Transcripts

Transcript – Episode 225

[Show music begins]

Kristen Keys: This is Episode 225 of Alohomora! for July 22, 2017.

[Show music continues]

Kristen: Hello, listeners, and welcome! I’m Kristen Keys.

Alison Siggard: I’m Alison Siggard.

Kat Miller: And I’m Kat Miller. And our guest today is not really a guest because she’s been on the last four dozen episodes…

[Kat and Katy laugh]

Kat: Guys, Katy is back. Hello, Katy.

Katy Cartee Haile: Hello, Kat, and everyone else! I hope you’re not getting sick of my voice. [laughs] But I’m happy to be here again.

Kat: Ah, they’re not allowed to be sick of your voice.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: This is my second time recording with you this week, Katy.

Katy: It is! [laughs] So go listen to SpeakBeasty.

Kat: Yeah, you guys did Beasty, right?

Katy: We did.

Alison: Yeah, we did!

Kat: It was about time you were on that show, Alison.

Alison: I know! It took 40 episodes, but I made it. [laughs]

Kat: Yay!

Katy: Squee!

Alison: But this is Alohomora!

Kat: It is.

Alison: … and we are revisiting a chapter today, listeners. The chapter we are revisiting is Prisoner of Azkaban, Chapter 10, “The Marauder’s Map.” So make sure you read that before listening. And you also might want to go back and re-listen to our last read-through of this, which was Episode 24, 200 episodes ago. That’s a long time.

Kat: Wow, that’s crazy!

Alison: Fun fact: It was my first episode as a guest host, actually.

Katy: No way! That’s awesome.

Kat: It was?

Alison: It was! I think it was.

Kat: Just when you were Miss Ali Wood on the forums.

Alison: Yes, exactly.

Katy: Aww.

Kat: Our little moderator. Aww, that’s cute.

Alison: Yeah, it was funny. I was like, “Oh my gosh! That’s me, again.”

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Happy… It’s not really an anniversary. What is it, a reread-iversary?

Katy: [laughs] Yes!

Alison: I don’t know… It’s like a circle. The circle of life. I have returned.

Kat: Oh, it is just one giant circle theory. That’s what you are.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Katy: Very fitting that you’re on this episode.

Kat: Very. And someone else who is really special and awesome and is on this episode is our Patreon sponsor, and that is Courtney Elliott this time around. Let’s give her an awesome round of applause.

[Everyone claps]

Kat: Thank you, Courtney. And any one of you out there listening can become a sponsor of this show for as little as $1 per month. We have been releasing exclusive tidbits and things for our sponsors, so you can head over to alohomora.mugglenet.com/patreon or patreon.com/alohomora and become a sponsor like the very awesome Courtney. So thank you again, Courtney. Yay!

Katy: [claps] Yay, Courtney!

Alison: Another super awesome thing: Where are you all going to be on September 1 this year? That’s in… what is that, two months?

Kat: Oh my gosh, it’s 40-something days. It’s so soon.

Kristen: Yeah, not long at all.

Alison: So soon!

Kat: It’s so soon, and MuggleNet is throwing the biggest party that has literally ever been thrown. Although, that’s kind of an oxymoron because it’s also a really small and very intimate party as well. And of course, as you all know – because you’ve listened to this show a hundred times and I’m sure you’ve seen the ads and the tweets and all that stuff – it is at the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Diagon Alley in Universal Studios, Florida – and we have reserved it for all of you. Come and join us. I’m pretty sure at this point all of the hosts are going to be there.

Katy: I’m officially a “yes” now!

Kat and Kristen: Yay!

Alison: Woohoo!

Katy: I can make that announcement!

Kat: And Katy will be there! So you guys can come and tell her how sick you are of listening to her voice.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: Just kidding. Don’t do that.

Alison: Yeah, it’s going to be awesome. Universal actually just released a time-lapse video of the Wizarding World from day to night, and the only thing I could think of was, “You can see that in real life!” Because you’re going to be there after hours when the park is the most magical. It’s amazing and it’s going to be really exciting.

Kristen: And not crowded. [laughs]

Alison: Yes, not crowded. And we’re going to have a bunch of super special guests just wandering around. Our newest announcement… I don’t think… Have we talked about this on Alohomora! yet?

Kat: I don’t think so.

Alison: Our newest guest announcement was none other than Sean Biggerstaff, Oliver Wood himself, and my 11-year-old heart died, as we all know.

[Kat, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: He’s making his US debut. It’s his first Harry Potter event in the States ever, so it’s really exciting. You can come and meet him, and there’s no additional fee for autographs and photographs. Anybody who is a con-goer knows how expensive that can get real fast…

Alison: Seriously, though.

Kat: And we have eight really awesome special guests, including Sean and Christian Coulson, Chris Rankin, Luke Youngblood, and then some of the kids from the epilogue and the flashback kids and all that. So it’s going to be one really awesome night to remember. Less than 500 people in the park, and if you’ve ever been to Diagon Alley, you know how incredibly crowded that can become. It’s going to be personal space heaven! You guys can do somersaults and cartwheels and backflips and all that stuff; it’s going to be a lot of room. Details on all of that – there are still tickets available, although very few, to be honest – are over at mugglenetlive.com, so go check it out.

Alison: [laughs] Yes. Something else you should check out is this week’s chapter!

[Chapter revisit intro begins]

Dumbledore: Three turns should do it.

Michael: Chapter Revisit…

[Sounds of time turning back]

Michael: Prisoner of Azkaban

Fred and George: Chapter 10.

Harry: I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Fred and George: “The Marauder’s Map.” [laughs]

[Sound of pages turning]

[Chapter revisit intro ends]

Alison: Devastated by the loss of his beloved Nimbus 2000, worried over his Grim sighting, and most of all, haunted by his encounter with the Dementors, Harry recovers after his first lost Quidditch match. Professor Lupin has returned to teaching, much to the joy of his students, and Harry asks his favorite professor to teach him how to repel Dementors. Before that, however, Christmas is coming and with it, a Hogsmeade trip. Luckily for Harry, the Weasley twins have a special surprise for him: the handiwork of Messrs. Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs. The Marauder’s Map leads Harry to Hogsmeade where he, Ron, and Hermione have a wonderful afternoon until they chance to overhear a discussion that will change how Harry sees his situation with mass murderer Sirius Black.

Kat: Okay, first thing – and I know this has nothing to do with anything – the word “Messrs.” always screws me up.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Katy: Me too! What is that?

Kat: Isn’t it just a weird plural? I don’t know. I find that to be a very odd plural. “Messrs.”?

Alison: It is, but it’s also fun to say.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Yeah, it’s funny in this context. It makes significantly more sense than if you were like, “Messrs. Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan.” You know what I mean?

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: It just sounds almost derogatory in that context. I don’t know.

Kristen: Yeah, I’d only ever say it referring to these four people and that’s it.

Kat: Exactly.

Alison: I feel like it’s an antiquated word, which makes sense for the four of them to be like, “Get our monocles out, guys,” and being dumb.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Yeah, you’re right. Let’s see, I’m going to… Oh yeah, it says: “Noun. British. Dated.” So yeah, nobody really uses that anymore.

Alison: Yeah.

Kat: That’s the way J.K. Rowling… Oh my gosh, the word was invented in 1779.

Katy: Whoa.

Kat: Oh, okay. It’s an abbreviation of the French messieurs, I guess? I can’t pronounce it…

Alison: Yeah, that makes sense.

Kat: … but it’s the plural of monsieur, however you say that too. French is not a good language for me.

[Alison laughs]

Kat: Yeah, so I guess that makes sense that it’s derived from a French word. But that is all. That is our vocabulary lesson for this episode.

Alison: Yay! We’ve learned something. [laughs] Well, let’s dive into the details, then. So we start out this chapter with Harry in the hospital wing. He just lost his Quidditch match against Hufflepuff, which I somehow forgot happened until I was rereading this and I was like, “Oh, yeah.” But the first thing I noticed in the first couple paragraphs is [that] we get some really great friendship mentions. There’s a line where Ron and Hermione never leave Harry’s side except for at night…

Kat: Bull[censored].

Alison: What?

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Hermione doesn’t go to class?

Alison: Okay…

Kristen: Isn’t it the weekend?

Alison: Yeah, I think so, because he leaves on a Monday.

Kat: Wait, it does not say it’s the weekend.

Alison: Yeah! Because he leaves the hospital on a Monday.

Kristen: So he wasn’t there a whole week.

Kat: Hold on; we’re going to pull this up.

Alison: [laughs] We’re going to read this.

Kristen: Yeah, because he does leave on a Monday. So I figured it was a weekend.

Alison: It says, “It was a relief to return on Monday to the noise and bustle of the main school.” Yeah, “Madam Pomfrey insisted on keeping Harry in the hospital wing…”

Alison and Kat: “… for the rest of the weekend.”

Alison: Yeah.

Kat: But we don’t know what day he actually got in there. It wasn’t necessarily a Friday, was it?

Alison: It probably was.

Kristen: Yeah. I would have assumed it was Saturday morning. That’s how I always read it.

Kat: Keep chatting. I’m going to look for a date.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Okay. So we get them only leaving at night. Wood comes to cheer him up, despite Wood’s own disappointment, devastation, [and] everything. I love Oliver. And we get a cute moment I forgot about of Ginny, [who] comes and gives him a card.

Kristen: Oh yeah.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kat: That is cute. Another!

Alison: That was like, “Aww!” Cute little Ginny with her little crush on Harry. Anyway, those are just some cute moments that I had forgotten about. But the biggest thing we get into at the beginning of this chapter is that we’re flashing back to Harry and his encounter with the Dementors. Harry realizes he’s hearing Lily’s voice when he gets attacked by Dementors; he figures that out while he’s in the hospital wing. And I think – correct me if I’m wrong – is this our first glimpse into that Halloween, that scene?

Katy: I don’t believe so because I was just rereading Sorcerer’s Stone recently, and he says he has the dream where he sees the flash of green light.

Alison: Oh yeah, that’s right. Okay.

Katy: But he doesn’t hear anything then. It’s just the green light and he’s wondering what could possibly have caused all that green light.

Alison: That’s true. Okay. But it’s still an interesting thing because this is the first time I really noticed just how slowly throughout this whole series this one scene, this one night, we get layered on until we get that whole thing in Deathly Hallows from Voldemort’s perspective. But it’s just interesting that it’s this one moment, and we only get bits and pieces.

Kristen: Yeah, and it’s just really hearing the voice of it, what happened sound-wise that night.

Kat: Nothing to do with our current conversation…

[Alison laughs]

Kat: … but the chapter doesn’t actually give a day. It just says, “Harry woke up extremely early the next morning.”

Alison: Okay.

Kat: That’s all it says. Although, then it says that the team came to visit him on Sunday morning.

Alison: Okay.

Kat: I mean, that’s it.

Alison: So I feel like Quidditch is always Saturday mornings.

Kat: Maybe, I guess. That’s fine.

Alison: But I could be wrong. Anyway, Lupin is back in Defense Against the Dark Arts. This is just a side note, but this is one of my favorite random bits of dialogue from students. I don’t know why, but the “Two rolls of parchment” just cracks me up every single time.

Katy: And it’s repeated twice.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: Yeah. They’re like, “There [are] all these things that Snape did and he wouldn’t listen to us,” and there’s that one kid who’s like, “Two rolls of parchment!” Like they’ve never heard of…

Kat: Don’t they have DADA with the Slytherins?

Alison: I don’t know. Do they this year?

Kat: I don’t know.

Katy: I don’t know either.

Kat: Maybe it’s just the Gryffindors. I don’t know. I was just trying to think of who would be whining about two rolls of parchment.

Alison: [laughs] For some reason I think I always just associated it with either Dean or Seamus.

Kristen: That’s exactly what I was about to say.

Katy: Really?

Kristen: I always thought Seamus was the one going, “Two rolls of parchment!”

