Transcript – Episode 73

[Show music begins]

Caleb Graves: This is Episode 73 of Alohomora! for March 8, 2014.

[Show music continues]

Caleb: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.

Laura Reilly: I’m Laura Reilly.

Kat Miller: And I’m Kat Miller. And our guest host today is, well, someone you all know. You love him or you hate him, according to the iTunes comments. Micah Tannenbaum!

Micah Tannenbaum: Hey, guys. How are you?

Kat: Hey. Good. How are you?

Micah: I’m doing well. I’m happy to be here, back. I think this is my third go through with you guys.

Kat: Yeah.

Caleb: Yeah, I think you’re the most frequent guest we have now.

Kat: You are.

Micah: What does that say about you?

Caleb: I don’t know. Maybe we’ll let the people on iTunes decide.

Laura: You’re the best we can do.

[Kat and Micah laugh]

Micah: No, well, then I would never come back on the show.

[Caleb and Laura laugh]

Laura: I’ve been gone for like a month, so hi, everybody. My schedule hasn’t been letting me record but very glad to be back.

Kat: Yeah. I think, Micah, you’ve been on three books, though, right?

Laura: Yeah. No.

Kat: Were you on once for Goblet already?

Laura: Yeah. Remember the whole Augusta Longbottom at the Quidditch World Cup?

Kat: Oh, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: What did I say?

Laura: She got around.

Kat: Yeah, Neville’s grandma. I remember.

Caleb: Mhm.

Micah: Well, it’s well documented.

[Caleb, Kat, and Laura laugh]

Kat: It is well documented.

Micah: You’ll find out more about that in the new Newt Scamander film series.

Kat: Nice. Something to look forward to.

Caleb: Ooh.

Micah: That’s what I’ve heard. I mean, I still get bits of news every once in a while that I can hopefully share.

Laura: All right. So just a reminder to you guys to read Chapter 35, “Veritaserum,” of Goblet of Fire this week.

Kat: Mhm. And it…

Micah: Is that the chapter?

Kat: It is the chapter.

Caleb: It is.

Laura: No, I lied.

Micah: Oh.

Caleb: Did you read it?

Micah: Maybe.

Caleb: Okay.

Laura: Never ever.

Kat: We’ll find out soon enough after we jump into our comments from last week’s chapter, Chapter 34 of Goblet of Fire. Our first one here comes from AccioPotassium!

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: Does that person just need more potassium in their diet, or…

Kat: [laughs] I guess so. We should buy them some bananas.

Caleb: There we go.

Kat: All right. The comment says,

“I’ve found it particularly interesting on how Frank Bryce manifested from the Dark Lord’s wand. All the other ghost-like forms that appeared from the effects of Priori Incantatem…”

Look, I practiced how to say it.

Caleb: Hey, that’s awesome. You figured it out.

Laura: Oh, I haven’t. So what is it? [laughs]

Kat: I did say it. Priori Incantatem.

Laura: Priori Incantatem. I haven’t said that in my whole life.

Kat: I said it so bad last week.

Caleb: Yeah, I laughed out loud listening back.

Kat: I’m sure you did.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: So…

“All the other ghost-like forms that appeared from the effects of Priori Incantatem were either a Witch or a wizard, while Frank Bryce being [the only] Muggle that came into being. In Pottermore’s information about chapter fourteen of Chamber of Secrets, we learned that Muggles are unable to become ghosts when they die, and only witches and wizards are able to decide which path they take after their deaths. If we can consider the imprints of Voldemort’s wand similar to that of ghosts, the soul form of Frank Bryce may have contradicted information that we have learned from Pottermore.”

Laura: Hmm.

Kat: In response to that, RoseLumos says,

“Very interesting. From another perspective this scene plays a bit into Jo’s religious ideology since it seems that in the Harry Potter universe there is a very clear afterlife. If the Harry Potter universe operates according the the Judeo-Christian Bible then there is a heaven. So perhaps Wizards and Muggles both live in heaven and watch what is happening. Then Priori Incantatem ‘called’ them back to Earth. So maybe they aren’t ghosts, but angels?”

Laura: I’m sort of in the camp that they’re almost just not really actually there super much, but it’s kind of similar to… well, I guess the Resurrection Stone, then, would actually be there, too. I don’t know. I just feel like it’s almost like a shade of them, just…

Caleb: I think that they’re there because of what Lily says to Harry before James comes out. She says something like, “He will want to see you.” So that made me think that they were leaving whatever plane they were in at that time, and James is anxious to leave to come see Harry.

Laura: Okay. That’s true. I take what I said back, then. Forgot about that.

Kat: I just thought it was interesting, the comparison between ghosts and angels. I guess that’s something that I hadn’t really thought about before and…

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: … the angels thing makes me think about – obviously, like you were saying – the Resurrection Stone in Deathly Hallows, how they were kind of “living” in Harry. I don’t know, that’s… it’s intriguing. I really liked the whole thought, which is why I brought it up.

Laura: I’m more intrigued by the whole Frank Bryce thing. Just I never really considered the fact that he was a Muggle. For some reason, that just never crossed my mind, that “Oh yeah, that’s weird. Is he weirded out right now because he’s a ghost or whatever you would call them among wizards?” I’ve never thought about that.

Micah: So he shouldn’t count?

Laura: I mean, it makes sense for him to be brought back, but I don’t know. I don’t know how he’d act.

Kat: I think because of what they do for Harry in this scene, I’m going to go with the angels angle. That makes more sense to me than ghosts.

Laura: Yeah, something along those lines.

Kat: Yeah.

Micah: I could see Frank Bryce as an angel.

Caleb: What kind of angel would he be?

Micah: Actually, you know what? I’ve heard stories about him, too. Him and Augusta Longbottom.

Caleb: Oh, really?

[Micah laughs]

Caleb: So she’s not particular about the type of people she is friendly with?

Micah: No, why should she be?

Caleb: Yeah, she won’t discriminate, so…

Laura: Is this our only comment? Can I see?

Kat: That is because 99 percent of our conversation is around… centers around this idea, and…

Laura: Okay.

Kat: … if I had tried to read all of these comments, the show would be four hours long. And I know there are some people out there [who] wouldn’t mind that, but… so I’m going to encourage all of our listeners to go join this conversation on the main site and in the forums. Yeah, do that.

Laura: Cool. Well, sort of on a similar note, and I’m sure I will butcher the pronunciation of this spell because I haven’t practiced, but we’re going to get into post-Question of the Week responses, and the question last week, I think, was Michael?

Kat: No, it was me.

Laura: Oh, it was you? Oh, I thought it said Michael on the thing.

Kat: That’s okay.

Laura: Okay! Cool. Well, it says, “When Harry and Voldemort’s wands connect, Harry senses a voice telling him very clearly not to break the connection. Were those words possibly spoken by the disembodied voice of Albus Dumbledore? Because of his connection to Fawkes, was Dumbledore in some way present that night in the graveyard, or was it instead the voice of Fawkes? Someone else? The phoenix song also emits from the wands in this event; can both Harry and Voldemort hear it, or is Voldemort hearing something else? Lastly, [laughs] if Harry and Voldemort’s wands were different cores, heartstrings from the same dragon or hairs from the same unicorn, for instance, how would the sequence have been different? What would those cores do in a Priori Incantatem situation?” That’s… many questions.

Caleb: Kat… yeah, your Ravenclaw is showing. There’s way more than one.

Laura: There’s like 12 questions.

Kat: Sorry, no one typed it up, and no one likes to make things more complicated, so…

Micah: No, really?

Laura: Joint blame?

Kat: Yeah, really. So blame Noah for the wording of this.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: Sorry.

Laura: All right, well, listeners tended to really focus in on two points of this many-layered question. So the first one comes from DolphinPatronus, and it says,

“I’d first like to say that I believe Priori Incantatem is an EXTREMELY rare phenomenon. Let’s face it: how often do we really think 2 wands with twin cores really battle? [With] that said I think the only people Harry heard speak were the ‘ghosts’ that came from the wand. I think the other ‘voice’ was more related to the feeling of hope that hearing the phoenix song brought [to] him […] more [..] than anything else. Does that make sense?”

… the person asks. Sure!

“As for what Voldemort hears, I think he does hear the phoenix song. However, I think it has a very different effect on him. In Fantastic Beast[s] it says that phoenix song is reputed ‘to strike fear into the hearts of the impure,’ & I feel this is backed up in [his character]. albeit [subtlely]. On page 665 of the US edition as Harry starts to concentrate harder on the song & lets it fill his ears, the beads of light stop & begin to go back. At this point Voldemort is said to look ‘astonished & almost fearful…’ After this he is described as ‘shocked’ more than once. So I think other than the things that Voldemort’s victims are saying to each of them, Harry & Voldemort are hearing the same thing. (In my head the victims talk to Voldemort like the locket did to Ron.)”

Okay, so that was a lot, but breaking it down, pretty much. I thought… I didn’t know that because I forget about Fantastic Beasts, that the phoenix song strikes fear in the impure. I think that’s pretty interesting.

Caleb: Yeah, I forgot about that as well.

