Transcript – Episode 174
[Show music begins]
Eric Scull: This is Episode 174 of Alohomora! for January 23, 2016.
[Show music continues]
Michael Harle: Welcome, listeners, to our live episode of Alohomora! for the viewing of Deathly Hallows – Part 1, which we just watched and now we’re going to discuss today. I’m Michael Harle.
Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.
Eric: I’m Eric Scull.
Caleb Graves: I’m Caleb Graves.
Alison Siggard: I’m Alison Siggard.
Kristen Keys: I’m Kristen Keys.
Rosie Morris: And I’m Rosie Morris, and oh my God, we’re all here!
Kat: I know, that was the longest intro ever. [laughs]
Rosie: Woo!
Michael: This won’t be chaotic at all.
[Alison and Kat laugh]
Rosie: Complete craziness. We’re really sorry, guys. Also, really sorry for crashing the beginning and all of you hearing that I’ve not got my normal mic today. Never mind.
Michael: Live show!
[Kat and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Our fan guest today is all of you guys, and we’re so glad that you’re here. There are two ways that you can get a hold of us. First by phone; you can give us a call on 1-206-GO-ALBUS. That’s 206-462-5287. The second way you can contact us – and this works best for you international listeners – is on Skype. It’s free. If you’ve got Skype, you can just ring us at AlohomoraMN. If you don’t get through the first time, keep trying. There’s lots of people trying to reach us, so please do keep trying. And of course, if you’re in the chat from the movie watch earlier, I’m watching you.
Kat: [laughs] That’s not creepy at all, Rosie.
[Everyone laughs]
Alison: A little creepy. And just before we start our live podcast, we just want to give a shout-out to our Patreon. We are on Patreon. Thank you to all those who have already become sponsors. If you haven’t yet, make sure you get on there. For as little as $1 you can keep us talking for all these things, so maybe all of us can be together once again on another show. So the URL is going to be on our website on alohomora.mugglenet.com just right there on the top; just click on our Patreon button.
Eric: Woo! Click on the button. Well, as already said – and it could do with repeating – today we’re talking about the movie that hopefully all of you have just seen with us and are sticking around on Ustream to chat. It was a great experience chatting with you all during the film, and it had been a little while since I’d seen this movie, so it was great.
Kat: Oh, it’s so good. It’s so good. It’s my favorite, I’ve always said that, and I just love it so much. It’s so good.
Alison: Yeah, I count Part 1 and Part 2 just as one movie, and collectively I think they’re probably my favorite movie.
Kat: Oh, but Part 2 is not very good.
Kristen: Yeah, I agree with Kat.
[Everyone laughs]
Alison: What?
Kristen: Part 1 is my favorite.
Eric: Save that discussion until later.
Alison: What?
[Alison and Kristen laugh]
Eric: Actually, so this is unprecedented for us because we’re doing a movie discussion while we still have some book left. That was a big…
Caleb: Yeah, when we were getting ready for this I was like, “Wait a second. How do we do this episode?”
[Alison laughs]
Kat: Yeah.
Caleb: Because every time we’ve done a movie watch, there’s been past things to also discuss. So this is pretty new territory.
Kat: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I was like, “But wait, we’re not done yet.” This is going to be an interesting show. But good, I think.
Eric: This is great because all of the scenes in this entire movie were the ones we had just read, just like normal. So it still felt the same even though now we have the added bonus of still half a book left.
Kat: Well, it’s a third of the book. But yeah.
Eric: Yeah, third of a book. The most action-packed third. But anyway, so we got some general thoughts that we laid down for the movies. Did you guys notice anything different this time around?
Kat: Hmm. Still for…
Rosie: How dark it was?
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: It is a really dark movie. Although I tend to watch movies in the complete darkness anyway, so it’s never really bothered me. It struck to me, again, that once again, all the quiet moments of this movie are really my favorite movies.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: Like the hug between the trio at the beginning and things like that. Just those little quiet moments are really what strike me the most about this film.
Eric: Sure. Besides the darkness, which I know we were talking about a lot in the chat… which it’s true. I mean, I had to change my brightness settings on my TV, and taking screen captures for the caption contest is just a nightmare because you have to edit them all the time, make them lighter, make them more colorful… but besides that, honestly, this movie has some of my favorite adapted scenes.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: They’re just so true, or even improvements upon the book, and the book is great in these scenes that I’m talking about. But seeing them on film and having… I know we’ll get into this a little bit more later, but having a movie just devoted to the smaller parts. It doesn’t end with a battle sequence, all this stuff. It’s a different movie, but I like it almost the most for that.
Rosie: There’s also all those details like the potpourri you noticed, Eric.
Eric: I noticed the potpourri for the first time! Yeah, yeah, exactly. And the cards. Somebody in the chat pointed out the cards as well. The wedding cards that are behind them…
Kat: Yeah.
Eric: … when Dumbledore’s will is being read. There’s a lot that went into this film even though it feels so different and is so different from every other Harry Potter film.
Alison: Well, even things that didn’t show up on screen; like Dumbledore’s will is all written out, Lily’s letter we were talking about in the chat at one point was made, and they’re all pretty much completely taken from the book and it’s… there’s so much detail.
Rosie: Yeah, and you can go and see that detail as well at the Studio Tour, the letter and the will. They’re actually on display and you can stand there and read them and see exactly what they do say. And they do match up pretty closely to what’s in the book. MinaLima did such a great job at creating them.
Kristen: Mhm.
Kat: They did. It’s very cool. That will… and I didn’t get this through in the chat because that was when my computer crashed, but the will, when you go see it, is basically written on see-through… it looks like tracing paper to me…
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: … and it’s very, very delicate and very light. So it’s definitely worth seeing if you go to the Studio Tour.
Eric: If you’ve attended one of our movie episodes before, you know that we go into a little bit of history, a little bit of detail behind the film, which we’re going to get onto now. Of course, Deathly Hallows – Part 1 was released worldwide on November 19, 2010. So I don’t know how I feel about that. This movie is over five years old.
Alison: Ooh.
Kat: Time flies, man.
Kristen: Crazy. Oh my gosh.
Alison: Yeah. Wait, is November 19 when Fantastic Beasts is supposed to come out? Is it going to come out exactly six years after?
Eric: Maybe. Maybe.
Alison: Maybe I have the date wrong.
Kat: Isn’t it the 20th?
Eric: It’s actually… if you look at what weekend it is, it is the same weekend that half the Harry Potter films came out. It’s the same weekend of the year, except due to Friday being a different date every year, it ranges between the 15th and the 21st or whatever. But that weekend is the weekend that Harry Potter has traditionally chosen for its movies. But anyway, the worldwide premiere was a week earlier, 11 November, 2010, and the film… so this movie – I often forget this – but it was in fact filmed back-to-back with Deathly Hallows – Part 2 simultaneously.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: It was over a year of filming, from February 19, 2009 to June 12, 2010. So that’s a long time. They filmed both movies at once. And toward what we were saying earlier, it kind of makes it feel like it’s one film. The actors are the same age; they’re not a year older, so that lends itself to feeling like Part 1 and Part 2 are together.
Kat: Which is unfortunately I think the reason why Dan didn’t have long hair like Harry does in the book. Because they did it Lord of the Rings style. No film shoots chronologically, so they would shoot scenes for Part 2 and then Part 1 and then Part 2 and Part 1, so… poor Dan and his hair.
[Kristen laughs]
Eric: Is Harry’s long hair a big plot point in Book 7?
Kat: No, I just wanted to see it.
Eric: I feel like that was a criticism and I’m like, “What?”
Kat: No, I just wanted to see long hair. That’s all.
Eric: Oh, yeah. Well, go to Goblet of Fire if you want to see…
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: No, that was bad hair. That was just bad.
Eric: And so a lot went into this film. We all remember… actually, it was brought up in the chat – which I was very impressed – the first promo image that came from this film was of the trio in London out near Piccadilly Circus area, and I just remember getting that first photo and being like, “This is the end.” Of course, at least one or two movie tag lines said, “This is the end.”
Kat: [laughs] Right.
Eric: Everything. And I still to this day have a poster of obviously Hogwarts burning, which is Part 2. It’s like the big one. But the Part 1 poster of them running in the woods is just so… to me, that moves me a lot. It’s really iconic. I just enjoy seeing them run for their lives.
[Kat laughs]
Eric: It’s just not a traditional movie poster.
Kat: That’s true.
Kristen: Mhm.
Eric: So that’s why I like it. But we talk about how great this movie is; I know we all like it. Is this anybody’s least favorite movie?
[Prolonged silence]
Eric: Okay.
