Transcript – Episode 83

[Show music begins]

Caleb Graves: This is Episode 83 of Alohomora! for May 10, 2014.

[Show music continues]

Caleb: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.

Rosie Morris: I’m Rosie Morris.

Noah Fried: And I’m Noah Fried. And I’d like to introduce our special guest, Nate Coley. Am I pronouncing that right?

Nate Coley: Yes.

Noah: What house are you, Nate?

Nate: I’m proud to be a Slytherin.

Caleb, Noah, and Rosie: Ooh.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: We don’t get any Slytherins, so this is good.

Nate: Yeah.

Rosie: Especially in this chapter, it’s good to have a Slytherin on board.

Caleb: Very good.

Noah: How long have you been listening to the show, Nate?

Nate: I’ve been listening for a couple of months. I used to be a big MuggleCast fan.

Noah: Uh-huh.

Nate: But once that ended I started looking for other podcasts, so I’ve been listening to Alohomora! for, say, five months.

Rosie: Great. Good to have you on board. [laughs]

Caleb: Yeah.

Nate: Thank you.

Noah: Have you caught up or are you just kind of listening around?

Nate: I pretty much listen to every episode.

Rosie: Awesome.

Caleb: Great.

Rosie: So as usual, before we start today’s episode, we need to remind you all to read Chapter 6 of Order of the Phoenix, which is “The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black.”

Caleb: So excited.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: And before we get into our recap, we want to first thank everyone for giving us feedback on our slight shift in the show format as far as chapter discussion that we took on last week with Chapter 5. So the feedback was really helpful. Know that what we did last week is not necessarily a firm set of what we will do. We just want to let the show grow in the best way possible because the last three books in the series are very different from the first four books, so we want to make sure we’re doing the discussion in the best way possible. But a lot of what you guys were saying is, you don’t want us to lose the smaller details and the nuanced items that Jo gets in the series and we definitely want to keep that going. So no worries, we will definitely keep that in our discussion. But we do want to create this space to discuss some of these bigger ideas as we get into some really deep issues in these last three books. A lot of you were unsure about the format because last week’s episode was so short, but I will allay your fears that the format was not the reason last week’s episode was slightly shorter. It was more because we were on a slight time crunch on recording. So that was not indicative of the format, but we are always looking for your feedback, so thank you for that. All right, enough of that. We’re going to jump into some comments on our discussion from last week, which again was Chapter 5. And one of the big things we talked about was whether or not Sirius or Harry had it worse, meaning Sirius being stuck in Grimmauld Place not being able to get out, or Harry when he’s at Privet Drive having no forms of communication and kind of being stuck there. So Claire Marie on the main site said,

“Caleb mentioned on the show that the timeline for Sirius being able to leave Grimmauld Place was indefinite. Even if Harry was stuck at the Dursleys’ for the moment, he knew that he was eventually going to get to see his friends and get information. September 1st would have been the absolute latest that could happen, and while Harry would not have been happy with the prospect of another month with the Dursleys, he would have at least be assured of his eventual leaving. Sirius, however, has no clue about when he is going to be able to leave the house. I expect it [would] also be maddening to have all of the information and yet be able to do nothing.”

And then on the flip side, IGotTransfiguredIntoARhubarb, which is a wonderful username…

[Rosie laughs]

Noah: Great name.

Caleb: [continues]

“Sirius has it worse. He spent a good portion of his life behind bars in Azkaban. He then experienced a year of freedom. Now he’s imprisoned in his own home and what’s worse is that he’s a prisoner in a home he despises.”

Noah: Yeah, I sort of feel similarly. I think he feels he’s lost a lot of power with Dumbledore basically telling him what he has to do. We know he’s going to break rules eventually, but he’s lost his power and there is the fact that he was in Azkaban for years. I think that is much tougher to deal with. Who knows what kind of post-tramautic stuff he’s going through? Harry just had a bad summer. He experienced a death of a close person, but Sirius has experienced that, too, I’m sure.

Caleb: Yep.

Rosie: Yeah, we get into this a lot more in today’s chapter and the idea that Sirius is basically imprisoned in a home that he ran away from when he was sixteen. This is a house that he despises so much and a family and a history that he despises so much that he literally wrote himself out and blasted himself… well, not really, but he got blasted off of the tapestry. Harry, sure, would want to get out of Privet Drive. We’ve seen him almost run away on several occasions, but he’s never really gone through with it and he’s always begrungingly okay with going back at the end of the summer. He wouldn’t ever properly refuse to go. Sirius would refuse to go and now he’s being trapped there, probably almost as bad as Azkaban. You’re trapped with those horrible memories of your life. That’s what a Dementor does.

Noah: I don’t know if it’s as bad as Azkaban – that seems to me – but come on.

Caleb: I realized I said the flip side; those were actually both the same…

Rosie: The same thing. [laughs]

Caleb: I meant to find two comments, I think, then I came across the Rhubarb because one, it was a great username and two, we did not discuss the Azkaban element as much last week, so I thought it was a really good point. There are comments on the page taking the side that Harry has it worse, but I would say the majority of people did say Sirius had it worse. Nate, what do you think?

Nate: I think Sirius has it worse, but it’s also the same way with Harry. He went through a lot in the school year. He saw Voldemort again; he witnessed a death right in front of his eyes; like Sirius, he has this free period where he doesn’t know what to do; he’s stuck in a house that he hates and he doesn’t know when he’s going to get out of there; he doesn’t have any information. But at the same time, Sirius was probably in Azkaban for a longer time than Harry – the trauma he went through in that graveyard – but yeah.

Noah: So to put you on the spot, Nate, 60-40? What percent? Who has it… split who had it worse.

Nate: I would say Sirius.

Caleb: Agreed.

Rosie: They both have it bad, but at least they’re now together.

Caleb: There you go.

Rosie: Things are looking up.

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Noah: All they do is whine together pretty much, which is great. [laughs] Great to read.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: The other big debate we had last week was over the fight between Sirius and Molly at the table over how much information Harry deserved to know. But it took off much more than that, and this first comment is from Elvis Gaunt and it says,

“About the argument between Molly and Sirius, I definitely side with Sirius. Firstly, if Molly has a point to make, she has to make it calmly, not by losing control, having an open row and setting a bad example for her children. The very fact that she resorts to raising her voice and making personal attacks on Sirius (about him being locked up in Azkaban) instead of reasoning her point shows that all she has is blind concern without a lot of logic. Secondly and more importantly, Dumbledore himself admits, much later in the book, that keeping Harry in the dark for so long was a mistake (as was forcing Sirius to stay indoors). We clearly see that Sirius understands Harry and the situation much better than Molly. Lastly, Arthur is as much a parental figure to Harry as Molly is and he is certainly the least reckless of all the characters here (including Lupin) and he too supports Sirius. I don’t think we see him openly taking sides against Molly any other time in the series.”

Rosie: Very true.