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: Yes, I guess that works for me. Headcanon accepted.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: But anyway, we also find out that Hermione has finished said werewolf essay. [laughs]

Kristen: Of course. [laughs]

Alison: So obviously, she knows about Lupin by now. So my question is: Why hasn’t she shown any more signs of being suspicious? She hasn’t indicated at all, [at] any rate, that there’s something weird going on here with Lupin after doing this essay.

Katy: But I could see that with her, like with her whole elf rights thing. I could see her seeing him as a minority, and she’s read up on the history, I’m sure, of werewolves and their rights and having to be on this registry now, etc. So I could see her, if she did realize that, not wanting to tell. It is kind of weird she doesn’t even tell Harry and Ron, but [she] just want[s] to keep that to herself to make sure that his secret does not get out because she knows others will judge him, even though she herself probably doesn’t judge him at all. Especially being Muggle-born, she would not have that prejudice against werewolves. So personally, that’s why I think she hasn’t said anything.

Kat: Also, if Hermione truly did read up on the history and stuff – and I totally believe you there – wouldn’t she have read about Lupin’s father?

Alison: Oh, yeah.

Kat: Wasn’t he involved in the werewolf registry stuff? Am I wrong?

Katy: I thought the registry was years before that.

Alison: I’ve got to look it up now.

Katy: I can’t remember which year, but I was thinking it was at least decades.

Alison: So yeah, his dad’s specialty was “Non-Human Spiritous Apparitions,” so poltergeists, Boggarts, and “other strange creatures…” Meeting his wife… blah, blah, blah…

Kat: [reading from Pottermore] “Lyall Lupin was among those asked to join the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, which he did gladly. It was here that Lyall came face-to-face with a werewolf called Fenrir Greyback… The Werewolf Registry was badly maintained.” Yeah. Let’s see…

Alison: And then Lyall insulted him, didn’t he? And then that’s why…

Kat: [continues reading from Pottermore] “Lyall, generally a mild-mannered man, grew angry. He described werewolves as ‘soulless, evil, deserving nothing but death.’ The committee ordered Lyall out of the room; the head of the committee apologized to the Muggle tramp and Greyback was released.” So he was definitely on the committee.

Katy: Okay, because that’s why he targeted Remus, right?

Alison and Kat: Yeah.

Katy: But I think the registry was already around before then. It was just not being maintained adequately, apparently. [laughs]

Alison: Yeah. Okay.

Kat: Right. And that’s all from Pottermore, for everybody listening, just for the record.

Alison: But Hermione is very cautious, especially right now. So what I don’t get is, if she doesn’t know Lupin is getting Wolfsbane Potion, why isn’t she concerned for everybody’s safety?

Kat: Well, she must have assumed that that’s why he was out sick.

Kristen: Yeah, because she’s been reading up on it.

Kat: She probably looked at the star charts – or the moon phases, sorry – and was like, “Oh, all right, I get this now.” And Lupin has never given Hermione a reason to doubt him either.

Alison: That’s true.

Kat: Because they don’t know that Lupin and Sirius were friends… are friends. And so, just like Katy said, she’s giving him the benefit of the doubt because she knows so much about werewolves and the SPEW stuff and the likes.

Kristen: And his character.

Kat: Yeah, and his character.

Alison: Okay.

Kat: But I still think… if she did do all that research, I bet Lupin’s dad was in there somewhere. That may have helped inform her opinion.

Katy: Yeah, that’s true.

Kat: We may never know. Well, we can guess. We can kind of know.

Katy: We’re like Dumbledore that way. We make educated guesses that are usually right.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Yes, indeed. I like that. That is why he is the figurehead of the show, I suppose, right?

Alison: We’re actually going to get to something about that in a little bit. Because listening to the last time we talked about this chapter, there were some interesting points made from information we didn’t know yet. But speaking of flashing back to Episode 24, Kat, you actually mentioned in that episode Lupin’s restraint when he finds out from the kids that Snape set a werewolf essay. And Laura actually made a really interesting point where she asked if this was Lupin having learned to control the wolf part of himself and if that helps him control his emotions and his reactions to things. What do we think?

Katy: Has he ever really shown a temper, though?

Kristen: No. [laughs] I think it’s just his character. Yeah, I don’t think… If anything, throughout the whole series it takes a lot to make him upset, I feel like. I think that’s just his personality. Not everything has to be tied back to a werewolf. [laughs]

Kat: Plus, I obviously don’t remember exactly what I said on that episode, but I feel like Lupin smiles to himself in that moment, if I remember correctly. He’s probably just like, “Good old Snape trying to out me.”

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Kat: It’s just like, “You little bastard,” basically.

[Kristen laughs]

Kat: Because Lupin has that… I’m not sure what the right word for it is. It’s not sarcastic and it’s not… I’m not sure.

Alison: He’s kind of wry.

Kat: Yeah, there you go. Right, that odd sense of humor, so to say. I feel like that’s what he’s doing in that moment. It is funny, though. It’s so weird and kind of beautiful to go back and talk about this again. And since we have so much information since five years ago, it’s great. Because the Lupin backstory…

Alison: Hadn’t come out yet.

Kat: … came out after this on Pottermore, right? It hadn’t been out yet. Right.

Alison: It was really funny, actually, listening to it because there were a couple of times where people were like, “Are we going to get a Lupin backstory? Because I really want to know this.”

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: And I was like, “There it is, right there.”

Kat: See, that was when Pottermore listened to the show and gave us what we asked for.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Exactly.

Kristen: That’s why they copied us.

Kat: Oh, burn.

Kristen: Which they’re still doing to this day.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Speaking of Lupin, still, we get this nice moment with Lupin and Harry, and there were a couple of things I just really honed in on this time. First of all, obviously Lupin mentions that the Whomping Willow was planted the year he came to Hogwarts. Which… it seems so obvious looking back; it’s like, “Duh.” Things are connected.

Kristen: I have a coworker who’s reading the books for the first time with his son.

Kat: Oh, such a beautiful thing.

Alison: Ooh.

Kristen: Yeah, and he tells me all about it and he just finished Prisoner of Azkaban. So I remember him coming… It was a few weeks ago. He’ll just stop me in the middle of the office, and he was like, “The Whomping Willow, what? What? Lupin, I can’t believe it. It’s all connected. How is it all connected? This is amazing.” And he just goes off, and I was like, “Right?” And again, rereading it, we know it’s so obvious, duh, but to hear his perspective of it again, he’s like, “They’ve mentioned it throughout the series, this Whomping Willow, and I had no idea what was hiding under it. This is so amazing.” So it’s really cool to see that.

Alison: Ooh.

Kat: That is such a beautiful thing, reading the books for the first time. It’s funny; I go back and forth all the time. Would I want my memory modified so that I could read them again and enjoy them but lose the last five years of conversations?

Alison: Yeah, exactly.

Kristen: That would be tough.

Kat: Do I want to lose all that stuff just to enjoy the books again? Or can I continue to enjoy them through conversations like this in a whole new light, which is essentially for the first time? I go back and forth all the time.

Kristen: Yeah, it’s heartwarming, him telling me all about it. I’m like, “Ohh.” I just picked up Goblet of Fire because that’s what they’re reading. So I’m now keeping up with them so we can discuss it chapter by chapter.

Alison: [laughs] Nice. That’s cute.

Kat: I’m sorry. That’s exciting, though. That’s cool.

Alison: Aww.

Katy: I wonder, too, with this tree, did they magically make it grow faster? Because trees are usually pretty small when you plant them.

Alison: [laughs] I know, right?

Kristen: They just planted the whole thing there. [laughs]

Alison: What did they say to everybody? They were like, “Hey kids, so this year there’s a murderous tree on the grounds. Don’t touch it.”

[Katy laughs]

Kristen: But not surprising. They have a whole frigging forest full of it, so they’re like, “Meh.”

Alison: But how did no one question that? How [were] there no sixth years or something that were like, “Uh… why?” What did they tell them? Was Sprout like, “It’s my new pet project,” or whatever?

Kat: Maybe.

Kristen: It could have been, yeah, learning something new.

Kat: What lie did they tell? They also would have had to make the secret passage that year.

Alison: Man, summer construction at Hogwarts. Can you imagine?

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: That’s why they send everyone home.

Kat: Well, think about the pumpkins that Hagrid grew. There’s obviously some sort of charm or super special Miracle-Gro that they can give the tree and make it grow quickly.

[Alison laughs]

Katy: Yeah, fair enough.

Alison: Super special Miracle-Gro.

Kristen: Yeah, they just needed a summer.

Kat: Right, which is really only six weeks at Hogwarts because they don’t end school until the end of June. Yeah, six or eight weeks.

Kristen: That magical water.

Katy: That path makes sense, but when we find out about all the rest of them with the Map that we’ll talk about later on, I always just wonder why are they there in the first place? Who came up with that idea? Why? That’s obviously a hazard, potentially.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Other Remus Lupins with other different things, maybe. Who knows?

Katy: Oh man, yeah.

Alison: We’ll get there, though. We’ll get to the Map.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kat: We will.

Alison: We’re going to have a nice, long conversation about the Map. Also, for some reason this time, I connected this interesting line of this idea of horrors and Lupin. So there’s this line where [Lupin] says,

“[…] ‘There are horrors in your past that the others donÕt have.’ A ray of wintery sunlight fell across the classroom, illuminating LupinÕs gray hairs and the lines on his young face.”

And for some reason it just really stood out to me this time. He’s talking about horrors and he’s talking to Harry about Harry’s horrors. But the fact that we get this super distinct description of Lupin right after that was just so… There [are] just so many indications in this chapter that something’s going on with Lupin that I was like, “How have I missed all of these in the past?” [laughs]

Kat: Yeah, I’m not really sure what Lupin was going to tell Harry in that moment, but I wish that he had. I wish he had the chance to say whatever he was going to say. I feel like he was probably going to lay out his soul a little bit and give Harry probably a little too much information maybe, which [is] obviously why we didn’t get it because then the entire plot would have unfolded in front of us in Chapter 10. But it would be nice to know what was going to happen in that moment.

Katy: [Are] you talking about the sudden movement, wanting to grab his shoulder thing?

Kat: Mhm.

Katy: Okay, got you.

Alison: I feel like it’s a discussion that’s been talked about a lot, but what was he going to do? Was he going to tell him about James and Sirius? I just want to know what he was going to say and what he was going to do in that moment.

Katy: I thought it was possibly more of a comforting thing, too, because it’s just after Harry says he’s hearing his mother die. He would want to reach out and just give him some kind of comfort like, “Oh, I’m so sorry. That’s horrible. I wish we had a closer relationship so that you could…” [Harry] is trusting him in this moment to tell him this, but they’re not that close yet. I feel like [Lupin] just wants to give [Harry] some love.

Kristen: Yeah, like, “I feel your pain too, but we’re not close there, so I want to share this moment with you, but at the same time you have no idea who I am, so I’m going to step back.”

Alison: Do you think this is the moment [where] the filmmakers got the idea to play up Lily and Remus’s friendship?

Kat: That’s funny; I was just going to ask you.

[Alison laughs]

Kat: That’s a movie-ism, right?

Alison: Yeah, yeah.

Kat: Him mentioning Lily and all that stuff, that does not happen in the books.

Alison: No.

Kat: Right, okay.

Alison: I mean, you assume they’re friends because he and James were friends, but…

Kristen: They hung out all the time, yeah.

Kat: So yes, I do think that this is the moment where the filmmakers got that idea.

Alison: I never connected that before. Huh.

Kat: Ta-da!

Alison: Yay!

[Everyone laughs]

Katy: For our next trick…

[Everyone laughs]

Katy: So this quote jumped out at me this read-through. It says Dementors are supposed to drain a wizard of his powers if he is left with them too long. And I’m like, “Okay, does that mean drain them forever or just temporarily?” Because we don’t really see that happen to any of the prisoners, none of the Death Eaters. They seem to come out of there with their full powers intact. But if forever is a possibility – because my brain is always going to Fantastic Beasts these days as well – I’m thinking maybe this is what was done to Grindelwald, and maybe they literally stripped him of his magical powers so that he could never escape Nurmengard. So what are your thoughts on that?

