Transcript – Episode 68
[Show music begins]
Caleb Graves: This is Episode 68 of Alohomora! for February 1, 2014.
[Show music continues]
Caleb: Hey, everyone. Happy February! Welcome to another episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.
Noah Fried: I’m Noah Fried.
Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.
Michael Harle: And I’m Michael Harle.
Caleb: And there is no special guest! It’s just us.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Michael: We’re guest-less.
Kat: Woot-woot! Party.
[Prolonged silence]
Caleb: Man, that was an exciting party.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: Unless there is a ghost guest. We were pausing for the ghost guest.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: The ghost host!
Noah: Actually, you know who should guest the show? Jim the Dementor. Jim the Dementor is the host today.
Caleb: Is he?
Kat: I still can’t believe you made a Twitter account for that.
Noah: I did.
Caleb: There was a point today on my iPhone where… you know how it shows the updates that you missed when your phone is off or whatever or locked? It was just Twitter updates of Noah on his many accounts as Jim, as the Desk!Pig, as Noah. That’s just what filled my iPhone screen.
[Kat laughs]
Kat: I love it. I love the conversations you have with yourself.
Noah: Thank you.
Kat: Man, I love it.
Noah: It’s really a creative outlet, and there’s no better way to do character development than to really embody the characters in this form.
Kat: Sure, sure. I’m taking an acting class and I’ve only had one class, so I haven’t gotten there yet. But maybe someday I’ll help you so you’re not talking to yourself all the time. So we just want to remind everybody listening as usual before we jump into our recap this week, we want to remind you to read Chapter 30, “The Pensieve,” which will be the chapter we are covering on this episode.
Caleb: But before we get to that chapter, we’re going to read some of your comments and responses regarding last week’s episode. And we’re going to start that off with a comment from Honeydukes Empire on the forums. And this is on the topic of Harry’s dream with Voldemort and specifically us talking about his point of view. The comment says,
“I think the fact that Harry isn’t seeing the visions from Voldemort’s point of view right now is because Voldemort hasn’t actually returned to his body yet, and so the Horcrux connection is not strong enough at the moment for Harry to see things from Voldemort’s point of view.”
And extending that comment, Aguamenti on the forums says,
“So it just shows how the Horcrux is using the moments when Harry’s mind is relaxed to take over and try to connect to Voldemort. And since Harry is floating around in that room as part of Voldemort’s soul, it’s quite logical he feels pain when Voldemort is performing the Cruciatus Curse. If you want to do an Unforgivable, you really have to go into the emotion, feel the rage and want to do harm. It’s Voldemort’s rage that’s making Harry’s scar burn at this point, I think, not so much the effect it has on Pettigrew.”
Kat: I actually agree with that – the first comment about how it’s not as strong because he’s not in his body. That’s what I always assumed.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: I like that as an explanation now because I was inclined to agree with those of you who were on last week when you suggested that perhaps it was collateral damage from Rowling not perhaps having the whole Horcrux thing fully developed yet. I think that explanation really works nicely now knowing what we know about how Horcruxes operate. But I still get the sense – it is just the weirdest thing. Harry’s dream implies that he’s miniaturized because he’s on the owl, and then suddenly it’s implied he’s now full-sized because he’s going into the room. Either that or the owl is really, really large.
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Michael: It’s a lot more surreal than most of his Horcrux dreams/experiences are. And again to say that it’s because Voldemort’s body isn’t back yet, I like that explanation. But I still kind of feel like it was…
Kat: An oops.
Michael: … because things hadn’t been fully fleshed out yet.
Noah: Is Nagini a Horcrux yet at this point?
Kat: No.
Noah: So that explains the one angle why it was only… maybe that explains why he wasn’t in the snake yet, or he wasn’t having a first perspective vision.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: Right. Yeah, definitely.
Caleb: All right, the next comment comes on the topic of Dumbledore and Snape talking on the topic of discovering Crouch Sr. And this is from ancientandmostnoble on the forums:
“Snape and Dumbledore did NOT discuss the event. In fact, Snape, who used to be Dumbledore’s trusted right hand man, plays a minor role in the headmaster’s life during this year at Hogwarts. Moody, instead, seems to have replaced Snape’s position…
Snape’s resentment towards Moody (let’s not forget how Snape absolutely hates every new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher), exacerbated perhaps by jealousy of having lost his role as Dumbledore’s adviser, might have been the one factor that allowed Crouch Jr. to get away with his disguise. Let’s for one second remember that crucial Staircase of Lies moment. If Snape had been on good terms with Dumbledore, I think he would have mentioned the fact that crucial Polyjuice ingredients have gone missing from his private supply, and he would have asked for clarification about whether Dumbledore had truly given Moody permission to search his office. Had all these details been relayed to Dumbledore, the headmaster would have been able to realize that there might be something fishy about Moody.”
Kat: Is it implied that Snape isn’t on Dumbledore’s good side in this book?
Caleb: I don’t think that’s what the comment is necessarily saying. I think it’s more that Moody is supplanting Snape with Dumbledore, and that Moody is becoming more of a close advisor than Snape.
Kat: I think that that’s what Dumbledore wants Moody to think. I think that Snape and Dumbledore are as close as ever; we’re just not seeing it. We never really see it, really. But I think especially in this upcoming chapter…
Noah: Actually we do see it. There is a moment where it comes up. I won’t spoil it, but…
Kat: Well, that’s what I’m saying. I think that… I disagree with this comment, I guess is what I’m saying, without getting too far ahead of ourselves.
Michael: Well, this comment’s tough for me because it brings up a point that we’ve endlessly debated, and any new information that Rowling has put out on this seems to just continue the debate. But this comment puts into question just how much Dumbledore is aware of at all times. Because the interesting thing is today I was reading again through Gilderoy Lockhart’s bit on Pottermore since the new audio just came out, and it says that Dumbledore hired Lockhart because he had two friends who Lockhart took memories from, and he thought that that might be the best way to out Lockhart for his crimes. So, he was aware the whole time of what he was doing by hiring Lockhart.
Noah: Wow.
Michael: And there seem to be some other things throughout the series. I know we’ve talked a lot about what things Dumbledore knows already and doesn’t know and doesn’t share with people. And he certainly seems to take pride in not sharing them until it’s revealed to everybody and then later saying, “Oh, I knew all along.”
Kat: [laughs] He does like to do that.
Michael: [laughs] Yes. Which he has acknowledged himself as being a kind of personal flaw. But in regards to this, we do know that they’re sharing stuff with each other because Deathly Hallows reveals that they’re keeping in touch with each other, at least about Karkaroff. But of course Karkaroff is a red herring…
Kat: And even the next chapter – again, Chapter 30 has a lot of hints about the fact that they’re definitely talking to each other, so…
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: … I guess we’ll get there. But I do think that Moody is definitely playing with Dumbledore and Snape and definitely trying to discredit Snape. As he said, the one thing he hates is a Death Eater that walked free.
Caleb: So thank you guys for those responses. There are a lot of great other responses on the forums and the main site. You guys have great discussions going, so thank you for that. And go read the great things other people have to say.
Kat: Because our listeners are the best.
Michael: And our listeners are the best. Yeah, no, that’s true. But before we jump into the chapter discussion for this week, we’re also going to look at the responses you guys gave for the Podcast Question of the Week. Just for review, the actual question was, “We see a bit of prejudice on the part of Fudge with Madame Maxime, and then Hagrid, because of their giant heritage. We may be quick to call him out but is he perhaps a bit justified? Giants allied with Voldemort in the first war, so doesn t it make sense for the Minister of Magic to be cautious and wary about those with giant blood? Or does he have no right to feel so concerned and judgmental?”
Noah: Ooh.
Michael: And we got quite a few comments on this. It raised a lot of passionate discussion on our main site.
Noah: I bet it would.
Kat: I was excited about this question when I was listening, and I was like, “Ooh!” It’s a good question.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: I like it.
Michael: And I was very impressed because the responses not only were very passionate but also very informed and very eloquent. And the first one comes from Archduke Severus, who said,
“I do not think that all of Fudge’s prejudice against giant blood is to do with the giants fighting for Voldemort. A lot of the prejudice would have been around before the first wizarding war. This is part of the reason why the giants were such an effective weapon for Voldemort. The wizarding world would have seen them as a very dangerous race that is violent and destructive, so when they hear that they are allied with Voldemort they would be quite scared. For this reason it is understandable why Fudge would be prejudiced against those with giant blood but not acceptable as he has to remember that they have human blood as well.”
So… and this was kind of the theme of a few comments, that Fudge is coming from a historical perspective on his views.
Caleb: That makes sense.
Kat: I’m wondering… I guess I agree with that when it comes to Hagrid, but Madame Maxime – I know we all assume that she’s a half-giant. Is that confirmed?
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Well, it kind of is in this chapter when we read – later.
Kat: Well, never mind. My point is moot.
[Caleb, Michael, and Noah laugh]
Michael: Well, no, not necessarily. Because quite a few people on the main site brought up along with that – quite a few people mentioned that Hagrid – between the two of them Hagrid would probably be more, perhaps, justified if you didn’t know him very well to assume things based on some of his behavior and his record, which some things falsely accused of. But Maxime is the headmistress of an established wizarding boarding school, one of – what was it, eleven? – in the world. So she’s pretty well known; she has a reputation. So, I think most people were actually surprised that Fudge would jump to that same…
Kat: That’s where I was going with my point. So that’s good.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: I’m glad…
Michael: So it wasn’t moot. It wasn’t moot. But we have another comment from PixieDragon137 who said,
“Fudge’s argument is not totally unreasonable because it is perfectly possible that people who have giant blood are likely to inherit some of the barbaric traits associated with their kind. Although we don’t see this first hand from Madame Maxime, we do see Hagrid react brutally when his loved ones are threatened or disrespected in any way.
