Transcript – Episode 4
[Show music begins]
Noah Fried: This is Episode 4 of Alohomora!, for June 3rd, 2012.
[Show music continues]
Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.
Caleb Graves: I’m Caleb Graves.
Rosie Morris: I’m Rosie Morris.
Noah: And I’m Noah Fried. Hey guys! This episode, we’re going to actually have only staff members of the show on the site. We’ll have fans on next week. We’re thinking every fourth show or so, it’s going to be all staff because otherwise we wouldn’t have a time to just talk all four of us, right?
Rosie: Right.
Kat: Sounds good.
Rosie: So, we’re going to do a quick recap of the comments from last week’s episode. So, we were talking about ghosts, and the Grey Lady in particular. So, this comment is from StoneShield128 from our main site, and it says that last week we theorized that the ghost in tights was the Grey Lady. They say that they think it’s been confirmed by J.K.R. that the Grey Lady is in the Mirror of Erised room when he and Ron go to look for the Mirror of Erised that night. In the book it says, “They passed the ghost of a tall witch gliding in the opposite direction.” Do you guys think that could be her?
Caleb: Yup. I saw this comment on the site and I think I responded. So, that was really good information. I never had caught that. So, definitely if she confirmed it, obviously that’s her, so that’s good. But I still would like to think that the ghost in tights is the Grey Lady. I hope it is.
Kat: It might be.
Rosie: She could be both of them.
Caleb: [laughs] Yeah.
Kat: Could be.
Rosie: But if it was her in the Mirror of Erised room, that means that do you think ghosts can see themselves in the Mirror of Erised? And what do you think the Grey Lady would have seen?
Noah: Well, we know that’s Helena. She probably – maybe she saw herself in her past beauty.
Kat: Or with the Bloody Baron.
Noah: Ooh. Yeah, possibly.
Kat: Happy with the Bloody Baron.
Rosie: There’s a whole story to be told there. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, it is. [laughs]
Noah: But I wonder if it would work on ghosts anyway. Are they corporeal enough to – would the mirror still have an effect?
Kat: I don’t know. Good comment either way.
Rosie: Definitely. So, another comment from last week from our forums was by Ali Wood. It says:
“I have several thought on Filch. Maybe he ended up there like Petunia wanted to be, by begging Dumbledore, and because of his wizard family was allowed? Or is his story more like Hagrid’s? Did his parents perhaps try to force him to be magical, and he failed, so Dumbledore took pity on him? Could he be hoping magic would rub off on him if he’s constantly around it? Or did he just never fit in the Muggle world?”
Caleb: Good comment. Yeah, I don’t think he really belongs anywhere. I think – I would lean more towards his story being very much like Petunia’s, where his family is magical and he just wanted to be a part of it so badly, and Dumbledore for some reason accepted him in.
Noah: I’m sure that’s the case.
Kat: That sounds like Hagrid to me. He just wants to be a part of the wizarding world so bad he doesn’t care what he’s doing as long as he’s there.
Noah: And it kind of makes sense that he thought some of it might rub off on him, considering he wanted to learn about all the Kwikspells.
Kat: Right.
Caleb: Mhm.
Rosie: Sure.
Noah: At least he has a good life with Mrs. Norris there.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: [laughs] Definitely.
Caleb: That’s true.
Kat: Well, Snodge on the forums says:
“I may be missing something here, but I thought it was obvious why Filch was at Hogwarts: Madam Pomfrey!”
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Two estranged characters who – I don’t even think they have a scene together.
Caleb: No, I always thought that there was a thing between Filch and the librarian, Irma Pince.
Noah: [laughs] Really?
Caleb: I thought that was what was happening.
Kat: Oh, that makes sense. I’m sure there are fan fictions about both.
Noah: [laughs] Are there?
Kat: [laughs] Yeah.
Noah: Just because they’re equally foul.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: I think it’s worth mentioning Ali Wood posted a great essay on the site as well. So, we have some frequent commenters who are doing tons of stuff on the site. Thank you very much. And appropriately, our next comment from SnapeScape – who’s been commenting on a lot of shows. It’s great.
“At one point in the podcast, the subject was brought up of evil characters often being depicted as ugly in their description. The Dursleys are not a very good looking lot, Crabbe and Goyle are much the same in that manner, as is Snape who is hook-nosed and greasy-haired (although, it turns out he wasn’t that evil in the end). I think, like the cartoonization of the Dursleys discussed in another thread, this is a way of Jo to make it plain who is good and who is bad. In the earlier books, since the readers are younger and less mature, there is just black and white. As the series progresses, shades of gray appear. And in ‘HBP’, we see that bad characters aren’t always ugly as Tom Riddle is a handsome looking young man with lots of charm. Generally speaking though, I think that ugliness is often associated with the antagonist, it’s just a traditional thing.”
Yeah, this comes in response to our discussions we’ve been having about – the Dursleys are often shown as kind of cartoonish in that way, sort of ugly. Snape as well seems kind of dark and unfriendly just based on his appearance. You don’t want to spend any time with him. So, this was in – you’ve gone over this a lot. It’s a narrative strategy on the part of Jo, making them instantly ugly and dark so that we don’t want to go towards them.
Kat: And yeah, it’s true in a lot of books, that the antagonists are just ugly.
Noah: Yeah, and it continues. We mentioned last podcast with the Slytherins. The Slytherins also had this sort of inherent darkness with them or something. They just don’t seem very friendly.
Rosie: I like the fact that they pointed out that Tom Riddle was a handsome evil person though, because I think it’s the ones that are secretly evil that don’t appear evil that are most dangerous.
Caleb: Absolutely.
Kat: That’s very true.
Noah: Like me.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Yes, you’re so evil.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Evil genius.
Noah: Hufflepuff.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Next comment?
Rosie: So, this one is from the forums as well and it’s from SilverDoe25, and it’s on Peeves.
“I love your theory, and it made me spawn another. First off, according to Jo herself, ‘Peeves isn’t a ghost; he was never a living person.’ How about if the original strife between the founders caused the creation of Peeves? After all, they created Hogwarts, but then relations went awry.”
Caleb: I like that a lot.
Noah: Yeah.
Caleb: That’s really interesting.
Kat: Yeah, I like that. I mean, I liked your theory too, Rosie, but this one seems to make more sense since Jo has said that Peeves came with the building.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: And he’s been there as long as Hogwarts has been around.
Noah: That would make a lot of sense, but then why does he have this fear of the Bloody Baron directly?
Kat: That’s true as well.
Caleb: Hmm.
Rosie: We just need to know more!
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Caleb: Yup.
Kat: Well, now that the encyclopedia is no firm plans, we may never know.
Caleb: It may come out in Pottermore.
Rosie: Yeah, I’m not too sorry about no, like, physical encyclopedia because I think that’s what Pottermore is, really. It’s just there to be kind of an interactive encyclopedia.
Noah: Yeah, I’m sure that’s true. And she wants to – she obviously wants fans to go over there. I think all that extra, additional content will be put in Pottermore as it comes out.
Kat: Let’s hope.
Noah: Which is good.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: I’m a little greedy, though. I wanted both. I want it online, but I also want a physical copy that I can just put under my pillow at night or something.
Kat: I agree. I’m with you on that one.
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: Hey, Pottermore could be released in a book set.
Caleb: Maybe.
Kat: That’s true.
Caleb: That would be cool.
Kat: And there’s actually a great comment on the forums concerning Pottermore. It’s by I’ll be in the library. Here, she says:
“I was recently unlocking things in the library on Pottermore and thought it was interesting that Jo herself seemed to nod at the ethical dilemma of animal cruelty in relation to transfiguration. ‘A Beginner’s Guide to Transfiguration’ says: ‘Incomplete Transfigurations are difficult to put right, but you must attempt to do so. Leaving the head of a rabbit on a footstool is irresponsible and dangerous. Say ‘Reparifarge!’…'”
Am I saying that right?
Caleb: Reparifarge, maybe?
Kat: Reparifarge? Okay.
“‘…and the object or creature should return to its natural state. Larger creatures are difficult to Transfigure except by skilled and powerful wizards. Know your limits.'”
He or she continues:
“It seems she is aware that leaving a transfigured creature deformed or quasi-formed would be a poor use of magic, therefore implying that there is an expected level of maturity and the necessity of a moral compass when practicing magic.”
Noah: So, this is quite frightening. Now we know for sure that when you’re transfiguring something, an inanimate object into an animal or vice versa, you are creating something with life that could be in a potentially tortured state if it’s in between those two different realms. So damn, that is pretty problematic, wouldn’t you say?
Kat: [laughs] Yeah, absolutely.
Rosie: Definitely.
Caleb: Yeah. I really like the next – another comment that we had on the forums that came from MeJustMe on the same topic. It says:
“I always assumed transfiguration was always involving the molecules and atoms and such. So, you’d be literally manipulating the atoms of a thing into another. It’s using what is already there. So, I think the desk would be completely a pig and I would eat it. I always assumed that there is a ‘science’ to magic that they get taught.”
And I really like this because – I studied science, so this makes a lot of sense and I like the fact that science and magic can sort of come together. But still, I’m a little concerned, MeJustMe, that you would think about eating the pig. I’m still…
Noah: Are you going to eat that pig, Caleb? [laughs]
Caleb: No, I’m…
Kat: I wouldn’t either.
Caleb: I’m sticking to my guns. I’m not eating that pig that came from a desk.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: That pig that is potentially essential desk inside. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: But I mean, does that go against, like, the elemental laws of transfiguration? Because the only one we ever learn about is that you can’t summon food. Or you can’t make food.
Caleb: Yeah, Gamp’s law. So…
Noah: But that could be interpreted as you can’t maybe pop food into existence, but maybe you can transfigure something else into food.
Caleb: Hmm. I would still argue you’re bringing food into existence, because the wood from the desk cannot be, in theory, manipulated into wood.
Noah: Okay, so what about…
Caleb: I mean, wood cannot be manipulated into food.
Noah: I just had a great thought. What if you can eat the pig technically, but it provides no nutrients?
Rosie: Yeah, if it’s got the nutritional value of the desk.
Noah: Yes!
Caleb: Which – okay.
Rosie: So you couldn’t make a salad out of a stone, because it would just have the nutritional values of a stone.
Noah: But you could still…
Caleb: So it could be, like, artificially flavored to taste like a pig…
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: …but you don’t get any…
Noah: But it does nothing for you.
Caleb: You don’t get any protein from the meat, okay? I buy that.
Noah: [laughs] Yes.
Kat: So it’s like junk food.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: It’s just for pleasure eating. So, if you’re just – if there’s a fat wizard one day who just wants to [laughs] transfigure his whole house into various food…
Caleb: So yeah, maybe if Zonko’s needed a new item, they could have trick candies that are actually made from wood.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: That sounds more like a Weasley product.
