Transcripts

Transcript – Episode 53

[Show music begins]

Eric Scull: This is Episode 53 of Alohomora! for October 19, 2013.

[Show music continues]

Eric: Hello everybody, and welcome to Alohomora! I’m Eric Scull.

Rosie Morris: I’m Rosie Morris.

Caleb Graves: And I’m Caleb Graves. And our special fan guest today is Hadas Ben-Tsur. Hey, Hadas!

Hadas Ben-Tsur: Hi, guys!

Caleb: How’s it going?

Hadas: I’m good. How are you?

Caleb: We’re great. Thanks for joining us today.

Hadas: Thank you for having me.

Caleb: Why don’t you tell the Alohomora! listeners a little bit about yourself?

Hadas: Oh, man. Well, I was a Classics major in school and I’m currently working on my Master’s thesis, and I’m working on a little side project as well so that’s what my life is up to at the moment. I’m a Gryffindor.

Caleb: Yeah!

Hadas: I’m sure that interests you. [laughs] Actually, I’m very surprised that I’m a Gryffindor. I don’t think I’m that brave, but I do have nerve, so maybe that’s it.

Rosie: What are you doing for your Master’s thesis? Speaking as someone who’s just finished one. [laughs]

Hadas: Okay. Yeah, I know! I’m so excited that you’re here, literary too. I’m doing my Master’s thesis on English literature. I’m comparing this Greek novel… the Greek novels are actually really, really rare – a lot of people don’t know about them. So I’m comparing one of the Greek novels to Jane Austen’s Emma and trying to find a link between them, saying that one influenced the other. It’s actually very hard, but it’s a lot of fun.

Rosie: It sounds cool. Good.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Okay, well, for the rest of you found out there. We need to start by reminding you all to read Chapter 15 of Goblet of Fire, which is “Beauxbatons and Durmstrang.”

Eric: Yes. We will wait now for you to read that chapter.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Eric: Have I said that joke before? Have I already…

Caleb: Maybe.

Eric: It feels like I’ve said that before. I’m sorry.

Caleb: But it’s a worthwhile one to repeat.

Eric: Okay, okay. So we’ll wait. But no, in the meantime we do have some downtime here because we’d like to source some of your comments from the previous chapter [that] we read on Alohomora!, which was Chapter 14 of Goblet of Fire. We’ve got a few comments here from our fantastic listeners. The first one comes from cassandra1447 regarding Snape’s bitterness. They say,

“I’m wondering if Snape isn’t anxious about his past coming back to haunt him and that’s why he’s being meaner than usual. Last year, he was able to play the hero/victim in his own mind with Sirius and Lupin because he saw them as the ones who bullied him. This year, he has two people – Moody and Karkaroff – at Hogwarts who know about his Death Eater days during which Snape was the ‘evil’ person. Plus, considering the Death Eaters at the World Cup and any suspicions Dumbledore might have confided in him, Snape might well be worried about the return of Voldemort. Let’s face it, Snape has a decent, safe life right now. Voldemort’s return would force him to become a spy again, which is dangerous (not to mention the threat to everyone in general of a returned Dark Lord).”

Caleb: I thought that this person brought up a lot of good comments that we really didn’t take into consideration last week, but definitely make sense.

Rosie: Yeah, I never thought about that kind of role reversal for Snape before, where last year he was the hero and now he’s the villain. It’s really interesting to think about him in that way.

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: Hmm, I see it as old school friends coming to town too, [laughs] and they know what you were like when you were in school, and you’re just like, “Oh, gosh, man. I wish… because I’m a different person now!”

Caleb: Yeah. But also these grayish characters, like Karkaroff is and that’s not the exact position but somewhat similar to Snape, a former Death Eater but has in some way redeemed himself to a pretty good job, so…

Eric: It’s actually remarkable how many Death Eaters or how many former Death Eaters are at Hogwarts this year.

[Eric and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: I don’t know if that was mentioned last time, but how many people with the Dark Mark tattoo? That sort of thing. But anyway, moving on, we have our next comment from Elderdeb regarding Moody/Crouch’s Unforgivable demonstration:

“For the first time, it occurred to me that perhaps C/M set up that entire display to put the relationship in motion with Neville. He had to set up rather early how he was going to get Harry through the Second Task. Who, better than Crouch, knew that a demonstration of the Cruciatus Curse would more than likely have a profound effect on Neville? He was the one other person in the room who was aware of what happened to the Longbottoms, and how brilliant that the Auror Moody would have known too. I really feel like this was the entire reason for the lesson. Getting to demonstrate the Killing curse with Harry present was just a bonus.”

Hadas: I absolutely hate this. Not the idea. If it’s true, then I hate Crouch for that. When the first time you read this, it doesn’t really register with you what’s going on because you don’t know. You don’t know about Neville. But when I read it the second time, he’s so cruel! And when you see him in the movie also, I hated watching that scene when he goes to comfort Neville and you just know it’s fake…

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: It’s just I’m very emotional about these books. I’m sure you all are.

[Caleb laughs]

Hadas: The other part I was just thinking right now is that when we see his scene in the Pensieve, he’s so passive. He’s crying out to his father but he doesn’t seem like the type to be so violent, and this is really showing another side to him. When he was younger, that is.

Eric: Mhm.

Caleb: Yeah, I think…

Rosie: It…

Caleb: Go ahead, Rosie.

Rosie: [laughs] It shows how new to the situation that Moody/Crouch is as well. If he’s deliberately setting up everything for the Second Task, which we can all agree that he is, then it shows that he’s not really clear on who Harry’s friends are yet because if you were going to make sure Harry talks to someone, it’s got to be Ron or it’s got to be Hermione. He goes for Neville, who, yes, is in that same dormitory, but he’s not part of that unit yet. It’s not until next year that he really joins. So it’s interesting to see Crouch fail slightly at this moment as well.

Caleb: That’s a really good point, but if you also think about it, if you take it to the next step, maybe he thought he would be more effective with someone who’s loosely tied with Harry than someone who is very close to him.

Hadas: Or also someone who loves Herbology and that’s in the range.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: That’s true, yeah.

Hadas: Yeah.

Eric: Well, he…

Caleb: That is a good question to think about: How well do we think Moody… well, Crouch has… how good of and idea does he have about Harry’s relationships because that’s obviously very important to his plan.

Eric: Crouch is really smart. It’s a shame he just has that breakdown at the end of the year, right? [laughs]

Caleb: Right.

Eric: Everybody really likes to like… there are a lot of good reasons to like Crouch in this book, which I think we’ll talk later, but ultimately he is showing them the Unforgivable Curses, which is useful – no one can deny it – and of course he inspires Harry to be an Auror and all that other stuff, so… anyway, continuing on, same topic. DolphinPatronus says,

“I also find Kat’s comment about Dumbledore thinking, ‘I’m gonna let you go before anything happens to you,’ a bit ironic since something bad really does happen to Moody. This also got me thinking… what do we think Crouch’s intention was with Moody once the school year ended? Do we think he intended to continue to act as Moody or was his plan to eventually kill Moody off once he served his purpose?”

Rosie: Yeah, so this is referring to the curse on the DADA position, so Dumbledore only hired Moody for the one year, we said to protect him last year.

Eric: Mhm.

Rosie: But then something bad happened to him anyway. It’s interesting. Is this the curse kicking in before it’s actually happened, do you reckon? That it was actually… that’s why Moody got attacked?

Eric: Hmm.

Rosie: Or would it have happened anyway? [laughs]

Eric: Yeah…

Rosie: It’s hard to know what’s involved. [laughs]

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: Well, I was trying to think two years later, where they go and get Slughorn to protect Slughorn because Slughorn is one the run, but it’s not really the same because he’s a Potions teacher instead of a DADA, and there’s all that, so…

Hadas: Well, I was trying to think of the other teachers and whether they had trouble before the year started, and I guess Quirrell was one, but he went out and found it, right? So I don’t know.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: I don’t think he was looking for it, though. [laughs]

Hadas: Right, right.

Rosie: Trouble found him.

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Eric: Olly olly oxen free!

Hadas: Okay. [laughs]

Rosie: But yeah, Lockhart definitely didn’t have trouble before he got there. He’s just annoying.

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: In so many ways.