But… this does not excuse Fudge for making implications about a person based on what they are. He is wrong, not because his reasoning isn’t legitimate, but for using the general idea about the nature of giants to justify his prejudice against them. Umbridge had helped pass a law making it hard for people like Lupin to find work, and this was when Fudge was Minister, which shows that he perhaps shares her prejudice against half-breeds in general and views them as a social stigma.”
And this is the part where I think the comment really hit its stride:
“I think he has no right to feel so wary and judgmental about half-giants if he can freely associate with ‘reformed’ Death Eaters like Lucius Malfoy…”
Caleb: Zing, baby! That’s a good one.
Michael: Yep.
Kat: That is a good one.
Michael: I thought that was… or that really…
Noah: But then, let me get into the murky territory…
Kat: Hits the nail on the head there.
Michael: Oh yeah, definitely. Again, Fudge is coming from a perhaps historical perspective and limited knowledge on giants. But at the same time, the actions we see from him, especially in the next book but even at the tail end of this book, really show that where this is coming from for him is prejudice. Full-out altered, no laws…
Kat: No, absolutely.
Noah: [unintelligible] … giants…
Michael: Yes.
Kat: Because the main difference between Hagrid and Lucius Malfoy at the core is status and money. Really, if you take out who they are as people and all of that, Fudge likes to associate with rich people. Yeah, power.
Michael: Power. Definitely. Definitely. And there were a lot of nice and very thoughtful connections to history from quite a few of you on the main site. I have two comments here that I’d like to read back-to-back because they do relate to each other, but HinkyPuff said,
“There was a very interesting documentary… following those descended from high-up Nazis. Although they were made up only partly of ‘Nazi blood’, they carried guilt and responsibility around with them all their lives because of what their ancestors did to others in the war. They faced constant prejudice from select groups of people. Many people were able to distinguish them from their ancestors’ behaviors, but many, particularly those who had lost their own ancestors in concentration camps… actually cried when addressing them angrily, to which the descendant would apologise for their ancestors’ actions – as though it had anything to do with them. It left them broken in many ways.
It’s very interesting and is very similar to the situation Hagrid and Maxime are in, and explains why both were very unwilling to reveal who they actually descended from.”
And LeslieLovegood also added,
“Fudge is perpetuating a stereotype, that’s simply it. Some giants allied with Voldemort in the first war, so he takes that and projects in on their entire race. It’s no different than when after 9/11, many Americans mistakenly viewed all Muslims as terrorists. That claim wasn’t true, and as we know, it’s not true for giants (or those with giant blood) either.
This is really a common thing. When several members of a group/religion/race are involved in something bad, it gets projected on the whole group. That doesn’t make it right. It’s actually a very scary mentality.”
Noah: No, I hear that, but that’s sort of assuming that giants at their core are just like humans. But it seems like one of the former comments by PixieDragon was suggesting that giants have some inherent aggressive quality. So, shouldn’t that therefore complicate LeslieLovegood’s statement? Because one is about viewing humans as humans and this is about viewing humans versus giants, which seem to be a different species, even though compatible on some level is some fear from the humans. Does that make sense?
Kat: Questionably compatible, but yes. I know what you’re saying, Noah. It is hard to… I do agree with these comments about the stereotypes and the prejudice that comes with them, but it is hard to apply it to giants. It’s easy to apply it to Hagrid and Maxine because they’re half-giants.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Legitimate 100% giants, I don’t know if this applies to that – the prejudice and that. I don’t know.
Noah: Because who knows if the giants are even organized enough to have a… well, they’re sentient obviously, and they follow Voldemort and the Death Eaters. But are they organized enough that they could come to peace with humans? I want to say so, because they’ve been known to talk to Dumbledore and Hagrid pretty much, so…
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: Well, I don’t think they’re ever going to be at peace with humans. I think that they’re happy just to be on their own.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Well, part of that comes from the fact that we don’t really know the giants very well. Despite having actually had a full account from Hagrid of his encounters with them, we actually don’t know that much about the history of giants pre the first wizarding war, and we don’t really know a lot about their society structure. We also don’t know specifically what Voldemort and his followers were promising them.
Kat: Right.
Michael: Like you said, Noah, I would be interested to see if there was the possibility of giants at least coming to some kind of peaceful – maybe not “join our society”…
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Oh God!
Michael: Because I don’t think that they… smart wizards would know enough that that wouldn’t work. But something that Voldemort and his followers promised them was obviously appealing to them for him to work with them successfully twice. So there has to be at least some way to…
Kat: What do you think they’re motivated by?
Noah: I think maybe by their fear of humans. Or I assume the human wizards and witches persecuted them on some level and fought back against them, and maybe they were acting out. But maybe we don’t have enough context on giants yet.
Michael: Maybe they want… because giants – and correct me if I’m wrong – giants don’t actually have access to magic on their own, do they?
Kat: No, they don’t like magic.
Michael: Do they not like magic? I was wondering that.
Kat: No. Okay, they don’t like it being used on them, but they like magic.
Michael: Okay.
Kat: That’s why Hagrid gave them that Gubraithian branch of fire or whatever.
Noah: Oh, yeah.
Caleb: Mhm.
Michael: So maybe it was the promises of magic from Voldemort.
Kat: Maybe.
Michael: Because being Voldemort, he might have even promised things he wasn’t intending or planning or even going to give them. But that’s a big appeal, to have something that would make your life supposedly easier. Especially when you’ve been ostracized by the rest of the world and you have to hole up in very small areas of the world. Where you also have to – because of your aggressive nature, the giants just end up killing themselves and each other just out of habit.
Noah: It’s a bad habit.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Right.
Caleb: Yeah, and I think it’s really important to…
Michael: Or half-giants.
Caleb: I want to recognize that awesome job pulling out these historical allusions – or at least we can agree somewhat compatible – because this is what’s really awesome about literature, right? That you can make these parallels to things that have happened in history, and it makes you think. Because these are, as LeslieLovegood says, “It’s a very scary mentality.” And as long as people are reading and thinking about things in this way, it does good for the human race, I say.
Kat: Because we all do it, whether we’re conscious of the fact that we’re doing it or not, we all… everybody has these prejudices built in. It’s whether you act on them and voice the opinion, when it matters.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: So, as quite a few people pointed out on the main site, this kind of generalizing is sadly what will be Fudge’s undoing – despite Dumbledore’s advice to the contrary to perhaps not take things so generally and to act quickly. Especially when it comes to the giants, because he loses that alliance immediately.
Kat: Yes, he does.
Michael: So, the other two quick comments I just wanted to throw out because they were really good. Al Armstrong said,
“Anyone can find reasons to be prejudiced, but the mark of a leader is to act justly even when justice is unpopular, or even dangerous.”
I just wanted… before we close out the Podcast Question of the Week, I wanted to shout-out to the rest of you who left comments on the main site. I didn’t get to read your comments, but really this week you were all…
Kat: Oh my God.
Michael: You all left very impressive responses. I wanted to shout-out to Bill White, Claire Marie, CrumpleHornedUnicorn, Dwayne Roberts, Hadas, HallowsMaster97, Harrison, James Mahoney…
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Michael: … LunasLovechild, [laughs] madame_lestrange, Moony,Padfoot&Prongs, Olivia Underwood, Pig-desk, Pigwidgeon, Victoria Kirby, and wrackspurtsgotme. Excellent job, all of you this week. And as always, excellent usernames.
Kat: Never fail to impress. Never fail to impress.
Michael: Very creative. We have very creative listeners.
[Goblet of Fire Chapter 30 intro begins]
Dumbledore: Chapter 30.
[Sound of a Pensieve]
Dumbledore: “The Pensieve.”
[Goblet of Fire Chapter 30 intro ends]
Noah: Chapter 30, “The Pensieve.” Harry gets into some of Dumbledore’s business without Dumbledore knowing. Or does he know? But we will get to that later. Anyway, we have just… as we were just talking about, Harry comes into Dumbledore’s office after hearing Fudge and Dumbledore and Moody speaking.
Caleb: Right.
Noah: And he immediately voices his opinion about Madame Maxime, as we were saying, that she was not there. Harry didn’t see her.
Kat: Which… good for him. Hermione would be very proud.
Noah: Yeah, no. She absolutely would with her forward-species think[ing].
Michael: Yes.
Noah: So Harry enters the office, and Dumbledore has to leave for a little while, and he’s left with Fawkes. And he just relaxes, and he’s very happy that he’s going to be able to talk about his dream with Dumbledore. And I started wondering… was this setting up a patient and therapistesque scenario, with Harry the patient and Dumbledore going to be analyzing his dreams and putting his fears to rest?
Kat: I feel like that happens a lot with them.
Caleb: I feel like it happens early in the series, but that relationship is starting to change, particularly with this scene.
Kat: Right.
Noah: They’re becoming more of a team.
Caleb: Slowly. It’s not obviously fully there, yet, but you definitely see Dumbledore start to shift in the way he responds to Harry.
