Transcript – Episode 66
[Show music begins]
Caleb Graves: This is Episode 66 of Alohomora! for January 18, 2014.
[Show music continues]
Caleb: Hey everyone, welcome to another great episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.
Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.
Michael Harle: And I’m Michael Harle. And our guest this week is Cherise Horton. Hello, Cherise!
Cherise Horton: Hi, everyone!
Michael: Tell us a bit about yourself. What’s your house? What’s your background with Harry Potter?
Cherise: Well, I started reading the books just a little over three years ago, and I have read them more times than I probably should.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Caleb: In a three-year span? That’s pretty impressive.
Cherise: Yeah, I… yeah. I’m a total Harry Potter geek. On my house, it’s funny. I like to make sure I get everything in Pottermore and this is before they did the little bar saying that you got everything.
Michael: Yeah.
Cherise: So there had been times that I had went and got re-sorted.
Michael: Oh, okay!
Cherise: So I’ve been put in to Hufflepuff twice, Ravenclaw twice, and Gryffindor twice.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: You need a tiebreaker!
Caleb: Well, we know what house you aren’t, then.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Cherise: I probably… currently, I’m under the Gryffindor house. So…
Caleb: Holla!
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Kat: I was hoping for a Slytherin. That way, we’d have the quad, but not today.
Caleb: Oh, yeah.
Michael: We’d be even.
Kat: That’s okay.
[Michael laughs]
Cherise: Well, I’m wearing green today, so… [laughs]
Kat: That helps! That helps a little bit.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: That’s good. Perfect.
Cherise: And I guess a unique thing is that I’m an older Harry Potter fan. I’m 32 and last year, I was moving from Washington state to Missouri. So I had a Harry Potter going away party and it was tons of fun.
Michael: Oh, nice!
Kat: And for the record, girl, 32? Not old.
[Cherise laughs]
Kat: I am only five months away from 32. That word not associated with my age.
[Cherise, Kat, and Michael laugh]
Caleb: What was the… what would you say was the most awesome thing that was a part of this Harry Potter going away party?
Cherise: We played Quidditch.
Michael: Nice.
Caleb: Okay, well that’s pretty awesome.
Kat: Nice. Awesome.
Cherise: It was quite… it was so funny, but so much fun, so much laughter.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Kat: Did you use official IQA rules?
Cherise: No.
Kat: Oh.
Cherise: We made it up as we went.
Kat: That’s okay. I mean, I’m sure most people do, so you’re not the only one.
Cherise: Yeah.
Michael: Quidditch is pretty easy to wing it as long as you don’t have aspirations to fly, so… [laughs]
Kat: I mean, yes. Yes.
Caleb: I always have aspirations to fly, so…
[Michael laughs]
Kat: And with that, we want to remind everybody listening that this week we’re going to be covering Chapter 28 of Goblet of Fire, “The Madness of Mr. Crouch.” And before we move on, we do just want to take a quick moment and have a moment of silence for Roger Lloyd-Pack, who actually passed away today, January 16, and he was Mr. Crouch in the films. It’s a coincidence that we’re covering a chapter that’s all about him today. So, for Roger.
Caleb: And he’s… one of his title chapters. That’s…
Kat: Right.
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: It’s a little bittersweet, but…
Kat: It is.
Caleb: A great actor, aside from Harry Potter, so…
Kat: Very much.
Caleb: … it’s a terrible loss to the entertainment world, but…
Kat: He will be missed for sure.
Caleb: Definitely.
Michael: All right, well with that, before we move in to our discussion of this week’s chapter, we’re going to look back on the comments that you guys, our listeners, left us from Chapter 27 and the big conversation topic from last week was about the point that Laura brought up, which was about whether Sirius actually knew about the Dark Mark that was branded on to Death Eaters’s arms. And the first comment we have comes from Tweak6, which is from the forums and Tweak 6 said,
“I don’t think Sirius was bluffing, just that the Dark Marks weren’t common knowledge. The impression I have is that the marks show up when Voldemort has power, and that the members of Voldemort’s inner circle have them. So how did no one at the Ministry ever notice this? I feel like they didn’t all hide them, especially Death Eaters like Bellatrix, who went to trial proud of their service and ready to go to Azkaban to prove their loyalty, so imagine how easy it would have been to identify and convict those Death Eaters (particularly before Voldemort’s fall, when their marks were still dark).”
Kat: And that’s something I’ve always thought about. Hello! Just look at their arms. I don’t know.
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah, but even if Bellatrix and people like her are very proud of their Death Eater status, there still could have been the possibility that Voldemort told them to keep this part secret so that he would be able to infiltrate the Ministry and other things.
Michael: Mhm.
Cherise: Yeah.
Kat: Do you think non-Death Eaters can see the Mark?
Caleb: Yeah, definitely.
Michael: Well, yeah because… actually, that’s funny you said that because there was a follow-up question to that – or follow-up response to that particular response by Tweak – from texaskid on the forums and texaskid pointed out that, actually, Snape discusses the tattoo in Goblet, Chapter 36, when Fudge is standing there and they are trying to convince him that Voldemort is really back. He steps up and pulls up his left sleeve to show Fudge and says, “There, the Dark Mark. It is not as clear as it was an hour ago when it burned black, but you can still see it. Every Death Eater had the sign burned into him by the Dark Lord.” Which we know is… there’s… that comes up later with who is necessarily considered a Death Eater and who is not. We know that Narcissa Malfoy was not considered a Death Eater and therefore, was not branded despite all the work she did for Voldemort, but Snape does confirm through that that people who are not Death Eaters can see it because he shows it to Fudge.
Kat: Okay. So it’s the inner circle then, maybe, that have the Dark Mark.
Michael: Mhm. Yeah.
Cherise: Another vein is where Tweak6 wrote, “No one at the Ministry ever noticed.” When has the Ministry ever been bright? Because…
[Michael laughs]
Cherise: I mean, in texaskid’s response, he – Snape – shows Fudge. Well, what did Fudge end up doing, really? He turned his back and totally ignored it when the proof was right there in front of him.
Michael: Mhm. Yeah. So… well and I think Fudge being the top of the chain pretty much proves that people at the Ministry aren’t aware of the Dark Mark. So they are, I guess, as far as being branded on to Death Eaters, they know what it looks like, obviously. So we have one argument that’s saying here that the Ministry doesn’t know and that Sirius, therefore, also did not know in general. And a lot of people in the forums did bring up the fact that the text does not necessarily support that Sirius is bluffing, but PitterPotter on the forums added,
“It may be possible that [the Dark Mark] is not normally visible and gets darker when Voldemort touches one to call the others or when he feels particularly powerful (kind of like a white ink tattoo or a UV tattoo – only visible under a blacklight). Karkaroff repeatedly told Snape the mark was getting darker, which could imply that the mark was invisible to begin with. Additionally, in Chapter 33, ‘The Death Eaters,’ when Voldemort reaches for Wormtail’s arm to summon the Death Eaters, he says…”
And I’m not going to do this in Voldemort’s voice because I’m not in the mood to be creepy.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: [continues]
“… ‘It is back. They will all have noticed it,’ implying it was not visible after his downfall. If this is the case, after Voldemort’s fall, the Ministry would not be able to simply round up Death Eaters by looking at their arms – which would explain a rather large loophole.”
So basically, PitterPotter is suggesting that the Dark Mark disappears when it’s not in use. And I looked at an interview that… because I remembered that there was an interview where J.K. Rowling mentioned this and it was from her Bloomsbury.com Q&A chat in 2007 after Deathly Hallows was released and she had the freedom to talk about whatever she wanted and she said that, “Due to disuse, the Dark Mark would fade to a scar, not dissimilar to the lightning scar on Harry’s forehead. Like Harry’s, these scars would no longer burn or hurt.”
Kat: But they’d still be there. It would still be a scar.
Michael: Yup.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: And she’s saying that she says that in reference to after Voldemort’s fall, but I assume she’s saying too that while Voldemort was still alive and the Dark Marks were not in use…
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: … that they would have still been visible.
Caleb: But I don’t necessarily… but I think they would have started to fade…
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: … because as Voldemort’s power wanes, yet fades. And like we were saying, the Ministry not being as bright as they are, probably wouldn’t have thought about tattoos because it’s reasonable to believe that many wizards will have tattoos or something. We have no reason to think otherwise, anyway.
Michael: That true, that’s true. Well, and actually, Saiyangirl on the forums pointed that out by saying,
“There would be no way for [the Ministry] to know whether the [Dark Mark] tattoo would have been branded on [one’s] forearms willingly. Like Lucius Malfoy, someone could easily claim that it had been put on them while they were under the Imperius Curse, or even after they had just been tortured by the Cruciatus Curse. There’s too many ways to evade suspicion based on a Dark Mark tattoo alone, and skilled wizards would be on guard for tools such as Veritaserum and Legilimency. I believe this is how Lucius avoided capture.”
Kat: That’s true.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: I hadn’t thought of that. That’s true, forced marking or whatever.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: Like branding of cows. That’s so sad.
Michael: [laughs] Well, and pretty appropriate though for Voldemort.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: But… and I had brought that up last week that it was a possibility that people like Lucius would just say, “Oh, I was tricked into it,” or, “It wasn’t my fault.” The tattoo alone, I guess, would not be enough proof as long as the Ministry didn’t know that it was strictly being branded on to people who were in Voldemort’s most trusted inner circle.
Caleb: Mhm.
Michael: Because… I mean, do… the one thing I was wondering, do we ever get confirmation that somebody like Regulus, Sirius’s brother, do we ever get confirmation that he had a Dark Mark?
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: Because…
Caleb: We don’t get confirmation.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: I don’t think so, but I mean, it is said that he was one of his most trusted advisors, right?
Caleb and Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: So I think it would be reasonable to say he did.
Michael: Well, and yet at the same time, Sirius is… and of course, Sirius is getting his information second hand, but Sirius believes that Regulus wasn’t important enough for Voldemort to kill him himself and Rowling I think later confirmed – or Deathly Hallows actually – confirmed that he was killed by the Inferi in the cave. So yeah. There’s also conflicting information on that too about who gets branded, who’s considered closest to Voldemort. Because from… I remember when I read the book, I just got the first time from Snape, I just got the impression that everybody who worked for Voldemort had the tattoo.
Caleb: Yeah, I think that is what you assume from the first read through, but no.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: It’s maybe not as clear as we thought.
Michael: Mhm.
Cherise: Yeah.
Kat: Maybe Narcissa’s really the only one who doesn’t have it. Maybe just everybody else does and for some reason because Narcissa’s just – maybe she’s only with them…
Caleb: She married into it.
Kat: Yeah, by association?
Michael: Yeah, that’s true.
