, ‘Your mum and dad were as good a witch and wizard as I ever knew. Head Boy and Girl at Hogwarts in their day!’), but if you remember in OotP, when Ron and Hermione get their Prefect badges, there is that discussion at the party in Grimmauld Place about who among the Order became Prefects in their day, and Sirius laughs and says that he and James spent too much time in detention to become Prefects, and that Lupin was the ‘good boy,’ he got the badge.”
Noah: Yup. I got stumped.
Kat: I feel like this is continuity problems.
Rosie: A bit like the whole…
Kat: Quite honestly. I don’t want to blame it on Jo, but I’m going to blame it on Jo.
Noah: I mean, she wrote the book, Kat.
Rosie: It does seem that there are mostly continuity things around James, like the whole was he a Chaser or a Seeker discussion as well.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: It could be just another one of those.
Noah: But is that messed up in the books, or is that only messed up in the movies?
Rosie: I think that’s probably movies.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah, it’s a book to movie conversion thing.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: So, that wouldn’t be Jo’s fault.
Kat: Well, she did approve it.
Rosie: But it… I think it’s book to movies because James is a Chaser, right? Not a Seeker…
Kat: Correct.
Rosie: …in the books. But we see him playing with a Snitch…
Kat: Correct.
Rosie: …later on. So, that’s where the tension lies.
Noah: Right.
Kat: Right.
Noah: However, on the question of do you have to be a Prefect before you can become a Head Boy or Girl, what do we say?
Kat: I think you do, quite honestly. I feel like… so, when… that was in Order of the Phoenix that he says that they were Head Girl and Boy?
Rosie: I think so.
Kat: I don’t… I don’t know.
Noah: No, I’d agree. I mean, that makes more sense to me. Let’s blame Jo.
[Everyone laughs]
Alex: And honestly, it’s just surprising me that James would be made Head Boy at all with his track record.
Kat: Right?
Alex: That seems like quite a character flaw error.
Kat: It’d be like making Fred Weasley Head Boy.
Alex: That’s what I mean. He doesn’t turn a page just because he’s dating Lily. I’m sure he would tone it down a bit.
Rosie: I think we are supposed to assume that, though. Yeah, we see James last in fifth year, right? They’re sitting their OWLs.
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: So, we don’t see him in sixth and seventh, which is around the time that he’s supposed to start dating Lily, and the idea is that he is meant to have become more mature. Otherwise, Lily would never have gotten together with him. So, maybe it’s having saved Snape’s life and things during that incident that we will find out about later in this book…
Noah: Right.
Rosie: …maybe that kind of shock actually makes him become more mature and realize that his actions have more consequences, and therefore becomes Head Boy.
Alex: Let’s hope so.
Noah: I have another thought related to it. Isn’t it true that the only evidence we have that James and Lily were Head Boy and Girl is from Hagrid?
Rosie: Yup.
Noah: So, remember Hagrid is an unreliable character. He doesn’t even spend too much time in the actual castle. He’s hanging out in the hut at this point. So, is it possible that Hagrid is either…
Rosie: He would have known that.
Noah: Is Hagrid confused? Or did he lie to Harry?
Kat: [laughs] I think Hagrid is always confused. I’m just saying.
Noah: Okay, so I don’t know if I necessarily trust Hagrid here. Maybe Hagrid thought that they were Head Boy and Girl, but actually they were just the only people who came to hang out with him from Hogwarts.
Alex: Okay, but would Joanne make her readers assume that?
[Rosie laughs]
Alex: That we’re like, “I’m going to write it down, but don’t believe it.”
Kat: I like how you went all formal and called her Joanne.
[Laura and Rosie laugh]
Alex: I call her Joanne in our YouTube videos all the time. I don’t know why.
Noah: Well, Joanne’s got a… you have to come clear on this if you’re listening to the episode.
[Alex and Kat laugh]
Noah: Just write in the forums – it’s Alohomora.MuggleNet.com.
Kat: She’d just put it out on Pottermore. That way, we’d know she’s listening.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Yes.
Rosie: So, yeah. It’s an interesting discussion, but we don’t necessarily have an answer for it. [laughs] Okay, we’ll now move on to discussing the special feature from last week, which was a What If? special feature. We asked three questions and you guys didn’t really tell us any answers unfortunately, but you did ask some of your own. So, to start with, we did have one question which was: What if Harry had gone to an orphanage rather than the Dursleys? And there is a great response to that on the archives from FawkesFan, which says:
“I think Harry would have turned out just the same if he had gone to a Muggle orphanage. No one would have known who he was, so he wouldn’t have gotten a big ego like Dumbledore feared. In fact, I think it would have been better if he had gone to the orphanage because Harry wouldn’t have been locked in a cupboard or been abused mentally and verbally. He would have gotten three meals a day, probably would have had some friends. I think Harry’s childhood would have been a lot happier, which is what he deserved and he would have still turned out to be the humble and brave Harry we all love.”
Do you guys agree?
Kat: Hmm. In theory I agree with that comment, but not in actuality. I think despite what we see, what little we see of the orphanage that Tom was at, we don’t know that the orphanage Harry would have gone to would have been like that one. And not being an orphan myself and never being to an orphanage, totally playing into the stereotype of what I think of when I think of an orphanage, I don’t know if Harry would have turned out all that happy, quite honestly.
Laura: But wasn’t originally Harry sent to Privet Drive because of the protection from Lily?
Kat: Yeah. Mhm. He was.
Laura: So, he would have never gone to an orphanage.
Alex: And if he went to an orphanage, there would be no protection there unless I guess there were special circumstances, but I think part of the appeal of going to the Dursleys was this protection.
Rosie: Yeah, he would have been in much more danger from kind of surviving Death Eaters and things.
Kat: Right, and I guess that’s kind of what I was saying before, that it’s better for him to be in a home where they don’t love him or appreciate him than to be dead.
Laura: Yes.
Kat: Pretty much.
Laura: Agreed.
Rosie: Okay. Wiseoldbaker asks:
“What if Harry wasn’t forgiven for blowing up Marge? It has to be a big deal because I do believe it was used against him in OotP.”
And iproudHufflepuff1 responds to this on the forums, saying:
“I just don’t really see how they wouldn’t forgive him for blowing up Marge. It is known in the wizarding community that accidental magic happens especially at a young age. I’m sure if it really did come into question with the Ministry of Magic to expell Harry, Dumbledore would have intervened like he did in OotP. He would have listened to Harry’s reasons for losing control and believed him. And there’s also the honest fact that he is Harry Potter, the Boy Who Lived. They wouldn’t be so quick to expell the boy who banished the Dark Lord. The only reason it was in question in OotP was because Fudge was so adamant about believing that Voldemort wasn’t back because he didn’t want the wizarding world to panic.”
And I completely agree with that.
Kat: That’s true. Yeah, I feel like the timing of the blowing up Aunt Marge was everything because if it had happened even one year later, I’m not sure he would have gotten the same treatment, quite honestly, because, yes, part of the reason he was not expelled is because of the whole Sirius Black thing and because he was the Boy Who Lived, but the Ministry of Magic’s perspective on Harry changes a lot…
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: …in a very short time.
Noah: Yeah, that is…
Rosie: When he is almost expelled, it’s because they’re trying to discredit him.
Kat: Exactly.
Noah: Isn’t it possible at this point too that Fudge wants to protect Harry and maybe feels that he’d be safer at Hogwarts?
Kat: Oh, absolutely. I think that’s exactly why he did what he did.
Noah: Yeah, Fudge cares too.
Rosie: Definitely.
Kat: Well, he cares now. He doesn’t care a few years later.
Rosie: No.
Kat: But yeah.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Cool.
Rosie: Okay, and HP Alison, again, asks:
“What if Lupin had told Dumbledore earlier in the year that Sirius was an Animagus? Would Sirius have been caught and tossed to the Dementors? Or would Sirius have been able to tell Dumbledore the truth in time for them all to go after Scabbers/Peter?”
Kat: That’s such a good question.
Rosie: It’s a very good question and we’ve got an answer from CentaurSeeker121, and it says:
“I think that if Remus had told Dumbledore earlier in the year that Sirius was an Animagus, then it probably would not have taken Dumbledore too long to figure out that James and Peter were as well. I feel like Dumbledore would have been able to come to the right conclusion much faster (meaning that it was Peter and not Sirius) and that Sirius would have been able to be pardoned.”
Kat: Yeah, I agree with that.
Noah: It’s possible. I mean, does… Lupin never says anything to Dumbledore the entire time?
Kat: No. How stupid is that?
Noah: Yeah.
Alex: I think…
Rosie: Probably doesn’t want to get his friends in trouble, but they were already dead. [laughs]
Alex: Yeah, I think it goes back to just, yeah, that – worried about getting in trouble because technically they are unregistered with the Ministry and I’m sure they all had a pact like, “And we’ll never tell anyone about this!”
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: But it is ridiculous, if you think about it, because two of them are already supposedly dead and the other one is a wanted criminal. [laughs]
Kat: Right.
Alex: But to be fair, Lupin thought Sirius was guilty that whole time and so, maybe he was just… I don’t know. That’s a good point, though. He probably should have just been a good guy and…
Kat: Told him.
Alex: …told Dumbledore. [laughs]
Noah: What if he did?
Rosie: Especially if he was the last one surviving to try and protect Harry. You would have thought he would have…
Noah: If he had said something, though…
Rosie: …done everything.
Noah: …he would have been made public and then he would have lost his role at Hogwarts completely.
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: I guess.
Alex: So, was he just watching out for himself by not saying anything?
Kat: Hmm.
Noah: In a way.
Rosie: Interesting.
Kat: I mean, that doesn’t seem like Lupin to me, but yeah. Maybe.
Noah: Putting Harry’s life at risk just for his own tenure?
Rosie: I guess it’s the same…
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Rosie: …Lupin that we see when he runs away from Tonks when she’s pregnant.
Kat: It is, right. That’s very true. What house is Lupin in? Do we know?
Rosie: Gryffindor.
Kat: He was a Gryffindor, right?
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: Yup.
Rosie: They all were.
Noah: Of course.
Kat: Hmm. Do we think he fits that house?
Noah: He’s a pretty brave guy.
Rosie: Maybe we should discuss it another time when we get more information on Lupin.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Oh, yes. Hopefully coming up on Pottermore, please!
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Joanne, come on!
Laura: Yeah, Joanne!
[Kat and Laura laugh]
Noah: Joanne, we’re calling you out.
[Alex laughs]
Kat: Okay, go ahead, Noah. Take it.
Noah: Okay. So, here are some responses to the Posed Question of the Week from last week. I’m going to read it again just so we all get clear on it:
“We know that Dementors make you dwell on your deepest darkest thoughts, and that makes them useful tools of torture in the wizard world prison, Azkaban. They also disincentivize no-good magic folk to commit crimes by instilling fear. But what if, hypothetically, Dementors were changed and they made victims feel uncontrollable bliss or relive happy memories instead of making them relive their worst saddest moments? Do you think this would function better for the prison – i.e. less breakouts? Are there any ethical concerns with Dementors being changed in this way? And which would you prefer if happiness was used as a tool instead of using sadness and fear with the Dementors?”
So, that’s a pretty complex question. Rosie, I think you really… you gave that to me for the last episode if I may credit you.
Kat: I believe that that was Eric, but yeah.
Rosie: It was Eric.
Noah: Never mind. Forget it, Rosie. It was Eric. Thank you, Eric, if you’re listening. [laughs] But we have one comment from Dream_Quaffle, which is a very cool name:
“I think most people would much rather be forced to relive their happiest memories than their worst, but as far as the inhabitants of Azkaban are concerned I don’t think it would work very well if the Dementors were reversed. A witch or wizard is sent to Azkaban to be punished for their crimes, not go on a vacation. What kind of message does it send about the magical judicial system if all you get for using an Unforgivable Curse is a sentence of sitting in a cell and only being able to think about things that make you happy? It almost provides an incentive to become a criminal.”
Well…
[Alex laughs]
Noah: I don’t know about that. Has anyone ever read 1984?
Kat: Oh God, a really long time ago, but I did read it.
Alex: Yeah, same.
Noah: Yeah. So, they definitely employ torture there and that becomes a way or an incentive not to commit crimes. But in a way, if you’re reliving happy moments forever, you’re trapped within your own mind and you can’t actually go out there and be a person. So, I don’t know if that’s really a fun time, Dream_Quaffle. What do you guys think?
Alex: I think that… you know in Half-Blood Prince when they talk about an overdose of Felix Felicis and how it would have symptoms of overconfidence and extreme giddiness? I think that’s kind of what would happen here. I think people would have overconfidence and maybe there would be more breakouts because they think they can do it and they’d be so happy that they wouldn’t really know what they were there for. I don’t think happiness would increase remorse and make criminals feel bad about what they did. I think it would…
Noah: Yeah.
Alex: …have the opposite effect.
Noah: Well, I mean it depends. I guess it depends on what your view of a prison should be. Should it be a place where that person is forever tormented? Or should it be a place where they’re merely contained and you’re keeping them away from innocent people in the community? Because I think the latter suggestion is more important than the former because at that point they’re already imprisoned. What’s the good in torturing them because they’re already there for however long? But if this… if the happiness actually keeps them there, that seems to be better for the prison system in a way and probably better for the society, no?
Alex: Yeah. I think it just goes back to the comment from Dream_Quaffle about how that’s not really a punishment. It’s more of a vacation. I think happy Dementors should almost more be used in a rehabilitation center. Most prisons are rehabilitative, but Azkaban seems like you’re just sitting in a cell. You’re not really doing activities or anything. So, I think happy Dementors should more be used for maybe mental institutions to keep up morale than a punishment center.