Caleb: That’s fair.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: But I think that – but that makes sense because it follows with the laws and then it makes – it’s still a pig in a way, but it’s not. It’s an illusion but to the highest quality because you can still eat it.
Kat: Right. [laughs] So, there’s this cool comment from the forums from Phoenix. Noah, do you want to read that?
Noah: Yeah.
“It would suggest that the transformed thing is always equal to the thing into which it is transformed in terms of mass (just in the number of atoms, which doesn’t equal mass).”
This is in terms to the talk they were having before.
“This more or less seems to be the case in the books, since they tend to transform large objects into large ones and small objects into small ones. But what about conjuring and vanishing spells? Following your theory, I suppose that ‘vanishing spell’ could only be a colloquial term, while what you really do is transform the atoms of an object into oxygen and nitrogen, in other words: into air. But if you did that, could you breathe them in? And if so, then why can’t you eat the pig?”
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Noah: All right, so that’s kind of – that’s a big comment, but I’m thinking that they’re saying that the vanishing spell is also transforming the atoms into something that is invisible like a gas and then you could potentially bring it in – breathe it in. That’s interesting.
Caleb: Yeah. So, I actually wrote an essay sort of on this once when prompted about what exactly happens with vanishing as far as atoms and molecules go.
Noah: Cool.
Caleb: I’ll have to dig that essay up. It’s been, like, a year and a half since I wrote it but I’ll have to dig that up.
Kat: I think it’s fascinating. I had never thought that a vanishing spell was – I mean, it’s essentially a form of transfiguration – I mean, that’s what the comment is saying – but I had never thought of it that way before, that you are transforming it into invisible objects or atoms. I had never thought of that, I thought that was fantastic.
Noah: I always considered it to be, when you’re vanishing it, you’re really sending it to another plane or realm. And maybe there is a realm, again, parallels to the wizarding world, where all vanished objects go. Or maybe they are erased from existence completely, but that’s troubling. But yeah, just an interesting comment from Phoenix, because it would make sense for the transfiguration debate, because that would make sense where all those objects go.
Kat: And there was a comment on the forums, kind of in rebuttal to this, by Mallikas. If I said that wrong, I apologize.
Noah: [whispers] Mallikas!
Kat: [laughs] He or she says:
“But this seems to suggest that you can literally change the elements into something else. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that seems to go against the very laws of nature. I mean, from what little I’ve learnt from 10th grade science, you can’t create elements. You can cause reactions by combining different elements, which might result in a whole different element, but you can’t just create oxygen atoms, for example. And, again, in order to cause an element to ‘change’ there has to be a catalyst, something that causes a chemical reaction. Does this mean that magic is, in scientific terms, simply a very powerful and special type of catalyst? Are all spells just scientifically justifiable, chemical reactions?”
Caleb: [laughs] I love this. So, I teach 10th grade science right now, so this is really – I’m glad that you know your stuff, Mallikas.
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: But I think – if you stick with your studying chemistry, you’ll know about nuclear reactions, where you actually can change the elements. So, I think that somehow magic is able to go to this higher order, where they can make more powerful reactions happen, and you’re not just sticking with manipulating what you have but actually creating new things, because I think that is sort of what has to happen here, more than just the Muggle basis of chemical reactions. I’m going to stop before I get too much…
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: No, but it makes sense.
Caleb: …nerd speak in science.
Noah: It seems that you can transfigure something into anything else, right? There is potentially no limit.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: It’s interesting to think of in terms of general magic as well as transfiguration though, like the spell Aguamenti where it creates a stream of water. Where is that water coming from? Is it being summoned from somewhere? Is it being created out of the air? Where is it coming from?
Kat: Yeah, I would say it’s being pulled out of the air, but…
Caleb: Yeah, because I would be willing to bet that another one of Gamp’s Laws would be that you wouldn’t be able to create something like water from nothing. So, I bet you’re manipulating the moisture in the air or something like that.
Noah: Yeah, and you use the language of magic to conjure that, or to access those particles. So, really all of magic is just sort of a way of influencing the atoms around in a certain way.
Kat: Well, I mean, that makes sense because even Hogwarts is based on the earth, air, water, and fire.
Noah: Wow.
Kat: So, I guess that makes sense.
Rosie: So, perhaps there’s no magic in Pigfarts.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: No, special moon magic.
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: Moon magic, definitely. [laughs]
Kat: Cool. Well, great comments, guys. Definitely keep them coming on the forums or on the main site, at Alohomora.MuggleNet.com.
Noah: Yeah. And if you want to write up Gamp’s Laws for us, just post them at Alohomora! and we’ll analyze that. I want a fan to send in the best set of laws. We can figure this out, guys.
Caleb: We can.
Kat: How many did Hermione tell us there are? Three? Four?
Caleb: I want to say there’s five.
Kat: Five.
Caleb: Let me look it up.
Kat: Okay. The encyclopedia doesn’t know the answer? Caleb.
Caleb: I know, but I don’t – I want to say there’s five but I want to double check.
Kat: Okay.
Caleb: “…which has five Principal Exceptions, of which food is one.” So yeah, there are five. We only know about one, about food.
Kat: Okay, so theorize, guys. Come up with the other four. Let’s do it.
Noah: And we’ll read them on the show.
Kat: That’s right.
Noah: Okay, so last week we had the special Noah’s Close Read section in which I sang the Sorting Hat song, and we looked at the text of the song, and we tried to take it and analyze what Sorting is all about, and what we could read into the houses and what the hat was trying to tell us. And here’s a comment from Ali Wood again. She’s commenting everywhere.
“I believe Pettigrew does belong in Slytherin. He’s very crafty, sneaky, and conniving. He only looks out for himself as well (Sirius or Lupin says he wouldn’t go back to Voldemort or kill Harry until he was sure it would benefit him). He would be a negative interpretation of Slytherin values, but he has the qualifications nonetheless.”
That’s not exactly tied into that.
Kat: We settled on Hufflepuff for him, right? For Pettigrew?
Caleb: I think that’s what most of us said.
Noah: For Pettigrew, yeah. Just because he was able to wait it out as a rat. That takes a lot of patience and hard work, believe it or not.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: Mhm.
Caleb: But I buy his comment as well.
Kat: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. I wonder if – he probably wasn’t a Hatstall. He’s probably not deep enough for a Hatstall.
Caleb: Yeah, probably not.
Kat: But he still didn’t belong in Gryffindor. I think that was our point, right?
Caleb: Yup.
Kat: Yeah, okay. [laughs]
Noah: And then there’s the question of choice or abilities. What really comes to front when someone is getting sorted? And it so happened that I asked the Posed Question of the Week last week, and here it is:
“When you get sorted, how much weight does your choice have in the matter? Is it end all, be all, or is it based on some objective traits that you have? And if it is, does that mean some people are essentially more intelligent than others? Is Jo making some commentary about intelligence existing in some perfect objective form? Is it based on where you want to be, or on something that you essentially have (when you’re getting sorted)?”
And we got a lot of great comments on this on Facebook, Twitter…
Kat: A lot of comments.
Noah: Everywhere. But because we want to drive you guys there, we’re just going to read mostly comments that we got from the main page of Alohomora! So, this one is from nana:
“I think the decision is ultimately the Hat’s, as we see with Neville who prefers the less competitive Hufflepuff. The hat knows that Neville needs to be around courage in order for his own to develop. His natural abilities have been repressed by his grandmother who is unaware that her grief about her son has spilled over into the way she treats her grandson. The hat overrules Neville’s wishes seeing that Neville will develop best in Gryffindor surrounded by strong peers. Hermione, on the other hand, makes a comment on the train that she hopes she’s in Gryffindor because she’d been asking around and reading, and she says, ‘It sounds by far the best.’ So, she prefers a house, and the hat judges correctly that she has qualities that are superior to her intelligence. In Harry’s case, he already feels prejudiced against Slytherin because of what Ron has told him, and because he has met Malfoy and his toadies. He thinks they seem an unpleasant lot. The hat finds sorting Harry difficult but, as Harry later tells little Albus, it took Harry’s choice into account. One of the goals of school is to help children develop the ability to make choices for themselves and Harry’s early example of this convinces the hat to consider his wishes.”
That’s a big comment. But what do you guys think? Just throw it to you. It seems that choice is pretty big. But if the hat feels it very strongly, they might just put that student in a certain house based on what he thinks – he or she thinks, the Hat.
Kat: I mean, yeah, I actually completely agree with this comment. I think, for myself, I don’t have a lot of confidence in my intelligence, at least – it’s funny, not until I was sorted in Ravenclaw did I have confidence in it. But I feel like, myself, as an eleven-year-old going to Hogwarts, I would want to be in Hufflepuff because that was the house I’ve always kind of seen myself in. And I wasn’t a Hatstall, but I could see myself kind of fighting internally with the Hat. So, I agree with this.
Noah: Yeah.
Caleb: Yup. I think – there’s another really great comment from the main site that kind of plays on the same thing, from RyanCaps, which says:
“I think it’s pretty evident by some of the people in the series that it’s totally your choice. Peter Pettigrew, Snape, and Zacharias Smith all don’t really belong in their respective houses – Peter not being brave at all, Snape being immensely brave, and Zacharias being totally arrogant. We know Snape wanted to be placed in Slytherin, and I guess we can infer the other two chose their houses as well. I think the Sorting Hat knows which house you should be in, but you ultimately are able to choose. And the people who don’t question the hat or don’t have a preference for any house take up their house qualities and try to act more like the traits they feel they should represent.”
Noah: Yeah. Do we know whether or not Neville agreed with the hat in the end, that he should go to Gryffindor? Because then it would mean that the hat kind of had to badger him a little bit until the truth came out or until Neville could make that choice.
Kat: Well, I mean, it’s not like Neville can say no. If the hat put you in Gryffindor, that’s where you are.
Noah: No, but there’s probably an internal discussion inside his head.
Kat: Well, I mean, we know that there is, but what I’m saying is the hat has the final choice regardless of what the wearer wants.
Noah: Well, what if Neville had said no towards the end? “No, I definitely want Hufflepuff.”
Kat: Was he going to get up and walk away?
Caleb: Well, I think if he would have said that in the end, then the hat would have given him Hufflepuff if he would have been defiant about it, but he wasn’t.
Noah: That’s what I’m saying, yeah.
Kat: I don’t think so. I think that the hat does what it wants.
Rosie: But EbonyMoonpool from Twitter reminds us of one of the great Dumbledore quotes:
“It is our choices, Harry, not our abilities that show who we really are.”
So essentially, if we are trying to show who we are through our house, then our choice has to be important when it comes to that.
Noah: But Rosie and EbonyMoonpool, what if our natural abilities condition us to make certain choices?
Rosie: Then perhaps the hat can guide us to make a better choice. I think it would still allow us to make the final decision.