Kat: The part that stood out to me, I guess, about these couple of pages here is that in the US edition, page 582 and 583… between those two pages we have three references to Chamber of Secrets. Which really interests me because this is the middle book of the “circle theory,” and it just struck me that all of a sudden we were back in Chamber of Secrets land because, as you mentioned, Harry mentions Fawkes, and then the next page we talk about the sword of Gryffindor, and then he mentions the diary.
Caleb: Hmm.
Kat: And it just… it had never struck me before that those were boom, boom, boom, right there in a row like that.
Caleb: Yeah. I mean, I think part of it could be just because they’re there. It’s a present, visual reminder of that. Obviously, since he’s in Dumbledore’s office, it’s just there in front of him. The sword obviously reminds him; he hasn’t seen it since it happened. But Jo could have put it there for a reason.
Noah: Right.
Michael: I… it’s funny with that, I think, because the… a lot of those… not the sword but some of the… a lot of the things that happen in this book not only back reference Chamber but also with that foreshadow Half-Blood. Like you were saying, Kat, it’s that placement of Goblet being right in the middle, so it doesn’t really necessarily have a sister book in ring composition theory.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: But in a way, it does have really… probably its strongest connections are to [Books] 2 and 6, so that circle of the ring joins up together. They both go through Goblet of Fire if you mapped it out. So it’s… I do think that’s part of it because the funny thing is the sword doesn’t come into prominence again at all until [Book] 7.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: It’s the odd one out.
Kat: I guess I never really thought about the fact that [Book] 4 really does have most references to [Books] 2 and 6. Hmm.
Michael: There’s also a lot of… I mean, the only… there'[re] a lot of strong connections to [Book] 3 as well, but I think as far as… [Book] 3 is more for the Rita Skeeter stuff, as far as revealing that she’s an Animagus.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: So really, the strongest connections, I think, to the overall plot are [Books] 2 and 6.
Kat: Yeah, because it’s basically in this chapter that Dumbledore pretty much lays out the “Harry is a Horcrux” thing. So hmm.
Michael: Mhm.
Noah: Now, there are all these connections and stuff, and I sat through one of John Granger’s lectures, but for the most part, it wasn’t quite clear to me. So what? So what’s the point of these connections other than that it’s circular and therefore connects with your Christian soul kind of thing, which is sort of where he went with it.
Caleb: Mhm. Yeah.
Noah: Is that the only takeaway from circle theory, or is there something else besides the connections?
Michael: Well, I mean, just purely looking at it from a reader’s standpoint, it serves to what we do now, which is, as a rereader, to look back and make those connections.
Noah: So it just strengthens the narrative, I guess?
Michael: Yeah. I mean, to me it does. I can’t think of it very far beyond the value for somebody who’s maybe not studying this academically.
Noah: Mhm.
Michael: I’m just thinking in terms of strictly a reader. That would be the benefit for me is to really go back through the story and be like, “Wow, I can’t believe that that was connected to that, or so and so, or that this was foreshadowing this.” I think that’s why a lot… I mean, we even had this discussion when Lev Grossman was on, and we asked him, “What is your writing process, and how does it compare to what Jo has written?” and he was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Nobody’s in the same camp; none of us [is] in the same planet that she’s inhabiting.” [laughs] He said that just the way that she weaves her web of storytelling is…
Noah: Well, I wonder, as a writer myself, how much of it is conscious and how much just sort of happens.
Michael: Mhm. Well, and yeah, I think we do have to take that into account because Pottermore definitely strengthens that, and that’s an after the fact material.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: That’s… as [do] Fantastic Beasts, Quidditch Through the Ages, and Tales of Beedle the Bard. All of those things do, I think. And that depends, too, what you take as canon.
Kat: Even the videogames. All the stuff we learn there.
Michael: Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. There were… the wizard cards in the videogames were written by her.
Kat: Right.
Michael: So to have that information in advance… and there were things… there were key parts of information in all of those wizard cards. A lot of them. So yeah, it’s… I mean, I just can’t see anything past the value of as a reader, but that’s because I didn’t study English academically.
Noah: Mhm.
Michael: So that’s more you, Noah.
Noah: I think that is me.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: Well, I have some other thoughts about ring theory, but we should really have John Granger on a show. I think that would be dynamic.
Kat: I was just thinking that.
Michael: That would be really cool.
Kat: Maybe this would be the perfect time to have him on, when we’re in the middle of the book.
Noah: In the middle of the ring. [laughs]
Michael: In the middle.
Noah: Lost!
[Michael laughs]
Noah: All right, so anyway, Harry is left alone in the office, and of course he is going to get into some trouble. He finds Fawkes, as we were saying, admiring him – big old bird – and then he sees that there’s a little door next to the office that’s ajar, and there’s something silvery in it, and it is, of course, the Pensieve. Harry gives a little look at Fawkes before he goes over, and I thought that was interesting to see, saying, “Hey, bird, don’t say anything.”
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: “Don’t tell Dumbledore.”
Caleb: Fawkes is suddenly complicit in Harry’s act.
Kat: Right. [laughs]
Michael: Well, I mean, I think that’s just Harry…
Noah: The line is…
Michael: That’s the connection we’ve gotten all along that Harry and Dumbledore – or Fawkes and Dumbledore – are connected.
Caleb: Yeah, definitely.
Noah: So I mean, Fawkes could have stopped him. “Harry hesitated, glanced at Fawkes, then got up and walked across the office” is the line. So I think that’s kind of telling there.
Michael: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we’ll see that later when Harry apologizes and Dumbledore’s response to that.
[Noah laughs]
Michael: I mean, yeah, Fawkes could have probably just flown in front of the cupboard until…
Noah: He could’ve…
Kat: Fawkes probably would have only had to blink or click his beak or something, and Harry would have been like…
[Michael laughs]
Kat: … “Oh, crap. Okay. Never mind.”
Noah: With a great squawk?
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Or he could’ve just burst into flames?
Kat: Yeah, that too.
Michael: [laughs] And Harry would’ve been like [in a British accent], “Oh my God! Oh my God! I did it again!”
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Michael: [in a British accent] “Bloody bird!”
Noah: But this begs the question: Did Dumbledore leave the door open on purpose?
Kat: No.
Noah: Are you sure?
Caleb: No, I don’t think so.
Kat: Yeah, because later in the chapter he says that he didn’t close it properly.
Noah: This is…
Caleb: Yeah, but I feel like if he wanted Harry to see it he would just show him.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Right.
Michael: Not necessarily.
Noah: Are you sure? Dumbledore says, later in the chapter, “Harry, I knew you’re naturally curious, so…” He could’ve easily assumed that this would happen.
Kat: Yeah, but that means that Dumbledore would’ve known that Harry was having the dream, and he would’ve known that Harry would’ve come up to see him and would’ve purposely left the door open.
Noah: Dumbledore knows a lot of things.
Kat: I definitely don’t think this was premeditated.
Caleb: Yeah, that’s a lot of foresight that I don’t think he has.
Kat: Yeah, I don’t think he could predict that… I mean, okay, everybody knows you fall asleep in Divination, but I mean… yeah, I think that’s a bit much even for Dumbledore.
Caleb: He… yeah, yeah, exactly.
Noah: I don’t know.
Michael: I think as a first-time reader you are meant to be left wondering if… because throughout the series… and again, we talked about this already, but you are supposed to constantly be in flux about how much Dumbledore knows and how much he’s putting in motion on his own.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: Reading this for the gazillionth time, I think at this point I’ve come to the feeling, personally, that Dumbledore did not do it intentionally but that he found it to be a great benefit for what happened.
Caleb: Yeah, I agree with that.
Kat: I concur.
Noah: Yeah. I agree with you, too, actually. And I’m thinking about what Steve Vander Ark said on an earlier episode, talking about how the magical universe of Hogwarts sort of works, and Dumbledore tends to just sort of let things happen and use them to his benefit or find significance in them. And this could easily be one of those times.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Wow, this is like the Throwback Thursday episode here.
Michael: Yeah.
Caleb: No kidding.
Michael: We’re in our own Pensieve.
Kat: Aww.
Caleb: Especially… Lev and Steve were both guests, I think, on Sorcerer’s Stone, weren’t they?
Kat: Yeah.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: Hmm. Yeah, they were.
Caleb: I might have to get fact-checked on that but maybe.
Kat: Lev might have been Chamber.
Noah: Perhaps all things tied to Harry Potter are also tied to the ring theory, and you can’t help but do anything with it that’s not within the scope of the net.
Kat: Well, I mean, that’s pretty true, I think.
Caleb: Okay, I’m going to need some Advil soon, so let’s just…
Michael: [laughs] Oh, yeah. Dumbledore is pulling the strings on our podcast, you guys.
Noah: So Harry finds…
Kat: Which, in turn, means that Jo is pulling the strings on the podcast.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Just saying. Just throwing it out there.
Noah: Unless the wizarding world is real.
Kat: It is.
Michael: Well, our slogan is “Open the Dumbledore.”
[Kat laughs]
Michael: We may have…
Caleb: Not far enough! Not far enough! Keep going!
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Caleb: I still want it!
[Michael laughs]
Noah: So Harry discovers the Pensieve, and “It was a bright, whitish silver…” – this is the liquid or gas substance inside – “… moving ceaselessly; the surface of it became ruffled like water beneath wind, and then, like clouds, separated and swirled smoothly. It looked like light made liquid, or like wind made solid…” – it looked like… wait – “Harry couldn’t make up his mind.”
[Kat laughs]
Noah: Take out the “wait” part, but I just thought…
Kat: I think that’s one of my favorite descriptions in the book.