Laura: But then you…
Kat: I totally just got a picture in my head of Bellatrix playing shuffleboard.
[Laura laughs]
Alex: Yeah. They’re not doing activities, they’re just sitting.
Laura: Well, you then have the question of, when they’re released from Azkaban are they going to do the same crime again because they had this happy time in Azkaban, they just want to go back, you know?
Noah: But the thing… yeah.
Alex: Are all Azkaban sentences life sentences? Or can they just be, like, two years?
Noah: That’s always been pretty ambiguous. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah. I mean, Hagrid obviously gets out, but that’s because his name was cleared.
Alex and Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: I don’t know.
Noah: I just…
Rosie: Read the next comment, Noah. Read the one from QueenSilver because it’s interesting.
Noah: I will, I will, but my personal view on this is if you’re containing them, that’s what you really need to do. All right, this is from QueenSilver171:
“This question reminds me of something I once heard about the Swedish prison system. I’m not sure if it pertains to all prisons or just a few, but there are some that are called therapeutic communities. The prisoners live in their own homes or apartments in a gated community. They cook for themselves, and then get up everyday to go to their own individual job within the community. The prisoners work together harmoniously to keep up their own community. I also read that some prisons have field trips where the prisoners do community service outside the prison, in order to keep them connected to the outside world. This prison system seems to be successful in a lot of ways, although I believe this form of punishment would be good for some prisoners, those with lesser sentences. I can’t imagine Bellatrix Lestrange being treated this way after all she has done without remorse.”
Yeah. So, I guess that does kind of sound like a vacation, but…
Kat: Well, no actually. We have, actually, some programs like that in the prisons in my area. Yes, it’s not for people like Bellatrix Lestrange who go about and murder endlessly, but they grow community gardens and things like that. So…
Alex: I think that kind of prison system would work for a petty thief like Mundungus…
Kat: Right, right.
Alex: …and maybe happy Dementors could be used for him. But in terms of Bellatrix and all those kinds of Death Eaters, I really don’t think it would work well on them. I think they would just take advantage of it and plan their next breakout because…
Kat: Yeah. I feel like the best solution, honestly, would be a little bit of both because… I think that’s where the conflict comes in, is when you’re… maybe they suck out all your good memories, and then they give you one really good one and make you miss it, and then they take it away again.
Noah: That’s terrible.
Rosie: I have a friend who is studying criminal psychology and is hoping to go into a career rehabilitating prisoners and that kind of thing – in fact, it’s Nicola who was on one of our first episodes for Philosopher’s Stone – but she is really interested in this idea of prison systems and how they work because our current prison system definitely in the UK, and I think definitely probably the US and other places as well, is not particularly good at actually stopping crime.
Kat: Right, I know.
Rosie: It will just kind of take you away, put you in a place where you are surrounded by other prisoners who could, you know, teach you things, and then you’re released and you can go out and do the same things again. But if you had… the main idea is to take you away from the kind of environment that is causing you to commit the crimes. So if you think about Death Eaters, they are actually kind of a concept of gang violence. They are all doing it because of one specific mentality…
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: …and they are all doing it as a team with that kind of idea going on. So if you could split up the Death Eaters and rehabilitate them in a way that is very different from the way that they’re currently looked at, if you weren’t kind of focusing on the bad thoughts, and you were kind of teaching them the good of life in a more happy way, do you think that it could have actually changed who they were?
Alex: I think for people like maybe the Malfoys, that could change them. But Bellatrix seems pretty set in her ways.
Kat: [laughs] I would agree.
Rosie: Bellatrix is kind of crazy though by the time we see her.
Alex: With this debate, it’s kind of hard to not put your own political views of our prisons into this.
Laura: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah.
Alex: Because, Of course, I believe that a prison should have rehabilitation and send people back into society, hopefully more better people. But it’s hard to say this for wizarding prisons because Dementors are so black and white. They are either your worst memories, or your best memories as in this type of hypothetical situation. So obviously worst memories aren’t exactly helping because we can see that, but happy, extreme happiness probably wouldn’t help either. So like Kat was saying, you kind of do need a mix of the both, but that’s not really an option in terms of Dementors, otherwise we would just have normal, wizarding guards. They’re a mix of both. [laughs]
Rosie: Sure.
Noah: All right, so we have one more comment. It’s from Auror… is that 007 or is that OO7? Oh, double-oh-seven.
Kat and Rosie: Double-oh-seven.
Noah: Sorry. James Bond here. Auror double-oh-seven.
“I believe happiness could be used as a successful tool for punishment. Being continually happy could easily become addictive. Take the ‘reverse Dementors’ away and the prisoners would start to go through withdrawal. The people would effectively become prisoners of their own addiction as well as physically incarcerated. To me, this seems just as morally questionable as using normal Dementors. People who are mistakenly placed in Azkaban (thinking of Hagrid here) can easily be released when normal Dementors are in place. With reverse Dementors, being released might only be a continuation of the punishment. Constant happiness might seem better, but it would leave normal life to look dull and depressing.”
And I’m just going to add this comment, that that might make you cause crime just to go back to Azkaban. Which is a very, very good point, AurorOO7. I did not think of that. So if these reverse Dementors were going to be used, it would have to be in a case where these people would not be released, I guess.
Kat: Yeah, or I think too, saying where you… it says… of course now I have to find the part I was talking about.
Noah: Doo-bi-doo.
Kat: Oh, it says where the prisoners would go through withdrawal from the reverse Dementors.
Noah: Exactly.
Kat: That’s what I’m saying. You give it to them and you take it away. You give it to them and you take it away. No matter what we come up with, it’s going to be pretty bad for these prisoners.
Noah: I mean, it’s prison.
Kat: Yeah.
Alex: Have you guys seen Inception?
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: Yeah.
Alex: You know that one part where people pay to go live their dreams in that sketchy basement?
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Oh, yeah.
Alex: I feel like that’s what this would be like.
Noah: It’s exactly like that.
Kat: Hmm.
Laura: Yeah, I’m getting these visions of prisoners being really good just to relive one happy memory and then when they are bad they’re not allowed to have any. That’s what I keep seeing.
Noah: Has anyone here ever read the Pendragon book series?
Kat: Nope.
Noah: Because there is this one book in which the character goes to a land where everyone gets plugged into these computers and they just live these happy lives and they are fed through intravenous tubes their whole lives.
Kat: [laughs] Sounds like Avatar.
[Laura laughs]
Noah: Yeah, Avatar has aspects of it too, at least for the humans who do that. I’m actually working on a book that has a similar philosophy.
Alex: Whoa!
Rosie: It’s the concept of The Matrix as well, isn’t it? You’ve got this horrible life but you don’t know it because you’re plugged into the Matrix.
Noah: Exactly. Yup.
Kat: Right. Exactly.
Noah: All right. So now that we’ve gotten the Posed Question of the Week out of the way… actually, let me back up for a second and say that if you want to comment on the Question of the Week ever, make sure to visit Alohomora.MuggleNet.com. It’s on the front page and we read comments directly from there for that particular section. And now we are jumping into Chapters 5 and 6 of Prisoner of Azkaban, “The Dementor,” “Talons and Tea Leaves.”
[Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 5 intro begins]
[Sounds of train stopping and ominous noises]
Michael: Chapter 5: “The Dementor.”
Lupin: Expecto Patronum!
[Sound of spell being cast]
[Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 5 intro ends]
Rosie: So in Chapter 5, “The Dementor,” we are finally heading off to Hogwarts. And we start the chapter by seeing Harry getting a personal wake up call, with a cup of tea, from Tom the barman before Ron barges in and kind of starts complaining that Percy is being a nightmare again because he has… he is accusing Ron of spilling tea on his picture of Penelope Clearwater…
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Rosie: …who is now hiding her nose outside of the picture.
Noah: Oh, Percy!
Rosie: [laughs] We then go downstairs to the bar, or to the main room of the Leaky Cauldron at least. The Leaky Cauldron? Yeah, the Leaky Cauldron. And we see Mr. Weasley is frowning at the front page of the Daily Prophet. Do we think this is an article about Sirius again, or is there something even worse going on in the world?
Kat: I think that he’s frowning because of his fight with Molly.
Rosie: Could be.
Kat: That’s the vibe I got.
Noah: Whoa.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Didn’t think about that.
Alex: Yeah, he’s probably… he’s thinking about the fight with Molly and looking at this Sirius situation getting more and more increased, and he probably thinks he’s in the right. Like we really should tell Harry and so he’s frowning because he’s like, “This is getting serious. Even is enough.”
Kat: Oh, pun intended?
Alex: Yeah!
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Nice.
Rosie: Meanwhile, Mrs. Weasley is talking to Hermione and Ginny about a love potion anecdote, when she created a love potion when she was younger. So she’s obviously not bothered by the fight in the same way that Mr. Weasley is, if you are saying that is why he is frowning.
Kat: That’s because she thinks she won.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Do you think she won Arthur Weasley over with a love potion, and that’s why they married and had ten kids? Of course it is not actually ten, that was an exaggeration, but…
[Everyone laughs]
Alex: I don’t think so.
Rosie: No, I think their love is much more real than that.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: They’re a happy family.
Noah: Well, yeah.
Kat: Yeah, Mrs. Weasley doesn’t seem like the love potion type to me, but I feel like this is just a… I don’t know.
Alex: This is kind of a…
Rosie: Why is this mentioned? Is it just meant to be foreshadowing for the scene that we do see in Order of the Phoenix with… is it Order of the Phoenix?
Kat: No, it’s Book 6.
Rosie: No, it’s Half-Blood Prince.
Kat: That’s the thing. So, circle theory doesn’t work on this.
Rosie: Oh, dear. [laughs] But again, that’s when we see love potions.
Kat: Right.
Noah: Well, there are certain gender stereotypes that are activating when three of them are sitting around a love potion, but I’m not going to go into that.
Alex: I think this is kind of a risque story for Mrs. Weasley, too.
Kat: Right?
Rosie: Yeah, why would she be telling her daughter this? [laughs]
Alex: I know! Love potions are outlawed in a lot of places in the wizarding world, and here she is openly talking, “Yeah, I’ve done it!”
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: What kind of story is she telling them? If we really think about it.
Rosie: Well, if she…
Kat: Not a saucy story, I don’t think.
Rosie: …created a love potion and used it, then…
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Did she seduce some guy at Hogwarts with this potion and…
[Alex laughs]
Kat: Hagrid.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Noah: No.
Rosie: No.
Noah: Oh, no!
Kat: Just kidding. That’s a fan fiction waiting to happen.
[Rosie laughs]
Alex: Oh, God! [laughs]
Noah: I don’t even think that one is physically possible.
[Prolonged silence]
Kat: Okay, well…
[Alex laughs]
Kat: …Hagrid was born, so we know it’s physically possible. Between a human and a giant. We’ve discussed this.
Alex: [laughs] So have we!
Laura: Yeah, me and Alex discussed it in one of our videos.
Noah: But there’s still a lot of ambiguity and mechanics…
Kat: Yeah, let’s not get into that.
Rosie: [laughs] We don’t need to discuss the mechanics!
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: That’s the title, right there.
Rosie: Anyway…
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: …the Ministry cars have turned up to take all of them off to Platform 9 3/4, and they’re quite interesting in their description of being dark green and old-fashioned. It seemed quite nice that wizarding cars would be wizarding-appropriate colors, green or purple. And that they are old-fashioned, not with the times, because the Ministry hasn’t kept up on it.
Kat: I feel like… yeah, I was going to say. I feel like that speaks exactly to what the Ministry is.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Dark and old-fashioned.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Like nothing has been updated for years. That’s how it feels.
Alex: That’s the whole wizarding world, though. It kind of all got stuck in this one time period where the Muggle world kept evolving technology-wise, and they just… I feel like one day, they were just like, “Yeah, we’re going to stop here.”
Kat: Yeah, we’re done.
Alex: And that’s a reflection of the model of the cars. They’re like, “Yeah, we’re good. No more updating.”
Kat: How long had Fudge been in office at this point?
Rosie: Umm…
Kat: Does anyone know?
Rosie: A few years.
Kat: I’m going to Google it.
Noah: I love modern technology.
[Alex and Kat laugh]
Kat: I know. It’s pretty amazing, right?
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: So this is 1993 that we’re in right now?
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Okay, so Fudge had been in office three years. I was just thinking that maybe… moving forward in the Ministry, it stopped when Fudge came in office. But that’s obviously not the case.
Rosie: No. Problems in the Ministry have been around much longer than that. If you think about the first rise of Voldemort and everything as well. We see that Mr. Weasley is being a very subtle bodyguard, in that no one else notices that he is hanging on to Harry like a limpet. [laughs] He will not let him out of his sight, and he even walks him to the car and goes through the barrier at [Platform] 9 3/4 with him, whereas normally he would say that Harry and Ron go in together. So once we are on [Platform] 9 3/4, we see that Ginny and Ron come in after Harry and Mr. Weasley, and they have taken the barrier at a run. And I was wondering if…
Kat: Wait, isn’t it Percy?
Rosie: I’m fairy sure it’s Ginny and Ron.
Kat: I think it’s Percy. Because then he goes over and he puffs his chest out for Penelope.
Laura: That’s right.
Rosie: I thought he came through after.
Noah: This is going to be…
Rosie: I thought it was Ginny and Ron, and then Percy afterwards.
Noah: New feature on the show: Host Battle.
[Alex and Kat laugh]
Rosie: Anyway…
Noah: Who is right?
Rosie: Either way, I was wondering if they had ran because of a slight fear of what was going on through last year. So, I guess it wouldn’t really work if it’s not Ron because I was linking that with Dobby.
Alex: We just looked it up, and it is Percy and Ginny that come through.