Kristen: I thought it was going along the lines with the Dementor’s Kiss; then that would be the ultimate drain of all their powers forever if they went ahead and went that far.

Katy: Yeah, I agree with that, but this doesn’t necessarily mention the Kiss. It just says, “left with them too long.” So it’s a little ambiguous.

Alison: I don’t think it’s permanent.

Kat: Uh, I do. Because it goes on to say… I have to pull up my quote now. Because I was listening to this this morning, and it goes on to say that the Dementor will continue to feed off the prisoners. Hold on, I need to find the exact quote.

Kristen: So how long has Grindelwald been in there? I can’t remember.

Katy: Well, he’s been in there since 1945, hasn’t he?

Kristen: Yeah, okay. So I would say, yeah, drained over time that… Yeah, it’s going to be gone forever, but just because he’s been in there for so long.

Katy: Although we don’t even know that there are Dementors at Nurmengard.

Alison: I don’t think there are.

Katy: Or maybe this was just a special situation where they stuck him in a room with one for a really long time.

Kristen: Because you have to have all hope lost, too, I think. Because Sirius Black had many of them on him all the time, but that didn’t drain him out because he still had hope and everything like that. So I think once you’ve lost your hope, then maybe it drains it even more because there’s nothing there for you to cling on to anymore, so they’re taking it all.

Kat: I think I must have heard oddly or wasn’t quite listening this morning. Because I think it’s that quote that you just read, Katy, that I remember listening to and thinking, “What?” [That] they drain them forever, they keep them alive so that the Dementors can have food, is almost the way…

Katy: Oh gosh!

Kat: … I heard it this morning. That’s what I was thinking, again, when I listened to it, but there’s always a possibility that I listened to it wrong… heard it incorrectly, I mean.

Katy: That’s a possibility, though. There are these beings and how else do you control them, other than giving them food at this one location and saying, “Okay, you can drain these people because they’re bad people”? But if they just let them run wild, so to speak… which some of them, I’m sure, do. But if they just kept running wild and reproducing, then the whole world would be full of Dementors. I don’t know. I’m really curious how they came to be in the first place. Was this a spell gone wrong, or did they just naturally occur?

Kat: Well, don’t they breed out of despair, right? Isn’t that how it works?

Alison: Yeah, fog and mold. There’s something about that.

Katy: Yeah, they stay in dank, dark places.

Kat: So I imagine that it’s like a Peeves-type situation, where one day they just [snaps] into existence. Maybe, I don’t know, during… God, it would’ve been hundreds of years ago, right? So what giant historical event was hundreds of years ago? Something where there was a ton of depression or… When did the Statute of Secrecy go into place? Was that the 1700s?

Katy: I think it was 1700s.

Alison: But the 1800s, wouldn’t that be the Industrial Revolution and stuff?

Kat: Maybe. I was just trying to think of some time that wizards would feel oppressed.

Alison: Oh, well, no, I’m saying that [with the] Industrial Revolution, things got gross in England.

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: Working conditions were terrible…

Kristen: Tons of fog and…

Alison: … and there was so much smog and fog and…

Kat: Well, the Dementors create the fog. They aren’t born from fog. They create the fog.

Alison: When was that huge fog that killed people? Was that in the 1950s or something? There was a really bad smog in London.

Kat: I think that’s a book. [laughs] Kidding.

Alison: No, no, no, no. That’s a real thing.

Kat: I know, I was kidding.

Alison: Oh, okay.

Kat: That is a book, though.

Alison: I was like, “That’s a real thing that happened. I know it is.”

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Katy: I don’t remember when that was either.

Alison: But I think it was the 1950s, actually.

Kat: Okay. Well, they would’ve been around long before that.

Katy: Maybe [they were] born out of the Black Plague or something.

Kat: Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Some point in history where…

Kristen: There’s so much death going on and despair.

Kat: Yeah, death and depression and all of that. Okay, so the International Statute of Secrecy was 1692. Oh wait, no. Sorry. Instituted in 1689, and put into effect in 1692.

Kristen: I wonder if there’s anything on Pottermore about Dementors?

Kat: All it says… The Lexicon just says that when they breed, they create a mist which permeates everything, and that’s it, really. We don’t have a whole lot of information from them. So yeah, I’m going to say that it came from something like that. That’s my headcanon, that something like the [Black] Plague or the oppression after the International Statute of Secrecy, things like that… People became depressed and sad and the Dementors started to become a thing.

Katy: Fair enough.

Kat: Maybe they were individual Dementors in the first place, and then they got super hungry and started to roam and suck life from other people.

Alison: Oh geez! Ugh!

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: Because the person that they came to be for in the first place had died or become happy for some reason, and the Dementor was just like, “Well, now what do I do?” So he found somebody else to suck.

Katy: Whoa.

Alison: [whispers] Whoa.

Katy: That’s heavy, man.

Kat: I try.

Alison: [laughs] Well, let’s move on to something a little bit lighter, then.

[Alison, Kat, and Katy laugh]

Alison: So Harry asks Lupin to teach him how to repel the Dementors, obviously with a Patronus. We don’t use the word “Patronus” yet. But Lupin brushes him off, and he tries to convince Harry not to do that. Why?

Katy: Yeah, he says, “I’m no expert…” Oh, what is the exact quote? It was a good quote.

Kat: “I don’t pretend to be an expert at fighting Dementors, Harry. Quite the contrary.”

Katy: Yeah, the “Quite the contrary,” that’s what got me.

Kat: So if you read into everything we just talked about – the depression, Dementors, whatever – Lupin is basically saying here, “I have nothing to be happy about. I’m not good at fighting off this depression.” That’s basically what he’s saying, using “Muggle words” right there, so that makes sense to me.

Katy: It does to me too.

Kat: Obviously, he still agrees to do it eventually, because I think Lupin sees something in Harry that other people probably don’t recognize, an inherent goodness. And I think, again, that’s where the filmmakers got that whole Lily stuff. But I think in this moment Lupin is just like, “I have nothing to be happy about. I’m not good at that. I’m the wrong person to be asking.”

Katy: And perhaps also he thought he would need to show Harry a Patronus, and if he showed him his, and it was a wolf, that might clue Harry in.

Kristen: Or what he was, like his moon and stuff like that. Always seeing the moon.

Alison: Well, that’s his Boggart, yeah.

Kristen: But to teach Harry how to do it, [just] like the Patronus, it would have to show him what his worst fear is too.

Alison: Because doesn’t it say somewhere that he avoids doing a corporeal Patronus because he’s so ashamed it’s a wolf, even though it has nothing to do with him being a werewolf?

Kat: I don’t know. I would have to find that quote. I don’t know.

Alison: I’m pretty sure Pottermore said…

Kat: I don’t remember that.

Alison: Ugh, now I’m going to have to look it up, it’s going to bother me.

[Katy laughs]

Kat: So basically, this is similar, but not as ridiculous as the theory if you replaced “wand” with “penis.” If you replace the word “Dementor” with “depression” in most of the series, it really takes a very different angle, which is wonderful, actually. [It] gives you a whole new insight, and I think this is an important moment to think about something like that. Because that’s what Harry is struggling with at that moment too. He hears his mother, and it just kills him. There’s a sadness – I’m pretty sure it’s described somewhere – in there [and] he’s just never felt something like that before.

Alison: I found the quote. It says, “Remus’s Patronus is never revealed in the Potter books, even though it is he who teaches Harry the difficult and unusual art of producing one. It is, in fact, a wolf – an ordinary wolf, not a werewolf. Wolves are family-oriented and non-aggressive, but Remus dislikes the form of his Patronus, which is a constant reminder of his affliction. Everything wolfish disgusts him, and he usually produces a non-corporeal Patronus deliberately, especially when others are watching.” That’s so sad.

Kat: Was that…?

Alison: It’s on the Pottermore information about Remus, which is sad.

Kat: But we have lots of Lupin love on this show.

Alison: We do. That’s what makes his story so good.

Kat: Even though he’s depressing AF, we love him.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Katy: You’re not wrong. But we do love him anyway.

Alison: But here’s something not depressing AF: Christmas. [laughs]

Katy: Yay, Christmas.

Kristen: Yay, and his friend is staying behind. [laughs]

Alison: Yeah, [that] is my question, though. What the heck? How did Ron convince Molly to just let Ron stay at school? Why were they not like, “Bring Harry to the Burrow”?

Kristen: Because they didn’t want to endanger him.

Alison: Oh, I forgot about that.

Kristen: Isn’t the safest place supposed to be Hogwarts? And they know about them, so Molly is probably like, “Ron, stay.”

Katy: Mhm, good point.

Alison: But all the other kids are coming home.

Kristen: He’s Harry’s best friend.

Kat: Fred, George, and Percy all left, right? Yeah.

Kristen: “But Harry has to stay because he’s at the safest place, so Ron, why don’t you keep him company because we don’t want him to feel left out?”

Kat: But why couldn’t he go to the Burrow? Sirius Black doesn’t know that he’s friends with Ron…

Alison: The Weasleys. And Molly and Arthur will be there. They’re fully-grown wizards.

Kat: And there’s been plenty of protection added to the Burrow before. Well, there will be after this.

Katy: I don’t know. He might know it by now if he and Crookshanks, depending on their level of communication… because we don’t know how much they’re able to communicate, but they are able to in some capacity. If they’re already communicating at this point, maybe he does know that Ron is Harry’s best friend?

Kristen: Well, he knows it, but Molly and Arthur don’t know it.

Alison: And also, Sirius’s whole point is to get Scabbers…

Katy: Exactly.

Alison: … and Scabbers would have gone home too. That would have screwed up the plot. Because he would have had to have… Okay, yeah. That answers questions.

[Katy laughs]

Alison: That’s why they don’t go to the Burrow this year. Okay. [laughs] Well, anyway…

Kristen: I just assumed because Dumbledore is there, that’s why. I was going to say.

Kat: Plus, then you don’t get that beautiful scene with 13 people sitting at the table.

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Alison: That is a good one.

Kristen: I wanted to keep reading on but didn’t last night.

Alison: [laughs] But then we get to the namesake of this chapter. It is the Marauder’s Map, which is the coolest thing, I think. One of the coolest things. [laughs] [Funnily] enough, on Episode 24, one of the biggest things everyone was asking for was Pottermore information about the Marauder’s Map. And guess what, guys? We got it.

Kat: And geez, guess what? They obviously released some, right?

Katy: They did.

Alison: [laughs] Yes. So listeners, you can go read that whole thing if you want by yourself. But just some highlights… One of the biggest charms we find out about that is used on the Map is the Homonculous Charm?

Kat: That’s right.

Alison: [laughs] I’m probably saying that all horribly.

Kat: No, you’re not. Homonculous.

Alison: Oh, Homonculous? Okay. That’s the one that tracks people and gives it the ability to show where people are in real time on the Map.

Kat: And the one that repels Snape forever, by the way.

Alison: So they specifically set up the Map to specifically insult Snape should he ever come across it.

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: So we got that for sure, [laughs] that it specifically insults just Snape. We find out that the Map was taken from the Marauders – from the original owners – in their final year at Hogwarts. They over-reached themselves on one of their night-time wanderings. And it says that Snape probably tipped Filch off as to what they were doing, so… Snape’s fault.

Katy: Sounds about right.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: But they just left it there. Their priorities changed in their final months at school. Obviously, bigger things were happening. They didn’t need a map of Hogwarts, so it got left there. Another big thing that I thought was cool was J.K. Rowling’s thoughts on the Map. It’s funny because she regrets it but is also sentimental about it.

Kat: Did she actually use the word “regret”? Because let’s not go down that rabbit hole again.

