Transcript – Episode 67
[Show music begins]
Eric Scull: This is Episode 67 of Alohomora! for January 25, 2014.
[Show music continues]
Eric: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Alohomora! I’m Eric Scull.
Caleb Graves: I’m Caleb Graves.
Rosie Morris: And I’m Rosie Morris. And our special guest today is Stephanie Coats. Do you want to introduce yourself, Stephanie?
Stephanie Coats: Yes. So I’m a big fan of the show – I’ve been listening pretty much since the beginning. Huge Potter fan, obviously, and a very proud Ravenclaw.
Eric: Ravenclaw. Now, is that Pottermore official?
Stephanie: Yes, that’s Pottermore official. [laughs]
Eric: Did you think you’d ever be in another House, Stephanie, or was it always Ravenclaw?
Stephanie: That’s a good question. Reading the books, I always just assumed Gryffindor, as I think maybe a lot of kids did. I got to be in that lucky generation of kids that grew up with Harry. So we pretty much always the same age and I just assumed that, like Hermione, I would be in Gryffindor. But then I took a couple of quizzes online and then doing Pottermore, it was Ravenclaw every single time, so… [laughs]
Rosie: That’s pretty definitive.
[Eric and Stephanie laugh]
Eric: Yes, everyone agrees.
Caleb: It’s funny you ask that, Eric, because, really quickly, there was a Buzzfeed quiz that got really popular over the past week. Buzzfeed is doing a ton of quizzes now, and one of them was, “Which Hogwarts House Are You?” It’s a Sorting quiz. I saw a lot of people taking it and a lot of people saying it was giving them much different responses than they were used to.
Eric: Hmm.
Stephanie: There are a lot of quizzes out there, so I could see people getting different responses, sometimes…
[Eric laughs]
Stephanie: … just not me, apparently. [laughs]
Eric: Some of those quizzes though. Questions like, “Do you feel snaky?”
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: It’s quite interesting that the ones that are normally made by fan sites and things are more reliable than the ones that aren’t. So yeah, Buzzfeed doesn’t really have a Harry Potter connection, so I don’t trust it at all.
Caleb: Yeah, I wouldn’t either.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: But it’s nice to have to on, Stephanie. Thank you for joining us.
Stephanie: Thank you. Very happy to be here.
Caleb: And before we continue, we just want to remind you guys to read Chapter 29, “The Dream,” before we get started. Because that is what we are discussing this week.
Eric: Perhaps if this chapter was a dream, perhaps the previous one was one also a dream, but in that case we are going to now be commenting on the dream that we had last week, which was Chapter 28 of Goblet of Fire. The first comment from last week’s chapter discussion comes from SpectacularlyHypothetical, who says,
“I’m not sure that Dumbledore would have checked with Snape about Moody’s excuse for being [on] the grounds. For the simple reason that if Dumbledore had even the slightest suspicion that there was something off about Moody then it wouldn’t have been long before he’d rumble him.”
[laughs] I don’t know what that means, “Rumble him.”
Stephanie: “Rumble him”? [laughs]
Rosie: You don’t have that expression?
Eric: No. What does it mean?
Rosie: It just means catch him, find him out.
Eric: Oh, gosh, rumble sounds like WWE, like Dumbledore’s getting ready to…
Caleb: Let’s get ready to fight!
Eric: “Let’s get ready to rumble!”
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: That’s our Americanism getting in the way.
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: But yes, Spectacularly Hypothetical continues,
“If Snape had mentioned to Dumbledore that he hadn’t sent Moody down, then he would quite quickly work out that something is amiss and then would put an end to Crouch.
We know that Dumbledore trusts Moody quite a lot and really it’s not THAT strange that Moody of all people would make his way to the area, he’s always going on about constant vigilance, I think given Dumbledore focusing on the crisis at hand, he just misses this point.
I think that we see Dumbledore in this book really make his biggest tactical blunders in the entire series. He makes mistakes in other books usually based on his misunderstanding of people’s emotions (Harry’s and Sirius’s) but it’s this book where we really see him being outsmarted by Voldemort – it doesn’t really happen again after this.”
Stephanie: Hmm.
Eric: Hmm. Well, that was a great comment.
Stephanie: That’s a good observation.
Caleb: Yeah, we did talk about this briefly last week, how we do get to see some of Dumbledore’s blunders, and I would agree these are pretty big ones for the guy.
Eric: Hmm.
Rosie: It makes you wonder what he’s focusing on that he’s missing all of these clues.
Eric: Yeah, that’s kind of a good point. I would say he has a tournament to run, but it really not…
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: It kind of runs itself, too.
Eric: We don’t see… it does run itself. Karkaroff unloading on Dumbledore at the end of the last chapter, too. It just shows that they don’t talk that often. Even though they’re guests in each other’s castle, or Karkaroff is a guest there, the fact that he unloaded and had all this crap to say to Dumbledore means there’s unresolved issues. Clearly they don’t see each other every day. Otherwise, that issue, I think, would have long been resolved.
Rosie: Mhm.
Stephanie: Mhm.
Eric: So…
Stephanie: If I could just tag on really quick, one comment that relates to this from last episode was the idea that why doesn’t Dumbledore question Snape tagging along with Moody? If Moody is using this excuse, this reason, that he learned from Snape to come down to the forest, why doesn’t Dumbledore ever think, “Oh, I wonder why Snape didn’t tag along at all?” considering they have all these private conversations and are very involved in the whole Voldemort issue. I thought that was an interesting comment last week.
Eric: Yeah, I would agree. Snape was just being his Snape-y self last week, so he’s clearly in a mood, to put it one way. When Harry says, “I need Dumbledore” and he kicks him out, he holds him up, it just really doesn’t seem like Snape gives a Dark wizard what’s going on.
Rosie: [laughs] We know that Snape and Moody have issues with one another, so it’s not perhaps surprising that Snape doesn’t tag along with someone who suspects him of being an evil wizard.
Stephanie: That’s really true. That’s a really good point, Rosie. [laughs]
Rosie: Which is also ironic, seeing as it’s actually the other guy that’s evil wizard, but never mind.
Stephanie: Yeah. [laughs]
Eric: We did get an Audioboo response basically about this specific topic that we wanted to point our listeners to. You can go and listen to this yourself by visiting the Alohomora! website and clicking on Audioboo on the right, and you will hear further response by one of our listeners to this subject. The next comment comes from LunasLovechild, and this was a little bit of a discussion, but I thought I’d bring it in because it had some interesting revelations. LunasLovechild says,
“I thought that it was interesting that amidst all the discussion about who has a Dark Mark that you forgot to consider that Draco has a Dark Mark, which means that the Dark Mark is clearly a mark given to all Death Eaters because we know that Draco could not have been in the inner circle of them [since he was only a Death Eater] to make up for his father’s disloyalty.”
Now this was quickly retorted by Dan Sharp. This was on the Alohomora! main page. Dan replied,
“Being given the Dark Mark makes you a Death Eater, but not everyone who works for the Dark Lord is given a Dark Mark. Examples: Greyback and Narcissa Malfoy.”
Now, LunasLovechild – I love that username – replied,
“Has it been confirmed that Greyback in fact doesn’t have a Dark Mark? Im just wondering if i missed a crucial bit of canon.”
And SassyHedwig jumped in,
“Yes, he doesn’t have the Dark Mark on his arm. In ‘Deathly Hallows’, after the trio is captured by Greyback and the Snatchers, Scabior asks if Greyback will summon Voldemort so they can get a reward for the capture. Greyback responds with ‘I haven’t got ó they say he’s using the Malfoy’s place as a base. We’ll take the boy there.” (DH, 453). Harry then thinks to himself that Greyback was not allowed to be branded with the Dark Mark because of his werewolf status.”
So I guess this was based on what you guys were talking about last week about. Couldn’t they just find the Dark Mark?
Caleb: Yeah. We talked about that originally, that maybe it was just the inner circle, but I think at the end of the point we did agree that it was likely all Death Eaters, and then – who was it? – Dan pointed out that some people work for Voldemort, like Narcissa, but they don’t necessarily get a Dark Mark. That’s a really good point about Greyback, though. We didn’t talk about that. I had forgotten about that, about he not having one.
Rosie: But we do definitely know that Snape, Karkaroff, and Little Crouch all do have Dark Marks.
Caleb: Right.
Rosie: At least in this book. But I guess another thing considering the Draco idea is that these are two different wars. Perhaps the rules applied to getting a Dark Mark in the first war when Snape, Karkaroff, and Crouch got theirs, don’t apply to the new war when Draco gets his. Maybe the inner circle has broadened with Voldemort’s second coming.
Caleb: It’s possible, yeah.
Stephanie: And I always thought maybe part of the reason to give someone the Dark Mark was if they were doing a task that would require them to call Voldemort to them. So for someone like Draco, who obviously has been given a pretty big task, he would need to be able to call the Death Eaters and the Dark Lord to him at a moment’s notice…
Caleb: Yeah.
Stephanie: … whereas maybe someone like Narcissa isn’t really being given tasks like that. She wouldn’t need that means of communication.