Kat: I had, too. That was a good point there, DolphinPatronus.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: That’s what I use on people sometimes. Phoenix song.

Caleb: Yeah? It’s the method of attack?

Micah: Yeah. If you’re out at a bar, and some people are calling you extremely weird.

Caleb: [laughs] God! For those who don’t know, this… are you talking about this one instance in New Orleans?

Micah: Yes.

Caleb: Where Micah was in New Orleans for the NBA All-Star Game, and a random person walked up in him in a New Orleans bar and said – what was it? – “You’re one of the most awkward people I’ve ever met”? Or “I know”? Or something. I guess they even met you, but…

Micah: Right.

Laura: That’s hilarious. [laughs]

Kat: What if he didn’t want that story to be public, Caleb?

Caleb: Well, he talked about it on Game of Owns.

Laura: He referenced it.

Kat: Oh, fine. Sorry, I don’t watch Game of Thrones, so I don’t…

Micah: That’s okay.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: Okay.

Laura: Well…

Caleb: That person deserved a phoenix song because that person was very impure.

Laura: Clearly. Okay. So basically, I agree with this comment, and a lot of the people on the website also agreed, just pretty much that they’re both hearing the same things. They’re just almost hearing… interpreting the same things differently, or it has different effects on them. But another angle – or this was approaching the other question about the wand cores – from FeatherSickle7662 says,

“I think perhaps Fawkes was not actually speaking but rather making a telepathic connection with Harry to help him to not break the connection (much like the connection with Lord Voldemort). I think Lord Voldemort is hearing the same thing Harry is hearing when the song emits from the wand; they both have the same core, after all. The song will not affect Lord Voldemort in the same way, of course, because he is rotten to the core…”

Get it? “Core,” ha, okay.

“and doesn’t know happiness or love (love stemming from the fact [that] I think at this point Dumbledore really does care for Harry; therefore, the song is more meaningful to Harry). I think perhaps if […] the cores were to be unicorn hair, we would hear some sort of call that a unicorn makes or even see a[n] ‘apparition’, so to speak, of a unicorn running around them. If it were dragon heartstring, I would imagine a great roar or fire emitting from both wands. I think that, much like the phoenix feather, the heartstrings and hair would react the same way in regards to Priori Incatatem. They are all very magical creatures; all of these things are strong, powerful and parts of each of these creatures.”

Caleb: Hmm.

Laura: What do you guys think?

Kat: I want to see the fire erupting from their wands. That would have been epic.

Laura: Well, isn’t that pretty much what happens? Or at least in the movie. I’m not sure if it does in the books, but Deathly Hallows, when the wand acts on itself? Harry’s wand in the beginning? Wasn’t that fire?

Caleb: Like, when all the Potters…

Laura: Yeah.

Caleb: … leave the Dursley house? I don’t know if there’s fire.

Laura: The movie made it seem like fire. I know that’s the movie, but I’m just…

Caleb: Yeah. I’m pretty sure it’s not fire in the book.

Laura: Should be fire.

Kat: Yeah, I don’t think so.

Caleb: I mean, though, Hagrid’s – or Sirius’s – motorcycle that they’re on, that kicks out fire, but…

Laura: Oh. Yeah. Right.

Kat: Plus, at that point, he has Lucius’s wand. So there wouldn’t be any sort of reaction like that.

Laura: Oh. Yeah. True. That being said, I don’t particularly agree with what’s being said here about… I don’t think a unicorn would have really appeared and started dancing and whatnot.

Kat: [laughs] No.

Laura: Lovely thought. But not in my opinion.

Kat: Probably, yeah. Probably not. That’s probably true. Dancing unicorn.

Laura: All right.

Caleb: So now we’re going to move into this week’s chapter.

[Goblet of Fire Chapter 35 intro begins]

[Sound of Moody’s chest opening]

Imposter Moody: Chapter 35.

[Sound of Moody’s chest opening continues]

Imposter Moody: “Veritaserum.”

[Sound of Moody’s chest finishing opening]

[Goblet of Fire Chapter 35 intro ends]

Caleb: So at the beginning of this chapter, Harry returns…

Micah: Godric’s Hollow.

Caleb: … to the normal world.

Micah: Wrong chapter.

Caleb: Umm, yeah, no. Not that place. Yeah, wrong chapter. He comes back to the Hogwarts grounds because he has just portkeyed himself back. And Cedric’s body. He’s super disoriented because he’s been through some stuff, and it sounds like he’s pretty much on the verge of losing consciousness, and soon enough, hands are seizing him and turning him over, and he mentions that he’s at the edge of the maze. I was puzzled by this because the Portkey was at the middle of the maze, so shouldn’t the Portkey return him to the exact same spot? Or am I just… I don’t… I’m not sure.

Laura: I mean, I’m not sure if we’ve ever… if it says Portkeys are… I made the analogy to an airport terminal where it’s going to bring you back to that same airport. I had the idea that there was almost… you can program into it departing and return destinations.

Kat: And I also was thinking about that. I would think logically that yes, it would return to the same spot. However, I think that this would have been a show of Harry’s dead body if the plan had worked properly. And they would definitely want him to return in the middle of the crowd.

Caleb: Hmm.

Micah: That’d have been awesome.

Caleb: Fair enough.

Laura: Could you imagine if that happened?

Kat: It did…

Caleb: That would have been pretty tight.

Kat: Terrifying.

Laura: I mean, that’s pretty much what happens with Cedric, but… double up.

Micah: Well, did you guys talk about this previously in terms of if the Portkey should have even been able to take them back in the first place?

Kat: Yeah. I don’t remember what we settled on, but I think we had that discussion a couple [of] episodes ago.

Laura: I would say no, but whatever. Unless what Caleb said. Unless it was specifically programmed, for lack of a better word, to bring them back to put on a show.

Caleb: Yeah, because at the World Cup…

Laura: Because at that point, Voldemort is supposed to be risen, and…

Caleb: At the World Cup, don’t they take something else different back as a Portkey?

Laura: Yeah.

Kat: Yeah, a different object. Yeah, they do.

Caleb: Hmm. Right. Interesting.

Kat: Right, because also, once they arrive, they throw them aside. They chuck them aside, and I think they say, “a pile of random Muggle objects.”

Laura: But the thing is, is that there’s nothing random or discrete about the cup.

Kat: Right. That’s true.

Caleb: So it’s the question of “Is it actually possible to have it like a return destination for a Portkey?”

Kat: Seemingly, it is.

Laura: I think… I guess so, yeah.

Caleb: Yeah. But well, I’m asking, “Did she intended that they, or is this an oversight?”

Laura: No, I think it could be because I do agree with what you said that if all had gone to plan, assuming they can’t Apparate back to Hogwarts…

Kat: Which they can’t.

Laura: Right, yeah… then they would need to get back there to claim their dominance and be like, “I’m risen. By the way, Harry Potter is dead and this other guy,” so…

Caleb: “And about to kill the rest of you.”

Laura: Exactly.

Kat: But wait, I think maybe I take back my theory because when Laura was just saying that, how they would come back, because Voldemort didn’t want anybody to know that he had come back. So…

Laura: Because Harry survived? Do you think he would have still been lying low if he had killed Harry?

Kat: Yeah, I do.

Laura: I don’t know.

Kat: Oh, I don’t know.

Laura: I mean, maybe he would have taken a rest day, but…

Micah: A day off.

Kat: A rest day. [laughs]

Laura: I don’t know, he got all his Death Eaters back and at that point – assuming everything had gone to plan – it’s like, “I got a body back, I have my power back, my main enemy is dead, all went great, going to go show this off now”…

Kat: Well, because they talk about – I think it’s in this chapter or the next chapter – how Dumbledore says that Harry foiled the plan. Nobody was supposed to know that Voldemort was back but the first thing he did was run and tell Dumbledore. I don’t know. No, I guess I agree with my original thought, that it was supposed to bring back Harry’s dead body.

Laura: Yeah, maybe without Voldemort… maybe you weren’t supposed to know exactly what happened but still just inspire fear and then slowly start crawling back with more fear…

Kat: Maybe.

Laura: … which is pretty much what happens eventually.

Kat: Right.

Caleb: Yeah, so eventually what does happen is Dumbledore and Fudge reach Harry, and Fudge is always in denial about anything, and once again he is here, thinking that Cedric is not dead and he just needs to go to the hospital wing. Clever wizard, that one.

Kat: Wait, he’s… isn’t he saying that about Harry?

Caleb: No, I don’t think so… maybe I misread, but… wait, no, okay, the text says, “What’s wrong with him? Diggory’s dead.” Then Amos…or Fudge, excuse me. Fudge says, “‘He’ll need to go to the hospital wing,’ Fudge was saying loudly. ‘He’s ill, he’s injured, Dumbledore… Diggory’s parents, they’re here, they’re in the same…'” – Maybe. But I read it as he was trying to push it off that he’s actually just injured.

Laura: I think Kat’s correct.

Caleb: Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe I just read it too fast. He’s still dumb. But…

[Kat laughs]

Laura: He probably also still wanted to cart him off to the hospital wing and not leave him lying there.