Noah: But that’s Harry’s mind.
Michael: Me too.
Noah: He’s a poet. That was beautiful.
Kat: And didn’t know it? That’s what I was waiting for.
Noah: He’s a poet and didn’t know it.
Caleb: Is he a poet like you, Noah?
Noah: Not like me.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: Does he have poems saved on his phone?
Kat: He talks to himself on Twitter?
Noah: Wait, how do you guys know about those? Never mind.
Caleb: Noah, you read them.
Kat: You showed us the poems on your phone!
Noah: I did?
Caleb: Maybe you don’t remember because of certain circumstances [laughs] but…
Noah: Oh, man! [laughs]
Kat: That was the night you jumped in the freezing pool at MISTI-Con!
Noah: Oh, yeah, I did do that. That was wild.
Kat: Or the lake or whatever.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah, that was so fun. I’m going to cosplay as Harry Potter at every convention I go to now.
Michael: Noah, I’m going to want to see those poems again.
Kat: No, you really don’t, Michael!
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: You’ll probably be okay without them.
Kat: Yeah, you really don’t. You really don’t.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Well, anyway, back to the chapter discussion…
Kat: This is more fun.
Noah: Harry gets to the Pensieve and slowly dips his head ever closer. At first he’s a little caught off guard, so he prods it with his wand.
Caleb: Stop.
Michael: I just love that he’s… his mind is actually like [in a British accent], “Don’t touch this with my finger, but I’ll touch it with my wand, and then eventually I’ll just stick my nose in…”
[Caleb, Kat, and Michael laugh]
Noah: [in a British accent] “So curious! I’m so curious! I can’t see! It’s a circle. The room’s a square; the Pensieve, a circle. I can’t really see.”
[Caleb laughs]
Noah: “Ahh!”
Kat: Is curiosity a… what house does that go to?
Noah: Slytherin.
Michael: Curiosity? I would actually associate that intense curiosity with a Ravenclaw.
Caleb: Same.
Kat: That’s what I thought. Okay. I was just curious.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: So would you stick your nose in the Pensieve?
Caleb: Because Gryffindor would’ve been like, “Eh, I don’t know.” I would’ve just been like, “All right, let’s go.” Just jump in.
Kat: That’s hard to say. I’m not very adventurous. I mean, that’s not really true.
Noah: [laughs] She’d totally do it. She’d dunk her head.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: I would prob-… no, he’s right. I would probably do it.
Noah: These are Dumbledore’s thoughts combined.
Caleb: He doesn’t know that, though.
Noah: So Harry starts with his wand and his face, and then he completely falls through. He gets into a large room, which he realizes is not at all like Hogwarts. It’s a dimmly lit stone room with…
Kat: [laughs] Which sounds exactly like Hogwarts, just saying.
Noah: Oh, yeah.
Kat: In a way. [laughs]
Noah: In a way. It’s like another dungeon but to him, completely different. There’s a chair in the middle, and around, there are wizards and witches – adults – he’s keen to realize, who are very morbid. And he sees Dumbledore sitting next to him, and he frantically waves his hand in front of his face to make sure it’s not Dumbledore, which I thought was kind of funny.
[Caleb laughs]
Michael: I like that.
Noah: And he realizes… it dawns on him that this is like the diary experience, back in second year. So he’s like, “Okay. This has happened before.”
Kat: It’s about time he used something in his memory to do something in his life.
Caleb: Yay, Harry!
Noah: Yeah. His memory’s not very good.
Michael: Good job, Harry. Harry is finally learning about ring composition.
Kat: [laughs] Yeah, a little bit.
Michael: [laughs] A little bit.
Noah: So he falls into this, and what is… maybe this is a question we can put toward later, but what is Voldemort and Dumbledore’s obsession with the past, the sense of nostalgia that is constantly tormenting them? Because Voldemort has his diary, Dumbledore has the Pensieve. Aren’t these just… aren’t their souls warped by their pasts? Is that it with everybody?
Caleb: No, Dumbledore doesn’t use the Pensieve because he’s held up on his past. It’s because he has so many bloody thoughts that he can’t hold them in his brain anymore, so he has to contain them in something other than his own head.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Well, that’s one answer.
Kat: By the way, that was a good use of a British swear [word]. Good job.
Caleb: [laughs] Thanks.
Michael: [laughs] I think… well, I mean, as Dumbledore goes, he has to have this occupation with the past, or else he’s never going to be able to figure things out.
Caleb: Oh, that’s true.
Michael: That’s all Half-Blood Prince is about. It’s like he can’t teach Harry how to properly defeat Voldemort unless Harry understands Voldemort. And Voldemort’s past is his weakness, really, because the objects he picks are both relics of the past as well as things that have great personal meaning to him. I don’t know what his preoccupation with it is. I mean, maybe Voldemort needs a therapist. [laughs]
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: That poor soul. Who would that be?
Michael: [laughs] Those sessions probably wouldn’t go over very well.
Kat: There’d probably only be one.
Michael: But… probably. [laughs]
Noah: In any case, I just thought this scene – harking back to the diary – just sort of made me think of characters who were dwelling in their pasts, who are continuously doing so, and the rate at which Dumbledore will pull out thoughts and memories, as we see later, makes me think that this is someone who is constantly in his past memories and stuff, so… just sort of an interesting connection between the two characters, but…
Kat: Dumbledore reminds me – and this is my current obsession – a lot of Sherlock Holmes in this way, the fact that he’s always thinking about everything that’s happening, past, present, and future. And trying to deduce and come up with what’s going to happen next and what’s the solution and what’s the problem, what caused the problem, and so… I don’t know.
Michael: It’s funny. That’s a good comparison. I was thinking more… and it just only hit me when you said the comparison to Sherlock, but personally, I’d just be more inclined to compare him to Hercule Poirot.
Kat: Sure, yeah. Definitely.
Michael: Because I used to read a lot of Christie, and I know Jo is very inspired by Agatha Christie, and Dumbledore definitely plays that part here, even to the point of, like we mentioned earlier, not giving away the solution until there’s a big showing to do it.
Kat: Yep.
Noah: So the Dementors bring Karkaroff into court, one in each arm, and it is not a merry walk by any means. Karkaroff is very pale, and he sits in the chair, which snakes up around him, which is kind of unique.
Kat: That’s so creepy.
Noah: But I was thinking about Dementors here. Remember when we realized that they can talk back in – when was it? – Prisoner of Azkaban?
[Kat laughs]
Noah: They are very controlled creatures, especially here. And in the movies thy’re just presented as soul-sucking monsters. So I wonder to what degree they are cognizant. They just hang out. This trial with Karkaroff begins, and it is Crouch, mainly, leading the judgment, and I know people have a problem with Crouch in Goblet of Fire. I actually like that character. I think he’s kind of cool. [as Crouch]“Chinese Fireball. Ooh!” It’s not…
Michael: [laughs] Oh my God. I was… I have a co-worker who can do that spot on.
Noah: Really?
Kat: Nice. Yeah, I don’t mind Crouch. I really like… I enjoyed Roger Lloyd Pack. He’s one of… he was a great British actor.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: I like him as that part, and I don’t mind Crouch, really, at all.
Michael: Well, it’s funny. You guys had this discussion on the last episode, and I’ve been feeling this more with this reread more than ever, just really how tragic his character is.
Kat: So tragic.
Michael: His character just has a really sad life and a very, very bad demise.
Caleb: Guys, there’s plenty in this chapter to not like him more, though.
Noah: There is, there really is.
Kat: There is. No, that’s very true.
Michael: No. Yeah. Oh, definitely. And I’m not saying he’s a good person in any way…
Caleb: I just wanted to make sure that we weren’t on the path of “Oh, Snape is such a good guy, though.”
[Noah laughs]
Kat: No, see, I actually feel a lot…
Michael: No.
Kat: I feel similarly – I can never say that – between Crouch and Snape…
Caleb: Okay.
Kat: Actually, I feel pretty much the same way about them is that I enjoy their character and…
Caleb: Fair.
Kat: … and I like their complexity but don’t really like them as people.
Noah: Oh, I see what you did there. That way you can maintain your sentiment without judging the character. I thought the trial was very much like the World War II or post-World War II Nuremberg Trials with the ex-Nazis or Nazis with the Allied Powers, which is a very obvious connection, but I thought I would just throw it out if anybody wants to analyze the situation.
Caleb: Yeah. That makes sense.
Kat: Well, what’s the decade that this happened in?
Noah: ’80s?
Kat: No.
Caleb: It would be pre-80s because Harry was born in 1980.
Noah: But this is after Voledmort…
Caleb: No, this is… I think this is before Harry… oh, well, no that’s true because…
Noah: Yeah, it’s…
Caleb: … this is when Frank and Alice have already been hit with the Cruciatus Curse so…
Kat: Right. So this would be, what, ’83? ’82?
Caleb: Yeah. So this would be early ’80s.
Noah: Dumbledore actually makes a weird noise when Moody talks about the Dementors and how he wishes that while this whole trial is going on that Crouch would just send Karkaroff back to the Dementors. Dumbledore just… I guess he disagrees with the practice of keeping them, which is what he says, and this kind of reflects his politics. He is very against torture and possibly the entire Azkaban system, but he doesn’t go into too much detail. I also wonder if the Dementors being there make him feel really depressed or maybe he remembers Ariana or his past when they’re around.
Caleb: Yeah. I mean, Dumbledore has… we obviously later find out one of the most tragic pasts of any character we meet, maybe aside from Harry.