Caleb: Hmm, then we get some really big questions about how much influence does the hat have/shouldn’t have.
Kat: Right, so I’m wondering then if we’re saying that it’s the choices – so if Neville really, really, really wanted to be in Hufflepuff, should he have been?
Noah: Well, I think if he had that much determination, he would have really been a Gryffindor. [laughs] But…
Rosie: To back up this point, there’s a really great comment from MarauderRiver14231, from the main site, that says:
“There must be some kind of consideration about where the person wants to go. If you think about it, these are a bunch of eleven-year-olds who are going to a boarding school for the first time. I believe that the Sorting Hat takes their need for comfort and happiness into account when deciding to put someone into a house. I think it would know if someone was going to be completely miserable in the house.”
So, if you have a choice that you are so adamant that you need to be in this house, and you would be miserable if you were anywhere else, then the Sorting Hat would…
Noah: Would know that.
Rosie: …make you feel better about it. Yeah.
Noah: Yeah. You wouldn’t even have to say anything.
Caleb: I feel this comment speaks to a lot of what you were talking about earlier, Kat. Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: About being eleven and thinking you go somewhere. But I don’t know.
Kat: Yeah, no, I agree. But I still don’t think that – I don’t think the Sorting Hat would bend its decision. We don’t see it happen for anybody.
Noah: For Harry…
Kat: Except Harry, yeah.
Noah: So, we can say that happens for everyone just because we haven’t gotten into everybody else’s mind.
Kat: But the only reason it happens for Harry is because that part of Voldemort is in him. That truly is part of him, that’s part of his ability, that’s part of his personality.
Noah: Oh, I always disagreed with that. I thought that he was almost placed in Slytherin because Harry was genuinely – had a little bit of Slytherin in him and not just speaking literally of Voldemort. I think Harry’s drive for ambition and stuff is totally true, and also to have the very best of friends. I think the fandom is kind of split on that point. My opinion personally is that Harry is – he could have been in Slytherin for real.
Kat: Okay, well LumisKnight3 from the main site I would say probably agrees with you on that. He or she says:
“One thing I think is really important when considering whether or not our choice is taken into account is just how dominate some personalities out there can be. For instance, when Draco goes to get sorted, the hat barely touches his head before yelling out a definitive ‘Slytherin!’ This suggests that Draco, who we already know has a preference for Slytherin anyway, has such a strong match for this house that the hat barely needs to read his thoughts and personality before placing him there. This is interesting compared to those who, like McGonagall, are Hatstalls and require more time to figure out. Does this mean that some people have black and white personalities like Draco does while others are in a gray area like Harry? And additionally, does it mean that the hat really does see every aspect of us in the second it takes to touch our head, or was Draco’s personality really just that strong?”
Caleb: Yeah, that’s definitely an interesting question, the fact that the Sorting Hat sorted Draco so quickly. But I think, by the end of the series, Draco is anything but black and white.
Noah: That’s right.
Caleb: I think the whole Malfoy family – they are some of my favorite characters because they evolve as these very gray characters and not black and white. So…
Rosie: Yeah, I agree.
Kat: But when he’s eleven, I think he’s definitely black and white.
Caleb: Absolutely, yeah.
Noah: And if we want to go the choice route, he really wanted Slytherin.
Caleb: Definitely.
Noah: Like, he was probably screaming “Slytherin” in his head. So, maybe the abilities didn’t even – the Sorting Hat didn’t even have time to consider abilities, because he just heard “Slytherin” really loud and that was enough.
Kat: Well, and I mean, I think Draco embodies the Slytherin traits anyway.
Noah: Oh, yeah.
Kat: Regardless of whether he’s black or white or, in the end, gray.
Noah: That’s right, and he’s proud of that house throughout.
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: Which is – yeah. And that ends our great discussion of the Sorting Hat and all of our fan comments this week. But keep them coming. We love to read them, and whatever you post, it could be on the next show.
Kat: So we’re going to jump right into this week’s discussion. We’re going to be discussing Chapters 9 and 10 of Philosopher’s Stone: “The Midnight Duel” and “Halloween”.
[Noah does a spooky laugh]
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: So, starting off, we’re looking at Chapter 9: “The Midnight Duel”. The chapter starts off very interesting, mentioning Draco – Harry’s talking about him – and Draco has immediately replaced Dudley as Harry’s main antagonist. I thought this was very clear. Jo made this very firm in the beginning of the chapter that he is Harry’s enemy, which I think plays off obviously through this chapter a lot that we’ll be jumping into. The first thing though that I took notice of in this chapter was Neville receiving his Remembrall from his gran. And I’m thinking in the beginning, what a cool thing, you know? It lets you know that you forget things, it blows this red smoke. But then I thought, isn’t there kind of this inherent design flaw with this object? Something that would tell me, “Hey, you forgot something,” would never be really that useful if it didn’t tell you what exactly that thing is. What do we think?
Rosie: Yeah, I think it’d be really just annoying, because you’d just constantly know that you’d forgotten something and you’d never be able to remember what that thing was.
[Noah laughs]
Rosie: It’s like, taunting you slightly. [laughs]
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: If it could be more like a Magic 8 Ball where there is, like, a little thing floating inside that said “Your book” or “Your wand” or whatever, that would be much more helpful.
Caleb: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I use my iPhone all the time to remind me of stuff because I, like Neville, would forget everything, but I have to have it tell me what I’m forgetting or else it would just drive me insane.
Kat: Yeah. It seems kind of pointless, in a way, to have a Remembrall.
Noah: Not for the plot.
Kat: [laughs] Well, no, that’s true.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: But why couldn’t it have been, I don’t know, anything else but a Remembrall? Why is that something she felt she needed to create?
Noah: I think it just fits into Neville’s character.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: It’s another funny little motif in the plot of him being completely – having all of these terrible things happening to him. Not so bad, but just – he’s locked out of his dormitory, the whole incident at the pitch which we’re going to get into. So, this completely fits in and a great movie scene.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: Well, that is true. [laughs]
Rosie: It fits in with his family as well. I mean, his gran and – was it his great uncle that threw him out of a window?
Caleb: Yup.
Rosie: It’s all that kind of – they’re always trying to make him better than he is, and they won’t actually let him have his own chance to shine.
Noah: I have a rather morbid connection, if you guys are willing.
Caleb: Okay.
Rosie: [laughs] Go ahead.
Noah: The fact that his parents are demented and they can’t remember anything.
Kat: Aww.
Caleb: Aww.
Kat: Aww, that is…
Noah: That is sad.
Caleb: That’s really tragic.
Kat: Poor Neville.
Noah: So maybe Gran just wants him to test his memory.
Caleb: Aww. And sadly, the tragedy continues for Neville in this chapter.
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Because pretty soon, the Gryffindor students find out they are going to be going to their first flying lessons, which Harry is really excited about, except for the fact that they have to take flying lessons with the Slytherins, of course. And quickly into this – well, first in the flying lessons, Harry is stunned when the broom pops up to his hand immediately and it doesn’t really work out so much for Hermione. But the big thing here is that Neville gets anxious, takes off, and eventually breaks his wrist because he’s a klutz. So, one of the interesting things that I definitely did not catch the first time I read it, but did this time, is when Malfoy is making fun of Neville, it’s actually Parvati that is the first one to scream out to Neville’s defense. I think she said, “Shut up, Malfoy!” And I was wondering, is this really the only time we see Parvati stand out as a Gryffindor? It makes me wish we could have seen more from Parvati throughout the series, instead of just glimpses through Dumbledore’s Army meetings.
Kat: Yeah, I think maybe she has twelve lines in the whole series, so…
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: She’s a strong character, though. I mean, we’ll remember this and then when she comes up, we’ll just – we’ll know there’s another character here that Jo was thinking to develop on the side. It’s possible we could get some backstory on the twins in Pottermore.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: She actually stands up for Harry as well when McGonagall returns and says, “How dare you – might have broken your neck.” It then says, “‘It wasn’t his fault, Professor -‘ ‘Be quiet, Miss Patil.'”
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: So, it’s obviously Parvati that stood up again, then.
Kat: Right…
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: …because her sister is not in Gryffindor, right?
Caleb: Yeah, that’s what – I want to hear so much more about those two, what sets them apart. They’re identical twins, but they’re obviously very different and no one ever tells us.
Noah: And no one ever thinks about them.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Man.
Caleb: But as the scene continues, Hermione – so Harry tries to take off after Malfoy, because he has taken the Remembrall, and Hermione tries to stop Harry from going after him, and not because it’s dangerous, but because it’s against Hooch’s instructions to stay on the ground, and that it might get them into trouble. Do we think this is a bit anti-Gryffindor from Hermione to warn him not against the danger of it, but against the rules?
Noah: I just – I want to comment that I think in ways, it’s more brave to not actually do anything, to kind of take the moral high road, in a sense, and just kind of – because it’s kind of easy to just go up and antagonize right back, but it’s kind of hard to sometimes step up and be like, “Okay, wait a second,” take a step back, and – maybe it’s the Hufflepuff in me speaking here, but I’m not really going to engage it, it’s not a big deal, and it’s not right in sort of a big justice sense.
Kat: No, I think this is Hermione’s Ravenclaw nature coming out of her, because she’s very into following the teacher’s rules. And I think that this is just, like I said, her eagle coming out.
Caleb: Yeah, I agree. I think – we’ll get to this a little bit later, but I think these two chapters actually set up a real good glimpse of both sides of Hermione.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: So…
Kat: I agree.
Caleb: So, Harry ignores Hermione’s rules – or warnings – and takes off. And this is such a great scene. We know that Harry will use this scene later in Prisoner of Azkaban for something that we’ll get to then. But he has such joy taking off on the broom. And do we think it’s more the rush of the wind and just being in that moment? Or the feeling that he’s really good at something that he did not need to be taught, as he mentions? And is this the first time that Harry really thinks he’s good at something?
Kat: Yeah, I definitely think it is. I mean, the Dursleys told him he was trash, good-for-nothing, for so long that Harry thought when he got to Hogwarts that he’d be miles and miles and miles behind everybody. So, I think this is a really positive experience for him. It’s about time he felt good about himself.
Noah: Yeah. And as we know, James was a – he was a Chaser? Is that…
Kat: Well…
Noah: Or was he a Beater?
Kat: I think he was a Seeker.
Noah: No, no, that was the movie. James was actually a Beater, I believe, right?
Caleb: He’s definitely not a Beater.
Kat: No, he’s not a Beater.
Rosie: He’s possibly a Chaser.
Caleb: He’s a Chaser.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: He’s a Chaser, yeah.
Noah: He was a Chaser. So, I think – there’s also, in the scene, the fact that it’s in his blood a bit, and that gets mentioned later. So, he feels like he can naturally do this just as his father could. So, maybe this is a slight foreshadowing, and it’s also just Harry’s natural sense that he can do this, and maybe a little bit of learned memory from his parents, or maybe even riding a broomstick when he was one. But it feels right.