Kat: Crickets.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: I didn’t want to get into, “We all love it!” I didn’t want to speak for you all since you all are here. But actually, as far as awards go, it was actually nominated for two Academy Awards at the 83rd Academy Awards. Of course, we know Harry Potter did not ever win an Academy Award, but Best Art Direction and Best Visual Effects did get a nomination. The list of awards that this film has won is much easier to go through than the list of awards that it was nominated for, so I’m going to tell you what it won. We got a BAFTA award: BAFTA Britannia for Artistic Excellence in Directing went to David Yates who, by the way, returned for this two-part finale, which I thought was a strong choice. I really like that David Yates basically ended up directing the back half of the series. Also, the MTV Movie Awards… we’ve already descended…
Caleb: Major feat. Major to feat to win that one.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Tom Felton won Best Villain.
Alison: Which, he isn’t in…
Eric: If he had a speaking line, I missed it.
[Alison laughs]
Rosie: It was for expression acting.
Eric: But hey… it was very expression-like.
Alison: For about five minutes. [laughs]
Eric: I was very moved at the end when they were looking at each other.
Kat: He was the Percy of this film. He popped up, did some facial acting, and then left. That’s it, pretty much.
Alison and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: Well, now he has an MTV Movie Award.
Kat: I’m sure he’s very proud of that.
[Alison and Eric laugh]
Eric: Yeah. “My best work.” So moving on to just a couple more awards: Visual Effect Society Awards, the film won Outstanding Animated Character in a Live-Action Feature Motion Picture for Dobby.
Kat: Yay!
Eric: Which we were talking about, how Dobby was really cleaner [and] younger-looking in a way. I love the way he looks in this film, and I love [that] Dobby for the first time is actually tolerable in a Harry Potter movie, I thought. Although, it’s only his second one. But I really liked it, so props to that team. I won’t say their names because I can’t. Maurine, Lori, Ben, and Matthew. Also, the Empire Awards; it won Best Sci-Fi/Fantasy. At the 2011 National Movie Awards, Best Fantasy Film. And finally, at the 2011 Teen Choice Awards, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 1 dominated. We got Choice Movie, Sci-Fi/Fantasy; Choice Movie Actress for Emma Watson; Choice Movie Villain for Tom Felton; and Choice Movie Lip Lock won for Dan Radcliffe and Emma Watson.
[Kristen laughs]
Caleb: Yes, yes. As it should.
Kat: Yup.
Eric: The Horcrux scene.
[Alison and Kristen laugh]
Eric: It was very dark. But their skin was shiny. Their lips were luminous.
Caleb: I like that you prefaced all those, Eric, with, “We got,” like we were all very involved in the process.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: We were so involved, guys. We were there. This happened while we were all there.
Kat: Well, at least those awards – the Teen Choice ones or whatever – were voted on by fans, right? Technically? People’s choice, whatever they were.
Kristen and Eric: Yeah.
Eric: At some point they… and that was the ones that we won the most of.
Kat: Which makes sense. I think that I remember that year being the year that Twilight was nominated a lot, and the Internet was just like, “We can’t lose to Twilight.”
Eric: Yeah.
[Alison laughs]
Rosie: I remember watching the Teen Choice Awards that year and watching Tom getting his award, and he was really shocked, I think, that he got it because he was expecting Twilight to win and he didn’t do anything in that film.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Of course, it’s an honor in some circles to even be nominated. The film was nominated for Academy Awards, BAFTA Awards, Saturn Awards, Hugo Awards – David Yates and Steve Kloves scooped up a nomination for that – and a number of other awards. But it’s nice to see still that in addition to how much we all like the film, it did get some acclaim and critical attention at the time it came out, which is good because it’s nice that not everybody just sees the two-part split as a money grab. I think it actually helped the quality of this film.
Kat: Although, it definitely started a really nasty trend, didn’t it?
Alison, Eric, and Kristen: Yeah.
Alison: We can get there.
[Eric, Kat, and Kristen laugh]
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: Wasn’t there a big thing about 3D at this moment as well?
Alison: Oh, yeah!
Rosie: When the films came out, it was the major launch of 3D, and they were like, “Were they going to do it in 3D? Were they not?” And they were going to and then, I think two weeks before or something, they decided they were just not going to do Part 1 in 3D.
Kat: They scrapped it.
Kristen: Yeah.
Eric: Was it that it couldn’t be ready? It couldn’t possibly be ready on time, or something like that?
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: Well, it could have been ready, but it would have been really bad.
Alison: Yeah. [laughs]
Michael: And I was actually shocked because Warner Bros. admitted that, and that’s not something that movie studios are very happy to say. Because of course, really the point of putting out a 3D movie is because the ticket sales are inflated for it. You’re going to get twice the profits you would get off of a 3D ticket. So that’s usually the reason movie studios would do it. And it was very classy of Warner Bros. You will not see many studios do this. Very classy of Warner Bros. to admit, “Wow, we tried this in 3D, it looks awful, we’re not going to do it because we want to give you a good movie.” Because what’s nice to me about Hallows – Part 1 is it does not have those dinky, corny 3D moments, like, “Look at the thing in your face!”
[Alison and Kat laugh]
Michael: And Part 2 has so many of those. It suffers, I think, a lot with the 3D moments that Part 1 does not.
Kat: But thankfully, they did release it in 3D for the DVD.
Michael: For home video release, yeah.
Kat: So anyone who wanted to watch it, they could.
Eric: Is all of it in 3D?
Kat: As far as I know, yeah.
Eric: Okay, because I think they were experimenting with 3D in the Potter films as far back as Movie 5, weren’t they?
Kat: They were.
Michael: Yeah, Order was only 3D for a few minutes at the end.
Eric: Yeah.
Kristen: In Movie 6, the first fifteen minutes was 3D.
[Michael laughs]
Eric: Right. They were really just toying with it.
Kristen: It was so weird. But yeah, I spent the money and went and did it. [laughs]
Eric: Yeah. I don’t know. But a little bit more history, right here, because I did not know this before until I started researching for this episode. But initially, director David Yates – or actually, I’ll restate that – producer David Heyman initially responded negatively to the idea of a split. He didn’t really want to do it. But one of the producers, Lionel Wigram, asked him, “But how, actually, are we going to do this?” And Heyman took a little bit of a closer look at it, and I guess he agreed to the split. But knowing that the production team… again, this was more of a creative choice, to do the split. And I think it really paid off. I really strongly do. The moments where this film works best – the silent moments, the character moments – could not have existed in a movie that was hurtling toward the end that the series has.
Kat: Mhm.
Alison: I agree with that, yeah.
Eric: So it’s shocking to think what would have been cut; the casualties of not doing a double picture.
Kat: Yeah, because there are already spots that are running, that are rushing. We get to the Ministry and we’re gone. And yeah, if this were one movie? Wow.
Eric: Yeah, with also Gringotts, also Hogwarts, also Dumbledore.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: Also the death thing.
Kat: It would have been four hours long. [laughs]
Eric: Well, yeah! So they did that anyway. But they were able to buy themselves some time on the postproduction end.
Alison: They’re such different tones, too. Even in the book, you realize this is the point where things shift a little bit. Harry’s perspectives start shifting, and so the tone of the book starts shifting a little bit. So I think it was a good idea to split, to separate those ideas and give them their due.
Kat: All right, guys. Well, if you guys have any thoughts on the film, or any questions, or anything you want to bring up, definitely give us a call. You can Skype us at AlohomoraMN or you can call us at 206-462-5287 anytime you want now, as Rosie mentioned. If you don’t get through the first time, keep trying because there are a lot of people trying to get through at the moment.
Michael: So with that, I guess we’ll go into the main movie discussion, huh?
Kat: Yeah, it’s time.
Michael: Okay? Okay, let’s do it. All right, so really, I mean, there was a lot of stuff that was discussed in the chat. And listeners, I apologize in advance, I’ll be up front. Yesterday was my last day of work, and then I was put on movie discussion. I was like, “Whee, I don’t care.”
[Alison and Kat laugh]
Michael: So this is just all my thoughts just as I was watching you guys talk, as well as a few things that I already knew about the film. [laughs] So I’m just in free-fall mode right now. But before we even get into the main discussion, one of the things that was on my mind – because we even talked about it a little bit in the discussion – were actually how the movie was promoted, and the trailers because there was a lot of pre-release hype for Deathly Hallows – Part 1. And it was very interesting, too, because there was initially a promotion of Part 1 and 2 altogether, and then they started splitting them. And one of the things that a lot of people said was funny in the trailers that was often noticed was Hermione’s blood was Photoshopped out, off her hands. That was a big talking point; everybody was wondering why that happened in the initial trailers. I guess they were trying to… they were a little unsure of how to market it. Now, I can’t remember; this one is rated PG-13, right?
Kat: I believe so.
Alison: Yes.
Eric: Ooh, I’m going to double-check that.
Michael: And this is the first one that’s rated PG-13 in the series? Right?
Kristen: No.
Eric: I thought Goblet was.
Kristen: Yeah, I thought Goblet of Fire was.
Kat: I think Goblet, yeah.
Michael: Did Goblet make PG-13, too? Okay, so there’s obviously a bit of marketing confusion because at this point they’re still trying to market it to the kids. So no blood, but there is blood. So cutting their audience down, but they knew people would still go see it.