Eric: Okay, so what do you guys think his intentions were with Moody at the end of the year, per this question?

Rosie: Definitely would have killed him.

Caleb: Yeah. I think so.

Eric: Oh, really?

Caleb and Rosie: Yeah.

Eric: Okay.

Rosie: This is a guy that basically sent him to Azkaban. He’s the reason why everything went wrong the first time.

Hadas: Actually, now that I think about it, it would be so much more effective if he could continue controlling him and get into the Order because now Voldemort is back, and now he’ll have a guy in there.

Rosie: That’s true.

Eric: Hmm.

Caleb: I guess the thought is, though, if everything would have gone according to plan, Voldemort would have killed Harry in the graveyard, so…

Hadas: Oh, okay.

Eric: Oh, wow.

Caleb: … Voldemort is kind of successful at that point.

Eric: [laughs] So all the plans kind of stop there.

Caleb: Yeah. I feel like Moody is very disposable.

Hadas: It’s so hard to play “what if?” [laughs] There are so many roads.

Caleb: Yeah, definitely.

Eric: [laughs] Well, just regarding this topic, there were a lot more great comments and discussion on both the main site and especially our Alohomora! forums, so we do encourage our listeners to read and discuss and talk a little more about Moody and Crouch on last week’s forum. And our final comment comes from suprememugwump. This is regarding Veritaserum’s abilities. They say,

“Caleb’s question was really interesting… Could you answer something you ‘didn’t know’ when under the influence of Veritaserum? I think not. The way I see it, the Imperius Curse saps your free will, and it’s only through repeated and prolonged exposure that you build up a tolerance to it. Veritaserum functions similarly. The description of Crouch Jr. when he’s being questioned at the end of this book is very passive. His head ‘lolls,’ he looks ‘blank,’ he almost behaves like he’s high on a sedative. Only when Dumbledore asks him questions does he respond in a monotone. I’ve always had the image of a Pensieve, with a memory floating to the surface when someone asks you a question. But the Imperius Curse (which I think is more powerful as it has multiple applications while Veritaserum only has one) could block a memory, and I don’t think Veritaserum could penetrate deep enough to pull the answer out from there. Maybe in a person who had built up some tolerance, but even then only maybe…”

Rosie: That’s a really interesting idea, that the Imperius Curse can stop Veritaserum from working.

Caleb: Mhm. Yup. I think also you would have to think about how skillful is the person who cast the Imperius Curse, how long has it been put on the person, maybe even if we think proximity has something to do with it. There’s a lot of factors that could come into that.

Rosie: Either way, you wouldn’t want either of them used on you.

[Caleb and Eric laugh]:

Caleb: Exactly.

Eric: Yeah.

Caleb: So real.

Rosie: So while we’re on the topic of the Imperius Curse, our Question of the Week last week was all about the Unforgivable Curses, and it asked, or it said: While there is some history on the Unforgivable Curses, we don’t know the story of their birth: the person(s) behind them, the motivations, the immediate consequences, or much else at all. That’s what we asked you guys: What do you think happened? And what could have brought on these horrible and incredible curses into being? Thank you, guys, for your responses to this. We’ve had an amazing response yet again with all of you guys talking to each other other in the thread underneath the main site post, which is brilliant. We love seeing those. Please keep doing that. So we’ll start us off with a comment from Gus and it says,

“In terms of the origin of the curses, I believe that the Killing Curse and ‘Crucio’ are ancient dark magic. But I think that the Imperius Curse is modern. Muggle and Magic histories are usually intimately entwined. I think that the Imperius Curse was invented at the time as the rise of the great totalitarian regime: Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, etc., specifically when Dumbledore and Grindelwald were young and ambitious. The curse was invented on the wave of the political battle between Liberalism and Totalitarianism, I’ve always believed that dark wizards were the puppeteers of these regimes utilising the newly invented Imperius Curse as they attempted to create their supposed utopian societies.”

Caleb: Nice.

Eric: Hmm, I like the idea that one of them is newer than the rest.

Caleb: Yeah, I do too.

Rosie: Mhm.

Eric: Kind of like, “Just as bad. It’s the new boss in town.”

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: Yeah, the reason why I like this comment is because it’s something that Jo has done on Pottermore several times. I can think of right now the Malfoy family history, how she so easily and it’s so well done how she weaves the magical history into the real Muggle history…

Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: … that we know, so that is the line that this is going on. So I really like it.

Rosie: It’s a way of making the magical world a real, living world, isn’t it? By making…

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: … tying it into our history and therefore offering the idea that it will have a future. There could be a fourth Unforgivable Curse in the future that someone hasn’t invented yet.

Caleb: Mmm, yeah. Also, it lets us all cling to the hope that it might all actually still be real.

[Caleb, Eric, and Rosie laugh]

Eric: Saying that Harry Potter isn’t real is the fourth Unforgivable Curse.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Spoilers! Spoilers of the fourth Unforgivable Curse. All those people who said Dumbledore dies, ugh!

Eric: Oh.

Rosie: [laughs] Did you know that you can also create anonymous messages on our main site, and this message is one of these. It just says “Guest,” so thank you, whoever you were, Guest. And it says,

“My feeling is that all curses arose from the creativity and motivations/intentions of individual wizards in a gradual way over time. Some wizards wishing to create ever darker more troublesome spells did so as need or appetite dictated. Eventually the powers that be, and possibly pressured by the greater community, decided to single out the three nastiest as ‘Unforgiveable’ and capable of landing you in Azkaban for life. Not unlike our own history where devious criminals and psychopaths have devised methods of murder and torture more grisly than the last. Or arguably institutionalized control, torture, and murder as conducted by nations or churches. Inqusition? Khmer Rouge, Stalin, Hitler… Hiroshima? Waterboarding and mustard gas didn’t just appear, but developed over time. One thing for certain though, control was the goal. Pain and death being the primary threats, but control the real point.”

This is motivation behind the spells.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: You guys have some real chilling ideas.

Caleb: Yeah.

Hadas: [laughs] But also…

Rosie: No wonder this one’s left by Guest.

Caleb: Well, good, that people don’t hold back and get that darker out. I dig it.

Rosie: Yes. So yeah, the spells existed when people made them, but they were classified later on. Someone commented that it was 1771, or some time like that? And yeah, our Muggle history shows that evil things – or just very bad things if you don’t like the “good or evil” classification – were created by Muggles, so why couldn’t wizards create bad things in the pursuit of power? Maybe of torture or of punishment as well. I mean, there’s no real difference between the Killing Curse and corporal punishment other than both of them are now banned, but both of them perhaps were not banned in the past.

Eric: This just made me think of a question really quick. Do you think that if Snape’s spell, the Sectumsempra, were wider known that it too would become an Unforgivable Curse?

Hadas: That’s such a hard question. I actually have an answer to that in relation to the next comment we’re going to talk about.

Eric: Oh, okay.

[Rosie laughs]

Hadas: But I also wanted to say that I love that comment about the 1771…

Rosie: Yes.

Hadas: … where the person linked it to the three – what is it – liberty, pursuit of happiness. I thought that was really, really creative. I love that.

Rosie: Yeah. There are lots and lots of great comments on the site.

Hadas: Mhm.

Rosie: Obviously we can’t read them all out in our show, even as much as we’d love to. So make sure you do read through them as well whilst you’re listening because there’s a lot more great information out there that you guys have suggested. I think I chose a section of that comment but not that bit, sadly.

[Hadas laughs]

Rosie: There was one that was linking the effects of the Unforgivables to the American promise of… I can’t remember what it is.

Hadas: Freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I think.

Rosie: Yes. So it was showing that the opposite of those three are the Unforgivables.

Caleb: Hmm… yeah.

Rosie: But this is a British book! And we don’t have those here!

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: No such freedoms in Britain.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: To compare to.

Rosie: Congratulations you guys on getting your government back, by the way.

Caleb: Yeah, it’s very nice…

Eric: Oh.

Caleb: … that we can operate again.

Eric: Woo-hoo!

Hadas: Well, you say it’s a British book but what about all of those Nazi reminiscent things that were happening? That’s Germany, even though it’s still Europe.

Rosie: That was…

Hadas: Still a different country.

Rosie: We were involved in that war as well.

Eric: Yeah, but we won that war.