[Katy laughs]

Alison: No, no. Sorry. Not “regret,” but… I’ll just read what she actually says.

Kat: Okay. The “r” word is no longer allowed when talking about J.K. Rowling.

[Katy laughs]

Alison: No, it’s not. What she actually said… Here’s the quote: “The Marauder’s Map subsequently became something of a bane to its true originator (me), because it allowed Harry a little too much freedom of information. I never showed Harry taking the Map back from the empty office of (the supposed) Mad-Eye Moody, and I sometimes regretted that I had not capitalized on this mistake to leave it there. However, I like the moment where Harry watches Ginny’s dot moving around the school in Deathly Hallows, so on balance I am glad I let Harry reclaim his rightful property.” [fake cries]

Kat: Yeah, that’s one of my favorite moments, too, actually. I love it.

Alison: [sniffs] Me too.

Kat: The way the Map is used in Hallows always makes me smile and also cry a little bit when he’s watching Ginny move around. But thank you for rewording and reading that quote, and not using the word “regret.”

[Kristen laughs]

Alison: Yes. I’m sorry.

Kat: It’s okay. [laughs]

Alison: And we do know that James Sirius, Harry’s son, steals the Map from his dad’s desk. So we do know [that] it’s getting passed on.

Kat: Where did that information come in?

Alison: Where did she say that?

Kat: Yeah, I’m pretty sure I know where it is, and that piece is probably not true.

Alison: Yeah, it is.

Katy: I think that’s a Cursed Child thing, isn’t it?

Alison: No, I swear I heard that before.

Kat: I don’t think so.

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Alison: [sighs] Now I’ve got to look it up. Yeah, “While Harry did not give the Marauder’s Map to any of his children, J.K. Rowling said his son James Sirius probably stole it from his desk in the grand tradition of his Marauder namesakes and the Weasley Twins.” What is BLC? That’s what the Lexicon is saying.

Kat: Click it. It usually lets you click it.

Alison: There’s not a link.

Kat: On the BLC, there’s not a link?

Katy: Oh, that’s probably Bloomsbury Live Chat?

Alison: That’s it.

Kat: Yeah, that could be it.

Alison: I knew it. Ha.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Justice for me. It’s not something from Cursed Child, but I’m right.

Katy: Well done, Alison, well done.

Alison: Anyway, moving on to other owners of the Map… This question always bothers me: Why do Fred and George say they don’t need the Map? Because it seems like the biggest asset of the Map is being able to see where people are. So okay, we have this quote from Pottermore that I guess answers it, but I’m not happy with this answer. So from Pottermore, it says, “It was a mark of their high esteem for Harry Potter and their belief that he stood in need of assistance with a destiny none of them yet fully understood.”

Kat: Yeah, right?

Alison: That doesn’t tell me why would they not just tell Harry about the secret passages?

Kat: It’s weird because Fred and George are – this is going to come across harsh – slightly selfish people, and a lot of the things that they do benefit themselves. And they are very self-sufficient and “One for all and two for us,” basically. So I always did find it a little odd that they were so willing to just hand this over to Harry. However, I think that they already have their sights set somewhere else, and making mischief at Hogwarts isn’t their goal anymore because they’ve already started to, I think, talk about the joke shop and their life after Hogwarts, and I think that they’re already developing and thinking beyond. So I’m not sure they care all that much about that type of stuff anymore.

Katy: Yeah, I would like it more if it were right after the Quidditch match, and Harry was in a really bad mood still and upset about his Nimbus and they gave it to him to cheer him up. But this is a bit removed from that incident, so yeah, it is a little odd. But we always have that question, too, of why did they never see Peter Pettigrew sleeping in Ron’s bed?

Kat: Ugh.

Katy: I don’t really think they looked at the people on it so much as they did to find the secret passages.

Kat: Yeah. Like I said, it was less about the other people and more about, “How can this map benefit us?” Because, again, I think that’s their motivations in life, how can they better themselves. That’s not a bad thing; it’s just who they are.

Kristen: And does it always show everybody? All the time?

Kat: Of every second, every day.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: [as Harry] “Brilliant! Where’d you get it?”

Kristen: I remember reading it this time around, and it was like, “Oh, and then Harry’s name popped up!” And I was like, “Why wouldn’t it have stayed there the whole time?”

Alison: Oh, no, you’re right.

Kat: It says “popped up”?

Alison and Kristen: Yeah. He appears.

Kristen: It’s like, “Oh, his name appears on it now.”

Alison: They’re in a room or something, aren’t they?

Kristen: He was by the statue.

Katy: Yeah, they went into a classroom right behind the statue.

Kristen: Yeah, and his name appeared on it.

Katy: Maybe he had just been looking somewhere else on the Map because he wasn’t sure where he was, and then he saw himself? I don’t know. I’m coming up with excuses.

Kristen: Or it only shows the people you want to see and not everybody?

Alison: But it shows Dumbledore, it shows Mrs. Norris, [and] it shows Peeves.

Kristen: Well, those are the people you’d want to know [are] there, right?

Alison: Oh! [gasps]

Kristen: So it only tells you the people who you want to see on there, and who you know.

Alison: Interesting.

Katy: Because it could get really crowded otherwise, I feel like.

Alison: Yeah, that’s true.

Kristen: Exactly. There’s way too many people, and you don’t want to know where that second year Hufflepuff is.

Katy: Maybe that’s why it doesn’t show Peter Pettigrew to the twins, because they’re never looking for him.

Alison: But no, that wouldn’t make sense, because Harry shows it later.

Katy: Yeah, you’re right. Never mind.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Is it like the Room of Requirement? It shows you who you need to see on the Map?

Kat: But wait a minute, where’s that quote? Because I just read the whole section and I didn’t find that.

Kristen: It’s when he’s going over to the statue. I don’t have my copy in front of me; hold on.

Alison: Yeah, he exits the room. Hold on.

Kat: Okay, so after Fred and George leave the room.

Katy: Because it shows him what to do to activate the statue so he can get into it.

Kat: Wait. Where is the statue? What floor are they on?

Katy: The third. They’re on the third level.

Alison: Is it?

Kat: All right, halfway down the third floor corridor. So maybe it’s because he was in a classroom? Or maybe they just weren’t looking in that area before, so Harry didn’t notice that his name was there.

Alison: Maybe.

Kristen: I don’t know. I never believed that it showed everybody there at all times.

Kat: Maybe it recognizes that the Map changed ownership?

Kristen: It said, “He pulled out the Map again, and saw to his astonishment that a new inked figure had appeared upon it labeled Harry Potter. This figure was standing exactly where the real Harry was standing.”

Alison: I feel like I would have to look at other examples of him looking at the Map to see if it’s showing everyone.

Kat: I understand what you’re saying, but I always thought that it showed every person at all times.

Alison: I did too.

Kristen: See, I never…

Kat: I read this as Harry was just noticing that for the first time.

Kristen: Gotcha.

Katy: I wonder if, typically, the person using it would not see themselves. Because why would they need to? They know where they are. Maybe he just popped up because it needed to show him how to use the statue.

Kat: Could be. Yeah, that’s a good explanation.

Alison: That’s an idea.

Kristen: I don’t know. I still don’t believe it shows everybody. That’s my canon. Because that’s way too many people on a map.

Kat: [sarcastically] Well, there [are] only 1,000 students at Hogwarts.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: That’s still a lot of people on a map.

Kat: But over seven floors of castle? It’s really not that many. Think about 1,000 people at a theme park.

Kristen: But you don’t want all those 1,000 people. You’re not trying to find all those thousand; you’re only trying to find specific people.

Kat: No, you’re right. But I don’t know. That’s a good question for Jo.

Kristen: Please answer!

Katy: And our listeners. You should definitely comment on this episode and let us know what you think.

Kat: Agreed, for sure.

Alison: Yeah. Well, follow Harry through the hump into the passageway, walk about an hour, which is a long time… [laughs]

Kat: Yeah, which is so long! That is dedication.

Katy: Right?

Alison: That’s horrible. And if you think of how many times he uses that passageway to get there, that’s horrible!

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: By the time he gets there…

Kristen: Everyone’s gone.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: … Ron and Hermione are going to be like, “Oh, we’re headed back to the castle.”

Alison: “We’re bored now.”

Kat: “See you there, buddy.”

Alison: But then we get to Honeydukes, which is heaven for anyone with a sweet tooth, aka me. [laughs] But here’s my thing: weird candy? Why are they selling blood lollipops and candy with cockroaches in them and Acid Pops that can burn holes in your tongue?

Kat: Okay, so Cockroach Clusters are a legit real thing.

Alison: Are they?

Kat: They sell all sorts of… yeah! There are places that sell all sorts of chocolate-covered bugs.

Kristen: I just got bacon cheddar cockroach candy at Universal for my nephews.

Kat: Oh yeah, at Jurassic Park, right?

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Oh, geez.

Kat: That’s right, I remember that.

Kristen: It’s real stuff.

Kat: But the blood lollipops and stuff, that’s weird.

Kristen: That’s a bit much.

Kat: They can’t be real blood… but are they real blood? Because I know it’s in the alternative choices section or something. What’s it called?

Katy: What was it, different tastes?

Kristen: Maybe you just feel a little anemic; you want something sweet…

[Everyone laughs]

Katy: Well, Hermione thinks that they’re for vampires. So maybe they are?

Alison: But Acid Pops? Because Ron says he got a hole burned in his tongue!

Katy: That’s messed up.

Alison: That seems a little serious.

Kristen: Yeah, that’s weird.

Katy: I feel like that would be something that the Weasley twins would sell at the joke shop.

Kristen: Yeah, that seems more of a joke shop one than “Here, have an Acid Pop, kids!”

[Katy laughs]

Alison: That’s just horrible.

Kristen: Go burn holes and have fun.

Alison: How do they fix a hole…?

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: Well, the ones that make you steam… and it says that the Peppermint Creams shaped like toads hop realistically in the stomach. That sounds horrible.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kristen: “Oh, I’ve got another stomach ache.” “What’s wrong?”

Kat: Horrible.

Kristen: “Oh, I’ve just got hopping toads.”

Kat: Why would you want something that hops in your stomach?

Katy: I agree.

Kristen: Go on a rollercoaster.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: That sounds horrible.

Katy: And the Exploding Bonbons. Do they explode as you’re eating them? I’m confused.

Kat: Hopefully that’s just filled candy that explodes when you bite into it, hopefully. But knowing the wizarding world, it’s going to be like Exploding Snap where it blows up in your mouth or something.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: Seamus-style.

Kristen: Forget about Pop Rocks; try one of these!

Katy: Oh, God!

Alison: Maybe that’s what it is. Maybe it is like Pop Rocks, Exploding Bonbons.

Kristen: To the max.

[Katy laughs]

Kat: Yeah. And I had forgotten that Droobles made permanent bubbles.

Kristen: Me too!

Katy: That sounds so fun.

Kat: I had forgotten that fact.

Alison: And Fizzing Whizbees are made of – what are they – Billywig stings?

[Kristen laughs]

Kat: Yeah. Gross.

Katy: Oh! I completely missed that.

Kat: Newt would not approve.

Alison: He does mention it in his book, though. [laughs]

Kat: Does he?

Alison: Yeah. That’s where that comes from, is Fantastic Beasts. Because then, I think, Ron writes on the side, “Last time I eat them, then.”

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: Got it.

Katy: Nice.

Kat: The OG. Gotcha.

Alison: Well, going past our weird candy… Hermione is worried about the Map and Ron is a little bit more jealous than anything, and we get this whole discussion about Sirius Black knowing this information. [laughs] Ooh, he does!

Kat: God, this is so out of character! Hermione is worried and Ron is jealous? What?

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: This is unlike anything that has ever happened before!

Alison: But I do like that we get this little moment where Harry and Hermione have a close enough friendship that Harry can tease her about turning him in and it’s not serious. He’s just like, “[Are] you going to turn me in?” And she’s like, “Ugh, no, but…”

Kristen: Obviously.