Cherise: I have a feeling that Voldemort definitely would not put the Dark Mark on someone who’s been Imperiused just because, I mean, that spell can break and he wants someone that has proved loyalty through him on their own accord.
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: Yeah, so we wouldn’t expect Pius Thicknesse to have one?
Cherise: No.
Michael: No, probably not, but I just liked too that after Saiyangirl’s comment, DolphinPatronus on the fourms said,
“I agree that Lucius is skilled as are some of Voldemort’s other followers. But there are several that aren’t the brightest bulbs on the porch.”
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: And I did like that pointed out because it is made clear, especially in Order of the Phoenix onwards when we meet some more Death Eaters and the trio and the students do battle with them, that some of the Death Eaters really aren’t very skilled or bright. And there was a lot of discussion too about whether there is a way to disguise a Dark Mark, at least temporarily.
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: To make it… there’s no real basis for that as far as spells that we know, from what I recall, but people were wondering if there was a way to just temporarily… if Death Eaters had been forced to pull their arms up to show their Dark Mark, would they have been able to hide it?
Kat: Well, they… I mean, wizards use makeup. I mean, they must, so…
Caleb: Yeah, I was about to say, just heavy on the powder, man.
Kat: Yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Let it go.
Michael: So kind of like how in Unfortunate Events, how Count Olaf always puts makeup over his eye tattoo on is ankle…
Cherise: Yeah. [laughs]
Michael: … and then people are like, “That couldn’t possibly be him!” So… [laughs]
Kat: Or maybe they have… you know those tattoo sleeves that they sell for people? Fake tattoo sleeves?
Caleb: I didn’t know that was a thing.
Kat: Oh. Well, if you watch Big Bang. I mean, they…
Caleb: Oh.
Kat: There was an episode where two of the characters go to a goth club and they wear fake tattoo sleeves. Maybe they have flesh colored sleeves that the Death Eaters wear.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: It doesn’t work because nobody knows what I’m talking about.
Cherise: Oh, I do.
Caleb: Well, I get the concept.
Michael: I can picture it, yeah. That would be a weird thing…
Caleb: I just feel weirded out by it.
Cherise: I remember that episode.
Caleb: Something about me wearing flesh colored things made me feel a little queasy, maybe?
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Sorry, doll.
Michael: But I guess over all, what do we each think? Do we think that this is a mistake on Rowling’s part? Do we think that Sirius was bluffing? Because I’m sure the fans will at least want something out of us.
Kat: I stick with what I said last week. No, I don’t think he was bluffing. Yes, I think it was a mistake. Sorry.
Michael: I’m…
Caleb: Yes, it was a mistake that…
Kat: That Sirius obviously knows about… he must… he has to know about it.
Caleb: Oh, okay. I understand.
Kat: There’s no way he doesn’t know and this is just a boo-boo on Jo.
Michael: Well, because… and we do find out… this was also discussed in the forums. We do find out in Deathly Hallows that Snape has at least told Dumbledore about the scar because he mentions at the Yule Ball to Dumbledore, after Karkaroff talks to him in the
Kat: Yeah. Well, they would have… I mean, the would have to.
Michael: They would have to, yeah.
Kat: Because Harry knows about it at this point.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Kind of.
Michael: But I do like… if we had to retcon any information to at least make it work, I would go with Saiyangirl’s explanation that you can’t just go off of a Dark Mark on somebody’s arm alone as proof, perhaps.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Agreed.
Michael: So that’s where we’re at with this, but listeners, feel free to continue discussing that in the forums. There were a lot of great discussions both on the forum and on the main site and I did want to at least give a few shootouts to all the other discussions that I couldn’t incorporate. There were a lot of people talking about the Dark Mark tattoo including cat magic, Honeydukes Empire, Elvis Gaunt, MartinMiggs, Sassy Hedwig, skgai, and…
Kat: “Sk-guy,” as Noah always says.
Michael: “Sk-guy.”
Caleb: “Sk-guy!”
Michael: “Sk-guy!”
[Kat laughs]
Michael: And TheTrueHBP. On the main site that discussion was carried out by Dan Sharp, gallifreyslocked, and RoseLumos, who also started the topic through our Audioboo. We also had discussions on wizard genetics and Gillyweed on the forums from Hippogriff and HufflePuffskein and on the main site from ArchdukeSeverus, Fawkes Fan, and Jake Pontzer, who originated the topic. Jake, I know you were disappointed that we didn’t definitively answer that question, which you brought up, but there has been a lot of great discussion on that on the site and the forums. Thanks also to froggyhpmb3, Emily Theurer, Lord_Trolldemort, and HPAlison all for your great comments on transfiguration, the mechanics of Mermish, favorite quotations, and would Sirius eat Wormtail.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: You can find all of those discussions both on the main site and in the forums if you’d like to get more involved in that.
Kat: I think that was one of my favorite bits from last week is the whole, would Sirius eat Wormtail? Would Buckbeak eat Wormtail? So funny.
Michael: [laughs] Just a random…
Cherise: I can see Sirius giving Wormtail to Buckbeak.
Kat: Yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Brother’s got to eat.
Kat: Right? Exactly! Exactly. I also really enjoyed while you were just reading that, all these usernames. Our listeners are…
Michael: Very creative!
Kat: … very clever.
Michael: Very clever.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Definitely.
Caleb: But shout-out to – what was it? – the best username, texaskid. That was clearly the top one, so…
Michael: I knew you’d like that one, Caleb. [laughs]
Caleb: Shout-out to the texaskid!
Cherise: I was going to ask if that was you, Caleb.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Oh yeah, that would be pretty sad for me if I had to go under a different username.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Kat: It’s your incognito self. It’s cool.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: It’s all right. We all have one. I’m GallifreyIsLocked, so…
Michael: [laughs] You would be. You would be. Oh, and by the way, also, thank you, shout out to all the people who have stopped by my section in the forums that I opened up just recently. I’m talking about expanded stuff in the HP universe. So please come by and chat because it’s fun over there. So…
Kat: Ooh, it’s a party at Michael’s!
Michael: That’s right. Hufflepuff party! You know it. Caleb doesn’t agree that the Hufflepuffs’ are the best parties. [laughs]
Caleb: You show me a Hufflepuff party and prove it.
Michael: Okay.
Kat: Challenge accepted.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Okay, so we’re going to move on to our Podcast Question of the Week responses from last week. Just as a quick reminder of our question, it was,
“At the conclusion of this chapter, Ron suggests that Percy’s recent actions at the Ministry have led him to believe that Percy would behave as Sirius believes Crouch Sr. has done with his family, completely abandoning them for the sake of appearances and career opportunities. Hermione counters with the belief that Percy would never ‘throw any of his family to the Dementors,’ but Ron seems doubtful. Not taking the events of ‘Deathly Hallows’ into account, if he had the power to do so, would Percy really sacrifice members of his family to Azkaban, or even send them straight to the Dementors, if any of the Weasleys found themselves at the center of a scandal similar to the Crouches?”
Caleb: God, I wish I would have been here last week.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Well, you get to talk about it now.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: So our first response comes from LeslieLovegood. She says,
“This is a hard question to answer because Percy does change so drastically in the series. Prior to Percy’s return and apology, I do think that it would have been likely that Percy would have turned his family in to be sent to Azkaban. I don’t think he would have actively searched for them, but let’s say if he and another ministry official found them, he would absolutely protect his own reputation by turning them in. Percy by nature is very driven by wrong and right. He’s so driven that at some level he just follows what he believes is right, blindly.”
Caleb: Well said, Leslie. I endorse that comment.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: It has the Caleb stamp of approval?
Caleb: It does. Very well said. I like that she pointed out that he would not go out and seek it. I think that’s really important. I agree, I don’t think he would go out and seek it. But presented to him, fully agree.
Kat: That’s because he’s kind of a wimp, right?
Caleb: Yeah, but it’s also he’s probably got… would rather be spending his time working on reports or something. So he doesn’t really have the drive to go find something.
Michael: I really like that – and this occurred definitely in Leslie’s comment, and a few people have noted this – that Percy, as Leslie put it, is by nature very driven by right and wrong, and he just follows what he believes is right. I like that a lot of people pointed that out, almost to Percy’s… almost giving him the benefit of the doubt that Percy may not be right in what he’s doing, but he thinks he’s right and he thinks he’s doing the right thing because he’s working for the law.
Kat: Yeah, but you know who else think they’re doing the right thing because they’re working on the side of the law? Umbridge.
Michael: [laughs] True.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Very true.
Caleb: She actualizes that to the extreme.
Michael: To the extreme, definitely.
Caleb: We see inklings of it with Percy.
Michael: Mhm. Definitely. Yeah, I think… I guess that blind faith in the law, which of course Rowling comments on throughout, from pretty much Goblet of Fire on, that it’s almost like Percy… I guess you could say Percy could have gone to full-on Umbridge if he had been given enough time.
Kat: I think if he didn’t have the family that he had, regardless whether they were or weren’t talking, I feel he still knew… obviously, because he turned around in Deathly Hallows but his family still had an influence on him somewhere deep down and he knew that what he was doing was kind of screwed up. So I’m not sure he would have ever gone full Umbridge, but he was on the path. He was on the path.
Michael: So maybe somebody just need to ask Umbridge what happened in her childhood. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, it was all those leaky cauldron bottom reports.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: But our next comment here comes from Maureen, and she says,
“After reading these comments, I am starting to wonder whether, theoretically, Percy supporting his family over the Ministry is even the morally correct thing to do. We see nepotism and favoritism portrayed badly in the series, and I don’t think Percy would necessarily be in the wrong if one of his family members committed a crime and he gave them a fair trial in which they were convicted. Furthermore, I am not convinced that Percy would have thrown his family (or anyone) to the Dementors without a trial. I think his law-abiding nature, as well as love and loyalty, would convince him to give them a trial.”
So that’s the other side of the coin there.
Caleb: I think it’s definitely fair to say that Percy did not have an ideal childhood. He grew up… it was very challenging for him. He did not get the nurturing maybe he needed. Having said that, I do not think that Molly and Arthur were ever cruel to him. Favoritism? It’s clear that some of their children interact with them better, but I think it’s very hard to say that it is clear favoritism on the side of the parents. Having seen that happen in real life at extremes, I still don’t see that true favoritism happening where Percy gets slammed out the door, especially because we see many scenes where Percy and Arthur are interacting on a one-on-one level.
Michael: Well, if anything, I would say that if there were favorites early on in the series, Percy was it.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Because Fred and George kind of resent him for that because their mother just extolls the virtues of Percy and then turns to them and is like, “So what are you two doing with your lives?”
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: Right.
Michael: Yeah, in a way I… yeah, as far as how his parents treated him, Percy was treated more than fair. I almost wonder if there weren’t Ministry opportunities for Percy because his dad works at the Ministry.
