Transcript – Episode 80
[Show music begins]
Noah Fried: This is Episode 80 of Alohomora! for April 19, 2014.
[Show music continues]
Noah: Hey everybody, I am back to the show after a brief hiatus. I’m Noah Fried.
Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.
Rosie Morris: And I’m Rosie Morris, who has been away equally as long as Noah, I think. So don’t think that actually either of us count as a hiatus, but never mind.
[Everyone laughs]
Rosie: Welcome to our special guest, Tyler Dean. Tyler, introduce yourself.
Tyler Dean: Hi, guys. My name is Tyler. I am a senior, BFA theater performance major at University of Michigan.
Noah: Right, and because of that…
Kat: Awesome.
Noah: … of that Michigan connection you know some people that we know.
Tyler: I do. I have met the StarKids on multiple occasions.
Noah: Ah.
Kat: That impresses my fellow hosts, but not I.
[Kat and Tyler laugh]
Tyler: They’re nice people.
Rosie: StarKid is not necessary to be a Harry Potter fan, but we love that you go to that same university. It’s awesome. [laughs]
Tyler: Go Blue.
Noah: Go Blue, indeed.
Rosie: I’d also like to point out that this is actually our two year anniversary of the show. We’ve got 80 episodes under our belt, including this one, and I can’t actually believe that we made it to two years and we’ve still got so much ahead of us.
Kat: So much? We haven’t even hit halfway yet.
Noah: We’re not even halfway. This is nuts. This has never been before undertaken.
Kat: I know that’s true! No podcast has actually made it through Order of the Phoenix before. We will be the pioneer.
Noah: We are growing together as hosts and all the listeners who are listening to us are growing with us, changing. They will have a manifold experience, and yeah, I wrote something on social media recently to publicize the show and I got pretty emotional about it.
Kat: And if the listeners out there haven’t read out anniversary post, you should go check it out. We all share favorite moments from the last year and things like that. So that’s at alohomora.mugglenet.com.
Rosie: We really do want to thank you guys. If anyone stuck with us for the whole two years, you guys are amazing. We’ve loved every minute. If you are just joining us, you’ve got two years worth of episodes to catch up on.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Not quite. Only about what, 80 hours?
[Kat laughs]
Noah: It’s only 80 shows. You would think it would be more.
Kat: Don’t forget the early ones are two hours. So it’s probably more.
Rosie: Oh, that’s true.
Kat: More like 100 hours. Or maybe it’s 120 hours. So get on that, huh? Get on that.
Rosie: [laughs] Where have you been?
Kat: That’s right. Get caught up.
Noah: This is the… we’re discussing Chapter 3 in this episode, “The Advance Guard.” If you have not read the chapter first, we highly recommend it because it will make you enjoy the listening much more.
Kat: Of Order of the Phoenix, right?
Noah: Of Order of the Phoenix, yes.
Kat: Right. Yeah, okay. But of course, as usual, before we jump into today’s chapter, we’re going to discuss comments from last week’s chapter, which was Chapter 2 of Order of the Phoenix, “A Peck of Owls.” And our first comment here comes from DolphinPatronus on the main site.
Kat: And this is about our favorite Squib…
[Noah makes a dolphin sound]
Kat: … Mrs. Figg. What was that noise?
Rosie: I think that was meant to be a dolphin noise.
Kat: Oh, was that Noah?
Noah: [laughs] That was weird. Where did that come from?
Kat: Was that you, Noah? Or was it Tyler?
Noah: I think it was the dolphin Patronus.
Tyler: It was the Patronus.
Kat: Oh, okay. Anyway, the comment says,
“I don’t understand why you guys are are so befuddled by Mrs. Figg having so much knowledge of the wizarding world. Sure she’s a Squib, but that means she came from a family of wizards. I know SOME wizard families send Squibs to live with Muggles but not ALL of them do. She most likely grew up in a wizarding home that let her stay even though she wasn’t magical. For all we know, she was married to a wizard. She has obviously been in constant contact with the WW her entire life. I believe Dumbledore asked her to live near and befriend the Dursleys from the beginning so she could keep an eye on Harry for him. Who better to infiltrate and spy on Muggles than a Squib?”
So this came from the discussion… there was a lot of discussion about Mrs. Figg last week.
Noah: Yeah. Well, I for one had never really thought about Mr. Figg. So that throws a whole thing into the mix.
Kat: Yeah, I think we even brought him up on the first episode for Order. He’s getting a lot of play time, a lot of airtime. But yeah, I agree with this comment.
Noah: I mean she had to find a way to be useful. She’s like, as far as Squibs go, she has one of the biggest jobs ever. Protecting Harry. So…
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: … she probably feels very important to the magical world. Same way Argus Filch needs to be a part of Hogwarts because they’re part of the intersection between the Muggle world and the wizarding world. They want to be involved in the magic world and they feel left out, but at the same time they can do stuff for wizards… wizards and witches that they can’t rightly do because they’re Squibs probably more easily act more like Muggles and be around them.
Kat: Do you think she’s ever tried the Kwikspell like Filch?
Noah: Maybe.
Rosie: Isn’t she still meant to be an old lady, though? She’s retired, she’s maybe even a widow. Maybe that’s why there’s no Mr. Figg around.
Tyler: Maybe.
Rosie: Might just be having a second life as Dumbledore’s spy. [laughs]
Kat: Right.
Rosie: After maybe her main Muggle version of a life as a Squib…
Noah: Do we know for sure that she’s married?
Rosie: … in the wizarding world, we don’t know.
Kat: Well, she’s “missus.”
Tyler: She’s “missus” but Mr. Figg could be cat for all we know.
Rosie: [laughs] It’s true.
Noah: Ooh.
Kat: Ha, ha. That’s totally a possibility, isn’t it?
Noah: Now, if I had said that you wouldn’t get that response.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: That’s not true. That is not true.
[Noah laughs
Kat: I love your crazy jokes.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: I just don’t like the crazy jokes.
Noah: Ooh.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: There’s a big deal between crazy and crazy.
Kat: Yes, there’s a big difference.
Rosie: It’s all in the eyes.
Kat: Yeah. Which you guys can’t see. Post a Vine or something. Anyway, next comment comes from AccioPotassium! on the main site.
[Noah makes a sound]
Kat: It says… really?
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Was that a sneeze?
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: That was a…
Rosie: I think that was potassium.
Noah: [laughs] That was potassium. That’s weird.
Kat: What is that? A banana? How does potassium appear?
Noah: This is getting into some weird territory. I am not really sure.
[Rosie laughs]/
Kat: All right. Okay. Fine. Let me read the comment then.
Noah: Okay.
Kat: Right. It says,
“In this chapter, Aunt Petunia acquires a Howler from Albus Dumbledore. This letter gives warning to Petunia to not abandon her nephew in his time of need. Although the Howler message is rather interesting in its own right, […] it’s not what I really want to discuss. In the letter’s address, it lists the location far greater than the Muggle post does. This Howler somehow knew the exact location of Petunia Evans, which was in the kitchen at that moment. How could Albus Dumbledore know exactly where Aunt Petunia was when he had sent his message? Was the Dursley family being watched by the Order of the Phoenix at this moment, even inside their own home? Is there some kind [of] magic that allows the sender to know where the person is, and will be when the letter is obtained? If there is no magical explanation, could I play devil’s advocate in writing ‘Is Albus Dumbledore using sexist stereotypes when sending his owl mail?'”
Rosie: No.
Noah: I am not… what? You cannot just throw sexist stereotypes into everything, AccioPotassium!
Rosie: Just because she is in the kitchen does not mean she is always going to be in the kitchen.
Noah: Yeah.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: I think…
Tyler: Sometimes the garden.
Noah: I think while reading this, that…
Kat: Right? [laughs]
Noah: … that I had a flashback back to the episode that Steve Vander Ark was on and was talking about how Dumbledore trusts in the magical universe to work stuff out sometimes, and this seems to be one of those moments where he had to send it, he had a feeling or an urge and it happened to get there at precisely the right moment and I do not think he was studying, through some orb, the Dursley home.
Rosie: It is magic! The location will change on the front in the same way that all of Harry’s Hogwarts letters manage to find him even though they were hidden inside eggs and things in the first book or when he was traveling to the Hut on the Rock, the letter was addressed to the Hut on the Rock. I don’t think Hagrid could have stopped and changed the writing because he cannot even spell…
Noah: Hmm.
Rosie: … so that magic will be able to track the recipient and to change where the letter should be.
Kat: So do you think it morphs on the letter itself? Is that what you are saying?
Rosie: Yeah, why not? We have seen things… we have seen there’s a quill that will correct your spellings, so just use one that corrects your location. Like Google Maps. [laughs]
Noah: How did it get there at exactly the right time to save Harry from getting kicked out of the Dursley home?
Rosie: Because Dumbledore is aware that something has happened, that the Dementors have attacked, and that Harry was about to be expelled, so he knew…
Noah: But why would he write, “Remember my last”?
Rosie: Because he knew that it would be contentious within the Dursley household, because he knows what is going on there and he knows that it is likely to make there be an argument.
Noah: He is really smart.
Kat: Oh! And also, it is more dramatic that way.
Rosie: Yeah.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: Whoa. We are talking about… you cannot do that. That breaks the fourth wall. We are talking about the world as how it is.
Kat:Oh, well, I was just playing devil’s advocate, like AccioPotassium!
Noah: Yes.
Tyler: So is the question, How did the Howler know where to go or when to come?
Noah: How did Dumbledore know to send it in the right time that it would get to Petunia right in the moment when Harry needed it most so that Petunia could say, “Vernon, don’t send him away”?
Tyler: Right.
Kat: Well, that is not what the question says.
Noah: Oh.
Kat: But this is a good question.
Noah: Then I had another question.
Rosie: Well, doesn’t Dumbledore answer that question later on, in the very last chapter of this book?
Kat: I believe so. Yes.
Noah: Oh.
Rosie: So we will come back to it then, Noah.
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Noah: That’s a lot of mystery.
Kat: Right. So this last one is from our forums from QuibbleQuaffle.
[Noah makes a dolphin noise and laughs]
Kat: Is that a goat?
Tyler: No, I think it is the dolphin Patronus again.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Oh, is that it? Okay. [laughs]
Tyler: [laughs] Must be.
Rosie: We are sorry, guys. This is going to be an episode.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: It definitely is.