Alison: Aww. It’s just cute.

Katy: It is.

Kat: Yeah. You hear that, Harmony shippers? Great.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Alison: That’s not what I was saying. [laughs] And then – this is just a really funny thing that happened in Episode 24 – nobody except for Laura had had butterbeer before on that episode.

Kat: Wow!

Kristen: That’s crazy.

Kat: I didn’t make it to the Wizarding World until 2014.

Alison: Yeah! And she had only had the cold stuff, and so she was disappointed it was warm because in this chapter it says butterbeer is hot and foamy. So more hot butterbeer, all the time!

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: It’s my favorite.

Katy: Yummy in my tummy.

Kristen: Nobody was missing out on that crap.

[Kat laughs]

Alison: What?

Kat: Yeah, Kristen doesn’t like butterbeer.

Kristen: I hate butterbeer.

Alison: That’s right; I forgot.

Kristen: I’ve tried it hot, cold, frozen, homemade…

Kat: Have you had the ice cream?

Kristen: Ice cream… Yuck. All of it.

Alison: Aww. That’s sad.

Katy: Some people just don’t like butterscotch-flavored type things, so I get it.

Kristen: Yep, that’s me.

Alison: That’s okay, Kristen. I’ll eat all of yours because I love butterbeer.

Kristen: Go for it.

Kat: And don’t forget, everybody, if you come to MuggleNetLIVE! we’re buying butterbeer for everybody.

Alison: Yay! All the butterbeer!

Katy: I will be drinking it by the bucket.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kat: There’s talk of trying to put it into water bottles and smuggle it out for the next day.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Apparently it separates and doesn’t last very long.

Alison: Aww.

Kat: But you guys could come and try. It is free, unlimited butterbeer – just saying – and ice cream.

Kristen: I like the white stuff on top.

Alison: Yeah, that’s the foam.

Kristen: That’s the only part I’ll eat.

Alison: I’m pretty sure I’m going to have one attached to my hand at all times.

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: Just have someone follow you around when it’s empty. “Oh, thank you.”

Alison: “Give me another one!” [laughs] So times have changed since Episode 24.

Kat: Warm butterbeer is great, but I can’t drink a whole lot of it. I can have maybe half a cup and then I’m just done because it’s too rich.

Alison: Oh, it’s so good.

Kat: I love the frozen stuff, and I love the ice cream. The ice cream is amaze-balls.

Katy: Yes!

Kat: But the hot butterbeer is too rich for me. Again, it’s amazing; it’s really good. I just can’t drink a whole cup. I can’t do it. I have to have a really empty stomach.

Alison: See, I have a really high tolerance for rich stuff, so I down that and I’m good with everything.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: So yes, obviously if we’re talking about butterbeer, we make it to the Three Broomsticks. There’s just a lot of great stuff about the Three Broomsticks. I just have to say I love Hogsmeade; I think it’s one of the greatest settings Rowling created. It’s just fun to have this wizarding – but very picturesque – English village that’s all wizards. I’ve always loved Hogsmeade.

Katy: Yes. And now when I read this, all I can picture is Universal. [laughs]

Kat and Kristen: Yeah.

Alison: That’s true.

Katy: Because they did such a good job.

Kat: And I just noticed – and I think this is the only time it might be mentioned – that McGonagall orders a gillywater. Isn’t that weird?

Alison: Yeah!

Kat: I always wondered, where did they get gillywater? And there it is.

Kristen: Oh!

Alison: But I don’t think it’s just water here. [laughs] I’m pretty sure…

Kat: No, I don’t think it’s just water either. But still… I didn’t know where that reference came from since, for those who have not been, Universal has gillywater in the parks. It’s basically their bottled water. And I had no idea where that reference came from, and I guess here it is.

Katy: Indeed.

Kat: It just made me go “Aha!” today, that’s all.

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Alison: I do like all their different drinks; I think it’s really funny. McGonagall gets the gillywater, Flitwick gets the – what is it? – cherry soda with syrup…

Kat: “Cherry syrup and soda with ice and umbrella – Mmm!”

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Katy: He is the cutest! I love him.

Kat: Yeah. He’s cute.

Alison: And then we have Hagrid who gets the most alcoholic, and tons of it.

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Four pints of mulled mead, and red currant rum for the Minister.

Alison: Yeah. Which seems like…

Kat: We should analyze these drinks for a moment because I feel like that’s their personalities in their alcohol.

Alison: Exactly.

Katy: Yeah, actually.

Kat: McGonagall’s is small and simple, very straightforward. Hagrid’s is super over the top and a little drunk.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Flitwick’s is super sweet and very nice and has the little umbrella because – I don’t know – he’s just so gosh darn cute.

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Kat: And the red currant rum, I don’t know what that says about the Minister.

Kristen: I don’t even know what that is.

Kat: What’s a red currant? Is that like a cherry?

Alison: I think it’s a type of berry, isn’t it?

Katy: I think so.

Kristen: Oh, okay. Yeah, I had no idea what it was.

Alison: I know nothing about alcohol, so don’t ask me these questions.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Katy: The only reference I know of currant wine is from Anne of Green Gables.

[Alison laughs]

Katy: So I’m not really sure what a currant is, but I think it is a type of berry.

Kat: Oh, yeah. [reading the definition] “Shiny little berries that grow low on bushes, hanging from the branches like miniature gems.”

Katy: It sounds like a refined type of drink.

Kristen: Sounds like someone’s trying to be fancy.

Katy: Yeah, exactly.

Kat: [continues reading] “It has a tart flavor but with the same amount of approximate sweetness.” Let’s see… “It’s often served with lamb, or venison, turkey, and goose.”

Kristen: Yuck.

Katy: Where does it grow?

Kat: It is a British fruit…

Katy: Oh!

Kristen: Yep. [laughs]

Kat: [continues reading] “… relatively high content of organic acids and mixed polyphenols.”

[Alison laughs]

Kristen: Must be in those Acid Pops.

Kat: I was hoping that it would have some[thing] like, “And this fruit is inherently evil.”

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: But it just sounds like it’s very tart.

Katy: Well, now I’m really curious.

Alison: It sounds like it’s trying to be very posh.

Kristen: Yes, posh.

Kat: Yeah, I mean, it could be.

Alison: Which makes sense for Fudge because I feel like Fudge is always trying to come off as very posh, but he’s not that great in real life.

Katy: Oh yeah, it’s all for show. Speaking of show, I just have to point this out because I never paid attention to this before, but they notice that Rosmerta is wearing sparkly, turquoise high heel shoes.

[Kristen laughs]

Kat: Yeah! Go Rosmerta!

Katy: Right?

Kat: No wonder Ron has a crush on her.

Kristen: I was going to say, that’s why Ron loves her.

Katy: Yep. Must be.

Kat: Those ain’t your mama’s shoes.

[Everyone laughs]

Katy: Although she is described as being a bit curvy, I believe it’s said, in that chapter. His mama is a bit curvy, so… [laughs] I don’t know why I’m putting those two together. Just never mind.

[Kristen laughs]

Kat: No, no, it’s okay. They say that you do end up crushing on people that are like your parents, so that makes sense. Ron likes them thick; it’s fine.

Alison: [laughs] Oh my gosh.

Katy: I always ruin the moment.

Alison: [laughs] Oh my gosh.

Kat: They don’t make them like this at Hogwarts! Come on.

Alison: Oh my gosh!

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: Now someone’s going to want that to be an episode.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Oh my gosh. Anyway…

Kat: That is cute, though, that little nod to the turquoise shoes.

Katy: Yeah, just a nice little detail that she didn’t have to include, but I like that she did. It just gives us a little more information to form about that character.

Alison: And then we get to the really important stuff that happens in this chapter, all here at the end, where we get this overheard conversation. So obviously, Hagrid has been telling everyone what’s happening at Hogwarts. So what else do we think the whole village knows about? [laughs]

Kat: Oh my gosh, everything. I think Hagrid… oh, I love him, but you just can’t… So Dumbledore implicitly trusts him to do anything, but I think there’s a reason Dumbledore doesn’t tell Hagrid stuff, and it’s because he’s got a big mouth. You might be able to trust Hagrid to run errands and to protect the Philosopher’s Stone and things like that, but don’t tell him what it is because he’ll just blab about it and tell everybody. I mean, look at what he did in the first book, so I’m not surprised that he’s blabbing about it here.

Alison: My other big question that comes from this is – I think we talked about this on Episode 24 a bit – how does Fudge talk to the Dementors? He says they’re furious, but how do they communicate? Because they don’t talk.

Kat: They must talk. I mean, we’ve had Jim the Dementor on the show before.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kat: He communicated just fine. I mean, they have mouths and they can [makes sucking noise].

[Alison laughs]

Kat: So they must be able to speak. They have tongues and everything, don’t they? You need a tongue to speak, so… Do Dementors have tongues?

Alison: I don’t know.

Kat: Me neither. Well, if you think about it like we were looking at them before, they are a manifestation of somebody’s depression. Because they have a human-esque form, maybe they’re like mermaids and they just have their own language. And Fudge has an interpreter or he speaks Dementoid.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Alison and Katy: Dementoid.

Kat: Maybe Vernon was right in some way about Dementoids.

[Kristen laughs]

Kat: So maybe that’s it. Maybe they just have their own language.

Katy: I could see that.

Kristen: I want to mention, too – it’s from a different book series – you know what they’re saying, but they’re actually talking through you without moving their mouth. They’re in their mind projecting what they are saying but without actually moving their lips, but you can hear exactly what they’re saying in your head.

Kat: Sure, I’d dig it. I don’t know. Maybe as Minister of Magic, that’s just something you learn. They give you the book on your first day. “Here you go. Chapter 7: ‘How to Talk with Dementors.'”

Kristen: “Understanding Dementors.”

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kristen: Exactly.

Kat: How did they come to be employed at the Ministry is my real question about Dementors.

Alison: I think we actually got that information. Let’s go back to Pottermore for the fifth time today.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Hey, sometimes you just need a little time.

Kristen: Hey, we have Pottermore this time, so we need to use it.

Alison: I know, right? So Ekrizdis, who was the insane practitioner of the worst kinds of Dark Arts who originally owned Azkaban…

“Alone in the middle of the ocean, he lured, tortured, and killed Muggle sailors, apparently for pleasure, and only when he died, and the Concealment Charms he had cast faded away, did the Ministry of Magic realize that either island or building existed. Those who entered to investigate refused afterwards to talk of what they had found inside, but the least frightening part of it was that the place was infested with Dementors.”

So they were already there.

Katy: Oh, maybe that’s where they originated.

Alison: [continues reading] “Many in authority thought Azkaban an evil place that was best destroyed. Others were afraid of what might happen to the Dementors infesting the building if they deprived them of their home. The creatures were already strong and impossible to kill.”

So basically, they were already there.

Kat: Because they are manifestations of the people. I’m telling you, guys.

Alison: Oh man, that’s creepy.

Katy: Yeah, so even after the person that manifested them – so to speak – dies, they stick around?

Kat: Right, because they now have life. Because they are alive. I mean, they are legit alive.

Alison: Yeah, and then they breathe, though. So they’re…

Kat: It’s like that toad that was brought to Australia. Nobody wanted it there, but then it started to make a home for itself and just kept breathing, and now it’s there. They’re just around. New ones can still pop out of people.

Kristen: I thought you said “a toe” and then I realized you said “toad.”

Alison: [laughs] So did I, and I was like…

Kat: Toad, like [imitates a toad].

Kristen: I was like, “Wait, what?” And then when you said they breathe, I was like, “Oh, toa-d.”

Kat: Toa-d, yes.

Alison: [laughs] I’m glad I’m not the only one who heard that because I was like, “Wait.”

Kristen: A toe? Damn, that’s a long way for it to go.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: How is it breathing? I don’t understand.