Caleb: And then AccioPotassium! brings up a good point about Molly and says,

“I think we all should remember the purpose of Molly’s argument in the first place. She is generally terrified of the possibility of losing any one of her children from the Order of the Phoenix activity in the second wizarding war. I believe Molly knows she is wrong about not giving any information to Harry and her sons. The motivation behind Molly’s argument is because she doesn’t want anyone in her family to die like her brothers in the first wizarding war.”

Noah: Yeah, she’s going through immense psychological stress throughout this chapter and the past couple. So she is totally… we can’t say anything about her.

Caleb: Well, we can. It’s just we have to understand that there’s a lot going on. I think Elvis Gaunt still brings up a good point that she has… given the situation they’re in, as hard as it is to recount the loss of your brothers, if you’re going to put yourself in this organization, you have to be able to separate the two. There’s a line – because we’re talking about kids here with Harry and the other ones, but Molly does get overly emotional, I think. I understand why she does, but at the same time she has to try not to.

Noah: Right.

Caleb: It’s a war.

Rosie: The war has only just started. We haven’t really started the fighting yet. But yeah, it’s tough because they are still just fourteen, fifteen. They’re incredibly young, but they believe that they’re older than they are…

Noah: Is it possible that she’s having? Sorry…

Rosie: Anyone who works with kids in a school will know that kind of thing. Go ahead.

Noah: Is it possible she’s having difficulty sacrificing the mother role that comes so naturally to her when her kids, especially Fred and George, seem to be taken up adulthood in the form of their magic?

Rosie: Definitely. And it’s really nice to actually see Harry having a mothering figure properly.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: Someone who’s really looking out for him.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: So I don’t think we can really fault either her or Sirius in this argument. It’s just…

Noah: Even though Harry is annoyed by her…

Rosie: It was always going to happen.

Noah: Harry’s annoyed by her throughout this chapter for lingering around when he just wants to talk to Sirius.

Rosie: That’s interesting though, isn’t it? Because he’s never had the mother figure and then as soon as he does, he’s frustrated by it because it’s…

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: He’s actually getting past that age now. He wants to be his own person for the first time.

Noah: Yeah, but…

Rosie: Poor Harry. Poor Molly. Poor everyone.

Noah: Classy sassy Harry.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: The last comment from last week’s discussion comes from an email from Tania La Salle:

“I’ve read the series several times and watched the movies countless times, but it’s taken me listening to the audiobooks to realize that J.K. Rowling was once again engaging in clever word play when she named Grimmauld Place – pronounced, out loud – ‘grim old place’.”

Noah: Ooh.

Caleb: [continues]

“(I’m sure this is not news to lots of people, but it was a wonderful ‘ahhhhhhhh!’ moment for me!)”

[Rosie laughs]

Nate: Yeah, I was also…

Noah: Snaps for Tania. She actually sent me an email recently – I don’t know if it was at the same time we got this email – basically saying, “Thanks for saying all the crazy stuff on the show, Noah. Keep it up.” And I just want to say, “Thank you. I will.”

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Nate: Yeah, I was thinking about this, too, last night, when I read this also. You know how Sirius takes the form of the Grim? It’s also the Grim’s old place since he ran away.

Rosie: Wow. It works on so many levels!

Caleb: Well, that’s a good point.

Nate: Yeah.

Noah: Whoa. Nice. Interesting.

Rosie: See, that’s why we need guest hosts on this show. Some of them are more clever than we are.

[Nate and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: I think the storm outside my room just made… faintly picked up on the audio. I hope it did because talking about the grim, old place seemed really appropriate.

Noah: The winds are changing.

Rosie: Proper pathetic fallacy there. [laughs]

Caleb: But [those were] some of the comments we got. We got so many on the site again. Almost 200 again, I think.

Rosie: Wow.

Caleb: And other topics that were discussed included Dung and Dumbledore, Snape, Ginny, and lots more. So definitely check out those comments on the main site and the forums.

Noah: And now we’re going to do our responses from the Question of the Week last week. Here’s the question: Fred and George can now do magic since they are of age, but it can be argued [that] they do it a bit excessively. Moreover, students from Hogwarts ñ or any school ñ reach that age at different points. Should the Ministry adjust the rule to be when they complete all years of school? Or maybe after six years of school? So this was in response to our question of “Fred and George use their Apparition and other magic pretty much excessively in the past chapter. Is this right? What sort of… should the Ministry ammend its laws if this sort of thing can be abused?” So here is the first response to the question from SurprisinglySwishy:

“I think the variation is the same as it is in the Muggle world. People come of age at different times and get those coming-of-age rights at different times. All of the wizards come of age before starting their seventh year, though, so unless their birthday was September 1, they should at least have a few days of the summer to practice magic. It’s actually rather smart of the wizarding world to have the wizards come of age and be allowed to practice magic before their last year of school. During the summer between 6th and 7th year, a young wizard [or witch] might be of age, but they’re not yet out in the world. More likely than not, they’re still living in their parents’ homes and therefore under their parents’ supervision. Would you like wizards like Fred and George out on their own and newly able to do magic? Or would you like Molly Weasley to be there scolding them when they do anything stupid? The summer between 6th and 7th year gives kids the ability to make some mistakes when their parents can still fix them.”

Rosie: Definitely. I agree with all of that.

Noah: Yeah, I think that’s a solid answer. I wonder if the Ministry lets parents know that that sort of business is going to happen. Maybe Hogwarts sends some sort of letter to parents of Muggle-borns that this is about to happen: “They can experiment with magic. Don’t be confused.”

Rosie: Well, I guess they would know anyway if it’s a wizarding convention. They would have learned by the time they got to being of age through Hogwarts that they’re going to be of age at this time, so they would be…

Noah: Do you think Muggle-born parents as well?

Rosie: Yeah, I’m sure. The kids would talk to them.

Noah: Maybe not. Some kids…

Rosie: Maybe not. [laughs] But it’s not just Fred and George as well. We saw Percy Apparate everywhere once he could, so it’s not just a trickster thing. It’s a thing that all kids go through.

Noah: Right. Our next response from Jessfudd:

“I think it makes sense for [witches and] wizards to be allowed to use magic based on age. It’s equitable and fair and if the age line from Goblet of Fire taught us anything, [very] difficult to fake. But maybe it should be more like getting a driver’s license, where you’re eligible based on age but not legal until you’ve proven a certain amount of proficiency. Maybe you get a ‘magical learner’s permit’ when you turn 17, then you become a fully credentialed wizard when you pass your NEWTs. And I’m sure the ministry could provide supplemental equivalency testing for [witches and] wizards taught at home, almost like a wizarding GED or at-home driver’s ed.”

Jessfudd, quite interesting words there. Cool. So that’s [unintelligible]. Maybe the Ministry should create it like a driver’s license sort of thing.

Rosie: Is this talking specifically about Apparition, or is it talking about magic in general? Because you have to have an Apparition license.