Rosie: Okay. Then, either way, [laughs] Ginny still could have the bad memories of last year, but that doesn’t really matter anymore. Never mind.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: End of battle. Kat wins.
Alex: I don’t know if you guys… I can’t remember if you guys discussed this in the first year podcasts, but do you notice that there’s never a line up to get into Platform 9 3/4?
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah, we have discussed this at some point in the past…
Alex: Okay.
Rosie: …and I don’t think we ever came up with a solution.
Alex: We were just discussing it last night, and we just thought it was hilarious that the Weasleys always get there, literally, within ten minutes for some reason, [laughs] and there’s never any rush. No rush hour for…
Rosie: You’d think with all of these hundreds of wizards trying to get on this train that there would be more people around.
Laura: Exactly.
Alex: Yup.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: They’re just very efficient at getting them through the barrier, apparently.
Alex: I guess so.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: The Weasleys are just always too late. No one would show up ten minutes before. That’s silly.
[Kat laughs]
Alex: Well, are Seamus and Dean getting there an hour before? Where… you never run into them on the platform.
Noah: They could be camping out the day before.
[Alex laughs]
Noah: Because they are so pumped up for a new Harry Potter book.
Kat: Maybe it’s like the Quidditch World Cup and they give you staggered times to show up.
Rosie: But everyone knows that the train leaves at eleven. We don’t ever find a time other than that to get there.
Kat: That’s true.
Rosie: Who knows. [laughs]
Kat: Hmm.
Rosie: Anyway, Ginny and Harry share a look when Percy walks off to find Penelope, and they attempt not to giggle. And, I think, this was the first moment in the series that I actually believed that something might happen between them at some point.
Noah: Good catch.
Rosie: Because it’s just a stereotypical “these two might become romantic” look, isn’t it?
Kat: Oh, totally. Yeah.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Yeah. The inside joke giggle. Heeheehee.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: I had no idea.
Rosie: We see this a lot more later on, when Harry starts to feel jealous after that summer that they spend together.
Kat: In Book 5.
Rosie: In Book 5, so it’s an interesting bit of circular momentary again. We see that Mr. Weasley actually defies his wife and the Ministry of Magic and actually does pull Harry aside to tell him about Sirius, but Harry says that he already knows. That he overheard them accidentally, and he isn’t afraid of Sirius in comparison to Voldemort. And I think we discussed this last week, but it shows that Harry is really quite brave, but also that he knows that Voldemort is the ultimate enemy, and that Sirius is just not quite as scary.
Kat: Right.
Alex: Or, does Harry not have enough education on the subject? He heard the story on the Knight Bus and he’s heard their argument, but maybe he’s just not fully aware of the…
Kat: He is a little foolhardy. He’s a little…
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: …reckless. Yeah.
Rosie: But ultimately he feels safe at Hogwarts. Like he’s always said…
Kat: Right.
Noah: Mhm.
Rosie: …if Voldemort is afraid of Dumbledore, then Sirius must be too.
Alex: It’s strange to me that all these kids are like, “But we’re at Hogwarts!” Well, you know what? About ten of your classmates die every year, so it’s…
[Everyone laughs]
Alex: …interesting to me that you guys feel this insane safety. [laughs]
Kat: [laughs] Yeah.
Rosie: No one’s died yet. Only next year.
Alex: Oh yeah, that starts it. That starts the ball rolling.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: It does. That’s true.
Noah: Hmm.
Rosie: Ultimately the message is, don’t go looking for Sirius Black, and we get this repeated several times throughout the next three pages, I think it is. And Harry kind of goes, why does everyone always think that I’ll go looking for trouble? [laughs] And it’s because, Harry, you do.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: Mhm.
Rosie: Harry then pulls…
Noah: And also because Arthur thinks that Harry might realize that…
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: …he betrayed his parents.
Rosie: That’s the thing…
Kat: Well, Harry is not one to let things sit. So as soon as he finds out that Sirius supposedly was the one who got his parents murdered, he’s going to want revenge for that.
Noah and Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: So…
Noah: But that’s what Arthur is referencing here, though, right?
Kat: Exactly. Mhm.
Rosie: Do we think that Arthur and Molly had discussed this and Harry just missed that part? So Arthur thinks Harry knows more than he actually does?
Noah: Ooh. That’s very possible.
Kat: Hmm.
Rosie: It’s not very important either way, but it’s just an interesting thought.
Kat: Well, no. I don’t think… do you think that James and Sirius… I mean that Arthur and Molly – wow, I don’t know where that came from – do you think that they know that he’s Harry’s godfather?
Rosie: I think that Dumbledore would have told them because Harry was staying with them for the summer.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: There’s a threat level there if Sirius was looking for Harry.
Kat: Okay. Right.
Rosie: And it would be an extra reason why…
Kat: So, yeah. I would assume that then… that yes, they spoke about that and Harry just didn’t hear that part.
Rosie: Sure.
Alex: Do we think that most people know that? Like in the wizarding world, obviously Fudge knows that, but do most people know that he’s his godfather and they’re all just keeping it from him? Or do only select people know about it?
Rosie: Well, we know that Malfoy definitely knows.
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: So, how would Malfoy know? Other than…
Alex: So, that’s why I feel like it might be common knowledge.
Kat: I think Malfoy knows because Voldemort knew, and therefore…
Rosie: Does Voldemort know, though? Because it’s not a particularly important thing. I think that it’s just one of those kind of bits of information that the media would definitely pick up on in making an event look more tragic than it was. So not only was Harry’s parents killed and so he’s orphaned, but he managed to defeat the Dark Lord. But the person who betrayed them was his godfather. It makes it that much worse.
Kat: If that were the case, I feel like that would have been in the article about Sirius in the Daily Prophet.
Rosie: Maybe.
Kat: It would have said, “Sirius, godfather to Harry Potter.” I feel like if that was common knowledge, reporters definitely would have put that in there.
Rosie: But at the same time, they’re trying to vilify him, so they wouldn’t necessarily link him with a good character in that way.
Kat: No, I don’t know. I worked at a newspaper for a while, and I definitely think they would have put that in there. I, personally even, writing that article, would have put that in there.
Laura: Yeah, and it’s like this dramatic piece in your article where you’re like, “Oh, this man is on the loose, but he’s looking for Harry Potter.” So that adds more attraction.
Rosie: But the Ministry is trying to keep it quiet, aren’t they? We see that when we meet… maybe not. I don’t know. I would have thought that the Ministry would have been trying to keep it quiet and therefore censoring the newspaper as they do later on.
Laura: That’s a good point.
Alex: Good point.
[Laura and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Anyway, Harry pulls aside Ron and Hermione and says that he needs to talk to them in private, which obviously means no Ginny because they have no other friends.
[Everyone laughs]
Rosie: And they walk through the train, trying to find a free compartment and only find the last one free. How big is this train if every single compartment is full apart from one?
Alex: Okay, did you guys… I don’t know if anyone has clarified this, but there’s that weird mistake on page 58 of our books about how the Weasleys took them on the train. Harry and Mr. Weasley led the way to the end of the train, past packed compartments, to a carriage that looked quite empty. They loaded the trunks onto it and stowed Hedwig and Crookshanks into the luggage rack…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: …and then they went back outside. And then later on, Lupin is in their compartment, which Laura and I were trying to figure out. Compartment and carriage are obviously different things. But the luggage rack that they put Hedwig and Crookshanks in must be in their compartment.
Kat: Right.
Alex: So, wouldn’t Lupin already be in there? How did he just KO snooze within five minutes of them getting there?
[Kat and Laura laugh]
Rosie: I think that one is definitely an example of a mistake in the book.
Laura: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Alex: Because obviously Mr. Weasley would have recognized Lupin, [laughs] so…
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: Speaking of recognizing Lupin, [laughs] Lupin has sat in… or is… yeah, sat in this compartment fast asleep, and he is described for the first time as “shabby with darned clothes.” He’s quite young, but his hair is flecked with gray. And his case says “Professor RJ Lupin” in peeling letters. And the fact that it said “Professor” on his case got me thinking, how long has he been a professor? This is his first year.
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: Why would it be peeling on his case already if it’s only just been stuck on?
Noah: That’s a good point.
Alex: Yeah, what [are] the qualifications for professors in the wizarding world? They obviously don’t have to go to teachers college.
Kat: None, obviously. [laughs]
Alex: But it just seems strange that here’s Lupin with peeling letters of “Professor” on his case and so it seems like he’s had some previous experience. Whereas Hagrid, later on…
Rosie: Hagrid becomes a professor in this one as well, yeah. He’s definitely not got the qualifications.
Alex: Yeah, and he’s totally… he’s not even a qualified wizard…
[Rosie laughs]
Alex: …and they’re like, “Yeah, teach our children. Go for it.”
[Kat and Laura laugh]
Noah: But back to the old question, where could he possibly have been teaching if not Hogwarts?
Alex: Exactly.
Noah: And what did he need to get that degree to teach?
Rosie: Do you think he went out into the Muggle world when he was kind of outcast by the wizarding one, so he’s actually a proper professor?
Kat: Hmm.
Noah: Ooh.
Alex: Can you see Lupin teaching biology in grade 11 science classes? [laughs]
Rosie: Probably not, but it would be interesting. [laughs]
Alex: It just seems so odd to me. I feel like Joanne would have mentioned that somewhere along the way.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Well, we’re still waiting for his backstory, so…
Alex: Oh, fair enough.
Rosie: What has he been doing all these years?
Kat: Right. I don’t know, I feel like it had to say “Professor RJ Lupin” otherwise how would Hermione know he was a professor?
Alex: Yeah.
Kat: You know, it…
Noah: The peeling letters?
Rosie: Who else would he be? [laughs]
Kat: It’s just one of those things that had to be there.
Noah: Well, why the peeling letters? That didn’t have to be there.
Kat: Because he’s poor.
Laura: I was going to say something like maybe he just went to a really weird store to get it done and they didn’t do a very good job.
[Alex, Kat, and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Yeah, exactly.
Alex: Because it was cheap.
Rosie: I’ve always wondered why was he on the train. I’ve always assumed that the night before would have been the last night of a full moon, and therefore he had to get the train to get to Hogwarts on time or something.
Noah: Oh.
Alex: We wondered if Lupin was placed there for Harry’s protection…
Rosie: Yeah, maybe.
Alex: …by like… I don’t know if a small version of the Order was in the running, just under wraps. We know the full thing comes back in the fifth book, but did Dumbledore place him there like, “Keep an eye out, bud,” and place him there?
Kat: Probably because we know that Dumbledore is the…
Alex and Laura: Yeah.
Kat: …you know, orchestrating his life.
Alex: I think he was there on orders to protect him, and thank God he was. [laughs]
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: So, Harry tells Ron and Hermione about what he’s overheard about Sirius and they are much more shocked and afraid than Harry ever was. So much so that Harry even says that it’s worse than he expected. Is this because they know more about Azkaban, so they know kind of how dangerous Sirius is if he’s actually managed to escape from this thing? Because Harry really doesn’t have any information about the prison yet.
Laura: Well, I’m sure Hermione’s information on Sirius is all from Daily Prophet and stuff because she reads everything. And Ron obviously was brought up in the wizarding world, so he kind of knows the dangers of Azkaban.
Kat: Yeah.
Alex: So, they’re obviously much more educated than Harry on this man.
Laura: Yeah.
Kat: As usual.
Alex: Yup.
Kat: I mean, Hermione knows more about Harry’s life than Harry.
Alex: [laughs] Yeah.
Rosie: But even so, the information they have is wrong. Sirius isn’t someone to be afraid of.
Kat: Well, according to popular opinion. Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah. But it’s another example of Jo making you think one thing only to twist it on its head later on.
Kat: Mhm.
Alex: Yup.
Rosie: Very clever. [laughs] We find out that the Sneakoscope is actually going off at this point while they are discussing Sirius and it makes you think, is it that Peter is listening in at this point? We’ve kind of picked out that the rat always seems to be around when the Sneakoscope is mentioned. But could it also be that… is Lupin really asleep, or is he awake and listening in on their conversation just as much as Peter is?
Alex: When I read it…
Rosie: Or is there something else going on?
Alex: When I read it, I assumed it was because Lupin was awake. That’s how I always read it.
Rosie: Me too.
Alex: And I didn’t even think about Peter until I read it on our little document here. I was like, “Oh yeah, that could be the reason!”
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Well, I mean, how much has Peter overheard over the years?
Kat: A lot.
Laura: Yeah, it really makes you think. Peter is around for everything.
Noah: He must know them all intimately.
Alex: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah.
Rosie: I think Peter would probably listen whenever he hears Sirius’ name. He would make a point of listening in.
Noah: I think that was actually…
Alex: Yeah, because when he can go back to Voldemort and he has this file folder of information from the Weasleys just from being overheard.
Laura: Yeah.
Kat: And then they brush their teeth at 7 PM…
[Alex and Rosie laugh]
Noah: But shouldn’t Jo have played that card later in the series? Have Peter Pettigrew just come up, “Oh, I know what you guys were doing this time,” kind of like an inside joke and then they remember, “Oh, he was the rat.” I feel like she never throws us any of those curveballs, you know?
Rosie: That…
Kat: She doesn’t need to.
Rosie: See, your concept of Peter interests me because do you guys actually think that he was always intending to go back to Voldemort if he came back? Because I really don’t think Peter is that clever. I think he is afraid and he was tricked into it… well, not really tricked into it, but he was weak enough to become a Death Eater and do Voldemort’s bidding.
Laura: Yeah, I’m sure he thought that he was going to remain a rat for…
Rosie: Yeah.
Laura: …probably the rest of his life and then he was given this random opportunity to escape.
Rosie: Yeah, which he took.
Laura: And I think the only… yeah, and I think the only choice he had to remain, I guess, in his human form or his wizard form was to go back to Voldemort.