“I always thought that Rowling’s main social/political goal if any would have been to encourage children to watch the news and question their own government’s policies rather than blindly accepting everything the newsreader/politicians say. The Ministry of Magic seems to me to be a very backwards, almost caricature of a corrupt government, controlled maybe nominally by democracy but in practise by people with the money and influence like good ol’ Lucius. I don’t know what it’s like in America but in Britain everyone I’ve ever met has been very comfortable calling the government out on anything they disagree with, which is often quite a lot of things. To me it always seemed strange that in the wizarding world this wasn’t acceptable and I reckon that if she’s promoting anything she’s promoting free thought and a free press and stuff, rather than criticising the British government specifically. Basically I don’t think she’s criticising the real government all that much, but she’s encouraging her readers to do so.”
So this stemmed from a large discussion about the Ministry of Magic and its policies and all that. So what do you guys think?
Noah: I think the British are smarter than Americans anyway, if you look at the whole cultures. This is just my own take when it comes to politics. People in America, we tend to think that the government are on our side a lot of the time, and in Europe, they are more conscious of how the government is its own entity and is getting into the hearts and minds of the people and it is more this independent body, but with politics here, people just love taking sides and going all into it, and that is not me at all.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: It is funny because I was in Washington, DC last week and I finally got to go see the official documents. Like the Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence and all that…
Noah: Yup.
Kat: … and there was a line. I wish I could remember it, but it was something about like, “This document is going to help us rid the country of the rule of England by,” it was like, “poverty, low wages,” it was a bunch of things, and I laughed, and I was like that literally hasn’t changed at all because the climate is exactly the same as it was.
Noah: Exactly. Nothing ever really is changing.
Kat: Right. Exactly, so I would agree that… I don’t know, I feel like the British government works a little better than the American government, but no government is perfect.
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: I would agree with that. I think that the interesting thing about the media aspect is how much control over the media… because, I mean, the question was asking about encouraging people to watch the news, and the relationship between the media and the government. In the wizarding world we see that as a very, very corrupt thing. Especially later on when basically the government takes over the Leaky Cauldron. Not Leaky Cauldron, the Daily Prophet, and that’s the only real newspaper that we see that is the main public newspaper, not a magazine like Witch Weekly or The Quibbler. So when your population is so small and controlled by one thing, and that thing controls all of the public information, then you’re definitely going to have a more corrupt system and less chance to criticize it in a way because you’re not being educated by having multiple viewpoints to make up your own opinion.
Noah: Mhm.
Rosie: Which I think is very different in the Muggle world because we, whichever nation you’re from, generally have a lot more information available to us to make up our own minds, so that’s probably why the wizarding world acts so differently. Because it is so small.
Kat: And they don’t have Twitter. They don’t have Twitter to pass the news.
[Noah laughs]
Rosie: They don’t.
Kat: Right. Oh, that’s sad for them.
Noah: No, it’s great for them. They’re still pure. They’re still not swayed by the movements of random stuff that floats on the internet like us.
Rosie: Just think how different these books would be if they were written now rather than ten years ago.
Kat: Oh my God. That’s a whole episode all on its own.
Noah: “Harry stopped fighting Voldemort for a moment to look down and check his phone.”
[Kat laughs]
Tyler: Take an Instagram.
Kat: Yeah, right? “Somebody reblogged one of his things and he got so excited that…” yeah, awful. It would be so bad.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: He’s like, “Wait, let me Vine this.”
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Oh wow, look at the golden arch between our wands. Let me just grab my phone.
Noah: If somebody listening would like to write an elaborate fan fiction about this or any scene, we’d love to share it on our social media because that would be really funny.
Kat: That would be.
Rosie: Everyone would love Crookshanks more because they could just follow him around going, “Do something viral. Do something viral,” just because they’ll film it for YouTube.
Kat: Yeah, right. Exactly. That’d be really funny.
Noah: It’d be an interesting study – I’m going on tangents again, but this will be the last one – to try to guess what…
Kat: No, it won’t.
Noah: … Harry, Hermione, or Ron would Facebook or tweet throughout their days.
Kat: That would be pretty funny.
Rosie: There have been some brilliant role play accounts based on this.
Noah: Oh, yes. Unfortunately Snape, Severus Snape on Twitter has literally just become a follower whore. Just putting out stuff that’s very generic and everyone’s going to like, and it loses something after a certain point. I’ve even seen some ads.
Kat: Yeah, the Lord Voldemort account does that too, which sucks.
Noah: When you have millions upon millions of…
Kat: Yeah, whatever.
Noah: We’re all going to sell out eventually.
Tyler: I feel like Hermione would probably use her Facebook as a platform for…
Noah: Study?
Tyler: … house-elf rights.
Kat: Definitely!
Tyler: Yeah.
Kat: She’s the J.K. Rowling of the bunch, right?
Noah and Tyler: Yup.
Kat: The one who tweets once a year. Although, Jo has been tweeting a lot more and, I have to say, I really appreciate it.
Rosie: I think she must have just been control of her Twitter account. I think someone must have been running it for her before now, and now she can do it herself so she’s been using it more.
Kat: I know! It’s so exciting!
Noah: Well, when she did the pen and paper business for like… she tweeted that probably 17 times.
Kat: I think it was three, but yeah.
Noah: Right, 17 times within an hour. It was weird. Something is wrong there.
[Kat and Tyler laugh]
Kat: Anyway, that’s the end of our discussion from last week, but obviously, as always, the conversation does continue on our main site at alohomora.mugglenet.com and on the forums. There’s a little link to the forums on there. So there’s no lack of people discussing our episodes, so definitely go join the conversation.
Rosie: And our final bit of episode recap from last week is, as always, the Podcast Question of the Week. And last week it was this: “In this chapter, after multiple revelations, Aunt Petunia and Harry share a meaningful moment as the only two in the room who fully understand the consequences of Voldemort’s return.” Wow guys, that’s a run on sentence.
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Rosie: “Following this, Aunt Petunia asserts that Harry must remain at Number Four Privet Drive. Is her motivation behind this simply due to Dumbledore’s orders? Does she actually have Harry’s best interests at heart? Or are there perhaps other motivations that factor into her decision to protect Harry knowing that doing so puts her family’s safety in jeopardy?” And as usual, you guys had some brilliant discussion points about this. Most of you were actually sticking up for Petunia, which was quite nice to see. We’re not all thinking that the Dursleys are the worst human beings on earth, as we might have said previously for a few chapters. But to start off, we’ll go with surprisinglyswishy, which is a brilliant username.
Kat: Mhm.
[Noah makes swishing noise]
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: And they say,
“I think Petunia’s actions here were done out of love for her sister. Didn’t Dumbledore explain to her that the protection spell on the house was the result of Lily’s sacrifice? We know they weren’t on the best of terms when Lily died, but they were still sisters and I think being reminded of her sister’s sacrifice would be enough to keep Harry at the house, even if it wasn’t enough to make her treat Harry with much kindness. I wouldn’t say Petunia loves Harry as his own person, the books make that much apparent – but I think she does love him as her sister’s son, if that makes any sense. It’s like earlier in the chapter, when Petunia seems to fear for Harry when he tells her that Voldemort is back and Harry ‘fully appreciated that Aunt Petunia was his mother’s sister’ (US edition 38).”
Noah: Wait, wait, everyone. I have just had a theory that just sprung up into my consciousness as you were reading that comment, Rosie. Can I say it?
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: Go ahead.
Noah: What if Lily’s love in the blood is somehow strengthened in the Dursley home because it’s in Petunia’s blood, too, kind of?
Rosie: Noah, that’s the entire point of the whole thing.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: That’s why he has to stay at that house, remember?
Noah: Whoa. I never knew that.
Kat: Or did you just forget that you knew that?
Noah: Maybe I just… no, no, I never knew that one.
Rosie: Why did you think he has to stay at her house?
[Noah laughs]
Rosie: He has to go back there every year!
Noah: [laughs] I thought he just had to. I didn’t realize why. Oh, man. Okay, I got it.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Okay, you’re fired from Alohomora!
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Noah: No! No, you can’t fire me!
Kat: You don’t get the basic concepts behind Harry Potter?
Noah: I just… now I do.
Kat: Oh, now you do. Okay.
Rosie: Well, at least we’re improving your experience of the books. [laughs] But anyway, yes, I agree. I think that yeah, it would be to do with Lily’s sacrifice. She was her sister; there is that love there. I do think that you would feel some love for a nephew even if you don’t treat him very well. There’s something there.
Kat: I don’t know if I would call it love. I think I would call it…
Rosie: Obligation? [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, indifference and obligation toward Harry. Probably love and something…
Noah: There is a little bit. A little bit of love.
Kat: … not for Harry. For Lily, for sure. I don’t think she feels any love for Harry. I think maybe toward the end she appreciates him a little bit more because he’s like, “Listen, you can’t stay here. Voldemort is going to basically come and kill you so you need to leave.” I think she appreciates him in the end. I’m not sure she ever loves him.
Noah: I just wonder about that line there between appreciation and minuscule love.
Kat: I think there’s a big difference.
Rosie: Honeydukes Empire says that,
“She’s behaving in a manner similar to Snape. While Snape passed his hatred of James onto Harry, Petunia passed her jealousy of Lily onto Harry. She was repulsed that she had to care for a baby that belonged to a person she wanted nothing to do with. I would say she kept Harry in the home as a favor to Lily, but if she really wanted to do a favor to Lily, she wouldn’t have treated her son the way she did.”
So this is saying along the same things but in a very more negative way at Petunia.
Kat: I don’t think she was repulsed that she had to care for a baby…
Rosie: No. [laughs]
Kat: … obviously she still is a mother and she still realized that this is a baby; he is helpless, and even though maybe this is the last thing in the world that she wanted, she did take care of him and she did raise him, albeit not well. I mean, but obviously Harry is a decent kid because of that…
Noah: Right.
Kat: … so it all works out in the end.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: I don’t know. It’s my opinion.
Tyler: She tolerates him with all her heart.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Yeah! Exactly.
Noah: That’s a great way to put it.
Kat: It is. It’s a perfect way.
Rosie: Raven suggests that,
“Well, after Harry leaves the Dursleys’ home for good in DH the Dursleys have to go into hiding. So I think that, in the letter, Dumbledore might have insinuated to Petunia that the Dursleys could possibly be a target of Voldermort’s because of their connection to Lily and James and that by letting Harry live with them they were keeping him safe as well as themselves.”
Yeah, so is it a more selfish reason that they kept Harry around?