Noah: Yeah.
Caleb: So he has a lot of pain to relive through the Dementors.
Michael: I’m always impressed that everybody is pretty good at keeping their composure around Dementors. After Harry faints a lot in Book 3… and Lupin attributes that to, “Oh, you’ve seen things that a lot of people haven’t at a young age,” but Dumbledore… that horrible, horrible past of his carries on with him throughout his whole life. You would think the Dementors would have a more profound effect on him when he’s nearby them. I mean, he chats with them, apparently.
Kat: But they’re not trying to suck out his soul right now.
Noah: No.
Michael: That’s true. They’re not really that focused in on him.
Kat: Right. So I feel like they have an on and off switch. You know what I mean? Where they’re not going to try [to] suck it out of you unless…
Michael: Proximity and things like that.
Noah: No, but I think they’re just being there… their presence does something in a very general way.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: No, definitely. But…
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: … you’re able to keep your composure.
Noah: But Dumbledore is like hypersensitive to his past, potentially.
Caleb: But he’s also very…
Michael Yeah…
Caleb: … skilled to be able to suppress it.
Noah: Poor Dumbledore.
Michael: Yeah. I think that’s interesting, though, to suggest that maybe his past with Ariana and the possibility that Dementors bring that up for him actually influence his view on…
Noah: Right. Exactly.
Michael: … the use of Dementors in Azkaban.
Noah: So throughout the scene, Karkaroff is trying to bring up different Death Eaters so that he can get a break, but he is unsuccessful mentioning different names. This was actually very similiar to the movie, I thought, except he’s not the one to bring up Little Crouch, as it were. But he does mention Snape, and Harry sees it, and then Dumbledore is asked to grant testimony and say that Snape is not a Death Eater and that he turned traitor for us at his own great personal risk, but Jo makes Harry look at Moody and see that he was wearing a look of deep skepticism behind Dumbledore’s back. And I thought that was cool that Jo was here planting the seeds… or a seed of fear for Harry and Snape.
Michael: Yeah. I like that just because… rereading it, Dumbledore once again asserts very publicly, “I trust Severus Snape.”
Kat: What evidence did he give?
Caleb: The fact that Snape turned over…
Michael: Oh, you mean…
Caleb: … and then proves himself to Dumbledore, probably.
Kat: How do you prove that?
Caleb: Dumbledore is taken at his word.
Noah: Yeah, isn’t he just taken at his word?
Kat: Yeah, but why?
Caleb: Dumbledore just carries enough weight. That’s what I always assumed.
Noah: Oh.
Caleb: Which speaks to possibly a larger problem even though it is Dumbledore. Or pity because it is Dumbledore. But yeah, I think that’s… I would assume that’s why.
Michael: Because Dumbledore wouldn’t elaborate on the information past…
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: … that Snape gave him information.
Noah: So then the scene fades and it becomes Ludo Bagman’s trial, and he just has so much swagger, this guy, comes in.
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Noah: He sits in the chair, and at first he’s scared and then he realizes, “Oh. No coils? I think I’m going to have a good time. This is going to be all right.” And Crouch just hates him, and later he will say off the cuff that if this guy ever gets to the Ministry it would be terrible.
Caleb: Ah, I get it.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Because he does.
Noah: Yeah. So…
[Caleb and Michael laughs]
Noah: … a little bit of humor.
Michael: Welcome to the joke.
Noah: But throughout this trial, I noticed, and the last one, Moody keeps interrupting with these little comments in Dumbledore’s ear.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Did anyone else find this… or notice this again? Because I just thought to myself, “Man, if I went to a play or a movie, I would not bring this guy.”
[Caleb, Kat, and Michael laugh]
Calebl: Yeah. He’s one of those.
Kat: He is one of those.
Noah: He totally is. He just always has a word in. “I’d throw him to the Dementors.” Who cares.
Kat: He’s just an angry guy, I think kind of by nature, and that’s, I would assume, why he’s a good Auror, is that I think anger propels him.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: To make just decisions or what he sees as just decisions.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: So…
Michael: Well, isn’t it a funny thing, too… because I never really realized just idly thinking about this before, but this is the only time… other than in the trunk, but this is the only time that we actually see…
Noah: That’s right.
Caleb: … real Moody…
Kat: Right.
Michael: … being real Moody in the entire book.
Caleb: Right.
Noah: So the fact that Harry doesn’t even notice anything just speaks to how spot on Little Crouch was playing fake Moody.
Caleb: Mhm. Definitely.
Michael: Oh, yeah. I think that’s really… I think that’s the point of Moody continually talking…
Noah: Yes.
Michael: … throughout these scenes, is because then we continue to trust him.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: Because Harry does.
Noah: Harry is just very dim, it would seem. That is where we’re going with this.
Kat: Yeah, that’s never been debatable.
[Caleb, Michael, and Noah laugh]
Noah: And yet he’s the central character of the entire series, and everybody loves him and he saves the day!
Kat: The light bulb is on, but nobody is home.
Noah: So the crowd’s treatment of Ludo Bagman I found very interesting because even though he passed on this information to a Death Eater he didn’t realize it’s his argument. He didn’t know any better, and the crowd is with him. They’re… when Crouch asks for a vote they all… they basically just stand up in applause. I think one person says, “Your performance in the last Quidditch game was excellent,” or something to that effect.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: And I was just wondering if this entire moment is perhaps the beginning of Jo’s commentary on politics and people in general and how they’re only looking at stuff at the surface… kind of surface deeply?
Kat: Abso-freaking-lutely. Look at all the BS that’s happening with Justin Bieber right now.
Noah: Yeah, yeah.
Kat: Not to bring him into this…
[Michael laughs]
Kat: No but seriously, people who are sports stars or celebrities or singers or whatever, and…
Noah: Exactly.
Kat: Anybody in the limelight should not be treated differently than a – quote, unquote – “normal citizen.”
Noah: Anyway, he goes free and gets many witches’ numbers on the Wizengamot, I’m sure. And another batch of criminals comes in with a brand new scene, and this time six Dementors bring in these criminals including Barty Crouch’s son. Jim the Dementor is one of the Dementors…
[Michael laughs]
Noah: … holding Bellatrix, but he’s actually kind of scared of Bellatrix, which is unique, but she is a crazy, crazy chick. She sits in the chair, the chair that they’re all sitting in, but “like it’s a throne.” That’s the exact line basically, and I just thought this was very, very Bellatrix. She would do this. She would make the chain throne…
Michael: [laughs] Yeah.
Noah: … her fortress.
Michael: I like, though, that we really get quite a clear sense of Bellatrix literally without…
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah, right?
Michael: … knowing who she is at this point. This is the first…
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: That’s true.
Michael: Because this is the first time we see her.
Kat: And it’s not even by name.
Michael: Yeah, we never find out her name in this book, so it’s…
Noah: You know, it might…
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: … not be Bellatrix.
Michael: We’re left with a pretty…
Caleb: It is.
Kat: It’s definitely Bellatrix.
Noah: All right.
Kat: With the “heavy-lidded eyes.”
Michael: Oh, it’s Bellatrix.
Kat: Yeah, it’s definitely Bellatrix.
Caleb: Yep.
Noah: So… and now this… I thought this part of the trial was actually very sad and really dark because you have Crouch’s wife next to him, shaking and sobbing as he utters judgement on the four of them, and all the while Little Crouch is just begging, just saying, “I was not involved! I didn’t know! I didn’t mean to!” And it’s just really sad, so… I was even taken aback after these… after it’s been a little while reading this book at how harsh Crouch was, and I thought about how the movie totally changed this scene so that it wasn’t quite so brutal. They had to make Barty Crouch Jr. evil with the weird tongue flick thing.
Kat: [laughs] They… I was thinking about Crouch a lot when I was reading this scene, and you have to be… I tried to put myself in his shoes, and that is pretty harsh. It’s almost unspeakable what he’s doing to his son. It just… I don’t know if I would have the guts to do that in his place.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Personally.
Noah: And are we… we’re pretty sure that he was… that he did it, right? Little Crouch?
Caleb: Yeah, no doubt.
Michael: Oh, he did.
Kat: He did.
Michael: For sure, definitely. I mean, even if he didn’t, he’s…
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: … freaking crazy.
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Caleb: He wouldn’t have gone back to Voldemort had he not done it.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: I mean, the evidence had to be palpable for him to just give judgement like that.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: It is incontrovertible. I don’t get to use that word very often.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Dumbledore pops up beside Harry, next to other Dumbledore, and Harry is suddenly in a Dumbledore sandwich.
Caleb: Eww!
Kat: Oh my God! I had a sandwich of my own last week.
Caleb: I think that’s the episode title, “Dumbledore Sandwich.”
Noah: I think it is.
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Caleb: Whoa, that made me feel uncomfortable.
Noah: And Harry [unintelligible].
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Kat: What, the Dumbledore sandwich?
Caleb: Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of wrinkles and there’s a lot of hair, so just…
Kat: Oh. My sandwich was much better.
Noah: Well, it’s got a Harry filling in this one.
Caleb: Ugh, gross.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: And Dumbledore tells…
Caleb: Stop. Move on.
Noah: Dumbledore kind of tells Harry, “So, uh, what are you doing to my Pensieve?” [laughs] He doesn’t exactly say it like that, but he nudges Harry…
Caleb: Man, Noah, you can make anything sound dirty. I mean anything.