Rosie: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah, agreed.
Rosie: He wouldn’t have done it unless he knew that it would have been helpful to himself.
Laura: Yeah.
Kat: He would have been perfectly happy being a rat the rest of his life.
Rosie: Yeah. So when he’s actually listening in, I don’t think he’s listening for information to pass on. I think he’s just listening for things that might actually affect himself. So Sirius, if Sirius has escaped, that’s why he gets ill because he’s starting to worry that Sirius is coming to look for him. Okay, so the Sneakoscope is stuffed into Vernon’s old sock where it will remain until at least Christmas. I think that’s in this book. It may even be the Christmas far in the future. But then we hear abut Hogsmeade again and we hear about some of its fantastic wizarding shops that we will hopefully get to see sometime in the future, and we learn that it’s the only non-Muggle village in Britain.
Alex: So does that mean that it’s unplottable like Hogwarts? Like there are a bunch of enchantments to keep it that way, or are they just lucky?
[Laura laughs]
Kat: No, it’s probably under the whole thing as… no, it’s not under the same protections as Hogwarts because in Half-Blood Prince they’re able to…
Laura: Apparate.
Rosie: They’re able to…
Kat: What’s it called?
Noah: Apparate.
Rosie: …Apparate.
Kat Apparate, that’s it. [laughs]
Noah: That’s the word.
Rosie: I would assume it does have Muggle repelling charms and things as well, though, because it is so closely linked to Hogwarts that it would be dangerous for Muggles to be there.
Alex: Yeah.
Kat: Right.
Alex: So what about people like the Grangers if they want to meet up with Hermione for lunch in Hogsmeade on her field trip? That’s not a thing that can happen? Aww, poor Grangers never get to see their daughter.
[Laura laughs]
Rosie: Aww. [laughs]
Noah: Well, I mean, is Hogsmeade segregated against Muggles? I’m just going to put that out there.
Alex and Laura: Whoa.
Noah: Some sort of racial…
[Alex laughs]
Noah: Yeah, think about that.
Laura I don’t know, that’s…
Noah: They’re actually not allowed to be there because of their race.
Laura: That’s opening another can of worms.
[Everyone laughs]
Alex: Is it more for security, though? Maybe… I think it’s just for safety purposes, not…
Rosie: I would assume it would be like Diagon Alley and we’ve seen that the Grangers…
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: …can actually go into Diagon Alley. So maybe it’s… yeah, I think the Grangers could probably go to Hogsmeade because they actually know about it, but normal Muggles would…
Noah: If they know about it, right.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: But it probably… random Muggles who’d walk by would probably be, “Oh, this is interesting! Oh, wait. What? Where am I?” And then turn around…
Alex: Yeah.
Noah: …kind of thing.
Rosie: Yeah, they’d remember something important to do somewhere else.
Noah: Yup.
Rosie: So, we get the description of the Shrieking Shack, which is called “The most haunted building in Britain.” And this made me really think because we are used to Hogwarts where we see ghosts floating around everywhere. There’s so many of them in Hogwarts. How many do they think are in the Shrieking Shack? And why is it something to be afraid of…
Alex: Well, it’s interesting because…
Rosie: …if we see friendly ghosts everywhere else.
Alex: …they mention later on about the Shrieking Shack… I can’t remember which ghost said it, but they said we don’t really hang out there because there’s a freaky crowd over there or something to that effect about the Hogwarts ghosts don’t go over there because of the company that the Shrieking Shack has. But then we learn later on that there aren’t any ghosts in there at all. And all the noises came…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: …from Lupin. Which makes me wonder, the Shrieking Shack would have only been – quote, unquote – “The most haunted building in Britain,” for like thirty years because that’s when Lupin was in… more than that, but you know what I mean? It wouldn’t forever have been that.
Rosie: Yeah, and it was supposedly built…
Kat: Right.
Rosie: …at the same time that the Whomping Willow was planted, so it’s not even that old of a building.
Kat: No, because it says that the inn was the headquarters for the goblin rebellion in 1612…
Alex: That’s what I mean, so it was…
Kat: …so it’s been there a long time.
Rosie: The inn was but not the Shrieking Shack.
Kat: Yes, it says, “In sights of historical society,” it says the inn and the Shrieking Shack supposed… oh, right.
Alex: So, was the Shrieking Shack…
Kat: I read that wrong.
Alex: …a brand new house that was just put up when Lupin came to school and then all of a sudden, people were like, “Oh, it’s haunted”? That makes no…
Rosie: Supposedly, yeah.
Alex: Who would buy that?
Kat: Apparently.
Alex: Someone would be like, “That’s a new house! It shouldn’t be haunted.”
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Wait, wait. Maybe the ghosts are in on it.
Rosie: Yeah, I think the ghosts would have been told…
Noah: Oh, that’s a very good thought, Kat.
Rosie: …to spread the rumor.
Kat: And that’s why they don’t go there.
Noah: Maybe they told everyone to go away.
Rosie: Especially Nearly Headless Nick because Lupin was a Gryffindor.
Noah: What if the ghosts all throw parties in there…
Alex: Interesting.
Noah: …and they just tell everyone to go away.
[Laura laughs]
Alex: It’s interesting just the film depiction of it. It’s so dilapidated. And even though we know that Lupin and his friends…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: …used to destroy it in their animal outrages, it just seems so dilapidated to be a brand new house that’s only…
Rosie: But it has been abandoned for over ten years as well. I mean…
Kat: Very true.
Rosie: …a house without being maintained is going to look dilapidated…
Alex: That’s true.
Rosie: …fairly quickly. But yeah, it still seems a bit odd that people would believe this story without any proof, and ghosts aren’t even that scary.
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: So, why would they be afraid of it? But we see that Hermione lets Crookshanks out of his cage and he immediately jumps onto Ron who pushes him off. But he’s not attacking the rat at this point. He’s just watching, keeping an eye. And with the discussion of Sirius over, Lupin makes kind of a move in his sleep. So, maybe he’s decided to settle down and stop listening in if he was awake to start with. But he is still proving very useful because Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle turn up and we get a nice little recap of the last two years of their relationship with Harry and the rest of them. But luckily this time Malfoy can’t do anything because he is afraid, slightly, of the backlash that would happen because Lupin is sat in their compartment. And Ron says, “I’m not going to take any rubbish from Malfoy this year.”
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Rosie: Which won’t last particularly long, as we’ll find out later in this chapter.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Outside of the train, the weather is getting increasingly stormy. So much so that it is pitch black outside the windows. And we find that the train stops too early and all of the lamps go out and darkness falls. And Ron says, “There’s something moving out there.” And I thought it was really interesting how much of this dialogue in this little scene makes it into the movie script. It’s a very kind of cinematic…
Alex: Even the, “Ouch, Ron, that was my foot.” That made it into the movie. [laughs]
Kat and Rosie: Yeah.
Rosie: Uh-huh.
Kat: Yeah, they couldn’t put Harry at the end talking to his son saying, “It did for me,” but they can put, “Ron, that was my foot.” I’m just saying.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: Well, you guys have to remember that this was Alfonso Cuaron and Prisoner of Azkaban is clearly the best adaptation in film that… of all the series.
Alex: Uh-oh!
Kat: Whoa!
Rosie: Contentious.
Kat: I will have to disagree with that and I’m going to put out a little spoiler. MuggleNet has a project coming out in about a week after this episode releases that’s going to help the fans decide that for real.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Oh, yeah!
Kat: Don’t mention what it is.
Noah: But my personal favorite is POA.
Kat: Personal favorite? Sure.
Noah: All the way.
Rosie: Mine too.
Alex and Laura: Disagree.
Noah: That’s all I have to say.
Kat: I have to disagree but that’s cool.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Yeah, we can come to a conclusion after…
Rosie: Yes.
Kat: …the end of February. How’s that?
Noah: [laughs] Very well.
Rosie: What doesn’t happen in the movie, however, is Neville and Ginny fall into this compartment as well. So, Neville literally falls through the door and Ginny collides into Hermione when she goes to ask the driver what is happening. So, you get a nice little bit of slapstick in the dark until Lupin awakes and tells everyone to be quiet. And he conjures flames. He doesn’t say Lumos; he conjures a little ball of flame in his hand to light the way.
Alex: Are those the same flames that Hermione does in the jars?
Rosie: Perhaps.
Kat: That’s what I was wondering. It doesn’t say that they’re blue though.
Rosie: No.
Alex: Also…
Rosie: If you…
Alex: Sorry, I was just going to say…
Rosie: Sorry, go ahead.
Alex: Was Joanne’s only purpose of putting Neville in that scene is so he could spread the rumor of Harry fainting? Like, what is his actual purpose in that room?
Rosie: Uh-huh. I would say it was because you want to put all of your heroes who have had dark experiences in this room with the Dementor to see how they react.
Alex: Okay.
Rosie: So, Neville and Harry, you have this link ultimately that they have been through very, very similar things. For Ginny – as I’ll say in a few minutes – it’s because of everything that happened last year. But it makes you think, was Neville in the same room when his parents were tortured? In the same way that Harry was in the same room when his parents were killed?
Alex: Hmm.
Kat: Doubtful, because then why would he be alive? I don’t think Bellatrix would have had any qualms with killing him if he were in the room.
Alex: Yeah, that’s fair.
Laura: Yeah, that’s a good point.
Rosie: Maybe.
Kat: I feel like they were captured. I’m pretty sure that they were captured and then tortured elsewhere.
Noah: I agree.
Rosie: Fair enough. But he still has these bad memories and bad experiences that he will dwell on throughout his childhood. So, I think that’s why Neville is put in this scene, as well as to spread the rumor later on. But we see the door sliding open and a cloaked figure towering to the ceiling whose face is hidden by a hood. And we see his hand visible and it’s glistening and slimy and scabbed. How can you have something that is slimy and scabbed? I would have thought they would be two different things. But, he looks dead and decayed and water. And I always thought that it was a really interesting description when we later saw Inferi…
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: …because they seem less dead and decayed in the water than the Dementors did. In a weird way.
Kat: Hmm.
Rosie: But we get this long, slow, rattling breath and an intense cold hits at that moment. Which is, again, very different from the movie which has the cold hitting before we actually see the Dementor.
Alex: So, what are Dementors? They’re obviously like a human type structure if they have hands and mouths and stuff. But is it supposed to be like a skeleton underneath? Or are they like the Inferi…
Noah: Well…
Laura: …with the dead bodies? Or…
Noah: We’re going to get more into a Dementor discussion in our special feature, so maybe we should hold off until then on that.
Alex: Sure.
Rosie: So, Harry feels this intense cold and it’s inside his heart and he’s drowning in cold. It’s amazing how many of these things are linked to water. And he hears this terrible, terrified screaming, which at this moment we don’t know what it is but obviously we later find out that it’s Lily. And I think that’s a horrible description as your first hearing of your own mother and it’s a terrible, terrified screaming. But next thing we know the Hogwarts Express is moving again and Ron says that no one screamed, and Harry is on the floor having collapsed with Ron and Hermione helping him back into his seat. And we get the description that Ginny and Neville are both very pale. And as we all know, chocolate makes everything better [laughs] so Lupin hands out a bar of chocolate, which no one seems to eat. Why does no one listen to this teacher when he’s telling you to do things?
Alex: Don’t eat… yeah.
Noah: Well, I mean, if a strange man is giving you stuff, don’t eat it.
Kat: It’s chocolate!
Alex: Chocolate can be laced with things.
Kat: Hello?
[Rosie laughs]
Alex: You don’t just eat food strangers give you.
Kat: But this guy just saved your ass.
[Laura laughs]
Kat: I would eat it but I’m a chocoholic, so…
Alex: And is Jo just going on the basis that everyone loves chocolate and therefore it’ll make you feel happy again, or does it have an actual ingredient in it that is for some reason a remedy?
Rosie: Chocolate releases endorphins. Chocolate is proven to actually release endorphins so it does make you happier so it would give you back those happy memories…
Alex: Okay.
Rosie: …that the Dementors leeched out. Or happy feelings.
Noah: I have a question. Is this normal Muggle chocolate or is this special enhanced magical…
Kat: No, it says it’s from Honeydukes.
Noah: So, I’m saying would that chocolate be the same or would it be chemically different?
Laura: I feel like it would be the same.
Kat: Yeah, chocolate is chocolate.
Rosie: There’s no reason for it to be different.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Very well. Consensus.
Rosie: [laughs] So, Lupin says that… Harry asks what was that thing and Lupin says that, “It’s a Dementor, one of the Dementors of Azkaban,” but he doesn’t say anything more. Which is very useful, Lupin. Thanks very much.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: The focus is always on Harry, who is the only one who has collapsed on the entire train apparently. We don’t find out about anyone else. But we hear that… Ron and Hermione kind of recap what went on when Harry was passed out. And Lupin walked towards this Dementor and said, “None of us are hiding Sirius Black under our cloaks.” And it’s really interesting phrasing because Ron is currently hiding Pettigrew under his cloak.
Kat: Oh, yeah.
Noah: Oh.
Alex: Yeah, that’s cool.
Kat: Nice.
Rosie: So, it’s not the right criminal but it’s the actual criminal who committed the crime they’re searching for is hiding under his cloak.
Kat: So, wait, is that… I mean, is that why they… obviously they were checking the whole train, but if Harry wasn’t in that room would they have gone in there?
Rosie: I think that… yeah, they would have been checking all of the train. But I think that compartment with that collection of people with Lupin, who has been tormented his whole life by the fact that he’s a werewolf; with Neville, who has all of the bad memories of his parents and everything that happened to him as a child; Ginny, who had all of the events from last year; Harry, who obviously has his entire backstory; Ron and Hermione not so much. [laughs] But with those four people you’ve got that intense amount of negative feeling mixed in with all the happiness that it would have been impossible for the Dementors to resist.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: And also you’ve got Pettigrew who is obviously guilty and in fear.