Noah: Well, the question is about magic in…

Caleb: Yeah, I think she’s taking it a step further, beyond the Apparition.

Rosie: Yeah. Well, you’ve had six or seven years of schooling, so you’ve had quite a lot of training in it.

Caleb: Yeah. And we’re talking about a lot of testing. And the Ministry’s got a lot of problems as it is to keep up with.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: But a good parallel to our world, I suppose.

Rosie: Definitely.

Noah: And the response to that comment, actually from Time&RelativDimensionInHandbag…

[Rosie laughs]

Noah: … which is a great name.

Caleb: I love these long usernames.

Noah: I assume that username is a direct reference to the bag Hermione uses in Book 7.

“A lot of people have mentioned the driver’s license parallel, which I think is totally apt, but the other parallel that struck me was to drinking (in most places but the US). In many places, the legal drinking age is 18 or so, which means that teens are legally able to drink at varying times in their final year of high school, depending on where their birthday falls. Before high school graduation, a Muggle student could conceivably vote, drink, get married, join the armed forces, own property, and make all kinds of other adult decisions. I don’t see being able to do magic as any different than that – it then is up to the student (hopefully with input from parents and others) to decide how to balance those freedoms with studies, and learn how to use those respectfully among others who may or may not have the same rights granted to them (because of the differences of months in age between classmates).”

What do you think of that?

Rosie: Yeah. I agree. Like I was saying before, the Apparition license is the most direct parallel to the driving license. So being able to use magic in your everyday life is more similar to having the rights to do the various list of things that she or he mentioned in that post. It’s more to do with being able to make your own decisions than it is being able to use a dangerous object in that sense. Does that make sense? I think it did. [laughs]

Caleb: [laughs] I buy that. Yeah.

Rosie: Good. Okay.

Noah: Yeah, I guess it’s tricky because Apparition could be clearly restricted, but with magic where exactly is the line? This comment from PhoenixFeathered1 should speak to that a little bit:

“I would leave it as students being allowed to do magic outside of school when they come of age. However, I would gradually allow them to use magic before they come of age. Have it where after so long they could perform very simple magic outside of school, i.e. ‘Lumos’ or ‘Wingardium Leviosa’. Maybe after some more time they could be allowed to perform some higher level magic, like the Summoning Charm, too. I would do this for all students. Muggle-borns could only be allowed to do it at home ([their] family already knows they are magical) and in magical areas like Diagon Alley. This build[-]up might help students from getting carried away when they turn 17 and learn responsibility. Plus Hermione would love it.”

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: And that’s all the only justification we really need. Hermione would love it.

Rosie: Which is kind of what they do in the films, isn’t it? They show Harry being able to rehearse his homework at home, doing Lumos [Maxima] and all that kind of stuff.

Noah: I was just confused about that.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: Yeah. It kind of goes against what we know.

Caleb: That seems a big problem, but…

Rosie: Never mind.

Noah: I think there is something to it, though. Like a regimented… every night, you get some spells then another year you get to try those spells. But I guess it needs to be stricter just to keep the Statute of Secrecy going.

Rosie: Yeah, it would be far too hard to police, I think.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: The idea of having young wizards scattered all around the country being able to do different degrees of magic. The trace isn’t that powerful, it just knows when there is some kind of magic happening somewhere near a wizard.

Noah: Right. Well, I think we sort of solved that then. So on the whole, we think that what the Ministry has going on is great – for now – with some… maybe a couple of amendments to the rule. But for the most part it’s what we want to follow. Great responses on the question this week. Respond next week to the next question.

Rosie: So now it is time to move on to our chapter.

[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 6 intro begins]

[Sound of flies buzzing]

Kreacher: Chapter 6.

Mrs. Weasley: All right, squirt.

Kreacher: “The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black.”

[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 6 intro ends]

Rosie: Okay, so this is probably my favorite chapter in this book. Maybe, I don’t know. There [are] probably some more coming up later on that I’ll say the same thing about, but…

[Caleb and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: … my username on the entire Harry Potter, Potterverse fandom stuff is Roxie Black. And it was chosen because I always wanted to be part of the Black family tree.

Noah: Hmm.

Rosie: And to have this chapter come out in the book after I chose that name and to have all of this information about the Blacks was just a dream come true to me.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: So I absolutely love this chapter. To give it a quick summary, it’s the next day in Grimmauld Place and we are watching as Harry settles into his new situation in the house and dwelling on the revelations of the argument in the night before. There are lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of really good details in this chapter that we would love to see you guys discuss on the site. So please pick some of these, chat about them, tell us your theories because we’d love to see them. Things like the fact that Phineas’s portrait is snoring on the wall of Harry’s bedroom. We don’t really know much about it yet, but it is there and it is always watching. We see that Ginny is growing in confidence. We hear Fred and George talking about her Bat-Bogey hexes, and that she is becoming someone to be afraid of. We are attacking some Doxies, which Noah loves to point out is creature abuse…

[Noah laughs]

Rosie: … so let’s not put those in with the Mandrakes, but let’s talk about that as well…

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: … especially with Fred and George and their product testing, and all of their things made out of Doxy venom.

Noah: It’s like animals, and putting make-up on animals, as far as I’m concerned.

Rosie: It is. Well, the Doxies are kind of already dead, so that’s even worse, but sure.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Dumbledore is the Secret Keeper of the Order of the Phoenix. He is keeping the house secret and safe. I have to say secret and safe. Damn movie quotes.

Caleb: Keep it secret. Keep it safe.

Rosie: Keep it secret, keep it safe. It’s obviously a very key point with the Secret Keepers and everything, and whether we trust them, and what happens once your Secret Keeper has either betrayed you or died. We’ll obviously find that out later on. Is it safe for Dumbledore to be the Secret Keeper of the Order? Does he trust anyone else to? And, of course, we see some giant spiders in this chapter. I’m with Ron again, I will run out of the room and make a cup of tea. That sounds like the perfect British thing to do.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: But to go into a bit more detail in some things. We, first of all, start off with the twins Apparating into Ron and Harry’s bedroom and discussing their theories of what the weapon could be. They talk about whether something would be to create pain, or something that’s worse than the Avada Kedavra curse. So what is worse than death, that we know of? What can be more horrific than what was already around in the first war? And of course, we know what that weapon turns out to be. Don’t we, boys? What is it?

Noah: I have no idea.

Caleb: Is it a really big sword?

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: Really? [laughs]

Caleb: No.

Noah: The prophecy.

Caleb: Prophecy?

Rosie: There we go. So the greatest weapon of all is, of course, knowledge. Brilliant. Yay, Hermione.

Caleb: Boom.

Noah: But I have some ideas. I was thinking – sort of spinning in my head – what could the super weapon be, that is worse than death? And my instant thought was the Dementors, the soul-sucking. So what if… I was pretending to be Fred and George for a second, thinking about what the weapon could be, and I thought what if it was a Dementor machine? Because we know sucking a soul out is worse than death. And what it would do is it’s this machine that attaches to your arm and you point it – it’s like a gun – and you suck souls out of people. [makes soul-sucking noise] Shoonk. Shoonk. Shoonk.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: You’ve just given people really… some ideas that make me really nervous.