Rosie: It’s also visual proof of Lucius’s punishment as well. He’s literally branding his child at this point.
Eric: [laughs] Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, I was just thinking about that, too. Yeah.
Eric: It’s a shame it’s not more conspicuous, I think, if it would just be as easy for Dark wizard catchers to go around looking for Dark Marks.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: But we have two more comments to get to. One is on the forums from JNA who said,
“What I’ve always thought odd about the maze is that they grow it in a very public place (and in fact draw attention to it, as we see in this chapter). Any champion could easily sit in the seating around the Quidditch pitch, map out the hedges and determine precisely the path they need to take to reach the Triwizard Cup in the centre. If any of them had put their mind to it, they should have been able to memorise the correct path (or they could have covertly drawn a map of it on their forearms), and then half the challenge of the maze would have already been overcome, with the various creatures and enchantments being the only real complication.”
Rosie: That is one thing I actually liked about the movie was that they had the hedges move and eat up the paths so that they wouldn’t have been able to find their way easily through it.
Caleb: Right, yeah. I think someone did suggest that on the forums. This discussion went on for a while. I think someone brought that up, that it would probably change.
Eric: Hmm.
Rosie: It’s a magic maze.
Eric: [laughs] I agree, the movie really didn’t do too bad on that.
Rosie: Apart from the lack of a Sphinx.
Eric: Well, yeah, they then cut out the creatures, didn’t they? And the final comment from last week’s chapter comes from Phoenix on the forums. Phoenix says – this almost feels like a Podcast Question of the Week the way it opens,
“In this chapter, we get a passing glimpse into the other champions’ relationships with each other when Harry and Cedric speculate about the upcoming task and Cedric tells Harry that ‘Fleur keeps going on about underground tunnels; she reckons we’ve got to find treasure.’ This seems to imply that Cedric talks to Fleur on a regular basis. We also know that Fleur and Krum form a friendship (he later takes a long trip to attend her wedding) which most probably goes back to their time at Hogwarts. What do you think about this? Do the other three champions hang out together? Could they all be far less concerned with winning the tournament than their respective heads of school and more into making friends with foreign students, just like Dumbledore wants them to? And if they do hang out together, why do they never invite Harry? Do they exclude him on purpose? That would seem strange to me, since [none] of them seem to particularly hate Harry (even though Krum might be a little jealous). What do you think?”
Rosie: Well, it’s Fleur and Cedric, and then Fleur and Krum. So maybe it’s just Fleur being flirty.
[Eric laughs]
Caleb: That is very possible, probable.
Eric: I imagine that spelled with an “e” and a “u,” for some reason.
Rosie: Yeah.
[Everyone laughs]
Rosie: We know that she’s shopping for a husband in England later on.
Eric: Oh, gosh!
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Yeah, and I don’t… that’s a good point to bring up, that Fleur invites Krum to her wedding. But I think that doesn’t necessarily mean that there was a strong friendship that happened between the two events, being the wedding and the Triwizard Tournament. She just probably felt that connection from back when the did have the tournament.
Eric: Well, Harry’s at the wedding, and Cedric would be if he weren’t dead, so…
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: … I think it’s probably… it could go either way, right?
Caleb: They go through some pretty awful things together through this tournament, so naturally they’re going to have a bond…
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: … that doesn’t necessarily have to be reinforced later.
Rosie: They go to counseling sessions afterward.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah. There always was a blurred line to me. Are they competing against each other? Should they hate each other? Or really, is it all about the cooperation? Because Fleur never forgets what Harry did for Gabrielle.
Caleb: That’s true.
Eric: So there’s that.
Caleb: And we’re going to jump into your responses to our Question of the Week, and to remind you of what that question was: The Witch Weekly articles causes a bit of personal mayhem for Hermione in this chapter, first with Molly, then with Viktor. What is it about the article that would make it believable to Molly or Viktor, the person who would miss Hermione the most. Is it something about Hermione that makes it believable or a personal insecurity? So the first response is from James, a.k.a. GhostHeart, and he says,
“I’d guess it’s a different reason for both Molly and Viktor. For Viktor, I can see him, in a current relationship with Hermione, being concerned that she’s either been with Harry in the past or might leave Viktor for Harry. Since we see how much he likes Hermione, I don’t think he’d hear rumors about Harry and Hermione and not follow up on it. So for him, a little insecurity. Molly, however, is a different matter. We have to remember that, in the end of the day, she’s only spent one summer with Hermione, and it wasn’t in a school context (obviously). Also, she doesn’t really know the personal interaction and relationships between the trio. She didn’t know that halfway through the year that Ron started feeling something for Hermione (which makes me feel bad for Ron: he has absolutely no one to talk to about all his feelings. Maybe they need a counselor at Hogwarts)…”
[Everyone laughs]
Stephanie: Probably.
Caleb: [continues]
“… and she didn’t know that Hermione and Harry had absolutely no romantic interest in each other. Maybe she felt so protective over Harry that she didn’t even think rationally about it, and just took Rita’s word for it. Best I can come up with.”
Rosie: I agree with the point about Viktor because if you consider how much Viktor has actually seen of Hermione before he asked her to the Yule Ball, he was constantly seeing Harry and Hermione hanging out together because Ron had had the argument and had gone off. So he’s already got that idea that “They’re always together. Is there something going on? I’m not quite sure.” Then he asks her out, and then, yeah, all of that stuff happens. So there may still be that insecurity that he’s not quite sure what the relationship between them is. For Molly, it really is just sad. Poor Ron can’t talk to his mummy about his feelings.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: He’s got Ginny, though. She knows where it’s at.
Rosie: Would he talk to Ginny? Because Ginny’s close to Hermione. You wouldn’t tell the girl you like’s best friend that you like her.
Eric: Still, it’s your sister. They should have a talking relationship, but Ron’s not a talker. That’s really the thing.
Rosie: No.
Caleb: That’s true.
Rosie: That’s why it takes him so long to finally get his act together.
Eric: Yeah, yeah.
Caleb: Right.
Eric: Which he may or may not ever do, according to Pottermore.
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Right. And the next comment, response comes from Olivia Underwood, and it says,
“I wonder if Mrs Weasley actually had a hunch that Ron might’ve liked Hermione? I know it’s a stretch, but given how she seems to be the love expert of the family (remember Tonks in HBP?), it could be another reason why she felt strongly about Rita’s report. Also, I guess it’s just another example of Jo showing us how much power the press has over the public and how they can easily manipulate our perceptions. It’s a taster I think of what is to come in OotP etc. as the press becomes more and more involved in Harry’s life.”
Rosie: Good point.
Caleb: Yeah, and I think we know that Jo’s always trying to show the poor influence that the press can have.
Eric: Yeah. Maybe Ron doesn’t send enough owls to his mom either – we did just agree that – but I think that it just says something… Mrs. Weasley has more frequent contact with her Daily Prophet than she does her sons. So when she asks or when people start believing what they get in the paper, it’s because they’re not figuring things out for themselves.
Caleb: Right. Yeah. And the final response comes from StoneHallows, and this response starts off with similar reasonings for Krum’s actions as GhostHeart but also adds,
“I personally commend Krum for being mature in confronting Harry about it.”
So I thought that was a really good point.
Rosie: Very true.
Caleb: [continues]
“Molly, on the other hand, is a sensationalist. Don’t get me wrong, I love the woman and her fierce maternal pride. But her actions over Lockhart, Celestina Warbeck, ‘Witch Weekly’, and so on show that she definitely tends to jump on the bandwagon. That’s all she’s doing here. Someone mentioned in the podcast forum that Molly never really sees Hermione like a daughter because Hermione has a mother that she’s on good terms with. She doesn’t need a mother figure, whereas Harry most assuredly does. I don’t think she thought much about to situation, to be honest. She read it from Rita and jumped into the mother bear role. There was no ‘sense’ to such things, it’s all heart. And if Molly is anything, she is all heart when it comes to her children.”
She’s mentioning because last week we talked about… someone brought up that Molly acts as the “wizard mother” for both Harry and Hermione. But a good point here that Hermione doesn’t necessarily need that.
Eric: I didn’t think about that. It makes perfect sense.
Caleb: All right. Well, thank you guys for those great responses. There are a lot of other great responses. If you head over to the forums on the Question of the Week post, you can take a look at those. And before we move on – he is not on this episode, but he’s going to jump on for just a second – what’s up, Noah?
Noah: Hey, everyone. Noah here and I’m dropping in for a quick hello with my friends Jurga and Greg to share a very innovative product that I’m working on called “Books That Grow.” Say hi, guys.
[Everyone says hello]
Noah: So Greg, what exactly is “Books That Grow”?
Greg: Glad you asked, Noah. “Books That Grow” is an app for tablet devices that host an entire library of books where the text actually changes based on the students’ reading ability. So the aim is for kids with different abilities to actually read together and learn together in the same classroom. Think of books we create as regular books with just a little magic thrown in.
Noah: And Jurga, why should the Alohomora! fans care about it?