Kat: While Eric is looking that up… sorry to interrupt you, Michael.
Michael: Oh, yeah, that’s fine.
Kat: We do have a caller.
Michael: Oh, great!
Kat: Megan, I believe? Yes?
Caller: Yeah, hi!
Kat: Hello! Thanks for calling.
Caller: Hi, thanks! I’m CrimsonPhoenix1 on the chat and I love y’all’s show. I just found it two weeks ago, honestly, and I’ve been trying to catch up ever since.
Michael: Oh!
Caller: I’m on Half-Blood Prince right now.
Kat and Michael: Wow.
Kat: You’re doing good!
[Alison laughs]
Eric: You’re doing just fine.
Alison: Yeah.
Caller: Awesome. Well, I had a question I asked a little bit earlier about how Dobby won the award for best animated thing in the movie, or whatever. I was just wondering what y’all think Dobby’s acceptance speech would be for that award.
Kat: Oh!
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Rosie: “Master has given Dobby an award!”
[Everyone laughs]
Kristen: I was going to say, he would thank Harry Potter.
Eric: “Dobby is free!”
Kat: Yeah, he would definitely thank Harry Potter. You’re right on that one.
Alison: Probably give him a new sweater.
Caller: Yeah. Oh, hi everybody. I’m seeing everybody in the chat right now.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: We have such nice listeners.
Eric: I will say Kreacher was also nominated, so I don’t know if there was any tension…
[Kristen laughs]
Eric: … between those two fictional characters after Dobby won.
Michael: So as Dobby is giving his speech, Kreacher runs up with his frying pan and starts…
[Alison and Kristen laugh]
Kat: “I’ma let you finish, but…
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: [as Kreacher] “Kreacher deserved this award.”
[Alison, Kat, and Kristen laugh]
Rosie: Okay, thisstatslover661 has just said, “He wouldn’t, he is dead!”
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Oh, come on!
Kat: That’s insane.
Eric: Who brings a knife to a movie viewing party?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Seriously, come on!
Michael: Before we get to that – because that’s more at the tail end of the movie – one of the things that is frequently talked about and was said a lot in the chat today is that Deathly Hallows: Part 1 – many say more than any of the films in the series – is the best adapted of the series. Do you guys agree, and why do you think that is?
Kat: Four thousand percent yes, I totally agree.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: And it’s because they had time…
Eric: It is the first movie with real breathing room…
Kat: Yeah.
Eric: … and you feel that. It still manages not to be boring or slow somehow. I think it’s the right balance of music and things going on. Every time it’s about to get slow, you get another vision of what Voldemort is doing, or another vision of what’s happening elsewhere. So they really balanced that very well. But yeah, looking at the scenes, like if you just count the different scenes – the Seven Potters, the Ministry, all of it – you can just look at it and be like, “That is so well done. That is so well adapted. It feels or looks or happens just the way I imagined it.” And that, I’d say per capita for each one, if you were to just add them all up, you get the most scenes where you can say that about a Harry Potter adaptation.
Kat: I agree, it’s a perfect mix. It’s a perfect mix of those quiet moments and the action.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: There’s not a whole lot of camping, which we determined there wasn’t a whole lot in the books really anyway.
[Alison laughs]
Kat: But…
Alison: But even the camping is not boring. I mean, it’s not boring camping. Things are happening, they have discussions and conversations about what they’re doing and what they’re going to do, and so it moves itself along, I feel like.
Kat: Exactly.
Rosie: Iseethestrals says that it’s lacking some of the Dumbledore story, which I think is very true.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: We get so much detail about Dumbledore and all of his backstory and family, which I love. Ariana is one of my favorite subplot lines within the novels as a whole, and to be completely lacking that is really something that I miss from the films. But obviously it’s not part of Harry’s main storyline, so I can see why they would cut it, and it does make sense making an action film and that kind of thing.
Kat: Right.
Rosie: But I miss them.
Kat: We should ask our caller, Hannah, what do you think of the adaptation?
Caller: Hello.
Kat: Hello.
Caller: Well, I personally didn’t like it as much because I feel like you couldn’t really understand the movie without reading the books.
Michael: Mhm.
Eric: Yeah.
Caller: Because with the whole mirror shard, that doesn’t appear anywhere.
[Kat, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Caller: Oh, we suddenly have that? What?
Kat: Yeah, it’s definitely hard for us as book readers to separate seeing the movie without reading the book.
Eric: And that mirror shard thing, it’s like… ugh!
Kat: Yeah.
Caller: And then with the doe, like how did Snape find them?
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: And the lack of [Phineas’s] portrait is an issue.
Caleb: I think that’s definitely true, but I think that’s a sign that the producers were really intent on giving book readers the movie we wanted as much as they could. Because when other book-to-film adaptations are starting out, they try to do both. They’re trying really hard to appeal to readers and new viewers, or else the movie just won’t do well. And so, for doing it this way, to really focus on the readers as much as possible, I think they faced that tradeoff a little bit. So we appreciate it a lot more.
Eric: So they broke their own continuity almost too, because David Yates was probably the one who made the decision … because he directed the fifth film where the mirror shard for instance could have been explained and wasn’t.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: [He] kind of went back on that and had it appear in this, the seventh movie, even though it had been ignored in previous iterations.
Michael: Oh! We’ve got another caller.
Kat: We do, hello…
Caller: Hi. This is Fwoopertunes on the chat…
Michael: Oh, hi, Fwoopertunes!
Kat: Hello, Fwoopertunes.
[Caller laughs]
Caller: I wanted to talk about Bill just showing up in this last film out of nowhere.
[Kat laughs]
Caller: I mean, I’m glad to have him there. I don’t know, I really wanted that ponytail with the fang earring and looking as badass as Scabior gets to look.
[Kristen and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: Yeah.
Caller: I guess everybody has this huge crush on Scabior, and that’s how I wanted Bill to be but, you know, ginger.
[Kristen and Rosie laugh]
Eric: Bill is taken.
[Alison, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Caller: Well, that’s true.
Michael: Bill’s a good thing to bring up because let’s talk about some of the new cast that got brought in. Bill – what was interesting about him, of course – is Domhnall Gleeson, son of Brendan Gleeson who is Mad-Eye Moody, so they got to work together – they actually got to be in the same scenes together. That doesn’t often happen for Potter actors who are siblings in real life … or related in real life. What did you guys think of Bill? Because I’ve always thought… Fwooper[tunes] said that Bill gets the short end of the stick in his introduction.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: I mean, he does. It’s too bad that he’s not in more of the other movies, but I’ve always really liked Domhnall, so I’m okay with it in the end.
Rosie: The chatters are all screaming about the fact that there’s no Charlie either. I would have loved to see Charlie.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: Charlie just gets completely wiped from the films pretty much. The only reason why Bill is there is because they had to have the wedding scene at the beginning.
Kat: Right.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: And the refuge at Shell Cottage.
Kat: In the next one, yeah – Part 2.
Eric: No, I really like him. I’m so glad the actor has done so much more since that’s been in the public eye. About Time is an amazing movie.
Michael: I love About Time; that’s a great movie.
Eric: Star Wars: Episode VII, Ex Machina… I mean, I love seeing that this isn’t that guy’s only work. He shows up and does a very adequate job with what they give him; I think he makes the material better. But it’s a little jarring, I’m sure, watching the movies just going, “Wait, who’s this?” Because there wasn’t that time spent on the intro, like we’ve already talked about with… in the books you know who that is, and in the movie it’s just, “Ah, brother Bill.”
Kat: Yeah, it’s a little sad that the ride at Diagon Alley at the Wizarding World of Harry Potter actually gives him more lines and more to do.
[Alison, Eric, and Kristen laugh]
Kristen: That’s what I was about to say.
Michael: Bill is very substantial in that.
Eric: The ride gives you more to do than this movie.
Kristen: Yeah, you see him more on the ride. [laughs]
Kat: You do.
Michael: He’s full of personality, too.
Caleb: It’s a really great scene on the ride, though.
Kristen: It is; it’s a great scene on the ride. I love seeing him there.
Kat: Yeah, me too.
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Eric: “You must…”
Michael: And Domhnall Gleeson wasn’t the only one added to the cast. So Rhys Ifans – I did look it up; that is how you pronounce it. [laughs]
Kat: Mhm.
Eric: Xeno!
Kat: He’s my favorite in the books.
Alison: He’s so good!
Michael: Bizarrely unpronounceable name joining as an also bizarrely unpronounceable character: Xenophilius Lovegood.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: What did we think of him?
Kat: Amazing.
Alison: He’s amazing.
Kristen: Great. Perfect.
Alison: He has the perfect voice.
Kat: He really does. Mhm. For people who don’t know, if you’ve seen Notting Hill, he is Spike in Notting Hill. So basically a young Xenophilius, really.
[Alison laughs]
Rosie: I’ve only ever seen him acting crazy in films. The other film that I’ve seen him in is Enduring Love, which is a really creepy film about stalkers and stuff.
Kat: Oh, boy.