Rosie: Uh-huh.

Noah: Yeah, well, I don’t…

Rosie: Isn’t that kind of like what the Scarecrow would do in Batman? Giving you nightmares, that kind of thing?

Caleb: Oh yeah, that is very similar.

Noah: Yeah. Well, that would be the lowest setting of the Dementor machine gun. But the second setting is actually sucking souls out of people.

Rosie: Okay.

Caleb: How high does it go up to? Eleven?

[Rosie laughs]

Noah: Yes. Yes, Jack Black. Oooh. [laughs]

Rosie: Noah, did you just say, “Yes, Jack Black?”

Noah: I did. He’s always like, “Turn it up to eleven.”

Rosie: Do you not know the provenance of “Turn it up to eleven?”

Noah: No.

Rosie: Okay. Research it. That is your task.

Caleb: I have a shirt. I have a shirt for that. “Turning it up to eleven.” Anyway, we’re getting off point.

Rosie: Yeah, it’s not Jack Black.

[Everyone laughs]

Nate: These go to eleven.

Rosie: [laughs] Anyway, the greatest weapon is knowledge, which is Hermione’s perfect thing. It’s… the fact that Voldemort is after it proves that he knows that this time the war will not be won with just brawn and cleverness. Yes it will, actually, it will be won with cleverness. He needs to know what went wrong the first time, and of course…

Noah: And it’s fascinating.

Rosie: It is fascinating.

Noah: It’s fascinating the weapon he’s finding… this knowledge is what will destroy him in the end as well.

Rosie: It really is.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: And all weapons can be used by either side. And of course we see later on that Harry can use this weapon just as well as Voldemort can.

Noah: Yeah, I mean, it’s his weapon too, in a way.

Rosie: We always pay attention to dreams, and Harry actually has a dream after this conversation, but this one doesn’t seem to be particularly important. But it is quite foreboding at the same time. We actually see Hagrid teaching a lesson about weapons that are horses with heads of cannons. Obviously that’s not a real thing, there’s no real connection in this. But I mean, think about it. Deadly horses. And in this book.

Noah: Thestrals.

Rosie: Thestrals. We see Hagrid teaching about Thestrals. There’s a foreboding link here.

Caleb: Ooh.

Noah: Nice.

Rosie: We know that there’s going to be a cannon pointed towards Harry when horses are involved. And sadly, later on we’ll find out that that means we are heading towards the demise of Sirius Black.

Noah: Not to mention all the snuff stuff in this chapter. He gets bit by a snuffbox.

Rosie: That’t true.

Noah: He says, “Call me Snuffles.”

Rosie: They’re battling against things hiding in the curtains. This is such a clever chapter, guys!

Caleb: Oh, I did not ever think about that.

Noah: Wait, I don’t get the curtain one.

Rosie: I love this book.

Noah: What am I missing?

Caleb: It’s how Sirius dies.

Noah: Oh, right.

Rosie: Death by drapery, Noah.

Noah: Right, okay, the what’s-it-called… [laughs]

Rosie: The veil.

Caleb: Come on, Noah.

Noah: The veil, yeah. I got it.

Caleb: Noah… guys, Noah has never actually read Harry Potter.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: This is his first time.

Noah: [laughs] You got me. Wait, wait…

Rosie: So speaking about the curtains…

Noah: Is a veil like a marriage veil? Does Sirius actually get married when he dies, to Bellatrix?

Rosie: No, a veil of curtains. It’s like a net curtains.

Noah: But I mean the veil. The veil is called a veil, and when you get married you put a veil on your head. Is there something to that?

Rosie: It’s a type of material.

Caleb: Come on, man, they’re different things.

Rosie: You’re veiling, you’re hiding, you’re blocking, you’re drawing a curtain over. They’re all the same idea.

Noah: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

[Rosie laughs]

Noah: Mhm!

Rosie: No, Noah.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Speaking about the curtains, this is a major point of this chapter. We are inside the drawing room for pretty much the entire time, which, of course, is where the Horcrux is hidden. This room has Doxies in the curtains, it has Boggarts in the writing desk, it’s full of really nasty things that have just amassed on the sideboards and the mantle pieces. It seems like Dark creatures are really attracted to this room and Dark things are attracted to this room more so than anywhere else in the house. Do we think that there’s a kind of a magnetic Horcrux thing attracting things?

Noah: I love that. Exactly, I think that’s it. Good one.

Rosie: It just… there’s just so much and it’s all in this room. I kind of kept waiting for her to mention something else. We go to the dining room later on, we’re touching into the kitchen occasionally but it’s all in this one room where all of the bad stuff is focused on.

Noah: What do you think, Nate?

Nate: I think it’s great how she puts all this hidden information inside of the books. Once you read them again you know, “Oh, that’s what happens later in the book.”

Rosie: Mhm.

Nate: It’s unexpected, yeah.

Noah: I think Jo is pretty cool but I wouldn’t… I don’t think it’s all intended. I think there’s a whole dimension of stuff that’s unintended and that’s really where I find my voice and irrelevance, often. But in this case, I think that was intended, with the Horcrux and stuff being attracted to that piece of Voldemort’s soul.

Caleb: See, I think most of what she does is… it has to be intended. If you read enough, there are very… there’s only one other author that I have ever read that even is in the same realm as the ability to do what she does.

Noah: Yeah.

Caleb: And that’s George R.R. Martin…

Noah: Uh-huh.

Caleb: … with a much more expansive plot.

Noah: Yeah.

Caleb: I feel like most of it has to be intentional.

Noah: Do you have any examples?

Caleb: With George R.R. Martin?

Noah: Yeah, even just a quick one, an easy one.

Caleb: There’s just a lot. I can’t think of anything off the top of my head but there’s… going back to A Storm of Swords…

Noah: Yeah.

Caleb: … there are a lot of small hints along the way that lead up to the Red Wedding and then what happens at the very end of A Storm of Swords in the epilogue – which I’m not going to spoil [laughs] – there’s just a lot of very similar elusive hints…

Noah: Mhm.

Caleb: … that reminded me of Rowling’s writing.

Noah: To be honest, I keep picking up Book 5 and I just can’t do it. I don’t know why. I just get distracted. They’re so big, they’re so big!

Caleb: I’m more than halfway through that one, so almost getting there.

Noah: Mhm.

Rosie: But we’re not a Game of Thrones podcast.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: We’re a Harry Potter podcast.

Caleb: The point was to talk about how she is very unmatched in that ability.

Rosie: Yes.

Caleb: So I feel like most of it is intentional.