Rosie: Yeah, I always find that really interesting, in terms of the photograph that we find later on in Grimmauld Place where we see baby Harry on a baby broom, riding around.
Kat: Oh, how fun would that be, just menacing the cat?
Noah: Yeah.
[Caleb and Rosie laugh]
Kat: A little one-year-old on a broomstick, come on.
Caleb: Oh my gosh, baby fever.
Rosie: But isn’t that lovely, though? This is the one thing that his parents have actually taught him and that he still remembers, even though he doesn’t actually remember them teaching him.
Kat: Very instinctual.
Rosie: It’s natural because it’s…
Noah: That’s right. So, this is actually not his first time on a broom.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s true.
Kat: Oh, that’s true.
Noah: Which is amazing. Yeah.
Caleb: First time I’ve thought about it, yeah.
Noah: Okay, so then McGonagall finds Harry flying. He’s caught the Remembrall, and then she’s bringing him to Wood. And then Harry thinks in his head, “‘Wood?’ thought Harry, bewildered. ‘Was Wood a cane she was going to use on him?'”
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: And when I was first read this, I was like, “Oh no! He’s in trouble!” But now, I’m like, “Oh my gosh! No psychological damage, my ass.” [laughs] The Dursleys…
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: They’ve instilled some fear in him.
Kat: Do you think they used to beat him?
Caleb: No.
Noah: I bet they did.
Caleb: I don’t think so.
Rosie: Wasn’t it threatened at the school that he was meant to be going to?
Caleb: Yes.
Rosie: Or they made it up, didn’t they? When he sees Aunt Marge next year and they say, “Do they use the cane, boy?” and he has to say, “Oh yes, they use it a lot.”
Caleb: Yeah, when they tell him that he’s going to St. Brutus’s or whatever.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: Are you going to tell me that the Dursleys have never smacked Harry?
Caleb: I don’t think so.
Rosie: I don’t think they would. They’d be too afraid.
Caleb: I don’t think they would know how to. They certainly don’t hit Dudley, so I don’t think they would know how to discipline a child that way.
Kat: But they hate Harry. I mean, I think…
Noah: They – yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, but I still don’t see them hitting him or something.
Kat: Well, they let Dudley hit him with his Smeltings stick.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s true.
Noah: And look at this…
Caleb: But I still don’t…
Noah: Look at this line. Look at the casualness of this line, “Was Wood a cane she was going to use on him?” So he’s familiar with the practice of beating.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: By – as a disciplinary action.
Caleb: That’s true. Hmm.
Rosie: I don’t think he’s actually ever had a cane used on him, though. I think his idea – he’s used to the threat, not the actual punishment.
Noah: Well, I mean, we could…
Kat: Did…
Noah: Yeah?
Kat: Did Harry go to primary school? Was that ever said?
Rosie: Yeah, because that’s where he ended up on the roof, didn’t he?
Noah: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: That’s right. So, I wonder if that’s where he got beaten.
Caleb: I wouldn’t be surprised, yeah. Or at least, if he didn’t…
Rosie: Technically, it’s illegal. They wouldn’t be able to do that in England. [laughs]
Kat: Oh.
Caleb: Yeah. Or maybe if it didn’t happen to him, he knew of people it did happen to, so that’s how he’s familiar with it.
Kat: Okay.
Caleb: I just don’t think the Dursleys did it. I mean, I can’t imagine…
Noah: I wouldn’t put it past them.
Kat: I would say probably not Aunt Petunia but I can see Vernon. Easy.
Caleb: Hmm. Maybe so.
Noah: Anyway, beatings aside…
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Caleb: Yeah. So, McGonagall comes back after Harry has made this amazing dive and grab of the Remembrall. And she sees Harry fly, and as Noah has already mentioned, she takes him to Wood. We think that he is getting punished at first, but really we find out Wood is this Keeper for the Quidditch team. They go into this room – and I found this part really interesting. She shouts for Peeves to get out of this classroom, and even though Peeves mutters some things as he goes, he immediately leaves. He listens to McGonagall immediately. So, it got me thinking that maybe he listens to someone other than the Bloody Baron. I mean, the Bloody Baron may be the one that scares him the most, but maybe he listens to some professors like McGonagall, other than – more than others. Perhaps, say, Quirrell.
Kat: I mean, I think McGonagall is pretty badass. So, if you – if she walks into a room and tells you to do something, you do it. I don’t think it matters who you are.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: She can probably also transfigure Peeves into a…
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: Into a bowling ball or something.
Kat: Into a desk, and then into a pig?
Noah: Into a desk and then a pig.
Rosie: How do you transfigure ghosts? Ghosts are incorporeal.
Kat: Well, he’s not a ghost.
Rosie: There’s nothing to transfigure.
Kat: He’s not a ghost.
Noah: He’s a poltergeist.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: Which means he’s even less of a form, really.
[Noah laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Well, he’s solid, so…
Caleb: I don’t see him becoming bacon on my plate.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Noah: McGonagall is so good, she can transform a non-ghost.
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: Yeah. Maybe McGonagall can go above Gamp’s Law. Maybe she just found a way.
Kat: Maybe she wrote the laws.
Noah: She can transfigure everything into pigs and then eat them.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: [laughs] Oh gosh. Okay.
[Noah laughs]
Caleb: Sister’s got to eat, so…
Kat: That’s right.
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: But this moment where McGonagall has this conversation with Wood and Harry, getting him onto the Quidditch team, it’s one of my favorite – these are my favorite moments of McGonagall. Maybe it’s my Gryffindor coming out but – where she’s somewhat bending these rules that she’s usually so firm with, and shows such passion and determination for the success of Gryffindor house. And how do we think that this doesn’t compromise her usual strict adherence to the rules?
Noah: Well, we know she’s kind of part Ravenclaw, or she was almost chosen for Ravenclaw, so she’s got both sides: she wants to adhere to the rules and logic, but at the same time, she’s truly a Gryffindor and she believes in that adventure, she wants to see her little Gryffindors shine. So, I think, in this case, the Gryffindor side of her would win out and she would make this happen for Harry.
Kat: But, I mean…
Caleb: Do we think that makes her a lot like Hermione?
Noah: They should be very similar.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: But, I mean, we learn so much about her past on Pottermore that I think she just has a – she’s obviously a very competitive person and I feel like…
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: …this is kind of beyond the rules for her. She just wants to win. She doesn’t care if…
Noah: It’s Quidditch.
Kat: Yeah, exactly. She just wants to win. And Quidditch is so big at Hogwarts that I feel like any teacher would do this.
Noah: But the Nimbus 2000…
Rosie: Especially if you’ve got someone like Snape taunting you about it.
Kat: Yeah, she can deal with Snape. She can take him.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s something I really didn’t think about until just now, how she and Snape must have this competitive edge even though – I don’t know if she completely trusts Snape at this point even though she has Dumbledore’s vote of confidence. But it also – it makes me just wonder what happens behind the scene with the two of them, what their relationship really is like. Because we see much later in Deathly Hallows when they sort of face off, but…
Noah: Well, Caleb, you could tell us about rivalries among faculty.
Kat: Right, being a teacher.
Caleb: That’s true, yeah. That’s something we can talk about much later, but I think it’s just interesting they do have this sort of – almost friendly sort of competitive edge even though there is this behind-the-scenes – even more behind-the-scenes issue of good versus evil, to put it simply.
Kat: I think that they have to tolerate each other because of Dumbledore. They’re both in his good graces, kind of his left- and right-hand man and woman, so to say.
Caleb: Definitely, yeah.
Kat: So, they both know the same amount of information, pretty much. So, I would see them seeing each other as an equal, in a way.
Caleb: Yeah. Just the more and more I think about it, I love how the two of them set up the sort of relationship between Slytherin and Gryffindor house.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: That’s just really interesting.
Noah: And then they kind of battle it out between each other through Quidditch.
Caleb: Exactly, and then it becomes much more – it becomes a much more open battle later on.
Noah: That’s right.
Rosie: Here’s a quote from the books: McGonagall says, “Heaven knows, we need a better team than last year. Flattened in that last match by Slytherin, I couldn’t look Severus Snape in the face for weeks.”
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: So, there is definitely that rivalry.
Noah: I think there is some fun to it. I think in part it’s good fun, but there’s also real rivalry going on.
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: And as we said, tension that will bubble up to the surface later.
Caleb: Yeah. So, we get past that and we finally get this set-up of this midnight duel, which propels this battle between Harry and Draco. But as this battle, this duel, gets set up, we have the second time that Hermione tries to stop Harry and Ron from breaking the rules, and it got me thinking – because she constantly mentions what it will do to Gryffindor house, she’s so concerned about Gryffindor house’s reputation and point total, do we think she’s doing this to everyone in their house if things like this happen, or is it just Harry and Ron? Is she trying to – in her own awkward, sometimes unsuccessful way – trying to make friends with them?
Kat: Yeah. Again, I think this is her Ravenclaw coming out of her because Ravenclaws – they’re unique and they’re a little awkward, I would say, and I definitely feel like – yeah, it’s Hermione trying to find some odd way to fit in with the Gryffindors. Yeah.
Noah: I think in…
Caleb: Because I feel like if – go ahead.
Noah: Think back to the schoolyard, you’re a young kid and you really want to be friends with them or you really like them, you start hanging around them a little bit.
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: Or maybe that’s all kind of an old story, but you know how you kind of – you pick on the ones that you really like?
Caleb: Yeah. Because I definitely – I feel like Seamus and Dean are doing some shifty stuff every now and then, and Hermione is not all up in their business like she is with Harry and Ron.
Noah: Or maybe she is. We don’t know.
Caleb: Maybe.
Noah: Maybe she’s stopping Fred and George going out every night.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: Yeah, I doubt that.
Caleb: I think Fred and George are kind of above her level at this point. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: She does try later on, though.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: She does, that’s true. So, this battling that starts to happen between Harry and Draco – why is Harry so eager to fight Malfoy and prove himself? There’s a passage in the book where he’s talking about the chance to finally prove himself, he doesn’t want to miss this chance to battle him face to face. Is this a chance to not only get at Malfoy, but also to make up for all of the lost time where he could not face off with Dudley?
Rosie: I don’t think it’s necessarily about Dudley, I think it’s about being a wizard in general. Malfoy is everything that being brought up in magic, and especially being brought up in kind of defensive magic, means. And if Harry has got this legend about being able to defeat this dark wizard, that he really wants to live up to. And being faced with a chance to actually show that skill against Malfoy for the first time, I think he really wants to embrace his legend and become that hero that everyone wants him to be.
Kat: And I think he wants to prove, too, that he’s not incapable of doing magic, because Malfoy constantly says – and Snape says – oh, you don’t know anything. So, I think Harry is really trying to prove himself, yeah.