Kat: Right, but he’s an Animagus so they can’t feel him.
Alex: Can Dementors feed off of animals at all? Because we see that Sirius escapes…
Rosie: In some ways.
Alex: …as an animal but it would obviously still affect him, so would the Dementors even feel Peter in that room?
Rosie: Sirius says that the Dementors could recognize a broken mind, so they would feel that there was a person there, but… or maybe an animal. I don’t know. Maybe they would think of Crookshanks as well as a lesser mind in the same way. But yeah, there would definitely be a kind of sense of something wrong but not necessarily to the same extent that it would have been if Peter wasn’t in the rat form at that time.
Noah: Hmm.
Rosie: So, we find that we are now ten minutes from Hogwarts and it’s still freezing rain on the platform. So, we still get the kind of influence from the Dementors; nothing is quite happy yet. We get a nice little check-in from Hagrid before he takes all of the first years off. And we get Harry and Ron’s first time in a stagecoach heading up towards Hogwarts. And we get a nice little invisible horse quote where he is saying that they look as if they are drawn by invisible horses but you can’t be sure. Obviously we find out later that this is true.
Kat: Right, circle theory. Because he sees them for the first time in Book 5.
Rosie: In Book 5. We then see McGonagall calling Harry and Hermione aside and leaving Ron on his own.
[Alex laughs]
Rosie: For the first time really. You get that first… another little inference of Ron being not quite as important as the other two. He’s always left on his own.
Alex: Can’t you see him just wandering through the Great Hall, like where do I go? What do I do?
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Rosie: Yeah, what do I do now? [laughs]
Kat: Like he’s missing his left and right arm.
Rosie: Mhm.
Alex: Yeah, I can’t imagine Jo just writing Ron on his own. He would just be so lost.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Rosie: Meanwhile, McGonagall checks on Harry and so does Madam Pomfrey, making sure that he’s all right. And Madam Pomfrey does the classic line, “Oh it’s you, is it?”
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Because Harry is always meeting up with her in some shape or form. And on Lupin she says about the chocolate, “Did he now? So we finally got a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher who knows his remedies.” So, straight away we know that Lupin is finally going to be a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher that can actually teach Defense Against the Dark Arts.
Kat: Right, he’s legit. Which is nice.
Rosie: He is a good teacher. [laughs]
Noah: Mhm.
Rosie: Hermione’s timetable is mentioned again, which obviously at this point seems inconsequential but becomes of great importance later on. And this is the moment where she obviously gets her Time-Turner that we don’t know about yet. So, Dumbledore does this whole speech about the Dementors saying that they’re stationed at every single entrance to the grounds and that you shouldn’t try and cross them in any way because they are not one to accept excuses. And that anyone who is planning on going to Hogsmeade should not do so under invisibility cloaks. Cough, cough, wink, wink, Harry; talking directly to you here.
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: Then Lupin and Hagrid are both announced as new teachers and we get this nice little bit of Snape staring at Lupin with ultimate loathing. The look he wore when he set eyes on Harry because obviously they are hated for the same reason because they are both linked to James.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: And because of Lupin’s involvement and everything that happened at school with Snivellus.
Kat: And I think this is the only… the one and only mention we have of Professor Kettleburn.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: And I found it odd that the Pottermore information was actually in the next chapter about this person.
Noah: Hmm.
Rosie: Oh.
Noah: An oversight.
Kat: But I wanted to read it here and talk about it if you guys didn’t mind.
Rosie: Sure, go ahead.
Kat: Okay. It says:
“Silvanus Kettleburn was the Care of Magical Creatures teacher at Hogwarts until Harry’s third year when he was replaced by Rubeus Hagrid. Kettleburn was an enthusiastic and occasionally reckless man whose great love of the often dangerous creatures he studied and looked after led to serious injuries to himself and, occasionally, others. This fact led to no fewer than sixty-two periods of probation during his time of employment at the school (a record that still stands). Like Hagrid after him, he was prone to underestimating the risks involved in caring for creatures such as Occamys, Grindylows and Fire Crabs, and once famously caused the Great Hall to catch fire after enchanting an Ashwinder to play the Worm in a play of ‘The Fountain of Fair Fortune’.”
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: [continues]
“Kettleburn was a lovable if eccentric man, and his continuing employment at the school was evidence of the great affection in which the staff and students held him. He finished his career with only one arm and half a leg. Albus Dumbledore presented him with a full set of enchanted wooden limbs on his retirement, a gift that had to be replaced regularly since because Kettleburn’s habit of visiting dragon sanctuaries in his spare time meant that his prosthetics were frequently set on fire.”
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: That sounds like Hagrid to me.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: I don’t know about you guys, but that sounds like a pretty good description of Hagrid. [laughs] So, I think it’s pretty great that Hagrid got that job.
Alex: I think it’s good to know that Hogwarts has this dramatic arts program where they’re putting on plays in the Great Hall.
Rosie: [laughs] Yeah.
[Laura laughs]
Kat: I know! Because we’ve talked about that before. This is the first glimpse we get at any sort of creativeness at Hogwarts, outside of pretty spells and whatnot.
Alex: Yeah, for sure. It’s also interesting that… I really want to know what Hogwarts’ safety policy is because it sounds like Kettleburn’s really putting students in danger here. Because it’s obviously during school times, because he has 62 periods of probation…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: …and then there’s Hagrid, still taking first years across the lake in this treacherous storm right now. So, what is their safety policy?
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: They don’t have one. [laughs]
Laura: Apparently!
Kat: They do not have one.
Rosie: Their policy is Madam Pomfrey.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: And did anyone notice here that the play they’re putting on is one of the Tales of Beedle the Bard?
Alex: Yeah.
Laura: Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah. Which I thought was really cool. And I want to just super-briefly talk about the wand that was given to Kettleburn. It’s chestnut and phoenix feather, eleven-and-a-half inches, whippy. About chestnut, it says:
“This is a most curious, multi-faceted wood, which varies greatly in its character depending on the wand core, and takes a great deal of color from the personality that possesses it. The wand of chestnut is attracted to witches and wizards who are skilled tamers of magical beasts, those who possess great gifts in Herbology, and those who are natural fliers. However, when paired with dragon heartstring, it may find its best match among those who are overfond of luxury and material things, and less scrupulous than they should be about how they are obtained. Conversely, three successive heads of the Wizengamot have possessed chestnut and unicorn wands, for this combination shows a predilection for those concerned with all manner of justice.”
Yeah, and his is paired with phoenix feather, which we know quite a lot about, that the people who have phoenix feather tend to take initiative, act on their own accord, things like that. So, this seems to work with this Kettleburn character.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Do we know what Hagrid’s wand was made of?
Rosie: I don’t think we ever find out.
Noah: I just know that it was sixteen inches long. If you wanted to know.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: Thanks.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Kat: And the other things we learn about him are that he was a Hufflepuff…
Rosie: Woo!
Kat: …and his hobbies were dangerous creatures. [laughs] So, there you go.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: So there, that’s our Kettleburn information from Pottermore. Thank you, Joanne.
Alex: Yeah, Joanne!
Rosie: It does make it interesting, in comparison to Hagrid, that he’s not the only one that’s done this with Care of Magical Creatures. It’s the actual lessons that are dangerous, not just the teacher.
Kat: Yeah. Most random… I don’t know, I feel like this is the most random bit of information for her to give us…
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: …but it also makes total sense in context to Hagrid.
Rosie: Yeah. So after we get this little snippet of information, we find that Harry and the rest of the Gryffindors are heading back to the common room, and Percy has set the password to be “Fortuna Major,” which is exceedingly pompous but quite nice as foreshadowing, as we get Neville saying, “Oh no, I’ll never remember that.” And obviously, Neville forgetting will become important later on in the year. And just as Harry is climbing into bed, we get a nice little snippet that says, “Harry finally felt like he was home at last.”
Alex: So, Laura and I were talking last night about this whole… because they said that they cleared Hagrid’s name, the trio cleared Hagrid’s name last year.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Right, I had come up with that and…
Alex: Yeah.
Kat: …I actually put this in here. I said if Hagrid’s name was cleared, is he not able to get a wand again and learn magic?
Alex: Why wouldn’t you elect to do that after your name was cleared? I can’t imagine… I guess Hagrid could have just been like, “Nah, it’s okay.” But why wouldn’t you? [laughs]
Kat: Right.
Rosie: Because he was expelled from Hogwarts…
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: …so early on he’s not got the education that he needs to be able to handle a wand correctly.
Noah: Exactly.
Kat: Right, that’s what I’m saying. Why wouldn’t they allow him to learn magic?
Rosie: Well, he probably could, but would you really want Hagrid becoming a pupil with everyone else when he is as old as he is?
Alex: I think it would be…
Rosie: They gave him a professorship.
Alex: I think it would be like adult education classes. I don’t think he’s going to be sitting in the back of Transfiguration.
[Kat and Laura laugh]
Rosie: But do we know if they actually exist? Are there any adult education classes?
Noah: I think he knows enough magic to get around, though. Like he’s…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: I think Dumbledore would take him on.
Laura: Yeah, like a crash course…
Alex: Yeah.
Laura: …after dinner or something.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Rosie: But ultimately, he has all the skills he needs for the job that he is going to be doing. So, does he actually need to learn any more magic then he already has?
Alex: Well, at the same time it would be nice to give him an actual wand and not a broken wand inside an umbrella.
[Kat and Laura laugh]
Alex: I feel like that just…
Rosie: [laughs] Maybe he is fond of his pink umbrella.
Alex: [laughs] Maybe he is, but I feel like that should have been a gift from the Ministry being like, “Sorry champ, here’s your wand.”
Kat: Right. I agree, completely. Completely agree.
Alex: That was an oversight, Joanne. Get it together.
Kat: Whoa. Calling her out.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Cool, so we’re going to jump into our next chapter here.
[Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 6 intro begins]
[Sound of wind chimes]
Trelawney: Chapter 6: Talons and Tea Leaves.
[Sound of cup breaking]
Trelawney: Oh it’s all right, Mr. Longbottom. Select a new cup. One of the blue ones if you don’t mind. Thank you.
[Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 6 intro ends]
Kat: So, in this chapter we come upon the trio on their first day of term, and I love it because Malfoy is making fun of Harry for everything that happened on the train, showing a brave face. But then Fred and George, of course, said that he nearly wet himself when the Dementor came to their compartment. I just thought that was great. And we also get this great bit where they’re talking about Hermione’s schedule again, and she just keeps kind of dodging the subject and says, “Don’t be silly, of course I won’t be in all three classes at once.” And Ron presses her and she just says, “Nope. Pass the marmalade. Not even going to talk about it. Whatever.” So she’s obviously hiding something, that dodgy little girl.
Alex: They don’t press her at all.
Laura: Yeah.
Alex: They let it slide so many times. They’ll be like, “Well, what do you mean?” and Hermione would brush it off and they’re like, “Oh well, what’s for lunch?”
Rosie: I would want to know the answer. Why would you ever let them just leave it? [laughs]
Alex: Your friend is like…
Rosie: How is she going to do it?
Alex: Exactly.
Laura: Yeah, we were discussing that yesterday. Like they never question it, especially when she was talking… I think it’s later on in this chapter where she says, “Oh, my Arithmancy class was so much better than Divination,” and he’s like, “But you haven’t even been to that class yet.”
Rosie: Yeah.
Laura: And that’s just how they drop it.
Rosie: And it’s just left…
Laura: Yeah.
Alex: Even later on, I think they’re talking to Ernie Macmillan or something, and he mentions that Hermione was in his class, and Harry and Ron are like, “No, she was in ours.” And everyone just goes, “Oh, weird…”
[Kat laughs]
Alex: …and doesn’t question it. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah. We’re just meant to notice, I think is what it is. And we’re meant to be just as bewildered as they are.
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: I’d be, like, sitting down and interrogating her.
[Kat laughs]
Alex: It’s so strange to me.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: “What is going on?” So, then they set off for their first Divination lesson, which we learn is at the top of the North Tower and takes nearly ten minutes to get there. And of course they get lost along the way because, well, it’s Hogwarts, right? It’s huge.
[Laura laughs]
Kat: And so we meet this tiny little knight in a painting, and it’s Sir Cadogan. And we actually got some information again on Pottermore on Sir Cadogan, so I wanted to read this… am I saying that correctly? Because that’s the way I’ve always said it.
Alex: I say “Sir Cad-ogan.”
Noah: I’ve always said “Sir Cad-ogan.”
Rosie: I say “Cad-ogan” as well, but Stephen Fry on our audiobook says “Ca-dogan.” So, either way is fine I think.
Kat: Woo-hoo! All right.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: It’s “Ca-dogan,” I’m sticking with it. I think it sounds better, but anyway…
Noah: How about “Ca-dog-an”?
Alex: Ooh.
Laura: Ehh…
Kat: I’m saying “Cad-ogan.”
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Okay, it says:
“Before the wizarding community was forced into hiding, it was not unusual for a wizard to live in the Muggle community and hold down what we would now think of as a Muggle job.
It is widely believed in wizarding circles that Sir Cadogan was one of the famous Knights of the Round Table, albeit a little-known one, and that he achieved this position through his friendship with Merlin. He has certainly been excised from all Muggle volumes of King Arthur’s story, but wizarding versions of the tales include Sir Cadogan alongside Sir Lancelot, Sir Bedivere…”
Rosie: Bedivere, yup. [unintelligible]
Kat: [continues]
“…and Sir Percivale. These tales reveal him to be hot-headed and peppery, and brave to the point of foolhardiness, but a good man in a corner.