Rosie: And the fact that she has managed to fit in so many details that seem so insignificant when she’s writing it here but then become so important later on is just amazing. Whether she went back and thought, “Oh, I mentioned a necklace there, let’s quickly turn that into a Horcrux,” I doubt it. It’s there, and it’s written in such a way…

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: … that is deliberately hiding it amongst other interesting things.

Caleb: Especially later this year with the…

Rosie: The Horcrux is just not described, yeah.

Noah: Well, I’m sure Kat is going “Genius moment!” on her end, so we’ll just do it. Genius moment!

Rosie: Yeah, definitely.

Caleb: Stamp it.

[Rosie laughs]

[Sound of a thud and cat yowling]

Rosie: But hidden in that there also some really quite funny lines. We have Mrs. Weasley screaming at Mundungus for bringing stolen cauldrons into the house and she shouts, “We are not running a hideout for stolen goods!” Which technically…

Caleb: You sure about that?

Rosie:… if you’re in the house of Black, you sure are.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: Especially when Kreacher keeps entering the room to steal them back again, but everything in that house is stolen and that locket in particular, we know has been stolen later on. It’s so important that these items do not really belong to the Black’s. It’s just… it’s brilliant. It’s genius. It’s…

Noah: On another note, here’s another example of Molly blowing up a little bit more than she probably would normally, if she wasn’t going through some psychological things. Kind of like Harry in the last chapter.

Rosie: Hmm. I think we have to give Molly some credit as well for actually trying to make this house a home.

Noah: Mhm.

Rosie: She lives in the Burrow. The Burrow is the paradise of houses and now she is thrown into this house which is dark, dank, full of horrible, disgusting things that she really doesn’t want to come into contact with and she’s trying to protect her children from the house itself and from the things outside.

Noah: It’s interesting the different forms that pure… being a pure-blood takes. You can either have the Weasley home or the Black home or the Malfoy…

Rosie: Malfoy Manor.

Noah: … home. Which is…

Rosie: Mhm.

Noah: Definitely… what were we talking about? Economics come into play with the Malfoy… pure-bloodness is all about being rich, in a way, rich with magic in the family line and also wealthy. For the Black’s it’s really just these ornaments, these dark objects that somehow represent their magic. And for the Weasley’s it’s just love, just a nice homely place.

Rosie: Definitely. We’ll come back onto those differences in pure-blood families a little bit later on.

Noah: Yes.

Rosie: But to mention those objects that the Blacks are so interested in, we’ve got some really brilliant, horrific things mentioned in this chapter. Things like, things that are reluctant to leave their shelves and Sirius gets a bite from a silver snuffbox, which Noah mentioned earlier, and it’s actually filled with Wartcap powder.

Noah: What is that?

Rosie: Which holds his… which turns his whole hand into a horrible, brown, scaly grossness.

Caleb: Yuck.

Rosie: Yeah. So, of course, the Weasley twins steal it to use in their Snackbox later on. [laughs]

Noah: There’s an interesting connection to Dumbledore having a hand issue and then dying, as well. Spoiler alert.

Rosie: Very true! Yeah, we see – yeah, this is one hand that gets infected and we see a Horcrux infecting one hand later on. So many links.

Noah: Mhm.

Rosie: Okay, can you make a link with this one? We’ve got an unpleasant instrument which has many legs and it’s like a many-legged tweezers and it runs up Harry’s arm like a spider and, oh, I get horrible… do we know anything like that in later books? Well, I guess we have giant spiders coming up.

Noah: Spider. Yeah, that’s pretty spidery. Or unless he… is there a scene where Harry tweezes anything off his face? I don’t think so.

Rosie: Not so sure. [laughs]

Caleb: Harry Potter with his cosmetic moments.

[Rosie laughs]

Noah: She doesn’t write about those. Or the bathroom stuff.

Rosie: She really doesn’t.

Caleb: She’s not going to write about them taking showers. She’s definitely not going to talk about this.

Noah: According to the canon, Caleb, they don’t take showers.

Caleb: That’s not true.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Noah: I’m just following the reading.

Rosie: Well, we have a soporific music box, which would have been very, very useful back in the first book with the three-headed dog.

Caleb: Mhm.

Rosie: Which actually Ginny saves the day for them there. So she closes the box and makes me all wake up again.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: So we’ve kind of got Book 1 and Book 2 merging in there.

Noah: Mhm.

Rosie: We’ve got all the circle theory coming back in again.

Noah: John Granger, hi.

Rosie: Yeah, and only then do we get mentioned a heavy locket, which none of them can open. And that’s all that is said.

Caleb: Because that’s not going to be important or anything.

Rosie: No, everything else gets a little bit of added description.

Noah: I totally knew that was the locket in Book 6, when we learned about Horcruxes. I was like, “That was it.”

Rosie: Yeah.

Noah: I am so smart.

Caleb: I never thought about it until it came back around.

Rosie: Really?

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: RAB is the worst kept secret in the entire book.

Noah: We all knew.

Caleb: Well, I knew that RAB…

Rosie: As soon as she said RAB, I was like, “Hang on a second, Regulus Black, there was a locket in that house.” [laughs]

Caleb: Yeah, I knew that it was going to be Regulus. I just had forgotten about that locket.

Noah: Hmm.

Rosie: It works on lots of different levels. So it’s there for people who can spot it straight away and it’s also there for people who go, “Oh my God, it was there all along.” Everyone’s happy, it’s cool. And after the locket, we get mentioned that Sirius’s grandfather had an Order of Merlin, First Class, which he likely bought from the Ministry. So that just gives you an idea of that family and where they get their…

Noah: Money speaks.

Rosie: Yeah, money speaks, unfortunately. And maybe that was a later Malfoy connection.

Noah: Hmm.

Rosie: But, as mentioned before, Kreacher is constantly coming into this room, muttering under his breath, and talking about Mudbloods. And this is the first time we meet him, but does he have any redeeming features in this book? We kind of start to like him later on in the other books, but in this one he’s just so horrible. And he’s such a contrast to Dobby, as well, despite the fact that they are both from Black family tree houses.

Caleb: Hmm.

Rosie: How did Kreacher and Dobby end up so different from each other?

Caleb: Yeah, because they both would have… I mean, Dobby certainly didn’t have a good set of masters to set him on that path.

Rosie: No.

Noah: It really reminds me of Harry and Voldemort. They both grew up as orphans with almost similar raising but ended up completely different.

Caleb: Well, that’s brilliant, actually. That’s a good point.

Rosie: That is, actually. Yeah, amazing.

Noah: Well, thank you.

Rosie: [laughs] The fact that Kreacher was left on his own for so long, like Tom Riddle was left on his own for so long…

Caleb: Yes.

Rosie: Yeah. Dobby had a family that he was being looked after by, even if they were not the best, yes.

Caleb: It comes down to your choices, like Dumbledore says.

Noah: Yes, yes.

Rosie: [laughs] It really does.

Caleb: It’s all about your choices.