Tyler: Well, they’re pretty uninformed about the magical world. I mean, they didn’t even know about Dementors or that Lord Voldemort was back or anything. I don’t know if they’d keep him for protection…
Rosie: Petunia does know about Dementors. She knows that they are guarding the wizard prison.
Tyler: She does. But she’s the only one who has this information. I think they’re pretty happy pretending that all of this doesn’t exist.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: I always got the impression that whatever letter Dumbledore left with Harry, Petunia read it and refused to show Vernon because, basically, he would flip out. And so: selfish? I don’t know. I would like to read that letter. That would be a good…
Tyler: Mhm.
Kat: Jo, you should release that on Pottermore. That’s the type of stuff she should release on Pottermore.
Noah: And then maybe people would go on Pottermore more. If there was better stuff.
Kat: We have had this discussion. I love Pottermore, so let’s not go there.
Tyler: Same!
Kat: Thank you, man. High five through the mic.
Tyler: High five. I’m loving these Quidditch updates. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, they’re pretty awesome. So…
Tyler: I would also like to see that letter. I wonder what Petunia told Vernon the next morning.
Kat: Right.
Tyler: I mean, she could have chucked the letter and just said, “Oh my gosh, there’s a baby on our porch.”
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Yeah, because how much does…?
Rosie: He must have known something about it.
Kat: I mean, maybe just: “This is Lily’s son. We have to raise him now. An orphanage left him.” Maybe she totally lied to the guy. I don’t know.
Rosie: I don’t get the impression that he believes that they were killed in a car crash then. He knows that they got themselves blown up so to speak.
Kat: Hmm, that’s true. That’s true.
Tyler: Mhm.
Kat: I forgot about that.
Rosie: So he must know something about the evilness that went on.
Kat: Yeah, but his mind is so small he doesn’t get it no matter what.
Noah: He’s a terrible person.
Kat: I mean, basically. [laughs]
Rosie: Okay, our final comment on this topic – although there are many more good points over on Alohomora! if you want to go and check them out – is from HedwigsTheme, believe it or not, and it says,
“I think that Aunt Petunia took pleasure in receiving special instructions from a wizard, nonetheless from Albus Dumbledore himself. She was desperate to get into Hogwarts as a young girl, and that attraction towards magic, something that she has been denied her whole life, has not disappeared even after all these years. She allowed Harry to stay because someone from this exclusive world from which she has been denied suddenly needed her. She felt special for once and probably would have done almost anything asked of her in that moment.”
Noah: Oh, that’s a great comment.
Kat: Gold star.
Rosie: A very different viewpoint.
Noah: Oh, that’s so good. That’s it.
Kat: Gold star. That is brilliant. I love that. That’s it! That’s it.
Noah: Yeah. There’s nothing more to be said.
Kat: Yeah, that’s very succinct. Very good. Claps for HedwigsTheme. [claps]
[Noah hums “Hedwig’s Theme”]
Kat: Maybe that’s John Williams. Maybe he listens to the show.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: I don’t know. I’m just saying.
Noah: Wow. He’d be…
Kat: High hopes, man. High hopes.
Noah: He’d be a great guest.
Kat: Yeah, good luck.
Noah: [laughs] Is it time?
Kat: It’s time.
[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3 intro begins]
[Sound of muttering]
Mad-Eye Moody: Be quiet, all of you!
Lupin: Chapter 3.
[Sound of plate shattering]
Mad-Eye Moody: Tonks!
Lupin: “The Advance Guard.”
Tonks: Oops!
[Sound of shushing]
[Order of the Phoenix Chapter 3 intro ends]
Noah: And now we start the chapter discussion, everyone, and I am very excited to do this because this is a great chapter for me. I love it; introducing me to some of my favorite characters from the series, once again. It’s been a while since I’ve picked up Book 5 so it was good to do that. I don’t think I’ve said it on the show… I probably have at some point. Book 5 is my favorite book. I share that with Kat.
Tyler: Same.
Kat: Oh yeah, we have bonded over that. [gasps] And Tyler? Yes!
Tyler: Yeah. Mhm.
Kat: We bonded over that.
Noah: I think this book is definitely the meatiest but there’s so much good stuff in it. It’s great in terms of character development for Harry.
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: She puts us inside his consciousness so many times and… just in this one chapter, I’m going to talk about it a lot, but throughout the book he flips between emotions because he’s manic. He’s manic in this entire book. Voldemort’s return…
Kat: He’s emo. Yeah, totally.
Noah: He’s emo, but he’s not sad emo. He is off the walls and…
Kat: Oh yeah, he’s cray cray.
Noah: And I had a realization while reading the first couple of chapters that I am sassy Harry. I am this character.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: You wish. You wish.
Noah: No, I mean, not completely; I don’t have to save the world or anything but my emotions flip flop as much as… and in some cases as much as violently as his.
Kat: You should see somebody about that. [laughs]
Noah: Maybe. But I’m getting by.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Noah: Getting by day by day… anyway, sorry. Back to the chapter. So it opens with Harry crazily scribbling a note, “I’ve just been attacked by Dementors and I might be expelled from Hogwarts. I want to know what’s going on and when I’m going to get out of here.” And he writes this to Sirius, Ron, and Hermione. And just this whole time he’s talking about how his head’s hurting still, he’s really upset, he’s got all this pain, and he’s just complaining. It’s sheer complaints about…
Kat: No way, that is a totally valid thing for him to do.
Rosie: He has a lot to complain about.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: Dudley had hit him and head was throbbing, and he was carrying Dudley so his shoulders are hurting. He just beat off these Dementors.
Kat: And these are his thoughts – don’t forget, Noah – so he’s not screaming and bitching about it; he’s internalizing, thinking… so you have to remember that, too.
Noah: He’s still inwardly complaining and as a reader I’m a little put off by it… he should just sort of step up.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Wait, wait. Okay, you just said two minutes ago that you’re sassy Harry, so by saying that you’re put off by his complaining then you’re put off by your own complaining?
Noah: Well, what I’m saying is when I get into this way I’m looking at myself, the way I used to be, and I’m like, “Pick yourself up, buddy,” because that’s my new attitude.
Kat: Oh, okay. Well, then fine.
Noah: Yeah, you see? That’s good. So yeah, he’s writing these letters and he wishes he could do more magic, but he knows that he can’t do anymore magic because he’s gotten all those letters about it.
Kat: I like that he kicks the trunk and then is like, “Damn it, now my toe hurts.”
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Yeah, it’s pretty bad.
Kat: So funny.
Tyler: I feel you.
Kat: Yeah, it’s so funny.
Noah: And I think there’s something to the fact… I was thinking about it. He just released magic, he got his Patronus out, and that must feel really good: To not be able to use magic for a long time and then to finally do it. There’s got to be relief there and I wonder if because he’s opened the Pandora’s Box of magic spurts…
Kat: The Dumbledoor.
Noah: The Dumble… well, does he want to do magic a little bit more because he feels so tempted?
Rosie: I think he probably thinks, “What’s there to lose now?” But I don’t think he’s necessarily relieved to use magic. It’s not pent-up. It’s just he hasn’t been able to do anything for a while.
Noah: You see, I see it as pent-up, and that probably speaks to what I’m going to talk about a little later, but…
Rosie: Yup. I thought so. [laughs]
Noah: [laughs] So Harry is scribbling these letters and he is waiting for Hedwig to get back from hunting and she’s not there. He’s very upset. Then she comes back and he says, “I’ve got work for you!” [laughs] “Hedwig’s large round amber eyes gazed reproachfully at him over the dead frog clamped in her beak. ‘Come here,’ said Harry, picking up the three small rolls of parchment and a leather thong and tying the scrolls to her scaly leg. ‘Take these straight to Sirius, Ron, and Hermione and don’t come back here without good long replies. Keep pecking them till they’ve written decent-length answers if you’ve got to. Understand?'”
Rosie: That’s just mean.
Tyler: Oof.
Noah: “Hedwig gave a muffled hooting noise, beak still full of frog. ‘Get going, then,’ said Harry. She took off immediately…” and then Harry almost immediately is guilty for doing that to Hedwig. But I’m going to do a little analytical work and put my feminist hat on and…
Kat: Wow, big surprise!
Noah: Yeah. So if we read Hedwig as a woman, is Harry creating this office secretary-type situation with Hedwig and indulging in patriarchy a little bit? Just getting angry and telling the woman to “Go do this work for me, go out, and get it done”?
Rosie: No, he wants to send letters. The wizarding world sends letters via owls. Hedwig is an owl…
Noah: Yes, I know, Rosie…
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Noah: … but I’m talking about his treatment of Hedwig.
Rosie: No, he’s just frustrated and angry by everything that’s happening. He wants to know the answers. We’ve seen him… he’s been frustrated, he’s listened to the news… again, what normal boy listens to the news? Et cetera. He wants this information, and he feels like the attack happened because he didn’t know what was going on. So there’s all this frustration, which is coming out in the only way he knows how to express it because Hedwig is the only one he can talk to at this moment.
Noah: Yeah. Right, but you’re not wrong, Rosie, but the thing is, we know that animals in the magical universe have this human element to them. They’re so expressive, especially Hedwig. She has in some ways very almost feminine attributes. She nips Harry occasionally when something is not right. They have a dynamic relationship so could it possibly be read this way…
Rosie: And here she does exactly what he says straight away. She flies off and later we find out that she has literally been pecking at Ron and Hermione to try to get them to write these letters because he asked for long replies. So she feels his anxiety straight away and she tries to relieve it by doing exactly what he says. I don’t think it’s a female thing. I think it’s just a trying to help your friend thing.
Noah: Well, then as a feminist, with my feminist hat still on, I have a problem with Hedwig for just doing exactly what Harry says.
Rosie: If it was a male owl, it would do the same thing. It’s just… that’s what you would do for your friend.
Noah: Tyler? Kat? Tyler and Kat, any thoughts to weigh in?
Tyler: I mean, I have to say I agree with Rosie. I mean, Hedwig…
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Tyler: … I see where you’re coming from, Noah, I do. But I think bottom line is Hedwig is an owl and this is what she’s trained to do.
Noah: All right.
Kat: Yup. Nail on the head.
Noah: [laughs] Kat?
Kat: Sorry, buddy, I’m with them. Sorry.
Noah: [laughs] Okay. This is… I think this should be the… for each point we can do this, or I sense it could work out this way.
Rosie: Ding, ding. Round one for Rosie.