Kat: [laughs] Yes, he can.
Caleb: It’s like… you know when you tell people who can sing really well, “You can sing the phone book and sound wonderful”? Noah, you could make the phone book sound dirty. [laughs] I mean…
Noah: Really?
Caleb: Yes.
Kat: Challenge accepted.
Michael: You guys seen that episode of Friends where they say that to Joey and he’s like, “Grandma’s deep fried chicken.”
Caleb: Yeah, exactly.
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Noah: That’s pretty good, too.
Michael: That’s you, Noah.
Noah: Well, I mean… no, I’m starting to…
[Michael laughs]
Noah: I’m trying to own this thing, this voice. Anyway… sorry. So Dumbledore grabs Harry, nudges him, nudges his shoulder up out of the Pensieve, and there is an awkward moment, and I just thought to myself, “Was Harry just sitting there with his head dipped in the Pensieve for 15 minutes?”
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: That’s hilarious.
Kat: Yeah, how does that work?
Caleb: Just like, “Dunk!”
Michael: I was wondering that.
Caleb: Dumbledore walks in and he’s like, “Harry? Harry?”
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Caleb: Harry here with his head just dunked in the Pensieve.
Noah: And if that’s the case, how long was Dumbledore watching?
Michael: No, I was wondering that and I had more questions extending on that for the Podcast Question of the Week. But that particular one… I was wondering, does the Pensieve work maybe like when you do the fireplace…
Kat: Right.
Michael: … when you need the Floo Network…
Noah: Disappear.
Michael: … just to talk to somebody, do you stick your head in or do you just completely go in? Because Harry seems to be… unlike when he does that when he… in Book 5, when he talks to Kreacher, Harry seems to be completely physically aware of himself in the Pensieve. He feels like his whole body fell in. So I… the movie interprets… the movie takes so many different interpretations of it, so I…
Noah: Because I think it’s his mind.
Michael: Really?
Noah: I think there’s a difference. His mind definitely goes… I’m not… I don’t think there’s evidence that his body goes.
Kat: When he goes into the diary, it’s his whole self that goes in, yeah?
Noah: The movie shows that. I don’t…
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: … think it’s in the book.
Kat: I don’t know.
Caleb: Yeah, it’s not really super clear.
Kat: That is the question.
Noah: Well, for my own enjoyment…
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Because both times it’s a memory that he’s going into.
Michael: You just come into the Gryffindor Common Room and find Harry’s body with his head stuck in the book.
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: Just a book his head… his head is the book!
[Michael laughs]
Kat: That’s pretty funny imagery.
Noah: Yeah. Oh, man. So for my own enjoyment, I want to imagine that Harry has just been sticking his face in this bowl in a corner, and Dumbledore just walks in and waits for five minutes or so, and he talks to Fawkes.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Kat: He eats a few liquorice snaps.
Noah: He eats a few liquorice snaps. [laughs]
Kat: [laughs] Wait, guys, I just got this great picture for a T-shirt, where it’s the sideview of a desk with Harry’s head in a Pensieve, and it could say something witty like, “Lost in my thoughts.”
Noah: Ooh!
Caleb: Nice.
Michael: Ho ho, ho ho. I like that.
Kat: I don’t know. Oh, I thought it was kind of dorky. Oh, okay. Cool.
Michael: No, make it happen.
Noah: I think there are a lot of interesting images right there.
Kat: I concur.
Noah: So Harry… there’s just a really awkward moment between Harry and Dumbledore, and Harry is worried and he feels like he’s just been caught, in a sense, in Dumbledore’s mind, which he really has been. So he asks Dumbledore what it is and he says, “This? This is a Pensieve. I sometimes find, and I’m sure you know the feeling, that…” I don’t know the exact line but “… when my thoughts and my memories are too much, I put them away.” And then Harry basically…
Kat: He says, “‘Er,’ said Harry, who couldn’t truthfully say that he had ever felt anything of the sort.”
Noah: Which makes sense because Harry isn’t one like Dumbledore to think and feel that way. So does Dumbledore overestimate Harry’s smarts and empathy?
Kat: All the time.
Noah: So…
Michael: That’s funny because I was thinking about this line when I read it and… I remember when I read it – when I originally read it – when I was around Harry’s age, because that was about where I was when I first read the book, and I didn’t get the line from Dumbledore. I didn’t get it when he said it. And now… I’m not as old as Dumbledore, but being in my mid-twenties I get it. [laughs] I get that feeling.
Caleb: Yeah [unintelligible].
Noah: I completely as well.
Michael: Feelings and… I would love a Pensieve.
Caleb: Yeah…
Michael: That would be a great birthday gift. [laughs] That’s a great… and I don’t think he so… it’s not necessarily… I think Dumbledore says things that he knows Harry won’t get. It’s almost like he’s talking to himself sometimes.
Caleb: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’m thinking sometimes.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: Isn’t it like journaling, though, in a way? If you journaled your thoughts very… with great illustrations it would kind of be the equivalent of a Pensieve.
Caleb: Yeah, and journaling takes so much effort, though.
Michael: Well exactly, that’s what Tom Riddle did and therefore…
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: … we have a whole journal of memories. But yeah, no, I don’t think he’s necessarily overestimating. He’s… Dumbledore kind of just says things that Harry will understand later.
Noah: He’ll understand later but doesn’t understand then.
Michael: So… yeah, no… I suppose he is overestimating him, but I don’t… like you said, I almost feel like Dumbledore is just saying things out loud and not really addressing Harry necessarily.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: Because he drifts off a lot and I never really noticed that as much as a kid because I was in the same feeling as Harry where I was like, “Whatever Dumbledore says, I don’t care. I’m just hanging on his every word…”
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: “… because it is obviously important.” But now reading it, I’m like, “Wow, Dumbledore just kind of drifts off a lot. He’s not really present most of the time.” [laughs]
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: Especially when Harry is younger. He’s just kind of like, “Oh, Pensieve…”
Noah: But I think it’s also possible that he’s found a kindred spirit in Harry and thinks that he’s not there yet but perhaps will rise to this sort of level of memory-fullness or something. But if it… on the other hand, if it’s possible that Dumbledore does think that Harry is this really thoughtful guy who could use a Pensieve just like him. Maybe he doesn’t have a good sense of Harry or as good as we think he does.
Michael: Maybe Harry doesn’t even realize that he wouldn’t… I think a Pensieve is such a mind-blowing object anyway when you first…
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: … encounter it. You wouldn’t even think about needing one right away. It’s just kind of… I mean, he’s just been swimming around in Dumbledore’s thoughts for a while.
Noah: He really has. He was enjoying himself.
Michael: That was pretty weird.
Noah: So then Snape’s face rises to the top of the Pensieve, uttering the line. This was clearly a throwback to some conversation that he had with Dumbledore about the Dark Mark that Karkaroff was showing Snape earlier. So here we get a little hint of the secret Dumbledore and Snape conversations.
Kat: Right. That we were talking about earlier.
Noah: Exactly. But nothing is really spoken up about that. I don’t think Harry latches on.
Kat: I like the spot where Dumbledore is prodding the memories and Bertha Jorkins comes out.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: So the memory says, “He put a hex on me, Professor Dumbledore, and I was only teasing him, sir. I only said I’d seen him kissing Florence behind the greenhouses last Thursday…” I never really thought about that line before, but do you think she’s talking about someone completely random? Because Bertha went to school with the Marauders, correct?
Noah: Ooh.
Kat: Am I wrong?
Noah: I don’t know. But if you’re right, that’s golden.
Michael: Did she? Because didn’t… did Sirius… Sirius knew of her, didn’t he?
Kat: Yes. And I’m pretty sure…
Michael: Did he…
Kat: … he comments that he was in their class.
Michael: Yeah, he summarized her character at least, so he knew about her.
Noah: I feel like Sirius was the most player among them.
Kat: So I don’t know, I just wondered if the “he” that put a hex on Bertha was maybe somebody we know.
Noah: That’s good.
Michael: That would be interesting.
Noah: If any of the listeners have a better idea about that, please send it in.
Kat: Well, because Dumbledore goes on to say, “But why, Bertha, why did you have to follow him in the first place?” And I’m wondering… I feel like there is some sort of connection here that maybe we’ve not ever picked up on.
Noah: But I thought he was talking about either… Wormtail. I thought he was talking about Wormtail.
Kat: No, because Dumbledore is saying why did she have to follow him – whoever the “him” is – behind the greenhouses. Because Dumbledore does not know anything about Wormtail and Bertha and… other than the fact that Bertha was in Albania.
Noah: Oh, for whatever reason, when I read that line I was interpreting it as he wasn’t really talking to Bertha; he was off in his own head again, thinking about the other person she would follow later and somehow he had information. But maybe that’s not possible.
Kat: No, he is in his head and he is talking to Bertha, but he’s talking about the memory Bertha, not current lost Bertha.
Noah: Oh, okay.
Michael: Yeah, I think… Kat is right, he doesn’t know all that stuff yet. Unless we go with the theory…
Noah: Right.
Michael: … that Dumbledore knows way more than he knows. I think it’s interesting that Dumbledore chooses these particular things to show Harry without really saying anything to Harry about them. He just kind of prods his Pensieve and these things come up, and I… it’s kind of like a precursor to Half-Blood Prince with really exploring memories in-depth with Harry. It’s almost in a way like he’s asking for Harry’s help with this because he doesn’t know at this point. I think we get a pretty clear idea that he’s very frustrated in this scene, especially with everything that’s going on. He just has…
Noah: Big time. He’s pulling thoughts out left and right.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: So here’s a great line: “‘So, Harry,’ said Dumbledore quietly. ‘Before you get lost in my thoughts, you wanted to tell me something.'”