Rosie: He’s completely crazy in that as well. Very different crazy…
Eric: Huh.
[Kristen laughs]
Rosie: … but never seems to play the same characters. [laughs]
Eric: [laughs] I have to say, any actor who… I just remember reading in interviews that he was really excited to be a part of it. He was excited to get the call. He may have been the one who was like, “I’m an Irish actor; I’m the only Irish actor who isn’t already in these films.” That might have been him.
[Kristen laughs]
Kat: Yeah, him and Martin Freeman, right?
Alison: Yeah, him and Martin Freeman.
[Kat and Kristen laugh]
Eric: Oh, yeah. [laughs] Wait. But showing up and being like, “Okay, you’re playing a nutjob.”
[Michael laughs]
Eric: But he did it so well. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, he did. He was a good counterpart for Evanna/Luna.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: Oh, yeah. And you totally believe that relationship between them…
Alison: Oh, yeah.Eric: … in the thirty seconds that that exists as a thing in the movie.
Alison: The dancing is just… [laughs]
Kat: Yeah. It’s brilliant.
Michael: Do we have another caller on the line?
Eric: Ooh.
Kat: We do, actually. Yes. Hello, caller.
Caller: Hi.
Kat: Hi.
Caller: Hi, this is SocksAreImportant from the chat and from the forum.
Eric: Socks are important!
Kat: They are.
Caller: Yes, they very are.
[Rosie laughs]
Kat: You have a question for us? Comment?
Caller: Yes, I do. When you guys first saw the film, do you remember noticing the very dramatic hair that falls on Hermione in the torture scene?
[Rosie laughs]
Micheal: Oh, yeah, because you couldn’t not, because it lasts for like an hour.
Kristen: Yeah.
[Alison laughs]
Kat: You know what? The very, very, very, very first time I saw it – I saw it at obviously midnight or whatever – and I don’t remember that scene at all.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Kat: And I don’t know if it’s because I was so hyped up, if I was talking to my friend next to me or something, but then I saw it the next time and I was like, “How did I miss that?”
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Kat: I have no idea how I missed it the first time, but…
Eric: Magic!
[Alison laughs]
Rosie: I do get the point of the very dramatic hair, though. Right? We all know why it’s there.
Alison and Michael: Yeah.
Eric: Yes.
Rosie: Because it’s “you must notice this detail because it will be important later!”
Alison: [laughs] Yeah.
Eric: It’s there because Millicent Bulstrode “m-m-must have a cat,” right?
[Kat, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Kat: Right.
Eric: M-m-must have a cat.
[Michael laughs]
Alison: For some reason, I remember watching it in the theaters and really noticing it, but for some reason when I watch it at home on the DVD, I don’t see it as clearly as I did in theaters. Maybe it’s just the size of the screen, but for some reason it’s just glowing at you, it felt like, at the theater. But on my laptop or on a TV, it’s just like, “Oh, there’s something on Hermione.” [laughs]
Kat: Yeah, probably just because it’s not a twenty-foot hair.
Alison: Yeah, yeah.
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Kat: That’s probably why.
Eric: You know what, we were talking about that during the chat, but that scene, they filmed so much more.
Kat: Mhm.
Eric: What we’re getting is the dulled-down version, the PG-13, and not any worse version of that sequence. And I think I remember David Yates or somebody saying that basically the whole crew on set was unnerved…
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: … that Helena Bonham Carter and Emma Watson just went all-in, both feet for that and came up with… it wasn’t scripted.
Kat: Right.
Eric: Apparently, carving “Mudblood” was maybe not scripted – that was something that they worked out; they made it work – but I just… that’s one of the big mysteries, I think – besides outtakes, which I’d love to see on a DVD or Blu-Ray extra…
Kat: [sighs] Wouldn’t we all?
Eric: … for the whole series. Come on, just release them! But yeah, the “Mudblood” [thing]…
Michael: [laughs] Lumoshadow in the chat said, “Hermione cries only single manly tears.”
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: That’s right, she’s awesome. [laughs]
Kat: While we sit around and wait for those outtakes, we have another caller. Stephanie? Hello…
Alison: Hi.
Caleb: Hello.
Caller: Hey. This is Stephanie, YoRufusOnFire.
Michael: YoRufusOnFire!
Kat: I hope everybody participated in her drinking game with tea or Butterbeer, whatever you had.
[Kristen and Rosie laugh]
Eric: I think we added rules to it. I spent most of the watch adding more.
[Kat, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Caller: We totally added rules. I’m going to make sure to add those in for next time, too.
Eric: Okay.
Kat: Perfect.
Eric: Every time Scabior turns you on unexpectedly, that’s the new one.
Kat: [laughs]
Oh my God.
Alison: Oh my gosh.
Michael: My goodness. [laughs]
Caller: So my question is, one of my favorite scenes that they missed in this movie was the bribe scene, and I was wondering if they added the bribe in, the one where Lupin comes in and talks to them. Do you think that it would have added anything else to the movie and continually helped it into the second movie?
Alison: Well, it would give us more feelings when Lupin dies in the movie. [laughs]
Michael: Yeah. I think… yeah.
Alison: And Teddy.
Michael: The bribe scene, I think… I’m sure the listeners noticed this during the chat. Talking about characters who get the really short shaft, boy, Lupin and Tonks really get it in this movie. [laughs] They are kind of just… they are very much relegated to the sidelines – they show up, they do their thing, and they leave – and that’s pretty much like having them there is supposed to be enough for when they die that you’re like, “Aww, bummer.” But I think it would have been nice to have “The Bribe” as far as… because “The Bribe” is almost like all the… part of the reason Part 1 exists. It’s more of that kind of character building. I can see why it was cut, unfortunately, but it would have been nice to have, I think.
Rosie: But if they’re going to cut that bit, then they need to cut the whole bit, like the very awkward Tonks line in “The Seven Potters” [scene].
Michael: Yeah, that was awful. [laughs]
Kristen: Yeah.
Alison: Yeah. [laughs]
Michael: Yeah.
Rosie: It’s horrible.
Caleb: That scene is just like… we know that book readers are thinking about this: this is the quickest way we can give you a heads-up.
Kristen: Yeah.
Caleb: A nod to it, but no time for anything else.
[Kristen laughs]
Kat: See, you know how you all were talking about how Dobby’s not emotional for you because you’re just not connected to him like I’m connected to him? Tonks and Lupin dying, I’m like, okay… book Tonks and Lupin, I’m connected to; movie Tonks and Lupin, I’m not.
Michael: No, I’m not.
Alison: Yeah, I agree.
Michael: I’m the same way.
Kat: It’s the same thing. I have that reaction…
Kristen: Mhm.
Michael: Yeah, I know. I think Tonks and Lupin suffer for that greatly. And actually speaking – since we mentioned earlier deleted scenes, and that’s more Part 2 – but there are some great scenes from Part 2 that were deleted of Lupin and Tonks that kind of make up for… if they had been left in, that might have properly given them a good send-off.
Eric: Are they available on the Blu-Ray?
Michael: I think they are on the Blu-Ray actually – the one where Tonks and Lupin meet up right before they die, and they have…
Alison: Oh, yeah, yeah. That one’s on the DVD, too.
Kat: Yeah.
Alison: That’s like a big deleted scene.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: It’s cute.
Alison: Oh, it’s so sad.
Michael: It’s a very nice scene.
Alison: It’s so sad.
Michael: So… [laughs] he was mentioned a few times already. As Eric said, you may have gotten unexpectedly turned on by him…
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Nick Moran was added to the cast as Scabior.
Eric: I know I was.
[Alison and Kat laugh]
Michael: Interestingly, I don’t know if you guys… this is how I always thought of it as, but Scabior ends up kind of being the replacement for Greyback. Greyback is still there…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: … but Scabior takes on his role instead.
Eric: He’s more palpable…
Kat: Which is good.
Eric: … and by that I mean chase-able.
Alison: Yeah, definitely.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: Apparently there are a lot of you who like that glam rocker look because that’s what they went with.
Kat: No, no, no…
[Alison and Kristen laughs]
Kat: I like Nick Moran; I don’t necessarily like Scabior.
Michael: Yeah, Nick Moran is a handsome fellow.
Eric: But Nick Moran is nothing like Scabior.
[Eric and Kristen laughs]
Kat: I know. [laughs] That’s my point.
Rosie: People just like both as himself and as his character. It’s very unusual. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah.
Eric: He’s got a sort of a Jack Sparrow thing going, but actually…
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: … that comparison, I’m not sure who it hurts more.
[Kat laughs]
Eric: But I like Scabior. I like that they added the Snatchers in this… they gave him basically the embodiment of the entire concept of Snatchers…
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: … [which] is his to play with as a role, and that’s really cool. So I like him in both parts of Deathly Hallows for that reason.
Michael: That’s true because the Snatchers really are kind of… they just show up and do their thing in the book. And in the movies they really are given enough place that you don’t really question them.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: They seem to fit in the world pretty well in the movies…
Eric: Well, and it’s important to drive home the concept that Harry is actively being hunted.