Noah: Round one for Rosie.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Noah: Okay. I’ll take my hat off.
Tyler: That’s interesting. Interesting points.
Noah: So… right. So Harry feels immediately guilty. And of course this speaks to his manic-depressive phase of really emotional and then this happens and he changes constantly between highs and lows. And then Hedwig does not come back for four days and he just sits in a haze, looking up at his ceiling, on the bed. It’s really just completely thoughtless. It’s very depressive and I have actually had some moments like these…
Rosie: I bet he never thought that he’d be wishing for Dobby to appear.
Noah: Right, even Dobby at this point would be a saving grace for him. And I just want to point a little bit about the language and Jo’s use of language. As a writer, I’m very interested and it’s just great. Just the phrases like, “aching with dread,” “a lethargy so complete,” “furious at the whole of them…” just stuff like that. The expressions… she is able to capture Harry’s feelings by describing them with such beautiful language. As that’s all happening, Vernon comes in – or four days later – just basically to tell Harry that he’s locking him up in the room. He’s not to come outside because the other Dursleys are leaving. They’ve been invited to this… I believe it’s a lawn expo.
[Tyler Laughs]
Noah: And he’s just terrible here because basically his whole point of coming in is to say, “You can’t do this, this, and that and I am holding it over you.”ù And he gets upset when Harry isn’t upset about it, upset that he can’t watch the TV and steal food from the fridge.
Tyler: Interesting phrasing, “Steal food from the fridge.”ù They definitely do not treat Harry as a member of their family.
Kat: No.
Rosie: Yeah, definitely.
Tyler: Or even as a guest.
Noah: And maybe this speaks to what were saying about Petunia a little bit because if she had an ounce of love, maybe she wouldn’t have let this be this way.
Tyler: Hmm.
Noah: But Vernon, still, is more horrible in my opinion because he is now trying to literally feed off of Harry’s emotions right now and anger and stuff. So he’s a nasty fellow.
Rosie: I think they just don’t trust him in any way and they’re quite afraid of him at this point. So they’re setting rules and want to know that they’re going to be enforced whether they’re there or not. So this is more of a warning than a gloating. I don’t think he’s lauding it over him at all. I think he’s just saying this is what’s going to happen and you will obey.
Noah: Well, here’s the exact text that makes me think that Vernon sucks. “Uncle Vernon glared at Harry clearly suspicious at this lack of argument and then stomped out of the room and closed the door behind him.”
Tyler: Well, I think it’s just because Harry would normally argue.
Rosie: Yeah, it’s worried that there’s not been the response rather than saying I’m better than you. [laughs]
Noah: Maybe there is an ounce of fear. Right. I hear that and that explains the way he acts, but I still think Vernon derives a sense of pleasure from doing this to him.
Kat: Of course he does. I mean…
Tyler: Sure.
Kat: … he’s a child…
Noah: Yeah.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: … in a very large man’s suit.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: I guess it just struck me harder in this section because Harry was so depressed at the time. So it was really bad.
Rosie: I’m confused as to where we are getting the idea of pleasure from of glaring and stomping out of a room. [laughs]
Noah: Hmm.
Rosie: I don’t see it in that description. Maybe it’s just me. I don’t know.
Noah: Oh wait, “Uncle Vernon was wearing his best suit in an expression of enormous smugness,”ù at the top of page 45.
Rosie: Because he’s won the garden competition.
Noah: Are you sure?
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah, that’s what the look of smugness is, but he’s still… has no problem whatsoever locking Harry in a room.
Noah: I interpreted the smugness as not the winning, but the having this with Harry.
Kat: No.
Rosie: No, it’s to do with the competition.
Kat: I would say so too.
Noah: Oh.
Kat: Although, I do think he does thoroughly enjoys locking Harry into rooms, obviously.
Noah: Okay.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: So you get a half a point from me.
Noah: Interesting, okay. Half-point. [laughs] We’ll split that one.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: So they leave and Harry lays there “in a kind of stupor, thinking of nothing, suspended in misery.” Again, thank you, Jo, for doing this. And she’s definitely pulling off of feelings she’s had before, you can tell. And then, he hears a noise in the kitchen or a noise downstairs and he immediately thinks, “Burglars!'”
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Yeah, but why is it the first thing he thinks? I don’t know, that’s just funny.
Tyler: It’s so silly.
Noah: I don’t know.
Rosie: What else are you going to think if you know that you’re alone in a house and suddenly you hear noises downstairs?
Tyler: Well, like house-elves or Dementors or…
Rosie: True. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, something magical. Yeah.
Tyler: … or something magical.
Noah: Right.
Rosie: But he’s within the Muggle world still.
Noah: But he was just saying…
Rosie: He still doesn’t really expect magical things to happen there.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: But he was just attacked by Dementors, so…
Noah: At the end of the last chapter, there was this great line about how the magical and Muggle worlds fused for him. His two lives met.
Kat: Right, right.
Noah: So he should have. Could have been like Death Eaters or something instead. But anyway, his…
Kat: Oh, gee.
Noah: … door swings open, nobody comes inside because it’s magic. Why would anybody?
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Creepy!
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: So creepy.
Tyler: [laughs] It’s so creepy. [laughs]
Noah: Which is different in the movie when it’s…
Kat: Eh.
Noah: … Nymphadora. Anyway…
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: Harry walks out blatantly disobeying Vernon’s orders. And he sees some people down the stairs. Well, first he raises his wand and hears, “‘Lower your wand boy before you take someone’s eye out,’ said a low, growly voice.”. Of course, we know that happens to be Moody and that’s a clever joke, do you guys know why?
Rosie: I never got that joke before! [laughs]
Noah: Did you guys get that joke?
Tyler: Oh my God!
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Rosie: Thank you, Noah. That’s a good one.
Tyler: Neither have I. [laughs]
Kat: That’s pretty funny, actually.
Noah: He’s a funny guy. Moody is a very funny guy.
Kat: Look at you! You got that joke, but you didn’t understand about the blood protection.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: Good for you man, good for you.
Noah: Okay, I pick up on different stuff. Can I get a point for that one?
Kat: Yes.
Rosie: You get a point for that one.
Noah: Yay!
Kat: You get a point for that.
Noah: There should be a running thing, I like this.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: That’s a good joke.
Noah: So Moody is growling, Harry lowers his wand. “‘It’s all right Harry, we’ve come to take you away.’ Harry’s heart leapt. He knew that voice too, though he hadn’t heard it for more than a year.”ù Because part of the group that Harry sees, Professor Lupin is there. And then he says…
Rosie: Aww, Lupin!
Noah: “P-Professor Lupin, is that you?” [laughs] And it’s..
Kat: Michael is clapping at home as he is listening to this right now.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: And this is such a… and Harry’s heart leapt, which is such a… that expression is totally up emotionally as opposed to where he was down. So he…
Kat: It is. It’s just so cute! I think it’s so cute.
Noah: It’s amazing cute.
Kat: How often does your heart leap when you think of or like see somebody? That rarely happens to me.
Noah: Harry’s heart only leaps for a couple of people.
Kat: For Lupin, yup.
Noah: A handful of people and Lupin is the man.
Kat: Which I think is awesome. It’s just so cute. It’s endearing.
Rosie: Mhm.
Noah: Yeah. Meanwhile, someone else says, [in a high pitched voice] “Why are we all standing in the dark?” [back to normal voice] That’s a terrible voice. That’s a terrible voice for it, but…
Kat: Yeah, that was really bad.
Noah: “‘Why are we all standing in the dark?’ This one completely unfamiliar, a woman’s. ‘Lumos.’ A wand tip flared.” And we get our first look at Nymphadora Tonks…
Rosie: Yes.
Noah: … who is awesome. When I was first reading this book and I read the description of her, it caught my attention. I was… I think I was probably about sixteen and she seemed really fascinating to me.
[Kat purrs]
Noah: Yes. So she says, “Oh, he looks just like I thought he would,” talking about… this is Tonks to Harry. This is the description, the first line: “She looked the youngest there. She had a pale, heart-shaped face, dark twinkling eyes, and short, spiky hair that was a violent shade of violet.” And I think, just in that one line there [are] so many different phrases and interesting words that I think a lot of other…
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: I mean, Jo is great with all of her descriptions, but all these words are what gets to me. I would love to date Tonks. Or… and I’m sure…
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Well, those… it’s… you can pull certain things just from the discussion. So generally heart… people with heart-shaped faces are looked upon as kind.
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: Mhm.
Kat: And then the twinkling eyes, that…
Rosie: Cheekiness.
Kat: Yeah. Cheeky or mysterious.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Whatever. And then the short, spiky hair is like rebellion.
Noah: Rebellious!
Kat: Yeah. So you immediately form your opinion of her just by a short, one-line description.
Rosie: Mhm.
Noah: Yeah, so she is like… this is what I’m looking for.
Kat: Listeners, take note.
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Noah: She’s exactly who I’m looking for. I’m at… yeah. It’s just…
Kat: You can find Noah at LeakyCon this summer.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Kat: So just come dressed as Tonks and you’re in.
Noah: Yeah. Basically.
Rosie: See, I really love Natalia Tena as an actor. I love her in About a Boy.
Kat: Oh, I love her.
Rosie: I love her in Game of Thrones. She’s amazing. I hate her as Tonks.
Kat: Wow.
Noah: I don’t know how I feel about that. Why do you feel that way?
Rosie: I’m really sorry, but Tonks is meant to be full of energy and she’s meant to be cheeky and rebellious and all of these kind of things. And just Tonks in the movies is so serious! The only time that we actually see her being cheeky and having fun is when she’s doing… putting the noses, changing faces, in that scene.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: But is that Nat’s fault? Or is that a script thing, though?
Rosie: I think it’s a bit of both! Because I don’t… you can be energetic even if you don’t have any lines. You can move in that way.
Kat: Kind of like Tennant with the tongue thing, yeah.
Noah: I thought in Movie 5, the “Don’t call me Nymphadora,” that was pretty spot-on.
Rosie: You’ve got one moment of seething anger, that’s not quite the same as having frenetic energy as your entire person. I don’t know.
Noah: All right, I’d agree. Then there was the hair. The hair was down as opposed to spiky.
Rosie: Yeah, it’s not short and spiky. Yeah, it’s not quite…
Kat: That wasn’t her fault, though.
Rosie: No. That’s other things, but…
Noah: No, that was a creative decision.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: I just think it could have been a fresher kind of character and it was just a bit too subdued for me.