Kat: Yeah, and it’s funny because I’ve always seen… I’ve always pictured Percy’s relationship with Molly and Arthur being very private.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: So most of his discussions with Arthur were probably on the commute to work. They were by themselves. Or out in the garden, working on the plugs in the shed or something very privately.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: And then with Molly maybe it was early morning, before everyone else was awake. I just… I always saw him as a private, withdrawn person, and that’s where I feel probably some of that comes in.
Caleb: Yeah, because you have to… this is one of those moments again when you have to remember we’re getting the story from Harry’s point of view. We get a very limited scope of what actually goes on. We have to be very careful to judge based off of that.
Michael: Mhm.
Cherise: Would you guys say that Percy has no “Middle Child Syndrome”?
Michael: Hmm.
Caleb: I don’t think so because I think he excels well enough to not feel that.
Michael: I…
Kat: But he’s not the middle child.
Cherise: He has…
Caleb: There’s a lot of kind of middle children.
Michael: [laughs] Yeah, there’s a lot of middle children in the Weasley family.
Kat: Well, I mean… yeah, I suppose.
Caleb: It’s really Bill and Charlie at the top and Ginny at the bottom, and the rest of them are middle children.
Cherise: Yeah. And then another thing that I was thinking is, how perfect is it that Percy went to work for Crouch? They are so similar that… they are both by the book, there is no deviating from the book, and I just love how – in an earlier chapter – how Ron was like, “They’ll be announcing their engagement any day now.”
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: It’s funny that you bring that up because our last comment, from IPutTheRaveinRavenclaw – whoop, whoop!
[Michael laughs]
Kat: I think this person agrees with. The comment says,
“I think there is a fundamental difference between the situation Crouch Sr. was in and one Percy could ever be involved in. Leaving aside the fact that Crouch was an ambitious and rule-loving jerk just like Percy, what his son was accused of was really and truly evil. The wizarding world had just been through some of the most terrible and painful events imaginable, and Barty Jr. was accused of participating in them. No matter how much the Weasleys dissented against the Ministry of Magic, Percy would never have to face the same sort of situation because all of the other Weasleys were good people at their core and couldn’t reasonably be suspected of such a heinous crime.”
Michael: Hmm.
Caleb: That’s very true. That is an excellent point to make. However, had it been the case, had Percy been given the opportunity to respond to that – let’s say for some reason Ron or George or whoever messed up – we still see those moments particularly when Percy shows back up later in the series with Minister Scrimgeour… however you say his stupid name.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: You kind of said it like, “Smaug.”
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: “Scrimjower.”
Caleb: Anyway, I just feel like we see that it could have been, had the Weasleys gotten to that level.
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: It’s a good point. I’m not saying my words very well.
Michael: Well, and of course we are putting out a theory that a Weasley would have done something bad.
Caleb: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael: So that’s… the comment is basically saying that that would never happen, which is pretty true. But the interesting thing in tandem with that – and like you said, Caleb – we talked about this a little bit last week. Kat believes – and maybe, Kat, you can go more into this – that it would depend on the Weasley who was in trouble.
Kat: I still very firmly believe that, and I just had a follow-up question while you were talking about that. Which Weasley would be the one to commit that crime?
Caleb: Oh, I don’t think any of them really.
Kat: No, come on, just go to extremes.
Michael: Yeah, because we’re also going with the theory perhaps that maybe the Weasleys are committing some dissent against the Ministry, which is not necessarily a crime from Harry’s point of view, but would be from Percy’s side.
Cherise: The twins.
Kat: I’m going to guess Bill.
Caleb: Well, what kind of crime are we wanting to know for this question?
Kat: Just any crime heinous enough that you would have to have a trial.
Caleb: Oh.
Kat: Not considering all the crap that happens in Order of the Phoenix. I’m talking actual heinous crime.
Caleb: Oh, then Charlie. Charlie. He’s the wildest of them all.
Michael: Hmm.
Cherise: I would say the twins. They would pull a prank too far.
Michael: Yeah, I was almost inclined to say the twins.
Kat: I think the twins are smart, though.
Michael: Well, they are, but in a way, I almost wonder if that wouldn’t be why they would be more inclined to do something big.
Kat: I say Bill because I think he would get in trouble curse-breaking because he does the curse-breaking and all of that.
Michael: Hmm.
Kat: And I feel like…
Caleb: I just see Charlie living a somewhat reckless lifestyle.
Kat: He works with dragons, I get that.
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: It’s funny that none of us say Ron, though.
Caleb: I thought about him first, then… yeah.
Michael: I guess Ron, by the Ministry anyway, would be considered probably pretty bad just because he’s in cahoots with Harry and the Ministry never likes what Harry’s up to. But in the same… on the flipside, Percy is very protective of Ron…
Caleb: Right.
Kat: He is.
Michael: … especially when they’re at school together. I would be hesitant to say what Percy would do if Ron was in trouble.
Kat: I tweeted the question at Chris Rankin because I know he has some…
[Michael laughs]
Kat: He has some very, very strong opinions about Percy, and I’m dying to get him to answer it but he hasn’t yet. But fingers crossed.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: I would love to hear what you thought about this.
Caleb: He’s a bright guy, so it would be a great answer.
Kat: Yeah, I was going to tell everybody to tweet at him and bother him, but I don’t want to.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: So don’t tweet at him, don’t bother him about it.
Caleb: He’ll come around.
Kat: I’ll email him and I’ll get his answer for it.
Michael: Well, he’s listening right now, Kat.
Kat: Oh, right, right. Him and Jo are sitting down there, having tea and listening to the show together.
Michael: Yes.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: Right. Of course, of course. But you guys know where to go to answer the Podcast Question of the Week, right? It’s on alohomora.mugglenet.com, so go join the conversation, and then get your comment read. Boom.
Caleb: Yes. With that, we are going to move into this week’s chapter.
[Goblet of Fire Chapter 28 intro begins]
Crouch Sr.: Chapter 28.
[Sounds of a forest]
Crouch Sr.: “The Madness of Mr. Crouch.”
[Goblet of Fire Chapter 28 intro ends]
Caleb: All right, so near the beginning of this chapter, the trio head down to the kitchens to thank Dobby again for helping Harry in the Third… or the Second Task, excuse me, to give him his socks. There’s this really comical interaction that I just really love where Ron… I think it’s eclairs that he wants?
Kat and Michael: Yeah.
Cherise: Yes.
Caleb: I can’t remember exactly, yeah. So he wants more food, and Hermione implicitly calls him fat because she says something like, “You just ate,” or whatever.
Kat: “You just had breakfast.”
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Yeah, and it was just, wow, what a married couple moment right there.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Kat: Completely foreshadowing up the heck in this chapter, yeah.
Michael: No!
Caleb: There’s a lot in this chapter.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: But we’ll get to that. So we find out that Winky has really gone off the deep end with the Butterbeer.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Consuming about six bottles a day.
Kat: Which… sorry.
Caleb: No, I was going to say that they try to say, “Well, Butterbeer’s not that strong,” but Dobby says, “But for a house-elf, that’s a lot.”
Michael: See, I never… maybe this was just my naivete as a child, but when I read it, I didn’t realize that Butterbeer was mildly alcoholic. [laughs] But this pretty much confirms that it is. [laughs]
Kat: But I’m almost positive that Jo has said that it’s a non-alcoholic beverage.
Michael: But it has to be somewhat alcoholic because the implication is that because the house-elves are smaller, they can’t hold their alcohol.
Kat: I think… see…
Michael: Isn’t that the…
Caleb: It could be something else that they’re getting their high off of.
Kat: I think maybe it’s the sugar.
Caleb: Yeah, I was thinking maybe it’s the sugar.
Kat: Like kids.
Caleb: If it’s not the alcohol, it must be sugar.
Cherise: I think it’s the butterscotch. She’s getting drunk off the butterscotch.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: There is a lot of it if you look at Butterbeer recipes. You do put a lot of butterscotch into it.
Caleb: Way too much.
Kat: Yeah. I think the part that worried me about this part is poor little Winky. She’s so dark, her clothes are so dirty, that you can’t tell her apart from the brick that she’s laying on.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Yeah, that’s really gross.
Kat: Why aren’t the other house-elves taking care of her?
Caleb: Dump a bucket on her head. Come on, man, help her out.
Cherise: Because there’s work to be done.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: But even Dobby. I mean, come on. You guys know that Dobby is probably my favorite character, and… come on, dude. Have some compassion. Take care of that little girl.
Caleb: Well, we get to that…
Michael: Yeah, we’ll see that.
Caleb: … in just a little bit. But Harry decides on… because they’re thinking some about Crouch. He’s been missing a lot, and Winky is Crouch’s former house-elf, so Harry asks Winky about Crouch. And then Winky goes into this even weirder stupor where she starts rambling on and on and she reveals that she is trusted with Crouch’s… she says, “The most important, the most secret.” So that definitely makes us raise our eyes because clearly Winky knows something very mysterious and possibly dark about Barty Crouch. And in this moment – kind of already what you were alluding to, Kat – the other house-elves start to judge Winky because of course they don’t want to look guilty or bad by association, a.k.a. Winky has now become the black sheep of the Hogwarts house-elves.
Kat: But it’s being literally the black sheep. She is disgustingly dirty.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Cherise: Yes. Do you guys also think that they could not help care for her because she is a free elf?
Michael: Hmm.
Caleb: Maybe.
Michael: There is probably something to that.
Kat: But she’s technically not because she works for Dumbledore.
Caleb: Right, right. So that brings us to Hermione tries to defend Winky – kind of like you just did, Kat – asking… saying she’s unhappy, why aren’t you doing anything? Help her. The house-elf response… this is a very troubling line.
Michael: Yeah. Yes, it is.
Caleb: The quote is, “But house-elves has no right to be unhappy when there is work to be done and masters to be served.”
Michael: I think this is the line, more than anything, that justifies everything that Hermione is trying to do.
Caleb: Right.
Kat: Mhm.
Caleb: So I just want to… we could talk about this probably for hours, but my big thing is… the whole idea of house-elves in the series being servants – this is almost a comical scene here. We get a drunk Winky and the whole idea of what house-elves go through is comical. It’s comical at times the way that they say things like this, but this is very dark. This is a clear tie-in to slavery in our world where you don’t have the ability to even propel yourself forward, you’ve been subdued by your master for so long. So it’s a very weird cognitive dissonance almost that happens with this.
Cherise: Something that I just noticed, Caleb, is that house-elves have no right to be unhappy when there’s work to be done. That’s almost, not word-for-word, what Winky said at the Quidditch World Cup about how she was shunning Dobby because he was wanting wages, and he just needs to settle down and be a good house-elf. And it’s just ironic – if that’s the correct word – how the roles are now switched in a way.