Michael: Yeah.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: I think that’s really hard to convey in this film.
Michael: Mhm.
Eric: I think the film still struggles a little bit with that.
Michael: Absolutely.
Kat: And at least they have a character who can finally carry a wand since Greyback technically isn’t supposed to have one.
[Alison laughs]
Eric: Yes.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: Don’t tell him that to his face.
[Alison and Michael laughs]
Kat: I won’t.
Alison: Hasn’t Nick Moran talked about how he wanted those boots, but as soon as they started running he was like, “This was a bad idea”?
[Everyone laughs]
Alison: Because they’re just those huge…
Eric: I think he did say something like that.
Alison: … chunky boots that [laughs] are impossible to run in.
Michael: And also worth mentioning, Nick Moran as Scabior has a pretty substantial deleted scene at the part where they capture the trio. I’m assuming it was deleted because…
Alison: Ugh.
Michael: … and I don’t use the word lightly…
Alison: Ugh.
Michael: It’s very much… it borders on a rape scene…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: … like as he talks to Hermione. I think it was kind of pushing the PG-13 rating with the content.
Kat: Well, just like the book, right? Because the book…
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: We’ve talked about this a little bit…
Alison: We talked about…
Kat: Greyback is very intense in the novel…
Michael: Aggressive. Yeah.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: Absolutely.
Kat: We have another caller on the line. Hello, caller.
Caller: Hi. [sneezes] Excuse me. This is Jordan, FlightyTemptress.
Kat: Hello.
Eric: Hey, Jordan, I enjoyed your chat today. [laughs]
Caller: I have a question about… regarding deleted scenes.
Kat: Mhm.
Caller: Do you think if they had included the scene with the Dursleys, it really would have made that storyline actually end?
Alison: Yes! 100% yes. I love that deleted scene.
Eric: Aah! Ooh, that deleted scene is still not everything I wanted out of the Dursleys.
Michael: Okay, so first…
Eric: It’s not.
Michael: Before we talk about it, let’s tell the listeners what that is if they haven’t seen it because a few people haven’t. First of all, there’s a section of that deleted scene where Dudley gets his proper goodbye. It’s actually played for laughs…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: … a little more than it is in the book. And then there’s actually an additional scene that’s not from the book where Harry goes into the empty living room and has a conversation with Petunia, where he is hit with the reality that she was Lily’s sister and that she had an emotional tie to her sister.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: Wait a minute, I’m pretty sure I’ve only seen one of those two scenes.
Kat: Oh, okay.
Michael: Really? [laughs]
Alison: Really?
Eric: That… I don’t know how. That’s weird. I don’t think I’ve seen the Petunia one. I think I’ve only seen the other one.
Alison: Ooh! See, that’s the best one.
Kat: Yeah, the Petunia one is expanded from that one line where it’s like, “She looked like she was going to say something but then didn’t and left.”
Eric: Yeah.
Kat: That’s where they got that one little scene from.
Eric: Ahh.
Michael: Yeah, they basically fan-wrote what they thought Petunia would have said. [laughs]
[Alison and Kristen laughs]
Michael: And you know what’s interesting?
Eric: It’s not like they had J.K. Rowling on speed dial that they could just ask her.
[Kristen laughs]
Michael: Well, okay, so we’ve got the dancing scene, and the chat said the deleted scene with Petunia gives you sympathy for her that she doesn’t deserve, in my opinion.
Kat: Huh…
Michael: And what’s interesting to me with that scene was that I actually think that scene really connects well with the memories in Part 2.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: That’s true.
Michael: Because you kind of just forget that relationship, I think, in the movies because it’s not touched on very much at all. So to have had that… but I will say personally that I think – and we can talk about that; I’d love to talk about the opening scene. Of course after we get Scrimgeour’s little speech – and we’ll talk about about Scrimgeour, too – but after we get his speech, we see the trio in their current states before things occur, and I actually… as much as I love those deleted scenes, and it would have been nice to see that closure for the Dursleys, I think the scene the way it’s cut is way more rewarding.
Kat: Yeah, I agree that…
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: … the silence, because there [are] no words, except really Hermione’s parents calling her name.
Alison: Yeah, and even the music, that’s one of my favorite tracks on this score, because it starts … even if you just listen to it normally for a full thirty seconds or something you can’t hear it even though it’s going. It’s so soft and then it just builds, and builds, and builds, until you get to that huge just… oh! It’s beautiful. It’s one of the most beautiful tracks on that score.
Kat: The whole score in general. Let’s be real.
Alison: Oh, yeah! Yeah. No, this is probably my favorite complete score – is both Deathly Hallows. They’re so… ugh.
Eric: The Decoy Detonators in the Ministry is my top track, I think.
[Kristen laughs]
Michael: Yeah, so Alexandre Desplat has taken over for the series. So he’s newer, and interestingly now, he’s all over the place.
Eric: Bless him. He was the right choice.
Michael: Yes.
Alison: Oh, he’s phenomenal.
Kat and Kristen: Uh-huh.
Michael: Oh, he’s …
Alison: So I love John Williams’ scores, but John Williams’ scores are so much more present. Someone was talking about once – I read or looked up something – his scores are like a character in and of themselves in all of the movies he does, but Deplat’s are so much more subtle that sometimes you hardly notice they’re even there, but in a good way. They just build your emotions so much, whereas I feel like the ones from Goblet of Fire through Half-Blood Prince are a little forgettable. I forget the music in those…
Eric: I don’t know, I like Nick Hooper.
Alison: … but I can remember…
Eric: There are music selections that I like from all of the movies but, of course, the best ones are at the theme park, like…
Kat: Right, I was just thinking that.
Kristen: Oh, yes.
Michael: I always…
Kristen: Definitely.
Michael: I always thought that Desplat and Williams… I enjoy their full scores, verses…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: … the ones in the middle I enjoy…
Alison: I’m the same.
Michael: … selections. [laughs]
Alison: Yeah. I’m the same, definitely.
Michael: So… and Desplat has gone on, and you’ll see… before Harry Potter he was doing quite a bit. He scored for Fantastic Mr. Fox, Curious Case of Benjamin Button, he helped a little bit with Twilight [laughs] surprisingly…
[Rosie laughs]
Michael:… he’s gone to do many things, and he’s still being nominated for many of the movies he’s doing. He was just – I believe – nominated this year for The Danish Girl which, of course, has our good old Eddie Redmayne. So he’s still doing very prolific work, and I think Potter‘s actually afforded him a lot of even bigger opportunities, but yeah, he’s… his scores very remarkable here. I think that the big stand out point that he made quite a bit of discussion of was that he wanted to make sure to do tribute to Williams with Hedwig’s Theme, but make sure that he was also developing his own stuff too, and you’ll notice in the film that post Hedwig’s demise, he doesn’t really use that theme anymore. He’s very…
Kat: Right.
Michael: … careful about that.
Alison: Aww!
Michael: So…
Kat: We have a caller on the line.
Kat and Michael: Hello.
Alison: Hi!
Caller: Hey! It’s Shauna, Ice Pixie 165 in the chat.
Kat: Hello.
Michael: Hey, Shauna.
Caller: I’m so excited to be on with all you guys, because it’s been a while since my episode, and I didn’t get to talk to everyone, so yay! This is fun.
[Kat laughs]
Caller: I wanted to talk about the dancing scene [laughs] because…
Michael: Oh!
Caller: [unintelligible]
Alison: Oh, the dancing scene.
Caller: … it was so polarizing, so I wanted, for people who didn’t participate in the chat, for them to get to hear the conversation about that. And whether we think it’s romantic, or friendly, or what.
Eric: Well, look…
Michael: Before we weigh in Shauna, what are your feelings on the dancing scene? [laughs]
Caller: I think it’s one of the most beautiful scenes in any of the movies. I happen to be very close with a lot of guys, and it’s something i can see myself doing if I were in a situation like that, that we’re completely hopeless, and we were being forced to mature at a fast rate. It’s just a moment – for me I think – where Harry is saying to Hermione, “We’re kids. This is the last moment we’re going to get to be teenagers, let’s just be silly for one last time” and then it ends so abruptly and then that’s it and they move on, and it’s all downhill from there.
Eric: It’s a brief reprieve of reality of the harshness of the reality of the world they’re living in. So I think it’s a very special moment too, and I’m not a Hermione/Harry shipper at all. I understand many people’s comments that seems to indicate David Yates definitely is. And I think that’s probably right. And Steve Kloves. They go out of their way to write these sorts of scenes…
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: … where these characters interact in a more-than-friendly manner, but I don’t think this is more than friendly at all, and I think the dancing scene is very welcomed because it explores how the inner workings of the characters, what’s happening. They need that moment of levity because there’s so much that’s just gone wrong. Ron has left, and in the books you get that because you are in Harry’s head, but in the movie I think it was really important to show them, as you say, having that one last bout of fun before the end. It’s a tender moment between friends, but it’s not sexual.
