Transcript – Episode 86

[Show music begins]

Caleb Graves: This is Episode 86 of Alohomora! for May 31, 2014.

[Show music continues]

Caleb: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.

Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.

Noah Fried: I’m Noah Fried. And I’d like to introduce our special guest, Sue Smith. I met Sue at MISTI-Con – actually, we all did – and then Sue wanted to buy me a Butterbeer and I let her and then I bought Sue a Butterbeer.

Sue Smith: My first one!

[Kat laughs]

Noah: Now, Sue, did you drive all the way to MISTI-Con to see us?

Sue: Actually, I did. True story.

Kat: That was sweet of you.

Sue: Well, it was… I had literally never had a conversation about Harry Potter with anybody. And I had been listening to your show for a while and I really… I was just inspired. And New Hampshire is beautiful; it is just the next state up and so I drove up by myself and fangirled my way into meeting you guys. I have to say, for all the fans, you guys are as nice in person as you are on the show. I have to say.

[Caleb laughs]

Kat: You’re too nice. [laughs]

Caleb: Thank you.

Sue: It was a great time and I’m really just absolutely thrilled to be here. Thank you very much for having me.

Kat: What house are you?

Sue: I am Ravenclaw.

Kat: Oh, all right! Caw! Welcome.

Sue: Yay! I know.

[Kat and Noah laugh]

Caleb: I feel like we haven’t had a Gryffindor guest in a very long time and I don’t know why this is.

[Sue laughs]

Kat: It’s because you haven’t been around, Caleb.

Caleb: I haven’t been around?

Kat: I don’t know. Were you… when was the last…

Caleb: I was on just a couple of episodes ago.

Kat: Oh, okay. Well, then maybe that’s it. I don’t know.

[Sue laughs]

Caleb: And I mean, even on episodes that I haven’t… I feel like almost all of our guests are Ravenclaws or Hufflepuffs.

Kat: Yeah.

Sue: You had a Slytherin last week!

Kat: We did.

Caleb: Slytherin last week, right. We had a Slytherin, but we haven’t had a Gryffindor guest. I’m a little sad, so…

Kat: Well, coming up soon, hopefully. Maybe. We’ll see.

Caleb: Right. But we are glad that you are here, Sue.

Sue: Thank you.

Kat: Yes, thank you for joining us.

Sue: This is my favorite chapter. Well, one of them.

Noah: Yes! And this chapter is “The Woes of Mrs. Weasley.” If you haven’t read this chapter, listeners, you should because you’ll really enjoy the show a little bit more if you’ve read the chapter before because you’ll have your own notes to play off of as we talk about it. So go ahead and do that.

Kat: And we wanted to let everybody know that today’s Alohomora! is brought to you by Harry’s. Please visit and use the promo code “Open” to save five dollars off of your first purchase.

Caleb: So before we start talking about this week’s chapter, we’re going to look at some of your comments from our discussion last week. And the first comes on the topic of Harry’s trial; the time being changed. And this comes from Alan2xtreme on the main site, and it says,

“There was a small debate about whether or not the ministry actually sent an owl to Harry in regards to the change in his hearing… I was wondering, if 12 Grimmauld Place is both unplottable and the subject of a Fidelius Charm, is it possible for the owl to deliver the letter?”

And following up on that comment, RebeccaTheRavenclaw said,

“Yup, I’m thinking you’ve found a loophole. Also, the wording is important here, I believe Fudge says ‘an owl was sent to you’ so I think an owl could be *sent* to Grimmauld Place by someone who wasn’t in on the secret, or at the very least, an owl could be sent to a person in the home (perhaps not the location itself) but maybe it can’t be recieved there? It’s possible the owl was sent to Harry, wherever he was at the time, (like we see with Harry addressing letters simply to ‘Sirius’ or even more vaguely to ‘Snuffles’) but maybe when the owl reached the place, or near the place, it had to turn around and go back to the Ministry.”

Kat: Hmm.

Sue: Yeah. I like that it’s more to the person, rather than the place. And again, there are two examples of that, right? When he just says, “Send this to… take it to Sirius.” It’s a good point.

Kat: Yeah, but I mean, that would mean the letter would have to have some sort of tracker on it, right? To follow the person.

Sue: It’s magic!

Noah: No, we can’t just say it’s magic. There are explanations to everything, Sue.

Sue: Sometimes it is magic!

Kat: No, I mean, that’s true; sometimes it is magic.

Noah: Oh.

Kat: I don’t know. I am, I guess, in the… I think that they just sent it to Privet Drive and were like, “Eh, whatever, we know he’s not going to get it. We don’t care.” So that’s my answer and I’m sticking to it.

Noah: I mean, I’m sure that was definitely their attitude.

Kat: Oh yeah, I’m sure it was.

Caleb: Yeah, I mean, I just think that… we see a lot of examples, though, that letters are being sent and they know exactly where the person is. And the Sirius example that Rebecca brings up is a really good point. So I’m really confounded by this.

Kat: Yeah, but Hedwig is the only owl that has ever delivered to Sirius at Grimmauld Place, right? And Pig?

Caleb: Yeah, but he also delivered when Sirius was elsewhere. In hiding.

Kat: Right, but I think that’s because it’s Hedwig. Right? And not just any random owl. I don’t think any random owl would be able to find Snuffles.

Caleb: Hedwig is maybe just a little bit above the average owl? [laughs]

Kat: Well, I mean, obviously. But no, I think it’s because…

Caleb: She’s familiar with him?

Kat: Yeah, yeah. And they’re probably in contact or something. I don’t know. Maybe they can communicate when Sirius is in dog form?

Caleb: Yeah, I think the big thing that we can probably all agree on is that however the Ministry sent it, they didn’t really care if it got there at all. They just sent it for the sake of saying they sent it. And whatever, if Harry got it or not.

Kat: Yup. Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more.

Caleb: All right. Well, the next comment comes on the topic of Mrs. Figg and being able to see the Dementors. And this comes from The Art of Spying on the main site:

“Although some of the podcast hosts and guest felt that perhaps Mrs. Figg as a Squib could not see the Dementors, I must respectfully disagree – I think Mrs. Figg did see the Dementors – Fudge asks the question, and she indignantly says, “Yes, we can!” (OP 143) – moreover, she was able to describe their attack on Harry and Dudley (OP 144), plus describe how it felt – (OP 144) As to Fudge knowing about Umbridge sending the Dementors, I agree that he was not in the loop on that one – Umbridge specifically states that Fudge did not know she had sent the Dementors (when she admits to being the one who sent them) and that she decided to take matters in her own hands and did so on her own, in part because everyone was complaining about Harry but no one was doing anything ‘to silence him.’ (OP 747).”

Noah: Balderdash.

Kat: What part?

Noah: I don’t believe Mrs. Figg could see the Dementors. I think she fabricated that story to try and protect Harry.

Caleb: Oh my God! She absolutely can see them. I have no doubt that she can see them.

Noah: No.

Kat: See, I am with Noah on this one, actually. I don’t think she can see them, either. I think Dumbledore coached her.

Caleb: I don’t think that Dumbledore would put such a lie at risk as a witness for Harry.

Kat: I think that she could feel them, very much like Dudley could, and she has probably read about them and knows about them and has seen pictures of them…

Noah and Sue: Yes.

Kat: … and so is very knowledgeable – I mean, as much as she can be – but I don’t think she saw them.

Noah: Exactly.

Caleb: I guess I’m on my own here, but I totally think she can see them.

Kat: She got there too late. She couldn’t… unless she saw them flying away.