Jurga: Well, Noah, as a huge Harry Potter fan myself, I know that reading a good book can really change your life. But in a recent study, it was found that about two-thirds of fourth graders in the United States read below the standard level. Which means that the magical world of Harry Potter, or any good book really, is closed to them. So we hope that “Books That Grow” will help to change that and will help to raise a brand-new generation of readers.
Noah: That’s right, Jurga. And to all those listeners out there, I have an announcement. On Sunday, January 26, we will be launching a Kickstarter campaign for one month hoping to raise $20,000 to further the development of this new reading platform and expand its library. If you can spare some Knuts, Sickles, or heck, even a few Galleons this Sunday, you would have my gratitude. Links to the Kickstarter campaign will be spread throughout the Alohomora! social media channels, so it will be real easy to find. Thank you.
Rosie: Okay. Well, thank you for that, Noah. But it is time to move on to our chapter discussion for this week.
[Goblet of Fire Chapter 29 intro begins]
Trelawney: Chapter 29.
[Mysterious sounds in the background]
Trelawney: “The Dream.”
[Goblet of Fire Chapter 29 intro ends]
Rosie: So following the events of the night before, we have got Harry, Ron, and Hermione trying to work out what actually happened. And Hermione’s got the right idea that someone else might have been there and attacked both Crouch and Viktor. But Ron is being Ron and all for blaming Krum because of course you’re going to blame the guy who’s going after the girl you like. During this little passage, Harry reiterates all of the key points that Crouch Sr. was saying: he wanted to warn Dumbledore; Bertha Jorkins is dead; there is something that is Crouch’s fault; and he keeps mentioning his son. He also kept acting like his wife and son were still alive, and he’s sending instructions to Percy as if he were there. All of these are signs that he’s lost it, but are they also clues? Because if you think about all of those things, they’re not crazy at all. All of these things are actually kind of true. His wife isn’t alive but his son is. He’s sending messages to Percy as if he were there because he keeps sending these messages, even though he’s not going to the office. So it’s kind of an everyday thing for him now anyway, even if it’s a tree, not Percy.
[Caleb laughs]
Rosie: Bertha Jorkins is dead. He needs to warn Dumbledore because he’s the only one who knows what’s actually going on. Something is his fault: he broke his son out of Azkaban, and he’s mentioning his son because that is the thing that he needs to warn Dumbledore about.
Eric: Right.
Rosie: It’s really good writing if you think about it.
Caleb: Mhm.
Eric: It’s really good writing, and I keep getting a little frustrated when something like Bertha Jorkins gets mentioned and Harry doesn’t remember that she was mentioned in his dream at the beginning of the book.
Rosie: Mhm.
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: It’s just like, when is it going to click for him? Does he have to have another crazy dream with Voldemort in it to finally realize?
Rosie: Almost as if that happens this chapter.
[Everyone laughs]
Stephanie: Oh my gosh.
Eric: It’s just that it’s been so long and he still hasn’t remembered Albania, Bertha Jorkins, the Ministry, Voldemort, Barty Crouch, the servant, and this, that, and the other.
Rosie: He really could have solved this all by now. [laughs]
Eric: He really should have.
Stephanie: Oh, that’s such a good point. And Rosie, I’m so glad that you mentioned the fact that even though Crouch’s wife is dead, his son is still alive. Because a couple of episodes ago when the trio go and meet Sirius, they don’t bring up at all the idea that in the last book someone they thought was dead – Pettigrew – turned out to be alive.
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: And this idea that there’s no possibility that that could happen again? That this character who keeps getting mentioned – Barty Crouch’s son, who everyone says is dead – could potentially still be alive? This never even occurs to them.
Eric: Yeah. Well, I think it’s not just the dead coming to life, it’s escaping Azkaban because that’s where Barty Crouch is supposed to be. Last book we found out it was in fact possible…
Stephanie: Right.
Eric: … and Sirius had his way. And when we do eventually get the right answer in this book, we find that something entirely different happened. But again, somebody broke out of Azkaban, which you’re not supposed to be able to do.
Stephanie: Mhm.
Rosie: There’s a lot of really interesting positioning in this chapter. So Jo will mention one thing and then the next thing that she mentions is actually a link. But you wouldn’t ever make that link if you didn’t know.
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: It’s really, really interesting to see how she layers and layers and layers all of these ideas so that you could actually solve this. But I don’t think anyone did before that main reveal.
Eric: Yeah.
Stephanie: No.
Rosie: Really clever. I love Jo.
[Everyone laughs]
Rosie: But anyway, getting back to the chapter, Harry also mentions that Crouch was most lucid when he says that Voldemort is getting stronger. And you just get this sense of amazing tension being built up throughout this book. The threat of Voldemort getting stronger is always there. We know exactly where we’re going to end up at the end of this book, even though we don’t know how we’re going to get there. Voldemort is going to come back. Harry then mentions that if only Snape hadn’t held him up, he could have found out why Crouch was there. So again, why was Snape holding him up? Why was he involved? Was he really just feeling mean? It just seems so odd that he was there at that moment. Too convenient. [laughs]
Eric: Well… yeah, if he wasn’t there, I don’t know that Harry would have gotten to speak to Dumbledore at all, though.
Rosie: No, true.
Eric: Yeah. I don’t know where Dumbledore would have been had he not been receiving Snape for there. But really, there seems to be no reason for it. It was very… it’s one of those things where having the foreknowledge, you just want to be like…
Rosie: “Get out of the way!” [laughs]
Eric: “I know you love my mom, but stop screwing me around!”
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Eric: “I know you’re the Half-Blood Prince. I know you love my mom, okay. Just trust my foreknowledge of the future that I couldn’t possibly know to tell you. This is serious. We have got to tell Dumbledore something.”
Stephanie: “Look into my eyes and believe me.”
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: Yeah, yeah. Just level with him. You know, Snape is… this is still a point in the series where Snape is – I don’t want to say comical – but he’s not the “taking a huge burden” kind of Snape. He’s not the “I must do what is morally right” Snape yet because the Order isn’t back. He isn’t having to go on these missions to prevent real threats, like Voldemort obtaining a weapon. So, he still is able to jerk Harry around and be really unhelpful and criticize everything that he says, when in fact we are seeing it is a very serious situation. He can afford the luxury of not taking Harry seriously and it’s just something that he does far too often. And it’s why we hate Snape in the first few books. He’s terrible.
Caleb: Yup.
Stephanie: It’s why a lot of us still hate Snape.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah.
Stephanie: I think really what I took away from this is another mention of Snape being like a bat. [laughs]
Rosie: True, yeah. If only he could turn into a bat and fly there.
Stephanie: Exactly. Exactly. I think…
Eric: Ron says, “Couldn’t he?” [laughs]
Rosie: But what we do have here is an interesting – like I said a second ago – one of those partnerships where we have the trio saying, “Where is Crouch? If only we knew where he was on the grounds.” And then immediately, we’re brought to Moody and having the map – being able to see Crouch on the map.
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: Which of course if we had the map we could have seen Moody. But not Moody/Crouch – Crouch is on the map. And we could have had the answer right there. So you’ve got these interesting little bits that are clues.
Stephanie: Mhm.
Caleb: Everything happens for a reason. That staircase scene now is so important because that’s how Moody gets the map.
Rosie: Yes. Exactly.
Stephanie: Right.
Rosie: So this whole conversation takes place whilst the trio are in the Owlery, having sent a letter to Sirius explaining what happened the night before. But it is mainly set there just so they can overhear Fred and George talking about blackmailing someone who wouldn’t want the Ministry to be involved. We get a really nice, lovely, classic, comic exchange where everyone says the same phrases in different orders.
Eric: [laughs] This is great. “What are you doing here?” “Nothing. We were sending a…” “What?”
Stephanie: You too?
Caleb: Yeah, I love this scene.
Rosie: It really nicely breaks that tension that has been building.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: Because we had a very dark night the night before. Everyone is very tired and sleepy in this chapter and kind of stressed. So we get this nice little old-fashioned comedy exchange.
Caleb: It’s layered with comedy but it’s also interesting to see Fred and George’s story. I don’t want to say dark, but they become more complex because at the beginning of the series you would never have dreamed of these jokesters talking about possibly blackmailing someone.
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: And they have their own opinions. I think Fred is for it, George is against it. They’re having that small conversation with each other. That rarely happens.
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: We see them talking with each other.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Eric: They’re not always saying the same thing, that sort of thing.
Rosie: It’s also a reminder that life goes on in Hogwarts that’s not connected to the trio.
[Eric and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: They have their own blackmailing backstory going on.
[Eric and Stephanie laugh]
Caleb: Yeah, exactly.
Rosie: This is the first time that we actually get Ron linked to being a prefect, which is obviously a bit of foreshadowing. And it’s another mention of Percy, so we also get this reiterating idea that Percy is ever-present in this scene, even if Mr. Crouch isn’t. Someone is missing, someone is constantly mentioned.
Eric: When does it mention a prefect? I must have missed that.
Rosie: I think Fred says something.