Michael: Do any of us in the group not like the dancing scene?
Alison: I used to not. It used to bother me a lot when this movie first came out, but it’s really grown on me. The past couple of times I’ve watched this movie… it’s just this lovely little moment of them just being friends and trying to cheer each other up and it does; it ends so abruptly. It just stops. The moments over and reality has come back and it’s really grown on me.
Kat: It’s by far one of my favorite added scenes.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: It even won when MuggleNet did the Harry Potter Oscars a few years ago. It won “Favorite Added Scene” that wasn’t in the books, so I feel like in general people really like it. I am also not a Harmony shipper. I just think it’s really beautiful because it’s true to Harry’s character, right?
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: That even though all this stuff is going on, he’s trying to make his friend feel good, and…
Eric: Send the tissues [unintelligible]…
Kat: … he knows that she is really sad and very depressed and…
Eric: You also get the idea that Dan made Emma laugh a lot.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah, definitely.
Eric: You just really get that, and that would normally be jarring for me. I would be like, “Oh, the actors had fun. I don’t want to know about that.” But you just have a feeling… that is almost the moment where Harry and Hermione are the most Harry and Hermione-like, for some reason, in a weird way, doesn’t quite make sense as it’s coming out my mouth.
[Kat laughs]
Eric: But I think that those two humans and those two characters have never been closer.
Michael: I have always liked the dancing scene, actually because I think the Harry Potter movies, as good as they are as adaptations, they do have to go so quickly through more complex ideas that they don’t really get to be as complex as the books in terms of making you as an audience member think. You don’t really have to think very hard when you watch Harry Potter, which is unfortunate because the books ask you to think.
Eric: You kidding? I’m thinking all the time.
[Alison, Michael, and Rosie laugh]
Kristen: That’s just you.
Michael: Thinking about how angry you are at the movies, probably.
Eric: I’m trying to make sense of what is going on. Who are these people? What am I doing here?
Michael: Well, and yeah, I think what is nice about that scene is it leaves you with a lot of questions. It’s open to interpretation. A lot of the Harry Potter scenes aren’t open to interpretation in the movies. You can’t really question what happened. But there you can, because a lot of fans say, “Oh, it is straight up Harry-Hermione shipping and Steve Kloves was just living out his little character fantasy.” Which… that’s a fair argument, but you could also just as easily read it as these are two individuals who are going through a very deep crisis and they just need a moment, laugh for just a minute, hit with the reality of the situation. Fun fact, for all of you. Live! Oh God.
Eric: One of these again. Not a dream.
Michael: And most of you probably know this but for those of you who don’t: Listeners, the song that is playing on the radio is “O Children” by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Look it up, it’s a fantastic song.
Alison: It’s a haunting song.
Michael: Yes, it’s a very perfect… they went through a lot of songs when they were trying to figure out which one was the right one and they liked this song not only because it focuses on the idea of children being… the next generation being put through difficulty but also because it specifically mentions a train and they liked the imagery that that brings up with the Hogwarts Express. So that is partly why that was selected as the perfect song. And this particular scene also opens up the discussion to a few other things that people noticed were altered or eliminated. One big thing that a lot of people were talking about at the beginning was the complete… and we’ve already talked a little bit about how Tonks was put on the sideline, but the complete elimination of the Tonks family as the home that they arrived to after the Battle of the Seven Potters. Personally, I thought that was okay. I don’t really miss … [laughs]
Kat: Yes, I didn’t miss it.
Rosie: There’s no reason for it to be there.
Michael: We’ve already introduced a few characters that we don’t know. Like, “Oh, another Weasley child.” So why introduce a whole family of Tonks-es now. [laughs] It’s more of an emotional punch to have them arrive at a place like the Burrow, wouldn’t you say?
Kat: Well, and the only reason that we were introduced to them in the beginning of the book is because we see Ted later.
Michael: Yes, because Ted needs to relay information.
Kat: Exactly.
Michael: And then die, so unfortunately.
Kat: Right.
Eric: It is just a wider world in the books: Hestia Jones and the people who were taking the Dursleys off to safety. The books can afford to be much more detailed and much more layered.
Kat: Dean Thomas.
Eric: Yes.
Michael: Well, and what’s interesting too is, with that elimination of characters like Dean and Ted and Dirk Cresswell, all of the information ends up actually coming through Harry, Ron, and Hermione.
Alison: For no reason.
Michael: How do we feel about that? Because that really does change how the information progresses – because I know, for example, Eric, I know you’ve complained a lot during the book read about how there’s just convenient information drops or things like that and here, is this a better way to work it or is it worse?
Eric: I don’t think it really stood out that they were knowing things that they shouldn’t. It’s something about the realism, something about how it’s played made it seem more realistic somehow. Do you have a specific example of when they were just blurting out something they shouldn’t have known?
Rosie: The radio happened a bit earlier which gives them a way of getting information without needing an explanation of Ted and the rest of them.
Michael: That’s true. The radio is relegated to the background. Potterwatch is there, it’s just very quiet.
Eric: That’s the weird thing, even the dancing scene, that song just happens to be in focus. It comes on and when the song is over the radio fades out magically. I thought the magical world was giving them that moment together.
Michael: Probably the biggest alternate info dump scene is actually when instead of having Ted, Dirk and Dean and the goblins relaying information from a nearby tent, Harry and Hermione just have a brilliant moment when Hermione is cutting Harry’s hair and it just all comes spewing out. I actually like it just because the film is so intent on keeping the three of them so isolated that it seems to work just to not introduce anybody else from outside. And we have another caller on the line.
Kat: We do.
Caller: Hi.
Kat: Hello.
Eric: Hey.
Michael: Hi. Introduce yourself.
Caller: I’m Jessica or MischiefManaged on the forums. I’m really excited. Sorry. I was just wondering, someone mentioned in the chat that they didn’t do the Harry and Ginny break-up scene and I know you guys have talked in the past about how terrible the Harry and Ginny relationship is done in the movies. So I wonder what you guys think about if that would have added anything to that relationship or if it would have just been out of place given the way they treat that.
Michael: So we’re going to talk about “zip me up,” huh?
[Alison, Kat, Kristen, and Rosie laugh]
Eric: Oh no, no. They need to walk away. They need to walk away from Ginny and Harry, don’t give them anything more to do. In the books I wanted several more chapters. I won’t lie. Even if it was just Harry and Ginny. I want it all. Movie? No. Go away. Don’t ruin it.
[Kristen laughs]
Michael: To be fair…
Eric: They’ve proven that they cannot do…
Alison: There is just…
Eric: … it. There is just something wrong when they try to…
Kristen: It just doesn’t work in the movie.
Eric: I don’t think there is no chemistry. I don’t think that is it.
Michael: Oh, I think there is zero chemistry.
Alison: There is no chemistry and it is not written well either, so it is just like, “What?”
Eric: If there was better writing, there could be better… yeah. It is bad.
Caleb: I don’t know. Maybe I’m alone in this, but given the pacing that they have to move through the Burrow, the time they’ve spent in the Burrow, I actually don’t have that much of a problem with this scene.
Alison: It’s hilarious.
Caleb: Because I think if they were going to do the make out scene and Ron getting mad that would have taken too much time. It would have been even more out of place. I think it’s just the pacing that they chose for shooting the Burrow and the lead up to the wedding and then you have the humor of… I can’t remember if it was Fred or George… it is Fred that catches them, right?
Kat: Mhm.
Alison: Yeah.
Caleb: Yeah. So… and the humor there… I don’t know, I was actually okay with it. Yeah.
[Alison laughs]
Kat: Yeah. I’m with you. I’m perfectly okay with that scene. It doesn’t bother me at all. Because you don’t get…
Eric: No, I like it. It is just…
Kat: … you don’t get Ginny and Harry in the last movie, so why should they be breaking up in this movie because as far as we know they’re not together.
Kristen: Yeah.
Rosie: I think Ginny coming in and asking Harry to zip up her dress is the most Ginny out of all of the Ginnys you see in the film. The confidence that it would take the character to go out and do that – that is more Ginny. That is her being flirty. Unfortunately, it doesn’t quite come across that way.
[Michael and Rosie laugh]
Rosie: It would have been a bit more humorous if she was playing with it a bit more. It would be more fun. Just the lack of actual chemistry, any spark there, is just…
[Alison and Rosie laugh]
Eric: She is sort of like the obligatory “We know these characters are going to end up together so let’s just put her in a scene when Harry has got to do other stuff and got other stuff on his mind.”
Kat: It is lip service to the book-readers.
Alison: Oh yeah.
Eric: Or tries to be.
Michael: I suppose the results of the Harry/Ginny…
Alison: Also, that kiss is just awkward.
Rosie: And it is a very pretty dress. [laughs]
Eric: I love the dress.
Caleb: Guys – I just see it being more than being an awkward… and maybe I’m reading too much into it the more I watch it… I see more than just an awkward moment. The more I see it, I don’t see asking him to zip her up… that is a flirty moment, but the conversation they’re having and the intimate space… I just see a little more there than just this odd, almost sexual tension.