Noah: And I will… I know it’s the movie canon, but at least in the movie she’s describing them and then it doesn’t feel real until she talks about what they feel like, and that’s definitely the sense in the courtroom.

Kat: Yeah.

Sue: And really, we’re limited as to what we really know about Squibs. We don’t really get a lot of information about them. But I would really think that she wouldn’t be able to see them. Feel them, for sure, because we know that that’s in another book, just how Dementors affect humans…

Kat: Yeah.

Sue: … but in seeing them? If Dumbledore did coach her on her testimony, obviously it’s with good intention. But I still wonder…

Noah: I don’t think he would have coached her. He would have just offered her up as a witness and, again, let the magical universe work itself out on its own as he does sometimes.

Sue: Yeah.

Kat: Maybe. Did you guys see that somebody actually made the Squib website for us like you asked?

Noah: Do you have the address? Because I just wanted to mention that.

[Sue laughs]

Caleb: So funny.

Kat: I don’t have the address but it’s on our Twitter. We retweeted it.

Noah: We did.

Kat: So go to our Twitter. It’s @AlohomoraMN, and you guys can see it there. It’s great. It’s really awesome.

Noah: Yeah, her name is Lauren, and she answered my call. She created a Squib website and she’s still developing it. She just sent me a message not a hour ago saying that she’s developing different pages about what to expect if you think your child might be a Squib and how to associate them in society…

Sue: That’s cool.

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: So claps to you, Laura.

Noah: If you have any ideas about this site or other projects just email me. It’s just really cool that I can just say something spontaneous and somebody actually jumps on it because why not? It’s a podcast.

[Sue laughs]

Kat: It’s true.

Caleb: All right. Well, the final comment comes on the topic of Dumbledore being at the trial, and this comes from dustcharm on our forums, and it says,

“I love Dumbledore in this chapter. I don’t like how he ignores Harry, but I know why he does. What I love about it is like you said – Dumbledore is so passive-aggressive, and never outright blames any specific person for anything, yet still makes the guilt known. He lets [it] be known that he thinks there has to be a guilty party within the Ministry who sent the Dementors. … I have always loved how calm Dumbledore is in these types of situations. … He’s on a whole other level than everyone else – to me it’s like his level of intelligence and reason is so far beyond everyone else that when people contradict him, he just lets it roll off his back.”

Kat: Passive-aggressive? I don’t know if that’s the word I would use to describe Dumbledore. Because that…

Noah: He’s not very aggressive.

Kat: No, I mean…

Caleb: He definitely is kind of passive-aggressive when he indirectly implies that, “Well, I know no one from the Ministry would blah, blah, blah.”

Noah: That’s true.

Kat: That might be the only example of that, though. I don’t think in general that’s how he is.

Caleb: Yeah, I would agree. I don’t think he is in general, but when dealing in this formal setting I think we definitely see it happening.

Kat: Yeah, well, it’s not like he can outright come out and say it. He’ll get thrown in jail.

Caleb: Right.

Noah: Maybe it’s just the terminology. Not so much passive-aggressive as just very witty. Brilliant.

Sue: Well, he also lets Fudge’s own words… he hangs himself by Dumbledore remaining so calm in this situation.

Noah: Right.

Sue: All of a sudden you see Fudge just getting more agitated and agitated. He’s definitely in control of the situation here with Harry. It is sad, though, as she said earlier in the comment, how he ignores Harry. And obviously we find out how hard that is for him to do and why he does it but it is hard to watch through this whole book.

Kat: That’s true. He explains it in my favorite chapter in the entire series.

Sue: Oh my God, right?

Kat: My favorite chapter. That is still nine months away, but I’m so excited to get there.

Sue: Yeah, I know.

Kat: That was a good comment. I like that. Thought-provoking.

Calen: Yup, I agree. And there are a lot of other great discussions on the main site and forums, including what if the Ministry trial decision had gone the other way, on Umbridge and Fudge, and a lot more. So definitely head over to the main site and forums to check those out.

Kat: Yeah, our comments every single week just… more and more people are commenting and having these amazing discussions and we can’t thank you guys enough for sharing it with your friends and getting the word out there because we have a lot of people reading Harry Potter around the world right now and it’s really exciting. That’s all I’m saying.

Caleb: Absolutely.

Sue: Somebody new everyday.

Kat: Yeah, absolutely. And of course now we’re going to jump into our Podcast Question of the Week responses from last week. Just to recap that question, it was, “What does it take to produce a corporeal Patrons? In other words, why is it such a big deal? Does it require, perhaps, a certain degree of emotional intelligence and that’s why it’s impressive Harry can create one at such a young age?” So we got a ton of responses, as usual. Our first one here comes from Surprisingly Swishy. It says,

“On the surface level, it seems contradictory that adolescents would be worse at the incantation than adults. Childhood is supposed to be a golden period, a happy and painless time. It’d seem that school-aged witches and wizards would have a large supply of happy memories to chose from and fewer experiences with heartache, loss, and other emotions Dementors would feed off. It would not only be easier for them to cast the Patronus, but the Dementors would [also] have less effect anyway. Interestingly, it’s the character who lacked a childhood who was able to cast one.”

So I thought that was a really interesting comment. I guess I’d never thought about it that way. What do you guys think?

Noah: So why don’t they teach Patronuses at an earlier age?

Kat: I mean, that’s the question, isn’t it? I don’t know.

Sue: Well, you need to be able to focus, really be able to focus. And I think it’s just the nature of kids that it’s really hard to do.

Noah: That’s great.

Sue: There are emotions we see in Harry throughout this chapter that… it’s almost… you have to remember that these are kids, and for him to be able to keep his emotions – we think it coming right down into that wand and out – it takes a lot, and especially given what Harry’s been through too, it’s amazing that he can do it.

Noah: Yeah, I totally agree. I think though the child might have that unbridled energy and happiness, but without the focus and the recall of the memory, he can’t cast the spell.

Sue: Right. I think focus is the main thing. You need to be able to be – with all magic – be able to focus into that wand is the whole thing.

Kat: But are you saying there are young kids out there who don’t focus?

Sue: No, but I think…

Noah: In general.

Sue: Yeah, in general, yeah.

Noah: For kids to focus.

Kat: Okay. Yeah, sure. Fair enough.

Noah: Maybe. I don’t know if… maybe that’s not… you don’t think that’s true, Kat?

Kat: I mean… I don’t know. I kind of agree with this comment. Kids are more pure and more happy.

Sue: True.

Kat: I don’t know. Anyway, our next comment here comes from Saiyan Girl. It says,

“The interesting thing is that this technique of ‘conjuring’ a happy memory or the image of a safe place is actually taught to people with depression in therapy. They’re taught to find an image or memory that can form a safeguard to the intrusion of the overwhelming darkness they experience on a daily basis. The Dementors always made me wonder if Jo herself had been taught this technique in therapy as well; she has mentioned in the past that she had counseling while writing the first book, and again later on in the series.”

I thought that was a good thought, too, because Jo has definitely mentioned the Dementors…

Sue: Yeah.

Kat: … equate to depression for her.

Noah: I would also ask Saiyan Girl if she thought the Kamehameha wave in a way was kind of like a Patronus.

Kat: The what?

Noah: It’s not important. It’s a Dragon Ball Z

Kat: I was going to say, is this a PokÈmon reference or something ridiculous like that?

[Sue laughs]

Noah: It’s Dragon Ball Z. Saiyan Girl knows.

Caleb: So confused right now.

Kat: Hmm. I just thought that was a really cool comment.