Sir Cadogan’s most famous encounter was with the…”
What is that word?
Rosie: Wyvern.
Kat: [continues]
“…Wyvern of Wye…”
Rosie: [pronouncing it correctly] Wye. [laughs]
Kat: [continues]
“…a dragonish…”
Rosie: The Wyvern of Wye.
Kat: Wyvern of Wye. Thank you.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: [continues]
“…a dragonish creature that was terrorizing the West Country. At their first encounter, the beast ate Sir Cadogan’s handsome steed, bit his wand in half, and melted his sword and visor. Unable to see through the steam rising from his melting helmet, Sir Cadogan barely escaped with his life. However, rather than running away, he staggered into a nearby meadow, grabbed a small, fat pony grazing there, leapt upon it, and galloped back towards the wyvern…”
I said it right?
Rosie: Yup.
Kat: Yeah.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: [continues]
“…with nothing but his broken wand in his hand, prepared to meet a valiant death. The creature lowered its fearsome head to swallow Sir Cadogan and the pony whole, but the splintered and misfiring wand pierced its tongue, igniting the gassy fumes rising from its stomach and causing the wyvern to explode.”
Rosie: Ooh. [laughs]
Kat: [continues]
“Elderly witches and wizards still use the saying, ‘I’ll take Cadogan’s pony,’ to mean, ‘I’ll salvage the best I can from a tricky situation.’
Sir Cadogan’s portrait, which hangs on the seventh floor of Hogwarts Castle, shows him with the pony he rode forever more (which, understandably perhaps, never much liked him)…”
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Kat: [continues]
“…and accurately depicts his hot temper, his love of a foolhardy challenge, and his determination to beat the enemy, come what may.”
What a great story.
Rosie: Yeah. For those that don’t know, a wyvern is a two-legged dragon.
Kat: Oh, I didn’t know that. Thank you.
Alex: I’m totally going to start using that phrase in everyday language, and everyone is going to…
Rosie: “I’ll take Cadogan’s pony!” [laughs]
Noah: Yeah.
[Alex and Kat laugh]
Noah: I was just going to say.
Kat: You’d be like, “Oh, he was a Knight at the Round Table.”
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Obviously.
Alex: And then I won’t be invited to parties anymore.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: You’ll be invited to the cool parties, and that’s all that matters.
Rosie: I love this story, though. I consider myself a little bit of a specialist on Arthurian legends, so to have a Harry Potter Arthurian legend in its own right is just brilliant. I love it.
Kat: It’s pretty amazing, right?
Rosie: Yeah.
Laura: It kind of sounds like a story that would come out of Tales of Beedle the Bard, you know?
Alex: Yeah, that totally could be one.
Kat: [sighs] So cool.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Love this world. Okay, and again we get his wand, which I just want to talk about briefly. You know how I like wands.
Rosie: Mhm.
Kat: So, his wand is blackthorn and troll whisker, nine inches, and combustible. About the [blackthorn], it says:
“[Blackthorn], which is a very unusual wand wood, has a reputation, in my view well-merited, of being best suited to a warrior. This does not necessarily mean that its owner practises the Dark Arts (although it is undeniable that those who do so will enjoy the blackthorn wand’s prodigious power); one finds blackthorn wands among the Aurors as well as among the denizens of Azkaban. It is a curious feature of the blackthorn bush, which sports wicked thorns…”
That’s a tongue twister. I can’t get that out. [laughs]
“…that it produces its sweetest berries after the hardest frosts, and the wands made from this wood appear to need to pass through danger or hardship with their owners to become truly bonded. Given this condition, the blackthorn wand will become as loyal and faithful a servant as one could wish.”
Phew, that was a tongue twister. I think that’s a pretty good description, though. Who else do we see that might have a blackthorn wand?
Alex: Is that Bellatrix…
Kat: Do we know?
Rosie: I think we’ve definitely seen them before.
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: Bellatrix has one, does she not?
Rosie: I think so, yeah.
Kat: Is she blackthorn? That’s possible. I don’t recall.
Noah: I’m not entirely sure.
Alex: I’m pretty sure it is.
Kat: I’m going to look it up.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: I like to be accurate. Yeah, I do think it is blackthorn. No, it is two and three quarters walnut…
Rosie: It’s a Snatcher…
Kat: …with a dragon core heartstring.
Alex: Someone has a blackthorn wand…
Kat: I feel like…
Rosie: A wand made of blackthorn was taken from a Snatcher by Ron Weasley…
Kat: I was going to say, it’s a Snatcher.
Rosie: …in 1997 it says on the wiki.
Alex: There we go.
Rosie: So, it’s actually just a generic Snatcher. We never know whose it was.
Kat: Okay. And then, I thought the other interesting part was the core is troll whiskers.
Alex: Yeah. That’s…
Kat: And we know that Ollivander doesn’t use them.
Alex: …really strange. I’ve never heard of that.
Kat: Yeah. So, what do we think that is? Because Ollivander obviously doesn’t use them. What do we think it means, and how does it affect the wood?
Alex: It’s supposed to be…
Noah: Well, trolls are kind of big and beefy…
Kat: Stupid?
Noah: Stupid. So, I guess it makes your wand kind of stupid, would be the takeaway.
Alex: Yeah, why would you be using something from a magical creature that doesn’t really have positive properties [laughs] attached to it? There’s… in comparison to the unicorn?
Rosie: I guess it has brute force and all of that kind of stuff, so…
Noah: Is it reasonable to believe that people, back in the day, made their own wands? Because there probably weren’t necessarily wand shops, and maybe, at a certain point, Ollivander just streamlined his wands and just used the best cores. But maybe, back in olden times, you had to actually find your own core, find your own magical creature. Maybe it’s a rite of passage.
Alex: That makes sense.
Kat: It’s possible.
Noah: So, maybe…
Rosie: I don’t know. I doubt it. I think there would always have been people making wands. It would have been a specific career within the wizarding world. But I think that there would have been… you would test out wand cores and see what they do, so Ollivander stopped using them because they’re not as good as others, probably.
Noah: Right.
Rosie: And considered inferior to the supreme cores that we know of.
Noah: Right.
Alex: And we know on Ollivander’s shop, doesn’t it say, “Ollivanders: Fine Maker of Wands since 320 BC,” or…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: …something like that? [laughs]
Kat and Rosie: Yeah.
Rosie: Which would have been around the same time as Cadogan, I think.
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: 320? Yeah.
Kat: Sounds about right.
Rosie: That’s about the Arthurian period. Sure.
Noah: I wonder how Ollivander gets his hands on so many dragon heartstrings, unicorn hairs, and phoenix feathers.
Laura: [laughs] That’s a good point.
Alex: Yeah, that is a really good point.
Noah: He’s either…
Rosie: The same way any shop owner would get supplies. You would have a supplier who would be either…
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: Who would be involved in looking after them.
Laura: A chaser of beasts.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: Do you think he sells wands that ever have unique cores? Different from those three main ones?
Kat: No. Because according to Pottermore he doesn’t. [laughs]
Alex: Yeah. For real.
Noah: But it’s… maybe it’s reasonable to believe that, at a certain point, he reformed his practice and just put it to those three cores.
Kat: I think that’s exactly what it said, actually.
Noah: Oh. Cool.
Kat: Yeah. So, then the only other real bit of interesting information we get about Cadogan is that he has three wives that are believed to have left him, and it’s rumored that he has seventeen children. [laughs] So, he gets around.
Noah: What a guy.
[Alex laughs]
Kat: Yeah. He gets around, that Cadogan.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: So, they finally make it to the North Tower where Divination is, and they get there and it’s this circular trapdoor with a brass plaque on it and it says, “Sybill Trelawney, Divination Teacher,” and they are like, “How are we supposed to get up here?” And of course, so then a silvery ladder comes down and they ascend into the classroom. And it’s first described as a cross between someone’s attic and an old fashioned tea shop. [laughs] That just sounds like Trelawney, the Trelawney in the movies, to me. I don’t know how you guys feel about that.
Alex: I feel like this classroom is a fire hazard.
[Alex and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Totally.
Alex: Again, with the safety regulations of Hogwarts. This place can catch fire at literally any moment.
Kat: Yeah. Just, poof! It goes up in smoke.
Alex: Especially with all the scarves over the lamps and the blinds are shut, and there’s a fireplace going down. I’m surprised nothing happens.
Kat: Dusty feathers, stubs of candles, playing cards. Yeah, totally.
Rosie: But it’s playing into the trope of the madwoman in the attic as well. So if you…
Alex: Oh, totally.
Rosie: That’s… yeah, and it’s perfect for Trelawney.
Kat: Yeah, perfect. So then, she starts into class by saying, [as Trelawney] “How nice to see you in the physical world at last.” [back to normal voice] I’m no Michael. Sorry, that’s not a very good voice.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: And to introduce herself to the class and whatever, she starts giving out kind of predictions. She’ll kind of look at somebody and talk. So I was wondering, did any of them actually come true? I made a list. So, she asks Neville if his grandmother is well. She obviously is well because we never hear about that, right?
Alex: Yup.
Kat: She mentions to Parvati to beware of a red-headed man.
Alex: Is that foreshadowing Goblet of Fire Yule Ball experiences? [laughs]
Kat: I don’t know. That’s the only thing I…
Rosie: Parvati is with Harry, though.
Noah: Yeah, it wasn’t Parvati. It was Padma.
Rosie: It was Padma, yeah.
Alex: Oh, I know. But maybe it’s just for her overall twin. “You guys aren’t going to like this one.”
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Well, kind of, but it was technically Padma.
Rosie: We’ll have to look out for something Ron does in this book, I think.
Laura: Yeah.
Alex: Trelawney is a little off, so you never know. It could be for her twin. [laughs]
Kat: Right. And then it says that class was… she predicts that class would be interrupted in February due to a nasty bout of the flu. And that happens, right?
Alex: Mhm.
Rosie: Think so.
Kat: Pretty sure. And then around Easter, one of our number will leave us forever.
Rosie: Hermione.
Kat: Right. Hermione. Okay. [laughs] And then she talks to… she asks Lavender to give her the giant silver teapot, and she gives it to her and she says, “Incidentally, the thing you’re dreading will happen Friday the 16th of October.” And obviously Lavender is not dreading her rabbit is going to die, so what was Trelawney predicting? Or rather, what was Lavender really dreading? What do we think?
Noah: Could it have been something to do with Ron?
Kat: On the assumption that Trelawney is correct that she dreading something.
Rosie: That’s just the wording, I think. The typical idea with general predictions, even in the Muggle world, is that it’s all about the wording. You can trick anyone into believing something is true by just wording it correctly. So if anything bad happened that day, that would become the thing that Lavender was dreading. I don’t think there was necessarily anything else that she was really dreading.
Kat: Yeah, I didn’t think so either. And then we get the bit where she talks to Neville about, “After you’ve broken your first cup, please take one of the blue because I like the pink.” And here I was wondering, do we think that she actually saw Neville breaking the cup, or was she reading his personality? Because Neville, I feel, gives off these vibes of a little…
Rosie: Neville is clumsy. [laughs]
Alex: Yeah.
Kat: Right. A little unorganized, a little… yeah.
Alex: She is definitely reading his personality because, as we know, she only has a few true visions. I feel like the rest is just coincidence.
Rosie: Mhm.
Kat: Coincidence, yeah.
Rosie: I wonder if she’s talked to any of the other professors as well about her class so she would get a little bit of inside information about them beforehand.
Alex: Probably.
Kat: Ooh, that’s possible. Very possible. So then they start with reading the tea leaves, which is the first thing that they do in the book, from the book, Unfogging the Future. And they start looking through the book and reading what they think they see in the tea leaves, and Harry sees an acorn in Ron’s cup and says that it’s a “windfall of unexpected gold.” And I thought this was great foreshadowing – again kind of to the end of Book 4, beginning of Book 5 – because it does happen to a Weasley, just sadly not Ron.
Alex: Now, when Ron is reading Harry’s… is it Ron reading Harry’s cup and he talks about the “You’re going to suffer but you’re going to be happy about it”?
Noah: Yeah, in the movie.
Alex: I was just thinking that was interesting even because Ron is obviously not a Seer, but Harry does suffer at the end of the book but he’s happy about it because he gets a godfather out of it.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: That’s very true.
Noah: Is that line in the book or is it just…
Alex: Yup.
Noah: …in the movie?
Alex: No, it’s in the book.
Kat: No, it’s in the movie.
Rosie: What I found very interesting…
Kat: I mean in the book. [laughs]
Rosie: …was that the… if you read each of their predictions as talking about themselves rather than the others…
Kat: Yes.
Rosie: …it becomes even more useful. So the windfall of unexpected gold would be Harry in Goblet of Fire, and suffering but being happy about it could be anything that Ron does really. [laughs] He suffers all the time and ultimately ends up happy.
Kat: And Ron even says… it says, “Ron peered into Harry’s teacup and there’s a blob that looks like a bowler hat, so maybe you’re going to work for the Ministry of Magic.”
Alex: And that happens.
Rosie: Which ultimately happens to them.
Kat: Right, that totally happens.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: So true. So I just… I love this chapter for all these little bits that come true at some point throughout.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: And then it was Professor Trelawney who looks into Harry’s cup and starts rotating it, and she says, “The falcon… my dear, you have a deadly enemy.” And Hermione is like, “Duh, everyone knows that.” [laughs] This kind of sets off Hermione’s, I feel like, dislike towards Trelawney. So what do we think it is about her that she truly detests? I mean, it can’t just be because the books aren’t able to help in class. There has to be some sort of thing that’s rubbing her the wrong way.
Alex: I think…
Rosie: Hermione is intensely logical, and there is no logic to Divination.
Kat: Yeah, but it has to be more than just that.