Rosie: The scene is fine, it is just the acting that is awkward.
Kristen: In the chat, ISeeThestrals, I like how they say, “Ginny seems very adult in this scene with Harry.” And that is what I think it is for – adult.
Caleb: Yeah, right.
Michael: Yeah. It is like home life.
Rosie: The situation, yeah.
Eric: I’ve always liked Bonnie Wright as Ginny. But I do think they give her dreadful things to do, or not enough.
Michael: But as many people screamed in the chat, which was nice to see, “Another!”
[Alison and Kat laugh]
Eric: They really like your Thor cup thing.
Michael: Apparently, yes.
[Kristen laughs]
Michael: I wish I could take credit, but that is all Thor.
[Eric, Kat, and Michael laugh]
Eric: No, you popularized it, I think. Not many people saw that movie.
Michael: [laughs] We’ve got another caller.
Caller: Hello.
Kat: Hello.
Eric: Hey!
Michael: Introduce yourself.
Caller: Hi. I’m calling to talk about the movie chat?
Michael: Yeah. You’re in the right place. What is your name?
Caller: I’m David, DaveyBJones999 from the forums.
Michael: Oh.
Eric: Hey, Davey.
Michael: Good to talk to you.
Caller: Hello, everybody. This is my first time calling into the show.
Eric: Thank you for calling in.
Michael: Do you have something to ask us?
Caller: I just wanted to talk a little about them cutting out the conversation about Dumbledore and his family from the movie. Because I think that is the one thing that I think I missed the most out of the movies. The one subplot that I think we’re missing the most by losing and I wonder what everybody else has to say about that.
Rosie: I definitely agree. We spoke about this just a little bit earlier, but just to build it into the whole Deathly Hallows idea, these movies are named after Deathly Hallows, the books are named after the Deathly Hallows, and Dumbledore’s backstory is so interwoven with that Resurrection Stone and with the whole idea of why you would have the Elder Wand and all of those regrets and why we should pick one Hallow over the other. To not have it makes the Deathly Hallows just seem…
Michael: Cheap?
Rosie: Cheap. Very superficial. From the films, the only thing you would want is the Elder Wand because it’s powerful. In the books, you can understand the reasons for wanting all three different Hallows and why they’re so powerful when they are together and why. So it is so significant when Harry has them all at the end.
Kat: I definitely remember thinking and hoping that they were going to explore that more in Part 2.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Which obviously did not come to fruition.
Eric: Just the notion that Dumbledore wanted them and sought them and that was a deal to him is left out.
Michael: Yeah, I think it actually… that is the equivalent of damaging the plot as eliminating the Marauders was from Prisoner and onward, taking that out. That layer is gone.
Eric: I would actually completely agree with that. I would agree completely with what Rosie said too. Yeah. It is missing. It is certainly something that I think it’s more conspicuous for certain people like people who are looking for… like for me, in the films I want as little Dumbledore as possible. Michael Gambon, to me, did not nail Dumbledore until late in Movie 6. Movie 6 was the first time that I thought Michael Gambon was my Dumbledore or as close to book Dumbledore as it was possible to get. I always just think anything with Dumbledore is pretty awkward because I just think of the Michael Gambon portrayal and I can’t stand it, and so seeing him as a kid would have bothered me, I think. I don’t know. That might sound crude, it might sound out of place, but I was okay with the omission of the Dumbledore because I can’t have what I always wanted, which was more Richard Harris.
Michael: Well, and I think what’s weird too, about… what makes it even more bazaar is that there are bits and hints that are in the movie. Rita Skeeter’s book is there and we see a few photos from it. Hermione briefly touches upon it in the Forest of Dean. And then we get, of course, the memories with Jamie Campbell Bower playing young Grindelwald, and none of that is very well explained and you’re kind of like, “Who is that blond guy jumping out of the window?” and “Why is this happening?”
Alison: “Why is he in the book?”
Michael: “Why is he also in the book?” and “Oh, is that young Dumbledore? I can’t tell because Harry turned the page too fast.”
[Kat laughs]
Eric: It’s too dark.
Michael: It’s too dark! That’s like one of the light scenes in the Forest of Dean, you can actually see the book.
Alison: That’s true.
[Michael laughs]
Alison: And there is snow.
Michael: But yeah, I think it… like we said, it’s damaging to the plot, but somehow the movie manages to soldier on without it. And then, as was just mentioned in the chat by a few people, one of the big altered things was Wormtail’s death, which…
Kat: Boo. Hiss.
Alison: Hmm.
Michael: Okay. So, the facts behind this are that Heyman and Yates decided that the scene in the book was, quote, “too juvenile,” and…
Alison: Which makes no sense.
Michael: [laughs] And so, their approach was somehow totally way less juvenile.
[Alison laughs]
Kat: Boo.
Michael: At least David Yates thought so.
Alison: Who gets his wand?
Michael: Yeah.
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Alison: What?
Michael: We’re not really sure…
Alison: Who gets his wand?
Michael: I don’t think Wormtail’s even necessarily dead, he’s just out of it.
Rosie: He’s just knocked out.
Michael: Yeah. He’s out of the picture. And I suppose what suffers there is that his stuff with Harry sacrificing his life and the silver hand is all… that’s all been built up properly.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: The payoff.
Rosie: It’s all to do with the Marauders and without all the Marauders information that was cut from all of the films, none of it would make sense.
Michael: Yeah. So it’s the ending we got. [laughs] Weirdly, though, he does…
Rosie: I do think it would look a bit odd, though, without having explained to have the hand start killing it’s… yeah, acting it would look slightly odd…
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: … and you’d have to think about a way of explaining it and having him fighting against his own hand. So it would have to be carefully done, but I do think it could have been worked out if you had some of the backstory to it.
Kat: Harry could have spouted a few lines while it was happening. It would have been fine.
Alison: Yeah.
Kristen: Mhm.
Michael: About as good or bad as the Mirror showing up for no reason, right?
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Kat: We have a caller. Hello?
Michael: Hello.
Caller: Hi. I’m TheDancingScene on the chat right now.
Eric: Oh, hello.
Caller: I guess my feed is a little bit behind you guys, because I was just listening to the Wormtail part…
Alison, Eric, Kat, and Michael: Yes.
Michael: It is always a little bit…
Caller: … and before I say anything, I just want to give a shout-out to Rosie for getting my Stargate reference on the show chat earlier.
[Kat laughs]
Rosie: It was a good one. I liked it. [laughs]
Caller: And the thing I really wanted to say about Wormtail was I just get so moved by Harry and Ron trying to save his life there.
Alison and Kat: Yeah.
Caller: No matter what else is happening to them, no matter what’s going on upstairs, their basic instinct is still to preserve life instead of destroy it, and I think it’s just so representative of the whole point. I just think it’s beautiful.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: It reminds me of the Draco moment in the end when Harry’s like, “We can’t just leave them here.”
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: “We have to pick them up.” You know?
Rosie: These are his enemies. This is the guy who betrayed his parents and eventually led to their death, and yet he’s still willing to try and save his life. It’s just the gorgeous idea of all life is precious and should be preserved. It’s so important and missing from this scene.
Alison: I just had a thought, too, that I didn’t even think about during the chapter. I wonder what Ron’s feeling. This was his pet. I wonder if there’s some…
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Alison: … residual weird… oh, man. I just thought about that.
Michael: He was awfully attached to Scabbers…
Kristen: Awkward.
Michael: … wasn’t he, back in the day? [laughs]
Alison: Yes. [laughs]
Kat: Oh, boy.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: Profound thought.
Kat: Wow. Good point, Alison. I had never thought of that before. Hopefully Ron has just moved on from that moment and…
Alison: Hopefully.
Kat: … has no emotional attachment to him whatsoever.
Alison: Hopefully… [unintelligible]
Kristen: It’s been quite a few years.
Alison: Woah. Weird.
Michael: Well, okay. And let’s talk about, because we’re hitting on the trio a little bit here. Let’s talk about Dan, Rupert, and Emma a little bit here. Just throw out your general thoughts on the three of them.
Alison: Emma is flawless.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: Except not all the time. Not completely.
Alison: No.
Michael: But basically.
Alison: But mostly. [laughs]
Michael: Okay, so, hitting on Emma first, what’s…
Rosie: Not hitting on Emma.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Hey girl.
Caleb: Hitting on the [unintelligible] that’s my job.
[Alison, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Michael: We love Emma. I actually said in the chat, and I’d be curious to explore this more with you guys and with our listeners. I feel like this is Hermione’s movie. This isn’t Harry’s movie, it’s Hermione’s movie.
Eric: No.
Alison: Oh, yeah.
Eric: No, no, no.
Alison: Oh, yeah.
Eric: It’s not any one’s movie. The trio shine equally.