Caleb: Yup.

Kat: Our last one here is from Cassandra1447. It says,

“Given that the majority of Dumbledore’s Army manages to produce a corporeal Patronus, I tend to believe it doesn’t require emotional maturity to any special extent. I definitely don’t think it requires having gone through an emotionally arduous experience since most of the DA hasn’t had those experiences (as far as we know at least). I do wonder if the strength of the Patronus varies depending upon your emotional fortitude. Harry has an especially strong Patronus – could this be because of the strength needed to overcome the struggles in his life and still remain compassionate and friendly and hopeful? I don’t mean to contradict my first statement – it’s not that Harry understands/controls his emotions better; it’s that he is emotionally strong and capable of enduring more negative emotions than most other people.”

Noah: Yeah, yeah. I totally agree with Cassandra’s second point and not her first.

Kat: Elaborate.

Caleb: Okay, you go first.

Noah: I like what she said about the need to… fighting one’s own personal darkness and that being… sort of allowing you to really have a bigger emotional strength, or be able to produce larger Patronuses. Patroni?

Kat: [laughs] Patronuses, I think.

Noah: Patronuses.

Sue: Yeah.

Noah: So I think… I don’t know that she contradicts her first point, but I definitely jive more with her second point.

Caleb: I think she’s more saying that you don’t need to have gone through the experience to be able to do the corporeal Patronus, but Harry’s experience of having had gone through more certainly helps him in that regard and is why it is a little easier for him and his is a little bit, as we know, is more effective than the people he is teaching in Dumbledore’s Army.

Kat: Right.

Noah: You don’t have to, but it suggests that if a Patronus is stronger for Harry, then that’s a big deal. But maybe the emotional intelligence is like where the magic comes out of, or the Patronus magic comes out of. So if it’s… then we’re sort of getting to the fundamentals of why this magic works in the first place.

Kat: Yeah, I would agree with that. I definitely think that it comes, obviously… I think a lot of magic comes from your experiences and your emotion and your maturity and all of the above. I think it has less to do with how good you are at things but kind of how in touch you are with yourself.

Caleb: Yeah. I’d buy that.

Sue: Yeah.

Kat: But I mean, he has his father’s Patronus, which is super exciting, so…

Noah: I don’t really know the significance of him having his father’s Patronus. It’s interesting, but he’s very different from his father.

Caleb: Well, you guys know that – since we’re talking about fathers – Father’s Day is coming up on June 15, well under a month away. Do you guys know what you’re going to get your dad?

Kat: A gift, probably. I don’t know. My father is incredibly hard to buy for.

[Caleb and Sue laugh]

Noah: I have no idea what I’m going to do, but you know, Caleb, what would Harry have gotten his dad if his dad was still alive?

Kat: How did I know you were going to turn this into a question? Something affordable, classy, and probably not at all magical because Harry is probably not the best gift giver in the world.

Caleb: Well, actually, I think I know the perfect gift Harry would have given his dad: nothing other than a shaving kit from Harry’s Quality Men’s Shaving Products.

[Kat and Sue laugh]

Caleb: What’s better than something that shares his name and a father could use? And I have to say, I recently used Harry’s products, and it’s a pretty magical experience. I used my Harry set for the first time this past week, and I’m already a big fan of the Harry’s shaving cream and razor. They gave me a closer and smoother shave than anything else I’ve used lately. And Harry’s has a special Father’s Day shaving set that comes with a chrome razor for dad, a child-sized razor toy, and a shave guide to share.

Kat: Aww.

Caleb: You can even make the gift personal by engraving both handles with initials. Pricing is reasonable for a gift: $30 for the set, $40-45 with engraving. And you can even get free shipping if you order by June 4, and expedited shipping is available through June 11. So head over to for this great gift and more. It has the nameset of the Chosen One after all. Remember to use the promo code “Open” (O-P-E-N) to save $5.00 on your first purchase.

Noah: And don’t shave your head unless you want to look like Voldemort.

Kat: [laughs] That is the important key…

Sue: Good point.

Kat: That is the key, that is the key. That’s really cute, I think… I don’t know… that’s just pretty cool. Maybe he would’ve gotten one of those for him, since it does share his name and all.

Sue: I don’t know

Noah: And now we’re going to jump right into the chapter discussion.

[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9 intro begins]

Male voice: Chapter 9.

[Sound of ruffling and clinking]

Male voice: “The Woes of Mrs. Weasley.”

[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 9 intro ends]

Noah: So the chapter begins with the courtroom scene ending. Harry has just been dismissed of all crimes against him. He is walking out, he meets a couple of faces that we know – Minister Fudge, Dolores Umbridge – and then Lucius Malfoy doing some background dealings with Fudge that he walks by. Then we get back to Grimmauld Place, there’s some jumping and dancing – we’re going to talk about that later – because Harry has just been freed, then a great notice comes from Hogwarts that Ron and Hermione have been made prefects. Hurray, party! Harry is fuming jealous and then guilty of that jealousy – we’re going to talk about that, too. Then there’s a big party because we need a little bit of happiness in Grimmauld place, and then the Boggart scene where of course Molly will confront her deepest darkest fear. So this is a loaded chapter; it’s one of my favorites.

Kat: Mhm.

Noah: First and foremost, what do you all think of this chapter? I know… Sue, what’d you think?

Sue: Yeah. Well, again I’m so grateful to be on this chapter, I think, for two reasons: one, for example when Harry comes home, I just… every time I read this or listen to it on the audiobook and the kids are dancing, “He got off, he got off!”, I can just imagine that scene and it always makes me laugh everytime. To go from that page – and we’ll talk about it further – to four pages later, dealing with the woes of Mrs. Weasley, I cry every time. And so for a book to be able to go, for me personally, those emotions in just a few pages from laughing out loud to crying is really just a testament to this story as a whole. And I like how in this one particular chapter you get that because this is a funny story. These kids are funny and there’s a lot of humor in it, but we’re also dealing with some really big issues, some scary stuff that’s going on. And I think this chapter in particular demonstrates that really nicely, the humor and the sometimes real sadness that’s comprised in these books, and there’s just so much in it, too.

Noah: Caleb, Kat?

Kat: It’s a long chapter.

Caleb: It is.

Kat: No, listen, I love the whole book, man, so…

Noah: How long is this chapter? Seventeen pages? Twenty pages?

Kat: Twenty-seven.

Noah: Wow. No, there’s a lot into it and Harry’s consciousness just… I’m really tapped into his emotions in this chapter. He just goes up and down.

Sue: Right.

Noah: Sometimes he’s just super happy, other times he’s super dark.

Caleb: Bipolar.

[Kat and Noah laugh]

Noah: Yes. Completely. But you know, he’s also sixteen. He did have that thing with the guy at the end of the…

Kat: Actually he’s fifteen. But that’s cool, that’s cool.

Noah: He’s fifteen.

Caleb: You also just turned “the thing with the guy” – Cedric dying – into some weird relationship.

[Noah laughs]

Kat: There’s also that.

Caleb: You made it sound like some weird relationship that he had.