Hadas: But you were also kind of involved with us. You’re like the parents we ran away from.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: Very true.

Caleb: I love that analogy.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Moving on. We will do this next comment because you wanted to tie in the Sectumsempra Curse here.

Hadas: Mhm.

Rosie: So SpectacularlyHypothetical, which is a brilliant name, says,

“The thing I always find interesting about the Unforgivable Curses is what is NOT on the list. Certainly murder, enslavement, and torture are some of the worst crimes humans can commit. However, if you ask anyone to list the most heinous crimes, surely rape will be high on the list. We do have a magical version of rape in the form of amortentia and other love potions. We see from Merope Gaunt’s experience that it is possible to enslave someone using one of these potions and for them to go so far to sleep with, and to beget a child. How does the magical world police these? Lightly enough for them to be freely available in a joke-shop. Also what about Legilimency? This is forcible invasion of another’s thoughts, if the technology to do this became available in the Muggle world I am convinced misuse of this technology would rapidly shoot to the top of any list of the worst crimes we can commit. Again, we see both Dumbledore and Snape having few scruples in this regard, just casually casting a glance into teenager’s minds time and again. We also see what Voldemort can achieve using Legilimency, it’s not pretty. Why is this considered ‘forgiveable’ behaviour? I’d certainly find it very hard to forgive someone who did either to me.”

Caleb: Well, it’s very interesting [that] you point out technology linking to Legilimency, considering all the… at least in the States in the past four to five months, all of the NSA wire-tapping news that has been going on…

Rosie: Yeah, true.

Caleb: … because that is exactly what I thought about when I was thinking about this comment. And maybe that lends us some ideas about why it isn’t considered Unforgiveable because it’s something, I don’t know, perhaps so much more ellusive than those three that we do know. But it’s definitely a good point to bring up about Amortentia and how far it can go.

Hadas: Right.

Eric: What I’m reminded of is the… it’s a quote from J.K. Rowling. She either said it or she acknowledged it when a fan said it, but essentially that Voldemort could not know love because he was conceived under the effects of a love potion.

Caleb: Mhm.

Eric: And that basically… what that amounts to is that actual clinical psychopaths are created – or will be created – if you have a child under a love potion. It seems like you could almost say, okay, every single time. Well, if that’s the case then – and certainly following Voldemort’s demise – I can see love potions… if that were to ever get out, love potions would be taken a little bit more seriously. I can’t think he’d be the only example of a child coming out of a love potion, but I think it is right to question, “Well, how well are they regulated?” because in the case of making Voldemort, that caused a lot of death.

Rosie: Turned out a bit badly.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Just a bit.

Hadas: It’s so interesting because Amortentia is an item, so you can police…

Rosie: Yeah.

Hadas: … the sale of the item.

Caleb: Mhm.

Hadas: But I guess people can make potions in their home. I don’t know how that works. I don’t know if there [are] specific ingredients that a seller will regulate the size of or something… I’m going way too deep, but I was just thinking about… some of these things are… their emotional damage… I thought of Obliviate. Hermione seems to do that… she does that to her parents before the Ministry falls down. So if there was some sort of trace on that, then she would have gotten in trouble. I know she does it later to the people in the cafe, but that’s when everything breaks loose over there. So that’s also something very dangerous; we see what happened with Mr. [Roberts]. I don’t know why that’s not regulated. Maybe it’s because they’re just so hard to enforce. How do they know when this is happening?

Eric: Yeah. I mean, ultimately, too, the government does need to use Obliviate fairly more often than I would think they need to use Avada Kedavra, but then again that may just be a sign of the times. But getting back to my question about Sectumsempra here, when Harry uses it he’s completely ill-prepared to deal with the consequences.

Rosie: Yeah. But I think…

Eric: And Draco is essentially being sliced open by the spell and basically bleeding out. And if it weren’t for Snape’s very unusual brand of remedy for it – something like that – you can’t possibly expect people to survive that curse.

Rosie: But I think if that curse was out there, then the countercurse would be out there with it as well.

Hadas: In the movie-verse…

Eric: But the countercurse isn’t really a countercurse in the typical sense.

Rosie: That we know of. Because Snape’s the one who uses it, and we don’t actually see what he does. As far as I know.

Eric: I always thought it was more complex than just muttering a spell because he’s got to continually repeat something, and there seems to be a physical motion involved around the wound and this sort of thing, so I don’t know. To me I think you’d have to be pretty darn advanced to be able to countercurse. It’s easier to cast it than it is to fix it.

Rosie: Yes. Definitely.

Eric: For that reason the curse is dangerous.

Rosie: But I think that’s true of many things. There are many, many things that probably could actually hurt people. I mean, think of all those magical plants and things we see that have the power to hurt people as well and all of the different kinds of ingredients that they use, that they need to use gloves and things for, that could potentially be harmful. There is a lot of risk involved in the magical world and they can’t call everything Unforgivable because otherwise they’d have nothing left to use. [laughs] And I think… I do think that Sectumsempra isn’t as severe as some of the Unforgivables. It’s very bad, yes, and it probably would be controlled and anyone using it would be charged or whatever and would have some jail time, but the Unforgivables are meant to be the three worst things that you can do. Which, it asks the question of the levels that… those three together, you’ve got death, incredible, incredible pain, and slavery. And the idea that controlling someone is as bad as… taking away their freedom is as bad as taking away their life. Not including that with the other spells that we know of that can do really bad things, like you said – I think everyone said – was that Amortentia, that’s taking away their freedom of emotions.

Caleb and Hadas: Mhm.

Rosie: But I think with Amortentia, there are kind of degrees of it. I’m guessing that the Weasley twins are using a very kind of watered-down version within their shop. And we see the ramifications of that when Ron suffers, but that was because the potion gets stronger, which is even worse. A potion gets stronger if it’s left for a while.

[Eric and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Always check those “best before” dates.

Hadas: Yes.

Caleb: Hmm.

[Hadas laughs]

Rosie: But yeah, there are several things that you kind of consider should be involved with the Unforgivables, as sanctioned as much as those are, but perhaps not as badly. Yeah. Okay, moving onto the next comment. [laughs] There’s actually a really nice discussion on the main site of all of these and of other people’s suggestions of what else could be included in a list of Unforgivables… or almost Unforgivables. So do go on and join that if you have any other ideas of things that could be considered in that way. But we have a comment from WorldsOddestMan. Thank you so much for joining us in this conversation.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: And it says…

Eric: I thought I was the world’s oddest man. Hmm.

Rosie: Well, did you write this comment?

Eric: No.

Rosie: Then it wasn’t you.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Okay.

Rosie: It says,

“I like to think that each of the Unforgivable Curses maybe connected to (if not created because of) each of the Deathly Hallows. We know that to use an Unforgivable Curse you need to truly be meaning the intent of the curse and the intent to create the curses may have been caused by the desire for or effects of the Deathly Hallows.

Firstly, the Elder Wand and the Killing Curse. It is said that the ‘where the Elder Wand goes Death follows.’ The Killing Curse would probably have been created by a witch or wizard whose intense desire and focus to gain the Elder Wand would have driven them to use it against it’s master. Yes, the Elder Wand is the most powerful wand there is but if the master was assassinated outside of a duel, it would be possible.

Secondly, the Resurrection Stone and the Cruciatus Curse. The Resurrection Stone can drive those who want to reconnect with the deceased loved ones mad. The Cruciatus Curse could have been created by someone who had experienced these effects of the Resurrection Stone and in turn wanted those who were responsible for the death of their loved ones to feel the agonising pain that they feel themselves.

Finally, the Invisibility Cloak and the Imperius Curse. I can’t connect the creation between the the Imperius Curse and the Invisibility Cloak but they do have opposing effects. The Invisibility Cloak makes you physically disappear while the Imperius Curse make you mentally and emotionally disappear. As a result the Imperius Curse takes away a persons free will while the Invisibility Cloak can arguably gives the user a greater free will, being able to do things prohibited by law and/or society (the loss of a persons free will is the reason why I believe it’s considered Unforgivable because on the surface the spell could be used and abused for good as much as for evil).”

It’s really interesting to kind of link those two triplicate ideas.