Noah: And he’s got this wand and he wants to use it.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: And he – you know, just Gryffindor. And I think we’re getting an intro just as Harry is into the dynamics between Gryffindor and Slytherin. They are always at ends, and you always have a personal enemy, and you’ve just got to fight. And it doesn’t help that Malfoy has been egging him on these entire first few chapters.
Caleb: Definitely. So, we finally get to the duel starting up, and before Harry and Ron take off to battle it out, they put on bath robes.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: So, seriously? The best dueling attire is to put on some bath robes?
Kat: Well, I mean…
Rosie: You guys have to remember that this is, what, in September in Scotland? It’s very cold! [laughs]
Noah: Oh.
Rosie: Especially in the middle of the night.
Caleb: That’s fair, but if I’m going off to a duel to battle off my sworn enemy, I’m going to be dressed like a bad-ass…
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: …and I’m going to be ready to take someone out, not some bath robe.
Kat: Well, I mean, they have cloaks and hats and dragon-hide gloves and stuff. Yeah, why wouldn’t he put that on? I don’t know.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: They are eleven.
Caleb: That’s fair.
Kat: Yeah, but they’re dueling so they must know that they’re doing something slightly dangerous.
Noah: But it’s, like, playful danger, though. It’s like, “Oh, I’ll be your second just in case you die.”
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: “What?”
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: But it’s not real. It’s kind of like this is the very miniaturized version of the strifes that they will be having later. [laughs] And it’s cute.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: It is.
Rosie: But we also know that there’s a chance to be caught by Filch as well. So, if you were dressed up for a duel, you’re more likely to be put in detention than if you could say, “Oh, we got lost on the way to the bathroom.”
Noah: Oh, excellent.
Kat: Oh, that makes sense.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Okay.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: I’ll go with that.
Caleb: Good point.
Noah: And, of course, everything that goes wrong will go wrong tonight.
Caleb: Murphy’s Law, exactly.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: So, they leave the common room with Hermione in tow because she doesn’t want to get – she wants to try to stop them from breaking the rules, and where she might have found the time to turn back, she can’t because the Fat Lady has left her portrait. So, this opens the door to the fact that the Fat Lady can sometimes leave, meaning Gryffindor students cannot get back in until she returns. So, it happens to Hermione here. Do we think this is fair? Because in theory, Hufflepuffs and Slytherins can get into their common rooms via the portrait near the kitchens for – no, that’s the potrait for the kitchens. I’m just kidding. The Hufflepuff common room, I guess, we don’t really know how they get in there.
Noah: It’s the barrels.
Rosie: We do.
Kat: It’s the barrels, yeah.
Noah: They tap the rhythm on the barrels.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Oh, that’s right. We figure that out on Pottermore, right.
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Okay. So yeah, so in theory, the Hufflepuffs and Slytherins can always get into their common rooms as long as they know the passwords. Not so simple, though, for Gryffindors who have this barrier and Ravenclaws who have to guess some riddle. Why is this set up differently? Was this something decided on by founders or was it later?
Noah: I think it makes sense that maybe Godric Gryffindor thought this would be a great opportunity to give some students a chance to prove themselves, go on adventures just naturally. It’s going to happen if you get locked out of your dormitory. But I was thinking, just on top of this, it’s so easy for the Gryffindor students to just kind of sneak out. Isn’t there any way that McGonagall maybe knows when somebody exits the building – or the dormitory? Couldn’t there be some sort of magical protection or detection security, anything?
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: Nobody ever stops them, so I feel like they’re almost encouraged to go out into the castle. Gryffindors, anyway.
Kat: Well, I mean, I think the Fat Lady leaving is kind of their consequence for that. It’s like, oh, well you left when you weren’t supposed to be and now you can’t get back in. Well, that’s your own fault.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: That’s very Gryffindor.
Caleb: Which is interesting because some, like Hermione, decides to tag along on the adventure, whereas Neville who is curled up on the floor sleeping because he forgot the password. So…
Kat: But he’s too scared to go on adventures.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, that Hermione opens up to just going on the adventure, whereas Neville is just kind of like, “Well, guess life sucks. I’ll just wait until I can get in.”
Kat: Well, that’s her bravery showing through, yup.
Caleb: Yup, definitely. So, no duel actually happens, which is kind of disappointing. I would have liked to see a duel, because Malfoy is – I think he’s kind of a chicken. He’s also trying to just get Harry in trouble by tipping off Filch. But Neville gets scared, has another klutz moment, knocks over the armor, and then they are taking off, running from Filch and they are just trying to put as much distance between them and Filch as they can. They find this locked door and Hermione opens the door with the namesake of this show, Alohomora!
Noah: Alohomora!
Caleb: Yes.
Kat: Perfect swish and – oh, it’s probably not a swish and click, is it? Oh, swish and flick. Whoops.
Noah: No, Alohomora is just…
Rosie: That’s Wingardium Leviosa.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s the levitation charm.
Noah: Yeah, Alohomora is without swishes or flicks. You just put it to the lock.
Kat: Right, right.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: My bad.
Noah: Open the Dumbledore!
Caleb: So, awesome moment, obviously, for the show because we get to hear Alohomora used for the first time. But on the more serious note, why in the world is only an Alohomora charm protecting people…
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: …from this dangerous three-headed dog? How early do we think most students – not Hermione, because she is not a normal stduent – would know this Alohomora charm? This is dangerous, even if Dumbledore told them the door was off limits.
Noah: Well, I don’t know. I mean, kids die at Hogwarts all the time. I don’t think Dumbledore was thinking about…
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: What?!
Noah: [laughs] I don’t think Dumbledore was…
Caleb: That’s not okay, Noah! [laughs] That’s not okay.
Noah: [laughs] Sorry.
Kat: All the time?
Noah: Anyway…
Kat: I don’t think someone has died…
Rosie: The only one that died was Myrtle.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Well, it depends on your theory. Anyway, I think that Dumbledore meant the door more to protect from dark wizards who could possibly go in to get the stone, and maybe they thought that Alohomora was such a simple incantation that no one would ever think about it, to use it, because they’d think that it’s so obviously protected against. So…
Rosie: But the door doesn’t even matter. Once you’ve gotten past the door, you have to get past the dog. So, the door isn’t there to protect you from the dog. The dog is there to protect you from everything else.
Noah: No, but the door could be the first test just to get anywhere.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: But I mean, this spell is in the Standard Book of Spells: Year 1, so any student who had read the book would know the spell.
Caleb: Right.
Rosie: But as soon as they open the door, they’d see Fluffy and run away, hopefully. [laughs]
Caleb: Hopefully.
Kat: Oh yeah. Unless they’re Hagrid.
Caleb: If they didn’t get eaten.
Kat: Yeah.
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: Geez. And thinking about Fluffy, there is obviously this connection to mythology, very similar to Cerberus, the three-headed dog who protects the underworld. And here, Fluffy, our three-headed dog, is protecting the area beneath the school that is clearly dangerous, with a lot of trials. So, I just found that another relationship to mythology interesting.
Rosie: Also, a link to the afterlife, because again you would be – Cerberus guards the underworld and Fluffy is guarding the key to eternal life.
Caleb: Very true.
Noah: And it’s also worth noting that Dante actually evokes the three-headed creatures all the time. Do we want to talk briefly about how the trapdoor and going through reflects the underworld or going down through hell?
Caleb: Yeah, go for it.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Okay, so Fluffy and the dog kind of generally reflect an insatiable creature, or it reflects animal passions. Because I’m reading Dante’s Inferno at the moment, actually, and when you get down to about the seventh wheel, you get to this creature who keeps biting himself, he’s crazed. And this kind of reflects man’s passion, and people who have too much passion – sinners who have too much passion go here because they can’t control themselves, or they have so much anger. But the dog can also reflect loyalty, as we know. This is kind of – in the Renaissance period, dogs were meant to show kind of faith and loyalty and higher intelligence that is kind of not – that cannot deceive itself. It’s kind of intelligence that is just kind of natural. Because you think about a dog, dogs are just kind of enjoying themselves without thinking about it too much, and that’s kind of a higher intelligence, especially in Christian theology. But anyway, we can see the dog being eased by music, as reflective of all these different symbols of the dog. So, Fluffy is rife with symbolism.
Kat: Thank you, Cesar Millan. Thank you.
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: English major hat off.
Kat: Yeah. [laughs]
Caleb: Nice work. And in this room with Fluffy, Hermione is the only one who notices the trapdoor. Once they get back to the common room, they take off running for their lives once again. And it just reinforces how important she is to the trio. Harry and Ron are completely oblivious to things like this. Harry immediately starts thinking about what could be under the trapdoor – once he knows about it, though. Without Hermione, they would not have noticed the trapdoor. So, it just sort of reinforces how important she is to them.
Kat: They don’t know it yet, but yeah, she is very important.
Caleb: Yeah, definitely. And that – but at the same time – and this is something that’s more – it’s elaborated on in the movie, which I really loved – Ron says it in the movie that after Hermione is much more concerned about them – she says that they almost got them killed but worse, expelled. [laughs] And Hermione really does need to get her priorities together. She’s more worried about expulsion than death, which says a lot about her mental state, I think. But…
Noah: It’s cool. She’s a true Gryffindor.
Caleb: I suppose. But she’s more worried about the rules.
Kat: How is that Gryffindor if she’s worried about getting expelled? That’s Ravenclaw.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: It’s Gryffindor because she’s not worried about death.
Caleb: Okay.
Kat: All right. I’ll buy that.
Caleb: It’s – yeah.
Noah: Yeah!
Caleb: That’s fair.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: I’ll buy that.
Caleb: It’s a good close to the chapter. We have this really intense scene, and then we start to see this relationship build between Harry, Ron, and Hermione that moves more into the next chapter.
Kat: And Harry finally puts it together. I think he realizes what just might be under that trapdoor.
Caleb: Yeah, I think this is definitely a turning point in the book as they start to think about what lies beneath.
Kat: Yeah, put the pieces together.
Noah: [in a spooky voice] Chapter 10: “Halloween”. [back to normal voice] All right, so next morning, everyone comes down for breakfast, and Draco is just surprised to see Harry and Ron are there. And they’re totally fine, they’re not expelled from Hogwarts, and they made it out alive. And a mysterious package comes down from the sky, and it’s a broom-shaped box, and everyone kind of knows what it is but Harry is not allowed to open it because Professor McGonagall says so. But we know it’s a Nimbus 2000. And I just – I was reading this and I was saying, “Really, Professor McGonagall? A Nimbus 2000? One of the most expensive brands of brooms that even Draco can’t have in his own home?” So I just want to know, who paid for this? Is there a special Hogwarts fund or – we know how McGonagall is really passionate about Quidditch and Harry. Did she spend all her money to buy this? I can’t imagine how expensive it is, but it’s a lot.