[Caleb and Noah laugh]
Noah: I just thought that he’s enjoying that moment a little bit because he knows how brilliant he is. So Harry was just kind of swimming in his memories and he’s liking that.
Kat: And he was just practicing his most inexhaustible form of magic.
Michael: I love Dumbledore’s passive-aggressive commentary on Harry’s behavior.
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: He doesn’t pick up on a thing.
Michael: And his own brilliance.
Noah: Doesn’t pick up on a thing.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: “‘Yes,’ said Harry, ‘Professor, I was in Divination right now, and, uh, I fell asleep.'”
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: “He hesitated here, wondering if a reprimand was coming. But Dumbledore merely said, ‘Quite understandable.'” That was just great, little flip back to Trelawney.”
Michael: “It’s cool. Happens all the time.”
Noah: Dumbledore is well aware that she is great three out of a hundred times, but those three times, she is spot-on.
Michael: Dumbledore sure is willing to subject his students to a lot of bad teachers, isn’t he? [laughs]
Kat: You know what, though? Trelawney knew what happened to Harry in that last chapter. She knew immediately when he was on the floor and he was screaming, she said, “What did you see? What happened? What happened? What happened?” So Trelawney doesn’t get as much credit as she deserves. I truly, truly think that.
Noah: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: That is true that she did know, but at the same time she wanted to use it to exploit Harry for the entertainment purposes of the class.
[Noah laughs]
Kat: Of course she did, but she still knew that something happened.
Michael: Yeah. No, she was aware.
Kat: While everyone else thought he was having a fit. She knew.
Michael: I wouldn’t go to her for counseling.
Noah: “I have seen the Grim! You have the Grim!” Great counselor. That’d be terrible. Anywho, Harry goes into detail about the dream, then they get to talking and Dumbledore mentions that he was the one who suggested to Sirius that they use the mountainside cave as the safest place for them to meet for the Harry in Hogsmeade visit. So I just thought that it was cool how Dumbledore’s pulling strings left and right. And then, Harry asks a little bit more about his scar hurting, and Dumbledore’s put in a little tight spot because he could tell Harry about the Horcruxes but decides not to.
Kat: Because I’m not sure Dumbledore knows quite at this time exactly.
Noah: He says he has a theory, but he doesn’t tell Harry that theory. [laughs]
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Right.
Michael: Well, no, doesn’t he at least say, “Well, I just have a theory that you and Voldemort…”
Kat: Yeah, he says, “I have a theory, no more than that. It is my belief that your scar hurts,” blah blah blah blah blah.
Noah: Right.
Kat: “Because you and he are connected by the curse that failed. That’s no ordinary scar.” But I don’t think Dumbledore knows exactly what just yet.”
Michael: No.
Kat: Just yet. Soon. Soon.
Michael: And as we said before, Dumbledore’s not… Dumbledore likes to present his theories when he has a lot more proof and when he’s more confident in them.
Kat: Right.
Michael: And I don’t think… if he had explained it anymore beyond that, I don’t think Harry would have understood it anyway, fully.
Kat: Right. No, he’s not ready to understand it. He hasn’t gone through his emo phase yet.
Michael: No, I think he gave him an ample explanation for the time being.
Kat: He did.
Noah: I feel like he’ll later say, though, that he should have said something more to Harry. Or am I just making this up?
Kat: That’s in my favorite chapter in the entire series. We’ll get there.
Noah: Yeah, when Dumbledore breaks down, and it’ll be very emotional.
Kat: It’s amazing.
Noah: And then they continue to talk, and they really get to talking about Voldemort because Dumbledore pretty much says it’s very possible – in fact, probable – that what was in his dream was a reality, this seeing Voldemort. And they muse about, does Voldemort have a body to be able to hold a wand? “How indeed,” Dumbledore says. At least the movie, we’ve seen that Dumbledore… sorry, Voldemort has a little baby body.
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Noah: Not a cute baby. It’s a sick, gross, evil baby.
Kat: [laughs] It’s true.
Noah: And all the while, Dumbledore is just… there are a couple of pauses, and Dumbledore is just taking thoughts, putting them into the Pensieve. And I don’t even think these are memories. I think… because these are, of course, what’s going on in his head right now. So here’s an interesting technical question. I was thinking about, if you take a thought and you put it into the Pensieve – or a series of thoughts – and Dumbledore puts his head into the Pensieve, does he just go into a black space where he’s talking to himself or thoughts are coming at him?
Kat: No, he’s… you can’t… it doesn’t work like that. When you go into the Pensieve, you go into a memory.
Noah: No, but I’m saying I don’t think he’s putting in memories now. I think he’s putting in thoughts or small fragments because he puts his…
Kat: Thoughts are memories.
Noah: Yeah, but… does anyone else feel what I’m thinking a little bit?
Kat: No.
Michael: I get what you’re saying, that a thought doesn’t necessarily have a visual…
Noah: … a form. It doesn’t have a space or a form.
Michael: Yeah, yeah. Is he putting literally just musings from him?
Noah: Exactly.
Michael: I don’t know. I don’t know. Is he specifically saying he’s doing that? Because what I thought he was doing when he was doing this as much as he is, I thought he was constantly logging everything that’s going on. I thought he was just going into hyperactive mode because he was like, “Save it for later. Save it for later.”
Noah: Oh, so he’s saving each installment of that experience for the file.
Michael: Yeah. And he just had a long walk around the grounds with Fudge and Moody, too. So there was probably some information there he thought might be necessary. He’s, I think – like you said before – Dumbledore’s really in panic mode right now. You see that a lot more in the acting choices that Gambon made for Goblet, and it’s much more subtle here than that, but Dumbledore is in panicky mode and he really jsut has no idea what to do next because in the end he just lets the Third Task play out.
[Noah laughs]
Michael: And we know how that turned out. [laughs] So yeah, I think it’s just logging everything he can think of at this point.
Noah: That makes much more sense to me. I think that’s good.
Michael: Because I don’t think you can put just an idle thought into the Pensieve.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: No. I agree.
Noah: So I thought as I was reading that, and I just got excited about the visual possibilities for that, I think.
Michael: No, but that’s okay because it’s part of the podcast Question, so maybe our listeners can come up with some good answers for that.
Noah: We’re almost done with the chapter here. Thank you for bearing with all these notes. Then Harry learns the truth about Neville’s parents when he realizes that the Longbottoms that Little Crouch, Bellatrix, and he rest had tortured were actually Neville’s parents. And Dumbledore’s shocked to learn that Neville’s hasn’t spoken about it to the other students…
Kat: It breaks my heart.
Noah: … which is true, and he’s struggling with it.
Caleb: I don’t really get why Dumbledore’s surprised. It’s not something that…
Michael: … you share.
Caleb: … most people would talk about.
Kat: And they’re not that close to Neville, let’s be honest.
Noah: Well, yeah.
Michael: Yeah, that really hit me this reread more than any other. Maybe it’s another thing with age, but this reread has really shown me how horrible the trio – especially Ron and Harry – can be to Neville when they’re not around him.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: They don’t speak of him very kindly.
Noah: Yeah.
Michael: And this makes that nastiness hit pretty hard. This is the… oh hell, why not, I openly cried at this, this time. This reading. I haven’t cried at this part. It’s been sad to me before, but I guess the full weight of what’s going on with this reveal…
Noah: Yeah, that’s cool. You can always cry at Harry Potter.
Michael: Oh, yeah – and I have – but this particular moment, this was the first time that really hit me, just how tragic it is from the realization that Harry’s been a bit mean to Neville, or at least just hasn’t acknowledged Neville as anything important.
Noah: Yeah.
Kat: Which… yeah. They could be reversed places, for all Harry knows.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: They could have been. “The Boy Who Could Have Been.”
Kat: Mhm, exactly.
Noah: And then Harry asks about Snape, and I thought this was very interesting because it was the last moment when he’s asking about his scar, and Dumbledore has to make a calculated decision about what he’s going to say. And what he does say is, “That is between Snape and myself. I can’t tell you.” That’s not the exact quote. But that’s basically what he says.
Caleb: Yeah.
Noah: And Harry takes that as the final note to leave, and Harry notes that Dumbledore is looking older than ever. And this isn’t the first time that this comes up in the chapter. I think it’s like three times that Harry notes how older Dumbledore is looking.
Kat: Mhm.
Noah: I guess I want to ask you guys – because I’m not quite sure myself – why is this the chapter the time that Harry’s thinking about Dumbledore’s mortality so much? Or that Dumbledore seems to exude that sense of mortality?
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: I think – and sorry to reiterate constantly this point but – I think this is why I like this the way it is written, verses the film is because again – as I have said, this is the third time I’m saying this now in the podcast – the film Goblet of Fire has no subtlety whatsoever.
[Noah laughs]
Michael: The book, the way Dumbledore is written and treated in particular, is very subtle in how it portrays Dumbledore’s lack… or he’s losing control over a very severe situation, I think.
Noah: Right.
Michael: Because then we finally see this completely break down in the next book.
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: When all control is gone. [laughs]
Caleb: I think the Goblet of Fire movie is a lot to miss the subtly of this book.
Kat: A lot, yeah.