Noah: And isn’t there some form of logic to Divination because aren’t they going off of years of research of symbols appearing to look like something and then that something reflects a certain prophecy? That’s logical.
Rosie: Tenuous research. [laughs]
Alex: I’m confused as to why Divination is actually a course for students because, like Trelawney says, unless you really have the gift it’s kind of useless for you, and true Seers are so rare. So it’s interesting that it’s one of the things you can take, especially with a class out of, say, 30 kids. It’s kind of useless for everyone. I think Hermione is kind of saying that.
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: And since Trelawney is kind of playing to the stereotype of this all-mystic Seer and Hermione is kind of seeing right through that since Trelawney is the stereotype, I think that’s where the real detest comes from because Hermione is not a Seer. She knows the class is kind of useless, and she gets a feeling that Trelawney might be faking it.
Rosie: We see that Dumbledore was considering stopping the practice of Divination within Hogwarts until he had this interview with Trelawney and she gave the real prophecy, at which point he changed his mind and said maybe Divination has its perks. I guess you’d have to continue the classes in case you did find a true Seer because that person would need nurturing.
Alex: I guess.
Rosie: But yeah, it’s a difficult one.
Kat: So she continues to look further into Harry’s cup. She says, “Oh, my dear boy, my poor dear boy… you have the Grim.” And…
Rosie: Dun dun dun.
Kat: For the first time, Harry actually seems visibly nervous about dying because everyone starts talking about it, saying that it’s an omen of death, and then, “I don’t think it looks like the Grim,” and, “It looks like a donkey from here.” And he actually kind of blows up, and he says, “When you’ve all finished deciding about whether I’m going to die or not!” I just thought it was odd that he chooses now to be nervous…
Rosie: I think it’s because…
Kat: …about dying.
Rosie: …he’s already seen the Grim.
Laura: Yeah, it’s like a confirmation of everything that he’s been seeing in the past few days or weeks.
Rosie: Uh-huh. He’s already got that inherent fear of that dog that he saw in Little Whinging, and also the connection to the book, Death Omens, that he’s made in Diagon Alley.
Laura: Yeah. Exactly.
Alex: It’s also interesting… the teacup has: one, the falcon, which is the deadly enemy, and that’s true about Peter and Voldemort. The club, which is an attack, and that happens at the end of the book. Skull, danger in your path, that happens at the end of, well, the whole book. [laughs]
Rosie: That’s true, yeah.
Alex: And the Grim, I think that could even represent Sirius as the big black dog. [laughs] Maybe it’s not even the Grim.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah. No, I definitely think that’s what it is. For sure.
Rosie: So clever, Jo. [laughs]
Kat: The obligatory genius moment.
[Alex laughs]
Rosie: Yup.
Kat: Okay, so then they leave Divination, and they go down to Transfiguration. And they’re all kind of sitting there, not really talking or answering. Nothing is impressive, and Professor McGonagall is talking about the… [pronouncing it with a soft “g”] Animagi? How do you guys say it?
Rosie: [pronouncing it with a hard “g”] Animagi.
Kat: Animagi.
Alex: Yeah, I say it like that too.
Noah: [pronouncing it with a hard “g”] Animagi.
Kat: Wow, do I say everything wrong, or do you guys say everything wrong? [laughs]
Rosie: Well, they’re Canadian.
Noah: I’m sure that depends on…
Rosie: Canadians and British people have more of the similar inflections, so maybe that’s…
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Kat: Oh, is that what it is?
Laura: Agreed.
Rosie: …American/British divide thing. [laughs]
Noah: Are we sure it’s not Animaguses?
Kat: No.
Rosie: Animagi.
Kat: It’s A-N-I-M-A-G-I. Animagi.
Noah: Because – fun fact – it’s not Horcri, it’s Horcruxes.
Kat: Yes.
Rosie: But this is written as Animagi in the book, so…
[Alex, Kat, and Laura laugh]
Kat: Right.
Noah: Well, I mean, if it’s in the book…
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Anyway, so she’s wondering what’s wrong with everybody, and they just say, “Oh, we’ve just had our first Divination.” And she goes, “Ah yes, of course. Tell me, which of you is going to be dying this year?” And this immediately reminded me of Hermione, and I’m wondering, did they talk about this, perhaps, when they were talking about Hermione’s schedule? Maybe McGonagall had some sort of influence on Hermione’s opinion on the subject.
Alex: Hmm.
Laura: I don’t know if McGonagall had any opinion on Hermione. I think it’s just because Hermione is so incredibly book-smart, she just can’t really grasp the idea of predicting the future by looking at tea leaves.
Kat: Right.
Alex: Do you think…
Rosie: I think Hermione and McGonagall are quite similar people in that they’re both very skeptical in that kind of way, so…
Laura: Yeah.
Kat: Sure.
Alex: Do you think McGonagall would drop her professional manner to slander one of her co-workers to a student? [laughs]
Kat: I feel like she…
Rosie: She does, really, in this scene.
Laura: Yeah.
Noah: She does.
Kat: She does, but I feel like she sees so much of herself in Hermione that she would have no problem speaking the truth to her.
Alex: Fair enough.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: You know? But also – it kind of jumped out at me – it says she “does this every year.” [laughs] So Trelawney obviously never changes her lesson plan, but in fact, isn’t she kind of correct in her predictions this time around, that Harry does eventually die. Something does happen.
Rosie: What I want to know is whether the person predicted to die the year before would have been – or however many years before it would have been – was Cedric.
Kat: Oh, that would be so interesting.
Rosie: I want that bit of information.
Noah: Whoa.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Oh my goodness.
Kat: Unfortunately, we are never going to know that information.
Rosie: No.
Kat: So we’re going to assume that yes, it was Cedric. [laughs]
Noah: I assume that this is true…
Rosie: It would have been interesting.
Kat: And that Trelawney is…
Noah: …because that’s amazing.
Alex: And then for Colin Creevey’s year, she could say the same thing! [laughs]
Rosie: That’s true. By the end of the book, it could be any one from these years! [laughs] We see so many people dying, unfortunately.
Kat: Aww, that’s so sad!
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: That’s not fair because everyone she said that to was eventually going to die. Because everyone dies.
Rosie: Colin, Neville…
Alex: Yeah.
Rosie: Not Neville. Dennis, even. Creevey… there’s so many people that it could be each year. Oh no!
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: Move on, quick!
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Laura: Yeah.
Kat: Okay. So Ron obviously believes in the Grim, seeing as he grew up in a wizarding family and has personal experience with it. So I feel like he’s obviously scared for Harry at this point because he says, “But, Hermione, if Harry’s seen a Grim, that’s bad. My uncle Bilius saw one and he died twenty-four hours later.” And Hermione is just not at all buying it. Obviously this, again, goes into her logical side and whatever, but do we really think that Ron believes in the Grim? Is he scared for Harry’s life?
Alex: I think most wizarding families do believe in those legends and mythical creatures, so I feel like, raised in the Weasley family, and after what happened to good old Uncle Bilius, I feel Ron genuinely is afraid.
Noah: That’s true because Ron is somewhat superstitious…
Rosie: Yeah.
Alex: Yeah.
Noah: …because of his raising. If that makes sense.
Kat: That’s true. Okay, so…
Rosie: They’re already known to be afraid because of Sirius, so…
Kat: Right. Nothing else too exciting actually happens in that class, so we go to our third class of this chapter, which is Hagrid’s first lesson! And we get this great little moment where everyone is like, “Umm, how do we open our books?” And Hagrid feels all sad about it. He goes, “I thought they were funny.”
[Alex laughs]
Laura: Aww.
Kat: I think they’re funny! But I’ve never had my hand…
Rosie: That’s because you’ve never had to handle one! [laughs]
Kat: I was going to say, I’ve never had my hand bit by a book.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: That’s true.
Kat: Rosie, did you ever have to use…
Noah: What if it attacked your cats? How would you like the book then?
Kat: I would love it then. So not too much happens in this chapter, in this part, in this lesson, except for Malfoy getting attacked. But I found that Buckbeak really finds trust in Harry very quickly. I feel this is one of those things that people trust Harry, kind of, innately, I feel like. And does this, perhaps, help later, when they rescue him and then, eventually, send him off into the wild with Sirius? If he didn’t have this connection, would they have been able to save him?
Noah: Oh. So are you asking that maybe Buckbeak trusts Sirius so innately because Harry…
Kat: Yes.
Noah: …trusts Sirius?
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: That’s interesting. That makes sense.
Rosie: I think they’re ultimately…
Noah: Unless Sirius has the same kind of thing.
Rosie: …both good people as well, though. Yeah. Sirius is actually a good person that… I mean, Buckbeak won’t know about Sirius’ supposed misdemeanors. He’s just going to be treating him as the person that is put in front of him. So if Sirius is as deferential as he should be to a hippogriff, then he’ll be fine.
Kat: Oh. Okay.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: And then there was just one last little bit that I found on page 120 of the US edition. It says, “Sirius Black hasn’t got past the Dementors yet, has he?” And I just thought it was a great bit of foreshadowing…
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: …because they were talking about going down to visit Hagrid’s and walking on the grounds and whatever. So…
Rosie: So he may be there already, watching them.
Kat: He might be!
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: And we know that he obviously gets through later, so…
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: I just thought it was a great little bit. So… nothing too exciting in that chapter but, still, a very packed chapter.
Rosie: Now, would you like to know the difference between why Horcruxes is Horcruxes and Animagi is Animagi?
Noah: Yes.
Rosie: Because I can tell you. Okay, Animagus/Animagi…
Noah: Oh, please do.
Rosie: …is a second-declension masculine noun in Latin. So its plural form is the “i” form, whereas “Horcrux” would be a third declension masculine noun, which has the plural form of “es” instead of “i”. So, there you go.
[Laura and Rosie laugh]
Alex: Wow, that’s such a scholarly answer.
Noah: Yeah, I don’t really know what she said, but it sounds like the truth.
[Alex, Laura, and Rosie laugh]
Noah: So, I believe you.
Rosie: There is a technical reason why they are different and that was it, but you don’t understand it. [laughs]
Noah: No, that’s cool.
Alex: I wonder if Joanne knows that.
Rosie: Yeah, she…
Noah: I’m sure she does.
Rosie: …would have done when she wrote it.
Kat: I’m sure, yeah.
Rosie: She would have been creating these words, so she would have chosen what sounds best but following those Latin rules. So, I could even decline the rest of it for you and tell you what it would mean if you were talking of Animagi and two Animagi and all of these kind of things. They all have different endings.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Noah: Despite all that, though, I kind of wish there were Horcri in the world because they sound adorable.
[Everyone laughs]
Rosie: A little creepy.
Noah: Terrible, but adorable.
Kat: They do sound terrible and not adorable.
Rosie: Did you guys know that you can actually get Philosopher’s Stone and Chamber of Secrets in Latin? It’s been translated.
Noah: Whoa.
Laura: I did know that.
Kat: That’s crazy.
Laura: I saw that somewhere online.
Rosie: It’s cool.
Kat: Do you have it?
Rosie: I own Philosopher’s Stone, but I don’t own Chamber of Secrets yet.
Alex: I wonder what their sales are on those two volumes. [laughs] I can’t imagine it’s very high.
Rosie: They haven’t translated the rest of them, it’s only those first two. But it’s quite interesting.
Noah: All right, so now…
Kat: You should do an app feature on that, Rosie. That would be so cool. Just saying.
Rosie: [laughs] Maybe I should do an audiobook of it.
Noah: So, now…
Kat: Oh my God.
Noah: So, now we can move into our special feature discussion.
[“The Unspeakables” intro begins]
Michael: The Unspeakables.
Welcome Witch: Welcome, visitor, to the Ministry of Magic.
[Sound of elevator bell]
Welcome Witch: You have reached Level Nine, Department of Mysteries. Please refrain from engaging the Unspeakables in conversation and attempting to access restricted areas. Have a magical day.
[“The Unspeakables” intro ends]
Noah: All about Dementors. We’ve been talking a lot about Dementors on the show already, but user Have a Biscuit Potter – which is a great username, by the way – is pointing to some interesting questions about Dementors because there are several references to the fact that Dementors can talk to people because they’ve apparently been talking to the guards because they told… well, let me just read the whole comment here from Have a Biscuit Potter:
“When Mr. and Mrs. Weasley are arguing, Arthur says that the Azkaban guards told Fudge that Sirius had been talking in his sleep. How did they manage that? A couple of other times in the book, characters are mentioned to ‘talk’ to the Dementors, and I’ve always been very curious as to how that would work. From the descriptions of Dementors, it seems unlikely that they could even talk. Just my inference, though. I wish Jo would clear this up.”
Or “Joanne,” as our lady guest would suggest.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Noah: So, to throw it to you guys, Dementors can talk. Does this mean that they can also sing?
[Alex laughs]
Noah: Does it mean that they have their own conversations with each other? They’re playing cards around the Azakaban prison, their own culture and language?
Rosie: Noah… [laughs]
Alex: Laura and I were wondering if they communicate through Legilimens.
Laura: Like a telepathic way of communication.
Alex: Like planting…
Rosie: That would be interesting.
Laura: …images or thoughts into whoever they’re speaking to’s head.
Noah: Maybe it’s like sonar.
Alex: Maybe it is like sonar. [laughs]
Kat: Like bats?
Noah: Yeah, they can sense happy zones around where they can suck, and they’re like, “Yup, do you feel that?” “Oh, I feel that. I feel that right now. You going in?”
Kat: Oh, wait. Wait, wait, wait. If it’s like bats, then can they talk to Snape?
Noah: Well, Snape is connected to a bat, but it sounds like they can already talk to Fudge and normal Azkaban…
Rosie: I think they can talk to everyone.
Noah: …human guards, so what… they can speak English, guys.