Caleb: Yeah, that is true.
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: This line – I never picked this line out as much before, but man, when I read it this time, I had to stop. It struck me hard.
Michael: Yeah. No, it’s funny because I felt the same way. What was interesting to me about this line was because of the conversations we’ve had before in previous podcasts with Hermione’s particular approach to this issue and how… I think a few of us are split on how Hermione went about it initially and whether what she was doing was the right approach, if she should have been… because Ron continually – even Fred and George continually justify what’s going on by saying, “Well, the house-elves want this way of life.”
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: This is not something that they are questioning. But this line particularly reveals that this is almost brainwashing.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: And it is a very blatant, forward commentary on slavery. But I think this line more than anything just suddenly brings to life that, yes, Hermione is actually right. house-elves haven’t been… this has been so embedded into their history and their genetics, but it’s not something that’s a natural way for living things to think.
Kat: What kind of “master” do you think Dumbledore is? Do you think he’s one who just lets them go about their business and do wherever they want? What do you guys think?
Caleb: I think he does.
Michael: Yeah, I think so, too.
Kat: Yeah.
Cherise: Yeah.
Michael: Because he tries to pay Dobby a more grandiose amount of money for his services…
Kat: Right, right. I remember.
Michael: … and Dobby won’t let him. Dumbledore kind of pulls back, probably recognizing that he’s not going to get anywhere with that. But I almost would say that Dumbledore doesn’t take that on because he’s got other issues that are a little more important to him as far as what’s going on with Voldemort.
Kat: Right. So then he doesn’t push it and lets him live the life that they think they want to live.
Michael: Yeah. I’m not saying that Dumbledore is right to do what he’s doing, but I think because as a person of such influence, he could probably do more. But I don’t think that’s really… I mean, it would be interesting if Hermione actually had ever approached Dumbledore at any point and asked him those questions.
Kat: Right.
Michael: Because you would think she would.
Kat: She could go ask his portrait now in the…
Michael: There you go. [laughs]
Kat: It just seems like… it’s funny because we all think of Hogwarts as this grandiose, beautiful, magical, amazing place. And then there’s these house-elves which, according to this comment by this one random house-elf, it’s kind of inferring that… inferring? Yeah, inferring that they’re not as happy as you might think they are.
Michael: I like…
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: I can see Dumbledore just telling the house-elves… I can see him pretty well just leaving them alone. But as in what he stated with Kreacher and Sirius, how Sirius should have told Kreacher not to explain about his relationship with Harry, I’m sure Dumbledore probably says something like… if there’s something very specific, he might go down to the kitchen and say, “Don’t say anything about this.”
Michael: Hmm. Mhm.
Caleb: All right. Well, past this very troubling bit, Harry goes to send Sirius a package after they get shoved out because the house-elves aren’t really feeling Hermione’s commentary on the situation. So they shove them out but Harry does manage to get some food to send Sirius.
Kat: Finally.
Michael: Finally! [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah, finally. Poor guy. And when he is sending the package off, he sees Madame Maxime seemingly trying to make amends with Hagrid. He notices she goes over toward his hut with conversation, but my guy Hagrid is not having it. He is still not over the way Maxime treated him.
Kat: Is this the part where she’s trying to apologize and become friends with him again?
Michael: Yup.
Caleb: Well, I think that’s part of it. But also later we find out she was trying to ñ at the end of this chapter we find out she was trying to get info about the Third Task.
Kat: Right. Okay. That’s what I thought.
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: But that’s according to Hagrid and he’s all hurt and stuff.
Caleb: Right. That’s what I was saying – according to him.
Michael: I don’t know, I think Hagrid was right to stand his ground on this one.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Oh, yeah.
Caleb: I totally support him.
Michael: I think that was justified because Maxine was horrible to him.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: She was.
Michael: He bared his soul to her. So…
Caleb: Exactly.
Michael: … that was not cool. Also, Hagrid’s digging a grave and he doesn’t even realize it. That’s pretty creepy.
Cherise: Yes.
Michael: Because that’s where Crouch is going to go later.
Kat: Oh!
Michael: Yup.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Whoops.
[Michael laughs]
Michael: Creepy.
Caleb: The next…
Cherise: I just noticed ñ and it’s just kind of a side thing – [Harry] notices the handsome eagle owl coming toward the castle, and it’s just like Jo to put in these little things. Because in the first book he notices the owl coming that took Dumbledore away from the school to the Ministry. And now we see the eagle owl coming to Little Crouch from Voldemort saying that Crouch Sr. has escaped.
Michael: Oh! That’s right.
Caleb: Hmm.
Kat: I totally never put that…
Michael: I never picked up on that.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: That’s interesting.
Michael: That’s right, though. Because Crouch later says in the “Veritaserum” chapter that he found out around then that Crouch Sr. was on his way to Hogwarts from Voldemort. So yeah, that’s right.
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: Too bad Harry doesn’t have a BB gun.
[Michael and Caleb laugh]
Cherise: Those letters would have never made it.
Kat: No. Uh-uh. I cannot condone even BB guns. Sorry.
Caleb: So that morning at breakfast Hermione gets a lot of hate mail in response to people reading Rita Skeeter’s horrible piece about her, mostly talking about how Harry deserves better. But the worst by far is the undiluted Bubotuber pus that comes and gets all over her skin. Like what? That is a challenge…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: … to get that stuff in a letter where it works when it finally arrives.
Kat: Yeah. And Bubotuber is like my favorite word ever.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Yeah. I’m always worried I’m going to say that very strangely because…
Kat: Bubotuber.
[Michael and Kat laugh]
Caleb: … what a complicated word. But then one of the letters said ñ and this is the actual letter – “I read in Witch Weekly about how you were playing Harry Potter false and that boy has had enough hardship and I will be sending you a curse by next post as soon as I can find a big enough envelope.” So…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Well, one: let’s… first let’s… I just now thought about this. There are a lot of people concerned about Harry Potter that he does not know about.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: Yeah. I guess that’s probably a commentary on celebrity right there.
Caleb: Yeah. Exactly.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Caleb: But, second, is it really that easy to get a curse by mail?
[Kat laughs]
Cherise: Bill got one. I don’t remember which book or which chapter, but he had a pen pal in – I believe it was Brazil – and she wanted him to come there.
Kat: That’s right.
Michael: That’s right. I forgot about that.
Cherise: So she sent a cursed hat that shriveled up his ears.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Caleb: That’s right.
Kat: Wow.
Michael: I was wondering if you could send curses by mail because I was remembering there was a… for the Queen’s birthday a long time ago they did a spinoff short with Emma and Rupert and Dan where they’re trying to find the Queen’s missing purse and Hermione’s…
Caleb: Yeah. I remember that.
Michael: Hermione suggests that they send a temporary spell to all the Muggles who are out at Buckingham Palace, and if they speak the words in the spell they can actually possibly find the Queen’s purse. And I was like, can you even do that? Can you even send magic in an envelope? But apparently you can. [laughs]
Kat: You know, as much as I want magic to be real, thank God that’s not real because…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Imagine high school, every time you opened a locker, right?
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Kat: Imagine Washington, never mind high school.
[Caleb, Cherise, and Michael laugh]
Cherise: Yeah.
Caleb: High school is more devastating.
Kat: The world would cease to exist if we could send curses to people in the mail.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: I’m concerned about what would happen in Mean Girls if there was magic, okay, because…
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Just think on that for a second.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Sure. Yeah.
Caleb: [laughs] Anyway, they go next to their Care of Magical Creatures class and they’re dealing with new creatures called Nifflers. And these creatures sound the bomb…
Kat: They sound so cute.
Michael: Oh God.
Kat: Like little black fluffy things. I don’t know, that just sounds adorable.
Caleb: Yeah. So, where ñ oh, I had the description and then I lost it. Where did it go?
[Michael hums]
Caleb: Oh. Here they are. Okay. “[H]e found himself looking at a number of furry black creatures with long snouts. Their front paws were curiously flat, like spades, and they were blinking up at the class, looking politely puzzled at all the attention.” How adorable does that sound?
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Kat: I know.
Caleb: And they like shiny things. So they would be good things to have around.
Kat: What would we compare them to? What’s an animal that’s really cute and likes shiny things?
Caleb: When they first describe them, it made me think of moles, but definitely more cute and adorable than moles are.
Kat: Black fluffy creatures with long snouts.
Caleb: Well, yeah. So obviously moles aren’t fluffy, but I thought about the black and the snouts and digging for things.
Kat: You know what I kind of think of? I’m trying to think of the name ñ there was a video game. Was it like Q*bert or something?
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Cherise: Yeah!
Kat: I kind of picture Q*bert when I think of Nifflers.
Michael: [laughs] That’s adorable.
Kat: Because he was this round, fluffy thing with a long snout and little legs.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
Kat: I don’t know.
Caleb: Then it just gets more adorable because Harry gets his Niffler and it says, “Then he picked up a Niffler. It put its long snout in Harry’s ear and sniffed enthusiatically. It was really quite cuddly.”
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Caleb: That’s just so adorable! I can’t even handle that.
Kat: It’s pretty adorable. [laughs]
Michael: I have to say with this lesson, just to Hagrid’s credit, this was a very good lesson.
Kat: Mmm. Absolutely.
Michael: Because I know we’ve debated about this throughout and…
Caleb: He’s picked up his game.
Michael: Yes. And I think this is a nice showing that Hagrid can not only bring it with good interesting creatures, but he can also pick out creatures that aren’t completely dangerous and will kill you.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: I do love that that one Niffler makes to bite off Pansy Parkinson’s wristwatch. That’s pretty hilarious.
[Caleb laughs]
Michael: But I like that he has an awareness of creatures that aren’t necessarly dangerous but also fun and interesting. And it’s funny because I do agree with a lot of you with the problems of Hagrid being a teacher. But I just can’t help but cite this as an example of one of his better days.
Caleb: Yeah. No, I agree.
Cherise: I love Harry’s reaction when he’s walking down to class. They see the big crate and he’s like, “Oh no! Please don’t let this be a skrewt hatching.”
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: So the whole point of the Niffler lesson was for them to have… it was basically a contest to see whose Niffler could find the most gold, and Ron’s Niffler ends up getting the most. And of course when I first read this I was like, is Jo trying to do something there? And then I kept reading and I was like, of course she is. Because it sets up Ron remembering that he paid Harry with leprechaun gold for his Omnioculars at the World Cup. So that’s a little conversation as they’re walking back and Ron gets upset about it. Obviously this is a whole commentary on Ron not having nearly as much money. And it makes it even worse because Harry isn’t really able to hide the fact that he can’t remember, which implies that he has so much money that he can’t even keep up with it. Which is why Ron says, “It must be nice,” and then at the end, “I hate being poor.” Which is just so sad.