Caleb: Yeah, that’s true.

Kat: Mhm.

Caleb: Okay, so it doesn’t tell you that Moody-Crouch is with them, but you kind of assume it’s with them. He is trying to get Dumbledore to tell Amos so that he can – he, being Moody-Crouch – can get Harry away from them. And then he does successfully do that and he immediately starts asking Harry what happened. And then they do leave the scene – the scene of the maze – and Cedric being dead, and they get to Moody’s office. Harry starts spitting details about what happened in the graveyard and Moody-Crouch becomes increasingly eager for more information and as readers, I would like to think that this is the point where I start to say, “Something is clearly weird, because we have never seen Moody be like this.”

Laura: Yeah.

Caleb: And then, soon enough, we find out Moody-Crouch reveals to Harry that he was the one that in fact put Harry’s name in the Goblet of Fire. He responds to Harry’s suspicion that Karkaroff did it, and we find out that Karkaroff ran off when the Dark Mark showed up on his arm. So we find out, at this point – as first readers we would have thought, “Wait, what? What is Moody doing?” – but we find out that he is the one that put the name in the Goblet of Fire. And then we find out a ton of other stuff about what this guy did.

Laura: Info dump.

Caleb: Yeah. This is info dump number one. The smaller one. So we learn that he shot the Dark Mark at the World Cup, he put Harry’s name in the Goblet of Fire, he made sure Harry hit no obstacles, he nudged Hagrid to show him the dragons, helped Harry figure out how to defeat the dragons, and he talks more at length of how he helped Harry. [laughs] There’s one really funny part – because we always joke about this – he tells Harry, “I had to contend with your stupidity.”

[Caleb, Kat, and Laura laugh]

Caleb: Harry sucking once again.

Laura: [unintelligible]

Caleb: And so Moody had to – he was talking about the Second Task – and so Moody – Moody-Crouch I should say – had to help Cedric to help Harry, so this was pointing out really how well he did this. He made sure that it wasn’t so obvious that he was giving so much to Harry, he got Hagrid to work for the First Task, he did it indirectly through Cedric on the Second Task, and he’s lucky that everything rolled out the way it did.

Laura: And bewitched Krum to make sure that Fleur got out.

Caleb: Right, yeah, that’s in the maze. Yeah.

Kat: And the big staged conversation with Dobby. Yup.

Caleb: Right, yeah, so this was a really interesting passage. He’s talking to Harry. It says, “It would have told you all you needed to know about Gillyweed. I expected you to ask everyone and anyone you could for help. Longbottom would’ve told you in an instant, but you did not. You did not. You have a streak of pride and independence that might have ruined all.” Ouch.

Kat: Does that…

Laura: Pretty much sums up the series. [laughs]

Caleb and Kat: Yeah.

Kat: It kind of sounds like he’s talking about himself, almost… just saying, it kind of sounds like him.

Caleb: Hmm, that’s true, yeah.

Laura: Hm? I don’t really see that. Can you elaborate a bit?

Kat: I don’t know, it’s just the “super-villains” tend to monologue, and when they do, I think most times it also relates to…

Caleb: They’re projecting.

Kat: Yeah, to their personality. Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. All right.

Kat: So I guess I see that here.

Caleb: And then – as Kat mentioned – we found out that he spoke loudly about Gillyweed so that Dobby would overhear, and then Dobby stole it from Snape’s office and gave it to Harry, and then – as we already mentioned – in the maze he stunned Fleur, he used the Imperius curse on Krum, so that Krum would go after Cedric. So clearly very well orchestrated. You have to… I mean he’s a d-bag, but you have got to give it up to Crouch for being able to run all this through.

Kat: He’s smart.

Laura: I almost feel bad for him that it didn’t work out, [laughs] just with the amount of effort that went into it and how difficult of a job it is. Obviously I don’t want that to have happened, but I’m like “Man that must suck to have done that the whole year, and done it so well, and be like ‘Aww!'”

Kat: I’ve always said that he’s one of my favorite characters.

Micah: Who’s that?

Caleb: Right.

Kat: Not because I like him, but because he’s like…

Micah: Who’s your favorite character?

Kat: Actually, Dobby is my favorite character.

Micah: Mhm. A good choice.

Caleb: But here she was talking about Crouch Jr.

Micah: Oh.

Kat: Yeah. Here I was talking about Junior.

Laura: Wasn’t that Eric’s thing? That Barty Crouch was his favorite?

Micah: Oh, geez.

Laura: He was talking… He wanted a T-shirt that said “I get behind Barty Crouch” or something.

[Caleb and Kat laugh]

Caleb: Well, that’s an interesting choice of words, but…

Laura: Yeah, we talked about it. Micah was all…

Micah: Yeah. Don’t worry, I called him out on that.

Caleb: Oh.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: But it’s all predicated on chance though, isn’t it?

Kat: Yeah, it is, absolutely.

Caleb: Yeah, it definitely is.

Micah: “Oh, you told me about this house-elf at the Yule Ball, so I happened to scream loud enough so he would overhear and steal Gillyweed.”

Caleb and Kat: Right.

Caleb: It actually makes me think about back in Sorcerer’s Stone we had Steve Vander Ark on talking about how there’s just this overall magical universe at work here, that things just sort of happen.

Kat: Right.

Laura: Throwback.

Kat: The fates… I remember that, that was the Dumbledore puppet-master episode. I remember that one.

Caleb: Yeah. So while this is happening, Harry is noticing dark figures showing up in the Foe-Glass and I really love this chapter because the Foe-Glass is one of my… maybe, well, I wouldn’t say necessarily the most, but definitely one of my favorite magical objects in the entire series. I think it’s fascinating.

Micah: Do you have one?

Caleb: No, but I would like one, so if you know where to get me one…

Micah: The Noble Collection.

Caleb: Okay.

[Kat and Laura laugh]

Caleb: Thanks. So dark figures are showing up and they’re getting increasingly clearer as they get closer to them in the glass and so it says that there are three figures and we know from later in the chapter that Dumbledore, Snape, and McGonagall show up. And I’m a little hurt that it said Snape instead of McGonagall first, but anyway.

Micah: Why is that?

Kat: The line I wanted to talk about is right in this section, so…

Caleb: Okay. But right before that I was just going to say I guess it’s interesting because we can assume since Moody-Crouch has sort of taken over everything Moody owns he’s in possession of it so the Foe-Glass is working. It should be showing him that his own foes are coming through. I think that’s really interesting even though it’s the real Moody’s object. It is now playing to the benefit of Barty Crouch Jr.

Laura: Is that not how the object works? I just thought it was anyone who is – much like the Mirror of Erised – whoever looks in it sees their own. Right?

Caleb: Yeah, that’s the point I’m making. That’s what the object does.

Laura: Yeah, okay.

Caleb: That it’s not necessarily possessive.

Micah: So, Caleb, you could just buy a mirror.

Kat: But…

Laura: That’s cool.

Caleb: Ugh. Because everyone is… oh, no, you’re saying myself is my own foe? Thanks, Micah. Thanks.

Micah: No. Wait, what?

[Kat and Laura laugh]

Caleb: Oh, I thought you were saying that if a mirror is my Foe-Glass then that’s telling me myself is my actual enemy.

Laura: Caleb’s just projecting his own thoughts right now. [laughs]

Caleb: What were you saying?

Micah: I was just saying to go on the cheap, you could buy yourself a mirror instead of going to the Noble Collection.

Caleb: Oh. Okay.

Micah: And pretend its a Foe-Glass.

[Kat and Laura laugh]

Micah: Maybe spray some Windex.

Kat: Are you sure that that’s how the Foe-Glass works? Because I’ve always thought of it as a possessive object.

Caleb: Well, but clearly here it’s showing the enemies of Barty Crouch Jr.

Laura: I’ve never thought that it was possessive. I’ve just thought of it exactly like the technology – for lack of a better word – behind the Mirror of Erised. Yeah, I…

Micah: I thought it was supposed to show people’s true self. They’re true intentions.

Laura: I haven’t seen any object that’s been that possessive, not even the wands are truly that possessive. They are the most of any other object in the world, but even then.

Caleb: They have to be won.

Laura: What?

Caleb: They have to be won. So they are possessive but they have to be won to a new allegiance.

Laura: Yeah, but at the same time you can still pick it up and use it and it’s going to work but not to the degree. I’m just saying that obviously, yes, they are the most possessive object but even then they’re at 99% versus 100.

Micah: Right.

Caleb: Mmm.

Laura: So I don’t feel like the Foe-Glass would be fully possessive because I don’t see any other object in the world besides the wands that are.

Kat: The Foe-Glass is too personalized to not be possessive. Think about the Remembrall. If the Remembrall wasn’t ever possessive… it wasn’t… it didn’t belong to one person, then it would always be glowing red.

Laura: How do you suppose…

Kat: If the Foe-Glass didn’t belong to one person as well there would always be somebody showing up in it.

Caleb: Well, but so the Remembrall is triggered by someone holding it, I guess. The last person that holds it. Like Laura said, the Mirror of Erised, it doesn’t always show something.