Noah: But I will say for Kreacher, that is good, is he’s completely faithful to his masters. Even though they are warped, he is continuously faithful, even going up to the portrait and still doing her whims even if she’s dead, the mother. So I think there’s something to be said about that, even if it is their nature as house-elves.

Caleb: Yeah. Hmm. Also, just like the Voldemort and Harry comparison lends itself to show Harry’s strength of character, the foil here between Dobby and Kreacher lends itself to show how great of a character Dobby is.

Noah: Right.

Rosie: It really does.

Caleb: And that he’s really one of a kind among house-elves.

Noah: Oh, yeah.

Rosie: And think of their catchphrases as well. I mean, Dobby is always saying, “Harry Potter,” and Kreacher is always saying, “Mudbloods.” It really works. [laughs]

Caleb: Mhm. Yeah.

Rosie: The other thing I wanted to ask was how much Kreacher actually knows about Harry. Mrs. Black did die while Sirius was in prison, so that’s after the fall of Voldemort. So she would have had time to tell Kreacher what was going on and to tell her portrait that as well so that she could use those instructions in her second painted life. So does Kreacher have an inbuilt dislike of Harry because of what happened to the Black family? Or does he not have a real opinion of him yet?

Noah: I thought it was more mystery when I was reading it. He was mystified by this person who could defeat the Dark Lord. But not hatred; more so just for Hermione and the other masters and Sirius, of course.

Caleb: Yeah, I wouldn’t guess he would know that much about Harry. I’m sure Mrs. Black was very upset about Voldemort falling and probably talked about that, but she probably didn’t talk that specifically about Harry. His name may have come up, I guess, but I bet he doesn’t know too much.

Rosie: What do you think, Nate?

Nate: I think Kreacher is sort of, I don’t know, perplexed that Harry Potter… he knows that Harry Potter is the guy who defeated Voldemort and put him on… basically dead for thirteen years. And he’s kind of amazed that he’s friends with – in his view – Mudbloods, people who aren’t worthy of the Black household.

Rosie: Hmm. Considering what we know about Kreacher’s… the roots of his insanity and what happened with Regulus later on, do you think we can see any of the Kreacher who was loved by Regulus in the Kreacher that we see at this time?

Nate: Well, he’s still obeying Sirius, even reluctantly, but he’s still obeying his masters and his mistress.

Rosie: Do you think he’s trying to get in there to steal that locket in particular because he knows it’s more important than other people are letting on?

Nate: Yeah. He’s trying to, I guess, avenge Regulus. He wants to put an end to Voldemort but… yeah.

Rosie: Hmm.

Noah: Good point, really. I forgot about that.

Rosie: It may not really be true. He may be going after the tapestry like the book says, but it’s interesting that he is constantly trying to steal things from that room. And we know that he was tasked to destroy that particular locket.

Noah: Right. I mean, I think he was going for the locket.

Rosie: Caleb?

Caleb: Yeah. I mean, it’s tough. Kreacher is such a tough character to figure out here because it’s such a… well, his unraveling is so interesting when you find out about he and Regulus. But yeah, it makes sense. I would say he’s going for the locket here.

Noah: I even feel like there’s a quote. She might have even said that in an interview.

Rosie: Really?

Noah: I just…

Rosie: Dear listeners, if you can find that quote, let me know. Tweet it to me.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: Within the book itself, though, the idea is planted that he is trying to save the tapestry, and that obviously leads us into Sirius talking to us about what that tapestry is and what it represents. And if you want to see the tapestry in full, don’t take a look at the movie version… although it is amazing, and you can go and see it at the Studio Tour as well; it’s up on the wall. It’s brilliant. It has a few errors in it that we know are errors because Jo has actually written it all out for us, and that is available online and you can see it, I think, on her website. It might not be there anymore, but it’s definitely on lots of the Harry Potter fansites, and probably on MuggleNet somewhere as well. I’ll try and dig out the link. But she auctioned off a handwritten version of it, and Dan Radcliffe actually bought it for $30,000, I think it was, to go to charity. So I just love that of all the people to buy it, of course it was going to be Dan. [laughs]

Noah: Yeah, that, and I wonder what other stuff or swag he has taken off the set. All the actors… I think they’re asked that question almost ritualistically, but I’m sure there’s stuff that we don’t know, that they don’t say. [laughs]

Rosie: Yeah. But it’s nice that he bought it rather than just took it as well. He committed to purchasing something for charity that he would also have access to the information of. I’m sure he could just go and ask Jo for his own version. [laughs]

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: But we are zeroing in on some of the different characters on this family tree: some that we already know the names of, some that we’ve never heard of before. There is actually a Potter on that family tree, which… there is a big question about whether Harry is actually related to him or not. I think it’s probably pretty likely that he is. He himself is not on the tapestry, but that’s fairly obvious as the son of a Muggle-born. But James isn’t on there either. We don’t know if he was blasted off or not. Possibly not. Possibly ran out of room. But the family that is on there… we’ve got a Potter and a Black marrying together, and that really would make sense that Harry would be on there somewhere. We know that the Potters come from a pure-blood family and that if Harry is going to be related to the third brother of the Three Brothers story, then he has to be in that family tree somewhere. So do you guys…

Caleb: Yeah, I can’t imagine it being another Potter that Harry is just in no way related to except thousands of generations back. Yeah, I agree, it has to be some at least relatively distant relationship.

Noah: There was Mark Evans and we know there’s no relation between Lily Evans and Mark Evans so it could be…

Caleb: Yeah, but Mark Evans is a Muggle and obviously Lily grew up a Muggle, and the wizarding community is much smaller.

Noah: Good point.

Caleb: Evans is a much more common name. Well, I shouldn’t say “much more,” but I would say a more common name than Potter. So you take that into the magical community…

Noah: Yeah.

Caleb: … very unlikely that they’re not related.

Rosie: Mhm. It would be fascinating to know more about them. Come on, Pottermore. [laughs]

Noah: The whole wizard line is a little tricky. It’s kind of Edgar Allan Poe-y with…

Rosie: Yeah.

Noah: What story am I thinking of? The Fall of The House of Usher.

Caleb: Yes. Love.

Rosie: Yeah. Which is another one for brilliant foreshadowing and all those little details falling…

Noah: Yeah, I mean, between the dark houses, it’s definitely a similar gothic aesthetic.

Rosie: Mhm. Definitely. Speaking of a gothic aesthetic, let’s talk about the Lestranges.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Some of the key names on the tree are obviously the three sisters. We have Andromeda, Bellatrix, and Narcissa. One who married Tonks, a Muggle-born, and was blasted off the family tree; one who married Rodolphus… is it Rodolphus? Yes, Rodolphus Lestrange; and one who married Lucius Malfoy. It’s a very odd extended family. It’s the good, the bad, and the not-quite-ugly… and what would you think of if you had that family as your family tree? [laughs] Honestly, you’ve got one cousin who is completely disowned, one cousin who is really crazy, and you just sat there in the middle going, “Look at my blonde hair, isn’t it pretty?” [laughs]

Noah: Right.