Kristen: You’ve got some weird stuff down under.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: We knew Australia was weird but… Yeah, so the Dementors don’t really need to manifest from people anymore. They still do, and I’m sure that that still happens, but they can breathe now.

Alison: Interesting.

Katy: If they’re impossible to kill, I feel like eventually they would just take over, wouldn’t they? Because there [are] always going to be depressed people.

Alison: Maybe they die.

Katy: I mean, I’m sure everybody is very happy after the war is over at the very end of the series, but there’s also a lot of grieving to be done at the same time.

Alison: Do you think they fade? Do they die and fade?

Kat: They might. They only breathe when they’re really happy, so if they’re just status quo-ing it, maybe they’re not breathing. I mean, they’ve got to be happy.

Alison: Maybe if they don’t have access to feed, then they just dissolve or something.

Katy: Yeah, because it doesn’t say that they are immortal. It just says they can’t be killed.

Alison: No, yeah. So maybe when Kingsley gets rid of all of them, they just shove them in a box or something, and then eventually they dissolve. I don’t know.

Kristen: [laughs] Get that weird skin flakey and melt away like Voldemort.

Alison: Oh, ew. Gross.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Dementor-fetti.

Alison: [laughs] Oh, God. Ugh.

Katy: Ugh!

Kat: Gross.

Alison: So then we got talking about Sirius. And Rosmerta says Sirius would have been the last person she thought that would have gone to the Dark side, which I think is the only time they use that phrase in these books. [laughs] But it just makes me giggle.

Katy: I don’t think it is. I feel like I’ve read that in another part. I could be wrong, but I think they used that.

Alison: Okay, whatever. It just makes me giggle every time. I don’t know why. So what do we think? Do we think Sirius is the last person who would have gone over?

Kat: Well, I think that he probably spent a significant amount of time in a place like that. Yeah, sure, he left his family’s home and went to live with James and then got his own place. But I imagine when James was out with Lily and all that stuff, Lupin was – I don’t know – doing whatever Lupin was doing, and Pettigrew was being a slimy little traitor, Sirius needed something to occupy his time, so he probably went and spent some time at the Three Broomsticks. And I would imagine – it’s just my headcanon here – that Rosmerta got to know him a little bit perhaps. And so maybe she’s slightly more well-informed than other people. And we will get to this because we have a whole series of episodes planned, and you know how I have feelings about Sirius Black, but I do think that he is inherently a decent person. I don’t know if you could say he’s the last person anyone would ever expect to go to the “Dark side,” but…

Katy: Maybe she was just equating him with James since they were inseparable and such good friends. So she just figures James would definitely never go Dark, so clearly Sirius wouldn’t either.

Kristen: Yeah. No, how I played it out is that they were always together, so she probably knew what his upbringing was and how much he changed and was always with James that [she] would never imagine he would go back to be like his family.

Kat: And also it could be in reference to the fact that Sirius was supposedly the one who gave up James and Lily, and I’m sure, partially, Rosmerta is talking about that as well, that she doesn’t believe that Sirius would do that.

Alison: This is an interesting thought I just had, though. Rosmerta knows all of the kids at Hogwarts, then, it seems, or she’s probably at least seen them all.

Kat: All the ones who fancied going to the Three Broomsticks.

Kristen: Yeah, and [who] go to Hogsmeade.

Katy: Or maybe just the popular ones?

Kristen: No, I feel like those unpopular kids are going up there and talking to the barkeep.

Kat: And she strikes me like the type of woman who would find that person who’s in the Three Broomsticks by themself or whatever.

Kristen: Yeah, and talk them up.

Kat: She’d go over and be like, “How are you doing, dear?”

Alison: That’s true. Yeah, I could see that.

Kat: “Oh, what book are you reading? How are classes going?” She strikes me as that warm, Molly-ish person, which, again, is why Ron likes her.

Alison: [laughs] I just think that’s interesting. She knows a lot more, I think, than I’ve ever given her credit for.

Kat: Which is why Draco chooses her in Half-Blood Prince, to be honest.

Alison: Yeah, I was going to say she’s a pretty good spy. No wonder Dumbledore relies on her and Draco decides to use her.

Katy: She’s the behind-the-scenes woman. She sees everything; you just don’t know it.

Kristen: It’s always those people.

Alison: And then, of course, we find out the big reveal that Sirius and James were best friends. “He was their friend!”

Kristen: Oh my God. That’s the worst part of that film.

Alison: What?

Kristen: “He was their friend!”

Alison: I actually quite like that scene.

Katy: I hate “Harry crying” scenes. I’m like, “You’re the worst actor ever.”

Kat: Whoa. I disagree with that. He’s a really bad…

Kristen: Just in those parts.

Katy: Just the crying parts. I can’t deal with him.

Kat: His fake crying has gotten much better over the years, but that is bad.

Alison: Aww. I kind of like that scene, though.

Kat: That is like, Dawson Leery crying on the dock bad. Okay, guys? Look it up if you don’t get that reference.

Katy: I’ve only seen the meme just within the last two weeks so I get that reference now.

Kat: Wait, in the last two weeks is the first time you’ve seen that Dawson Leery meme?

Katy: Yep.

Kat: Girl.

Katy: I can’t even remember what it was from, and I was like, “What the hell is this? It’s hilarious.” And then I saw it. That’s the only reason. Very, very recent that I saw that. But yeah, it’s just as bad as that.

Alison: I don’t know. I like that scene because he’s just so raw and angry.

Katy: But it’s so fake to me. I don’t know. I can’t do it.

Kat: But Joey had just left him to go be with Pacey. I’m kidding.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Sorry. Can’t help it. Can’t help myself. But no, that scene is terrible. Legit, though. That is the worst fake crying I’ve ever seen.

Kristen: And there [are] not even tears in his eyes! And he’s like, [huffs breath].

Alison: Because he’s not really sad. He’s just angry. He’s in a rage!

Kristen: But then he’s not playing it as a rage. He’s playing it as he’s crying but then raging.

Alison: He’s sad, but he’s also angry. It’s complicated emotions, okay?

Kristen: No, he just ain’t got ’em. He grew into them, though. He was able to do it later on in life.

Kat: That isn’t really the best acted movie, anyway.

Alison: What?

Kat: I love that movie. It’s great.

Kristen: I hate it.

Kat: I love that movie, but there are a lot of questionable acting choices in that movie.

Kristen: That whole movie is awful.

Alison: Shh. Kristen. No. You can’t say that. Anyway, so do you guys remember your initial reactions to finding that out? Because I don’t.

Kat: Gasp-y.

Kristen:`I definitely was like, [gasps] “What? No way!” And then flipped the page. “I’ve got to read more now.”

Kat: I don’t remember. Dude, that was 14 years ago.

Alison: It was a long time ago. Okay. I just didn’t know if anybody had any good ones, because I don’t remember.

Kat: Although, it’s funny because I was thinking about the timeline today since today is the anniversary of Half-Blood.

Alison: Oh, yes it is.

Kat: 12 years ago today, yeah. I was thinking about the timeline, and I remember my friend made me watch Movies 1 and 2, and then I went to see the third one, and I hadn’t read the book yet because I was still reading the first or second book at the time, and I remember thinking, “I don’t understand anything that’s happening in this movie.” I didn’t understand that the boggart was a moon. I didn’t get it. I was like, “Oh look, a silvery orb.” Okay, so we get to the end of the movie and I was like, “What?” I literally didn’t understand any of it. And then I read the book, and I was like, “Oh! I get it now.” That’s all. That’s my story.

Kristen: Yeah, I had a friend who hadn’t read the books. Literally the whole time during the movie, “Wait, why is blah-blah-blah? Wait, what is that thing? Wait…” And I’m like, “Shut up. Shut up. I’m trying to watch this movie.”

Kat: Thankfully, I didn’t do that, but I was thinking it.

Katy: That whole book, I remember the first time reading it I was on the edge of my seat. This book was my favorite for a very long time until Half-Blood. And I think this was one of the reasons why; these reveals that kept coming out that were like, “What?” So I don’t specifically remember reading this passage and where I was sitting [or] what I was doing. But I think, like you, I immediately went to the next page and had to find out more. I’m pretty sure I flew through this book really fast, if I recall, because it just had so much good stuff.

Kat: The only two books I have very vivid memories of reading [are] Order of the Phoenix, and that’s because I had started a new job maybe two or three months before that book came out, and that was the first book that I got [at the] midnight release, [and] immediately started reading it. And I got in trouble every single day because I took an hour and a half lunch instead of an hour because I would lose track of time, and I couldn’t stop reading. I remember that so vividly. And then, obviously, Hallows. I was in Denver visiting the friend who got me into the series. Hope, who was the guest on Episode 1, for the record. And we were reading it together and we only allowed ourselves to read two chapters a day because, one, we were together and wanted to spend time together, but also we didn’t want it to be over. Those are really my only vivid memories of reading Harry Potter at all. I don’t even remember reading Half-Blood. I don’t remember it at all. Or Goblet.

Katy: Yeah, me neither, actually.

Kristen: I was doing a yard sale for Order of the Phoenix. And the delivery truck came, I grabbed it, I said, “Bye, everybody!” and ran down the street – because we lived on a private street – and went home and started reading.

Alison: Nice.

Kat: Love it. That was Order?

Kristen: Yep. Because I had finally… The first four were already released, so I was able to read those. So Order of the Phoenix was the first one I actually had to wait for it to come out.

Kat: Yeah. Samesies.

Alison: I just remember my mom hid Order from me for a month.

Kat: What?

Alison: Because she knew it would be attached to my hands, and she and my siblings wanted to read it. So she bought it, but she told me she didn’t get it yet, and they hid it for, like, a week so they could all read it before me.

Kristen: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Alison: Yeah, so I only remember Order, and I remember when Deathly Hallows came out. I remember reading that one.

Kat: So nobody remembers reading Half-Blood? Is that what we’re all saying?

Alison: I do remember reading the end.

Kristen: Oh no, I went to a party. I did. I volunteered at Barnes & Noble and helped out with the party, got it that night, and started reading it at 1:00 a.m. after the book party was released.

Katy: I definitely went to a midnight release. I remember getting it; I just don’t remember reading it because probably I did it the next day because I’m not a night owl. I just can’t stay up all night reading.

Kristen: Oh no. I kept reading because I was crying about Dumbledore, and my brother was so much younger at that age, and he came in and was like, “Why are you crying?” And I was like, “Get out of my room!”

Alison: I do remember reading Dumbledore’s death, but that’s all I remember about reading that one for the first time.

Kristen: I would finish the books and then, again, my younger brother – because I didn’t have friends who were into it yet – I would tell him everything that I just read, and I would make him sit there and listen to me talk about this. Because he, at least, had seen the movies, but he’s like, “I don’t know what else…” But he would try and talk about it with me, but I was like, “No, just listen. And then this happened…” So I would just tell him everything that I just read.

Kat: I guess I lied. I do remember the very first chapter of Half-Blood because, again, I was with my friend Hope. She was my only Harry Potter friend back then, guys, I’m just saying. And we sat in the car and read the first chapter out loud to each other. That’s the only thing I remember about Half-Blood, though.

Alison: Aww. That’s cute.

Kat: Yeah, it was cute.

Alison: Anyway.

Kat: Yeah, we’ve gotten totally off topic. Sorry, listeners.

Alison: We spiraled off. It’s okay. We also learned about the Fidelius Charm here. We’ve talked about it before, and we’ve talked about how does it work, but why does it work? And how is it so complex? Because everybody is always talking about how it’s always so complex. But here’s my other thing: How does it stop other people from saying anything? Do you have to move somewhere? Obviously, you don’t because the Weasleys don’t. But how does it stop someone who has been to a house before from saying anything after the spell is enacted? Does that make sense, what I’m asking?

Kat: Yeah. So you’ve been to my house before, but then if I put a Fidelius Charm on my house, how could you not tell Katy my address or where I lived, right?