Kat: See, I think this is an Easter egg to make us think about the leprechaun gold and to think about Fred and George and why they are writing to Bagman. I think it’s an Easter egg.
Michael: Well, maybe. I think this definitely is partly that, but I think the prominant thing is that it’s just… because this is heartbreaking to read.
Kat: Oh, obviously.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Oh my God.
Kat: You cry buckets for Ron.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: I definitely think that… and this is going to sound awful, but what’s the point of this except to make us feel bad for Ron?
Caleb: Mmm.
Kat: And I feel that with Jo, everything always has more than one reason.
Caleb: Oh, yeah.
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: That’s true.
Cherise: I think she’s just… it’s more than midway through the book, but it’s kind of a reminder that leprechaun gold disappears.
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: Yeah.
Cherise: So we do feel bad for the Weasleys. But also, like Kat said, we get to the end thinking about Fred and George.
Kat: I think we’ve all had that moment where we’re like, “Oh man, it must be nice to have all that money.”
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: And I think we all feel for Ron in this moment. We’ve all been there, I’m sure.
Cherise: Yes.
Caleb: Yup.
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: But the hate mail continues for Hermione. And then Hermione questions… she’s not really… she handles it pretty well getting all of this. Especially considering she’s a pretty young girl, she’s got some tough skin about this.
Michael: Yes, she does.
Caleb: But she wants to know, how does Rita know all these secret conversations if she’s banned from the grounds? Especially the one she’s had with Viktor. That was a very intimate private conversation.
Kat: I like that she goes and checks with Moody…
Caleb and Michael: Yeah.
Kat: … and was like, “Did she have an invisibility cloak?” Because who else would think about that…
Michael: Very clever girl.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: … but Hermione to go check that as a possibility?
Caleb: That’s true.
Kat: She’s brilliant.
Cherise: We know Harry and Ron would never have thought of that.
Michael: Oh God, no.
Caleb: Never.
Kat: Definitely not.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: No way. So I was wondering… I can’t really remember, but I was wondering if anyone rememberred any theories they had when they first read the series about how does Rita Skeeter keep getting this amazing scoop.
Kat: No. I’m not a good detective.
Michael: No.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: I never…
Cherise: I had no clue.
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: And this just speaks to how well Jo is at writing Whodunit stories…
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: … which is clearly the case in The Cuckoo’s Calling, which is so good.
Kat: Oh, I have three chapters left. Don’t say anything.
Caleb: I won’t. You’ll love it, though.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: But then also… oh, I don’t even remember who says this? Was it Harry who said, “Maybe she had you bugged”?
Michael: Yup. That’s Harry.
Caleb: Because Ron wouldn’t have known. So Harry says, “Maybe she had you bugged?” Gah! So clever.
Kat: And Ron’s like, “Put fleas on her or something?”
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: I just love it. His naÔvety when it comes to Muggle things is hilarious. I absolutely love it.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: No, this is… yeah, this is so well-structured. And it’s so funny, too, just because we’re literally coming right off of the book that has Animagi.
Kat: I know!
Michael: As readers, we should know better. [laughs] I remember when I was reading it… I do remember in the very least that I didn’t even think of that as a possibility.
Kat: No. Definitely not.
Caleb: No, no way.
Kat: I never considered it. And this is the fourth clue we’ve had in approximately five chapters.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Yeah, she’s dropping them.
Kat: Yeah, not little hints either. Mammoth, giant hints.
Caleb: Right. And you mentioned Easter eggs earlier. Well, actual Easter eggs…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: … come from Mrs. Weasley. Hermione’s is much smaller than the boys’ eggs, and she’s pretty bummed about that. I don’t really understand what the whole point of that was. Am I missing something?
Michael: Oh, no. Why it’s smaller?
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Because Mrs. Weasley reads Witch Weekly, and she thinks that Hermione…
Caleb: Right, okay. So it’s just because she reads it and is just not pleased with Hermione.
Kat: Which… I remember being really disappointed in Molly.
Michael: Me, too.
Caleb: Oh, absolutely.
Cherise: Same here.
Kat: She’s Mama. She’s the mama. Come on. I feel like she’s the magical parent for both Harry and Hermione, and I just…
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: That’s your daughter. Whether she’s your blood or not, that’s your daughter.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Very petty.
Kat: Just awful. Awful
Michael: I was pretty surprised at that, too. I mean, I guess when you think about it, if she were to… I mean, God, she even plays favorites with Harry, and Harry is not her kid. But I would wonder if maybe that’s what’s happening here. But yeah, it is hard to see this all fall on Hermione, and to lose Mrs. Weasley’s faith with that, too…
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: … that is very disappointing, but…
Kat: It just… I mean, the only defense I guess I have of Molly is the fact that she doesn’t know them very well.
Caleb: Mhm, right.
Kat: Despite the fact that they are Ron’s best friends, she doesn’t know them because the time that they all spend at The Burrow is little.
Michael: And just like every character in the series, Mrs. Weasley is not perfect. And it’s a nice… even though it’s really hard to see it happen, I do like it because it shows that the press even has an influence on people directly in Harry’s life.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: For Mrs. Weasley to be taken in by the press is a pretty big thing, especially when you set that up for what happens in the next book.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s true.
Michael: So it’s hard to see, but I mean, it’s almost like when we were saying last week, with Sirius and Laura’s favorite quote, about how Sirius says the thing about how you treat your inferiors…
Caleb and Kat: Yeah.
Michael: … and then what happens with Kreacher in the next book.
Kat: And too, I was just thinking about it. There have definitely been times in my life where my mother – I mean, not necessarily toward me but toward people [whom] I loved and trusted and [whom] she knew really well – turned on it. So I guess it makes more sense.
Cherise: Well, how often do you think Ron writes home?
Kat: Never.
[Michael laughs]
Cherise: Wouldn’t this be a big topic for Ron?
Kat: No, never.
Caleb: No, Ron wouldn’t bring it up.
Kat: He doesn’t do his homework. He’s not going to write to his mom.
Michael: Yeah.
Cherise: True.
Caleb: And shortly after that, Percy’s letter comes – Percy’s response to Ron – and he’s a twit, as usual. Doesn’t really think anything is amiss with Crouch. He thinks he would know if there [were], and he tells them off for bothering him. Always helpful, that one.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: And then we jump two months into the future.
Caleb: Yeah, so there’s a really big jump, but then the last part of this chapter is “bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.”
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: It’s a crazy jump.
Kat: Because Easter in the UK is – what? – early April? Right? It’s a little bit after ours. Hold on, I’m looking.
Caleb: Sounds right.
Michael: Apparently, Easter is never fun at Hogwarts because they always have homework.
Caleb: Always.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: So I guess this year, Easter is on… oh, they are the same. Okay, it’s April 20. So I guess it only jumps forward a month. I thought it was a lot more than that. Oh, well. I thought it was a two-month jump.
Michael: It’s still a big leap, considering for a little bit of a point there, we were actually perfectly lined up with the events of the book.
Kat: I know. It’s so sad.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: I know.
Cherise: And Crouch has been wandering that whole month.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. I think that’s correct based on what Crouch Jr. says at the end of the book. And what you were saying, Cherise, with the eagle-owl… yeah, I mean, that would explain what happens later on in this chapter.
Caleb: So the champions get called down to the Quidditch pitch to get info for the third task, and they find that hedges are growing where there was once a field, and they’re growing into a tall maze, and they get the lowdown on the way it will work, that they will enter based on who’s leading in points and then who[ever] gets to the middle first wins. And there will be things they have to get through: creatures and spells and all sorts of stuff. That’s not really important right now.
Kat: So…
Caleb: What is important…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Were you going to say something, Kat?
Kat: Yeah, I’ve got this… where they’re talking about whoever gets to the center first wins…
Caleb: Uh-huh.
Kat: … then what the hell is the point of the first two tasks?
Caleb: Well, because they get a head start.
Kat: But that doesn’t matter.
Caleb: Yeah, no, but it does. That’s the only way they can make this happen. You get a head start, you get a chance to get through things quicker.
Michael: Well, isn’t there… I remember them saying that on the “What Are You Doing” movie when they were watching Goblet of Fire, and one of them was just like, “Rule of the maze: Just follow one wall until you get out. And that’s how you win a maze.” So it’s… I mean, there’s not really much… the thing that baffles me about this part of the chapter is that for some reason they felt the need to explain this task, but they’ve never explained the other two. Why do they get specially called out to be like, “This is a maze” versus before when they’ve never been told anything?
Kat: True.
Michael: That was just weird to me. When I noticed that I was just like, “Oh okay, we get an explanation this time.” Bagman pretty much tells them straight up what they’re going to be dealing with, so…
Kat: Well, how else is Harry going to be outside with Krum in the dark?
Michael: True. We’ve got to get them outside.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: For their secret man dates maybe, though.
Caleb: Whoops.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Kat: Where they chat Quidditch and braid each other’s hair.
Michael: Be careful. Rita Skeeter might be listening. [laughs]
Caleb: Whoa.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Nervous. But after they do get the lowdown on the task, Viktor wants a [as Krum] vord [back to normal voice] with Harry.
[Kat and Cherise laugh]
Caleb: So that’s… so the two of them stroll off to the forest and have a chat. And Viktor wants to know, basically, Harry’s intentions with Hermione, which Harry is pretty dumbfounded about. He makes a comment like…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: … here he is in the middle [of the forest] with a Quidditch star, talking about Hermione. And Vicky asks, “You have never… you have not…” He can’t even get the question out, which I find really funny. And Harry responds, “No,” and it says he says so “very firmly.” And in this moment Harmony shippers everywhere crash to the floor, wailing in anguish.
[Caleb, Cherise, and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Because Harry just shut the door on that.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Yup, he did.
Michael: I love this scene just because it’s the first time we actually get some character out of Viktor Krum.
Kat: Right.
Caleb: Yes. I love it.
Michael: It’s… I remember this being the moment like, “Oh, we finally get to talk to this guy,” and of course… and it’s just… it’s great because you have the same feeling Harry does. It’s like, “Oh my gosh, we’re talking to Viktor Krum, but we’re talking to him about a girl.” [laughs]
Kat: Right.
Michael: This isn’t a substantive conversation.
Kat: This would be like walking up to your favorite celebrity and talking about eggs or something totally insignificant.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Yes. But then things really start getting cray because all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Crouch, [whom] we have not seen for a long time, staggers out of the forest. Wait, huh? Why is he all of a sudden there? But aside from looking like a complete train wreck, he was, it says, “Muttering and gesticulating, Mr. Crouch appeared to be talking to someone [whom] he alone could see.” Harry walks up, and crazy Crouch is talking to Weatherby, obviously referring to Percy.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Even though no one is there. So he is talking to people [who] are not there, but then it gets a little deeper because he continues his nonsensical talking, he keeps asking for Dumbledore, but when Harry tries to get Dumbledore, he starts going off more. He says, “‘Don’t leave me’ he whispered, his eyes bulging again. ‘I… escaped… must warn… must tell… see Dumbledore… my fault… all my fault… Bertha… dead… all my fault… my son… my fault… tell Dumbledore… Harry Potter… the Dark Lord… stronger… Harry Potter…'”
Michael: Ugh.