Noah: Yeah, he’s going through some really tough stuff. So I’m just going to jump into my first point – my first main point about this chapter – that I like to call the Fred/George/Ginny complex. So this is just something I’ve been thinking about. Ginny, as we know, or I think we talked about on last episode, she’s not as much of a character obviously as Ron or Hermione [is] for Harry, so we don’t see her as much. So I’m interested in where her parts come out, and a lot of times this isn’t the first time she is doing something along with Fred and George, and I wonder how much she is like Fred and George. She seems to be this joker, but she’s also kind of a peripheral character to Harry a little bit. She is not part of his inner circle with Ron and Hermione; she’s right outside where Fred and George probably are, so maybe that’s why she finds herself there. But when Harry comes back and they’re saying “He got off, he got off!”, Ginny is right there with Fred and George. So I’m wondering from everybody here, how much is Ginny actually like them that we just don’t see that part of her character? Or maybe her humor hasn’t quite come out yet because she’s still a little nervous.

Kat: How much is Ginny like Fred and George?

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: I think that she has their ballsy brave side, but she has the better sense, I would say, of… I don’t want to say Percy because he’s a d-bag…

Caleb: Worst ever.

Kat: … one of the older brothers, certainly not Ron; he has very little sense. I think that she’s a really good mix of all the boys, to be honest.

Caleb: Yeah, I brought it up several episodes ago that I think that the twins and Ginny are very close and we don’t really see that happen a lot, and I think this is a really good case of that happening.

Kat: Yeah, agreed.

Caleb: I think the three of them are much closer than either of the parties are closer to Ron.

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: What do you mean by parties, do you mean the other siblings?

Caleb: The twins and Ginny. They’re closer with each other than either one of them are with Ron.

Sue: Well, we do hear about them playing Quidditch a lot when they’re at the Burrow, and I think to be a girl, being the only daughter, that is bound to affect your personality. Maybe she’s more comfortable with guys because she’s grown up with them. We do hear… we know that she has girlfriends at school, and she doesn’t usually sit with them on the Hogwarts Express…

Noah: I just want to see more of her jokey side. I feel like we don’t get to see it too much.

Sue: Hmm. Well, this is definitely a silly scene.

Caleb: Yeah.

Sue: And I think that it’s… again, it always just cracks me up, but I think we see her with Hermione sometimes too. Though she… when they’re…

Noah: Is she one of the boys? Is she a tomboy?

Sue: Ginny?

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: Yeah. I would say so.

Sue: I think so. Yeah.

Noah: And yet she’s kind of a tomboy, but at the same time she’s also sort of a player. She dates.

Sue: Yeah.

Noah: She meets other people.

Sue: Yeah, but again I think, growing up in a family of boys, when they’re not in school, that’s who she’s around.

Noah: Yeah.

Sue: Except for when Hermione comes, which is usually every summer. But so I have a daughter and she’s… I have two older boys. And there’s always boys around and she’s… to this day, she’s still very comfortable talking with guys. She has girlfriends that they still can’t really talk to guys. But she’s very comfortable talking with boys and I think that comes from just being around them and Ginny’s around… a lot of times she’s the only girl.

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: Well, I have one more note that’s attached to this idea that it’s… we don’t have to go into it, but my Freudian theories a little bit. If Ginny is like Fred and George and Fred and George are like James Potter and Ginny looks like Lily, does Harry effectively marry his parents in some way by going to Ginny? Is Ginny some sort of manifestation of his parents, and not in a creepy way but in a, “Oh, I resonate with you, Ginny, because you reflect what was my past or where I came from.”

Kat: Yes, we all do that. It’s proven. Women – if you’re straight, I suppose – tend to look for men that emulate things that their father either had or things that their father didn’t have and the same for guys with their mothers.

Sue: Mhm. Because it really is your first… for a girl, it’s your first relationship with a man is your dad.

Kat: Mhm.

Caleb: And that’s the thing, though, that Harry doesn’t have. That relationship with his mother.

Noah and Sue: Right.

Caleb: He has nothing to go on. So to bring it back to Noah’s original question…

Sue: Right.

Caleb: … it would only be physical.

Noah: That’s a good point.

Caleb: That’s where I’m a little perplexed about…

Noah: Okay. I was just thinking about Ginny as potentially more related personality-wise to James as opposed to Lily because… as this potential jokester, I guess.

Caleb: Right, because Lily was really not that… she didn’t like James…

Sue: Mmm.

Caleb: … because he was too much of that, at first.

Noah: All right, so interesting stuff there and we’ve got a little bit more about Fred and George coming up. Back to – here’s another point – Harry’s emotions in this chapter. I’m going to talk about it because we have another couple of scenes and sequences where Harry is talking to himself and even at the end of the chapter, I don’t know if everyone picked up on it, but there’s portrait talks to Harry like, “The first sign of insanity or madness is talking to yourself.”

Sue: Yeah, yeah, good line.

Noah: And it’s pretty freaky because he’s sort of taking the portrait seriously and as we know, obviously, Harry has a piece of somebody else’s soul in his head, so I wonder again how much does Harry talk to this piece of soul? How much is it influencing his own inner voice? So I’ve picked out a couple quotes that I just want to put out there and then let’s have a discussion of do we think that this is the soul talking to him again or if it’s just Harry himself? Here’s the first one on page 157, Harry is remembering what Dumbledore had been like to him in the courtroom and how he wished that he looked at him. “‘I wish he’d talked to me. Or even looked at me.'” And then his scar burns and everyone is like, “Oh! Harry what’s wrong?” and he’s says “Oh, no, my scar’s throbbing.” But he immediately feels guilty about that thought or that it would be childish so he doesn’t voice it, but as we remember in Order of the Phoenix – sorry, the movie – there’s this whole scene of, “Look at me! Look at me!” And Harry’s face is changing to Voldemort so… That’s of course movie canon but I’m wondering how much of that is Voldemort’s soul influencing and how much is that Harry’s need? And then there’s – let me do a couple more – when Hermione asks Harry if she can borrow Hedwig to send a letter to her parents Harry says, “‘Yeah no problem,’ said Harry in that horrible, hearty voice that did not belong to him. ‘Take her.'” So again, just looking at that line, it’s about how literal you take it. Does that voice not belong to him because it’s the Horcrux or is it because that’s not his normal way of being? Again, it’s mystical how she writes because there are two distinct ways you can really take it.

Sue: Yeah.

Noah: And the third one that I want to talk about is when Harry’s thinking about Ron’s prefect badge and how he basically has a conversation in his head on page 166 – go ahead and look at it – and there’s a truthful voice inside his head saying that he would not normally expect this happening. So this isn’t so far, and we’ve sort of seen stuff like before in the books, but let’s all weigh in here. How much of it is Voldemort’s Horcrux and how much of it is Harry’s own mental state and he’s own angsty suffering, bipolar teenager?

Kat: I’m going to go out on a limb and say a lot of it is Voldemort because I think this is the point where he’s starting to realize that he can use Harry – just starting to realize – because Harry has been having dreams about the door.

Noah: So he’s activating it? Voldemort is activating his Harry connection?

Kat: I think he’s testing it and seeing exactly what he can and can’t do.

Noah: Yeah.

Sue: Huh.

Kat: How much he can influence Harry. Yeah, that’s exactly what I think. I think that Harry, if he wasn’t influenced by Voldemort, would probably care less if Ron got the prefect badge, quite honestly.

Noah: Mhm.

Sue: And it specifically mentioned twice in this chapter that his scar burned. I didn’t realize that it happened right after… was that actually in the courtroom? When he says…

Noah: The “look at me?”

Sue: … “I wished he talked to me or even looked at me”? Is that when the scar burned?

Kat: He’s talking about… that’s when he wishes Dumbledore would look at him, but no, he says that afterwards when he was talking about how Dumbledore was there and how Dumbledore had gone…

Noah: Yeah. This is right around when Fred, and George, and Ginny are singing, “He got off, He got off,” so…

Sue: Yeah.