Katy: Well, I think you could tell it to me, but we would go there, and I wouldn’t be able to see it.

Kristen: You wouldn’t be able to see it and get in.

Katy: Because the Secret Keeper would have to tell me for me to be able to actually see it.

Kristen: But could you still send spells on it? Like a fire [or] anything? And would it still protect the house?

Katy: Ooh. Good question.

Kat: Wait, say that again.

Kristen: Sending any kind of spell on the house. Say you did know where it was located because you’ve been there a thousand times, but still, it’s invisible. But could you still send a spell to throw a fireball at it or something? Would it bounce off of it, and it wouldn’t catch on fire? Or would it reveal it?

Alison: Kristen wants to burn your house down, Kat.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Kristen: Basically, it’s true. Commit arson here…

Alison: Fire all of Godric’s Hollow.

Kristen: But without seeing your house. Like, with any kind of spell. I was just using fire because that’s something you could see very easily.

Kat: Yeah, right. I don’t know. Maybe it’s like the Bubble-Head Charm where it just blocks everything out. I don’t know.

Alison: Maybe.

Kat: What I’m thinking about is Voldemort obviously knew where James and Lily lived, but he needed to be told by Pettigrew before he could go and see the house. So I think, Katy, you’re right in the fact that you could walk up to it. You could come to my address, which I’m not going to say, and you could stand out front, and you’d know it would be there, but you can’t see it.

Alison: Interesting.

Kat: As far as the shooting spells at it, that’s a really interesting question. Because it is still a solid object. It hasn’t disappeared.

Kristen: You just can’t go inside and murder people.

Alison: But he could have waited outside.

Katy: But with Grimmauld Place, they describe it as when it comes into view for Harry that it pushes the houses to the left and right of it… pushes them out to the side and it appears there.

Kat: But I think that’s just because it’s a row house.

Katy: Well, I thought we had decided on one of the most recent episodes that it was not a row house like we thought it was from the movies.

Alison: Yeah, it was.

Katy: But it’s not actually described that way in the books. Somebody said that.

Alison: But if you’re in the middle of London…

Kristen: Yeah, I never see a standalone house.

Kat: I do remember that conversation, Katy, but don’t remember the conclusion.

Katy: Yeah, I forget what the conclusion was myself. I feel like maybe it was in the comments after the episode; someone was talking about that type of house, and around the time that the Black family would have purchased it… I feel like it was in the recap episode that that was talked about.

Kat: That’s possible.

Kristen: I don’t believe them.

Katy: But either way, it pushes something.

Kat: But still, I get what you’re saying. The house is hidden at that point.

Kristen: But theirs is on the street, yeah. It still has… Does the picket fence disappear too? Is it the whole… [everything] in your lines, county lines?

Kat: The plot of land.

Kristen: Yeah. Is it everything on that line, or is it just the actual house-house?

Kat: I think it’s the dwelling, because isn’t it said it’s placed on a dwelling?

Katy: No, it says, “a secret placed inside a soul.”

Kristen: Yeah, but she’s talking about the land.

Alison: It protects a dwelling.

Kat: What else does it say?

Alison: I need a Pottermore thing about the Fidelius Charm. That’s all I’m going to say.

Kristen: So we’re still waiting. Darn you, Pottermore.

Kat: It’s just overly complicated, and I have a feeling that maybe J.K. Rowling doesn’t quite exactly know. She probably knows, but doesn’t “know-know,” if that makes sense.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Speaking of people who know and don’t know, how the heck do all these people know about this whole Fidelius Charm thing with the Potters? This seems like a strange group of people to know these intimate back details of these secrets that Dumbledore was mostly doing. I can see Dumbledore telling McGonagall what’s going on.

Kat: Really? Because I can’t.

Alison: Really? I can.

Kat: Really? Because then why doesn’t he tell her about anything that has to do with Harry?

Alison: Okay.

Kat: Whoa, did you just concede?

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Ding, ding! One for the Ravenclaw.

Alison: But Fudge, especially. How the heck does Fudge know all these details? There’s no reason for him to know these details.

Kristen: I thought it was something that ended up being discussed in the Order, and then people talk, like Hagrid.

Alison: But how would Fudge know?

Katy: I assume by this point, wouldn’t it just be common knowledge because Harry is so famous because Voldemort tried to kill him?

Kat: Yeah, it’s weird too.

Kristen: I thought everybody knew that story about what happened.

Kat: Right, right. But, but, but…

Alison: But then everyone would know Sirius was the Secret-Keeper.

Kat: Right. Okay, because Pettigrew is “dead,” Sirius didn’t get a trial. So there’s no way this information would have gotten out. The only other people who would have known… Lupin didn’t even know. Dumbledore didn’t know. There are very few people who knew that Sirius was the Secret-Keeper.

Katy: I see what you’re saying. I thought you meant the Fidelius Charm in general.

Kristen: The whole story about them being [hidden], yeah.

Kat: The whole story, yeah. How many people would know besides Dumbledore?

Kristen: One person talked, and everybody talks.

Kat: Yeah, but who’s that one person? It’s not Pettigrew, it’s not Sirius, and it wasn’t Lupin. James is dead. Dumbledore? He’s the only plausible person who would know, right? Voldemort?

Kristen: I [think] Dumbledore. He’s got to talk through his problems, too, sometimes. Not about everything, but maybe [he] was just talking about it with somebody.

Kat: Maybe. Ooh, ooh. When were Frank and Alice tortured?

Alison: It’s after, isn’t it?

Katy: I’m pretty sure it’s after.

Alison: It’s soon after because they think they have information on what happened to Voldemort.

Kat: Bummer. Well, not bummer. You know what I mean. I’m just trying to think of who else may have… What I was trying to think about is if Frank and Alice were tortured to give up that information because maybe they knew because they were in the Order.

Alison: No, I don’t think so.

Kat: Who else was in the Order that might have known that was actually alive is the problem.

Alison: The Prewetts?

Kristen: After [Harry’s] parents died?

Kat: No, before. They would know, I guess, or after. I don’t know. Just somebody…

Kristen: That’s how I thought people would know is after it happened. Dumbledore told somebody, and so only very few people knew after the whole thing.

Kat: Oh, right! Dumbledore gave testimony that Sirius was Secret-Keeper.

Kristen: So that’s how Fudge would know and a few other people.

Kat: Right, that is how Fudge would know. Right, because Dumbledore says, “I myself gave testimony that Sirius was the Potter’s Secret-Keeper.” Wow, for the last ten minutes we’ve been debating it, and it was right there in the book.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Readers, that just proves how hard it is to do this.

Katy: It’s a lot to remember. A whole lot.

Kat: Fidelius Charm is so complicated.

Kristen: Yes, so crazy.

Alison: It really is. It’s just I don’t understand it. Because on the one hand, it seems like it should be so simple, but it’s not, and it messes with my mind. Anyway, we do find out that the Potters were hidden under a Fidelius Charm, and no one was supposed to be able to find them.

Katy: There’s the whole thing in… Which is it? Half-Blood, I guess, where there’s the letter that Lily sends to Sirius saying that James is getting all restless because they’re stuck in their house and they can’t leave, and here we find out that the Charm was only placed on their house for barely a week. And I’m like, “James, get over yourself. You can sit in your house for a freaking week.”

Kat: With your son and your wife.

Katy: Who are in danger of dying.

Kristen: He wants to save everybody. He’s doing stuff for the Order and he wants to be out there, just like Sirius did. He hates being cooped up in the house.

Kat: [He] has the saving people thing like his son, and is a typical over-anxious, ADHD…

[Katy laughs]

Kat: Not meant in a derogatory tone in any way, shape, or form, for the record.

Alison: And he has the Invisibility Cloak, and I think a thing with him is that he’s like, “I can go anywhere. I have this cloak. Why am I sitting here?” And I also think that…

Kat: Although, Dumbledore has it.

Alison: Oh! Oh yeah, I guess he did. Sorry.

Kristen: He’s always been able to go out and do stuff, no matter what.

Kat: Exactly, so that feeds into why he’s feeling restless.

Alison: Well, and I think you’re right. James is a Gryffindor. He’s the kind of person where he’s like, “Uh, someone just threatened my family. I’m going to go get him first before he can show up.”

Kat: Action. Action, action, action.

Alison: So I definitely think part of it is that James wants to go confront the problem before it comes to him. He’s not going to sit and wait for it.

Katy: Fair enough. I had just always assumed that they had been there a month or something, the way it was described in the letter, but when we find out here that it was a very short amount of time, it just made me go, “What?” But I get what you’re saying.

Kat: Yeah, Pettigrew wastes no time giving them up; it’s sad.

Katy: Yeah, that is sad.

Alison: Well, and if it’s a small place, too, I can see why he might be a little restless. If you stay in one small area for that long for someone who’s that active…

Kat: Like Harry in his bedroom, yeah.

Alison: Yeah, then… heck, I’d get restless after a week.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: I’d be like, “Why am I here?”

Kat: Yeah, it’s not like they had Netflix and stuff.

[Katy laughs]

Kat: They didn’t binge-watch in the ’90s.

[Alison laughs]

Katy: That was the ’80s. Early ’80s.

Alison: Yeah, it was the ’80s.

Kat: Oh yeah, when Harry was a kid. Right, sorry. Screwing up my decades.

Katy: There was some great television during that time. Don’t tell me they had nothing to watch.

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Kat: No, no, they had things to watch; they just couldn’t binge.

Katy: I know.

Alison: Well, they were wizards, though, so electronics don’t really work. And James is a pure-blood, so he doesn’t know how that’s working.

Kat: Yeah, well, electronics work, just not at Hogwarts.

Katy: Yeah, because in the Dursleys’ house, they have all kinds of electronics around Harry and they work fine.

Kat: Could you imagine them sitting down to watch Alf or something?

[Katy and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Or The Wonder Years? Come on.

Katy: [laughs] That would be amazing.

Kat: Wait! Wait! Knight Rider.

Alison and Kristen: Yes!

[Alison laughs]

Katy: All of those are post ’81, but…

Kat: I feel like James would be like, “We need one of those. Lily, we need one of those.”

[Katy laughs]

Alison: Lily is like, “No. Please no.”

Kat: You know how British TV is really different from American TV? I wonder if they had wizarding TV. I know they didn’t, but if we can just pretend…

Alison: Oh my gosh!

Kristen: They should.

Kat: … it would be so funny if they had a wizarding Family Ties or something. Just saying.

Alison: No, I want to see what the… [laughs]

Katy: So Percy would be Michael J. Fox in that situation?

Alison: Oh my gosh!

Kat: I don’t know. Michael J. Fox is way too dope to be Percy.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Katy: Just the uptight, ambitious type is what I mean.

Alison: Hey, they had a lot of really cool stuff in the ’80s on BBC and stuff. They were having a great time.

Kat: Yeah, like what?

Katy: Doctor Who. They were watching Doctor Who.

Alison: Blackadder.

Kristen: That’s good enough for them.

Kat: I wonder if the Potters watched Doctor Who.

Alison: EastEnders, Coronation Street… Ooh, can you imagine James Potter watching soaps? [laughs]

Kat: Yes! That would be so great! Lily would be like, “James, stop it.” He’d be like, “I’m watching my stories.”

Kristen: Then he wouldn’t want to leave the house.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: Dude!

Kristen: “I got to get caught up. This is getting intense.”

[Alison laughs]

Kat: That’s what he was doing in those last 24 hours. No, JK, he was dead.

[Alison and Katy laugh]

Alison: Oh my gosh!

Kat: JK.

Alison: So of course, then we get a tie to Sorcerer’s Stone, when in Sorcerer’s Stone Hagrid mentions Sirius. And we learn that Hagrid comforted Sirius because Sirius shows up at the ruined cottage, which is really, really sad. It’s a really sad moment. And then rereading it this time, I had a thought about Pettigrew. And Fudge mentions that they got a lot of what happened to Pettigrew from Muggle testimony on the street, obviously because Peter and Sirius were in a Muggle neighborhood when all this happened. But how did they trust Muggle testimony to give them the full story when there’s so much magic going on, and Muggles always seem to not see magic clearly? Or did they take out their memories of it and view them there? Is that a violation of privacy? What happened?