Michael: Yes, and this, as far as character, is a major subtle point for Dumbledore and that it is to me saying Dumbledore has no idea what to do next, he has no control, he has no game plan. It’s like – to bring Sherlock again, Kat – when you turn to Sherlock Holmes and say, “You always have a plan! What’s the plan?” And he’s like, “I don’t know.” [laughs]
Kat: He just says, “I haven’t figured it out yet.” Yeah, exactly.
Michael: Yep, it’s that terrifying realization that the person you always go to for authority and for a solution doesn’t know what to do.
Kat: I just had a thought. So Jo has said this is the book that she felt most rushed on. Do you think at this point – she’s writing Dumbledore and she has said that Dumbledore is her basically – do you think that maybe she was going through some inner turmoil of her own and wasn’t quite sure where to go?
Michael: Ooh.
Noah: Good one, nice.
Michael: I like that.
Kat: I know.
Noah: That’s all I have to say.
Michael: Wouldn’t that be interesting if that is that case? Because in a way, it’s funny to me that Jo looks down on her work on this book because for whatever faults it may have, I do think it is the best crafted mystery in the series.
Caleb: Yeah, definitely.
Kat: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Michael: Of the entire series. Chamber of Secrets maybe runs at a close second, but this one takes the cake.
Kat: No, this is a world-class mystery, this book.
Michael: Yeah. It would be interesting to think that she would have… it’s almost the trait that she thought was her greatest failing while writing, this is actually what fed the success of the book because if Dumbledore had figured it out by this point, where would the excitement be?
Kat: Right. I don’t know. I just thought it was a good question to ask her.
Michael: Yeah.
Noah: That ends the chapter discussion. This was a really great chapter.
Kat: An excellent chapter. One of my favorites is next week. Looking forward to that.
Michael: Oh my gosh, next week is so exciting.
Kat: I know, I can’t wait.
Caleb: Is it the Third Task?
Kat: It is.
Michael: Yes! Oh my God. [laughs] What I wouldn’t kill to be an audience member, although you couldn’t really see anything. [laughs] But to close the episode out, we’re going to go into the Podcast Question of the Week. And this week, I know Noah was pondering this a lot throughout the chapter discussion, and these were the questions that came to my mind a lot, too. This is almost a Questions of the Week. But in this chapter, we are introduced to the Pensieve with Dumbledore saying that it relieves the feeling of having “too many thoughts and memories crammed into one’s head.” Dumbledore goes on to describe the process of using the Pensieve saying, “One simply siphons the excess thoughts from one’s mind and pours them into the basin.” So questions: How exactly does the magic of this device work? How do you use your wand to pick a memory, and in doing so are you actually removing the memory from your brain or are you making a magical copy of it? How many memories can one Pensieve hold? Is the substance alone or the bowl alone what operates the magic, or both? How do you escape – get out of the memory – and what happens when you journey beyond the memories edge?
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: So I know that’s a lot of questions, but there are a lot of questions that this device raises. I have the feeling that in the installment on Pottermore with this chapter, she will explain some of this. But sometimes Pottermore can only go so deep with these things, so I’m worried all of these questions won’t be answered. So I’d love to see what you listeners think about this. So make sure and go to the Alohomora! main site and answer the question and post.
Kat: And Jo, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Michael: And, Jo, give me a good write-up on this, please, for Pottermore.
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Kat: So next week, we’re going to be back having guest hosts. So if any of you out there listening want to be our guest host for next week, you know where to find out how to do it. Go to the “Be on the Show” page at alohomora.mugglenet.com. And, as always, we’d like to remind you to have appropriate audio equipment. Thank you very much.
Caleb: And if you’d like to connect with us, you can do so on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN or on Facebook at facebook.com/openthedumbledore. You can give us a ring at 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287. And you can also log onto iTunes and leave us a review, and we love to read those so make sure you do that. And you can also leave us a comment or question or anything relating to our discussion using Audioboo. You’re able to leave us a message directly on alohomora.mugglenet.com. There’s a side panel that’s dedicated to Audiooo. It can be played on the show, it’s free, and all you need is a microphone.
Noah: And we want to talk about the store again. We have T-shirts… I actually just ordered my Desk!Pig and Mandrake Liberation Front shirts. I’ll be wearing them proudly at LeakyCon.
Kat: And we have an amazing deal: It’s free shipping right now for the next couple of days. So definitely go and order, right?
Noah: Yes.
Kat: I think the code is LOVELY14.
Noah: It is LOVELY14 when you check out. And we have tote bags, sweatshirts, flip-flops, water bottles, travel mugs, everything you could think of. Ringtones as well. Over 80 products to choose from. Get your Alohomora! swag now while it’s hot.
Kat: “Swag” means stuff we all get, so swag is free stuff. They’re not free.
Noah: Well, it’s not free.
Michael: So get the swag that costs money.
[Kat laughs]
Noah: It is swag… it is pricey swag that will cost money.
Kat: Pricey swag. Okay, fair enough.
[Michael and Noah laugh]
Noah: You can say it’s free, if you want.
Kat: But it’s not pricey! It’s not pricey…
Noah: It’s not.
Kat: … for the record. It’s not pricey. It’s pretty cheap.
Michael: You can get it for the low, low price of money.
[Kat and Noah laugh]
Michael: And this podcast is not the only place where we’ve been storing our memories and thoughts. We also have an app – our second Pensieve – which is available seemingly worldwide. Prices vary depending on your location. The app includes transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and more. Lots of memories for you to check out. So go take a swim in our Pensieve… no, that is not a dirty joke, but I’m sure you will take it as such.
Noah: And I’d like to make a special announcement. We have recently met with this Snapchat artist; his name is Michael Platco. We found him on Twitter – he was actually featured on BuzzFeed and Mashable – and he offered to do Snaps for us. He created a Snapchat account for us called mn_alohomora. It already has about 150 followers, and his idea is to create Snaps based on each episode and send them out to everybody, just so that while we are reading the chapter we can be entertained on our phones by these fun Snaps.
Kat: And we’ll throw up a gallery on the site and your Snaps will be seen by the world. So…
Noah: Well, that actually leads me to my second part of this announcement, [which] is that… surprise, fan challenge! We want you guys to send us Snapchats based on the chapter we just read and the chapter coming up. There [were] lots of interesting visual things happening in this chapter with Harry putting his face in a Pensieve or having a book for a head.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: You don’t have to be the greatest artist, but if you are at all inspired by this latest chapter, please send us your Snaps and we’ll call you out on the next episode if we like them, and feature them as much as we can. Just send them all to mn_alohomora. We’re very excited.
Michael: Noah, what was the thing you were saying [that] you were going to say for the episode about Jim the Dementor and Valentine’s Day again?
Noah: Oh, oh, oh! Oh man, okay. That was the thing.
Michael: I thought maybe that was going to be the Snapchat thing…
Noah: That was the Snapchat [thing], sorry. Please send Jim the Dementor Snaps to the same account – Valentine’s Day cards.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Okay.
Noah: Jim the Dementor, he lives a very lonely life. It’s @JimTheDementor on Twitter.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: His life is just really tough. It’s like being in Azkaban. It’s like this classic scene – he actually gets away and he floats around Hogwarts with his friend Bob from time to time. They drop in on the Mandrakes and suck a couple of Mandrake souls. It’s really…
Kat: Wow, genocide!
Michael: That’s dark. [laughs]
Noah: There’s a whole narrative going on, but he’s having a really lonely time. He’d really appreciate some Snaps.
Kat: Which I would like to remind our listeners – the narrative is Noah, talking to Noah, talking to Noah…
Noah: Yes.
Kat: Just throwing that out there.
Noah: Because I’m not talking to you all.
Kat: We’ve missed you, buddy.
Michael: [laughs] It’s as real as you believe it to be, right? [laughs]
Noah: I mean, I talk to myself a lot anyway, so it’s just a cool way to use it. But anyway…
Michael: I do too. Maybe it’s a Hufflepuff thing, Noah. [laughs]
Kat: Must be. I talk to my cats, so…
Caleb: Yep.
Michael: That is a great ending line.
Caleb: And on that note…
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: … that’s going to do it for this week’s episode of Alohomora!
[Show music begins]
Caleb: I’m Caleb Graves.
Noah: I’m Noah Fried.
Michael: I’m Michael Harle.
Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 68 of Alohomora!
Noah: Open the Dumbledore!
[Show music continues]
Noah: … talk to each other…
Kat: Do you think this is Jim?
Noah: What?
Kat: Do you think this is Jim, here with Karkaroff?
[Michael laughs]
Noah: No…
Kat: No?
Noah: … I don’t think Jim is there.
Caleb: Jim is not allowed to leave Azkaban.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Noah: Jim is unfortunately stuck with his wife, which in its way is his own private Azkaban.
Kat: Aww.
Caleb: Wow, damn!
Kat: He’s not happily married?
[Everyone laughs]
Noah: It’s not a happy relationship, but he is looking for a date for Valentine’s Day.
Kat: [laughs] I’m sure you’re free, right?
Michael: [laughs] Well, he’s a good kisser.
Kat: Oh! Ba dum bing.
Noah: He’s a great kisser. [laughs]
Kat: There it is. [unintelligible]
Caleb: I’ll take your word for it.
Michael: Take your breath away.
Kat: [laughs] Oh my God.
Noah: [laughs] There are some great Valentine’s Day cards that… Oh, you know what? That gives me an idea.
[Michael laughs]
Noah: I’m going to save that idea for the end of the show.
Caleb: Great.