Laura: It’s just whoever’s in front of it.

Caleb: It has to have a person in front of it.

Kat: Okay, so if I picked up a Remembrall and it glowed red and I set it down, it would just change back?

Laura: Yeah.

Kat: That’s unhelpful.

Caleb: Well, it would still keep glowing red because you were the last person to possess it. So if you still had something you were forgetting, it wouldn’t necessarily have to stay in your hand, but you were the last person to trigger it…

Kat: Hmm.

Micah: Right. So…

Caleb: That’s my theory.

Laura: Yeah, I just don’t think something like that, something that’s a mirror, that would only work for one person – the person originally owned it – because then it’s like who sold them the Foe-Glass? Did they never look in it? It’s… I don’t know.

Kat: But the Foe-Glass isn’t a mirror or something that you look in.

Laura: Isn’t it though? Sort of?

Micah: I look in mine.

Laura: For lack of a better word… mirrorlike.

Kat: [laughs] No, I…

Caleb: I don’t think you see really your reflection in it.

Micah: Unless you are your own worst enemy.

Laura: Yeah, I don’t know what other word you would use to get the ideas across.

Caleb: Right, which is what I was correcting.

Micah: But I…

Kat: Hmm. I guess we’ll throw this one to the listeners.

Micah: Do it. Throw it to them. What do they say?

Caleb: Yeah.

Micah: Next episode.

Caleb: If they catch it.

Micah: But…

Kat: Yeah.

Micah: … what I remember from this chapter – and this particular scene – is that this is really what people latched on to for the argument that Snape is actually good.

Caleb: Oh. Yeah.

Kat: Really?

Laura: Ooh.

Caleb: I never thought about that. That’s so good.

Micah: Because he seen as an enemy of Barty Crouch Jr.

Caleb: Yeah.

Laura: Ooh.

Kat: That’s clever. I’d never thought about that.

Caleb: The answer what there all along, guys!

Micah: There. I can leave now right? I’ve done my work for the evening?

[Caleb laughs]

Laura: Drop the mic.

Kat: Yeah, absolutely.

Micah: See ya, guys.

Kat: You’re the best. Bye, Micah… no. [laughs]

Caleb: I don’t know why I never heard of that before?

Kat: I’d never heard that theory, either.

Caleb: Damn.

Kat: Wow. Mind blown.

Caleb: I guess you could argue that he could be an enemy of Barty Crouch Jr. but still have bad intentions, but…

Kat: Or… you could argue that he might have been an enemy of Moody, because Moody still thinks Snape is bad and therefore…

Laura: But that would make Dumbledore and McGonagall…

Kat: … Moody…

Caleb: The other two aren’t Moody’s enemies, though.

Kat: That’s true.

Caleb: But that’s an awesome… wow. Nice.

Laura: Or maybe everyone is an enemy to Moody?

Kat: Maybe?

Caleb: No.

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: Hmm.

Kat: It’s funny because I actually wanted to bring up a line in this part too.

Caleb: Yup.

Kat: It’s at the end of Moody’s little speech…

Caleb: Mhm.

Kat: … where he’s talking about how the Dark Lord didn’t manage to kill him…

Caleb: Uh-huh.

Kat: … and he says, “I gave him to you – the thing he needed above all to regenerate – and then I killed you for him. I will be honored beyond all other Death Eaters; I will be his dearest, his closest supporter… closer than a son…” And I just thought that was really funny because I think he’s a little delusional if he thinks… he obviously thinks that Voldemort cares about him.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: A lot! Way more than just a follower.

Laura: To say more than a son, yeah, I think that’s like how Bellatrix acts where to her… she’s delusional in the sense where she’s… Voldemort is not just… her… she’s not just close to him and she has… am I wrong in saying she seems him like a lover without actually being it? She’s obsessive with him in that regard…

Kat: There’s a lot of theories that…

Caleb: Yeah…

Kat: … they’ve… you know…

Laura: Yeah… [laughs] well… even if that’s not the case, but there’s still some closer connection, but no matter what that is, that’s all Bellatrix. He doesn’t actually really…

Kat: Right.

Laura: … care that deeply in the sense… in the same way that… while yes, if Barty Crouch Jr. did all this Voldemort would be, “Yeah, go Barty Crouch,” but he’s not at all “love him like a son.”

Kat: Right.

Caleb: Yeah. And as you bring that up Kat, you can… he doesn’t even stop there, he continues to compare himself to Voldemort. He talks about how similar they are in their past and now their present. He mentions how they both have very disappointing fathers. They both suffered the indignity of being named after those fathers and both had the pleasure of killing those fathers.

Kat: Psycho.

Caleb: So that is… make sure I’m not getting my chapters backwards. That is where we first learn… well no, he spills the details more later but that is where we find out for sure…

Kat: He’s dead.

Caleb: … that he killed his dad and that Crouch Sr. is dead.

Kat: Well, actually no, we don’t know because he’s still Moody, right?

Laura: We don’t know that he’s Crouch yet, yeah.

Caleb: Oh true, we don’t… you’re right. My bad. You’re right. Okay. And just before Crouch Jr., Moody-Crouch still… he’s about to kill Harry he’s done with his little super villain speech.

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: Then the door gets blasted open by Stupefy, which I find an interesting choice. Shouldn’t he use like Confundo, the Blasting Curse, to blast down the door.

Laura: Yeah.

Caleb: Stupefy is such an interesting spell.

Laura: Stupefy.

Caleb: Expelliarmus too.

Laura: Can’t they just use Alohomora for that matter?

Caleb: Yeah, be classy about it.

Kat: I think they were trying to use the compound motion of the door to also like… I don’t know, that’s why I assume they used Stupefy.

Laura: Wizards, so dramatic.

Caleb: Anyway, Dumbledore, McGonagall, and Snape show up and there’s this awesome passage. It’s one of my favorites of this book.

Kat: Mhm.

Caleb: When Harry first sees Dumbledore. It says, “At the moment, Harry fully understood for the first time why people said Dumbledore was the only wizard Voldemort had ever feared. The look upon Dumbledore’s face as he stared down at the unconscious form of Mad-Eye Moody was more terrible than Harry could have ever imagined. There was no benign smile upon Dumbledore’s face, no twinkle in the eyes behind the spectacles. There was cold fury in every line of the ancient face; a sense of power radiated from Dumbledore as though he were giving off burning heat.”

Micah: Like a phoenix.

Kat: That’s good.

Laura: Yes.

Caleb: That’s the first time…

Laura: That’s really the first time we see that, yeah.

Laura: Awesome.

Kat: It’s very like a phoenix on a burning day, right.

Caleb: Yeah, totally.

Laura: It’s also like just… well…

Kat: Badass?

Laura: Well, no, I was just going to say like a phoenix on a burning day wouldn’t really work because that’s like the most weakest point, right?

Kat: Well, I mean.

Laura: Cool analogy anyway. [laughs] Anyway, moving on. I was more saying that I think that passage is a necessary set up to what’s to come in the next book of setting him up as someone who’s going to be powerful and going to battle Voldemort basically one on one. We get that more as a set-up as we go on. But a passage like this, makes us stop looking at Dumbledore as someone who’s yes, powerful, but at the same time we kind of think, like, old man. Like gentle old man.

Caleb: That’s kind of [unintelligible].

Kat: You know what I just noticed too?

Caleb: Hmm?

Kat: I’m jumping ahead just one paragraph. They’re in the office and it says that Snape follows Dumbledore, looks into the Foe-Glass where he sees his own face is still visible, you know?

Caleb: Hmm, yeah? Drawing another piece of attention to it.

Kat: It’s supports my own argument.

Micah: What that Snape’s his own worst enemy?

Caleb: Oh wait, what?

Kat: No, that the Foe-Glass is for one person because if you “look into it to see your enemy” when Snape looks into it, it changes.

Micah: Oh yeah, it’s definitely Barty Crouch’s because Harry looks into it, he sees all three of them and they’re not his enemies.

Kat: Yeah.

Caleb: Oh, so you’re saying that this Foe-Glass doesn’t even belong to the real Moody but to Crouch Jr.

Kat: No.

Caleb: Well, they’re about Barty Crouch Jr.’s enemies, though.

Micah: I think it is possessive, though.

Kat: Right?

Micah: Or I think you can change it such that…

Kat: Yeah.

Micah: … it works in your favor because it’s clearly how Barty Crouch was using it to keep himself safe.

Kat: Yeah. I don’t think it’s an on-demand object. Like I couldn’t walk up to it, look, and see my enemies, step away, and have somebody else walk up to it, look, and see their enemies.

Laura: So maybe it’s more like the wands…

Caleb: So you think that there’s spell work involved?

Kat: Possibly.

Laura: Oh, so maybe it is more like the wands, then. It is possessive, but to the point where, I guess, it does have to be one, maybe like one of you had said.

Caleb: Hmm.

Laura: Because technically, Crouch bested Moody.

Caleb: That makes sense.

Kat: That’s true. Or maybe it’s just the longer you live with it, like it has to get to know you? I don’t know.

Caleb: Yeah, that’s fair. I buy that.