Kat: Right.

Noah: He should be happy in this moment.

Sue: Right, because the scar… again, it’s quoted twice that his scar burned. And I was wondering if… this is a question I had. Do we know what Voldemort… what is he doing right now?

Kat: Hmm.

Noah: I mean, he’s…

Sue: Do we even know?

Noah: He’s building up his…

Kat: He’s in hiding.

Sue: He’s just…

Kat: Trying to figure out how to get the prophecy.

Noah: Yeah. Maybe he’s surrounded by some Death Eaters. He’s saying, “Look, look! Look what I can make Harry do now! I’m going to just think…” and he’s closing his eyes. “Yes, yes, yes.” [laughs] “You can’t see this guys. Guys, you can’t see this, but Harry is totally, really upset right now. I can see it.”

[Sue laughs]

Caleb: So I’m not totally convinced that this is really all Voldemort. I think that… well, obviously, the scar hurting is him, and maybe the first point you brought up, Noah, I would be willing to say that that is at least somewhat attributed to Voldemort…

Noah: Because of the scar burning?

Caleb: Yeah. And I think that that sets his mood and mindset and emotions for the next couple of days and that enhances the likelihood that he acts out in this way when Ron gets the prefect badge and he doesn’t. Because I’m not… I would not put it past Harry to be upset about it, even under normal circumstances.

Noah: I do agree with that.

Sue: Yeah, I agree.

Caleb: Because he… otherwise, he wouldn’t be having the internal struggle immediately like he does. So I think a lot of that is just regular Harry, but he’s in a bad mood already because brother’s been through some stuff. So yeah, I’m not totally convinced it’s all Voldemort, but I think it’s definitely a contributing factor and I think what’s important is it’s the two… we’re starting to see the blurring of it.

Noah and Sue: Right.

Caleb: You can’t really tell when it’s happening, and I think that’s what Jo does a really good job of writing.

Noah: Well, I think you had a good point, though, with the fact that the Horcrux burn could be an indication of when something’s actually going on, and then maybe the time surrounding that burn – that scar burning – they’re like waves of issues and maybe Voldemort has to push that button every so often to make sure that Harry’s at a sensitive state, and if he didn’t, Harry would have more control over his own emotions.

Kat: Mhm.

Noah: But all hypothetical stuff anyway. And I do think back to Book 7, where Ron has the locket around his neck and…

Sue: Mmm.

Noah: … that works with his emotions, so this is sort of like the same thing with Harry, except there’s not a locket on his chest. There’s a Horcrux in his mind, in his own body, that he always has to struggle with.

Sue: Right. And that Voldemort can control.

Noah: Right.

Sue: The locket was just… or any of the other… that really affected them, but this is a direct…

Noah: Connection.

Sue: Voldemort is… yeah.

Noah: Until – arguably – until at the end of this book, where he throws them off…

Sue: Right.

Noah: … with the love.

Sue: [unintelligible]

Noah: Yup. Moving on. We have Ron the prefect, which is a big deal. Of course Hermione’s a prefect too, but no one’s really surprised at that at all, which is funny. But it’s the fact that it’s Ron, and there are many different reactions from everyone that I want to break down, and we can analyze them, because that’s always fun. So Molly’s initial response is, “Let’s buy you something. Let’s buy you stuff.” And I feel like she does this often.

Kat: Okay, that’s…

Noah: She’s so mothering, “You’ve done well, son. I’m going to reward you with a monetary thing.” And it’s interesting that they’re poor, too, that she often goes to money… that, in her mind, the only way that you can validate buying stuff or things is when you’ve done well or you’ve really earned it. And that’s probably a very healthy approach…

Sue: Mmm.

Noah: … but it’s probably something that had to be developed, too, just because money is tight and their family is huge.

Sue: It’s a bigger deal for them, you know?

Noah: Yeah.

Sue: I think of… the Malfoys can just go out and buy a broom. This is a big deal.

Noah: And Ron’s excited. He’s over the hill.

Sue: Yeah. I was actually surprised how quickly Ron… he was excited about, obviously, being a prefect, but he seemed to really change fairly quickly over to being more excited about getting a new broom.

[Noah laughs]

Sue: That was what he talked about at the dinner table more than…

Noah: That’s what he cares more about.

Sue: Yeah, than him being a prefect, so I thought that was interesting that he was talking to Tonks about it. I think about his new broom and how excited that she actually got him one and couldn’t wait to open it up and…

Noah: Well, Tonks, too – I was going to bring this up later – but there’s a distinct moment where Ginny is looking up to Tonks or playing off of her, and Tonks, in a way, is sort of like a grown-up Ginny in that she is also one of the boys too.

Sue: Mhm.

Noah: She’s fighting, she’s feisty, and yeah…

Caleb: Yeah, I think they’re pretty similar.

Kat: Right. But I’m going to have to disagree with you, because I don’t think Molly’s first instinct is for her to buy Ron something. I think that she’s overjoyed and overwhelmed and in shock. That’s her first instinct.

Noah: All right. Sorry. First instinct… wrong, poor wording choice.

Kat: Yes.

Noah: But it’s her direct…

Kat: But that’s a tradition.

Noah: … action, I guess.

Kat: It’s not like she’s doing it just for Ron.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: And also, the reason Ron is so over excited about the broom, far more than he is about being a prefect, is because Ron wants status. He wants people to know that he has nice things when he has nice things. And that’s a huge part of…

Noah: He does.

Kat: … Ron’s character, and that’s why, basically… I could go into this forever, but…

[Noah laughs]

Kat: … that’s why he focuses on the broomstick, is because he has something nice and he wants the entire world to know that he has something nice. And that makes him cooler and more desirable.

Caleb: I don’t know if he wants the broom for people to think that he has a nice thing. I think he’s genuinely excited to have…

Kat: Oh.

Caleb: … an awesome broom so that he can play Quidditch and stuff.

Sue: Yeah, I was thinking of the Quidditch. Yeah.

Kat: That’s definitely true, but that’s why he’s more excited about the broomstick than being a prefect. Because people think prefects are daft and stupid and whatever. At least Fred and George do. But people think a broomstick – a new broomstick – is really cool. So I think that’s why…

Sue: Because it is.

Kat: Well, that’s why he’s talking about a broomstick more than he is about being a prefect.

Caleb and Sue: Hmm.

Noah: I think you’re right, Kat. I think Ron definitely resents being the one to get all the hand-me-downs.

Kat: Right.

Noah: He wants his own thing.

Kat: Absolutely.

Noah: And then there’s Hermione, who has a very distinct expression. She blushes when she hears that Ron has been made a prefect, and this should…

Kat: Well, that’s after she comes in assuming… because she catches Harry holding the badge and assumes that he was going to get it.

Noah: Which totally makes sense, but she is totally thrown off guard, and I feel like Ron earns so many points that day.

Caleb: I would have flipped out on Hermione had I been Ron.

Noah: Oh because, “You didn’t think of me before? That I could possibly do this?”

Caleb: Yeah. It made me think of those moments they have later in the series. Like, “Always the tone of surprise.”

Kat and Noah: Yeah.

Caleb: But it would be much more angry. Not as much joking.

Kat: Yeah, because they’re on this weird precipice of their relationship, right?

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: They’re slowly maybe thinking that maybe they kind of like each other, even though I know it comes to a head in the next book.

Noah: And it’s way more overt in the movies.

Kat: It’s movies. Whatever.

Caleb: Right.

Noah: They clear that up.

Kat: Movies are whatever they are.

Noah: But I just thought it was a very sweet moment.