Laura: I feel like it would be a really dark conversation because you’d be next to a Dementor, so you’d always already be feeling depressed, and they’re talking to you at the same time, so it’s…
Alex: I can’t imagine it’s verbal communication.
Laura: Yeah.
Alex: That does not make sense to me.
Noah: But it is.
Kat: Yeah, I would agree.
Noah: But it says that in the book. Is this an oversight?
Laura: I don’t know.
Alex: I think “told” could be a loose term. If the Legilimens thing is true then that could be like the Dementor told Fudge, but Fudge didn’t necessarily hear it from the Dementor. He thought it.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Alex: If that makes sense.
Noah: Well, you see, I feel the movies kind of go into our idea of what the Dementors are, and you see them… they clearly can’t talk. But we have to remember that the Dementors in the books are completely different, and they… I see them as having individual identities and absolutely talking if that’s what it’s in the book. I know there’s a quote, and I will dig up the quotes if I have to for the next show, but I’m sure the fans can find them, too. All right, everyone. So the Harry Potter Lexicon, as we know from our friend Steve Vander Ark, has a whole vast section on Dementors in the books, and I’m just going to read a few bits from the actual webpage. So, Dementors – they are, according to Steve Vander Ark:
“Horrible spectral creatures, hooded and robed, which feed on human emotions. Dementors drain ‘peace, hope, and happiness out of the air around them,’ according to Lupin (PoA). Even before a Dementor is seen, its presence is obvious; they are surrounded by an unnatural darkness and terrible icy cold. Dementors affect even Muggles, although the Muggles can’t see the foul, black creatures. They were the guards at Azkaban and made the place horrible indeed. The Ministry used Dementors as guards in its courtrooms as well.”
And now here’s that section about breeding, which I knew I found somewhere. Here it is:
“When they breed…”
Which is a weird thought in itself.
“…they create chill mist which permeates everything. They drain a wizard of his powers if left with them too long. A Dementor’s breath sounds rattling and like it’s trying to suck more than air out of a room. Its hands are ‘glistening, grayish, slimy-looking, and scabbed.'”
That’s an exact quote.
“It seems to exude cold. A Dementor’s last and worst weapon is called the Dementor’s Kiss.”
Aww, poor Dementors just want to have a kiss.
“The Dementor puts back its hood and clamps its jaws on the mouth of the victim and sucks out his soul…”
His or her soul.
“…leaving him an empty shell, alive but completely, irretrievably ‘gone.’ There are certain defenses one can use against Dementors, specifically the Patronus Charm.”
And besides those defenses, I don’t believe there are any other defenses. But yeah, that’s pretty much what we’ve got here on Dementors.
Alex: So Dementors breeding, is that working like mitosis? Like they just multiply?
Noah: I mean, I sort of assumed that it was more of a… Dementors are animals when you get down to it, so it’s going to probably be pretty similar to the way animals copulate.
Alex: Oh, I always just assumed it was mitosis because I don’t… see, that’s what… they seem so human-like, but then they’re half-creature. It’s a strange… I’m not exactly sure what they are.
Kat: I agree with you, I think it’s like mitosis. I don’t think they breed like animals because that requires happiness, and they are nasty.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Well, I would actually disagree with your claim that that act requires happiness. And wouldn’t they be really happy since they’ve been sucking out all this happiness out of people?
Alex: Are Dementors…
Kat: No because…
Rosie: No.
Alex: Sorry, go ahead.
Kat: …they eat it and digest it and [makes popping sound] it out, so no, I don’t think they would be super happy.
Noah: Well, I would say that…
Rosie: I think…
Noah: They’re not super…
Rosie: This is going to get horribly technical, but the… [laughs] some of the ways fish breed is like they send out this cloud, and then that cloud…
[Alex and Kat laugh]
Rosie: Just thinking about the fact that they’ve been described as very aquatic creatures. They’re all this kind of slimy, liquidy, looking like they’ve been decaying in water. That kind of… the fact that the mist is there when they procreate, that’s important in some way. So, we… I don’t really want to know the mechanics of it…
[Kat laughs]
Noah: I really want to know.
Rosie: …[laughs] but that mist is a bit similar to fish.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
Noah: Not only would I like to know, Rosie, but I would like to begin an international competition for a Quibble or some essay written for one fan just exploring this concept and sending it back to me in an email at noah at staff dot mugglenet dot com. How do Dementors breed? How do you think it happens? And go in depth, write an essay about it, and I’ll post it on Mugglenet, and we will solve this question, at least for now.
[Alex laughs]
Rosie: Okay. [laughs]
Noah: So, that is Noah’s open challenge of the day. But this is not a fan art competition. I don’t want to see fan art of anything close to this.
Kat: [laughs] Oh my God.
[Alex laughs]
Noah: So, I have to balance fan art versus editorials, which in this case it is definitely an editorial that would be better suited for how they copulate. So, also on this page – on Steve Vander Ark’s website, the Harry Potter Lexicon, it’s awesome – there’s a great quote from JK Rowling about why the Dementors connect with depression. So, here’s the exact quote:
“It was entirely conscious.”
The connection between Dementors and depression.
“And entirely from my own experience. Depression is the most unpleasant thing I have ever experienced… It is that absence of being able to envisage…”
Is that the right phrasing of the word “envisage”? [pronounces in-vih-zahge] Envisage? Anyway…
“…that you will ever be cheerful again.”
Rosie: Envisage.
Noah: Envisage.
“The absence of hope. That very deadened feeling, which is so very different from feeling sad. Sad hurts but it’s a healthy feeling. It’s a necessary thing to feel. Depression is very different.”
And the implication is feeling nothing. Okay, so that is taken from The Times (UK) on the 30th of June, 2000. Awesome. So, what do you guys think of that? I mean, I guess it’s kind of all out there, in a way.
Alex: Yeah, I think it’s just Joanne putting a lot of herself in the book. I remember watching a documentary on the BBC with her actually in it, and she’s just like, “Yeah, it was a really bad time in my life. So the Dementors are just, like, my sadness,” and she says that in that quote that Noah just read. And so I feel like it’s just a lot of Joanne thrown in there because isn’t this the book where she wanted to kill off Ron Weasley?
Noah: Whoa, that early?
Alex: Because she was so depressed. Because I remember watching this BBC documentary and she being like, “Yeah, it was just a really dark time.”
Noah: Almost killed Ron.
Alex: And me being like, “Well, that’s kind of drastic for a really dark time!”
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Yeah, Ron’s got to look… watch his back because Joanne’s coming with a hacksaw, and she’s really sad. Depressed, rather.
Alex: [laughs] Good. That’s good, Joanne.
Rosie: It was a really interesting documentary.
Noah: Okay, but I believe that about ends our special feature section. A lot on Dementors. If you want to comment any more about them, head over to the forums on the Alohomora! website. We’ll tell you exactly how to get there shortly. All right, so everybody, here is the Podcast Question of the Week for this week. Again, you can respond to this question directly on the main page of the Alohomora! section. So, we have just been – in these last two chapters – introduced to Professor Lupin. And again, there was some speculation as to how he got his role at Hogwarts because it seems like – based on his briefcase – he’s been teaching for a little while now, but it’s always been kind of ambiguous what sort of qualifications one needs to teach at Hogwarts. So, that is our question for all of you: What sort of standards or qualifications do you need to teach at Hogwarts? And – specifically with Professor Lupin – let’s… I mean we hope that we get some more information on the next few chapters of Pottermore on him, but if you could just right now speculate about it, what did he do after Hogwarts? Where does he come from, and, if he was indeed teaching, where did he teach? Was it in a Muggle school? Was it in a different wizarding school? That’s the question, and we will reply to some of your responses on the next episode of Alohomora!.
Kat: And we just want to take moment to thank our special guests this week, Alex and Laura. Again, thank you guys so much for coming on the show. I hope you had fun.
Laura: Oh, we had a great time.
Alex: Yeah.
Laura: Thank you so much.
Alex: We’d love to come back. This is a lot of fun.
Kat: Cool, absolutely. Thank you.
Alex: It was nice meeting all you guys. You seem awesome.
[Laura laughs]
Noah: You, too.
Rosie: And you.
Noah: Thanks.
Alex: If you’re ever in the Toronto area…
[Kat laughs]
Laura: Let us know.
Alex: You know. [laughs]
Kat: We’ll hit you up. That’s right, we’ll hit you up. [laughs]
Noah: And remember, if you want to be on the Alohomora! podcast and you’re a listening guest, all you have to do is email a clip of yourself analyzing the books to alohomorapodcast at gmail dot com. It’s important that that audio file sounds good. You have to have appropiate audio recording equipment so that you can be on the podcast with us. And another way you can get noticed on the site, especially by us hosts, is if you submit content of any kind to the Alohomora! website. Especially commenting on the forums. We’re on there a lot of the time ourselves, commenting back.
Kat: Absolutely. And if in the meantime you just want to stay in contact with us, you can follow us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, “Like” us on Facebook at Facebook.com/OpenTheDumbldore, and give us a call, leave us a voicemail. 206-GO-ALBUS. That’s 206-462-5287. And of course our website again is Alohomora.MuggleNet.com, and our email, alohomorapodcast at gmail dot com. And also don’t forget to subscribe to us on iTunes and leave us a review. Not only does that help us bring you better shows more often, but that helps us get better. So, leave them. Please.
Noah: Yup.
Rosie: And we also have our fantastic store where you can get all of the Alohomora! merchandise that you could ever want, including all of our T-shirts at the moment, which currently only have our logo on them but hopefully very, very, very, very soon we should have Desk!Pig merchandise, we should have wizard-werewolf-unicorn or basilisk-wizard-phoenix merchandise, and so much more. And there’s going to be iPhone cases, tote bags, water bottles, anything you could think of, really. And also, don’t forget our app, which is available in the US on iPhone and Android, and in the UK for iPhone only. And that’s $1.99 or 99 pence. And that’s got transcripts, bloopers, alternative endings, host vlogs, and much, much more, and it will have much, much more on it very soon. So, definitely go and check it out.
Kat: And just mentioning that app, we just added a forum, a special forum for app listeners only on our forums. And you need a special password to get into it. There’s exclusive content on the app and exclusive discussions happening on the forums, so you don’t want to miss out on that. Thousands of you have already downloaded the app, and… so why not join in on that conversation? So, head over to Alohomora.MuggleNet.com for information on how you can download that.
Noah: Yeah. And I just put a host vlog on there, so…
Kat: You did.
Noah: …download it so you can see me. [laughs]
Kat: That’s right.
Noah: That about wraps up our episode today, Episode 22. Thank you to the guests.
[Show music begins]
Noah: I’m Noah Fried.
Rosie: I’m Rosie Morris.
Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 22 of Alohomora!.
Noah: Open the Dumbledore!
[Show music continues]
Noah: Rosie, I can’t hear you. Oh, no! No! No!
Rosie: Hello?
Noah: Everyone dropped! It’s… no!
Alex: What did you do?
Noah: No, no, they really didn’t.
Laura: I didn’t do anything.
Noah: It’s just me. I’ve got to call back. Oh, man.
Alex: Hello?
Noah: Are you guys okay? Hello?
Rosie: Can you guys hear me?
Noah: Wait, somebody please answer!
Laura: I didn’t do anything. It just stopped working.
Noah: Why can’t you… it shows your faces there. Why can’t you hear me? No! It’s a façade! You’re not really there!
Alex: I can’t…
Noah: Kat can hear everyone. I can’t hear…
Alex: We’re not connected.
Noah: …anyone. But no one can hear me. Yes. I can’t… Rosie can’t hear a thing. And I’m just scared now.
Rosie: Sorry, editors. We’re having some technical difficulties.
Noah: [sighs] Don’t stop recording, says Kat. Okay.
Alex: We are still recording if you can hear us. [laughs]
Noah: But this is troublesome. This is very, very troublesome. But it does give me time to reflect on the branches…
Alex: Oh my God.
Noah: …on the trees.
Laura: I can’t type for my life!
Noah: They are beautiful today.
Alex: Well, we’re still here.
Noah: Such a great day.
Alex: And see, the timer is going off.
Noah: I can’t talk on Alohomora! about how great a day it is.
Alex: It’s still counting up. But it’s just…
Laura: What are you talking about?
Noah: We’re talking about fictional days.
Alex: When you open it right there.
Laura: [unintelligible]
Noah: But what about right now? What about the day that is today…
Alex: No, I know but that’s what I’m saying. It’s recording right now.
Noah: …in which we record? This beautiful day. When I finish this episode, I will walk out into the snow, barefooted – not barefooted, I will wear shoes – and I’ll just immerse myself, immerse myself…
Alex: That’s so weird! I’m not even hearing…
Noah: …in the cold dew, snow.
Alex: …static.
Noah: What’s Noah saying? Put some damn shoes on, Noah.
Alex: Oh!
Noah: Oh, man.
Rosie: There we go.
Noah: Kat!
Laura: Oh, I hear it.
Alex: We’re back!
[Laura laughs]
Noah: Yay!
Rosie: That was weird.
Alex: That was weird.
Noah: Wait, could anyone hear what I was saying?
Alex and Laura: No.
Noah: In the meantime, would anyone like to join me in a song?
Alex: What?
Noah: In the meantime, would anyone like to join me in a Harry Potter song?
Rosie: No.
Alex: You take it.
Noah: Okay, so just join in. [sings “Hedwig’s Theme”]
[Alex tries to join in and laughs]
Noah: No one’s doing it. [continues singing]
Alex: I was trying to harmonize there!
Noah: Oh, okay. [continues singing]
Alex: [laughs] You basically sound like John Williams, so good for you!
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Really? Me? Aww. You guys, he can do that much better than I can.
[Alex and Laura laugh]