Laura: You have to bond.

Kat: You have to court the Foe-Glass…

[Laura laughs]

Kat: … take it out to a nice French dinner. I don’t know.

Caleb: Oh.

Micah: I still stand by my argument from earlier, about demonstrating that Snape is good.

Caleb: Yeah, no, totally.

Kat: So then why is he seeing himself?

Micah: Just because he’s seeing himself.

Caleb: Well, he’s seeing…

Micah: Just like Harry saw the three of them.

Caleb: Yeah. Yeah, so he’s seeing himself because he was the enemy of Barty Crouch Jr. It’s like adding further emphasis on that fact.

Kat: Sure. Okay.

Caleb: Yeah. So the Stupefy that blasted through the door did knock Moody-Crouch out, so I guess that’s why they use Stupefy. And Stupefy is just an all-purpose spell. Anyway, that’s annoying to me. McGonagall wants Harry to go to the hospital wing, but Dumbledore is very firm in that Harry needs to see who did this to him because, “Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with acceptance can there be recovery.” So he’s continuing this streak of being very fierce, very hard, and not letting Harry back away from this moment.

Micah: Very Obi Wan.

Laura: It’s also one of the first times Dumbledore starts being a bit more truthful.

Caleb:Yeah. I like that analogy. Obi Wan. Yeah, that’s very real.

Micah: What I didn’t really understand, though, is why did Dumbledore let him leave in the first place? He knew something was off, but yet he still lets Harry leave.

Caleb: Right.

Micah: Meanwhile, at that point, he would have been surrounded by so many other people who would have – could have protected Harry if Moody decided to fight back in some way.

Kat: I think that…

Laura: Well, did Moody actually get the permission, or did he kind of just sneak off in the chaos?

Kat: I think the latter.

Caleb: More the latter.

Laura: I think Dumbledore truly was absorbed in the chaos and then not much time passed, that I don’t necessarily also know where he brought him that it probably took that amount of time to move Diggory away and then be like, “Crap, where’d Harry go? Crap, this is all Moody’s fault. We should go do something about that.”

Kat: Right. I concur.

Micah: But Dumbledore does specifically tell Harry to stay.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: He does. That’s true.

Laura: Yeah.

Caleb: So Dumbledore then tells Harry that it is not Moody. Like we were just discussing, he knew that this was not the real Moody whenever Harry was taken away because the real Moody would have never done that. He then tells Snape to go get his strongest truth potion and Winky. He tells McGonagall to get a very large black dog that is waiting, I think he says outside Hagrid’s hut. We obviously know this is Sirius. And to go to his office. I think it’s really interesting that even though the narration is that if they were having many doubts themselves, Snape and McGonagall immediately comply. They don’t question his orders. They just go and do it. And then Dumbledore starts to open Moody’s really impressive trunk. We find out that in the first level there are spell books, in the second level there are Sneakoscopes, some parchment and quills, and what looked like a silver invisibility cloak. And then eventually he gets to the seventh level in which Moody… the real Moody is down there with his leg missing, his eye missing, chunks of hair missing… altogether pretty bad shape.

Kat: So is this trunk just an Undetectable Extension Charm with a trunk inside a trunk inside a trunk?

Caleb: Yeah, I think that it’s something like that.

Laura: Yeah. It’s probably a bit more involved. There’s probably actual technology involved versus just a spell…

Caleb: I don’t know if there’s technology because then it wouldn’t work at Hogwarts.

Kat: Yeah, I was going to say.

Laura: I mean technology as the term meaning someone made this, not just took a trunk and then did an extension charm. I think this is probably an object that is sold in the wizarding world…

Caleb: Oh, yeah.

Laura: … not like science, I’m saying, tool-wise.

Caleb: Got you. Dumbledore climbs in to help Moody get out, and then Dumbledore explains the Polyjuice Potion and the hip flask, so we find out that is what has been going on all along. And then he mentions that because everything was going on today so much, he bets that Crouch has not been drinking the potion religiously like he had been in the past.

Kat: Every hour on the hour, which contradicts everything she told us about Polyjuice Potion on Pottermore, but whatever.

Caleb: Right. Yeah, that’s true.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: So…

Caleb: The Polyjuice Potion does wear off, and finally we see Barty Crouch Jr., and of course Harry recognizes him from going back to Dumbledore’s Pensieve. So that memory suddenly becomes very important.

Kat: I think – I’m sorry – the scene where he’s regrowing the leg…

Caleb: Yeah, that’s what I was just…

Kat: … every time I read that I’m a little grossed out and a little like, “Wow, that’s really cool,” at the same time.

Caleb: Yeah, I thought about that because… possible awkward noises when the wooden leg and the eye pop out.

Kat: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I like the visual of the eye… [makes eyeball noises] floating around the room. I don’t know.

[Caleb makes spinning eyeball noises]

Kat: I think of the movie. The movie, obviously, did this scene really well.

Caleb: And then it’s Crouch Jr. The weasel.

Kat: Little Crouch! Little Crouch!

Caleb: Yeah. And then Winky, all of a sudden, shows up and throws herself at Barty thinking that they have killed him, and, of course, she is loyal as ever, which is a little sad.

Kat: She needs to sort out her priorities.

Caleb: Yeah.

Micah: She’s drunk, too.

Caleb: Always.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: Always, yeah. Wait, drunk, too?

Micah: Yeah.

Laura: Everyone’s a little buzzed.

Micah: McGonagall is always drunk.

Caleb: Yes. My homegirl. That’s why.

Kat: Don’t start rumors.

[Caleb laughs]

Micah: Who said they’re rumors?

Caleb: That’s one I can get on board with.

Micah: Exactly.

Laura: They were at a sporting event… where they could see nothing.

Kat: What does that mean? They weren’t at a… that’s not technically a sporting event.

Caleb: The Triwizard Tournament?

Kat: Yeah.

Caleb: Yeah, it is for them.

Micah: It was an early version of the Hunger Games.

Laura: It’s like the Olympics.

Caleb: All of their sporting events have a level of… yeah.

Kat: They were just sitting there staring at a maze. How is that a sporting event?

Micah: It’s just like NASCAR.

Laura: Well, whether it’s fun for them…

Caleb: It’s like NASCAR.

Laura: … clearly they think it’s really fun, so…

Micah: I mean, if you can stare and watch cars drive around in a circle for 150 laps, then what’s the difference in watching people running around the maze?

Laura: You can’t see them running around in the maze…

Kat: I don’t watch NASCAR.

Micah: I don’t watch NASCAR either.

Caleb: Some of our listeners probably do.

Micah: They definitely do. Oh, you’re going to get so many emails.

[Kat laughs]

Caleb: Yeah. So Dumbledore gives Crouch the Veritaserum, wakes him up, and then the questions begin, and there’s a major information drop for 43,000 pages.

Micah: That’s a lot. I didn’t read that many pages.

Kat: That’s… yeah, wow.

Caleb: I didn’t either. It’s not that many pages.

Laura: He isn’t well-prepared.

Caleb: I lied, but it feels like that.

Kat: It does.

Caleb: So we’ll move through this relatively quickly. There is an escape from Azkaban. Barty Crouch Jr., Little Crouch, talks about how his mother was dying. We don’t really know how she was dying, but she was conveniently dying, and she switched places with him using the Polyjuice Potion. Everyone uses Polyjuice. It’s so convenient.

Laura: So easy to make.

Caleb: What I want to know is how she was able to actually convince Papa Crouch to allow this to happen.

Kat: Yeah!

Micah: Seduction.

Caleb: She says that it’s as a last favor but… yeah. While she was dying…

Laura: Yeah, I mean, it’s hard to give him that humanity…

Kat: Mmm.

Laura: … but it’s his wife’s dying wish related to their dying son… otherwise… so…

Caleb: And I guess he thought that he would be able to control him in their house, so…

Kat: That seems like a poor choice.

Caleb: Oh, it definitely was!

Laura: Clearly!

Kat: I mean, we know Sr. is not the sanest person but…

Laura: Maybe it was for public face. He was like, “Yeah, I’m going to put my own son in Azkaban,” but as a father he was bothered by the fact that he put his own son in Azkaban? Maybe that’s it? And after much convincing – it was his wife’s dying wish – he was like, “All right, I’m going to bring my son back and put him under house arrest pretty much, and yet the public is still going to think that yes, I don’t make exceptions for my son,” so he doesn’t lose any cred, potentially.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: Yeah.

Caleb: Then Little Crouch describes how it was relatively easy to do it because Dementors are blind so they didn’t notice the difference of them escaping. And we have an Audioboo about…

Micah: Audioboo?

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: Yeah, with a question about this section, right?

Caleb: Yes, talking about what happened to Mrs. Crouch after she was dead regarding the Polyjuice Potion so I’ll play that now.

[Audio]: Hey, everybody, it’s Ellen Dawn. I have a bit of a question/comment on the upcoming chapter, number 35: “Veritaserum.” So when Little Crouch is discussing how he escaped Azkaban, he says that after the switch his mother was very careful to take Polyjuice Potion up until the end, and that “she was buried under my name and bearing my appearance.” So when you die in the appearance of another, under the effects of Polyjuice Potion, do you stay in that form forever? I was always under the impression that you would still change back to your own appearance after the hour was up even if you died. But that would imply that they would have had to bury her within an hour of her death, which seems like an efficient funeral, even for Dementors! I’m wondering what you guys think. Cheers!