Kat: It’s one of the few moments that Hermione has her foot in her mouth.

Noah: Right. Exactly.

Caleb: Yup. It’s true.

Noah: Fred and George’s response is sort of surprised. They did not expect it to be Ron, and another group that expected it to be Harry, but I thought they seemed a little bitter about it actually. I don’t have the exact line, but they start looking at Molly. “Why don’t you treat us as nicely as you do Ron or Percy? Look at Percy and what they’ve done.” Of course, they don’t actually say any of this, but this is what I felt underneath. How do Fred and George see themselves in the family? Because Molly is very tough with them. Not without good reason, they do blow up a lot of stuff, but is it possible that even though they think you’re a prat. You have to be daft to be a prefect. This, this, and that. Are they a little jealous maybe of him?

Caleb: I could maybe see it a little bit, but I think to your question to where they see themselves in the family, I think they’re very independent, they know that they are really capable, and they already have their minds set beyond school, so they’ve already gotten their heads really locked in. But I mean, yeah, I think anyone in that moment where you have been either in that moment or in the past as is the case for the twins, have not been recognized in a specific way and someone close to you is, it’s a hard pill to swallow. And then you have to chose how are you going to react to it.

Kat: I don’t know if they’re jealous of Ron. I think they’re probably a little put aside, because I think they probably see themselves as better than Ron, and I think that…

Noah: More clever.

Kat: Yeah, yeah. More clever, more… I’m not sure exactly what the word is. I think they just kind of see themselves as more evolved. Just higher than Ron, and I think this hurts a little bit because Molly literally pushes – I think – Fred out of the way…

Caleb: Yeah.

Sue: [laughs] She does.

Kat: To hug Ron, and is literally like, “boom.”

Caleb: That’s everyone in the family.

Kat: Right. Yeah, right. And they’re like…

Caleb: “Who are we, the next door neighbors?”

Kat: Yeah, exactly.

Sue: [laughs] [unintelligible]

Kat: I don’t think that they’re jealous, I think that they’re just a little put out. I’m not sure exactly what the word is.

Noah: Well, I have…

Caleb: That’s a pretty good way to put it.

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: I have some specific thoughts just about Fred and George and their relationship with Molly. I was reading the wiki and someone suggested online that they were named after Gideon and Fabian, who were Molly Weasley’s brothers who we actually saw in the photograph that Moody shows Harry a little later on in this chapter. And that suggests, for one thing, they’re her… maybe she sees them as brothers and not so much children for some reason. I mean, of course, she’s Molly, so I don’t think she could totally do that, but that puts those two characters in a different space than her other children.

Caleb: I think she just named them because they were twins and her brothers… were her brothers twins? No they weren’t, were they?

Kat: No, they are.

Caleb: Oh, they are, okay. Couldn’t remember if I was making that up or not.

Kat: No, I think that the “G” and “F” thing has been in the family for many generations.

Noah: Oh, okay.

Kat: I don’t think Gideon and Fabian were the first ones. But no, I would say I don’t think she sees them as her brothers more than her children.

Caleb: No.

Kat: She treats them like a mother does, not like a sister.

Caleb: Yeah.

Noah: Well I think it’s… I just think it’s interesting. I don’t know quite what to make of it, and adding on top of that, when we get into the Boggart sequence and we see the family, she sees Fred and George together as twins as opposed to one after the other, so she can’t separate the two from her mind, and maybe… I don’t know… Sue, you don’t have twins.

Sue: No.

Noah: But maybe does anyone know any mothers with twins? Do they also see their twin children as this single entity that Molly seems to?

Kat: No. Not any twins that I know.

Caleb: Yeah, same.

Noah: So arguably, Molly does that here, and in light of that, she seems to put them in a separate space than the other kids.

Caleb: Yeah, I mean, we definitely don’t ever see a time where Molly individualizes them other than the two really horrible scenes where George gets really injured, and I’m not going to talk about the other, and that’s, obviously, a really specific event. I think it would happen off scene. I think it’s just we don’t get to see it as we read because it’s not part of the scene we see.

Kat: And I know we’ve discussed this before, but Molly doesn’t have a lot of mama-time with Fred and George.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: Because they have each other, and they’ve always had each other, and they have different interests, and, like Caleb said, they are very ambitious, they have their minds set, they know where they’re going, so they do their own thing.

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: So I think Molly just doesn’t know Fred and George as well as she knows her other children. That’s all.

Noah: Yeah, they don’t want to be babied.

Kat: Yeah, I mean…

Sue: Yeah, a lot of it is age.

Kat: I mean, maybe they do a little bit, but in a different way than Molly can provide.

Noah: I think they do and it’s sad. It’s just so, so sad.

Kat: Yeah. [laughs]

Caleb: One thing else though about Harry being gypped out of the prefect, I think it’s really interesting that Jo chooses to have a really firm character in Kingsley, say that he would have made Harry a prefect because…

Kat: Hmm.

Caleb: … otherwise it’s just like, “Oh well Harry, you need to get over it.” But she leaves that last little nugget that makes us think well you know, there are people who think that Harry should have been made a prefect. It’s not just his own belief in thinking that he’s better than Ron. I think that was a really interesting choice.

Kat: Yeah, no, I actually agree. I really love Kingsley, he’s probably one of my favorite…

Caleb: Same.

Kat: … ancillary characters… and I’m dying to know more about this guy. I love him and I just think Jo chooses to give him lines that kind of challenge the authority in this scene of that particular chapter, or moment, or whatever. In this case, being Dumbledore… and I like that.

Noah: Well, I think Kingsley and Dumbledore… they both reflect different kinds of authority.

Kat: Right, and that’s my point is that… Jo throws him in there and is like, “Oh but wait… you can think about it this way too. Don’t just listen to Dumbledore, form your own opinion.”

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: ìTake this word from Kingsley, who we know… who we respect and look at it in a different way.î

Caleb: So maybe she always had it in the back of her mind that this other authority figure, like you guys are mentioning, and he ends up becoming the minister we know at the end of the series, so…

Kat: Right, which is so freaking awesome.

[Caleb laughs]

Noah: But by the same token, let’s say Dumbledore had made Harry a prefect and then sort of bolstered Harry up as this figure against the Ministry, maybe Harry would have been open to some attack from the Ministry and The Daily Prophet, even more so than he already is.

Caleb: Probably so.

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: So maybe he was planning that all along. That’s potential argument, I guess.

Sue: I’m feeling… Dumbledore knew Harry’s going to have a really tough year and he had a lot on his plate just from, again, what he went through last book. I mean…

Noah: And he regrets it at the end, I believe you said.

Kat: He does. Again, in my favorite chapter of the entire series.

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: Anyway.

Noah: And then we get into the Boggart sequence. First, there’s a party. There’s a cool party in which Harry sees a photograph and it’s the old Order, which should be a kind of hopeful moment but of course, Harry is not having it. He’s in a really bizarre mental state in this chapter. Then he goes upstairs and he hears wailing and he realizes that Molly Weasley is fighting a Boggart and losing that fight and just a first note about the Boggart, it’s in a writing desk. What if the Boggart in this chapter, being in a writing desk, is sort of Jo’s greatest fear, which is writer’s block itself, not knowing what to say…

Kat: Hmm.

Noah: … and being misunderstood.

Caleb: I actually really like that, that’s really interesting.

Sue: Yeah, I do too. I mean, of all the things where a Boggart could hide, that she chose to have it in a writing desk, I think is really cool.