Caleb: Yeah. This is why Harry Potter fans are the most awesome because…

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: … you can come up with… as long as we’ve been around the books, and then someone comes along with a theory like this that… I mean, I’ve never heard something like this put together – and obviously there are different ways you can rationalize stuff – but what a cool way to try to put them together.

Rosie: Mhm.

Hadas: Yeah.

Eric: I thought it was definitely nice… something nice to read…

Caleb: Definitely.

Eric: … and consider.

Rosie: It doesn’t even matter if it wasn’t an intention by Jo; it’s still a really amazing idea.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: And if you’re having these brilliant ideas, then you should write your own books because everyone will buy them and… [unintelligible]

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: But while you’re prepping for that book, you can always write on our forums and our main page [laughs] and share it with us for free.

Rosie: Indeed.

Eric: Thank you so much. We’re poor, we’re poor!

Rosie: [laughs] So yeah, another amazing comment. I don’t think there’s really much more we can say about it, but it was just so amazing; I could not put it in…

Caleb: Definitely. All right, we’re going to move on to the discussion for this week’s chapter.

[Goblet of Fire Chapter 15 intro begins]

Beauxbatons student: Chapter 15.

[Sounds of a crowd and horses whinnying]

Beauxbatons student: “Beauxbatons and Durmstrang.”

[Goblet of Fire Chapter 15 intro ends]

Caleb: And at the beginning of this chapter, Harry is still very worried about what he might have done to Sirius, having just received correspondence that Sirius is on his way. So Harry writes to Sirius, telling him he just imagined his scar hurting and that… the quote is, “My head feels completely normal.”

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: Not sure about that, but I think it’s a bit silly and we see a bit later that Harry’s attempts are not very well-crafted. Because does he really think that Sirius is actually going to believe this? Come on, Harry.

Eric: Right.

Rosie: He’s just waking up. He’s not at full cognitive function yet.

[Hadas and Eric laugh]

Caleb: So don’t send things by owl just after waking up.

[Rosie and Hadas laugh]

Hadas: There should be owl glasses like Google has.

Caleb: Oh, yeah.

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Hadas: I think this is such a good question and it made me think. I reread it and it seems like Harry is very worried about Sirius there, and maybe it’s Jo just setting up Book 5.

Caleb: Mhm.

Hadas: Because at this point Harry only knows Sirius for a few months. He knows him for a year but he only knows that he’s good and his godfather. He only likes him for a few months. And I think it’s because Harry is so dependent on him. He needs that family person and he had Lupin but Lupin was a teacher – he was an authority figure. Sirius is cool, he’s fun, he treats him as an equal, and I think he’s very, very connected to him. He doesn’t want to lose him.

Eric: I agree with that, and just in this chapter you get the fear or the anxiety that Harry has over the fact that Sirius is actually pretty reckless.

Hadas: Mhm.

Eric: He worries that he’s endangered Sirius by getting Sirius to care for him and come closer. But ultimately, a lot of that has to do with his thoughts about Sirius, which echo Molly’s thoughts in Book 5 that Sirius is likely to put himself in danger. Now, I do think that Sirius has a pretty good handle on the situation, which we find out later in the chapter, because he’s made it successfully into the country and Harry’s able to relax a little bit. But ultimately, I think it does mean the same thing. Harry is worried about putting Sirius in danger because Sirius will clearly do what’s right no matter how much danger he’s putting himself in.

Hadas: That’s very Gryffindor of him.

Caleb: Definitely.

Eric: It is, isn’t it?

Rosie: Yes.

Caleb: But we do see the Owlery for the first time as Harry goes to get Hedwig to send the letter, so it’s a good way for Jo to show us the Owlery and it describes it, though, as “The floor was entirely covered in straw, owl droppings, and the regurgitated skeletons of mice and moles.”

[Eric and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Apparently, the Owlery is not getting cleaned up by anyone.

[Hadas laughs]

Caleb: And if that wasn’t enough, then Harry eventually… it says, “He’s sliding a little on the dropping-strewn floor.”

Rosie: Eww!

Eric: Ugh! Darn it, Hermione! Seriously, with your SPEW campaign.

[Hadas laughs]

Eric: Slowly but surely the house-elves are quitting their jobs all over Hogwarts. I don’t quite know why the house-elves don’t clean this particular… there [are] just so many owls.

Caleb: Maybe they only do it a couple of times a year.

Rosie: If you clean it, it will be messy again within an hour.

Caleb: Yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Rosie: If you’ve ever seen a pigeon coop, then yeah, it’s not going to stay clean.

Caleb: Right.

Hadas: So students should take some responsibility and Scurgify every so often.

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: I know they don’t learn that in school but that should be a home spell nation, though.

Caleb: Perfect place to practice.

Rosie: I think it’s details like this that really bring the world to life – from Jo. It proves that Hogwarts isn’t all roaring fires and glittering gold chandeliers and all that stuff. It’s got a real living side to it as well. There are owl droppings everywhere because there are owls everywhere.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: It’s practical.

Caleb: And that’s such an easy detail to have overlooked if you’re just writing it, but that shows how great she is. She does give us that little bit of detail that adds so much.

Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: But Hedwig is still a little upset with Harry from the other night, and he almost – or she, I should say – almost doesn’t take Harry’s letter. But Harry, the sly guy he is…

[Hadas laughs]

Caleb: … suggests that he might need to use Pigwidgeon instead, and of course the prideful Hedwig is not going to have any of that and takes off.

Hadas: Does anyone else love her? She’s so… she’s like the passive-aggressive girlfriend, and she… remember when Hagrid gets her, and he says that the shopkeeper says [that] she’s very smart? This is it. She has all these emotions and these tricks that she does.

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: None of the other owls have this kind of personality.

Caleb: Right.

Eric: No, I don’t love her, to answer your question. I don’t.

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Caleb: I do.

Rosie: Real owls are… if you talk to any of the animal trainers… I had the pleasure of talking to the actual animal trainers from the films…

Hadas: Cool.

Rosie: … about the owl that plays Hedwig, and that is a dumb animal. Owls are really, really stupid. We put the whole fake idea…

[Caleb laughs]

Hadas: I know. My family made fun of me. I was like, “I want to get an owl,” and they’re like, “You’re an idiot. They’re so stupid.”

Eric: Yeah, I also hear – and this broke my heart – that horses are also pretty stupid creatures.

Rosie: Aww.

Eric: You always imagine a horse, or in this case Harry’s owl, being so majestic and having this great personality and all that, but sometimes they’re just animals. But it’s part of the magic. I mean, Harry is basically… it says that Hedwig puts her leg out. It’s like, “I’ve never seen an animal just do that.”

[Caleb and Hadas laugh]

Eric: It’s impossible to coax a dog to high five you, so I would imagine it would be just as awkward to see an owl sticking its leg out, but she knows her purpose, and – oh, heck no – she’s not going to be overshadowed by this pig.

[Caleb, Hadas, and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: Right. Well, shortly after[ward] Harry tells Hermione and Ron that he sent the letter off, and it’s interesting because Hermione gets upset that Harry lies to Sirius, but she quickly shuts up when Ron sharply tells her to drop it, and I don’t think we see many scenes like this, where Ron very intently says, “Cut it out. We’re not going to talk about [it] anymore,” and she falls in line.

Rosie: I think it’s one of the only times that we see Ron having more emotional depth than Hermione.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: He really understands why Harry has lied, and she obviously doesn’t care or doesn’t connect with it in the same way, so it’s the first… this is one of the first clues for me that their relationship would really work. They can rely on each other to [unintelligible] in situations like this.

Eric: Hmm.

Rosie: It’s nice.

Caleb: It is.

Eric: Yes.

Caleb: But we eventually get to the next Defense Against the Dark Arts lesson, and we find out that Moody says [that] he’s going to test the Imperius Curse on each of them and that Dumbledore approved, which made me stop and think for a second because should we be okay with Dumbledore’s willingness for this to happen? I mean, it’s one thing for them to be exposed to the Imperius Curse. It is a whole other thing for the Imperius Curse to be used on them.

Rosie: Do you actually think that Dumbledore did approve?

Caleb: Well, see, that was my next thought, so I was going to see if someone [would bring] that up.