Caleb: What a bomb.
Michael: This scene is… this scene still creeps me out.
Caleb and Kat: Oh, yeah.
Kat: Oh, God.
Caleb: Had they fully done this scene in the movie, imagine how dark it could have been.
Kat: God.
Michael: I wish they had.
Kat: I wish they had, too, and this…
Cherise: I do, too.
Kat: … was one of the big, big, big, big ones that I was so disappointed that…
Michael: And it’s funny that it’s cut out, too, because It’s very cinematic.
Kat: Very!
Michael: It definitely keeps you on the edge of your seat. It’s very tension-filled, and it is sad, too, because I mean, the way that they do deal with it is just like, “Yup, tongue thing and Crouch is dead in the woods.” [laughs]
Kat: Right, but they don’t even say that [he]’s dead because you just see him lying in a pile of leaves.
Michael: [laughs] Crouch taking a nap in the woods.
Kat: And then they never talk about him again.
[Caleb laughs]
Michael: Yeah, this is a great scene.
Kat: This would have fit with the “tone” they were going for for this movie.
Caleb: Mhm. Absolutely.
Michael: Oh yeah, it’s funny because this chapter almost is a great representation of Goblet of Fire‘s film’s tone because this chapter switches – like you were saying, Caleb, earlier with the house-elves – so quickly from being very funny to very serious.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: And this is one of those cases because here we are talking with Krum about girls, and then suddenly Crouch shows up, and he’s out of his mind.
Caleb: And guys, that’s where it gets you. That’s where the girls get you. You start talking about them, and then life gets rough.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Life lessons with Caleb.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Cherise: Can you imagine what’s going through Krum’s mind right now?
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: I mean, this type of stuff happens to Harry all the time, but Krum is probably like, “What the heck?!”
Michael: Yeah, I really like when Harry leaves Krum, and Krum is like, [as Krum] “Oh, God. Vhat, vhat, vhat? Vhy are you leaving?”
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Caleb: Yeah. ìI’m going back to Durmstrang and never coming back to this bloody place again.î
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: But Harry does finally get away from the very troubled Crouch, and he goes to Dumbledore’s office. The password of Sherbet Lemon that he used before does not work. Snape shows up, and Harry ends up shouting that he… it’s clear… it would be clear to Snape that something is very wrong, and Harry is very urgent. He has a very urgent purpose in trying to get Dumbledore, and he just gives us another reason to hate him. The first time you read it, you still are very invested in that Snape is a terrible person. But even for us, having read this series and know[ing] him in and out, it’s another reason to prove to people that Snape is not a hero nor is he fully redeemed. Sure, he has his good moments where he does great things, but he is still a horrible person at times because here it should have gone beyond whatever grudge he has against Harry. It’s one of those moments where you interact with somebody, and you know something is terribly wrong.
Kat: Yeah. And he’s smiling like a major jerk. Oh, God. I just…
Michael: No, I’m glad you pointed this out, Caleb, because I almost… I remember… still, reading this, I still hold Snape partially responsible for what ends up happening in this scene.
Kat: Abso-freaking-lutely.
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: Yes.
Michael: [laughs] Because if he had just helped Harry and told him what he needed to know, they could have gone back to the grounds quicker. I mean, I don’t know how long it took for this all to happen with Crouch Jr. coming out and stunning Krum, but regardless of that, yeah. Snape is perfectly to blame in this situation. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Absolutely.
Cherise: Oh, I’m sure Crouch Jr. was outside before Harry even went inside because I’m sure he was watching that map a lot.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: That’s right. He was looking at the map, so he was already on his way out. But I mean, regardless of what would have happened if they would have gotten out there sooner, yeah, this is really unacceptable behavior on Snape’s part.
Caleb: Yup. Finally, Dumbledore does come out, and he, with no questions asked, immediately follows Harry. And I think this is a brief moment where we see a glimpse of that Dumbledore will follow… he goes with Harry on just his word alone. He’s already that invested in him. Harry and Dumbledore get there, but Crouch is gone.
Kat: Well, wait. Wait. Can I bring something up?
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: So at the bottom of page 558 in the US edition… so Dumbledore asks Harry, “What did Crouch say?” And Harry says, “He said that he wanted to warn you, that he’s done something terrible. He mentioned his son and Bertha Jorkins and Voldemort. Something about Voldemort getting stronger.” And Dumbledore just says “indeed” and walks faster.
Caleb: Oh, yeah.
Kat: And I was like… this time it really clued me into the fact that you know what? Dumbedore knows, I think, almost exactly what’s going on. Obviously, he doesn’t know with the Invisibility Cloak and all that stuff, but Dumbledore knows that the ish has hit the fan.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Something is going down, and it concerns Voldemort. That one word.
Caleb: Right.
Michael: No, it’s pretty… I feel like it’s pretty telling what kind of a character Dumbledore is when… and how well Jo writes in this scene of amazing tension. You get the same sense of comfort when Dumbledore shows up that Harry does.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: It’s like, when you hear Dumbledore say, “Oh, indeed,” and not question anything and just keep going with Harry, it’s like, yeah, Dumbledore is clued into this. Thank God we went and got the right person.
Kat: Right.
Michael: So… because maybe something will be answered finally. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: And something else is [that] Snape just came out of his office, and we all know Snape had [informed him] about the Dark Mark getting darker on his arm, and I just feel like he could have already had that in his mind because Snape could have been like, “Look here, Dumbledore. It’s getting really dark and…”
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: So it was probably just like bam, bam, bam for Dumbledore.
Caleb: Mhm.
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: When they do finally get down there, Crouch is gone – to their eyes, anyway – and Viktor is Stunned. We see Dumbledore shoot a message to Hagrid, and the text is “He raised his wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of Hagrid’s cabin. Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird.” This is one of the first times – maybe the first time, I can’t remember – that we see this Patronus communication for… that is used between members of the Order of the Phoenix.
Kat: It definitely is the first time.
Caleb: Yeah. Because I remember when Jo explained it in a Q&A of some sort, and she said we’ve seen it… “You’ve seen it before,” and now I just realized that this is it.
Kat: Yup.
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: So that’s cool. And Dumbledore finally does revive Viktor, who says that Crouch attacked him. And then, lo and behold, Moody suddenly shows up, and he mentions that he [ran] into Snape on his way down there. And actually, we have an Audioboo discussing that point, so we’ll play that now.
[Audio]: Hi, guys. This is Olivia Underwood from the main site. I just have a quick question concerning the upcoming chapter. It’s about Crouch Jr. and the excuse that he gives when he appears in the woods when Dumbledore, Harry, and Hagrid are searching for Crouch Sr. And I just felt that the excuse that he gives, which is that he had a conversation with Snape, and Snape told him something about Crouch… I just felt that this was a bit of a poor excuse because if Dumbledore had tried to confirm with Snape later about seeing Mad-Eye, then Snape could have easily said, “Well, I never had that conversation. I never saw him.” So my question is “Do you guys think that this was a poor excuse, and if so, what could Jo have written instead that would have just cemented his alibi better? What would have been a suitable alternative?”
Caleb: All right. So yeah, that’s a really interesting question and something I didn’t… I mean, well, I guess I thought about but didn’t think of far enough. I mean, obviously, we now read with the knowledge of knowing what’s actually going on.
Kat: Right, because, I mean., I want to look back at the quotes but… yeah, Harry only briefly says “Mr. Crouch” once to Snape, and somehow that is the bit of information that Snape “passes on” to Mad-Eye Moody. I don’t know. That seems…
Caleb: Hmm.
Kat: That’s a little shady, and I had never really thought about that before.
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: And also, how was Mad-Eye Moody able to zone directly in on that location?
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: I don’t think Harry ever said, “This is where Crouch is,” and plus, I notice Snape is always everywhere. He’s always trying to get Harry into trouble, so if Snape did tell Moody that Crouch was there, don’t you think Snape would have tagged along?
Kat: Yeah. Actually, that’s a completely valid point. I think so.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: And I just looked back at the quote, and Harry definitely never mentioned where they were. He just said, “He’s down by the forest.” And the forest is huge, so…
Caleb: But Harry, being dense like he is at times, doesn’t pick up on it.
Cherise: But I’m surprised Dumbledore didn’t pick up on it.
Kat: I think he did, secretly.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: With that, I’m wondering why… I mean, because then Dumbledore says, “We have to go. We have to find Crouch.” And I almost wonder if he would’ve let Moody go off and do that if he suspected him of anything because then Moody goes off and finds him, and doesn’t he… if he hasn’t already killed him, I think he goes back and makes sure his body is where he wants it to be, and he transfigures it into a bone at that point.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: So… but the other thing I was going to say is “I do like this bit as far as being…” as far as how it relates to Snape because we brought this up before on the infamous “staircase of lies” scene when Moody tells Snape that Dumbledore allowed him to search Snape’s office, [to] which Snape is like, “Nope, that’s not possible.” And I like here that it’s another… it’s a reversal with that where now Moody is lying to Dumbledore about Snape. It’s really showing not only what we didn’t really realize fully, yet, about how much Dumbledore and Snape trust each other but also how much Crouch Jr. is inadvertently screwing this up.
Caleb: Mmm, yeah.
Michael: So this is his second… I do agree that this is a major slip-up on his part that really could have come crashing down, and I wonder if maybe later, between Dumbledore and Snape, this didn’t come crashing down.
Caleb: That’s true.
Michael: So…
Kat: Yeah, if they talked about it after the fact? I bet they did.
Caleb and Michael: Yeah.
Cherise: Oh, I bet they did too.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Oh, to be a beetle on that wall. I’m just kidding.
[Caleb, Cherise, and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Ah, I get it because Rita Skeeter was.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: But then, as if we didn’t have enough here for the party, Karkaroff shows up, and when he finds out what happened, especially to Viktor, he calls out Dumbledore for treachery and that it was all just this sham to try to get Hogwarts to win. Of course, Karkaroff is all about Viktor winning the Triwizard Cup like that’s the most important thing in the world.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Then he spits at the ground near Dumbledore’s feet, and then Hagrid, in a wonderful move, decides, “Mmm, I’m not going to have that.” I just love the way this is written: “Karkaroff spat onto the ground at Dumbledore’s feet. In one swift movement, Hagrid seized the front of Karkaroff’s furs, lifted him into the air, and slammed him against a nearby tree.”