Micah: But wasn’t it said that it was a small service? I feel like there are ways to get around this even if it had to be done within an hour.

Kat: The small service is for the fake mother… the empty coffin.

Laura: Oh, so you’re thinking they buried her and then buried an empty coffin at the funeral?

Kat: That’s exactly what they say they did.

Laura: Oh, okay.

Kat: This question is referring to the mother’s death, the actual mother’s death…

Caleb: Well, what happened to the body?

Kat: What?

Caleb: What would happen to her body once the Polyjuice Potion time runs out?

Kat: Right, exactly.

Caleb: If she would remain in the form of Barty Crouch Jr. or if she would return to her normal self?

Laura: I would think she’d return to her normal self. I would think they would almost need to give her the Polyjuice Potion intravenously in order for that to still happen.

Kat: Yeah, otherwise, or like the clip is saying, they would have had to bury her within the hour.

Laura: Which is reasonable, considering that the Dementors… she’s saying yeah, they have to be efficient Dementors but honestly there’s a lot of them. They could make a few scoops in the dirt and that’s it. They don’t care.

Kat: Or because the Dementors are blind, maybe the Dementors are the ones that do the burying and it wouldn’t have mattered if the Polyjuice had worn off.

Caleb and Micah: Yeah.

Micah: That’s a good point.

Laura: It’s true.

Micah: It could’ve just been an at sea burial.

Caleb: Mhm.

Micah: Just throw them right out into the ocean.

[Kat and Laura laugh]

Caleb: Yeah. Mhm.

Laura: It’s true. They are in the middle of the ocean.

Caleb: Yeah, I know.

Kat: That’s true. Yeah, where else are they going to bury people, I suppose, right?

Micah: What I want to ask is how the hell is everybody getting out of Azkaban?

Caleb: That’s true.

Micah: It’s supposed to be this impenetrable place.

Caleb: Yeah, it’s always built up as the modern day – not the modern day…

[Kat laughs]

Caleb: … but the wizard version of Alcatraz. But then again I guess that’s all we hear about Alcatraz is…

Kat: People escaping.

Caleb: People escaping, yeah. Hmm.

Kat: Just the slippery few, I suppose.

Micah: I bet there’s other stories.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: Probably.

Caleb: Yeah. That’s one of my favorite old movies, Escape from Alcatraz.

Micah: Thanks for sharing.

Caleb: Anyway. You’re welcome.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: I don’t think I’ve seen that one.

Caleb: It’s really good. So… right, so we talked… okay, so they had the fake death and funeral for Barty’s mom. Then his dad, Barty Crouch Sr., controls him in their home. He uses the Imperius Curse and he’s hidden under an invisibility cloak with… he’s controlled with spells until he was able to finally break free himself. We know that Little Crouch is a very capable wizard so we’re not surprised that he’s able to do this and he immediately returns to Voldemort’s service. And then…

Laura: Wait, I have a question… so Barty Crouch Sr. knew that he was gone and clearly then knew fully that he was on the run and stuff?

Caleb: Yeah, so we get to that in just a second.

Laura: Okay.

Caleb: Yeah.

Laura: Wait, was he under the invisibility stuff for years?

Kat: Yeah.

Caleb: Seems like it, yeah.

Kat: Yeah, the only time he was found out is when Bertha Jorkins came over to the house and heard Winky talking to Jr. and she figured it out and then confronted Sr.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: And he wiped her memory and basically screwed her up.

Caleb: Mhm.

Kat: Which made her vulnerable to Voldemort.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: So thank you, Barty Crouch Sr., for killing Cedric Diggory.

Caleb: Yeah, exactly. So that was the…

Laura: And making Voldemort come back to life.

Kat: Eh, whatever, that was inevitable.

Caleb: Right, so that was the next major info drop; it was about Bertha Jorkins that Kat just mentioned. And then we find out that Winky convinced Barty Crouch Sr. to allow Little Crouch to go to the World Cup because he’s been cooped up for so long…

Laura: It’s a terrible idea.

Caleb: … Barty Crouch making more bad choices regarding his son and so that is why Winky has an empty seat next to her in the top box at the World Cup even though she says…

Micah: How does Winky have so much pull?

Kat: Right, that was my next question. She’s not a good house-elf, and I know people are going to give me crap for that, but…

Caleb: No, she’s absolutely not. Yeah, I mean, there’s obviously going to be good and bad but she is not. No.

Micah: She’s a wino.

Caleb: That’s true.

Kat: Yeah, and as Micah said, how is she able to convince Barty Crouch Sr. to let them take their delusional kid to the World Cup?

Laura: Because let’s just pretend the actual conversation… Winky: “Oh, Master, can he go?” “No.” End of conversation because that’s like a command.

Caleb: The only thing I can think of is because Barty Crouch is probably in a very emotionally vulnerable place.

[Kat laughs]

Caleb: I mean, his wife has recently died. He’s constantly got to be at inner turmoil about what’s going on with his son so he’s probably not at as good of a resolve as he would have been previously.

Kat: That implies that he has emotions.

Caleb: Yeah, well…

Laura: How much time has passed? I think that’s where I’m confused.

Caleb: I don’t know.

Kat: Between what and what?

Laura: Between the whole mother dying, Barty Crouch being switched, and present time.

Caleb: I would say several years.

Laura: Yeah, okay.

Caleb: At least.

Laura: That’s what I thought.

Micah: But I almost wonder…

Laura: I would think he would’ve adapted by now.

Micah: Maybe. I just wonder, though…

Caleb: Maybe so.

Micah: … did Barty Crouch Jr., even though it’s not explicitly stated in the chapter, did he have any sway in terms of Winky suggesting this and then finally being able to convince his father to let him go to the Quidditch World Cup?

Caleb: Yeah, I would totally buy that.

Kat: Mhm.

Laura: Yeah, I mean, he could’ve commanded Winky to convince him, and then, I guess, Winky would’ve had to keep going until…

Caleb: I think it would’ve been more likely…

Laura: That’s the problem with having two masters because if they have conflicting orders, what happens? Do they just implode?

Caleb: I don’t think she would’ve been using… I don’t think he would have been controlling her. I think he would much be more prone to trying to convince her himself.

Kat: Yeah, I agree.

Caleb: Power of persuasion.

Micah: Yeah, because he’s using Barty Crouch Sr.’s dead wife to basically… yeah.

Kat: His mother, yes.

Micah: It’s…

Caleb: Right.

Micah: … pretty sick.

Caleb: It is. So at the World Cup, obviously Barty Crouch Jr. is still under the Imperius Curse, but he’s able to fight it off, and then he talks about how he steals Harry’s wand. So we remembers how Harry’s wand goes missing at the World Cup and he stole the wand with the intention of attacking those Death Eaters who were wearing their masks, had the Muggles up in the air and were making a big show because he thought those Death Eaters beneath him because they were not as loyal as he was to Voldemort. But Winky used her magic, her house-elf magic, which this is pretty impressive. She binds Little Crouch to her so that he’s not able to go attack them. So as a last resort, Barty Crouch Jr. shoots the Dark Mark as a last-ditch effort. He makes it seem like this is also, in a way, to punish those other Death Eaters, but he shoots the Dark Mark into the sky. And then, the Ministry, when they fire off their stunners, it hits them both, both Little Crouch and Winky.

Kat: Right, and the bond is broken, so that’s how it… yeah.

Caleb: Right. Exactly. So then, that event passes and then, we find out that Voldemort shows up at Crouch’s home because he has learned that Little Crouch is out and he is ready to serve him again.

Kat: How did he learn that?

Caleb: That’s what I was just thinking and I feel like it says it in the chapter, but I can’t remember offhand.

Laura: How did he learn what?

Caleb: That Crouch was out.

Micah: Bertha Jorkins.

Kat: Oh, that’s right.

Caleb: Bertha Jorkins, right. Yeah. That’s what it was.

Kat: Bertha Jorkins.

Caleb: Right, so Voldemort shows up at Crouch’s house with… he’s in Pettigrew’s arms, which, what a little cute moment. Ding-dong, look who’s here!

[Kat laughs]

Laura: It’s a boy!

Kat: It’s a boy! [laughs] Nice. Gross.

Caleb: [laughs] Right, so yeah, I had it written here that that Voldemort had learned from Bertha Jorkins about the tournament, about the upcoming Triwizard Tournament, how Moody was coming to teach there, and Little Crouch’s escape. Then we learn of the plan to Polyjuice Moody and turn the cup into a Portkey. And we also… Barty Crouch reveals how he apprehended him, how he kept him alive the whole time so that he could use his hair for the Polyjuice, and how he stole ingredients, and how he passed that off. And the last bit of revelation is Voldemort kept Barty Crouch Sr. under the Imperius at his house. So Voldemort was using the Crouch’s home as his HQ for a while. But Barty Crouch Sr. eventually escaped. So it seems like the family’s pretty good at fighting off the Imperius Curse.