Eric: He had to have approved. If Dumbledore weren’t… now, it may have taken some coaxing, and I think that lends more to Barty Crouch and his ability to act the role and convince Dumbledore because Dumbledore would have found out, and immediately all daggers would have been on Barty a.k.a. Moody if it were not approved. So yeah, I think from the last chapter, from Crucio, basically it’s been approved, okay? Dumbledore is allowing these curses to be taught.

Hadas: I think it’s only because it’s Moody. I don’t know that any other hire would be allowed to do this. I think because he has a long history with him, and he knows he’s a little quirky.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: That’s true.

Eric: Ultimately, what is Crouch getting out of this, though, if we think that he convinced Dumbledore to be able to teach these Unforgivable Curses? Is he getting some kind of sick gratification from being able to cast these curses? If you really must mean them to cast them, then clearly he is an evil character at heart.

Caleb: Well, I think here – at least for me – it’s pretty clear. He’s using it as a way to test Harry.

Eric: Hmm.

Rosie: I think that there must be…

Hadas: But why does he… right. I was wondering when I read this: Why does he… he really seems genuinely excited when Harry is able to throw it off. It doesn’t seem like fear or [that] he’s playing it. He seems excited. Is this because he’s trying to groom Harry to be a worthy opponent so that when Voldemort finally kills him, it’s not like, “Okay, great, Voldemort. You killed a fourteen-year-old.”

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: [laughs] Voldemort is like, “Bro, make me look good. Make me… at the end of this all just… ” Yeah.

[Hadas laughs]

Rosie: I think…

Caleb: Yeah, I think… go ahead, Rosie.

Rosie: There really is kind of a thrill. I think I said this last week, but he really desires power.

Caleb: Yup.

Rosie: And he’s testing him to work out whether he is actually powerful, and this is proof. This is the real first proof that he can throw off these Unforgivable Curses and that it wasn’t just a fluke when he was born, when he was up against Voldemort that first time. No one outside of Hogwarts knows about the adventures of the last three years, so they don’t know that Harry has thrown off all of these things in his history. So this is really proof that he is actually a powerful wizard, whether he knows it or not.

Eric: Well, just because nobody’s expecting a Portkey at the end of the book, too, I can’t help but think that this whole thing is a bit like playing with your food before you eat it.

Rosie: Hmm.

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: On Moody’s part with Harry.

Rosie: That’s true. He doesn’t get to be there, so this is his fun while he’s there. Yeah.

Caleb: Yeah.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: I also think this is a really big missed opportunity by the filmmakers because we get this scene when he’s testing the Imperius Curse on everyone prior to Harry, and it mentions that Dean is hopping around, Lavender is imitating a squirrel, and Neville is doing gymnastics.

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: I just think this would have been hilarious to see on film.

[Hadas laughs]

Eric: Well, Neville does the waltz in Movie 4. There’s…

Caleb: Wow.

Eric: … that’s kind of like gymnastics.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: This whole scene is missing, isn’t it? We don’t actually…

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: … see Moody cast it. So maybe the movie makers decided that they shouldn’t be encouraging breaking the law in their movies.

Caleb: Maybe so.

Eric: Hmm.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: But Harry finally does go and get the Imperius [Curse] put on him, and in this moment we get the description of what it feels like to be put under the Imperius Curse, which I think is really interesting. And at first, Harry… it’s described as “a wonderful feeling,” “floating sensation,” “his thoughts and worries were wiped away,” and he has a “vague, untraceable happiness,” and this is all prior to the command even being given. And then Harry… I think it’s a… I don’t know. I personally thought it was a bit of a stretch that Harry immediately is able to sort of budge against Moody’s command. I mean, the first time he says it, Harry is there questioning it and not immediately leaping. I think maybe a couple of more tries [and] that would have been more believable. I don’t know, I was a little skeptical.

Eric: Must be nice.

Caleb: Right?

Eric: To be so anti-evil that…

[Rosie laughs]

Eric: Could it be his blood, though? He’s got the blood of two Gryffindors, both very, very anti-Dark Arts, successful wizards. I mean, could it really just boil down to something as simple as that?

Rosie: You’re forgetting that this is another example of the so-called “little voice in his head” speaking, which we have associated, in the past, with the Horcrux.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: Maybe the having the dual soul aspect within him creates some kind of barrier. If you’re controlling someone’s soul with the Imperius Curse, and you’ve only cast it on one element of someone if there is two in that person…

Caleb: Hmm.

Rosie: … then you’ve put that friction involved where it’s easier to throw off.

Caleb: That’s a good point.

Eric: That’s a really good point.

Caleb: Now it’s more believable.

Hadas: I like that.

Caleb: Thank you, Rosie, for solving my problem with this selection.

[Eric, Hadas, and Rosie laugh]

Hadas: Sometimes when Harry gets things too easily, I just chalk it up to the fact that he’s the hero.

Rosie: Yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: I have this problem with heroes that they just get everything, and they whine about it, and then they win. [laughs]

Caleb: He certainly does a lot of that.

[Hadas laughs]

Caleb: A lot of the whining.

Eric: But winning? [laughs]

Caleb: Yeah. So he does almost beat it, and it mentions… I also think this would have been really good in the movie because seeing him… I mean, it would have been hard to do, maybe. He kind of jumps but doesn’t really jump, so he just collides with it, so it would have been cool to see visually. But eventually they get to their Divination class, [laughs] and I think it’s really funny because I love this part last week where Harry and Ron’s Divination homework that they totally made up…

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: … was a huge hit with Professor Trelawney, and it says she was commending them for their unflinching acceptance of the horrors in store for them.

[Caleb. Eric, and Rosie laugh]

Eric: Good work, guys.

Hadas: I feel so bad for her.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Caleb: She kind of brings it on herself.

Rosie: I love her. She’s so amazing.

Hadas: Yeah.

[laughs]

Caleb: The next lesson up is Care of Magical Creatures, and I think this is a really good moment for Hagrid because Malfoy tries to object to Hagrid’s assignment, and Hagrid finally fires back at Malfoy. Actually, I have to pull back up what the exact quote is. I can’t remember, but it draws on the fact that obviously last year Malfoy overexaggerated his injury and tried to get Hagrid fired and got Buckbeak in trouble, and Hagrid uses this moment to draw on the Moody threat of turning him into a ferret, but I think this is really a good moment for Hagrid to stand up for himself.

Eric It’s kind of unprofessional. [laughs]

Caleb: Yeah, I mean when is Hagrid… ?

Rosie: When has Hagrid ever been professional?

Caleb: Yeah, exactly.

Eric: That’s why it works. That’s why he can get away with it. But still, it is torturing a student.

[Eric and Rosie laugh]

Eric: It’s like, “Remember that time you were legally turned into another species?”

[Hadas and Rosie laughs]

Eric: “Yeah, that was cool.” But really it just happens to do… look, Malfoy deserves it, right? Especially after last year nearly killing Buckbeak I think Hagrid is still… Hagrid is in a great position where he’s simply not afraid of Malfoy anymore, and that’s a great feeling. So yeah, absolute props to Hagrid.

Caleb: Then we get a notice that Beauxbatons and Durmstrang are coming soon on Friday, October 30 I believe the date is.

Eric: That’s in thirteen days. [laughs]

Caleb: It is. It’s coming up soon. Yeah, we’re kind of on the Goblet timeline now. Or pretty close anyway. But then we get Ernie Macmillan of Hufflepuff mention[ing] Cedric probably, and we get the illusion that he’s probably going to enter the Triwizard Tournament. Ron calls him an idiot. Hermione hears that he’s a really good student, and he’s a prefect.

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Caleb: So clearly Hermione has the hots for him, and we should have guessed at this point that Cedric would have played a pretty big role because we have this – up to this point – relatively obscure character, Ernie Macmillan – only mentioned a couple of times – point out this even more obscure character.

Rosie: Yeah.

[Caleb and Eric laugh]

Rosie: Major fishhook moment.

Caleb: Right, exactly.

Eric: It’s just coming from the depths of Hufflepuff, which has been ignored up until this point. [laughs]

Rosie: Hey, remember those three characters that we actually know are Hufflepuffs? Yeah, we’re just going to mention them all in one chapter.

[Caleb laughs]

Rosie: Why not? [laughs] There are no others.