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: Isn’t this the break between Goblet and Order? Isn’t this the time where it was two years or something like that? Like, crazy long break?

Caleb: Yeah it was the first long break.

Kat: And she felt really exhausted about it and was overwhelmed so I feel like that’s actually probably pretty legitimate.

Sue: Hmm.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: It’s her cheeky way of being like, “Ah ha.” You know… as Jo can only do.

Noah: Is it an Obligatory Genius Moment?

[Sue laughs]

Kat: It could be an OGM, it could be.

[Everyone laughs]

Noah: So Harry is watching Molly fight the Boggart and it keeps changing from one Weasley child to the next. Interestingly, not Ginny. We don’t see a Ginny, we don’t see a Charlie. And maybe because she doesn’t, I guess, expect them to fight in the war as much? Certainly not…

Sue: Maybe because she was interrupted.

Noah: Oh, it would have continued.

Sue: I think so.

Kat: Or they were first.

Sue: Yeah, true.

Noah: Or she doesn’t love them as much.

Kat: No.

[Noah laughs]

Kat: Or she just thinks that they’re both so kickass that nothing would ever happen to them.

[Sue laughs]

Noah: Or she sees Ginny as like a continuation of herself and she’s not scared about herself.

Kat: No, I don’t see that.

Noah: Okay, I can only spin a web of random possibilities.

Kat: I know, I know.

Noah: Interesting that Harry sees his own dead body on the floor and that’s the moment where he says, “Please, please stop!” [laughs] “Mrs. Weasley, let me do it. Let me take over.”

Kat: Yeah, that’s so creepy. I don’t know, I just… I always think about this if I were Harry standing there, watching this moment.

Noah: Yeah.

Kat: To see myself dead on the floor…

Sue: Right?

Kat: I don’t know, it’s just…

Caleb: I couldn’t handle it.

Kat: Yeah, it’s just so bizarre.

Sue: Well, there’s that first second where he walked in, it was Ron that was laying there.

Kat: And he was like, “What?!”

Sue: And then, pretty quickly though – I thought pretty quickly – he went, “Wait a minute. Okay, this isn’t right. I just was with Ron. This couldn’t be real.”

Noah: Oh, it’s very quick.

Noah and Sue: Yeah.

Sue: Yeah, then he realized the situation and… yeah, that’s…

Noah: But this is Jo sort of playing with death, in a way. There’s an element of humor here – ironic humor – which is…

Kat: And a ginormous foreshadowing. She says the entire family is in the Order, it’d be a miracle if we all make it through. Which, dun, dun, dun…

Noah: Is that foreshadowing, though?

Caleb: Whoops.

Kat: Yeah, I mean…

Caleb: Yeah, it absolutely is.

Kat: … why wouldn’t it be?

Noah: I mean, there’s going to be the war but if one – I’m thinking – you’re sort of talking about foreshadowing that there’s going to be a general war, but maybe if there was just one person left out or something, then I would be more…

Sue: Well, we just had the scene with Moody showing the picture of the initial, original…

Noah: Order.

Sue: … Order of the Phoenix. And how many of those people… and Moody… I think Moody’s intention… he didn’t… Harry took it… I can see how Harry would take it how he did. I don’t think… I think Moody meant it in a nice way, in his own way.

Kat: Yeah, absolutely.

Sue: But how many people out of the picture were dead? In pretty explicit ways. I mean, one guy they found just…

Kat: Bits.

Sue: … pieces of him, some people they didn’t find. So you went from that scene… this is war now. I mean, this is getting to be…

Noah: Well, she’s rightfully scared. I’m not saying she shouldn’t be. I’m just very sensitive about literary terms.

Sue: Her brothers were both killed in that.

Noah: Yeah, but they fought five Death Eaters. It was a valiant death.

Sue: Oh, they did, but they’re still dead.

Noah: Everybody’s got to die, Sue.

Sue: I know, but it’s really sad. This part is really sad, Noah.

Kat: Wow, I think you successfully shut him up. That doesn’t happen often.

Noah: Kat, I don’t think it’s foreshadowing. And I can talk to you about it later if you want.

Kat: No, I don’t want to talk about it later. We’ll talk about it…

Noah: I know you don’t.

[Noah and Sue laugh]

Caleb: We can let the listeners talk about it.

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: Okay.

Kat: There you go. Listeners, talk about it. Who’s right? Vote Team Kat.

[Sue laughs]

Noah: One last point about the Boggart. This Boggart is really messing with Molly Weasley. How smart is this Boggart? Is it possible that the Dark forces around Grimmauld Place have made it really more evil than it normally would be and is making it do this to Molly with some really weird intelligence?

Caleb: I don’t think so.

Kat: No.

Sue: Well, it was brought up, I think, a couple of chapters ago that this house has a lot of Dark magic in it, and this room in particular. Is this the room where they found…

Kat: Yeah.

Sue: … the locket initially? It had the cabinet…

Noah: Oh, wait, I’m not sure.

Kat: Yes.

Sue: They went on a whole list of things when they were trying to clean it out.

Noah: Does anyone know?

Sue: The doxies and everything, and the locket was just on a list of things that they found with the music box that made everybody fall asleep until Ginny closed it. There was a whole bunch of items, and the locket was just thrown in there as one of the things that they tried to…

Kat: An OGM.

Noah: So you’re saying it could be that room. Do you guys know what room it is?

Kat: It’s the draw… yes, it’s this room. It’s the drawing room.

Sue: Yeah.

Noah: It is that room. So yeah, this is the whole room…

Sue: Yeah, the energy is like a vortex of…

Noah: Yeah, so I think…

Sue: … Dark magic.

Noah: … it totally manipulated the Boggart, making it act really mean to Molly.

Kat: But we don’t know how long the Boggart’s been there. I’m pretty sure Molly says at one point that she thinks it moved in overnight. So…

Noah: That doesn’t mean that the forces in the room didn’t impact it. I don’t think we can answer this.

Sue: Well, I think Molly’s emotions… she just feels so helpless.

Noah: And it’s picking up on that?

Sue: Yeah. I think it feeds…

Caleb: Yeah, I think so.

Sue: … almost like a Dementor can feed off of…

Caleb: Right.

Sue: … some of these negative emotions that… the Boggart feeds off of fear, and if someone’s… and she’s been obviously holding this in. I think she tries to keep a brave face and tries to keep everybody fed and happy and…

Noah: Well, one… I thought… my question was “How does the Boggart choose which body to turn into?” Is it based off of maybe Molly gets a vision of the child in question in her mind, or does the Boggart anticipate what she’s going to think?

Sue: I think it’s her thought. Who[m] she’s thinking of.

Kat: Yeah, I think so, too.

Caleb: I don’t know. I think it’s probably digging into her subconscious somehow because…

Sue: Yeah.

Caleb: … she’s not purposefully thinking about the next person, I don’t think, as it keeps changing.

Sue: But yeah, I don’t think she has control…

Caleb: Yeah.

Sue: … that she’s just so upset.

Noah: So it seems to be able to anticipate.

Kat: I don’t think so because I mean, when Harry talks about fighting the Boggart in Prisoner, he says that he first thought of Voldemort, but then the Dementor popped into his head, and that’s when the Boggart changed.

Sue: Yeah.

Kat: So I’m going…

Noah: That would suggest there’s some sort of mental change when she’s seeing one of her dead children that she’s thinking about another one.

Kat: Yeah, exactly. I think she’s like, “Oh my God, look, it’s Ron,” and then “Oh, but what about Ginny?” or…

Noah: Right, okay.