Kat: Wouldn’t that break his bones?
Caleb: [laughs] I wish it would have.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: No, really! Hagrid is a big guy. He’s legitimately mad at this point, so I doubt he’s controlling his strength.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: I feel like that would have snapped him in two.
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: I think it’s the magic coming out the… how in the very first book… “a car crash kill Lily and James Potter? Nonsense!” I mean…
Caleb: Hmm.
Cherise: … I think it’s the same thing with Karkaroff as that.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Kat: Yeah, but bones still break.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb and Cherise: Yeah.
Caleb: I mean, he may have walked away with a couple of broken bones. Broken ribs, I bet.
Michael: Kat just wants carnage here.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: No, no, it’s not even that! I just feel like it’s slightly improbable that all he would really do is be gasping for breath. If a half-giant picked me up and slammed me against a tree it would freaking hurt!
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Come on! I don’t know.
Cherise: And I also see Karkaroff not being one to show weakness.
Michael: That’s true.
Kat: Sure. Fair enough.
Michael: So he probably does. You’re right. He has broken bones, but he’s not going to show anybody.
Caleb: So Dumbledore still intends… he thinks he’s got to find Crouch, but he sends… he knows Hagrid is maybe not in the best of places right now…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: … so he gets Hagrid to take Harry up to the castle. Dumbledore is very clear that whatever Harry thinks he needs to do today – send an owl or whatever – can wait until tomorrow. So it’s clear that this is now very ominous.
Michael: Mmm.
Caleb: On their way back to the castle, Hagrid remarks on Krum, then on Hermione seeing him, and he says, “The less you lot ‘ave ter do with these foreigners, the happier yeh’ll be. Yeh can’ trust any of ’em.” So it’s really interesting because Hagrid creates this idea that you can’t mess with foreigners. You can’t be fraternizing with the enemy. Obviously this is… Harry pulls out that Hagrid was talking to Maxime and he brings up the scene that he saw from the Owlery and Hagrid confirms that Maxime had tried to get back on his good graces, but he was not having it and that he thinks Maxime was just there to get information from him, just trying to use him. So Hagrid is going through a lot right now.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Yeah, he’s kind of in a rough situation.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Hagrid. Tempers are high.
Cherise: I love how, at the end, it says Harry is glad to be shot of Hagrid at this point in time. [laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Cherise: Because he’s like, “Oh I do not like…”
Caleb: He’s a bore.
Cherise: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah, no, I remember that as being… that’s one of the first time Hagrid – or Harry – really doesn’t want to be around Hagrid.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: So…
Kat: But this is Hagrid’s Gryffindor moment through and through, isn’t it?
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: I am so down with it too.
Michael: I like…
Caleb: It’s just like how dare you mess with… you spit at Dumbledore’s feet. Man, I would mess you up.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: I would come at you.
Kat: I would mess you up and I’m not a Gryffindor, so…
Michael: Well…
Caleb: I would come at you with both fists.
Michael: That scene where… when Karkaroff does that, that’s almost like what we were saying about how this whole bit is cut out of the movie. That particular scene with Karkaroff, I think, almost would be… if they had included it, it would have been a nice way to complete his story arch in the movie. Because his plot goes nowhere in the film, and he’s kind of supposed to be a red herring, but it doesn’t really work because it’s too obvious. [laughs] But this scene would have been a nice touch with that. Like, this is almost like the key scene that’s missing. So it is sad to see it cut.
Kat: Yeah, definitely the Crouch storyline and kind of everything that’s spotted along with it was what I was missing really the most from this movie. But again…
Michael: Because this…
Kat: … that’s a whole other show.
Michael: Well, it’s just that I think that is worth pointing out, just that this chapter is a great balance of not only character development but also of the plot. Like, there is a really nice balance of the two going forward in this particular chapter.
Caleb: So Hagrid – or rather Harry – gets away from Hagrid. He heads up to the common room to find Ron and Hermoine, and that is where our chapter ends.
Michael: And with that we’re going to take a brief pit stop into Pottermore this week.
[Pottermore, In Depth intro begins]
Narrator: Pottermore, In Depth.
[Sound of a quill writing]
Rita: Well, Harry, the Daily Prophet readers want to hear the in-depth scoop on you.
Harry: Umm, well, I…
Rita: Absolutely brilliant ñ ignore the quill ñ tell me more, Mr. Potter.
[Pottermore, In Depth intro ends]
Kat: Yay, it’s back!
Michael: It’s back! We have new content. We have now… what is it? Chapters… let’s see. 13 through 20 have opened up. And there’s a bit of new information on some key things that we’ve been discussing recently. The biggest stuff that we would like to talk about on this particular episode are our two schools that we’ve met in this book, Durmstrang and Beauxbatons. We should confirm, yes, that… in Pottermore it is pronounced [pronounces as “Bo-BAT-tons”] “Beauxbatons” but we’re not going to say it that way [laughs] because…
Kat: Because it sounds yucky.
Michael: Because it sounds dumb. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: So we apologize to anybody we offend for that, but we like [pronounces as “BO-batt-uhns”] “Beauxbatons” better.
Kat: It just sounds more French, doesn’t it? [pronounces as “BO-batt-uhn”] Beauxbaton.
Michael: [pronounces as “BO-batt-uhn”] Beauxbaton.
Caleb: Without the “s.” Beauxbaton.
Michael: Beauxbaton.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Beauxbaton.
Michael: But first we’ll explore a little bit about Durmstrang, which got a bit more meatier information. And also not only did this new information about Durmstrang drop information specifically about the school but also about the wizarding world in general. One of the biggest points right at the beginning is that it’s said that Durmstrang once had the darkest reputation of all 11 wizarding schools. So we now have confirmation that there are 11 wizarding schools. We assume within the world.
Caleb: One of them is in Texas.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: Caleb is determined [laughs] that one of them is in Texas.
Kat: I think the one in the US is probably in Salem.
Caleb: Ugh, no.
Michael: Yeah, that’s the witches…
Caleb: Well, we do know that there is one in Salem, but…
Cherise: Yes.
Caleb: I’m just saying.
Michael: We, at least, have to have another one on the other coast, right? Don’t you think?
Kat: Nah. East coast is best.
Michael: All witches and wizards go to the east coast.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: But…
Kat: Maybe there’s one… yeah, maybe. I don’t know. Alaska.
Michael: [laughs] Wow.
Kat: I don’t know.
Michael: I think that’d be in Canada then if we needed one up there.
Kat: Ah, sure, sure.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Hawaii. There you go. Can I go to that one, please?
Caleb: Oh my God.
Michael: Ooh!
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Michael: I wonder where you’d hide a wizarding school in Hawaii. In a volcano or something like that?
Kat: On its own island. Hello?
Caleb: Yup.
Cherise: Yup.
Kat: Oh, that would be the life.
[Michael laughs]
Cherise: Yup. There’s eight islands…
Kat: I think I’d purposely…
Cherise: It could be one that’s unplottable.
Kat: I think I’d purposely fail class.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: To stay there forever.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Just work there.
Michael: But we got a little information on the founders of Durmstrang and the people who lead it. As the summary says, it has twice, in its history, fallen under the stewardship of wizards of dubious allegiance or nefarious intent. The first of these unhappy men was Harfang Munter, who took over the school shortly after the mysterious death of its founder, the Bulgarian witch Nerida Vulchanova. So we do have confirmation that it was founded by a witch – a Bulgarian witch, nonetheless. Not necessarily confirmation that Durmstrang is located in Bulgaria, and Jo makes that clear a little later. But this is kind of where the roots of Durmstrang’s questionable past came to light.
“The second dark period in Durmstrang’s history came with the Headmastership of,” lo and behold, “Igor Karkaroff, an ex-Death Eater who fled his post upon the return from exile of Lord Voldemort, fearing the latter’s retribution.” And then we get a little bit about Karkaroff, kind of what we already know. There’s also mention of Gellert Grindelwald, who we all, I believe, knew went to Durmstrang. And she mentions that Durmstrang has undergone a renaissance recently with students like Viktor Krum. And she again confirms that she doesn’t even know where Durmstrang is. She states, “Although believed to be situated in the far north of Europe, Durmstrang is one of the most secretive of all schools in its whereabouts, so nobody can be quite certain. Visitors, who must comply with memory charms to erase their knowledge of how they got there, speak of vast, sprawling grounds with many stunning views, not least of the great, dark, spectral ship that is moored on a mountain lake behind the school, from which students dive in summertime.”
Kat: I call BS.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: She knows where Durmstrang is. She is just being a stubborn little nancy and not telling us.
Michael: [laughs] I like that, though. I like that she’s not telling us because…
Kat: No, I think it… yeah, it’s fine.
Michael: Well…
Kat: I don’t really care about where Durmstrang is, so…
Michael: Well, it’s fun just kind of… it keeps it a little more real for all of us, right? The idea that she doesn’t supposedly even know where it is. I do like, though, the bit about the memory charms. That’s a pretty intense requirement to ask of people.
Caleb: Yeah, that is.
Cherise: Yeah, that’s hardcore.
Michael: And that’s interesting, too, because that kind of confirms to me a discussion we’d had before about memory charms and how they work and the idea that the memory charm that was put on Hermione’s parents by her was a little different from the memory charm that Lockhart puts on people. Because this memory charm isn’t so drastic in that it makes them completely forget things. They don’t remember how they got there, but they still remember they were there.
Kat: It’s kind of like… and sorry to bring up Doctor Who for probably the twentieth time this episode…
Michael: Nobody is complaining.
Kat: … but in the fiftieth anniversary special, they visit the Black Archive and there’s… you never remember going there because it erases your memory when you leave. It just reminded me of that when I read it, that’s all.
Michael: So that’s what we learn on Durmstrang. And what we learn from Beauxbatons…
Kat: That their name is pronounced really stupid.
Michael: [laughs] It’s pronounced “BO-batton.” [laughs]
Kat: Ugh.
Michael: So perhaps the movie did, in fact, get it right.
Kat: No! Oh, so unsophisticated. It’s awful.
Michael: [laughs] “Thought to be situated somewhere in the Pyrenees, visitors speak of the breath-taking beauty of a chateau,” which Fleur somewhat confirmed in her description. It’s located in a mountaineous landscape and it “has a preponderance of French students, though Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Luxembourgians, and Belgians also attend in large numbers (both Beauxbatons and Durmstrang have a larger studentship than Hogwarts).”
Cherise: I… just real quick, Michael.
Michael: Yeah.
Cherise: I found that interesting because when Krum was speaking to Hermione…
Michael: Mhm.
Cherise: … during the Yule Ball, he’s like, “We have a castle that’s much smaller than this,” and… have you guys ever noticed how reading the books they use, what, maybe ten rooms in the whole Hogwarts castle, it seems like, for classes, and then the rest is just empty?