Kat: You’re going to get hate mail for that.
Rosie: Probably, but bring it on. [laughs]
Kat: Oh! Challenge! I like it, I like it.
Noah: There we go. Well…
Rosie: Tonks is one of my favorite characters from this book and I just… I don’t think she is done justice in the movies and I think that’s why the Lupin and Tonks relationship doesn’t work quite as well in the movies as it does in the books.
Kat: Oh, it doesn’t work at all in the movies.
Rosie: No.
Kat: That’s a whole other topic.
Rosie: Yeah. [laughs]
Noah: Yeah, I mean, I really think she’s great. I wonder what sort of feminine tropes that she belongs to. I don’t think she can quite fit in any one category. She’s not like Molly Weasley, mother bear, or Bellatrix Lestrange, clear anti-mother.
Rosie: I think she’s a slightly more grown-up version of the manic pixie dream girl thing that John Green writes about all the time and all of those young characters who are that kind-of rebellious thing that boys are meant to fall in love with in those kind of books. And I guess it’s a slightly more mature version of that, with a bit more angsty rebellion.
Noah: Edge and experience.
Rosie: Yeah. She is more rocker than just emo.
Noah: Yeah.
Tyler: And with spiky purple hair.
Rosie: Yeah.
Tyler: I mean, we haven’t met a character until now who is like this in the Harry Potter books. So there’s definitely something very fascinating about her.
Rosie: Mhm.
Noah: This thought just came to me, and it might not be neither here nor there, but this does remind me. She is this… that punk woman movement is also related to Second Wave, I think, Feminism, and this idea of going against the long hair, the dresses type-thing. So is this… is she an argument for feminism or some sort of presence of feminism within the text?
Kat: Well, this is what year?
Tyler: 1995?
Kat: Is it ’95?
Noah: Let me check the front of my book.
Kat: Wait, no, Noah. The book has nothing… I meant the year in the book. It might be ’95 at this point.
Noah: Oh. Oh yeah, it’s got to be. Yes.
Kat: ’95.
Noah: Was it ’94?
Kat: So I mean… I don’t know.
Noah: I think it’s ’94.
Kat: No, because…
Rosie: ’94 in England is going to be big wool and baggy jumpers and things. [laughs]
Noah: This is summer.
Kat: Right, that’s true.
Noah: I think it’s going to become ’95, after.
Rosie: Yeah, but there’s still an element of the rocker movement in there. We’ve had punk, we’ve had all of that stuff happening. So I think she’s a remnant of that. And she’s definitely one of the strong, young rebellion characters that we meet in a way that is very much a young woman in a man’s world. She’s not going to be like Mrs. Weasley, she’s not going to be like Narcissa. Very strong female characters, but in a very different way. She’s the woman in the man’s job. She’s the Auror.
Noah: Yeah, yeah.
Rosie: She’s the one will go out and fight fires, that kind of thing.
Noah: That’s a whole other thing, but she’s…
Rosie: Yeah. She is a very feminist character, yeah.
Noah: And she’s not against mothers either. I think she likes the idea of motherhood because there’s a line that comes up later…
Rosie: Mhm.
Noah: … where she talks about how her mom can fold the socks in such a nice way. She can never get the hang of it, but she almost has this great… she thinks it’s endearing, the motherhood and being able to do the…
Rosie: Yeah.
Tyler: Mhm.
Noah: … niceties too.
Rosie: She can embrace the femininity. Her hair is purple or then, bright pink. She uses these things as assets rather than detractions…
Noah: Right.
Rosie: … from her being a strong person.
Noah: Yeah, so she’s perfect, she’s perfect for me.
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Tyler: She just rocks.
Noah: So then, Moody takes it upon himself to ask, “Is this the real Harry?”ù Because remember, he’s been locked up in a box. He’s never actually met Harry before. Harry hasn’t met the real Moody. And he asks Lupin to test him and Lupin asks Harry, “What form does your Patronus take?” And Harry says, “‘A stag,’ nervously. ‘That’s him, Mad-Eye,’ said Lupin.” And it’s just this, again, a very cute moment between them because Lupin could have asked him, “What did we study in class?” “Grindylows, grindylows!” But no. He’s going to go with “What was the moment we shared that was most significant to our lives?
Tyler: I love this moment, but I’m not entirely sure that… I don’t know. It strikes me as odd that this is the question that identifies him. I mean, Barty Jr. had to have Moody completely down, pretty much every mannerism, every…
Kat: Every everything. I get it.
Tyler: Every everything, exactly. And I guess… well, whatever shape a Patronus takes isn’t as widely known as I thought, I don’t know.
Rosie: I think at this point, I mean, when we see Harry take his OWLs at the end of the year, everyone is shocked and surprised when he can perform the Patronus. So it is still a very powerful thing…
Tyler: Sure.
Rosie: … at this point. We’ve blown it out of proportion within the fandom…
Tyler: Right.
Rosie: … because it’s, obviously, that symbol that everyone knows, but within the canon at this moment it’s a lot less memorable…
Noah: Yeah, you’re absolutely right.
Rosie: … and a lot more personal for Harry and Lupin.
Tyler: Absolutely.
Noah: So that happens and Harry is brought into the fold. Mad-Eye suggests that Harry, “Don’t put your wand in your back pocket. You could blow a buttock off.”
[Kat laughs]
Noah: Which is ridiculous. I don’t think there’s any precedent for this happening.
Kat: No, I don’t think so either. It’s really funny.
Noah: But Tonks jumps in, “‘Who do you know who’s lost a buttock?'”
Rosie: Which is so cheeky.
Noah: It’s really cheeky and it’s really interesting.
Tyler: Cheeky.
Noah: I’m, like, that’s really awesome for me to read.
Kat: And she even asked it interestedly.
Noah: She asked it interestedly, exactly. How many women are interested in…
Kat: I mean, I would be curious to know that, but…
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: You are my wife, after all.
Kat: That’s right.
Noah: Yeah.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Look at you, you pulled the joke out! Good for you.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Kat: There’s a long story behind that, for the listeners, just so you know.
Noah: That should get into special content for the app.
Kat: Yeah, it could be, but it’s not quite appropriate.
Noah: So Harry… wow, so that… we’re just going to let that hang.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: We’re not going to go into detail about that.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: So Harry joins the crowd. He comes down the steps and sees everyone there. And I had this weird Jezel and disciple moment. It seems to be…
Kat: Wait, wait! [laughs]
Rosie: Jezel?
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: [laughs] Jezel?
Noah: Especially when Kingsley bows to Harry, which is weird because who bows anymore? Even in ’94, ’95.
Rosie: Jezel, apparently.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: Yeah.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: So funny! [laughs]
Noah: And I also thought that… I like the bowing. I want to start bowing for more people. It’s really nice. It’s really cool.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: And Harry becomes really frustrated and annoyed that these people are staring at him.
Rosie: Noah, I want you to bow at everyone you meet at LeakyCon now.
Noah: Okay.
Rosie: No handshakes, bows.
Kat: That’s right, you’re going to bow to everybody.
Noah: If you’re dressed as Nymphadora Tonks and you come to our table…
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: … I will gladly bow down to you.
Kat: Wow.
Noah: That is a promise.
Kat: I’m going to remember that.
Noah: Yeah. And you know, if we really hit it off… [laughs]
Kat: All right, this is Episode 80, I’m going to play this for you…
Noah: Okay. [laughs]
Kat: … come LeakyCon in three months.
Rosie: I love that Kingsley bows, though.
Noah: Is it his culture?
Rosie: His characterization in the movie is awesome.
Noah: Yes, it’s perfect.
Kat: Yeah, dead on. He’s amazing.
Rosie: “‘Dumbledore’s got style.'” That line is brilliant.
Noah: Oh, sorry. “You may not like him, Minister, but can’t deny… “
Noah and Rosie: “Dumbledore’s got style.”
Kat: You know what’s really sad about that? This is slightly off tangent, but George Harris is going blind. So he can barely see. It’s sad.
Noah: Is that the Kingsley?
Kat: Yeah, because even when I met him – oh my Lord – two years ago now, he was already almost blind.
Noah: I’m going to say something slightly controversial now.
Kat: Thanks for the preface.
Rosie: Okay. [laughs]
Noah: We can… it’s really a bad trope, but the Magic Negro trope. Which is this idea that sometimes there are black people, African Americans, in film, books, TV, and they don’t occupy serious roles. They’re just there to provide the white protagonist with something.
Rosie: That’s tokenism…
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: So I’m wondering, do we feel like in the movies or in the books or either one, that Kingsley Shacklebolt… I feel like in the books he’s much more fleshed out because he takes up the role at the Ministry, but in the movie is his character pushed to more of this end?
Kat: I think he is the epitomization of the character that he is in the books.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Because he is literally described specifically… and George Harris in the films looks exactly like that. There are plenty of other black wizards, so I don’t think that it’s a Kingsley thing. I think it’s just… what’s the ratio of black and white in London? I don’t know. If this were in the US, maybe there would be more.
Noah: What about Hogwarts?
Kat: That’s what I’m saying, and I don’t know what the population percentages are in the UK. And like I said, in the US the percentages are much different, I would imagine…
Rosie: Yeah, I wouldn’t really know how to comment, but it’s very mixed. I wouldn’t say that we’re a pure white country, hopefully. But I think there’s more tokenism within the movie in some of the students than the adults. I’m very glad that they did include Kingsley’s character because they could have easily cut him out.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: I don’t know, I don’t get that feeling from it at all. Because it’s not like there’s only one… okay, okay, I lied. The only one that I think is very token is the kid that they added in the third film.
Rosie: Yeah, that’s the one I was thinking of.
Kat: That’s the only one that I think is like…
Noah: Yeah, that kid! In Divination.
Rosie: The Divination scene.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: Because that wasn’t… those lines belong to a different character. They obviously added that one in.
Noah: Oh, Alfonso… oh, Alfonso!
Kat: Right, because…
Rosie: We’ve got the Quidditch players…
Kat: Right.
Rosie: We’ve got lots of other people. It’s not purely white.
Noah: Blaise Zabini, Dean Thomas…
Rosie: Harry Potter should be applauded for that.
Noah: Michael Corner…
Kat: Yeah, Angelina…
Noah: Angelina, Lee Jordan…
Tyler: Lee Jordan…
Noah: That’s everyone, though. [laughs]
Kat: No, I’m sure that’s not everyone.