Caleb: Yeah, they make fun of him. Yeah, they say, “You’re going to end up as a prefect like Percy,” and then Ron immediately denies it – “No, I’m not!” – which is even funnier.
Eric: Yeah. [laughs]
Stephanie: Well, funny not only because he becomes a prefect later but [also because] in the first book when he looks in the Mirror of Erised he sees himself as Head Boy.
Rosie: That’s so true, I completely forgot that.
Stephanie: So on some level, he wants that.
Caleb: Yeah, but he doesn’t want to admit it to Fred and George because they’ll make fun of him. Yeah.
Stephanie: Well, that’s true.
Rosie: Look at that character development in Ron. Wow.
[Caleb, Eric, and Stephanie laugh]
Eric: Well, I don’t think he ever earns being a prefect, right? I mean, isn’t it just…?
Caleb: Dumbledore wants him to have his moment.
Eric: Dumbledore chooses him to make Harry feel snubbed in the next book.
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Rosie: He does earn being a prefect. Otherwise, Dumbledore could have picked Neville or someone. Probably not Neville because he’d just do everything wrong all the time, but…
Eric: Well, we see Draco abuse it and all that, but I really think he was too narrow in his choosing of the Gryffindors.
Rosie: What about Seamus Finnigan? Why couldn’t he be the…?
Caleb: Yeah. I would say…
Eric: He could be.
Caleb: Seamus is not a very good student.
Eric: Oh.
Rosie: He’d blow things up all the time, that’s true. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah. I think Dean is probably the best candidate.
Eric: I don’t know.
Rosie: Oh, well.
Eric: But when Ron is your best guy…
[Caleb, Eric, and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: That’s true.
Eric: It’s good enough for Harry. I guess we should quiet down.
Caleb: Dumbledore probably knew Harry was going to leave to go Horcrux hunting.
Rosie: But it could be Dumbledore trying to match-make Ron and Hermione a bit.
Caleb: Oh.
Rosie: They’re obviously destined to be together.
Eric: I think so. I think he’s a…
Caleb: Puppetmaster.
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: It’s not the death of Harmony after all.
Rosie: Not Harmony.
Caleb: No.
Rosie: It’s Ron and Hermione.
Caleb: He did it for Ron and Hermione.
Eric: Oh, RON-ione… ROHM-ee-own..
Caleb: Is there a ship name for Ron and Hermione?
Eric: Of course there is. But I don’t know it.
Rosie: It’s “Romione.” It’s just R-O-mione.
Eric: You’d think they could come up with something better.
Caleb: Hate on Harry and Hermione what you will, but that’s the best ship name.
Rosie: Harmony. Yeah. [laughs]
Stephanie: Yeah, it’s really good.
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: Anyway, it’s interesting that the twins are so serious about their joke shop idea. And it’s really no wonder that they’re so obsessed with money throughout this book when Bagman has pretty much gone off with their life savings, as well as the winnings, so they’ve got literally no money to get their idea started. All they want to do is bring a little bit of joy into the world.
Eric: Yeah, you really can’t blame them for even considering blackmail.
Rosie: No.
Eric: Anything that will work to get their money back from Bagman. It’s just… yeah.
Caleb: Yeah. That’s their money in the end, whatever the motive.
Rosie: I mean, Bagman is really the criminal here. They’re just trying to track it down. And they think that there’s no chance that they could go through the proper channels because Bagman is [a] famous ex-Quidditch player now Ministry official.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: It’s not really blackmail. It’s just telling him to do the right thing. Ron says, “Tell Percy. He’d probably do a Crouch and turn him in.” Which is interesting because it’s constant reminders that Crouch betrayed his son. So we’ve got another idea that Percy is going to betray the Weasleys in some way. Again, slowly laying these ideas. And then we get straight into another mention of Moody, linking the idea of betrayal-Moody, betrayal-Crouch, little Crouch, all of that all in one very small sentence.
Eric: My head is swimming. [laughs]
Rosie: It’s so clever.
Stephanie: And none of us picked up on it the first time.
[Eric and Rosie laugh]
Eric: Nope.
Caleb: Not at all.
Eric: I’m pretty sure if it weren’t just for Rosie, I wouldn’t have picked it up ever.
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: But if your brains are taxed, don’t worry [because] the trio’s are, too. Everyone is extemely tired, and they’ve gone off to history of magic, and even Hermione is falling asleep at the desk. Shocker.
[Caleb, Eric, and Stephanie laugh]
Caleb: That’s when you know things are rough.
Eric: Yeah. It says [that] She just stares at Professor Binns, and I was like, “What is she thinking right now?” Because he’s a ghost, and he still teaches. That’s kind of cool.
[Eric and Rosie laugh]
Eric: But it can’t be exciting for him, seriously. I don’t know.
Rosie: Is it exciting for anyone, really?
Eric: No. That class should just be nixed. Surely, surely, Binns has another life skill from his life that he could employ in his afterlife.
Rosie: You’d think… most people say that you decide to be a ghost because you’ve got unfinished business. What was Binns’s unfinished business? He just hadn’t finished the lecture, yet?
Eric: Yeah, he’s like, “Part 2 of my lecture.” [laughs] But then there was that joke that he didn’t even realize he was dead.
Rosie: That’s just typical history professor.
Eric: Yes.
[Caleb laughs]
Rosie: If anyone’s ever seen a history [lecture] at [a] university.
Eric: It is really the perfect history teacher, and I know that every time they’re going into these classes, they’re dreading it or falling asleep, but it is the history teacher who could just keep going for eternity over.
Rosie: Even if he died, yeah.
Eric: Yeah, yeah. It’s really brilliant.
Rosie: So once they’ve woken up a little bit and have left History of Magic, they run off to try and find Moody, who… it says that he kind of looks as tired as they feel, which makes you wonder what he’s been up to in the night. We think at this moment that he’s been out searching for Crouch all night when of course we actually know he’s been burying him. And we’ve got an Audioboo clip here from…
Caleb: Estee Thomas.
[Audio]: Hi, guys. This is Estee Thomas a.k.a. DolphinPatronus from the main site and forums, and I had a few things I wanted to bring up for Chapter 29. Do you think the trio would have found Moody out of his disguise had they gone straight from the owlery to find him? Even when they find him at break time he is described as looking more lopsided than usual twice, and he takes two long drinks from his flask during the conversation. Could his extra lopsided appearance be because he hadn’t taken his Polyjuice as diligently overnight? Is this another missed chance to catch little Crouch before it’s too late?
Caleb: So this is an interesting question, but I mean, I think it’s def… I mean, it’s… obviously, he’s drinking Polyjuice Potion. I don’t know if Moody – or Crouch, rather – would put himself in a position where people would have access to him when he would be in a place to be exposed, if that makes sense. So I don’t think they could have just gone straight there and then discovered him because I don’t think he would be out in the open.
Rosie: No, yeah.
Eric: But is he slipping on maybe not regularly taking the potion? These descriptors like “He’s lopsided”…
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: I even caught them myself, but it seems to support the idea that… he did just commit patricide. So there’s that, kind of looking like…
Rosie: And to be fair, he was almost found out last night as well. That was the closest he’s been to being discovered the whole year.
Caleb: Yeah, I definitely think he probably did not take his Polyjuice Potion as regularly as he should [have], especially with everything he’s been doing, so it definitely probably was close.
Stephanie: Well, and when the trio [was] saying they were going to go see him, and there was a suggestion put forward of going straight to him in the morning, and Harry says, “No, he would probably curse us through the door”…
[Rosie laughs]
Stephanie: … I thought, “Well, if you had gone…” they might have discovered little Crouch rather than Moody because doesn’t Polyjuice wear off after an hour?
Eric: Yeah.
Stephanie: He’d have to take it throughout the night.
Eric: That’s why he has his flask.
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: Oh, through the night. Oh, I get what you’re saying. Hmm.
Caleb: Hmm, interesting.
Eric: That’s very interesting. So he wakes up as himself. Well, I’m just wondering why he doesn’t have a full leg because if he used… if you’re thinking DNA… but that’s a completely different subject. [laughs]
Caleb: [laughs] Yeah, right.
Eric: Still, I really wonder… one of the things that I was wondering right about the time that this part of the chapter came… why isn’t Dumbledore with Harry? Why hasn’t Dumbledore shown up this morning, yet, because it seems like the way they left things in the previous chapter where Dumbledore said, “Go straight up to the castle. Any owls you want to send…” – etc. – “… can wait until tomorrow…” etc. It just seemed like Dumbledore would be one to just catch up, meet up with Harry again and be like, “This is what we found” and have a… not just a heart to heart but catching up because they went through something very drastic the previous night, and Dumbledore is nowhere to be seen.
Rosie: I think it hasn’t yet finished for Dumbledore because I mean, later on we see the conversation with Moody and Fudge and Dumbledore in Dumbledore’s office, so maybe he’s still dealing with the fallout of the situation, so he hasn’t actually had the chance to go and talk to Harry, yet.
Eric: Oh, that’s a good point – that it’s still being kind of closed with Moody – and I didn’t think about that.