Caleb: And not see them for a couple more chapters.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: And then at breakfast we hear this continued – Fred and George – talking about Bagman, and of course they don’t explicitly say that, but we know that’s who[m] they’re talking about. Ron tries to pry, but they’re not having it. Sounds like things are getting a little bit more intense, and Bagman is not really willing to cough up the money he owes them. But then we learn that Hermione has not found… actually, this is interesting. I just realized this: Last chapter when I guess it was Harry listening to Fred and George, Hermione interrupted that, talking about SPEW, and the same thing happens here.

Eric: Hmm.

Caleb: But anyway, Hermione has not found incredible success with SPEW. George points out that the house-elves in the kitchens because they have been there [and] of course, are extremely happy with their jobs, and Hermione says [that] they are uneducated and brainwashed. So I thought maybe we should really think about who really does have the right end of the argument here.

Hadas: I have a weird comparison, and [laughs] I should just say that I don’t think it’s parallel, and I hope you don’t think it’s offensive. I actually saw this caricature. It’s a… what do you call it? A political cartoon type thing? And it’s an American woman, and she’s pulling off the head covering of a Muslim woman, and she’s telling her, “I’ll liberate you!” So I just thought, “That’s so funny,” because…

Eric: Oh, wow.

Hadas: … maybe the house-elves are just so… they like what they’re doing. Dobby doesn’t like it because he’s abused, but everyone else seems to enjoy it. And really, please don’t think that I’m saying that anyone’s a slave or anything like that. I just thought it was like maybe we’re not seeing it from their point of view. We’re seeing it from our point of view.

Caleb: Yeah, no, I think that’s a great analogy. I think that Hermione in a lot of ways, I mean, clearly takes it way too far, but you also have to consider… I mean, she brings up a good point here about being “uneducated” and “brainwashed.” Especially [when] we’re talking about these magical creatures that are not humans.

Eric: I really like, though, the delicacy with which George leans forward and says, “Look, have you ever been to the kitchens? They’re actually happy with what they do.” And so that’s a rare moment of what I think is sensitivity for these otherwise pranksters to be like, “Okay, yeah, we join in and help your cause, but look, we actually think you’re wrong. Here’s the situation here: They actually are happy.” It’s just them taking the subject seriously.

Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: That’s a good point.

Hadas: And maybe she’s right that they need some benefits. They can have them. Maybe she’s right about that, actually.

Rosie: But here’s the thing: Doesn’t Dumbledore offer it to them ,and then they turn it down?

Hadas: Right.

Rosie: So it does work to an extent, but she takes it too far.

Eric: Well, hey, in comparison to what other house-elves in the world are doing, you’d have to believe that it is a dream job to work at Hogwarts.

Rosie: Yeah.

Eric: And that may not mean that it’s right, but that’s really just the point is Hermione is in a bad place to be starting this sort of argument because everybody there is pretty much the best treated house-elves ever.

Hadas: And she’s only…

Rosie: Hey, Hermione. Check your privilege.

Caleb: Right.

Hadas: She’s only been exposed to ones that have had trouble.

Rosie: Yeah.

Hadas: She sees Dobby and then Winky, but I don’t know about Winky. I don’t know how I feel about that either, actually. [laughs]

Rosie: I think Winky is not so much abused as a victim of a bad situation.

Hadas: Mhm.

Caleb: Yeah. I mean, the four house-elves we meet are very strong personalities, so we don’t get to look at what we could say [is] the average scope of a house-elf.

Eric: That’s a really good point.

Caleb: You think about Dobby and Winky and Kreacher and even Hokey when we look back at Hepzibah Smith, and…

Hadas: Yeah.

Caleb: They’re very strong personalities.

Rosie: And it’s the whole subservience thing. Subservience is not necessarily something that’s put into place by the master. Some people do like being subs, and in this case, the house-elves really do like being subs, so it’s… yeah, it’s interesting. They have to have their own say as well. You can’t just enforce your own opinion on the house-elves.

Caleb: Yeah. Well, shortly after this, Hedwig comes in with the other owls, and we get a letter from Sirius, and – as we alluded to earlier – Sirius is not buying Harry’s lies in his letter. He says, “Nice try, Harry.”

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: But it’s important to note that we find out that Sirius is back in the country and he’s keeping a closer eye on Harry. He wants Harry to keep him updated with what’s going on, which of course, will come back more into play later, so it’s… yeah, he’s closer to keep a closer eye. But Harry, in a way, he, kind of, tries to justify what he did because he feels better that Sirius is there and that he did it without getting caught. So… but we do get to the point where everyone goes outside, and I think it’s really funny because Harry recalls that quote from – I think – Arthur, that they can’t help showing off in front of one another…

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: … because the Hogwarts kids are all outside waiting to see in what majestic way the two schools will arrive.

Rosie: They even have to wear their hats.

Hasan: Mhm.

Caleb: Yeah, exactly. Beauxbatons comes first and some first year – I didn’t even remember this – but…

[Eric and Hasan laugh]

Caleb: … a first year thinks that it’s a dragon…

Eric: It’s a dragon! Ahh!

Caleb: … which is like, wow, chill out kid. It’ll be all right.

Rosie: The dragon references are kind of like Beetlejuice. I swear this is the third dragon reference we’ve had before the book, and then…

Caleb: Mhm.

Rosie: … suddenly the first task is going to be dragons.

Eric: Dragons.

Rosie: It’s bringing that idea into your head.

Caleb: That’s a very good point.

Eric: Well, I guess it works on multiple levels then.

Hasan: I love that.

Eric: Listening to Jim Dale, though, [laughs] with that first year, just freak out about the dragon. It is hilarious.

Caleb: Yeah. But we do find out that it’s actually a huge carriage pulled by horses, and out comes – rather huge herself – Madame [pronounces as “Max-i-may”] Maxime, and I notice that her… she has “a shoe the size of a child’s sled.” What wonderful imagery Jo gives us.

Hasan: I love that. Every time I read…

Rosie: What did you call her? [pronounces as “Max-i-may”] Maxime?

[Hasan laughs]

Caleb: Oh, yeah. I guess I do. It’s [pronounces as “Max-eem”] Maxime, isn’t it?

Rosie: It’s [pronounces as “Max-eem”] Maxime. Yeah.

Caleb: Yeah, it’s the way I read it the first time I read it and it kind of always stuck, so…

Rosie: Aww. That’s fine.

Eric: But just that comparison – “a shoe the size of a child’s sled” – makes me think that she’s going around stealing sleds from children.

>p>[Eric and Rosie laugh]

Eric: I can’t… she’s a bully. I don’t know, man.

[Hasan laughs]

Caleb: So there [are] a couple of things that I thought about as it mentions the students. It says, “a dozen boys and girls come out after her.” It’s important to point out that, I think, a lot of people – I’ve even done this a couple of times – forget that boys do go to Beauxbatons because there’s kind of this boys go to Durmstrang, girls go to Beauxbatons idea that has happened sometimes.

Eric and Rosie: Yeah.

Eric: I think the movie for sure…

Hasan: The movie. Yeah.

Eric: … is either completely to blame or at least mostly to blame.

Caleb: Yeah. Right. And it’s interesting that they only brought a dozen. I mean, you would think that… I don’t know. It’s just weird because I guess, since it’s at Hogwarts, all the students are already there, obviously, but maybe it’s not necessary that the whole schools from the other two come.

Rosie: Well, no. It would be the top two years, wouldn’t it?

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: And they’ll probably only bring the best of those years.

Caleb: Right. That’s true. It just makes me wonder, because I’ve always wondered how many students are actually at Beauxbatons and Durmstrang, and we never really get an idea.

Rosie: No.

Hadas: Well, it could be small because… I don’t know how to work this out but if Beauxbatons is only French speaking, they might only be French and if Hogwarts is English speaking there’s at least three countries that would go to that school.

Caleb: Yeah.

Hadas: And they have… we always have these problems with how many students are in each grade.

Caleb: [laughs] Yeah.

Hadas: But it’s not a lot, so it could be just seventh year.

Eric: I’d like to keep… what I’ll be doing when I’m reading the rest of this book is… I do want to keep… I want to figure out how they are being educated this year.

Caleb: Hmm.