Kat: Well, I mean, I don’t think it’s all her money, but yeah, I would say she bought it for him. Absolutely.
Caleb: Yeah, I definitely think she did. And if it does come from the school funds, is it similar to those funds that were available to Tom Riddle who didn’t have money to buy his stuff? And does that make him more controversial? Because the broom is definitely not a necessity like the textbooks would have been for Riddle.
Noah: No, it’s not at all.
Kat: Yeah, that’s why I think McGonagall took it out of her personal fund.
Rosie: Yeah, I think McGonagall would have paid for it as well, and she would have – she does care about Harry as well, not just the team, and I think she feels bad for the way he’s grown up. And we know that she didn’t want to leave him with the Dursleys.
Noah: And she just – she knows…
Rosie: So, something so inherently magical and so obviously something that he wants…
Noah: Yeah. And she knew his parents.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: So, it’s just a – this is probably a very personal gift. Because if the school had bought it, it probably would have been a Cleansweep.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah, I think this, in her way, is how she’s showing affection to Harry. I agree with Rosie, totally.
Noah: Yeah. All right, so this whole chapter then becomes about Draco, Harry and Ron getting really excited about Quidditch and stuff. And Harry and Ron are on one side, and Draco, Crabbe and Goyle are on the other. And Draco just becomes very, very jealous of the fact that Harry has this Nimbus 2000. He can’t believe it. And I just – looking at this from an English major perspective – maybe Rosie can help me out here a little bit – do we see the broom being put on this pedestal and how they’re both – all the guys are like – they love it so much. Do we see this Quidditch back and forth as a battle of masculinities a little bit? And Harry is wanting the broom and being better on it as kind of a – I’m just saying, is there a narrative of being a man running through this story? Or the coming of age story?
Rosie: I don’t know if it’s necessarily just being a man or if it’s that kind of – it’s an essential school story thing, isn’t it? It’s the jock being the sporty guy at high school. It’s kind of natural for – I don’t know why it’s natural, but it is for the athletic people to be considered the best. And if this is wizards’ version of, I don’t know, American football or whatever – or just football, soccer, for us in England…
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: …then it’s Harry wanting to prove that he is – he can be that cool guy, again, that everyone thinks he is.
Kat: Well, and he is in the jock house, right?
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: Which we talked about last week. So that fits, yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, I definitely see a lot of typical [unintelligible] themes coming out here, so it’s good that you pulled that out.
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: I was really struck by the ideology of the broomstick and…
Kat: Well, it’s also really expensive and really cool, and no one has ever really seen one. So…
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: That’s true.
Rosie: Plus, for a reading audience, it’s kind of what do we think of when we think of witches? We think of black cats and flying around on broomsticks. We need, as an audience, as a reader, to see this thing that we know is so inherently magical within our books, and we want Harry to be good at it because that’s what we know of as a successful witch or wizard.
Noah: Yeah. And as you just said, the broom is often oriented with a witch. And is it true to say that in a way Jo has masculinized the broomstick a little bit as now she has to prove – maybe part of the first book was to show how a broomstick could be fun for males as well as females?
Rosie: Yeah. [laughs]
Kat: But, I mean, we don’t see a woman on a broomstick for a long time, right?
Noah: No, we will in Quidditch.
Caleb: Well, we seen it in this – on the Gryffindor team, their Chasers are all girls.
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: I just feel like the broomstick has been kind of masculinized a little bit, and I really want to go into broom analysis and stuff, but I cannot and – I can do that later, but there is this…
Kat: That’s what the forums are for.
Noah: That’s what the forums are for. So, if you want to go there, be my guest. But while we just brought up the Quidditch team, how cool is it that the Quidditch team is co-ed?
Kat: It’s pretty awesome.
Caleb: Yeah, I love it. I love it.
Rosie: I think everything at Hogwarts is co-ed, though. There’s no separation and I think that was important for Jo as a female writer.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: I mean, she was forced to write her stories as J.K. Rowling rather than Joanne.
Noah: Right.
Caleb: Mhm.
Rosie: So, I think she wanted to make everything as kind of open and…
Noah: Equal.
Rosie: Equal as possible, yeah.
Kat: Yup.
Noah: It’s so – and that’s just really cool. And I believe the Slytherin team – is it all male?
Caleb: It is, yup.
Kat: Yup.
Noah: So, we can – we’ll get there later, but maybe a gender politics discussion going on with these Quidditch teams.
Caleb: Absolutely.
Kat: Well, I mean, we know the Slytherins aren’t really all that fair and equal and everything anyway. So, it makes sense to me that there are no females on that team.
Caleb: Yeah. I mean, as – because I love gender politics and thinking back to when the founders would have started up, do we think that Salazar may have been a little…
Noah: Chauvinistic.
Caleb: Not so – yeah, maybe he would have been and not so equal when it comes to gender issues.
Rosie: Definitely. I think the pureblood idea, to me, definitely screams kind of…
Caleb: Masculinity, yeah.
Noah: Old ways.
Rosie: Yeah, kind of old ways, old blood, old families, that kind of very patriarchal view of kind of the head of the family and all of his offspring.
Kat: Yeah, he definitely wasn’t leading any feminist rallies or anything, no.
Rosie: [laughs] No.
Caleb: Exactly.
Noah: But then he wasn’t necessarily for all man, either, because he didn’t get along with Godric Gryffindor. And then – he was really just more into himself. He’ll create his own Chamber of Secrets.
Caleb: Right.
Kat: But that was more about their beliefs than the sex of the person.
Caleb: Which I think is also very interesting because it definitely parallels how race comes into – like, as far as our actual history.
Noah: Bloodline.
Caleb: Yeah, how race and gender have sort of intersected at a very interesting place and – at least American history. I can’t speak for the U.K. But…
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: We were talking a few weeks ago in the Academia podcast about the idea of Slytherins as Nazis and that whole kind of idea of this – again, that would be a very patriarchal, very pureblood point of view, which I think you can definitely see within Slytherin, within Voldemort, within the Malfoy family. All of that kind of…
Noah: Yeah. Of course, Slytherins are not Nazis.
Rosie: No. [laughs]
Noah: They’re…
Caleb: No.
Noah: But we feel like Jo has posited them, at least within Harry’s story, as these kind of Naziist characters. Especially the Death Eaters. That’s…
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: So – I mean, we’ll get into all of this.
Rosie: Yeah, when I said Slytherin, I meant Salazar rather than the house. [laughs]
Noah: Yeah. [laughs] Anyway, there’s another flight with Harry, just before he’s going to be training with Wood to learn about Quidditch. And it’s just so easy for him. He’s just naturally flying and the broom just reacts to him perfectly. So, I wanted to get you guys’ opinion: Are brooms kind of like wands? Again, can they think to a degree, or is it more of a reactionary thing? And is it just more natural? Because we know that they’re made from trees, obviously, so they have a natural connection to people. But I just want to know, how does it work?
Caleb: And also similar to wands because if they’re from trees, so are wands. So…
Noah: Exactly, how are they different from wands, besides not being able to produce magic?
Kat: Well, I mean, they don’t have the magical cores in them, so – I think the core is what gives the wands a personality. It kind of what awakens the wood. It makes it special.
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: So, it’s…
Rosie: It’s like a conduit.
Kat: Right. So, as far as the broomsticks go, I mean, the wood itself I think makes very little difference. I mean, I don’t even think they ever tell us what wands – or what broomsticks are made of. But I think that’s more of an instinctual thing. If you’re comfortable on a broom, then the broom is going to react positively. If you’re like Neville and you’re anxious and worried, then it’s going to shoot you forty feet in the air and drop you.
Noah: But then…
Rosie: I always found – Hermione’s reaction to flying was really interesting. Like, she should be really confident. She knows all kind of the theory behind flying, she would have read Quidditch Through the Ages so many times.
Noah: [laughs] Yeah.
Rosie: She would know all about it. So, why is putting into practice for her so difficult?
Kat: Because it’s so much more instinctual and Hermione is…
Noah: Exactly.
Kat: …very bookish. Very bookish.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: So, if you can’t learn it out of a book, she has a hard time with it.
Noah: The broom has got to be like an extension of the self, maybe even more than the wand, because it’s going towards your – it’s reacting to your smallest movements or signals, so you really just have to be confident and feel it. And Hermione hasn’t – at least at this stage, she hasn’t excelled in that as much as Harry has.
Kat: Well, she’s not quite sure who she is yet. I think she’s still trying to find her place.
Noah: That too.
Kat: She’s still trying to fit in.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah. But I think also the difference is the fact that brooms – I think they’re created by a number of enchantments, maybe moreso than wands.
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: So, you can really infuse various magics into them to make them different.
Caleb: Yeah, definitely. That’s how it sets up the competition between companies that produce brooms, I would think.
Noah: Yeah. And they produce them in mass, I’m sure.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah, kind of like cars. What features does this broom have? What spells or enchantments are on the broom?
Rosie: Mhm.
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: Yeah, so is it really only a matter of enchantments that make one broom better than another? And can you enchant, like, a Cleansweep to be faster than a Firebolt?
Caleb: I would think not.
Kat: Yeah, I would think – because then what would be the point in buying a Firebolt?
Caleb: There’s some secret in the production that they company is able to…
Noah: Yeah, yeah.
Kat: Some spell that they’ve invented, yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: And just like streamlining them as well, like you would for a normal car.
Caleb: Yup.
Noah: Yeah, just to – just as an aside, anybody listening to the show, we also want to feature art on Alohomora! and all these scenes of Harry flying in the very first year are rift with various images you could create. So, if anyone wants to make those, we’d be happy to feature them on the site. You could upload them to – what’s that website, Rosie?
Rosie: To Photobucket, or you could even submit them through Twitter or Tumblr and we’ll upload them to the site ourselves.
Kat: Or e-mail us at alohomorapodcast at gmail dot com.
Noah: Yeah, exactly. So, through all those windows, we’d be happy to put them up. So, Wood starts teaching Harry about Quidditch and we get the various balls. And this is where I’m going to spin off a little bit. Tell me if I’m reading into it a little too much. But we see the…
Kat: You? Never.
[Caleb and Noah laugh]
Noah: We see the Bludgers or these kind of aggressive balls that are actively trying to hit you, and we see the Snitch as this kind of small thing that you have to catch. And I was wondering, is the Quidditch game itself a side of the kind of cultural gender discourse? Because if you think about the balls attacking people, this is kind of a culturally masculine position. And then the Snitch – which ultimately wins the game and both Seekers on each opposing team are trying to catch – is kind of this feminine allusive thing that the Seeker has to catch, and that’s how the game is won. So, is that a ridiculous theory, or does that kind of change our reading of the game?