Caleb: I mean, honestly, even though the Black family tree is filled with a lot of – to put moderately – questionable people, I would love to be a part of that because it’s so much history in the magical world. Obviously, not everyone’s perfect, but being a part of that family, you know you can trace so much back of your family that has been so important in the wizarding community.

Noah: That’s true.

Caleb: I guess you have to take the good with the bad, but I’m thinking, just objectively, it’s such a rich history.

Rosie: Mhm.

Noah: Darkly rich. Especially…

Rosie: If you could place yourself in one of those three families, which family would you put yourself in? Tonks, Lestrange, or Malfoy?

Caleb: Oh, I mean, if we…

Rosie: It’s a tough one, because they would all be interesting in different ways.

Caleb: Yeah. If we want to be good people, I guess we have to say Tonks, but…

[Rosie laugh]

Noah: I’d said say Lestrange. [laughs]

Caleb: And I would say… ugh, they’re horrible, but if I’m thinking objectively again… this is my Slytherin side showing, but I would say Malfoy because the Malfoy family history that Rowling put on Pottermore is one of my favorite things she’s unveiled on Pottermore…

Rosie: True, yeah.

Caleb: … probably second to McGonagall’s backstory and…

Noah: Yeah.

Caleb: … in just the way she wove it into British history just was wonderful.

Rosie: Mhm.

Noah: They have a big political history. Is that correct?

Rosie: Yeah, they do.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: And their money is connected to that, as well.

Caleb: Mhm. And they weren’t always against marrying into Muggle families. It wasn’t until the Statute of Secrecy started brewing that that became a big deal for their family. It was more just about power and influence, so…

Rosie: Mhm.

Noah: Right.

Rosie: And alongside all of this, we’ve obviously got the Black family motto, which is “Toujours Pur.” The idea that… it means “Always Pure,”ù so you’re never going to dilute the bloodstream if you are a Black, which is – Black – you can’t really dilute black solvent. You always have to have a pure color if you are black, so it works with the actual name as well. But I wanted to point out the World War II similarities in there. You’ve got the idea of the Aryan race, the idea of pure blood coming up immensely strongly here, and you’ve got to put these plot parallels in there. As Noah mentioned with Malfoys and politics a second ago, you’ve got this idea that the Blacks are the best family and whether that is a good idea or not…

Noah: Whoa, Rosie…

Rosie: … it’s not pretty.

Noah: I think if you make the World War II connection, then it’s this idea that there is this nationalism thing going on…

Rosie: Mhm.

Noah: … for families. But I see it a different way, at least, for Judaism. There’s always a sense that you have to marry another Jew, you have to keep the Jewish blood there. And I’ve always been sort of put off about that a little bit. I’m not sure how I feel about it, but that’s why I think sometimes keeping the blood in the family, it’s almost… in some religions, actually, that is what is the case.

Rosie: Hmm.

Noah: So I wonder if for the Blacks it’s more political, more religious, or more nationalistic that they do what they do.

Rosie: Sure, I mean, you’ve got the class idea in that as well. If any of our listeners watch Downton Abbey, you’ll have seen… or if you know about British history, or any other country’s history probably, as well, it’s got this class structure. The elite classes are always intermarrying and trying to keep their elite status pure by intermarrying and if you ever run off with a commoner – or a Mudblood, in the case of Tonks – then you will get disowned and you will have that cut off from your family idea. So there are lots and lots of parallels that we can draw the Blacks into. I’m saying “umm”ù a lot today. I’m sorry. [laughs] Yeah, so the Blacks work on so many levels and it’s a brilliant family history that is so detailed and so perfect that it’s amazing that they’re not actually real.

Noah: Are they?

Rosie: Or are they?

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Sirius did run away from the Black family and as far as we know, he’s the only one to ever do it other than marrying into other families. He just left home when he was sixteen, so before he was of age as well, remember? And it’s the first time we ever hear about the Potters family because he ran away to James’s house and stayed with James’s parents, who actually treated him pretty much like a second son.

Noah: Which makes sense because he’s related, potentially.

Rosie: Yeah, potentially.

Caleb: True. So Pottermore/Jo, since you’re listening, this chapter would be a great opportunity to tell us more about the Potters taking Sirius in.

Noah: Yeah!

Rosie: It really would, yes! Please do that! [laughs]

Caleb: That is my request. [laughs]

Noah: Nate, you must be pretty fascinated about the family tree as a Slytherin?

Nate: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.

Noah: Which family would you belong in?

Note: Probably Malfoy. It’d be pretty cool life living in that big manor.

Noah: Yes.

Nate: Well, it probably wouldn’t be that onem but if you’re a descendant of them, you’d probably be stinking rich and stuff, but…

Caleb: So you would pick Malfoy over Black?

Nate: Yeah.

Caleb: Because both our guests are pretty big traditional Slytherin families.

Nate: Yeah.

Noah: Malfoy, sorry. Draco would give you a hard time, though, if you were his brother or something.

Nate: Yeah, probably.

Noah: Or maybe he wouldn’t? I don’t know.

Nate: Maybe.

Rosie: So carrying on from where we were. We… yeah, this is the first time we hear about the Potters family, but it’s also the first time we really hear about Sirius’s backstory both when he ran away and from before. We hear a little bit about Regulus, who we discover is Sirius’s brother. We… I don’t think we actually knew that he had a brother before this chapter either. And we discover that he died fifteen years ago. Harry is fifteen in this book.

Noah: Rosie, does Regulus mean anything?

Rosie: I believe it does. It’s… hang on a second, let me just check. I’m fairly sure it’s a star.

Noah: And Sirius is a star?

Rosie: Yes, Sirius is the Dog Star and Regulus…

Caleb: I think that it means “rule”ù in Latin.

Rosie: Yeah, like to reign, regent.

Caleb: Yeah, regal. Yep.

Rosie: And it’s actually a star that’s found in Leo, the lion, which is interesting.

Caleb: Hmm, that’s Gryffindor.

Rosie: Regulus, not a Gryffindor, of course.

Noah: You’d expect Sirius to have that.

Rosie: Exactly.

Caleb: But he ends a Gryffindor, I will argue.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: He really does. He’s so brave in what he actually does.

Caleb: Hmm.

Rosie: Interesting, isn’t it?

Noah: The Blacks are all filled with hot air, like stars.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: Jo knew what she was doing. She, if anything else, she knows what she’s doing with her names.

Rosie: Mhm.

Noah: Yes. That’s for sure.

Rosie: We also discovered that when he died, he died as a Death Eater, or rather, as a Death Eater that was trying to escape from Voldemort’s clutches.

Caleb: Mhm.

Rosie: Whether or not he was killed by Voldemort himself, we don’t know, but Sirius thinks that he wasn’t actually important enough, which is quite sad. He was your brother, but no. I mean, he was horrible but still. [laughs]

Noah: It’s not far off, given what we know what happens to him, he is killed by… he’s trying to escape the clutches of Voldemort destroys him.