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: But yeah, just because I thought they had something great going on last chapter…
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: … and it’s… well, there are still bits of things that Harry hasn’t told Dumbledore…
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: … I think, that would warrant their own conversation if it weren’t for the events of this chapter to add to them.
Stephanie: Well, and we’re going to get a taste of Harry keeping things from Dumbledore in the next chapter because he’s not going to be completely honest.
Eric: Oh, great. I haven’t read that, yet, but I’m not looking forward to it. [laughs]
Rosie: [laughs] In the meantime, though, we do have a conversation with Moody to cover, in which he actually tells Hermione that she should be an Auror as well as Harry.
Eric: Come on. [laughs]
Stephanie: Yeah.
Rosie: He really wants to create all of these really good Aurors. What’s going on with him?
Stephanie: [laughs] Oh my gosh.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: You’re meant to be a Death Eater. You should be sabotaging this, not the other way around.
Eric: I just thought of a sign that says “Moody’s Bootcamp” and has a pile of…
[Caleb, Rosie, and Stephanie laugh]
Eric: It’s just training. “So you want to be an Auror? Okay.” It really diminishes, I think, what he said to Harry. If he says…
Rosie: It really does.
Eric: … giving it around, spreading it around. “You can be an Auror!”
Rosie: Except that Hermione is brilliant, so if you can compliment Hermione by saying she should be an Auror, and you’ve been told that you should be an Auror, too, then it’s obviously something to desire.
Eric: I guess.
Rosie: Which is obviously what Ron’s thing says because he pipes up…
Stephanie: Poor Ron.
Rosie: … going “I have an idea, too.” And then doesn’t actually get the stamp of approval.
[Eric laughs]
Caleb: No recognition.
Rosie: Poor Ron. [laughs] It got me wondering, though, if this whole situation was Moody becoming nervous. Hermione was so clever with her points, so sharp that perhaps he’s saying, “Oh, you should be an Auror, too,” covering his own uncertainty and nervousness about the situation. It’s a really good distraction technique.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s true.
Rosie: Compliment them into not looking deeper.
Stephanie: And especially for somebody like Hermione, just as smart as she is, we don’t get many scenes of an adult directly complimenting her for her cleverness except for Lupin, really, at this point.
Rosie: No.
Stephanie: And now Death Eater-in-disguise Moody.
Rosie: It’s a real way of winning her trust is complimenting her and making her say, “Oh, this guy really likes me.” Yeah.
Stephanie: Mhm. Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, that’s an Achilles heel.
Rosie: Yeah. And of course, Moody then said, “The only thing we know for sure is that he’s not here,” which of course is the complete opposite of the truth.
[Eric laughs]
Stephanie: Liar.
Rosie: He is the one [who] tells the trio to forget the whole thing and focus on the third task, reminding Harry of all of his previous achievements with the Philosopher’s Stone and telling him to get practicing, ready to go through that maze. He actually warns Ron and Hermione to keep an eye on Harry here as well, so he’s literally turning our heroes into lookouts for the enemy without us even realizing.
[Eric laughs]
Caleb: So clever.
Rosie: It’s amazing. If he [were]n’t such an evil guy it would just be total bow down in amazement but no, because he’s evil. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: Well, he did get twelve OWLs.
Caleb: Yeah.
Stephanie: Hey, that’s true, too.
Caleb: He’s a smart guy.
Rosie: He’s very smart. Someone who is perhaps not as smart – I don’t know – is Sirius.
[Caleb, Eric, and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: But he does offer exactly the same advice. He warns Harry not to go walking off on his own with Krum, so here, even if Cedric, Fleur, and Krum were inviting Harry to his party, he’s not allowed to go anymore.
[Eric laughs]
Stephanie: My godfather says I can’t.
Eric: Sorry, my godfather says I can’t go.
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: Harry has never had that before; it would be quite a new experience for him. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. [laughs]
Rosie: But yeah, Sirius reminds him that there is a constant danger. Harry says, “No one’s tried to attack me all year.” Really, Harry? What was the Hungarian Horntail? [laughs]
Stephanie: Oh my gosh.
Eric: [laughs] Just what was that, Harry, what? Yeah.
Rosie: No one’s tried to kill me except a dragon, a whole pack of merpeople, some grindylows, there’s a whole lake thing where I had to go and not drown… yeah, no one’s tried to kill me at all.
Eric: Yeah, but it’s only three times a year as opposed to how many times he’s used to.
Rosie: True. [laughs]
Eric: I think even he’s buying into the idea that it’s a controlled environment or somehow separate or special.
Rosie: Yeah. And the fact that Sirius is giving the same instructions as Moody actually adds credibility to Moody’s believability. We trust Moody implicitly here because everyone is offering the same advice.
Stephanie: Mhm.
Caleb: Yup.
Rosie: And it’s interesting that the three people [who] are mentioned in the same row here are Sirius, Hagrid, and Moody, so Moody is kind of given that third father figure placement here.
Eric: Yeah, because Hagrid right at the end of the last chapter – right? – told Harry not to hang around with the [gruffy] foreigners.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Just like that.
Stephanie: Yeah. That’s how he said it.
Caleb: After he slammed Karkaroff into a tree.
[Eric, Rosie, and Stephanie laugh]
Stephanie: Hang around. Get it?
Caleb: Oh, I love that so much.
Rosie: So it’s interesting that at this point in the chapter, kind of halfway through – well, more two-thirds [of the] way through – we finally see Harry following orders. He starts training in earnest in between classes, which makes a real nice change. He’s actually doing voluntary homework and all that kind of thing…
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: … even when Ron is suggesting practicing on Mrs. Norris or Dobby rather than him.
Eric: Oh, gosh. I love it where Hermione is talking to him, and he’s like, “well, you should try, Hermione,” and she’s [like], “Nope, I think Harry has mastered it now.”
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: I love that she blames him for falling wrong as well.
Stephanie: Right.
Rosie: He’s been Stunned; he can’t say which direction he’s going to fall.
[Caleb laughs]
Rosie: Hermione is just enjoying the pain, I think. [laughs]
Stephanie: Yeah. I love that so many of the spells that he’s learning are ones that we see crop up so often in later books.
Rosie: Yes. Yeah. And all the video games and things as well.
Stephanie: This is where they come from. Yes.
Rosie: We see them a lot earlier than we perhaps realized.
Stephanie: Yes.
Rosie: But they are actually practicing between classes and the bell goes so… who knew there were bells in Hogwarts?
Eric: Well, who knew there was a giant grandfather clock in Hogwarts, too, but it happens.
Rosie: True.
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: So they head off and separate. Hermione goes off to Arithmancy, and Harry and Ron head up to Divination, which is the perfect place to lose all focus that they’ve finally managed to gather and fall asleep but not before opening the window. This is important; we will find out why in a second. I thought it was really interesting that at this moment Trelawney says that they are finishing up their stargazing sessions, but she picks out that Mars is in a really interesting position. And obviously, next book, I think it is… was it next book, or was it the first book?
Eric: The first book they say, “Mars is bright tonight.”
Rosie: First book. Yeah. First book the centaurs say, “Mars is bright tonight,” and it means that Voldemort is returning. And here again we have Trelawney picking out that Mars is in an interesting position. What does it mean? Voldemort is returning.
Caleb and Stephanie: Yup.
Rosie: Harry really should start learning these things.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: But the window is open, and Harry notes before he falls asleep that there is an insect humming somewhere behind the curtain. Who is that insect?
Caleb: Damn you, Rita Skeeter!
[Stephanie laughs]
Eric: Oh, man.
Rosie: It’s Rita Skeeter. So if we’d always looked for that insect, we would know what was going to happen.
Eric: Is she just lingering outside the windows of all of Harry’s classes?
[Stephanie laughs]
Rosie: Do you think she’s gotten a copy of his timetable somehow?
Stephanie: Yeah.
Eric: She knows his schedule and is just like, “Okay, that’s this window. Got to fly up there. [makes buzzing noise]
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Stephanie: She’s got it mapped out.
Eric: “Maybe somebody will open the window and let me in.” [laughs] [makes buzzing noise] Geez.
Stephanie: [laughs] “Draco!” [makes buzzing noise]
Eric: Yeah.
Rosie: [laughs] But Harry does actually fall asleep at this moment and he starts to dream, and the dream says that he is actually flying on an owl towards a mysterious house, which of course we know is the Riddle House. And it makes you wonder: How is he doing it? He’s on an owl! Normally he’s Voldemort. Why is he now on an owl? And then he leaves the owl’s back to watch Voldemort receive a message from said owl and then tell Wormtail that he is not going to be fed to Nagini. But there doesn’t seem to be any other occupant in the room, so how is Harry seeing this at this point?
Caleb: Yeah, that’s… I am really confused about this and it made me think about the first scene we see in the Riddle House at the beginning of the book where there’s a moment where it seems like Harry is from no one’s point of view because he individually names all the characters in the room…
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: … and so it seems like a similar thing is happening here…
Stephanie: Hmm.