Caleb: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s – it’s kind of a stretch, but I can see where you’re going. I mean, definitely the female – the more feminine based part of the game being the Snitch is smaller, it’s very pristine, it’s allusive. I think those are generally more feminine traits. I can see where you’re going. What do you think about the Quaffle, though? Do we think it’s neutral?
Noah: The Quaffle is neutral, yeah.
Caleb: A netural [unintelligible]?
Noah: Yeah, even if – it doesn’t seem to be magical or have personality as the other ones. It’s just – it’s right in the middle.
Caleb: It’s hard to see the balls as something that’s part of the gender discourse, because I think there’s so much – as we sort of alluded to earlier – that’s going on in the game itself with the players that I think it’s more playing into the gender discussion. But…
Noah: Yeah.
Caleb: …hopefully – I can see hints of it.
Noah: Just my, like, crazy outlook in a sense. Or not too crazy, just very, very in-depth.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: All right, so after Harry learns about Quidditch, it’s getting towards Halloween dinner. He runs right in and actually – what’s really cool is the fact that he’s running in so abrupt that the line in the books is so abrupt. It cuts right in the middle of a description of the room, and then just runs right up to Dumbledore and has this line: “Troll! Troll in the dungeon! Thought you ought to know.”
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: I love that they duplicated it so well in the movie.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: Mhm. In the movie, yeah.
Noah: So, fast forward to troll fight, Harry sticks his wand up his nose.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: Yada yada. And then the professors come in, and Quirrell is one of them and then he faints and clutches his heart at the sight of the troll. And I was wondering, yes, it’s true that he’s been putting on a show the whole time for the other teachers, but he did also fail Voldemort miserably in this scene when he sees the troll down, because he meant that originally to distract Dumbledore so he could go off towards the third floor. Now, we know Snape probably head him off at that moment, but in all cases with failure. Do we think that he was clutching his heart because of Voldemort or just because it was part of the show?
Caleb: I think it’s definitely part of the show. I mean, yeah, I think he’s still trying to play up the part, especially with Snape there who by this time I would imagine he thinks might be onto him, is trying to play up the part as much as possible.
Kat: I don’t know, maybe Voldemort kind of got – I wonder if he could see it. I mean, being at the back of his head, I don’t know. But in later books, when Voldemort gets angry, Harry feels it, so maybe Voldemort was angry and Quirrell felt it and it was so much that he kind of collapsed.
Noah: But then I guess if Harry didn’t feel anything in that instant, maybe it was fake.
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: But maybe it wasn’t necessarily to do with Voldemort. Maybe it was to do with the fact that it was Harry. I mean, Quirrell has definitely aligned himself with Voldemort’s return here, but he’s just brought in this mountain troll that no one should be able to defeat, and here is Harry Potter – who is Quirrell’s enemy at this point as well – managing to defeat this mountain troll with only the help of two of his eleven-year-old friends.
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: And this is who Quirrell is basically facing throughout the entire year. So, when Quirrell looks at the troll, he’s not just looking at the troll, he’s looking at Harry as well, and maybe that’s enough to make him faint.
Noah: Perhaps.
Rosie: The threat that Harry poses to his plan.
Noah: Yeah. Hey, round of applause, guys, for Harry’s first eleven-year-old victory against Voldemort.
Kat: Yay!
[Someone claps]
Caleb and Rosie: [laughs] Yay!
Noah: He doesn’t do the – I mean, he’s going to do crazy intense things throughout the series that young kids can’t really do, but this is like – this is definitely the second one.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Beating Voldemort when he was one, that was the first. But this is the second.
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: Not only that, but it’s the first time that they’re really working as a team as well.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: It’s Ron listening to Hermione’s earlier lesson of Wingardium Leviosa that ultimately beats the troll.
Kat: Yup.
Noah: This is – yeah, this is a really emotional moment, guys.
Caleb: Aww.
Noah: And then we close out the chapter with: “But from that moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend. There are some things you can’t share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.”
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: I love it. My Gryffindor love just – ahh, I just emote with this part so much. [laughs]
Kat: It’s a good line. It’s a good line.
Caleb: It is.
Rosie: Definitely.
Noah: It is. And there’s not really much more I can add to it, but I just want to mention it.
Kat: What do you think it is about conquering a mountain troll that makes you friends?
Noah: Well, just the fact that it’s a mountain troll.
Caleb: And they did it together.
Rosie: It’s a once in a lifetime experience.
Caleb: They absolutely did it together. Like, every one of those three did something in that scene to make it happen. They could not have done it with just two of them, with just one of them. It took all three.
Noah: And maybe…
Rosie: Plus, it’s essentially saving Hermione’s life, which she can – she’s eternally in their debt for. So…
Caleb: Mhm.
Noah: I’m not even going to bring up the gender stuff there. Damsel in distress.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s true, but…
Noah: But Hermione’s not that kind of damsel.
Caleb: That’s right.
Rosie: But you could, maybe not necessarily in terms of gender roles, but in terms of the romance of the story. I mean, the first time that her life was in danger and it’s Ron that saves her.
Kat: Aww.
Caleb: Yeah, and he’s the one that actually does the crushing blow to the troll.
Rosie: Because he listened to her, not because he did it himself.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: Right.
Noah: Because he listened to her, yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, so that empowers the feminine role there. So…
Noah: Do we think that also the fact that they are a Gryffindor makes sense why they’re suddenly friends? Maybe it’s just something about Gryffindors. They always have to do something epic with each other to finally become friends.
Caleb: Yeah, I think there’s some sort of camaraderie there, since they accomplished this very – almost like a quest.
Noah: Caleb, have you ever gone on any quests with any Gryffindors?
Caleb: Man, I’d have to think about that. I mean, I definitely think there’s been times in my life where I’ve done very – not very extreme, but somewhat above average things that definitely bring me closer to people. Probably things from college that I’m not going to talk about on the show.
Kat: [laughs] That’s probably a safe bet, yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Just wait until we all get to LeakyCon.
Caleb: Yes.
Kat: More about that later, of course.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: Cool, so that – I mean, great.
Noah: Special feature?
Kat: Well, hold on. That ends our chapter discussion for this week. So, if you have any comments on anything that we said, you can head over to Alohomora.MuggleNet.com and let us know what you think.
Rosie: Great. So, it’s now time for our Special Feature of the Week, which this week, we want to know all of your What If? questions. So, we’re going to take some fun and interesting What If? questions from the fandom, and basically just try and answer them. So, here are a few that we’ve already collected: What if Fluffy had attacked Ron, that first time in the corridor? What do you guys think?
Noah: Well, considering Harry and Hermione – I mean, Hermione might have known some magic, but considering they didn’t know much of it, I think Ron would have died…
[Kat laughs]
Noah: …and then everyone would have been really sad.
Caleb: Oh no.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: And poor Neville probably would have fainted or run away screaming.
Caleb: Yeah. Because if it would have been Ron that got attacked instead of Neville, then that would have been terrible luck.
Noah: If it had been Neville?
Caleb: Well, I think it’s just – if any of them would have gotten hurt, it would have been much more likely Neville, but…
Noah: If it would have been Neville, that would have been really sad…
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: …considering everything that’s happened to him. [laughs]
Kat: Oh, poor guy. I know. Poor kid.
Rosie: Do you think that Hermione would have been able to do anything? I mean, she knows more magic than the others. Would she have been able to stop Fluffy in any way?
Noah: I doubt it.
Caleb: I don’t think so. I think they would have had…
Kat: Well, she seemed to know about that Curse of the Bogies. Maybe she could have shot that at Fluffy.
Noah: I don’t think a curse – he already has enough bogies.
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Kat: That’s true.
Rosie: Plus, isn’t that Ginny’s speciality later on?
Caleb: Yeah. Well, no, she does the Bat Bogey hex.
Rosie: I’ve always assumed that was the same thing.
Caleb: Possibly. I bet they’re similar, at least.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: How many bogies are in this chapter?
Caleb: A lot.
Kat: A lot of bogies.
Noah: The troll mucus…
Kat: Yup.
Noah: Does Jo have an affinity?
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: I think it’s Jo recognizing affinity that eleven-year-old boys have.
Caleb: Yes.
Kat: It’s true.
[Caleb and Rosie laugh]
Kat: I mean, they have the Bertie Botts bogies. I mean, maybe wizards are just…
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: …fascinated with bogies.
Noah: Talk about the marketing of this book to eleven, twelve-year-old boys.
Caleb: Yup.
Noah: In the entire thing. It’s a publishing strategy.
Kat: Oh, come on, there are girls out there that like bogies too, I’m sure.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: I’m not speaking for myself. I’m just saying in general.
[Everyone laughs]
Rosie: Yeah, it’s not a publishing strategy. It’s more of a storytelling strategy. It’s convincing enough that the eleven-year-old narrator of the story, who is Harry, is interested in these things.
Noah: Notices.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: And we get fewer and fewer of these…
Rosie: As he grows up.
Kat: Right, well…
Caleb: It’s just great writing by our author.
Kat: I’m thinking that if Ron was attacked, what would they have done? I mean, they would have had to go to Madam Pomfrey to get him fixed, and then what would their story have been?
Caleb: Yeah, they would have maybe tried to come up with a story and maybe Dumbledore would have showed up, knowing what was happening. Maybe they wouldn’t have gotten in a crazy amount of trouble, but…
Noah: Keep in mind Dumbledore knows everything that’s going on.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: So…
Caleb: He probably knows that they’re onto it or something.
Rosie: But Filch is in the area as well, so if Ron got attacked, I’m fairly sure he would have been fairly loud.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: So, Filch would probably have heard. [laughs]
Noah: And then Filch’s heart would have grown three sizes that day.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Run Ron to Madam Pomfrey, in which Ron would be healed and they would uncover their new romance.
Rosie: So yeah, to follow on with that idea, what if the trio was caught by Filch before or after they went in to see Fluffy?
Caleb: Hmm.
Kat: They would have been hung by their ankles in the dungeons.
Caleb: Yeah.
[Noah laughs]
Caleb: I feel like this What If? question shows up a lot in the series, whether it’s them sneaking into the library or just around the castle or out on the grounds.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: There’s a lot of times where we could ask this question. That would have just thrown everything into disorder if they would have been caught.
Kat: I would say Filch would have run off to McGonagall or Dumbledore, and tried to get them in trouble. But they might have just been dismissed. Go back to bed.
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: They wouldn’t actually have to do anything.
Kat: Lose fifteen points or whatever. Yeah, go back to bed.
Caleb: Probably.
Rosie: Okay, What If? question…
Kat: Although, would they have been caught outside of the third floor or inside the third floor?
Caleb: I don’t think Filch is going near that third floor corridor if he knows what’s in there.
Kat: That’s true. So, what if they were caught when they were running out of the trophy room?
Caleb: Yeah, then there would have been middle punishment. Because then they probably would have told what the story was that Malfoy – well, I mean, if Filch already knew that it was a set-up of a duel or something.