Rosie: Yeah, he does actually know a surprising amount about how Regulus died considering the shady circumstances in which it happened.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: But Regulus is a lot more important than he ever imagined.

Noah: I don’t think Sirius knows anything.

Rosie: Sorry Noah, go ahead.

Noah: I don’t think Sirius knows anything, but his speculation is not far off.

Rosie: I think he said that he found out stuff. So he must have been able to ask someone.

Noah: But then he would have known about the cave and all that.

Rosie: No, he doesn’t know that kind of detail.

Noah: Yeah.

Rosie: True, yeah. Nate, did you just say Kreacher?

Nate: Yeah, the Kreacher.

Rosie: Yeah, maybe Kreacher told him.

Nate: Yeah, he witnessed Regulus’s death. So Sirius probably demanded for him to tell him what happened or something.

Noah: Yeah, yeah.

Rosie: And creature would have only told him the barest details because he doesn’t want to betray his master’s trust.

Caleb: Hmm.

Rosie: Maybe that is how he found out.

Noah: So maybe Kreacher is a tragic character because he’s crossed between these different masters.

Rosie: He really is a tragic character. If you don’t think he’s a tragic character, then you need to re-read some of these books. [laughs]

Caleb: If only Sirius had been better to him, imagine what… how things could have turned out for the better.

Rosie: Hmm.

Caleb: But Sirius was a complete jerk to him, so…

Noah: And Sirius will get his just desserts for that.

Caleb: Well, I don’t know if it’s his just desserts, but…

Noah: Retribution.

Caleb: He get’s retribution, sure.

Rosie: Yeah. So we should always be nice to our house-elves.

Noah: I’m always nice to my house-elves.

Caleb: Because I think, Noah, what you were just telling the Harry Potter fandom was that Sirius Black deserved to die.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Whoops!

Noah: I did not say that Harry Potter fandom. [laughs]

Caleb: I’m making a T-shirt.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Noah: That is a misconception.

Caleb: “Noah Fried told me Harry Potter”ù – or, “Noah Fried told me Sirius Black deserved to die.”

Noah: Yes, that’s what I’m saying. You know what? Why? Why not? I will take this one on. [laughs] The fandom will hate me.

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Noah: Ugh!

Rosie: While we’re on the topic of punishment, this chapter ends by talking about the fact that it is Harry’s trial the next day and Mrs. Weasley has been very kind and ironed his clothes and tells him to shower and wash his hair and look all nice and posh and very smart for the trial and, “Just don’t be afraid, Harry. It’ll all turn out all right in the end.” And that’s the end of the chapter.

Noah: Very nice. I think that was great.

Caleb: That was a rich chapter. I really do love it.

Noah: I also thought the format was very conducive this time. This thing.

Caleb: Yeah. Rosie, you did a good job of keeping it chronological and big picture…

Rosie: Thank you.

Caleb: … with still sprinkling minor details, which is exactly what we’re looking for.

Noah: Exactly.

Rosie: Good. So, listeners, that’s the kind of thing we’re going to carry on with, so we’re going to try and maybe theme our topics slightly, so we will pick out all of the details from the chapter and just group it together into a more digestible system. [laughs]

Caleb: Yes.

Noah: So here’s the Question of the Week, and it’s something we haven’t really touched upon. So, as we know, in this chapter and the ones that came before, there are two prominent mother figures in the house of Black. There is Mrs. Black herself, even if she is in a portrait, and then, there is Mrs. Weasley. And my question for everyone is, to what extent is Sirius’s issues with Molly Weasley connected to his issues with his actual mother, Mrs. Black? Does he have some sort of deep-seated psychological issue with a mother and is therefore threatened by Molly Weasley, even though she is so different from his original mother? And add on to that Harry’s issues with Molly. How is that related to his own issues with his deceased mother? Or how he is thinking about it? So lots of psychology here. I mean, you can get into Jung or Freud. I mean, I… not too much Freud on this show, but there is a lot of theory out there, so any kind of responses are fair game. We’ll talk about them on the next episode.

Rosie: So all that remains is to thank our wonderful guest, Nate. We really hope that you’ve enjoyed yourself this week on our show.

Nate: Well great. It was great. Thank you for having me.

Rosie: Thanks for being on.

Caleb: Yeah. It’s good to have a Slytherin on, especially when we’re talking about such Slytherin-based families.

Nate: Yeah.

Caleb: And if you would like to join our show like Nate, then we would love to have you. You can find out the information about how that can be possible for you on the Be on the Show page, which you will find on alohomora.mugglenet.com. If you have a set of Apple headphones, those work really great, but those aren’t the only things you would need. You don’t really need any fancy equipment, just something that makes you sound really spiffy and awesome.

Noah: It’s true. And if you want to contact us at the Alohomora! podcast, you can reach us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, on Facebook – facebook.com/openthedumbledore – on Tumblr – mnalohomorapodcast.tumblr.com. You can call us at 206-GO-ALBUS – that is 206-462-5287. Subscribe to us on iTunes, leave us a review – we love to read those. And you can also follow us on Snapchat at mn_alohomora. You can also leave us an Audioboo message, which we like to play on the show sometimes and discuss, and it’s totally free. So you can find the Audioboo tab to record on the Alohomora! website.

Rosie: And if you do check us out on Audioboo, we are going to try and give a little preview of what our upcoming episodes are going to be on Fridays from now on. So do follow us on Audioboo and make sure you check back to know what’s coming in the next episode. Along with that, we also have, as always, our store. We have T-shirts, tote bags, sweatshirts, flip-flops, water bottles, travel mugs, and much, much more. There are over 80 products to choose from and more coming soon. We have ringtones that are also free and available on our website, so do check them out.

Caleb: And also make sure to check out our smartphone app, which is available seemingly worldwide. Prices vary. We have things on there like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much more.

Noah: And I want to remind everybody, I said it on a couple of shows ago, that I have a new podcast. It is adult in nature and it is just for adults. So you can check that out by just finding me on Twitter at @Noahdude28. Just scroll down – you’ll see a link to it. It’s really fun for me to do, and I love this podcast as well, but it allows me to get into some other topics that I cannot talk about on this show. And that is all I will say.

[Show music begins]

Caleb: Great. Well, thanks for joining us for another episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.

Noah: I’m Noah Fried.

Rosie: And I’m Rosie Morris. Thank you for listening to Episode 83 of Alohomora!

Noah: Open the Dumbledore!

[Show music continues]

[Rosie’s cat, Monty, meows in the background]

Noah: Who’s that?

Rosie: My cat is now meowing at me. I’m sorry.

Caleb: The cat’s agreeing.

[Monty continues to meow in the background]

Rosie: Monty!

[Noah and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Hang on, I need to go and get rid of him. Be right back.

Noah: Adorable.

[Sound clip of someone saying “These go to eleven!”]