Caleb: … but then we know later in the series he specifically sees things through Voldemort’s eyes.
Rosie: Yeah. Because I mean, he’s supposed to be able to see through this kind of Horcrux connection, so one Horcrux can see through the other Horcrux’s eyes almost if the object has eyes.
Caleb: Yeah. It’s also, like you mentioned, very strange… I didn’t understand the owl part at all.
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: Well, that owl is delivering the message from Barty Crouch, I guess…
Stephanie: Yes. Yes.
Caleb: Okay, that makes sense.
Eric: … stating that Crouch Sr. has been killed. Now, I…
Rosie: But then why would Harry attach to that message? It’s very strange.
Eric: Yeah, it’s weird that he would attach to… but that is the message that the owl is carrying.
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: So the owl actually exists, is the weird part of it all…
Caleb: Okay.
Eric: … that Harry is riding an owl. So Harry is either really tiny or the owl is really big.
Rosie: It’s almost as if one of the Horcruxes has gone for a wander and it’s…
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: … going for a nice little fly out the window and then just lingering in the corner.
Caleb: Voldemort can just project the power of the Horcrux?
Eric: The Horcrux has extended to the will of Voldemort now…
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: … or has extended to his servants. That sort of thing.
Rosie: So maybe this is the bit of soul that isn’t quite being put into Nagini yet but will eventually. So maybe he’s killed Bertha Jorkins and maybe it’s a piece of soul that was broken off of there. It’s just kind of floating in the corner of the room.
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: Who knows?
Eric: I like that. I like that. Let’s go with that.
Stephanie: I might be reading into this way too much but it really struck me, looking at this chapter this time around, how Harry’s dreams have evolved since the first book…
Rosie: Mhm.
Stephanie: … where before he had what we would consider more normal dreams where there’s imagery and symbolism that we later figure out tie into parts of the story, whereas now he’s having visions of things in real time…
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: … and then later he’s experiencing things as part of Voldemort. So I just saw a little evolution for me in this chapter.
Rosie: Sure. It’s interesting, the difference between this one and a dream that he has in the next book as well. The dream where Voldemort interrupts an actual dream where he’s dreaming about kissing Cho or something.
Stephanie: Mhm.
Rosie: So this one… this is before Voldemort is aware of this connection so he doesn’t actually know… he is not controlling what Harry is seeing in any way.
Stephanie: Right.
Rosie: So it’s almost more of a free vision than any of the other dreams that he has. He can see exactly what’s going on from a very strange point of view from what seems to be nothing. Maybe there’s a portrait on the wall or something. Who knows?
[Eric and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: But it’s just very, very strange but very, very vivid and very important to telling us what’s going on.
Stephanie: Yes.
Eric: Yeah. And it’s really nice to see something that becomes such a huge deal in Book 5…
Stephanie: Mhm.
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: … make a showing in Book 4. The fact that he can see through Voldemort and see what Voldemort is up to.
Rosie: So we then see that Voldemort is actually torturing Wormtail for the failure of actually losing Crouch because Wormtail was meant to be keeping guard.
Eric: Oh, that’s why!
Rosie: Yeah! Did you not get that?
Eric: No, I wasn’t sure why he was punishing… he’s like, “Wormtail, your blunder has cleared up. Okay, that sounds good.”
Rosie: Yeah, he was meant to be keeping an eye on Crouch Sr. and Crouch Sr. got out.
Eric: Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah. Dodged a bullet there, Wormtail.
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: So yeah, he uses the Cruciatus Curse on Wormtail and Harry screams as if he is experiencing the pain of the Curse himself, as if that piece of soul was currently in Wormtail or something…
[Eric laughs]
Rosie: … because normally when he experiences this pain it’s some connection to the Horcrux, and we actually see him rolling on the floor clutching his scar. But it doesn’t seem to be Voldemort’s anger at this moment. The blunder has been fixed. He can’t be that angry. He’s just feeling kind of vindictive against Wormtail.
Eric: Right.
Rosie: So again, what’s going on? Is this another bit of Horcrux that’s actually got in the way of his Cruciatus Curse? It just seems very odd that Harry should feel the pain of this Curse when he’s not actually being Wormtail.
Eric: Yeah, that’s a good point. I mean, really, when you think about it hard enough, this scene doesn’t fit with everything else we know about what causes Harry’s scar to hurt…
Rosie: Right.
Eric: … and what causes his visions.
Caleb: Do you think it’s maybe because Jo had not really fully figured out what she wanted to do with that Horcrux connection?
Eric: Yeah.
Rosie: It could be. Yeah.
Eric: I mean, behind the scenes I think that’s the answer. I guess we could have people saying the life debt that Wormtail owes Harry is allowing him to travel…
[Rosie laughs]
Stephanie: Oh.
Eric: … to feel Wormtail’s side of the story here, but if he didn’t…
Rosie: I don’t think…
Eric: … that alone…
Rosie: … Wormtail’s life debt would torture Harry.
[Caleb, Eric, and Rosie laugh]
Eric: Yeah. I don’t know why when Wormtail gets tortured Harry gets tortured. Well, I guess extreme joy can make his scar tingle too, right? Because…
Rosie: True.
Eric: … Voldemort, when he kills Frank Brice, that scar pain wakes Harry up in the beginning of the book.
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: But then again you have this Unforgivable Curse being used and Harry’s flipping out about it.
Stephanie: I just think, too, especially at this point and even more so in the next book, that whenever Harry is in his dreams that’s when he feels the most vulnerable to Voledmort because there’s nothing that he can do except wake up. So the same way we get trapped in a nightmare and no matter what you do you can’t get out of it. Sometimes you wake up feeling as though it were real because it was that vivid and emotional and for him it’s actual events that are happening with one of the things he fears most, which is Voldemort.
Rosie: True. So maybe there isn’t actually a reaction to the curse itself that’s causing the pain. It’s just Harry’s… it’s almost like Harry’s brain is causing that pain trigger because he knows that the curse is being used in some way. And he almost feels that pain because his brain is tricking him into it. To kind of sciene it up a bit.
[Rosie laughs]
Stephanie: I think so. And, I mean, later on he will experience it. So it could just be some foreshadowing there.
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: But I think it’s definitely his brain making it up for him.
Rosie: Okay.
Stephanie: How nice.
[Eric laughs]
Eric: Thanks, brain.
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Stephanie: Thanks a lot.
[Stephanie laughs]
Rosie: Well, the pain wakes him up. We’ve seen it do so many times before and unfortunately this time Harry fell asleep in a public place. So the entire class is staring at him kindly looking slightly weirded out that there’s a boy screaming in pain on the floor. But for once, Harry goes directly to Dumbledore proving that he’s finally learned his lesson but will only do this once. On the way to Dumbeldore’s office, he’s really thinking about what’s going on and accidentally walks past the gargoyle and has to retrace his steps slightly which does nothing except get him up to the office at the exact moment he needed to be there. And, of course, again the gargoyle is passworded. Why a password at the headmaster’s office? Shouldn’t he be contactable at all times? Who knows? It’s a very odd school.
Eric: I think that’s a great question, though. The fact that Dumbledore’s password a couple of years ago was lemondrop or whatever it was and it’s food so Harry goes off this riff of name all the food-related items I can and okay…
Rosie: It’s just a chance for Jo to have some fun. Gross food titles.
Eric: Yeah. And eventually he gets it with Cockroach Cluster I guess it is.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Eric: That turns out to be the password, but if you’re not going to… if you’re going to make your password guessable you shouldn’t have one. And furthermore he is the headmaster. People legit need to seem him all the time. You would think that perhaps he would have office hours where there’s no password or something like that where you can get to Dumbledore an easier way.
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: Well, I don’t know though because then you have first years wanting to wander up there and talk to the headmaster…
Eric: I don’t think so. I think they’re all…
Stephanie: … all the time about everything.
Eric: Nervous. I think Dumbledore would make time for them. I mean we do see that these teachers live in their offices which are next to or ajacent… conjoined to their offices. Which that’s okay I get that, wanting to keep your house separate or your living quarters separate from students but the fact that it’s his office and really running the school has to come from somewhere. He should be more approachable. If you can find a first year brave enough to go talk to the big man…
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Eric: … because, I mean, Harry was terrified of Dumbeldore in the first book and going to see him. He’s just that calm, quiet superpower that eminates from him is preventing… so I don’t think people would abuse it but the alternative is just standing there, kicking the gargoyle, hurting your big foot…
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Eric: Like he did… like Harry did in the last chapter. And wait for somebody to come out or hopefully cause such a raucous in your argument with Snape that Dumbledore hears and comes down.
Caleb: But if there’s no password there’s also the risk of, like what happens here,someone overhears a really important and otherwise private conversation that Dumbledore’s having with let’s say the Minister for Magic.
Rosie: That’s true.
Stephanie: Yeah. That’s a really good point, Caleb.
Eric: Well, they should just have a ringer bell – like a bell when you enter the store. Like ding, ding, ding.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: You know when someone is coming up the stairs. I think that would be easier.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: But as Eric said, this password is particularly guessable. He just lists a load of food and eventually comes up with one…
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: … that happens to be the right one.