Noah: So there’s some more people in this gang, this gang of volunteers that find Harry. There’s Elphias Doge, or [pronounced “dodge”] Doge.
Kat: Doge, I think.
Noah: Elphias Doge, Dedalus Diggle, Emmeline Vance, and Sturgis Podmore, and we’ve grabbed some Wiki bios.
Kat: And you forgot Hestia Jones.
Noah: Oh, sorry! I forgot Hestia Jones. She’s there as well. So I’m just going to go briefly through these bios. From what I understand these are not amazingly robust characters, characterizations. I don’t know if they do anything great, but let’s find out. Elphias Doge, born circa 1881. Really?
Kat: Wow.
Noah: He’s really old.
Kat: Well, yeah. He’s Dumbledore’s age, right? So…
Tyler: Oh, Dumbledore…
Noah: I wonder if he’s doing some… if he’s going to report to Dumbledore or something after this. He was a wizard, a Ministry of Magic jurist, a member of the Order of the Phoenix in both the First and Second Wizarding World Wars, and also a close friend of Albus Dumbledore. In the summer of 1995 Doge was part of the Advance Guard in which he met Harry Potter. After Dumbledore’s death in June 1997 – now we are in the future – Mr. Doge wrote him an obituary for the Daily Prophet. Later that same summer he attended the wedding of Fleur and Bill Weasley at the Burrow – he’s going to meet Harry. He managed to Disapparate from there seconds before the attack at the Burrow, and the Death Eaters arrived. So we’ve seen him and we’re going to see him later.
Rosie: He’s the one that tells us his stories about Ariana.
Noah: So he was an old friend of Albus Dumbledore. That’s huge.
Kat and Rosie: Mhm.
Tyler: Mhm.
Noah: And also a jurist, so perhaps he’s there… maybe his being there had something to do with the fact that Harry is kind of struck in a legal situation right now. Maybe if Ministry officials had somehow gotten them, he would have been able to defend Harry as some appointed… as Dumbledore’s appointed lawyer or instead…
Kat: That’s possible. That’s valid. I’ll give you that.
Rosie: But I think most of these people are just members of the Order who volunteered. I don’t think they were necessarily brought in for a specific role.
Noah: Oh, Rosie, I know. Of course. I’m just spinning. I’m just spinning theories.
Rosie: Right.
Kat: I partially agree with that. I think that yes, maybe they volunteered, but I am betting that Dumbledore… when we’re done talking about the other four, I just have a feeling that Dumbledore…
Noah: There was some choice in the matter.
Kat: … dipped his finger into this situation. Yeah.
Noah: Yeah, and people generally don’t say no when he does.
Kat: Right.
Rosie and Tyler: Mhm.
Kat: Right, right.
Tyler: It was either Lupin or Moody who said, “Look at all the people who volunteered to come pick you up.”
Noah: Yeah, and there’s an interesting… do you guys see the line where Lupin’s mouth twitched? The corner of Lupin’s mouth twitched.
Kat: Yup.
Noah: Yeah, I had no idea…
Rosie: In what way? What comes before that?
Kat: It’s because… he says, “‘A surprising number of people volunteered to come and get you,’ said Lupin, as though he had read Harry’s mind; the corners of his mouth twitched slightly.”
Noah: What is that?
Kat: Harry was just thinking about… “He wished they would look at something other than him; it was as though he had suddenly been ushered on stage.”
Noah: No, I know I said the line, but I don’t know… why does his mouth twitch?
Kat: Because…
Rosie: Because it’s like a private joke.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: He is agreeing with Harry’s “Oh no, it’s annoying that they’re here because you’re famous.”
Noah: Oh! Oh, that’s good. I had no idea.
Kat: Are you sure you’ve read these books, Noah?
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: I have, but…
Rosie: I thought you just said this was your favorite book! [laughs]
Noah: It is my favorite book and now it’s even more my favorite book. Dedalus Diggle, who’s just like… it’s so funny to read his name. He’s probably a very funny little man. [Born] 1964; he died in 1997, possibly at the… I guess the war. He’s a member of the Order of the Phoenix; he fought in the First and Second Wizarding Wars against Lord Voldemort and the Death Eaters. He was a member of the Advance Guard in 1995, fought in several battles. He also escorted the Dursleys to a safe place in 1997. So that doesn’t say where he died. Do we know where he died?
Kat: No, I…
Rosie: I think he’s one of the ones we find out about via newspapers, or via the wizarding wireless.
Noah: Okay, so it’s kind of…
Kat: Ambiguous.
Noah: Ambiguous. And wasn’t Dedalus Diggle one of the first wizards that Harry met back in the day?
Kat: Yes. Mhm.
Rosie: Yeah. Well, he’s the one that I think the character on the back of the first print run of the [Philosopher’s Stone] paperback in Britain was based on. The image changed and it became Dumbledore later on, but first of all, it was a brown-haired wizard in a purple coat.
Noah: Right.Rosie: Which, I guess he wouldn’t necessarily be brown-haired when he’s eighty. [laughs] But I always thought of Diggle looking more like that character than… because he’s just a funny little magical wizarding man, rather than a big Merlin-style figure.
Noah: Right. And Vernon runs into him, too, right?
Rosie: Oh, yeah. In the street, yeah. And he says “wonderful day” on that day that… yeah.
Kat: That’s right.
Noah: That’s definitely…
Rosie: Forgot about that one.
Tyler: Doesn’t he bow to Harry at the beginning of a supermarket once?
Noah: Yes. [laughs]
Rosie: Is he just stalking them?
Tyler: More bowing.
Noah: Every time there is more bowing.
Kat: Do we as… are we assuming that this is him every time, or does it say it?
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: I think we know it. I think in the seventh book he says that he had met Harry, and Harry flashes back and remembers or something.
Kat: Oh. All right. Well, who’s next?
Noah: Emmeline Vance, fought in both wars, considered a talented witch… but nothing more about her talents. [laughs] She died in the summer of 1996; was a member of the first and second Order of the Phoenix. She most likely fought in several battles in both wars and was also a member of the Advance Guard. She was killed by Death Eaters in mid-1996. She was considered a talented witch, and her loss was a heavy blow to the Order. So, she was very talented, is what we could say. But what her talents were in? Fighting, I assume.
Rosie: I just want to point out that all of these people would have known James and Lily.
Kat: Right.
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: And they all… here they are stood in Lily’s sister’s house going to save her son.
Noah: Ooo!
Kat: It’s very touching.
Rosie: Mhm.
Noah: And now we have Sturgis Podmore. Sturgis Podmore was a member of the Order of the Phoenix who fought in both the First and Second Wizarding Wars; was also a member of the Advance Guard. In 1995 he was put under the Imperius Curse by Death Eaters who made him attempt to break into the Department of Mysteries. He was sentenced to six months in Azkaban. Whoa! What?
Rosie: He’s the one that’s meant to turn up later on and is late in the second Guard sequence.
Noah: Yeah. But why would he be sentenced to go to Azkaban if he was under the Imperius Curse?
Rosie: Because the Ministry is corrupt and doesn’t realize?
Kat: Right.
Noah: Yeah. Wow, okay.
Rosie: We know the truth.
Noah: Poor dude.
Kat: Again, have you read this book?
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: No, I’ve read the book. I’m just…
Kat: Micah says that he’s read the book too, and…
Rosie: [laughs] We get so much hate mail about Micah not knowing facts.
Kat: I know, we do.
Noah: Well, I think it speaks to more of an ontological issue, just the way I look at things. I look at things in a different way fundamentally than other people.
Rosie: We look at details, you look at “what can I read into this?”
Noah: Yeah. And that’s what makes this hopefully an entertaining show for people, because we hopefully cover everything. Hestia Jones was a member of the Order of the Phoenix during the Second Wizarding War; she was a member of the Advance Guard.
Rosie: So she’s only Second Wizarding War, wasn’t around earlier.
Noah: Right.
Kat: She’s a young ‘un!
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah. So I don’t see a death here, so I assume she goes on to be all right.
Rosie: Hopefully.
Noah: Hopefully, yeah.
Tyler: And we know basically nothing else about her except she finds potato peelers amusing.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Right.
Rosie: So, presumably pureblood.Tyler: Presumably, yeah.
Rosie: If she’s never encountered a potato peeler.
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Right. It’s true.
Noah: Oh, Hestia Jones and her potatoes. Anyway, so Harry is starting to get annoyed at this point because everyone is still staring at him and bowing on and off. There’s a nice moment with “Oh, he looks just like James. Except for his eyes; he has his mother’s eyes.” [laughs] This has now happened about twenty times in the series by this point.
Kat: I mean, it’s glaringly obvious that it’s important, and I guess I never picked up on that the first time reading the books. I was like, “Oh, that’s cute. It’s just a cute little thing. Oh, he has his mother’s eyes.” You know?
Noah: We couldn’t have known exactly that.
Kat: Yeah.
Noah: And Harry is getting annoyed again. His emotions are astir, so he has to go pack his things. So Tonks is like, “Oh, I’ll help you, Harry. Let’s go get your stuff.” [laughs] So she and Harry enter his room, and this – just by virtue of itself – creates a scene that can be read, in my opinion, arguably in a weird sexual way.
Kat: Sexual?
Noah: Yes, I’m just going to come out and say it. This is a sequence… and there’s a lot of fandom fan fiction…
Rosie: All those who want to skip over Noah’s inappropriateness may skip ahead.
Kat: Go ahead.
Noah: There is a lot of fan fiction on the Internet about this very scene, and I don’t think there would be unless there was a little bit of intention on Jo’s part to create this bizarre tension. Because Harry and Tonks, their relationship – the relationship between them is absurd and probably illegal in most places. There is amazing chemistry between the two characters.
[Kat laughs]
Noah This is my running thesis. So here begins Noah’s tangent into Harry Potter’s unconscious. Right. “‘I’ll come and help you.’ said Tonks brightly.” Again, all these extra words next to Tonks’s speech, they imply emotions or feelings that are interesting. So she comes up, noting funny place, “It’s a bit too clean… it’s a bit unnatural,” she added as she enters Harry’s bedroom and he turns on the light. Of course Harry’s room is a mess, so it’s funny because they’re both dirty – they’re both dirty, they’re messy. And they both connect over that a little bit without saying anything, of course. Tonks pauses as Harry is rubbishing, putting his stuff away, not looking at her, “to look at her reflection in the mirror inside the door,” just checking herself out. “‘You know, I don’t think purple’s really my color.’ she said pensively, tugging at a lock of spiky hair. ‘D’you think it makes me look a bit peaky?'”[laughs] She’s immediately asking Harry to judge her appearance and Harry says “Eró”
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Kat: Of course.