Michael: Mhm.
Cherise: I’ve always just questioned that. So are they just sardines in Durmstrang?
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Kat: Well, this boils down to the inaccuracy that has always surrounded how many students are at Hogwarts.
Michael: Jo can’t do math. We love you, Jo, but you can’t do math.
Kat: I mean, she says a thousand.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: And that is ridonculous. It’s just not possible. It’s just not possible.
Michael: Well… but even going along with that, Cherise, I suppose you could say that if Hogwarts really is as big as it is and it’s kind of just… like some of the rooms are just there because, tee-hee, magic, then perhaps Durmstrang is actually a little more like… maybe Durmstrang is just less mysterious, and maybe everything there is just… you know?
Kat: It’s not as ancient, maybe?
Michael: Yeah, that’s possible.
Cherise: Good point.
Michael: But yeah, so we get a sense, apparently, that there’s more students there, so there’s more than a thousand students at each school. There’s a lot of interesting backstory that’s not necessarily… doesn’t give a lot away necessarily about Beauxbatons, but about some famous people we’ve met in the past. “It is said that the stunning castle and grounds of this prestigious school were part-funded by alchemist gold, for Nicolas and…” [attempts to pronounce “Perenelle”]
Caleb: Perenelle.
Kat: Perenelle.
Michael: Perenelle? Nicolas and his wife…
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: Nicolas and his wife “met at Beauxbatons in their youth, and a magnificent fountain in the middle of the school’s park, believed to have healing and beautifying properties, is named for them.” So very Fountain of Fair Fortune type stuff going on there.
Kat: Very.
Michael: “Beauxbatons has always enjoyed a cordial relationship with Hogwarts, though there has been a healthy rivalry in international competitions…” and here we get a small information drop about the Triwizard Tournament itself. They have had a rivalry in international competitions “such as the Triwizard Tournament, in which Beauxbatons has 62 wins to Hogwarts’s 63.” So we have a confirmation that there have been over a hundred Triwizard Tournaments. Quite a bit more probably because, as we mentioned earlier in our idle conversation, this doesn’t even account for Durmstrang’s wins.
Kat: That means… so if they have them every four years, if you add 62 and 63 and multiply it by 4, that’s 500 years that the Triwizard Tournament has been going on, not counting other schools that may have won.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: So I guess Durmstrang, right?
Michael: Yeah, because they kind of imply that it’s really just between the three schools with the Triwizard Tournament, right? It’s never been like another school that’s replaced, as far as we know.
Kat: As far as we know, yeah.
Michael: So yeah, that… so we’ve got over 500 years, probably, that this has been going on.
Kat: So… and this book takes place in ’94 to ’95.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Right. Wait. [starts calculating] Yeah, ’94 to ’95. So I mean, that’s at least the 1400s that… wow, that’s crazy.
Michael: Well… and that’s interesting, too, because that kind of ties in to what we were talking about with the Goblet of Fire and its relations to the Holy Grail. And if you go back…
Kat: Oh! So true.
Michael: So we’re dating back to the Medieval Ages right there, just a titch before the Renaissance, but possibly earlier if we’re… I mean, we’d have to be going maybe closer to 1200s/1300s. But if you’re not… if we haven’t accounted for Durmstrang’s wins, that’s possible that it’s been going that long. But other…
Kat: Wow.
Michael: … students that are mentioned that have gone to Beauxbatons are… I’m assuming these are people who have actually been referenced in either mythology or actual history because we get mentions of ex-students such as… I’m so sorry, France. Excuse this.
[Kat laughs]
Michael: Excuse the following. Possibly just skip to the end of the episode. [laughs] Vincent Duc de Trefle-Picques. Oui, oui.
[Cherise and Michael laugh]
Michael: Who “escaped The Terror by casting a concealment charm on his neck and pretending that his head had already been cut off.”
Kat: But the interesting part, who escaped the Terror with a capital “T.”
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: I’m assuming this is a portion of French history. Is that…
Kat: But what is it?
Michael: I don’t know.
Kat: Does anyone know?
strong>Michael: I don’t know.
Kat: We should have Googled that.
Michael: See, France? This is why we apologized. [laughs] I wonder if there’s…
Caleb: I think it’s referring to… yeah, it’s a common reference. It’s the same thing as the Reign of Terror…
Kat: Okay.
Caleb: … like during the French Revolution.
Michael: Oh, okay.
Kat: Yeah, according to Wiki, it says the French terreur from Latin terror meaning “great fear.”
Caleb: Yeah. It’s when everyone was put to the guillotine.
Michael: Well, that makes sense based on what he did.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: We also have Luc Millefeuille.
Kat: “Mi-fuley”?
Michael: “Mi-fuley.” That sounds nice.
[Kat laughs]
Michael: “The infamous pastry-maker and Muggle poisoner.” And she does mention Fleur Delacour, who fought in the world-famous Battle of Hogwarts, as we all know. And it is also confirmed that she was “awarded medals of bravery from both the French and British Ministries of Magic,” which also confirms as well that there is a French Ministry of Magic.
Caleb: Indeed.
Michael: Madame Maxime is mentioned. As we know, she’s half-giant. She is “brilliant, elegant, and undeniably awe-inspiring.” So that’s all we get about her. But yes, Pottermore has given us a bit more information on what’s going on at the other schools in Europe.
Kat: Not much. I wish they were, I don’t know, a little more in-depth.
Michael: I’d like to know more about if there’s any differences in curriculum or anything like that.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: Like if there’s any special… since we do get a sense that Durmstrang, since they skewer more towards the Dark Arts, what are they learning exactly there? It would be interesting to hear a little more about that.
Cherise: Well, I know that in Book 7 – no, it was in this book, maybe, or Book 7 – where Fleur says that they don’t do their big testing until sixth year.
Michael: Hmm.
Cherise: So it is set up a tad differently.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. I don’t know, it just might have been interesting to learn more maybe about just daily life for wizards in another country. But at least we’re getting a little taste here, so maybe there will be more to come, since this is probably the most international of the Harry Potter books.
Cherise: I wonder if Beauxbatons learns Alchemy since…
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Cherise: … the Flamels were so…
Michael: I wonder.
Cherise: … important there.
Michael: Mhm. Because Pottermore confirmed that at Hogwarts, they learn Alchemy by demand of students, I guess. Like in upper years. But yeah, that would be interesting to see if that’s like a staple of their curriculum since Flamel went there.
Kat: Okay, so now we’re going to hop into our Podcast Question of the Week for this week, and I think it’s a good one. It had me scratching my head while I was coming up with it, anyway. So my question to you guys is, the Witch Weekly article that we saw in… I believe was the last chapter? In this chapter, causes quite a bit of personal mayhem for Hermione. First with Molly and then with Viktor. So I’m wondering, what is it about the article that would make it believable to someone like Molly or someone like Viktor, the person that would supposedly miss Hermione the most? Is it something about Hermione that makes the article believable? Or is it a personal insecurity with Molly or Viktor? It’s something that’s kind of always bothered me about that article, so I’m really curious to hear what you listeners think about that. So go answer it on the website, alohomora.mugglenet.com.
Michael: Definitely a lot to think about with that one, considering how much impact the press is going to be having in future installments.
Kat: Right. And I feel like it’s one of those questions that never really gets answered.
Michael: Definitely.
Kat: So let us know what you think.
Michael: [laughs] But before we close up the show, we would like to thank our guest, Cherise. Thank you so much for being on the show.
Cherise: Well, thank you guys for having me. It’s been so much fun.
Michael: Yeah, no, you were a great guest. Thank you for really thinking outside the box and really… that observation about the eagle. Things like the eagle owl and things like that. You really went the extra mile, so thank you very much.
Cherise: Oh, you’re welcome. Glad I could help contribute.
Michael: One might say you have an eagle eye for these things.
[Cherise laughs]
Kat: Oh!
Caleb: Nice.
Cherise: Good one.
Michael: Haha, my turn for a corny pun. Yay!
Kat: Good job! Yay!
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Well, if you would also like to be a guest host on the show, you can find out what it takes to do that by going to alohomora.mugglenet.com and going to the Be on the Show page and you will find all about what is required. Also please make sure you have appropriate audio equipment.
Kat: And of course in the meantime, if you want to stay in contact with us, you can find us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, facebook.com/openthedumbledore, or on our phone number, 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes. Seriously, we need new people. We need all the listeners in the world to find the love of Harry Potter. So if you subscribe and you leave us a review, more people will find us, so you should do that.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: And then also, as you heard on this episode, you can leave us an Audioboo, which is a type of message that we played on the episode. alohomora.mugglenet.com. It’s free – all you need is an Internet connection and a microphone, and you could hear yourself on the show, like the lovely callers that we had today.
Michael: And of course, now that Hagrid’s Care of Magical Creatures lessons are getting interesting, you’ll want to start attending again, and they’re outside, so you need…
[Kat laughs]
Michael: … some long-sleeved T-shirts. You’ll also need some short-sleeved T-shirts because that Third Task is coming up and you want to be comfortable. You will also need tote bags for all your books, sweatshirts, flip flops, water bottles, travel mugs, and more, and those are all coming soon and some of them are already there in our store, our Alohomora! store. We also have now Mandrake Liberation Front and Desk!Pig shirts available. And we have over 80 products to choose from in our store, so make sure [to] check that out. We also have ringtones from when you’re off of the Hogwarts grounds so you can hear our theme song as your ringtone.
Kat: You know what my favorite product in our store is? It’s the little doggy bibs that we have now.
Caleb: Oh my gosh.
Michael: Oh, I haven’t seen those yet.
Kat: Yeah, we have little doggy bibs that say “Minerva is my homegirl” and it’s the cutest thing ever.
Caleb: Yes!
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: I love them.
Michael: So you can dress up your Niffler with it. [laughs]
Kat: Yes! Oh, perfect! Perfect.
Caleb: There you go.
Kat: I love it. And actually, the funniest dog bib is the Desk!Pig one because it’s like, “Would you eat the Desk!Pig?” on your dog. It’s just really funny.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Also, make sure you check out our smartphone app, which is available seemingly worldwide. The prices will vary depending on location. And on that app, you will find great things like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much more. And that’s going to do it for this week’s episode of Alohomora!
[Show music begins]
Caleb: I’m Caleb Graves.
Michael: I’m Michael Harle.
Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 66 of Alohomora!
Michael: [as Karkaroff] Open the Karkaroff. No, sorry. Dumbledore.
[Show music continues]
Caleb: Am I still here?
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: You are, yeah.
Cherise: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah. [laughs] It’s gone really quiet.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: I thought it just broke off mid-sentence, so whoops.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: All right.