Kat: They can’t just rely on the testimony of the Muggles because you’re right, they can’t see the magic. If there’s magic that makes our keys disappear, and we just continually blame it on ourselves, yeah. I think they would have to, because they’re going to modify the memories anyway.

Katy: But this was an explosion. A Muggle can understand an explosion. They could’ve just thought the guy had a big gun or a bomb or something.

Kat: Don’t they blame it on a gas leak?

Alison: But that still twists what they actually saw happen, then. Because maybe they actually did see Pettigrew changing into a rat or cutting off his finger or something, but they didn’t get what was going on.

Kristen: Wasn’t he hidden somewhat, or no?

Kat: I don’t think so.

Alison: I don’t think it says that, yeah.

Katy: One of them had the other cornered. I’m trying to remember which had which cornered.

Kristen: But if he’s cornered… And doesn’t something go off that you wouldn’t see if he turned into a rat anyways?

Kat: Yeah, I think there was probably a diversionary tactic happening there. I’m pretty sure Pettigrew had Sirius cornered because that would make more sense.

Katy: Yeah, I think you’re right.

Kristen: Let’s look in the…

Katy: But I think the whole dismembering his finger and turning into a rat thing happened simultaneously with the explosion to hide it.

Kristen: Yeah, that’s what I’m imagining, the smoke and fog and blah, blah, blah.

Kat: Right, a diversion. Exactly.

Katy: And only Sirius understood what he had done.

Kristen: Yes, because he saw him already.

Katy: So I guess that they thought that Sirius just did wandless magic, then. Because the Muggles wouldn’t have said he raised a wand or he threw something because I don’t think he was.

Kat: Yeah, no, it says, “Nobody but trained Hit Wizards from the Magical Law Enforcement Squad would’ve stood a chance against Black once he was cornered.” So I do think Pettigrew had cornered Sirius, according to that line, because they’re going off the assumption that Sirius was desperate and willing to do anything to get out of that situation. So yeah, I think that Pettigrew created a diversion somehow, whether it was wandless magic or whatever, and then changed into a rat [and] cut off his finger. That way all the Muggles looked over at whatever happened, didn’t see the magic, ergo only saw Sirius standing there laughing. Also, what the heck is the hit squad, the Hit Wizards?

Katy: Thank you! Thank you! I was so confused this time when I read that. I was like, “Wait.”

Alison: I feel like they’re a SWAT team.

Katy: So the super dope Aurors?

Alison: That’s what I… No, because Aurors only deal with Dark Magic, right? Whereas [the] Magical Law Enforcement is everyday stuff.

Kat: Or Sirius Black?

Alison: But I don’t think they knew everything about that yet.

Kat: Yeah, maybe.

Alison: I don’t know.

Katy: Yeah, I’m really curious about this Hit Wizards thing. Do they have a CIA-type agency within the Ministry that’s not the typical law enforcement where the Aurors are? It’s a different department for the super secret spy wizards?

Kat: Yeah, it says further down that Black was taken away by 20 members of the Magical Law Enforcement Squad. So that could include Dark Wizard-Catchers, I suppose, as part of it. Otherwise they’re just a bunch of “please-men.”

[Katy laughs]

Alison: Yeah, I was going to say, weren’t the Aurors specifically focused in the first war on finding Voldemort himself too?

Kat: Sure, but wasn’t Sirius believed, at least from this moment on, to be part of his inner circle? I feel like the moment James and Lily were killed and it came out… Because otherwise, why would the magical wizard people be there anyway? There is a reason that they’re following Pettigrew and Sirius, so I feel like they would have called some Aurors there.

Alison: Don’t they show up later, though?

Kat: Who shows up later? What?

Alison: They don’t actually show up when Peter and Sirius are fighting. They show up after.

Kat: Sure, they just miss the fight. That’s all. I guess that’s the way I had always thought.

Alison: Yeah, I guess they’re looking for him, though, by that point? Oh man, I’m getting the timeline confused.

Katy: Yeah, because I’m like, “Did Sirius just stand there laughing for an hour until they got there?” Like, how long did it take?

Alison: “And now an hour long of me laughing.”

[Katy laughs]

Kat: I guess the way I always envisioned it was that the Potters were killed, Voldemort ran away, Dumbledore set other things into action, [and] Dumbledore said, “Sirius Black was the Secret Keeper. This is the guy you have to be looking for.” He alerted whomever, the Minister, the law enforcement people, the Hit Wizards, whatever. And then Dumbledore did whatever he had to do to protect Harry while everybody else was looking for the only suspect they had, who was Sirius. That is the way I had always thought that happened.

Katy: That makes sense.

Kat: And then Pettigrew, being the little lumpy boy, was like, “Oh, I’m going to go find him.” Obviously, we know his true motivations, but I feel like that’s what the wizarding world would think.

Katy: He may have skirted over to some corner where nobody would see him and sent a Patronus message to Dumbledore or somebody saying, “Sirius is at this location. Go get him.”

Kat: Yeah, maybe. Or they tracked his motorbike. Who knows? There [are] a thousand things that could have happened. We do not know those 24 hours.

Katy: Well, do we know that he got the motorbike back? Because I think I read this recently in the first version of Sorcerer’s StonePhilosopher’s Stone, whatever – that Hagrid says, “I’d better go give Sirius his bike back,” but then they took it out in a later version. Does that make sense?

Alison: What?

Katy: Maybe… I forgot.

Kat: It does make sense, yes. Because Sirius leaves it with Hagrid and is like, “I don’t need this anymore.” So that was a boo-boo, I think.

Alison: I was going to say, Hagrid could still be trying to take it back and then when he couldn’t find it he was like, “Well, I’ll just hold onto it,” and then, of course, everything happened and so he was like, “Well, I’m really holding onto it now.”

Katy: Yeah, right, and this conversation is when Hagrid says, “He told me he won’t be needing it anymore.”

Kat: So I think taking out that line was a boo-boo. We’re just trying to clarify things because people… they don’t do this. They don’t talk about one line for three hours and figure out what it could possibly mean.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Most people.

Kat: Ugh, what is wrong with people? We get a lot of information at the end of this chapter, which really informs our entire opinion on the rest of the book, which is funny.

Alison: Exactly, and actually impacts a whole lot of things in the rest of the series as we start building up what happened to get to that night, that Halloween, which is really interesting.

Kat: Right, no, I agree. But that’s it. That’s a long chapter.

Alison: It is, yeah. And there’s a lot that happens. We skipped through a lot of things.

Kristen: It was, yeah. I was surprised.

Kat: It’s 43 minutes on the audio book. It’s a long chapter.

Alison: Wow.

Katy: I’m still mad that we don’t know anything about the missing 24 hours, but that’s just one of those things I will always be obsessed with, I guess.

[Kristen laughs]

Kat: Mathematical error. Bummer.

Alison: And with that, Harry is in shock and we leave them in the Three Broomsticks to sort things out [and] to not have a meltdown of “He was their friend!” running in the snow. Running through a group of carolers like, “What do I care?” That’s rude.

[Katy laughs]

Kristen: And is he underneath the table the whole time?

Alison and Kat: Yes.

Alison: Yeah, and they’re behind the Christmas tree.

Kristen: Yeah, I remember that. I figured once they were behind the Christmas tree he would have sat back up, but…

[Alison laughs]

Katy: But nobody notices that the Christmas tree moves.

[Alison laughs]

Katy: That’s kind of funny.

Kristen: Too much hustle and bustle.

Alison: It’s great.

Katy: They’re all too drunk to notice such things.

Alison: Oh, gosh.

Kat: It’s just the fumes off of Hagrid, that’s all.

[Alison, Katy, and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Oh my gosh. Oh no.

Kristen: Right, so next we’ll go into this week’s Podcast Question of the Week. In this chapter, we find out that while at the ruined Potter cottage, Sirius asked Hagrid if he could take Harry away with him. If Sirius had been given Harry, do you think he still wouldÕve gone after Peter? Why don’t you head on over to the site and leave us your comments. I’m really excited to see what people have to say about this topic.

Kat: I think that’s a really interesting query. I feel like if Sirius had Harry, a lot of things would have changed. So yeah, I look forward to hearing these comments. These are going to be good.

Kristen: As a side note, I said “Sirius” and Siri popped up on my phone and asked that question.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: That’s amazing.

Kat: I have a male British voice on my phone so I call him “Sirius” anyway.

Kristen: There you go, yeah. Mine’s the Australian one and it was like, [in an Australian accent] “I don’t have an answer to your question.” [back to normal voice] I was like, “I’m sorry.”

[Everyone laughs]

Kristen: Whoops.

Alison: That’s fantastic.

Kat: It is that time of the show, as well, where we must thank our guest, who’s not really a guest at this point.

[Katy laughs]

Kat: Katy, thank you for filling in for Miss Rosie today.

Katy: You’re quite welcome.

Kat: Thank you very much.

Katy: Hopefully she can be back soon. I know she was probably disappointed.

Kat: Yeah, she has finally moved into her permanent apartment and has a new job so she will have Internet and weekends and evenings available.

Alison: Yay.

Kat: So I promise, listeners, you’ll get to hear a lot more British in the coming episodes. We promise. Rosie promises. So there you go.

Kristen: And our next topic will be on LGBTQIA+.

Alison: Awesome. And if you want to be on that show or on any of our upcoming shows, go ahead and go to our “Be On The Show page at alohomora.mugglenet.com. You can also submit a topic if there’s a topic you want to talk about that we haven’t gotten to yet. So go suggest. Give us ideas. Also, give us chapters you want us to re-reread.

Kat: Oh, nice. Yeah, re-reread.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: So go suggest those so that we can give you what you want, listeners. If you have a basic set of headphones, you are all set. No fancy equipment needed. You just need a little microphone and some headphones and you are all good to go.

Kat: And in the meantime, you can keep in contact with us over on Twitter, @AlohomoraMN, [and] facebook.com/openthedumbledore. Of course, our website is alohomora.mugglenet.com. And we love getting emails from you guys, so feel free to email us any time [at] alohomorapodcast@gmail.com.

Kristen: And one more reminder to go out and check out our Patreon page at patreon.com/alohomora. And thank you again, Courtney, for sponsoring this episode. Don’t forget you could be like Courtney and sponsor for as low as $1 a month.

Kat: Woop-woop. Yay. Thanks Courtney. You’re the best.

Kristen: And with that, we must say our goodbyes. I’m Kristen Keys.

[Show music begins]

Kat: I’m Kat Miller.

Alison: And I’m Alison Siggard. Thank you for listening to Episode 225 of Alohomora! I solemnly swear that I am up to no good. Open the Dumbledore.

[Show music continues]

[Sound of applause]

Alison: And I’m Alison Siggard. Thank you for listening to Episode 225 of Alohomora! Oh crap, I had something good for this yesterday.

[Kat laughs]

Alison: What was I going to do?

Kristen: “Oh crap, open the Dumbledore.”

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: No, that’s not what I was going to do.

Kristen: I thought that’s what you were about to lead into and I was like, “Dang.”

[Alison laughs]

Kat: “Open the crappy Dumbledore.”

Alison: [laughs] Awesome. Shall we follow Harry into the One-Eyed…? Okay, no. Sorry.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kristen: That one eye. Yuck. No.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Alison: Let’s follow Harry into the passageway.

Kat: No, through the hump. Say through the hump.

[Alison and Kristen laugh]

Kat: Follow Harry through the hump.

Alison: [laughs] I can’t do it. Follow… [laughs]

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: It’s early in the morning. I am not thinking.

Kristen: That’s why I should put it there. That’s the only reason I connected it.

[Everyone laughs]