Noah: “‘Eró’ said Harry, looking up at her over the top of Quidditch Teams of Britain and Ireland. ‘Yeah, it does,’ said Tonks decisively.” I won’t read too much, but it’s just creating these scenes… they just fall into this very casual tone, or she just takes this casual tone. This is the first girl or woman Harry has ever had in his room, let alone friend, besides Dobby.
Tyler: True.
Kat: Not counting his aunt.
Noah: He’s probably having a lot of emotions here, and then he finds out that Tonks is a Auror. “‘You’re an Auror?’ said Harry, impressed.” [laughs] So she’s instant coolness in his eyes, which is going to stay throughout the books. And then they’re still talking and Tonks is like, “‘Harry, we’re suppose to be packing,’ she added guiltily, looking around at all the mess on the floor. ‘Oh – yeah,’ said Harry, grabbing a few more books.” He’s totally distraught; he has no idea what he’s doing. He’s just totally zoned in on her. She’s the most interesting person he’s ever seen. And then Tonks for whatever reason goes off talking about her mother and how she folds socks very nicely. And it’s kind of nice, because she wishes… I don’t think she wishes she could be more like that; she just admires the fact that her mother is doing that. And as we know, Andromeda Black is a very lovely woman, totally opposite of her sister.
Tyler: Do we think that maybe Tonks asking Harry’s opinion about her hair has anything to do with the fact that Remus is downstairs?
Kat: Yes, actually I do.
Noah: Oh.
Kat: Yes, I do.
Tyler: What does another guy, who is close to Remus think about…
Noah: Oh.
Tyler: … his haircut.
Kat: Boom! He’s blowing holes in your theory, Noah.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: No, no, no. That’s…
Kat: Boom!
[Noah laughs]
Rosie: I could definitely see Harry being awkward about the fact that he’s got a girl in his room for the first time.
Tyler: Sure.
Kat: Yes, I agree.
Noah: I am arguing Harry’s side. I am trying to express what Harry’s feeling. And that’s how we get into this text.
Rosie: Yeah, but I think it’s just relaxed and friendly. I don’t think he’s crushing on her. Because we are privy to his thoughts, we would know if he was crushing on her at this point.
Noah: Okay, moving on. [laughs] “Wow, a Firebolt?” says Tonks when she notices Harry’s broomstick. “Her eyes…”
Kat: Oh my.
Noah: “… widened as they fell on the broomstick in Harry’s right hand. It was his pride and joy, a gift from Sirius, an international standard broomstick. ‘And I’m still riding a Comet Two Sixty,’ said Tonks enviously. ‘Ah well… wand still in your jeans?'”
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Kat: Wait, you have to read the next part.
Noah: No.
[Noah and Tyler laugh]
Kat: “Both buttocks still on?”
Noah: Well, it’s… she’s joking.
Kat: Come on, it’s the best part.
Noah: You have to study literature in college, Kat. When you study literature, you pick up on things and phrases that…
Kat: Yes, I know, you are going to talk about…
Rosie: Noah, she’s…
Kat: … the broomstick and how it’s phallic. Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Rosie: No, he’s talking about the “wand in your jeans,” Kat.
Kat: Oh, got it. You’re gross.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: I’m not gross…
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: I am textual.
Rosie: She is referring to Moody’s earlier joke, that is all.
Noah: Oh, that is all, okay. She – sorry – “Tonks made it hover across the room.” This is Harry’s trunk. Oh, I forgot to mention how she packs all of Harry’s things with one fell swoop of her wand. Again, Harry enforcing patriarchy by making the woman pack all his junk and do all the work.
Rosie: No, he’s just rubbish at it.
Noah: [laughs] Yeah.
Rosie: We’re better off. [laughs]
Noah: So “Tonks made it hover across the room and out the door ahead of them, Hedwig’s cage in her left hand. Harry followed her down the stairs carrying his broomstick.” So I just read in the broom, the fact that Harry’s broom… there’s a bunch of funny ways we can take it that there’s no way to confirm or deny. There’s a lot of… you could say, “Oh, Tonks… maybe Tonks has penis envy, in a way, because she’s admiring Harry’s broomstick.” She’s also an Auror; she has these agressive qualities. You want to make that argument, but that’s probably not the case.
Kat: Yeah. I still… oh my God, you and the wand and the jean joke. I can’t get that’s…
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Okay, I never picked up on that before. That’s kind of funny, actually, Noah.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Kind of funny.
Noah: Do I get a point for it?
Kat: You get half a point. Okay. Sorry.
[Rosie laughs]
Noah: Okay. I’ve lost the tally at this point, but someone should keep track.
Kat: Yeah, somebody out there is paying attention, I’m sure.
Noah: And here’s another one: Harry comes down the stairs, Moody does the disillusion technique, so Harry will appear invisible, and it feels like this great bit of imagery from Jo. An egg is smashed on his head, “and cold trickles seemed to be running down his body from the point the wand had struck” – and now this is another moment – “‘Nice one Mad-eye’ said Tonks appreciatively, staring at Harry’s midriff.”
Tyler: That did stick out at me.
Rosie: Which she can’t see because he’s been disillusioned.
Noah: Right, but there’s still…
Kat: Yeah, but that one you don’t get. Sorry.
Noah: I’m just looking at words “staring at Harry’s midriff appreciatively.”
[Noah, Rosie, and Tyler laugh]
Rosie: Appreciative of the magic, Noah. [laughs]
Noah: Okay.
Kat: Sorry, bud.
Noah: And then Mad-Eye adds, “Tonks will be right in front of you. Keep close on her tail.”
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Tyler: It is a bizarre place for her to be specifically looking.
Rosie: I think it’s because if you can’t see someone, then you’re literally don’t know where to look, so she’s looking at the wrong point because she can’t see him.
Tyler: But wasn’t she just looking at him and knows where his eyeline…
Rosie: Maybe she looked away, and then she looked back. [laughs]
Noah: There’s a…
Rosie: I don’t know.
Noah: Well, here’s how I’d look at it: there’s text, and then there’s subtext. Subtext is this mysterious body that we can talk about, and we can never fully really know, even if the author says, “Oh, I tried that.” I mean, entirely, even weighing in on this as a writer, even if the writer says they intended it then that doesn’t help it either because a lot of writing is an unconscious practice; there’s a muse, and we are channeling that muse, or we’re channeling just consciousness itself, and stuff comes out, and the only way to tap into it is to look at individual words – really study that – and that is […] whence everything I say stirs or comes out of, but it’s true. It’s true, Rosie, that on the level of plot everything you’re saying is correct, and that’s probably the intention, but of course there’s…
Rosie: There’s another “-text” word you need, Noah. There’s “text,” “subtext,” and “context.”
Noah: Context.
Rosie: Context is also very important.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: I would still put “context” with text, though, for me.
Kat: Hmm.
Rosie: It’s the difference between looking at words…
Noah: And sentences.
Rosie: … and looking at a page. Like if you said… the whole “you can breathe things into anything.”Any words can be portrayed in any way you want if you [unintelligible] take them out…
Noah: Right.
Rosie: … and say, “This is red, and this white.”
Noah: But Rosie, if you look at it like that, then it almost makes the entire academic study of literature off its rocker because if anyone can say anything, then why hold on to anything? I think there’s got to be a way that we can… something to hold on to. There’s got to be a truth within it, you know what I mean?
Rosie: There’s… you can look for meaning in things, but you can also create meaning out of nothing, and I think that is the study of literature, is to look at what part of that is important.
Noah: Right.
Rosie: And creating the important links rather than just saying, “Okay, this could be this,” taking a wild flight of fancy.
Kat: Like the gleam of triumph.
[Tyler laughs]
Rosie: Yeah.
Noah: But Kat, the gleam of triumph was completely intentional by Jo, and it’s still on the level of plot. It’s… here’s how I like to look at it: It’s the difference between looking at the words on a page and almost making calculations about which words repeat, or which kinds of phrases repeat, and looking at the sentences and the context. I’m almost – for a lot of my analysis – completely ignoring the context and looking at the…
Rosie: Which is why I often have so [many[ problems with what you’re saying, yes, I agree. [laughs]
Noah: But Rosie, I’m not the only one. I think you and I reflect two completely… two different views of literary theory.
Rosie: Probably, and yeah, they’re both valid ones, but I consider personally that there is more worth in finding relevant information rather than creating it out of my own head.
Noah: Well, the way I like to see it…
[Kat laughs]
Noah: I’m using relevant information, too. We’re still using the books. It’s not like I’m saying that the dolphin Patronus in this chapter is very present.
Rosie: No, yeah.
Kat: I think you should agree to disagree.
Rosie: Yeah.
Kat: As usual.
Rosie: Well, we always do.
Noah: We do.
Rosie: We always enjoy these fights.
Noah: It’s great.
Kat: You do, it’s true. Very much.
Rosie: But I think you can create something that is more inappropriate than the text necessarily asks you to do. And I think he does that very often.
Noah: He does.
Kat: Although the wand and the jeans joke… I’m sorry, that’s still really funny.
Noah: [laughs] Yeah, thank you.
Kat: That’s very good.
Tyler: Not to break up this discussion…
Kat: No, please.
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Sorry, Tyler.
Kat: Tyler, feel free.
Tyler: Little tangent about elementary wand safety. That was something that jumped out at me in this read that I’d never really considered.
Noah: Yeah.
Tyler: Is this something that’s covered in maybe Charms or Transfiguration in the first weeks of classes?
Kat: No.
Rosie: It’s something that parents would maybe teach if they had a wizarding child.
Tyler: Sure, but what about Muggle-borns or someone in Harry’s position who…? I mean, maybe is it something Ollivander goes through, and we were never really privy to that knowledge?
Rosie: Is there a pamphlet?
Tyler: Do you get a little instruction manual? “How to Take Care of My Wand.”
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Tyler: I don’t know. It was something that was very interesting since “Yeah, I guess now I have this stick that shoots sparks out, and how do I make sure this thing doesn’t catch on fire or cause something to catch on fire?” I don’t know.
Kat: Okay, Noah, don’t comment on anything Tyler just said.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: All right, well, you all know what I’m going to say.
Kat: Yes, I know you well enough at this point.