Kat: … “Oh my God, what about Fred and George?” I think she’s just reeling and over and over and over and over and over thinking about it. Yeah, that’s what I think.

Sue: And her emotions. She just can’t focus, which is, again…

Kat: Rollercoaster.

Sue: … what we talked about earlier. So important to be able to do the…

Kat: Right.

Sue: … appropriate spell. You have to be able to focus, and she was just so upset.

Kat: Right.

Noah: I still think there’s something about that room, but all right.

Sue: Well, I think the room is part of it.

Kat: Yeah, it’s entirely possible.

Noah: Cool. All right, that’s all I have for the chapter, but definitely one of my fav chapters of my fav book that Kat and I agree with…

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: … on that is that this book is…

Caleb: I also agree with that. I am not the nextdoor neighbor.

Noah: Sorry. Yeah.

[Kat, Noah, and Sue laugh]

Kat: So…

Noah and Sue: That’s a great line.

Kat: Yeah, it is. So we’re going to actually stay on Boggarts for the Podcast Question of the Week this week. And I think probably everybody might possibly know what it is because I think we’ve touched on it a few times before, but I have a little bit of a twist for it. So this is it, obviously. This is the chapter where Moody sees the Boggart. He looks, and he says, “Yup, that’s definitely a Boggart.” What exactly does he see? But okay, there’s a secondary question here. Also, Molly goes in there to try [to] get rid of the Boggart, and as we just discussed, she sees all of her dead children and her dead husband and is fretting over this war. What would Molly’s Boggart be if the wizarding world [weren’t] on the doorstep of a war? I’m really curious about this. Really excited to see what you guys think.

Caleb: And to clarify, you mean what Moody saw not because it’s his fear but what is… or are you asking that possibly or what the Boggart looks like…?

Kat: No, legit what it looks like. What is it?

Caleb: Before it transforms.

Kat: Before it transforms, yup. Yup. So it should be a good one. Hey, if you want to throw in there what you think Moody’s Boggart is, too, let’s do it. Let’s… what is that? We’ll just do three little questions.

Caleb: Little Crouch now.

Kat: That’s right, Little Crouch now. [laughs]

[Sue laughs]

Kat: That’s a good answer.

Sue: That’s a good one. [laughs]

Kat: I mean, it very well might be. right?

[Caleb laughs]

Kat: But yeah, so you guys know where to answer that. It’s at under the Podcast Question of the Week thread. So do it. Thanks.

Noah: Do it.

Sue: Thanks.

Noah: Do it. I’m getting a lot of comments on that main site. People seem to have… we still have comments in the forums but tons and tons on that main site, just underneath posts. Like, hundreds. So we love reading all of them. Please continue to just debate, go back and forth, and we’ll get as many of them on the show as we can.

Kat: We love it. Yeah, we do. And we hope that you guys are enjoying the format more of the show. We’ve been working on it a lot. So give us feedback on that, too. Let us know if you think it’s working, not working, all of that. We love to hear that. It only helps make the show better for us and for you, so let us know.

Noah: And I’d like to thank Sue for coming on the show.

Sue: Well, it has been my pleasure. I don’t get that much of a chance to converse about Harry Potter, so this is real treat. And I hope I did okay.

Noah: Yeah, I mean, I met Sue at MISTI-Con. We connected over butterbeer. We’re friends, and I actually drove to Massachussetts to…

Sue: He did.

Noah: Well, I’m meeting my friend too, but we’re sitting next to each other doing this recording. So…

Sue: Thank you very much. But if I can just say, I have been a fan since Day 1. I’ve never missed an episode, so… but I never in my wildest dreams thought I would ever be a guest. And again, I hope I was able to hold up. And it’s not something… I don’t have a lot of people in my life [whom] I can converse about Harry Potter with, so this is… I hope I was able to be okay, and it’s quite a treat to be on the show.

Noah: You’re great, you’re great.

Kat: I think everybody listening will agree that you did an excellent job, so…

Caleb: No doubt.

Kat: Well, yeah.

Sue: Harry Potter is really, really special to me. And again, I never miss a podcast. And I like how it’s out earlier on Saturdays now.

[Kat laughs]

Sue: And so it’s great. You guys do a great job, and it’s so, so vital because as you talked about earlier, there’s a new person everyday [who] picks up a Harry Potter book. And it’s you guys. It’s MuggleNet. But you guys [who] come up with… the only ones [who] are putting out new shows now. And there’s always people [who] are going to be starting Harry Potter at the beginning. And it’s important that this… it’s ongoing…

Noah: It’s ongoing, and the show is online, so it’s there.

Sue: Yeah, for everybody.

Kat: You’re pulling out my Slytherin slide. So stop.

[Noah laughs]

Kat: Stop flattering me. You’re going to give me a big head.

[Caleb laughs]

Noah: I knew it.

Caleb: Well, that is very kind to say, so thank you very much. And if you would like to be on the show, like Sue, you can head over to our website and check out the “Be on the Show” page, which is on And the only thing you need is a set of Apple headphones or something comparable, and you’re all set. No fancy equipment needed.

Kat: And in the meantime, if you just want to stay in touch with us, send us a message, or if you make a website for us, something super cool like that, you can find us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN,, [and] on Tumblr at mnalohomorapodcast. Of course, our phone number is 206-GO-ALBUS. That’s 206-462-5287. Subscribe, and leave us a review on iTunes. We really do love reading those. They’re really hilarious, especially when you pick on Micah. So those are really funny.

Noah: Yeah, yeah. Sue was saying that somebody picked on Micah again…

Kat: Yeah.

Noah: … continuously. [laughs]

Kat: Yeah, it’s okay. It’s funny. We like it. Micah likes it, too. It’s fine.

Noah: I know he does. [laughs]

[Kat and Sue laugh]

Kat: And you can follow us on Snapchat – MN_Alohomora. And of course, our Audioboo, which is free no matter where you live anywhere in the world: an island, you could live in Alaska, in a boat in the middle of the ocean. As long as you have Internet and a microphone, you can leave us a voicemail. And that’s right on

Noah: And of course, we have the Alohomora! store. There are tons of shirts and coffee mugs and lots of other stuff. But today we really want to ask you, “What do you want in the store? What are some ideas for things that you would like us to make or produce because we could get them to you through some sort of monetary means?” So please just give us some feedback. Give us some comments. And if you like creating websites, like Lauren did, just really go to that Squib site. We’re going to make a note about it on the show notes for this episode. I think it’s just hilariously awesome, and just the more collaborative projects that the Alohomora! fans can produce – we’ll help you – that’s really special. Oh, by the way, there’s a sale. 15% off from June 3 to June 10. Make sure to use the code “MyShirt2014.” That’s in the Alohomora! store. Kat, is that on every shirt or everything in the store?

Kat: That is on… it’s off T-shirts. 15% off T-shirts.

Noah: All right, so that’s a cool deal. So make sure to head over to our store and do that. We also have the ringtones that are free and available on the website.

Caleb: And don’t forget our smartphone app, which is available seemingly worldwide. Prices vary. It has things like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much more. And that’s going to do it for this week’s episode.

[Show music begins]

Caleb: Thanks for joining us on Alohomora!. I’m Caleb Graves.

Noah: I’m Noah Fried.

Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 86 of Alohomora!

Noah: Open the Dumbledore.

Kat: That was the most normal “Open the Dumbledore” you’ve ever done.

[Show music continues]

Noah: Sue, could you move doggie upstairs?

[Sounds of ruffling and growling]

Noah: Oh my God. Sue was eaten by a Blast-Ended Skrewt.