Eric: Because it seems like the rest of the students – who aren’t the champions – they’re there to support their school, but ultimately they don’t really… do they have their own teachers? Because only the headmasters, I think, came…

Hadas: Ooh.

Caleb: Gap year!

Eric: It is totally a waste of a year for the eleven other candidates…

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: … from each class who cannot be with their friends and cannot be taught in the normal way.

Caleb: Right.

Rosie: Maybe there is some kind of magical distance learning.

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: That would be pretty cool.

Rosie: Some kind of Pensieve into…

Eric: Yeah, yeah, or via Patronus or something.

Rosie: Yeah.

Hadas: Oh, that’s so cool! I love that. [laughs] Floo Powder – they could just stick their heads in the thing.

Caleb: There you go.

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Caleb: Shortly after Durmstrang arrives – I really love their arrival method. I think it’s just such a cool entrance – but more interesting, I think, is that Dumbledore and Karkaroff have… I mean, obviously, it’s for the sake of public face but they do have a pretty cordial greeting.

Eric: Hmm.

Caleb: And you think about… they obviously have quite a bit of history where they’re on opposite ends of the battle.

Hadas: Mhm.

Eric: [laughs] Yeah…

Caleb: And I often forget what Karkaroff actually looks like until I come back to this part because it’s so different in the book compared to what he is in the movie, because in the book it describes him as having white hair that is short and “his goatee, finishing in a small curl, did not entirely hide his rather weak chin.”

Rosie: Really different.

Caleb: Very. I mean, I understand the choice they made in the movie to create that perception of that geographical area but I still think… I don’t know. I really like this description of Karkaroff, so I wish we could have seen it.

Eric: Yeah, I guess it is more…

Rosie: It completely changes your impression of the character.

Caleb: It does.

Rosie: I mean,the whole weak chin thing makes you think that he is more of a weak person rather than a strong…

Hadas: Headmaster.

Rosie: Yeah.

Eric: Well, also the fact that he…

Rosie: I mean, he is still the headmaster here.

Hadas: Right.

Eric: The fact that he was a Death Eater, and I think that’s what the movie was going for to make him look darker and more evil and more questionable because we’re wondering whether or not he is behind Harry’s name in the goblet later.

Hadas: I did like the description of his voice because it used two words that I didn’t know what they meant in terms of voice. It said he had a fruity, unctuous voice. It means deep and pleasant but also flatter and they did that well in the movie because he’s definitely… when he meets Dumbledore it just looks a little fake.

Rosie: Yeah.

Caleb: Yeah. And then at the very end of the chapter as the Durmstrang students are coming in we, of course, find out that none other than Victor Krum is a student at the school and is now at Hogwarts.

Eric: [laughs] I love how it is stated in this chapter that Harry would have recognized his profile even without Ron’s punching him and whispering in his ear.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: [whispers loudly] Harry!

Caleb: You can totally imagine that scene happening. I feel like I’ve reenacted that moment many times in my life.

Eric: I love the way it’s worded because your mind has to work it out… what just happened.

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: But yeah, total surprise.

Rosie: But why did any of the other students from Durmstrang bother going?

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: Oh!

Caleb: I was just thinking about the same thing.

Eric: You’ve got an internationally famous Quidditch star. Come on!

[Rosie laughs]

Hadas: What’s the other kid’s name that wants some wine and he doesn’t get it? I always feel bad for that kid. Do you know what I’m talking about?

Caleb: I can’t remember any of their names right now.

Rosie: It’s in the next chapter, yeah.

[Hadas laughs]

Rosie: Give them some wine. [laughs]

Hadas: Well, at least the cool thing is, is that both Ron and Hermione have crushes on other people in this book.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: That’s true.

Caleb: Yeah.

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: Actually, Ron has a crush on two different champions.

[Rosie laughs]

Caleb: Yup.

Eric: Well, and now, ladies and gents, we have a special feature for this episode. It is our Pottermore In-Depth segment on Portkeys!

[Pottermore In-Depth intro begins]

Michael: Pottermore In-Depth.

[Sound of quill writing]

Rita: Well, Harry, the Daily Prophet readers want to hear the in-depth scoop on you.

Harry: Umm, well, I…

Rita: Absolutely brilliant – ignore the quill – tell me more, Mr. Potter.

[Pottermore In-Depth intro ends]

Eric: Yay!

Caleb: Zoom!

Eric: Everybody likes Portkeys!

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Eric: So this, actually, information comes directly from Pottermore relating to Portkeys and here are some interesting facts about Portkeys. “Wizards who can not Apparate, who wish to travel by daylight, or whose destination has no fireplace will have to resort to the use of a Portkey.” So people who can’t Apparate, also Thestrals, flying cars, dragons, just don’t work by day and if you don’t have a fireplace, you can’t use Floo Powder. “Almost any inanimate object can be turned into a Portkey. Once bewitched, the object will transport anyone who grasps it to a pre-arranged destination. A Portkey may also be enchanted to transport the grasper (or graspers) only at a given time. In this way, the arrivals and departures of great numbers of witches and wizards can be staggered, enabling such events such as the Quidditch World Cup to take place with very few security breaches. When secrecy is paramount, and mass movement is planned, the chosen Portkey will be a nondescript object secreted in an out-of-the-way place, so that it will be taken for a piece of unimportant debris by Muggle passers-by. Accidents have occurred, however; two Muggle dog-walkers found themselves accidentally transported to a Celestina Warbeck concert in 2003…

[Hadas laughs]

Eric: … because their dogs had run off with an old trainer on Clapham Common (leaving an anguished crowd of witches and wizards to look frantically for their Portkey on a stretch of empty grass, hopefully seizing old crisp packets and cigarette ends).” Rosie, can you… what is a trainer? Is it shorts?

Hadas: Sneaker.

Rosie: Oh, sneaker.

Eric: Sneaker, thank you! Thank you so much.

[Caleb and Hadas laugh]

Eric: Ooh, so glad you’re on the show.

[Rosie laughs]

Eric: “One of the Muggle dog-walkers was even invited on stage by Celestina to perform a duet of ‘A Cauldron Full of Hot, Strong Love.'”

[Hadas laughs]

Eric: “While the Memory Charm placed upon him by a harried Ministry official seemed to have taken at the time, he has since written a popular Muggle song that bears an uncanny resemblance to Celestina’s worldwide hit (Ms. Warbeck is not amused).”

[Rosie laughs]

Hadas: I love this.

Eric: I love it, too.

Hadas: When you meet a new Harry Potter fan – and, obviously, you’re all pretty hardcore – do you ever try to test to see what level they’re at? To see how much you can geek out?

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Hadas: I always ask… someone’s like, “I love Harry Potter!” I’m like, “Okay, who is Mark Evans and who is Celestina Warbeck?” I usually do the difference between those two and if they don’t know it, I’m like, “Okay, I have to be a little bit more normal when I talk to them.” [laughs]

Rosie: My first test is normally, “Have you heard of MuggleNet?” and if they say yes, then I can geek out.

[Hadas laughs]

Eric: Ah, there you go, Rosie.

[Rosie laughs]

Eric: Yeah, I like that.

Hadas: All right, that’s a good one.

[Eric and Hadas laugh]

Eric: Some further information – I love how Jo just came up with that story out of nowhere.

Rosie: Yeah. Brilliant.

Eric: But it very closely mirrors the Quidditch World Cup in this book. So the… furthermore, “The sensation of traveling by Portkey is universally agreed to be uncomfortable, if not downright unpleasant, and it can lead to nausea, giddiness and worse. Healers recommend that the elderly, pregnant and infirm avoid using Portkeys. The suggestion of arranging Portkeys for the transportation of annoying relatives has saved many a wizarding family Christmas.”

Hadas: I actually thought about this for when you have to go to your grandmother’s house for dinner and when you were little. Everyone has to get into the car. This is so much easier. You just hold something and you’re there.

Eric: Mhm.

Caleb: No “Are we there yet?”

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: Yeah.

Eric: You’ll know. The room will stop spinning.

Rosie: Yeah. Okay, yeah.

[Hadas and Rosie laugh]

Eric: And finally, here’s a little bit of information at the bottom. “The name ‘Portkey’ comes from the French ‘porter’ – to carry – and the word ‘key’, in the sense of secret or trick. I don’t like to boast,” says J.K. Rowling, “but I own a real Portkey – the key to the US city of LaPorte – which was given to me by Emerson Spartz, the founder of the fansite Mugglenet.com.”