Noah: This is great. We’ve known each other for years; this is so cool.
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Noah: I’m not even going to touch that.
[Kat and Tyler laugh]
Rosie: Kat, there are valid points in all of this. I mean, Jo herself in that 50 Shades of Grey interview said, “Just imagine how many more books I would have sold if Harry was a little more inventive with his wand.”
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: She said it herself.
Noah: The closest we ever get to that, and I’ve talked about this with Michael, and I believe he agrees with me a little bit. We get this little bit with Professor Lupin, Harry, and the Patronus Charm.
Kat: Yes.
Rosie: We discussed that before.
Kat: We’ve been there, discussed that. Yeah.
Noah: On that same vein, Harry takes flight on his broomstick for the first time, and it’s incredible. I’m just going to read this passage, and feel free to read into it.
“He felt as though his heart was going to explode with pleasure. He was flying again. Flying away from Privet Drive as he had been fantasizing about all summer. He was going home. For a few glorious moments all his problems seemed to recede into nothing, insignificant in the vast starry sky.”
Kat: I don’t have to read into it. I agree that this is the equivalent. I’m not going to call it what you put it in the doc, but I think that it is… yeah, I mean, this is definitely like a very amazing moment for Harry, something that is above and beyond probably most of his happy feelings in his life.
Rosie: It’s euphoric.
Kat: Euphoric! Good word. Good word. So I don’t have to read into the paragraph because I agree. I just don’t see it as a sexual experience.
Noah: No, I mean, it’s certainly euphoric. You have to try to read it in the sexual way; you have to put that lens on. And that’s at least the English major in me.
Rosie: Which is where we differ because I don’t try to do that. I just like reading the book. [laughs]
Noah: The English major where I had it, which, I might add, [unintelligible]‘s English major copies Harvard’s English major, etc., etc., the appropriate task is to put on lenses and to try and read the text in different ways. And if you buy in, here, to the sexual reading, then you have to also buy into the Firebolt as this phallic imagine, and when Tonks’s eyes are widening at “Wow! A Firebolt!” then that leads to this weird tension between them.
Kat: Didn’t we end that?
Rosie: Yes.
Noah: I just brought it back.
Kat: I know.
Noah: But it’s ended again.
Kat: Okay.
Rosie: Oh, Noah, if only Freud could get his hands on you.
Noah: Oh.
Kat: Oh, Lord.
[Tyler laughs]
Noah: I would be a head case. But anyway, then some flying happens, and then they arrive at Grimmauld Place.
Kat: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
[Noah laughs]
Kat: You’re just going to end it like that?
[Noah and Rosie laugh]
Noah: Yeah.
Rosie: To be continued.
Noah: There’s not much. It’s really just flying.
Kat: Talk about an unsatisfying ending. Ba-dum bing! That was pretty lame, my friend.
[Noah, Rosie, and Tyler laugh]
Rosie: It’s our first bit of information about this particular charm as well, so I think it’s important to note where he’s arrived.
Noah: Yes, let’s… I will do that. He arrives, and of course, we know it is the Fidelius Charm. Moody is the Secret Keeper, and the only way for Harry to enter Grimmauld Place is for him to know where it is and the exact address. And the letter says, “The Headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix may be found at Number 12 Grimmauld Place, London.”
Kat: I’m not sure you actually know how the charm works.
Rosie: No, but we get that piece of paper, which is important because it will be explained in the next chapter.
Kat: Right.
Noah: Yes. And now what I’m doing now is sort of ending all my moments in my thing with this sort of weird ramble. Was it good for you?
Kat: Oh my God.
[Noah laughs]
Noah: I had a blast. I had a good time. And that is the chapter.
Rosie: So it is now time for our Podcast Question of the Week, and I am very sad to say, “We will be taking off our Noah-tinted glasses for this question…”
[Kat, Noah, and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: … and instead we will be focusing on the fact that this chapter sees a variety of wizards breaking in to a Muggle house, Harry Potter’s house, no less – how does that not break the Trace? – in order to essentially steal a very well-known figure. And we want to know what you guys think about these particular wizards, and why did they sign up to go […] escort Harry? What do you think about the fact that they essentially break in rather than knocking on the door or just trying to greet Harry in a slightly more polite way than just tricking the aunt and uncle out of the house? How they react when they actually see him. Are they there because of Lily and James, or are they there because of Harry’s celebrity status? Let us know what you think on the Alohomora! website at alohomora.mugglenet.com.
Kat: What a fun episode this has been.
Noah: This is very fun. I had a lot of fun.
Rosie: Very fun episode.
Kat: Yeah, and Tyler, thank you for joining us. We hope you had fun.
Tyler: Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.
Kat: Good, I’m glad. You were fun. It was nice to have another Ravenclaw on the show because that doesn’t happen very often, to be honest.
Tyler: Woo!
Kat: So. Because I’m the only one.
Noah: It’s true. It was a Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw show.
Kat: It was. Oh, the lesser knowns.
[Tyler laughs]
Rosie: Ravenpuffs!
Kat: Ravenpuffs… or Huffleclaws?
Rosie: Of course.
Noah: I often think Ravenpuffs would be interesting cereal. Like bloody little Raven bits.
[Kat laughs]
Tyler: Oh no.
Rosie: Gross.
[Rosie and Tyler laugh]
Kat: Bloody?
Rosie: It’s what Jon Snow eats.
Kat: Yeah.
[Tyler and Rosie laugh]
Noah: Exactly.
Rosie: If you guys would like to be on the show as well, you can join us by heading over to our website and checking out the “Be on the Show” page at alohomora.mugglenet.com. You will need a microphone of some description. If you have a set of Apple headphones, then you are all sorted completely. No other fancy equipment needed – just good quality headphones and a good quality microphone.
Noah: And if you want to get in contact with us, we have a Twitter account (@AlohomoraMN). All the hosts also have personal Twitter accounts. You might have to dig a little to search them, but…
Kat: There’s a staff list on the Alohomora! Twitter…
Noah: Oh, right.
Kat: … and you can follow all of us at once.
Noah: Yes. You can follow the list there if you want to see our individual updates.
Kat: Just a warning: I send out a lot of quotes. So heads up.
Noah: Yeah. You can also contact us on facebook.com/openthedumbledore, on Tumblr (our address is mnalohomorapodcast.tumblr.com)… that’s a cool place. I try to post there from time to time, but for the most part it’s kept up by our team over there. It’s really cool. You can also call us: 206-GO-ALBUS.
Kat: And… hold on. I would suggest that everybody listen to the very end of this episode because we have a very special voicemail from somebody, so…
Noah: Okay.
Tyler: Ooh.
Noah: You can also subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, which we love to read, and then also lets other listeners know if they want to listen to us. You can follow us on SnapChat at MN_Alohomora, run by Michael Platco, who is a great artist, a great friend of the show. He was on a couple of episodes back, and we hope to have him on again at some point. You can also leave us an Audioboo. You can find those directly on alohomora.mugglenet.com, and it’s free to record. All you need is a microphone.
Rosie: And don’t forget: We also have our store, where you can get T-shirts, tote bags, sweatshirts, flip-flops, water bottles, travel mugs, and much, much more. There'[re] over 80 products to choose from and more coming soon. There’s also something rather special in the works for a few weeks down the line, so do keep your eyes peeled for that. We also have ringtones that are free and available on our website.
Kat: And of course, our smartphone app, which is available seemingly worldwide. Nobody has come to us and [said], “I can’t get it,” yet, so until then, they do “seemingly” – Eric’s favorite word. Anyway, prices vary depending on where you live, of course. And on that app you can find transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, weird videos from us, and all this other stuff. So definitely check it out. It’s beyond worth it as far as we’re concerned, so… [laughs]
Noah: Yeah. And I have a special announcement now [that] really goes well with this episode, so…
[Kat and Rosie]
Kat: It does, actually!
Noah: It’s perfect. So having podcasted a while now, I’ve realized that… it was really a learning process. At first I wanted to say a lot of stuff, and I gradually realized that some of it was appropriate and some of it not at other times. I’ve decided to start a new podcast with my friends – a lot of college friends, actually – called The Sex Show about sex. And what it is is it’s a show about sex, but beyond that, it’s an intellectual explore into all the themes that go with sex. It’s not a Harry Potter show; this is not for kids, for sure. It’s definitely young adults who are interested in thinking about sex in open ways – and not just the practice but the intellectual aspect [as well]. Just to give an example, the first episode was about wondering if technology is disrupting sexuality. There'[re] arguments to be made that technology is disrupting our basic human interactions, but is it changing the way we do sex? Yeah, possibly. The second episode was about feminism and sex and how feminism as a philosophy has influenced sexuality. It’s a very thoughtful show. A real great way to figure out if you like it is if you liked the stuff that I did in this chapter, I would say that you probably are more likely to like that podcast. I mean, you have sense of my style, so this is just a very different show, but it’s not on iTunes, yet, but it’s going to be hopefully soon, so I’ll let everyone know when it’s out and also very interested in feedback, especially in the beginning, because we want to make sure that we make the best show that we can. It’s really now just a learning process, so…
Kat: You just want to make sure that you’re pleasing your listeners?
[Noah and Tyler laugh]
Noah: Yes. I want to please you. I want to please you all.
Kat: Got it.
Noah: And that’s it.
Rosie: Just make sure that you keep your wands in your trousers, though.
[Noah, Rosie, and Tyler laugh]
Kat: And your buttocks on.
Noah: Wands away.
Rosie: Right.
Kat: Right, exactly.
[Show music begins]
Noah: All right, everybody, and that’s our show. Thank you, Tyler, for being on. Great episode. I’m Noah Fried.
Rosie: I’m Rosie Morris.
Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 80 of Alohomora!
Noah: Open the Dumbledore!
[Show music continues]
Kat: That made no sense. Let me read that again.
Noah: [laughs] Well, the comment is not… yeah.
Kat: Right. Okay.
“Although the Howler message is rather interesting on its own right, but that’s not what I really want to discuss.”
Noah: [laughs] It’s bad writing. It’s bad form, AccioPotassium!
Kat: [laughs] Noah, stop making me laugh!
[Tyler laughs]
Kat: Stop making me laugh. He’s making fun of you, AccioPotassium! Anyway, okay.
“On the letter’s address…”
Noah: It’s actually [pronounces as “Ak-see-oh”ù] Accio, we learned. Sorry.
Kat: Are you done?
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: [laughs] Okay.