Caleb: That was my thought. Why… that’s… if you’re going to have a password, you’ve got to make it better than that.
Rosie: Yeah. But Cockroach Cluster does get him through and he does ascend the stairs and finds Fudge dismissing Dumbledore’s concerns.
Stephanie: Of course.
Rosie: And there’s actually another Audioboo clip here.
[Audio]: Hi, guys. It’s Leah, or Hufflepuffskein, here and I had a question for the chapter discussion of the dream when Harry’s overhearing Dumbledore and Fudge’s and Moody’s conversation. Fudge says, “Dumbledore, I’m afraid I don’t see the connection, don’t see it at all.” He says, “Ludo says Bertha’s perfectly capable of getting lost. I agree we would have expected to have found her by now, but all the same, we’ve no evidence of foul play, Dumbledore. None at all. As for her disappearance being linked with Barty Crouch’s,” and he doesn’t get to finish his thought on that score because Moody then steers the direction about specifically Crouch’s death, but here I’m wondering, what do you guys think is Dumbledore’s actual full suspicion about the link between Bertha Jorkins and Barty Crouch? Do you think that he’s deduced the actual situation? Or does he think that they’re linked in a different way?
Caleb: See, at first I wasn’t so sure that Dumbledore had figured a lot out, but then I thought about the way he’s responding to the stuff they’re talking about and it just seems like his responses are very short, they’re not full of explanation, which makes me think he’s thinking about a lot of things in his head and is not totally there in the conversation.
Rosie: Hmm.
Caleb: So I think he may be starting to suspect some things.
Eric: It was just so… what’s the word? I don’t want to use annoying, but it’s so typical that Fudge should continue to be, “Oh, well Bertha, she just gets lost, you know! It happens. And she probably got herself lost and yeah, I’ll agree it’s weird we haven’t found her, but you know what? It’s just her and it’s…”
Stephanie: Yeah.
Eric: And you just… for the fiftieth time in this book and you’re a little surprised that Dumbledore takes it as well as he does, but perhaps that’s because he realizes at this point that it’s going to be something that he has to prove without the Minister’s help.
Rosie: Mhm. Do you think he’s starting to suspect Moody? Because Moody is actually in this room at the same time, so…
Eric: I don’t think… it’s just like when you see last chapter, when he just walks out of the forest…
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: … because he was there…
[Eric and Rosie laugh]
Eric: It’s like well, okay, that should click, but it doesn’t because you just know that’s the person who’s so close to you that you overlook their obvious betrayal.
Rosie: Mhm.
Stephanie: Yeah. I wonder if Dumbledore – from Harry’s description of what Crouch was like – is thinking that maybe Mr. Crouch had been under the Imperius Curse and so is reluctant to really delve into that with Fudge around because Fudge won’t listen anyway about that kind of thing.
Rosie: True, but then what’s the point in briefing Fudge anyway?
Stephanie: Well, is Dumbledore briefing Fudge? Or is Fudge following up with Dumbledore?
Rosie: I thought that Dumbledore was briefing Fudge because it’s Fudge dismissing Dumbledore’s concerns. So Dumbledore’s obviously discussed his concerns and what’s going on…
Stephanie: Oh, okay.
Rosie: … at this moment and Fudge is saying, “No, no! We don’t need to worry about it at all.” But I don’t know. I think the key thing here is that Moody is actually there as if he’s making sure that the topic is dropped.
Eric: Right.
Rosie: He’s there to…
Stephanie: Mhm.
Rosie: … big up Fudge’s points and say to Dumbledore, “Don’t’ worry, I’ll find it,” kind of thing.
Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely.
Rosie: And we see that Fudge here shows his prejudices against Madame Maxime. Moody asks what he thinks happened to Crouch and doesn’t contradict Fudge when he points out that Madame Maxime was nearby and you know what the giants are like. And of course, he then says, “Can we wrap up this conversation?” And Fudge says, “Yes, let’s! Let’s go and have a tour of the grounds, see what’s going on.” And Moody says, “No, no! Harry’s just outside the door.” So here…
[Stephanie laughs]
Rosie: … there could have gone and found a bone, but nope. Harry was outside the door. And that’s the end of the chapter.
Eric: And so this whole chapter, all I wanted was for Harry to talk to Dumbledore about what he found and…
Stephanie: I know.
Rosie: And doesn’t he get to.
Eric: No, the chapter ends right as he’s about to. So ugh! That’s a shame, but it’s still a good chapter.
Rosie: It’s quite a serious chapter, but there’s so much in there and it’s so interesting to pick out all of those clues.
Caleb: Yeah. And it’s also much shorter than recent chapters, so…
Stephanie: Yes!
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: I was surprised reading it again how short it was considering what happens and how that plays out throughout the rest of the novel.
Rosie: I think we see it as a bit of a filler chapter to get from the events of last night to this conversation now.
Stephanie: Mhm.
Rosie: But there is actually so much detail in just the thought processes that they all go through to talk through what actually happened last night and find all of these clues and find all of these things that they haven’t quite put together yet, but we as an audience who have read it before can actually now find. It’s just… it’s a brilliant chapter. I really like it.
Eric: Yeah. Agreed. Just the depth by which Barty Crouch’s covering his tracks…
Rosie: Mhm.
Eric: … or Moody, I should say. Little Crouch is covering his tracks, making sure he’s micromanaging, he’s managing Harry, Hermione, and Ron’s thoughts on the matter and we see he’s managing Dumbledore’s and he’s the one in charge of the search for his father, whom he buried. So it’s like, well, he just holds all the cards.
Stephanie: Something that occurred to me this time reading through, was I felt really sad for Mr. Crouch knowing what we know later on happens in the book…
Rosie: Mhm.
Stephanie: … that I just was thinking about the amount of effort and pain he must of gone through to get to Hogwarts and try to tell Dumbledore….
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: … the information that he had and because I think we confirmed in the last chapter that he’d been wandering around for two months until he makes it to Hogwarts. Isn’t that right?
Rosie: I think so, yeah.
Eric: I thought it was weeks or a couple of days. I think he… or no, he’s described as looking like he’d been outdoors for two weeks.
Stephanie: Right. And little Crouch gets the eagle owl informing him that his father has escaped and I just felt really sad because he was so close to his goal that must of kept him going all this time…
Eric: Yeah.
Stephanie: … and to fail right at the end was just really disturbing [laughs] and troubling to me.
Rosie: And especially to fail within the grounds of Hogwarts where you’re supposed to be safe.
Stephanie: Yes.
Rosie: It’s an ultimate betrayal.
Eric: But yeah, it’s… well, it is the ultimate… nobody expects a son to attack his father. But that’s just what happens. That’s why it doesn’t succeed is because you have somebody as… now I’m going to call him evil, but yeah. I mean, you have someone like the son going against the father that prevents all good from being done.
Rosie: Not only that, but this is the father that saved your life. This is the father that broke you out of a jail that you were supposed to stay in…
Eric: Yeah.
Rosie: … until you went mad and died.
Stephanie: That’s right.
Eric: He put you in there to begin with, though.
Rosie: True.
Eric: He put you there to begin with because he couldn’t…
Rosie: Yeah.
Eric: … I don’t know maybe they didn’t have enough hearts to hearts as kids and when he was a kid and…
Rosie: But he didn’t put him there. Crouch’s… little Crouch’s own actions put him there.
Eric: [laughs] Oh, right!
Rosie He tortured those Longbottoms!
Eric [as Barty Crouch Jr.] Well, you don’t know father! You didn’t do…
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: Yeah, we can talk about Crouch’s shortcomings in that chapter, but it’s…
[Stephanie laughs]
Eric: Guys, we actually have a special segment now. Not a normal, but certainly – well, not a regular – but definitely a normal segment to do every once and a while when Pottermore.com reveals new information, we have a feature on our show called Pottermore, In Depth.
[Pottermore, In Depth intro begins]
Michael: Pottermore, In Depth.
[Sound of quill writing]
Rita: Well, Harry, the Daily Prophet readers want to hear the in-depth scoop on you.
Harry: Umm, well, I…
Rita: Absolutely brilliant – ignore the quill – tell me more, Mr. Potter.
[Pottermore, In Depth intro ends]
Eric: We got a new set of information here on the Daily Prophet as a newspaper and I think it’s pretty exciting, so I will read what Pottermore has stated:
“There is only one wizarding newspaper in Britain, discounting such small circulation publications such as The Quibbler. The Daily Prophet, whose headquarters are in Diagon Alley, is delivered by owl on a daily basis to nearly every wizarding household in Britain. Payment is effected by placing coins in the pouch tied to the paper-owl’s leg. Occasionally (when something particularly interesting or exciting happens, such as the illegal flight of a Ford Anglia the length of Britain) an Evening Prophet edition will be rushed out.”
Rosie: I love that.
Eric: Yeah, that explains…
Rosie: Just that one tiny thing that gets…
Eric: That’s explains the one time the Evening Prophet has ever appeared.