Rosie: Woo!

Caleb: Hey, we know that site!

[Everyone laughs]

Caleb: Thanks, Jo, for the shout-out!

[Hadas laughs]

Rosie: We all completely geeked out that day. We were like, “Oh my God! She just mentioned us!”

[Caleb and Hadas laugh]

Eric: Well, I really just felt good for Emerson. I was thinking, “Wow, man.”

Caleb: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric: “The true brillance of that gift.” I always thought… because I didn’t get that it was a Portkey, but when that happened years, and years, and years ago, I was like, “Oh, what a stately gift.” He gives her a key to his city where he grew up in Indiana and I’m thinking, “Oh, that’s so political and it’s nice and sure.” But it’s a Portkey! It’s a key to LaPorte! I don’t… I didn’t know and it just…

Hadas: That’s so clever.

Eric: There was many a moment of comprehension there. So way to go, Emerson, really, is all I have to say.

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: And clearly, she liked it enough to mention it on Pottermore, which is unsurpassed.

Rosie: And, yet again, we’ve got an example of Pottermore listening to us and answering our questions.

Caleb: Yeah.

Rosie: Because we had just said three weeks before this came out, we were needing more information on Portkeys. So thank you again so much, Jo, for answering our questions! Please continue!

[Caleb and Eric laugh]

Eric: I still will continue to confuse Portkeys and Horcruxes a little bit. Just the items, I think.

Hadas: I think that’s a movie-ism because I feel like that’s how Harry asks the… am I right? Is that what I’m thinking about?

Caleb: I’m not sure.

Hadas: I think at some point, Harry explains that it could be anything…

Rosie: Right, sure.

Hadas: … and he uses the example of what a Portkey would be.

Eric: Yeah. Well, to which Dumbledore replies, “Well, no. This, actually, would be very specific things.” I think a Horcrux can be anything, it’s just that Voldemort…

Hadas: Right. It’d be more important.

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: Voldemort in particular chose to make super important items his Horcrux. Not only just stuff that was important to him, like his diary, but it was like the cup of Hufflepuff. The actual founders of Hogwarts’s relics. So…

Rosie: You really wouldn’t want to leave a piece of your soul in an old trainer on Clapham Common. [laughs]

Eric: Well, I actually would. I’d think it’d be safest, right?

Rosie: Yeah, probably.

Eric: Wouldn’t you just put your Horcrux in a lucky penny and bury it in the dirt?

Rosie: At least it wouldn’t be chewed by a dog.

[Eric laughs]

Hadas: Then how would you find it? [laughs]

Eric: Well, you wouldn’t need to find it. It would just need to ever be unearthed ever and realized for its true potential.

Caleb: Hmm. Risky business.

Rosie: Unless it’s Anglo-Saxon gold and it would be protected in a museum. [laughs]

Caleb: There you go.

Eric: [laughs] Yes! There you are. But yes, thank you, Jo. [laughs]

Rosie: What I want to know is how they still haven’t discovered a method of transport that’s comfortable. Every single magical method of transport is described as uncomfortable and gives you nausea or just downright unpleasant or whatever.

Eric: Well, can you think of a Muggle way of transport that’s comfortable?

Caleb: There’s always something.

Hadas: Well, maybe…

Rosie: That’s true. I guess people find different things like that for…

Hadas: Richard Branson is working on that or the Tesla guy.

[Rosie laughs]

Eric: Oh, with the pneumatic tube?

Hadas: Yeah.

Eric: I heard a funny joke about that, which is that it’s powered by the screams of it’s terrified passengers.

[Hadas laughs]

Caleb: Oh dear.

Eric: As you shuttle on thousands of miles an hour in a tube where you cannot breathe. [laughs]

Rosie: Well, here we just had Pottermore weighing in on one of our Questions of the Week from a few weeks ago, so why not ask a new one today and see if they answer this one?

[Eric laughs]

Rosie: Our Podcast Question of the Week today is, in this chapter, we see Durmstrang and Beauxbatons traveling to Hogwarts in their own magical transportation, but if the tournament was held elsewhere at Durmstrang or Beauxbatons itself, how would Hogwarts travel to the other schools? What would we do to show off and what would represent the school well as an impressive method of transport? Let us know what you guys think. There’ll be a thread on our main site that you can go to, Alohomora.MuggleNet.com, and let us know your comments. And that pretty much wraps up the show. Thank you, Hadas, for being on the show. We really hope that you’ve enjoyed your time.

Hadas: I had so much fun. Thanks for having me.

Rosie: Great.

Caleb: Yeah, you gave some really great insight, so we appreciate all that.

[Hadas laughs]

Eric: Yes, and good luck on your thesis.

Hadas: I’m glad to have an outlet. Thank you.

Caleb: And if you would like to be on the show as well, you can find out just how to do that if you head over to our website, alohomora.mugglenet.com, and find the page that says, “Be on the Show,” appropriately titled. And you will find all the information. Make sure you have appropriate audio equipment for recording. And in the meantime, subscribe to our show on iTunes and leave us a review.

Eric: And there are multiple ways in which you can contact us at Alohomora! We, first of all, are on Twitter. The address is @AlohomoraMN. You can tweet at us or follow us at @AlohomoraMN on Twitter. We are at facebook.com/openthedumbledore, spelled like Albus Dumbledore. And you can call us. Our hotline is 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287. You can submit your voicemail and just give us a call. Let us know your thoughts. Rosie, is Audioboo ready?

Rosie: It is! It’s actually up and working already. So you can either go to our Audioboo site, which is… hang on a second, let me look it up. It’s audioboo.fm/channel/alohomora. Or if you go on our actual main site, you will see two new little boxes in our sidebar on the right. One of them, it says, “Owlery, Leave Us a Hoot,” and it has a little button underneath it, which says, “Start Recording.” And what you can do is you can click that button and a little pop-up will appear and you can actually record a message straight from that screen and send it to us and we will listen. And if it’s a good comment, we will play it on the show. So you can leave us a comment about anything that we’ve discussed in today’s episode or a specific Question of the Week answer and you may actually hear your own voice popping up on the show next week. Underneath that, you will also see a little box that says, “The Noticeboard,” and that is a little playlist file where you will see messages from us to you guys. And at the moment, there’s one that just says, “Hello, introducing Audioboo.” And that’s actually my voice there if you listen to it. So we hope you guys enjoy that new service. And it’s a really cool, interactive way for you guys to get in contact with us. And a really easy way. All you need is a microphone and an internet connection.

Caleb: Also, make sure to check out our store, which has T-shirts – short and long sleeve – tote bags, sweatshirts, flip-flops, water bottles, travel mugs, and a whole lot of other great stuff, 75 products plus to choose from. And we also have some really great ringtones, which, Eric, I think you put together. Is that correct?

Eric: Kat definitely helped point me in the right direction there.

Caleb: Okay. Well, we do have, regardless, ringtones for you guys to check out if you look on the main page under the podcast tab, it says, “Alohomora! Ringtones.” So you can check those out.

Rosie: And all of those ringtones are free as well. So you just have to download them and use them wherever you like. But we also have our app which is available most places, hopefully worldwide. If you are using an iPhone or an iPad or any other Apple product, make sure you are looking for Podcast Box rather than an Alohomora! app that’s self-titled and hopefully you’ll be able to find it. The prices vary depending on your country, but in there you’ll find transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much, much more, so do check it out – it’s really great.

[Show music begins]

Eric: Wrapping up the show, I’m Eric Scull.

Caleb: I’m Caleb Graves.

Rosie: I’m Rosie Morris. Thank you for listening to Episode 53 of Alohomora!

Caleb: Open the Dumbledore!

[Show music continues]

Rosie: Was someone else talking then? Sorry.

[Prolonged silence]

Rosie: Hello?

Caleb: Wait, what’s going on?

Rosie: I thought someone else was going to talk for a second.

Caleb: Oh, okay.

Eric: I’ve got nothing!

Caleb: Yeah.

[Rosie laughs]

[Train noise in the background]

Eric: Except a train. Do you want a train?

[Everyone laughs]