Kat: Right. So yeah, they probably would have – the professor, whoever Filch went to, would have been a little more lenient, knowing that Malfoy had set them up.
Caleb: They would give them detention or something.
Kat: Yeah. Okay.
Rosie: Okay, so What If? question number three: What if they hadn’t noticed the trapdoor, going back to our earlier discussion? Would they have ever known about the Philosopher’s Stone being down there?
Noah: They probably would have gone down to the Chamber of Secrets, and then found nothing and had to turn around.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Well, it would have made for an awful book…
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: …if they had never noticed the trapdoor.
Caleb: Yeah, because I think, as we mentioned earlier, this is kind of the turning point where they start investigating.
Kat: But would they have learned about it in another way?
Rosie: Yeah, do you really need to know about the trapdoor to know that the dog is there for a reason?
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: If you know that the thing is being hidden in Hogwarts, and suddenly there’s a corridor that is out of bounds…
Caleb: Yeah.
Rosie: Whether you’ve got a trapdoor in it or not, you kind of…
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: You start to think…
Noah: There’s something there.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: So, they probably would have mentioned that Gryffindors can’t contain…
Kat: Hagrid would have let something slip and they would have figured it out.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: A few more hours and Hagrid would have told them exactly how to get past the mirror.
[Caleb and Rosie laugh]
Noah: And the chess game.
Kat: Yeah, exactly.
Caleb: He has all the secrets just waiting to divulge.
Kat: Does Hagrid know all about that, though?
Caleb: About what?
Kat: About all of the protections.
Caleb: I think all the professors know about all of them.
Noah: However…
Rosie: They know they exist, at least, whether they know what they are or not. Because Quirrell doesn’t know what…
Noah: But the question was – the professors or Hagrid, they might have just not told Hagrid because they don’t consider him…
Caleb: I think he’s in on it.
Rosie: Yeah, he leant them Fluffy.
Caleb: I think he would be more likely to know – I think if the other staff did not know, he would because Dumbledore would tell him.
Noah: That’s true.
Kat: Speaking of Fluffy, where did Fluffy live before he lived on the third floor?
Rosie: Yeah, and where does he go after Book 1?
Kat: Well, he definitely goes into the Forbidden Forest. I remember reading that. I don’t remember where, but I do remember reading that. Somebody brought it up in a Fan of the Week once, and so I went searching for it, and he lives in the Forbidden Forest.
Caleb: Yeah, so…
Rosie: He makes a great pet for Grawp.
Kat: [laughs] Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, I think Hagrid probably found him somewhere – God only knows where he was – before he was chilling in the third floor corridor.
Kat: Okay.
Noah: Guarding the gates of hell.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, exactly.
[Rosie laughs]
Caleb: Hades is pissed because he lost his guard.
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: Okay, so our final What If? question for today is: What if Hermione wasn’t attacked by the troll? What if it was someone else, and would they still have gone to save them? So, thinking about our earlier discussion, what if it was Parvati or someone like that?
Noah: Well, I can’t imagine they would leave anybody there ever, you know?
Caleb: Yeah, but still, they hear the scream and they know it’s Hermione, and as they’re taking off, they think she wouldn’t have been there without…
Rosie: Yeah, they feel guilty.
Caleb: …Ron making her cry and take off earlier.
Kat: So, is that the only reason they help her, is because they feel bad?
Caleb: I don’t think it’s the only reason, but I think it’s the prevailing one.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: Because I still think there’s a Gryffindor-esque need to save the day sort of going on.
Kat: Be the hero.
Caleb: But they definitely – yeah, they feel compelled to do more so because of the situation with Hermione. So…
Noah: I mean, consider you locked somebody inside with a full-grown mountain troll in a small bathroom, and you were therefore the cause of the attack that would follow, you’re going to go back and save that person.
Caleb: Me? Absolutely.
Rosie: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: It’s the…
Noah: Or at least unlock the door and run.
Kat: That’s probably what I would do because – there’s actually a great discussion going on in your forum on the forums, Caleb, about which house you least represent.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: And for me, unfortunately, it is Gryffindor. I’m brave and courageous when I need to be, but a mountain troll? I don’t know. I would probably unlock the door and run. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Open it, at best, but I wouldn’t go in.
Caleb: Yeah. There is a lot of good discussion going on there. If you haven’t, check out my forum, Caleb’s Cupboard, and talk about the house you least feel you fit in. Good stuff going on there.
Rosie: But what if it had been someone like Parvati that was in the bathroom, and they had got in and tried to save the day, still? I mean, we already pointed out that line where it says that you couldn’t go through something like that without becoming friends. Would Hermione not have become part of the trio? Would it have been Parvati, and maybe it become a quadrat with both sisters?
Noah: Possibly.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: That’s very true. Because they kind of hated Hermione before this.
Caleb: Yeah. I think it’s such an important moment that it’s Hermione, so I think it would have thrown off the whole dynamic.
Kat: But did they hate Hermione? I think it’s more that they were annoyed by her know-it-all nature?
Caleb: Yeah, I think Ron is definitely much more annoyed by her, and Harry just is by proxy because of Ron, I think. So…
Kat: Yeah, I think Harry generally doesn’t have an opinion about her. He just feels it through Ron, yeah.
Caleb: Yup.
Rosie: And I think that’s partly due to Ron’s kind of little brother syndrome as well. He doesn’t like being shown up about things, and Hermione is constantly doing things better than he is.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: So, if it was Parvati in there, hard to say. I don’t know. I mean, why was she in there? Just because she was using the loo? Or…
Caleb: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, there likely wouldn’t have been many people in there because of the Halloween feast, so – Hermione is skipping it for a reason. So, maybe this is just a scene that had to be set up this way.
Kat: Yeah, because they wouldn’t have gone to the bathroom, and they wouldn’t have locked the door or heard the scream if they hadn’t been the cause of her in there. So…
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: All right, that about answers that question.
Kat: Well, good What If?’s. If you guys come up with any other good What If?’s, send them to us. We want to hear them.
Caleb: Absolutely.
Noah: It could be a Twitter or a Facebook or a site comment.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: Or forums or Tumblr or anywhere!
Rosie: Yup.
Caleb: We’re all over the place.
Kat: Yeah, we are.
Noah: Anywhere online.
Rosie: So, send us an owl! [laughs]
Noah: Any – send us… [laughs]
Kat: Oh, I’d love to get an owl. That would be fun.
Noah: A real owl?
Kat: Yeah, I love owls.
Caleb: Help us. I want it.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: I met the owl Gizmo that plays Hedwig when I went to the studio tour. Did I tell you that?
Caleb: Oh really?
Rosie: Oh wow.
Caleb: That’s awesome.
Kat: That was really cool.
Noah: That’s not a real owl?
Kat: Yes, what do you mean?
Noah: It’s a real owl, right?
Kat: Yeah. His name is Gizmo.
Noah: Oh wait…
Kat: There’s a picture of it on my Twitter.
Noah: Is that true?
Kat: That’s true.
Noah: Oh.
Caleb: It makes me happy that he’s still alive.
Kat: Yeah. I met Crookshanks and Pigwidgeon, too.
Caleb: Ahh! I love it.
Kat: I know.
Caleb: I want to go.
Kat: It was really cool.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: All right, sorry.
Noah: And I believe the Sirius Black dog is currently up for adoption.
Caleb: Aww.
Kat: No, I think he’s been adopted by now. That’s, like, a six month old story.
Noah: Oh good. Thank goodness.
Kat: You’ve got to go on MuggleNet and read the news more, Noah.
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: I posted that news story.
Kat: Oh okay. Sorry.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: All right, so here’s Noah’s Posed Question of the Week. Everybody listen up. So, in these chapters, we’ve been talking a lot about the trio and their courageous attitudes towards each other, and the way they faced various dangers in the opening period of their relationship. Now, to what extent do we believe that the trio need each other to show this courage? And do we think they’d be able to stand up on their own, if given the same troubles? Do the trio perhaps represent different aspects of courage, and what ideas can the reader draw from their characters that might apply to their own lives? So, in essence, what is Jo saying about courage through these characters? Yeah, so what we’d like you to do is to head over to the front page of Alohomora! where you can write your comments. Write in there and we’ll be reading them on the show.
Kat: And if any of you fans out there want to be on the show as our special fan guest, there are several ways that you can do that. The first is by submitting the content, like answers to the Posed Question of the Week, on our Alohomora! website or on the forums. The second is you can send us a recording of yourself analyzing a part of the books. Please know that you do need appropriate audio equipment and recording equipment. Just as of note, we’re getting a lot of recordings of people just kind of talking about their love for Harry Potter. And that’s great, we love hearing those. But in order to be on the show, we need to know that you can analyze. So, please send us a clip of yourself analyzing the book. All the other clips we love hearing, but we can’t have you on the show if you can’t analyze.
Caleb: And if you just need to contact us or keep up with us in general, be sure to follow us on Twitter. Our handle there is @AlohomoraMN. And check us out on Facebook at Facebook.com/OpenTheDumbledore. And you can actually now listen to us right on our Facebook page. Just click on the Podcast tab, choose an episode, and enjoy the episode right there. Definitely check out our Tumblr page, which is MNAlohomora.Tumblr.com. And of course, our main page where you can find just about everything: Alohomora.MuggleNet.com. And as we’ve mentioned several times, our main e-mail address is alohomorapodcast at gmail dot com.
Rosie: And don’t forget, you can also subscribe to us on our iTunes feed. Thank you all so much for the wonderful reviews and comments and suggestions that you’ve left on our iTunes pages. There are different ones for all the different countries. So, please do keep them coming in. We love reading them and we definitely do take your opinions into consideration.
Noah: And we’d also like to mention that we’ll be going to LeakyCon this summer in Chicago. All of us. We’re all going to be there. And we’d love to meet you guys. We just love to talk Potter with anybody. So, if you’d like to see us there, we’ll be there from August 9th to 12th?
Kat: Yup. Mhm.
Noah: And there could be some secret show, we don’t know. But we’ll be happy to talk with any fans and to hang out.
Kat: Yeah, so come find us. We’ll be at the MuggleNet table.
[Show music begins]
Noah: I’m Noah.
Rosie: I’m Rosie.
Caleb: I’m Caleb.
Kat: And I’m Kat. Thank you for listening to Episode 4 of Alohomora!
Noah: Open the Dumbledore!
[Show music continues]
Kat: Rosie, you sound so lovingly English right now, with the…
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: I love the birds behind you.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: It sets up the whole scene. I picture you…
Rosie: Very English country garden. [laughs]
Kat: Yes, I was just going to say. I picture you sitting in a garden and there’s birds all around you. Very Snow White-esque while you record your podcast on your computer.
Rosie: Well, my bedroom is in extension, so I’m technically in the garden right now. [laughs]
Kat: Oh, lovely.