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: Maybe it appeared twice. Did it appear twice?
Rosie: It might of done, but it’s just the fact that most of the things that would cause it were things that Harry and Ron have done. It’s just brilliant.
Eric: [laughs] Yes, I agree. Continuing…
[Rosie laughs]
“The Prophet is not an entirely unbiased source of news, and sometimes displays unfortunately sensationalist tendency best epitomized by star reporter Rita Skeeter. Ostensibly an independent news source, it has more than once been influenced by the Ministry (or ruling power) of the day to hush up certain stories. A clue to its overriding motivation may be found in its name, ‘prophet’ being a homonym of ‘profit'” – P-R-O-F-I-T – “(although I was also taken with the idea of a wizarding newspaper claiming foreknowledge of news to come.)”
Oh, that is fascinating.
Rosie: [laughs] It’s great.
Eric: That’s awesome. Continuing:
“Wizardkind tends not to require alternative political flavors in its news coverage (which is not to say, however, that the Prophet does not have a political agenda). As a small, outsider and occasionally beleaguered community, wizards are, by and large, interested in the same kinds of stories: the Quidditch League results, whether anyone is in trouble for infractions of the International Statute of Secrecy, what irritating legislation the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office has come up with now, and when the next Celestina Warbeck/Weird Sisters concert will take place. It seems likely that wizards will continue to favor old-fashioned newsprint, even while the Muggle world resorts increasingly to the internet. If Muggle newspapers had moving photographs, their circulation might be similarly buoyant.”
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: Yeah, I want newspapers with moving photographs.
[Eric laughs]
Stephanie: Absolutely! [laughs]
Eric: Well, they should even do that on… even now that we have tablets, that we shouldn’t have to click a video. It should just…
Caleb: Yeah! It should be GIFs everywhere.
Eric: See, all animated GIFs everywhere!
[Caleb and Rosie laugh]
Eric: Everyday, all the time.
Rosie: That’s why there are so many wizards on Tumblr. Come on!
[Eric and Stephanie laugh]
Caleb: There you go.
Eric: Well, it’s interesting that Jo chose to close that out by saying that they would still be using print today because that’s – she really updates the series. It’s been 20 years since the books were set.
Caleb: Mhm.
Eric: So would the wizarding world have gone beyond print the way the regular world was? Well, no. She says they’re old-fashioned like that, so I actually just really like that the most, that it’s up to date, she’s like, “Nope! They’re still using newsprint. Can’t beat it.”
[Stephanie laughs]
Eric: But that concludes the Prophet summary there, so anything else really stick out about this? Or make you guys think of the publication any differently?
Caleb: Not really. Yeah, I guess the Evening Prophet was surprising. I just always took for granted that it was… I thought it was just a regular thing.
Rosie: Yeah, I am surprised that the Prophet is the only major newspaper, that there’s not more than one.
Caleb: Yeah.
Stephanie: Me too.
Eric: Well, she really downplays the large – or the size – of the wizards, again. She’s done it before, but again, in this mark where she says…
Rosie: True.
Eric: … really, they’re so small that you really can cover everything that they care about in one publication. They don’t need separate publications for Quidditch enthusiasts or anything like that because the topics get covered. So it’s really just a sign of how small the wizards are, too.
Stephanie: And it wasn’t surprising that it’s not entirely unbiased because we know that that is the case, that it’s very biased, but I think for us in the Muggle world, we’re so used to multiple sources of the same news…
Rosie: Yeah.
Stephanie: … that report it differently, that the idea that not only is the Prophet the most widely read, it’s really the only read publication except for maybe The Quibbler in some ways. That just rocks my world a little bit. [laughs] I’m so…
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: If anything, it goes to explaining Molly’s reaction to that article a bit better.
Stephanie: Yes!
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: I mean, that was Witch Weekly, not the Prophet, but to have such a monopoly on getting an opinion out there, you’re going to believe what the paper tells you because everyone’s going to believe it because that is what the paper does. It tells you information and it’s the only source that you’re going to get.
Eric: Right, that’s news. Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah. So that actually makes it more interesting once the trio are out there on the run and we see that people stop trusting the Prohpet and stop trusting anything but the Potterwatch pirate radio station. We start seeing the wizard world – wizarding world – not trusting this one source of information and looking to create their own. So perhaps in the future, even if they are sticking to newsprint, they might broaden their interests and go in to more than one paper.
Eric: Mhm.
Stephanie: Yes, I was wondering the same thing just now, Rosie.
[Rosie and Stephanie laugh]
Stephanie: Whether or not somebody had started another print media outlet in the future.
Rosie: Maybe someone like Lee Jordan. We see them…
Stephanie: Yeah!
Rosie: … go on this – on that – wizarding wireless show, so maybe they create their own broadcasting company when the Weasley twins are – well, not Weasley twins. Sorry!
Eric: They actually have a podcast, guys. They actually have a podcast that they’re on.
Rosie: Okay.
[Caleb, Eric, and Rosie laugh]
Eric: It’s our rival. We don’t speak its name.
Caleb: Never.
Rosie: [laughs] The podcast-that-must-not-be-named.
[Eric and Stephanie laugh]
Rosie: Brilliant.
Eric: Well, that concludes our Pottermore, In Depth section of this podcast.
Caleb: All right, so we’re going to wrap up with this week’s Question of the Week and this question has to do with something that comes at the end of the chapter. We didn’t talk about it that much, but there’s a moment where Fudge shows his concern or prejudice or however you want to see it about Madame Maxime and then Hagrid with everything that’s going on on the grounds because they are half-giants. Rereading this, I still was like, “Man, Fudge is such a jerk! He has no right to say that.” But then, when I was sitting here thinking about it, I was like, “Hmm, maybe he’s not so unjustified in doing this.” So here’s my question: We see a bit of prejudice on the part of Fudge with Madame Maxime and then Hagrid because of their giant heritage. We may be quick to call him out, but is he perhaps a bit justified? Giants allied with Voldemort in the first war. So doesn’t it make sense for the Minister for Magic to be cautious and wary about those with giant blood? Or does he have no right to feel so concerned and judgmental?
Rosie: Hmm. Difficult question.
Caleb: So we are anxious to read your responses.
Rosie: Thank you so much, Stephanie, for being on the show. We hope you enjoyed it. You’ve been a brilliant guest.
Stephanie: Thank you! I did. I had a fantastic time. Thank you so much for having me on.
Caleb: Definitely. And if you would like to join the show like Stephanie, we would love to have you. Just head over to alohomora.mugglenet.com and find the Be on the Show page and find out what it takes to be on the show. Just make sure that you have appropriate audio equipment for recording.
Eric: Yes, none of that inappropriate stuff will do.
Caleb: Exactly.
[Eric and Rosie laugh]
Eric: If you would like to contact us, there are several ways in which you can do so.
[Train goes by in the background]
Eric: We are approachable via train.
[Caleb and Rosie laugh]
Caleb: I was about to try to make a joke.
Eric: Right. The first of which is on Twitter. We are located at twitter.com/AlohomoraMN, or if you want to tweet at us, @ reply us at @AlohomoraMN on Twitter. We have a Facebook page, which is facebook.com/openthedumbledore. And we have our hotline, of course, which we encourage you to submit voicemails and comments through that. You can give us a call at 206-GO-ALBUS, which is 206-462-5287. Additionally, we would like if you could subscribe to us on iTunes, and you’re more than welcome to leave a review of what you thought of the show. Additionally, we have this new or recently new feature called Audioboo where you can leave us a message directly on our website at alohomora.mugglenet.com. And it could be played on the show, like we did today. It is free – all you need is a microphone, which is part of that appropriate audio equipment that we were talking about before.
Rosie: And whilst you’re using your appropriate audio equipment, you can also be wearing the appropriate clothes!
Eric: Yay! [laughs]
Rosie: [laughs] By visiting our store and buying all of the appropriate T-shirts and possibly inappropriate ones too, if Noah gets them with his slogans on them.
[Caleb and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: They are short- and now long-sleeved. You can also get tote bags, sweatshirts, flip flops, water bottles, travel mugs, and many, many more. We have over 80 products to choose from, and we also have some free ringtones of the podcast’s theme tune on our site, so go and check those out too.
Caleb: Also make sure to check out our smartphone app, which is available seemingly worldwide, and prices vary depending on location. We have things like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and more, so check that out. And if you need to know how, go to the Alohomora! home page and you’ll find a link about downloading the smartphone app.
[Show music begins]
Caleb: And that’s going to do it for this episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.
Eric: I’m Eric Scull.
Rosie: And I’m Rosie Morris. Thank you for listening to Episode 67 of Alohomora!
Caleb: Open the Dumbledore!
[Show music continues]
[Train goes by in the background]
Rosie: How do you live with those trains going past all the time?
Stephanie: I was thinking the same thing.
[Rosie laughs]
Eric: What? What was the question?
Rosie: How can you survive with all those trains going past all the time? It’d drive me mad.
Eric: I just stay off the tracks.
[Everyone laughs]
Stephanie: Well done.