Kat: Yeah, and I just realized that Voldemort really likes to use his followers’ houses as…

Caleb: Right.

Kat: … headquarters.

Laura: It’s a squatter.

Caleb: So then we know that…

Kat: It’s a little weird.

Caleb: Yeah, it is. When Barty Crouch escaped, that is when Harry saw him coming out of the forest like a madman. And then, Barty Crouch Jr. was ordered to take care of him, to kill him. So he also remarks that Harry would see him as the same name of his father on the map. We talked about that at length earlier in this book, how they would show up on the Map. So it seemingly would be “Bartemius Crouch,” just like his father. There’s no “Jr.”ù or “Sr.” And then he…

Kat: Which still bothers me.

Micah: It should designate…

Caleb: I agree. Yeah, it does.

Kat: It definitely should. Like… I don’t know.

Caleb: But then Little Crouch reveals how he killed his father. He transfigured his body into a bone. He said, “I buried it while wearing the Invisibility Cloak in the freshly dug earth in front of Hagrid’s cabin.”

Kat: That is so gross!

Caleb: And then, what is not in the book is that Fang dug it up and…

Kat: [laughs] What? Come on!

Micah: I was just going to say that.

[Caleb laughs]

Kat: Of course you were.

Micah: Caleb’s starting thinking like me.

Kat: Caleb, come back to the light side. [laughs]

Caleb: [laughs] Guilty. But that’s so rough, the body’s just…

Kat: That is…

Caleb: … reduced to a bone.

Kat: It is the harshest… I mean, there’s a lot of gruesome deaths. That’s harsh.

Micah: There’s some family issues going on here, too.

Caleb: There are.

Micah: A lot.

Kat: Damn.

Caleb: So that was a major info-dump, but we figure out everything that… we get all of our answers that you have from the first, to all the questions you have the first time you read this book and the book is a full set of questions through the whole thing and it just all comes in one chapter.

Kat: What does…

Laura: It’s the most circular contained story as far as – I mean, obviously not – but as far as stuff that’s set up in the beginning, it’s so foreshadowy, the whole book – we’ve always said this – and this is pretty much where it all comes together.

Kat: And I like, too, that several times when Winky talks, it’s very clear that she didn’t even know the full story.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: Because she’s like, “Wait, what? What are you saying? Oh my God, you killed your father?”

Caleb: Mhm. Yeah.

Kat: And, “Stop talking, this can’t be true.”

Micah: Yeah.

Kat: I don’t know.

Caleb: “Is this real life?”

Laura: Would she still be obligated to be Barty Crouch Jr.’s servant if Barty Crouch Sr. is dead by the hands of Barty Crouch Jr.?

Kat: Well, she was released from the family regardless, so…

Laura: Right, pretend that didn’t happen.

Kat: Then yeah.

Laura: Yeah?

Kat: I would assume so.

Laura: Bummer.

Caleb: Hmm.

Micah: There’s just so much messed-up stuff that goes on that we learn about in this chapter. I mean, the fact that a father not only allowed his son to escape, or assisted in his escape, but then took him back to his home for several years and kept him under a curse, it’s almost abusive.

Kat: And also basically agreed to murder his wife.

Caleb: Right.

Kat: Basically, I mean…

Caleb: Let’s be real for a second. Maybe it was better for Barty Crouch Sr. that he’s no longer in this world…

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: … because he had some problems. Maybe he’s at peace now.

Laura: I mean… [laughs] Sure?

Kat: I hope so.

Micah: Well, he’s a bone. Or is he? Fang got to him, so who knows what’s left?

[Kat laughs]

Caleb: I don’t know. Fang may be done with him. That’s a big dog.

Kat: That is a big dog.

[Caleb laughs]

Micah: He’s back in the earth, but not in the way we thought. But…

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: Whoops.

Micah: What? But no, the other thing I was just going to say is that, I forget what we were talking about before. Somebody mentioned the fact that Barty Crouch Jr. was almost projecting onto Harry.

Kat: Mhm.

Micah: And I thought a little bit about the parallels, the fact that his mother really chooses to save him much like Harry’s mother chooses to save him. So I thought there was a little bit of similarity between the two there as well.

Kat: Mhm.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: I would agree. I’ve always thought they had some weird intrinsic link, like mutual something for each other. I’m not sure of what exactly, but…

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: And we’ve said this before and I’ve said this before that I feel like Barty Crouch saw a lot of himself in Harry…

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: … and vice-versa, so…

Caleb: Why else actively teach him how to fight off the Unforgiveables?

Kat: Right, exactly. And two, I was just reading the last couple paragraphs of the chapter and thinking about Barty Crouch Jr. keeps saying that he’ll be honored beyond his dreams, beyond his wildest dreams of any wizard. I’m curious what he thinks that is.

Caleb: Yeah.

Laura: I think, honestly, that would more… just, I think he’s expecting if Voldemort rises to power successfully, I think he’s seeing himself as the second-hand man in all of power control of all of the wizarding world.

Caleb: We thought of this same question when we were doing the chapter on the graveyard where the Death Eaters show up and Voldemort mentions those who were still loyal to him who were stuck in Azkaban and he mentions they will be rewarded on the most high or something like that. It’s a similar kind of thing. And that was from Voldemort’s mouth.

Kat: Right.

Laura: Yeah, I think it’s pretty much just ensuring them these high places in society in the same way at the end of Deathly Hallows when Voldemort says to the general public, “Anyone that comes to my side’s going to be rewarded, is pretty much rewarded by not being killed when I take over.”

Caleb: Yeah. He doesn’t really intend to…

Laura: I think that’s what it pretty much comes down to.

Caleb: Yeah.

Micah: Hmm.

Kat: All right, fair enough.

Micah: It’s weird, though, how it comes full circle, though, as well with the whole Polyjuice with Barty Crouch Jr. and his mother and Barty Crouch Sr. being in power and using the Imperius Curse. And then, Barty Crouch Sr. is under the Imperius Curse and Barty Crouch Jr. goes and uses Polyjuice yet again, but this time to become Mad-Eye.

Caleb: Yeah.

Micah: J.K. Rowling is just… I don’t know what the word is. Yeah.

Kat: Genius?

Micah: I still don’t follow her on Twitter, though.

[Kat laughs]

Caleb: Whoops.

Kat: Fair enough. No, just I… reading this chapter, I guess – and I know we’ve talked about this before too – it really does show even more the links to Chamber and Half-Blood just in this chapter alone with all the references, obviously, to Polyjuice and things of that nature.

Micah: Yup.

Caleb: Mhm.

Micah: One other thing I was going to add before – I’m assuming we’re wrapping this up – but how close Arthur Weasley came to really being in a lot danger.

Kat: A lot. Very close.

Micah: You don’t realize… I mean, he probably could have been killed.

Kat: Hmm.

Caleb: Oh, okay, yeah. I’m with you.

Micah: You didn’t know what I was talking about?

Caleb: Well, I was confused at what point you were referring to. Okay.

Micah: No, I meant when he went to Mad-Eye’s.

Caleb: Right. Yup.

Kat: Well, I mean, we know that Jo considered killing Arthur at one point. So that might have been his… everybody has one of those moments, like a hint…

Caleb: Mhm.

Micah: Right.

Kat: … of the death. Maybe that would have been his.

Micah: Could have been.

Kat: One of his. Who knows? It was a good chapter.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: I can’t believe… my God, I can’t believe…

Caleb: It wraps up with Winky wailing over the news of her master, Barty Crouch Sr. being dead.

Kat: … we have two chapters left in this book?

Caleb: No… yeah, we do.

Micah: Oh, so I guess I’m not coming back before the book is over, huh? That’s all right.

[Caleb laughs]

Kat: Probably not, man. Sorry. Guess what, we still have three whole books, so…

Caleb: And the next one is the longest!

Kat: Yes, yes it is. And my favorite. I’m beyond excited. What’s your favorite book, Micah?

Micah: Prisoner of Azkaban.

Laura: Prisoner, right? Yeah.

Caleb: Sweet.

Laura: It’s all downhill from here then for you.

Micah: Yeah.

[Laura laughs]

Micah: But I’m happy to come back if you guys want me to come back.

Kat: We’ll leave that up to the iTunes reviews. Just kidding.

[Micah laughs]

Caleb: What is it you guys say on Game of Owns? That’s just a February thing, though. Or do you say it every month?

Micah: Every month.

Caleb: Nothing short of five stars…

Micah: Nothing less than five stars is acceptable in the month of March.

[Caleb laughs]

Micah: So now you’ll all get five-star… [coughs] sorry, five-star reviews.

Laura: Are you okay? So, for this Podcast Question of the Week, I kind of want to play Devil’s Advocate a bit and say, let’s say by some miracle Cedric Diggory had hidden properly or listened to Harry or was somehow spared by Voldemort. No matter what, he just survived the whole ordeal and Portkeyed back to Harry alive rather than dead. How would this whole scene have played out differently? Would Cedric be as famous as Harry moving forward in the story? Would Moody have been caught without the whole trauma aspect of the event where he was able to pull Harry away? Would everyone have believed them if there wasn’t a dead body as proof that something bad had happened? So just basically, speculate what you think would have happened if Cedric came back alive.

Kat: It’s a good what-if question.

Laura: Yeah.

Micah: He would become a vampire.

Laura Poor Cedric.

Kat: Ha! TouchÈ.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: But that… I mean, he would have to die for that to happen, though.

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: Right. And we do want to say a big thank you to Micah for joining us again for this episode.

Micah: Anytime. Like I said, it’s always a lot of fun to come back and podcast, especially as a guest host. There’s no limitations, which is always fun.

[Caleb laughs]

Laura: You don’t have to prepare anything.

Micah: I read the chapter. I read it on the train ride home.

Kat: Oh, good.

Laura: Did you read all 4300 pages?

[Kat laughs]

Micah: No. Like I said, I did not read all 4300 pages.

[Everyone laughs]

Micah: No, it’s cool to go back and read the series. It’s something that I don’t always get a chance to do. But just kind of sitting there on the train, going through the page on my phone – or going through the book, I should say, on my phone – it brought back a lot of memories. So thanks for that.

Laura: Ooh.

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: What do you have going on right now, with Game of Owns and stuff? Tell our listeners.

Micah: So, for those who are interested in Game of Thrones, I do a podcast – actually with another host on this show, Eric Scull – called Game of Owns. We actually just reached our 200th episode, which is crazy to think about.

Caleb: That’s awesome.

Kat: Oh my God! How did you surpass us already?

Laura: How did you get there that fast?

Kat: You do three a week, right?

Caleb: They do three episodes a week.

Micah: We do on average three episodes a week, and we talk about both the television series as well as the Song of Ice and Fire series. We are getting very close to Season 4.

Caleb: So close. Hey, when we’re recording this, it’s exactly a month away.

Micah: You’re right. April 6 is the premiere.

Kat: OMG.

Caleb: Yeah!

Micah: So we encourage you, if you are interested in other fantasy novels and series, to give us a listen. A lot of familiar voices, and we just have fun with it. We’ll… yeah. So, on that note… I don’t know what else to say about the show.

[Kat, Laura, and Micah laugh]

Micah: We’re the official podcast of, which is in a way the MuggleNet of the Game of Thrones universe. And so all of our episodes get posted up there, as well as iTunes, and we’re on all forms of social media – Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, as well as So I think I’ve done enough shameless plugging.

[Caleb laughs]

Micah: We’ll be at two conventions this summer – Indy PopCon in Indianapolis on Memorial Day weekend, and then at LeakyCon as well. So we’re looking forward… I’m sure a lot of your listeners will be at LeakyCon as well.

Caleb: Mhm.

Kat: We hope so.

Laura: So if you would like to be on the show like Micah, head over to the website and check out the “Be on the Show” page at You just need to have… no fancy equipment, just even a set of Apple headphones that have a microphone in them. No matter, you’re all set, no matter what the equipment is.

Kat: And if you want to keep in touch with us in the meantime, you can find us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN,, on Tumblr at mnalohomorapodcast, of course, on our phone number at (206) GO-ALBUS – that’s (206) 462-5287 – as we mentioned, iTunes, many times. Go on and leave us a review, positive…

Micah: Nothing less than five stars is acceptable.

Kat: … is preferable, of course. Right, exactly.

[Caleb laughs]

Kat: And of course, follow us on Snapchat. We have our awesome – awesome, awesome, awesome – Snapchat artist, Michael, working on it for us, and we are at mn_alohomora. And again, our AudioBoo, which you heard on this episode, go directly to All you need is an Internet connection and a microphone. It’s completely free, so leave us a message and you might hear yourself on the show.

Laura: And also be sure to check out our store. Check out T-shirts – we have short and now long sleeve because it’s still chilly, at least where I am – tote bags, sweatshirts, flip-flops, water bottles, travel mugs. It’ll be time to wear those flip-flops soon.

[Kat laughs]

Laura: So get them before they’re gone.

Micah: Don’t you give out some of this stuff to guest hosts?

Laura: Did you not get your flip-flops?

Kat: Do you want a pair?

Micah: No, I meant… /p>

[Kat and Micah laugh]

Laura: They’re in the mailbox outside.

Caleb: I don’t even get flip-flops.

Micah: I mean, I don’t think I could use flip-flops right now, but maybe a little bit later on in the summer.

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: There we go.

Kat: We’ll get you a pair for LeakyCon. You can wear them during your panel.

Micah: Absolutely.

Laura: Oh my God, we should all do that.

[Kat laughs]

Micah: Do they say Alohomora! on the bottom, though, so people can…?

[Laura laughs]

Kat: No, the part that you step on, not the part that you walk on.

Micah: Mmm.

Laura: Well, if the flip-flops don’t suit you, there’s eighty products – over eighty products…

Micah: What do you sell?

Laura: … to choose from.

Micah: I got to go look at this.

[Laura laughs]

Kat: All that stuff that she just listed.

Micah: House-elves? [laughs]

Kat: [laughs] We do not sell house-elves.

Laura: We can put the Alohomora! logo on pretty much any object you ever wanted.

Micah: Do they go into your liquor cabinet?

Caleb: There actually are a couple who have alcohol problems, and they are cheaper to purchase because they come with a handicap.

Laura: They come with emotional baggage.

Kat: We sell little doggy bibs now, like the little doggy bandana thingys.

Laura: She’s not kidding, just to make that clear. [laughs]

Kat: What?

Laura: I said, she’s not kidding, just to make that clear.

Kat: Yeah, I know, I’m not kidding.

Laura: Because it was coming off as a joke.

Micah: I want a travel mug.

[Kat laughs]

Kat: Okay.

Laura: You can get one.

Kat: Yeah, right in the store.

Laura: Five Galleons.

Micah: Five Galleons?

Laura: [laughs] I’m kidding.

Caleb: We also have a really awesome smart phone app that is available seemingly worldwide. Prices vary depending on location. It has things like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much more. And that…

Kat: Like the dirty jokes that we cut out of this episode.

Micah: What are you talking about?

Caleb: Right.

Kat: No, just kidding. [laughs]

Laura: You’re on good behavior today.

Micah: I was. I brought…

Kat: Yeah. You were.

Micah: … insightful conversation.

Kat and Laura: You did.

Caleb: You did actually.

Kat: You get snaps this time. [snaps fingers]

Micah: Nobody’s going to want me back now.

[Laura laughs]

Caleb: And before we reveal anymore of our mass material…

[Show music begins]

Caleb: … we’re going to wrap up this episode of Alohomora! Thanks for listening. I’m Caleb Graves.

Laura: I’m Laura Reilly.

Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 73 of Alohomora!

Micah: Open the Dumbledore.

[Show music continues]

Micah: I will say though, the best part about coming on and doing these shows is that, as a guest host the pressure is really off and I can just really say whatever I want.

[Caleb and Micah laugh]

Micah: And I’m always interested to see what makes the final cut.

Kat: That’s true.

Micah: So good luck, John… is that his name?

Kat: That is. That’s our editor this week. Yeah, John and Patrick. This week is John.

Micah: I wish him much luck in what is to come over the next sixty minutes or so.

Kat: [laughs] I’m sure he’s thanking you from his computer…

Micah: Mhm.

Kat: … as he’s listening.

Caleb: Clip be going here, ‘kay?

Kat: That was nice. Did you practice?

Caleb: No, never.

Micah: What the hell did you just say?

Laura: Just woke up like this.

[Caleb and Kat laugh]

Caleb: Clip be going here, ‘kay.

Micah: I thought his name was John.

Caleb: I didn’t say anything. Awkward.

Micah: Oh, who’s Kay?

Caleb: I wasn’t…

Micah: Oh.

Caleb: No, I was just saying “‘kay” like “okay.”

Laura: This joke gets funnier the more we explain it.

[Caleb laughs]

Kat: I’m eating peanut butter balls. [laughs]

Caleb: Outtake!

Laura: Kat, no chewing!

Kat: Whoops, I’m…

Micah: Yeah, what the hell!

[Prolonged silence]

Micah: Five Galleons?

Laura: Wait, what? [laughs] I’m kidding. Anyway.

Kat: I wonder what the exchange rate would be.

Laura: We also have ringtones.

[Kat and Laura laugh]

Kat: This is the hottest mess ever.

Caleb: Wow.

Kat: Say the ringtones again, Laura.

Laura: [laughs] Okay, we also have ringtones! Is that sufficient? [laughs]

Kat: Ringtones are…

Micah: They are free and available on the website.

Laura: We also have… yup.

Caleb: Thank you.

[Prolonged silence]

Caleb: [laughs] Oh shoot, it’s me. Open the Dumbledore!

Kat: We can have Micah do it.

Caleb: Yeah, let Micah do it.

Micah: What do I need to do? Just say that?

Caleb: Just say “Open the Dumbledore” in a really fun way.

Kat: However you want to say it.

Laura: As provocatively as possible.

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: I don’t know about that.