[Alison laughs]
Michael: And I’m not saying that necessarily in a performance aspect, although I do think Emma… they all kill it with their performances, in my opinion. They’re amazing. But…
Eric: That’s all I’m trying to say.
Michael: … I think that… what’s interesting about that opening scene is that with – in the trio’s section – is that it begins and ends with Emma…
Alison: Mhm.
Michael: … and not Harry. Not with Dan. And he’s in the middle of those and Emma bookends it. And the movie goes to great lengths to keep recalling the action that Hermione takes in the beginning, of erasing her parents’ memories. That scene comes up again multiple times throughout the film. Why? Why this focus on Hermione rather than Harry?
Rosie: Because I think it’s the fact that this is Harry’s ultimate battle. The whole storyline revolves around him finding and defeating Voldemort. But to see how it affects his best friends makes it even more impactful. This is a girl who grew up in the Muggle world, so she represents us going into this magical world where she has finally found a place for herself, and now she having to erase herself from the life that she’s always known in order to protect this life that she’s trying to build. So, in terms of having a meta-plotline where she represents us as a Muggle audience, her removing herself from those pictures is like us removing ourselves from our world so that we can fight this battle. So, yeah, just the emotional anchor within that scene is so important for us to understand what’s going on in the film.
Kat: That’s what I was just going to say. I think that Emma and Hermione’s character has really always been the emotional center of the trio.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: The one who really sets the tone and you know that if she’s worried, there’s something to really be worried about, I guess with the exception of maybe the “killed or expelled” scene. So I think that having Hermione be the one to really set the tone is most important in this scene.
Michael: Fun fact, straight out of Page to Screen here, it says Emma Watson also knew enough about Hermione to give Stephenie McMillan some advice on her bedroom’s decor. Emma said, and I’ll read it in Hermione-voice even though that’s not Emma’s voice, “I remember walking in Hermione’s room and it just looked too girly. I’ve been playing her for so long now I feel I intuitively know what she’d like and what she’d want. Hermione is a very voracious reader. “Why are there not more books,” I asked. There need to be more books everywhere.
Alison: I love her.
Michael: Just as much as we often cite Evanna Lynch for contributing a lot to Luna’s character and her actions and the decor and what she wears, Emma Watson was also going to great lengths as well to ensure that Hermione was portrayed true-to-form. Going the extra mile, which I thought was great.
Eric: I have to say also showing this scene on film worked so much better than telling it.
Alison: Oh, yeah. It’s so much more impactful.
Eric: It’s so impactful to actually be able to see it. We talked earlier about the filmmakers just actively paying off readers and this is one of those moments where it’s like, “We’re going to capture this and make it the start of the film.” But I think it works exactly the way that Rosie said. It is emotional. It draws you in for the audience.
Kat: Plus we get to see adorable baby pictures of Emma, let’s be real.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: They’re so cute.
Rosie: Earlier, they were talking about how all three characters are strong, all three actors are really strong, perhaps at varying times. It kind of struck me that Emma and Hermione are given the emotional part at the beginning of the film, and then when we get to the middle of the film when Ron leaves, Rupert just steals the show. That argument is just so raw and so amazing. And someone else mentioned Dan really sells it when Dobby dies and the emotion of that scene. So we’ve got all three actors having those shining moments throughout the film and balancing out the whole idea the whole emotional up-and-downs throughout. Everyone gets their own moment.
Eric: And it works so well. I don’t know how they did it. But filming it back-to-back with Part 2 which is just this running leap towards the finale. To me, it’s so action. It’s like, how do you do this? I guess it’s called acting.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: But I love this movie so much for its slightly more minor key.
Michael: But I think there was a lot of trepidation on a lot of people’s part wondering if the three of them could actually take this on because there was the foreknowledge that this movie was the one where the three of them were going to have to hold the movie up on their shoulders almost completely. And I think they do it.
Alison: I definitely do.
Eric: I think that Scabior and Xeno hold it.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: And that art, that animated scene.
Alison: Going back to Rupert for a second, though.
Eric: Yes, Rupert love.
Alison: He does so well. He finally gets a chance to shine and I think the script really finally gave him a chance to…
Kat: To act.
Alison: Yeah, to be as amazing as he can be. And I think that’s one of the weaknesses of the earlier films is that Rupert’s pretty amazing and they just didn’t give him any moments that he could’ve had from the books.
Rosie: He is such a good dramatic actor. He needs to be in gritty films where he gets to be that really dark character.
Eric: If you’ve watched recently Philosopher’s Stone/Sorcerer’s Stone, he is amazing in that movie.
Kat: Oh, yeah.
Eric: He is so good in Movie 1. And then watching Movie 7 here, it’s like he was always really good. It’s just he was underused.
Michael: The example I always cite of the three of them is back during Sorcerer’s Stone when they were interviewed and they were asked what they would do with all their money at a press conference, Dan very quietly went, “I dunno.” And Emma said, “I’d put mine in a savings account for college.” And Rupert said, “I don’t know what I’m supposed to do with this money because they’re giving us Muggle money. They’re not giving us Galleons and stuff. So what am I supposed to do with that?”
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: And Rupert was always like that throughout the whole series, I think. He just loved Harry Potter from the beginning. He was so steeped in it as a fan.
Rosie: Rupert just understands the books. He understands the characters. He understands the heart and he just sells it every single time. He lived those movies and he lived those books.
Michael: Yeah, so it’s nice he gets a chance to finally do something other than mugging and being silly. He’s got some substantial work to do in this movie. Of course, there is rugged woodsman Daniel.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: As he was termed in the chat, which I certainly didn’t have a problem with. Like that wardrobe. What’s interesting about Dan, the thing I’ve often said about his acting, I think he’s the one that actually grew the most with his acting over the course of the eight films.
Alison: Oh, definitely.
Michael: The one thing you don’t see anymore is that twitchy Daniel Radcliffe lip when he’s angry. That has finally stopped. And Kat, you mentioned this a few movies ago, that the stage was perhaps what helped Daniel with that.
Kat: Oh yeah, I think so. I feel like that’s true for a lot of actors. It either really helps you or it completely turns you off. I think having that openness and that rawness and that live aspect really helped Dan grow. And I think he’s a great actor, then and now.
Michael: Yeah, and again shouldering a lot of this movie on him when he wasn’t quite doing it at that level he did a pretty impressive job all things considered. So that’s the trio. We’ve hit on them plenty enough. They’re great. We love them. Now it was mentioned just briefly and let’s expand on it because it’s an amazing… actually let’s go to this one because the trio goes nicely into that. There’s another trio who showed up in this movie who showed up playing the trio. Sophie Thompson…
Eric: Ahh.
Michael: … was added as Mafalda Hopkirk. She was replacing Jessica Hynes who did the voice in Order of the Phoenix during the talking letters scene. She also just so happens to be the sister of Emma Thompson, Sybill Trelawney. No more fun relationships. David O’hara took on Runcorn and, I believe it’s, Steffan Rhodri was Reg Cattermole and these three often get singled out for their performance. Why?
Alison: Because it’s amazing.
[Michael laughs]
Alison: I just noticed, this time especially, that David O’Hara’s facial expressions match Dan’s confused expression so well. [laughs]
Eric: On point.
Alison: It’s kind of creepy.
Michael: There’s… what makes it…
Kat: You notice too, the more you look at them – is that they really look like…
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: … Dan and Emma and Rupert. It’s some weird amalgamation of them and the trio – it’s weird.
Michael: Yeah, that…
Kat: But I love it, like a good weird. Very [unintelligible].
Michael: Well, and that leads into the discussion too about the Polyjuice Potion and it’s… [laughs] in a way you kind of don’t realize it when you’re reading the book but when it’s all condensed into the movie you’re just like, “Wow, Polyjuice Potion is used a lot in this storyline…”
[Alison laughs]
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: … and what’s… there was a lot of discussion in the chat about kind of the inconsistencies with Polyjuice Potion and the sacrifices that have to be made for it on film. Probably the biggest one being that you still hear the characters’ voices even though they’re completely different people and in a way it’s kind of funny because they did seem to, as you all noticed, choose actors who looked like the characters. So in a way, did they need to do the voices as the actors?
Rosie: There [are] inconsistencies, though.
Alison: [unintelligible] at all.
Michael: Yeah.
Rosie: I’m not sure. Because didn’t, in Chamber of Secrets, didn’t it have the boys being…
Alison: I don’t know, I think…
Michael: In Chamber of Secrets, yes. They use…
Alison: … I think it’s Rupert and Dan’s…
Michael: It’s Rupert and Dan’s voices…
Alison: Are you sure?
Michael: … but… in the Goblet of Fire, Moody doesn’t have David Tennant’s voice.
Alison: That’s…
Rosie: That’s true, but then that would be a big spoiler as to…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: Of course it would. So, there you go. [laughs] Plot. But…
Rosie: I guess you could say that Barty Crouch Jr. could have spend some time learning how Moody would speak and then…
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: … developing that and putting style on his voice to make it sound the same. Whereas Harry, Ron and Hermione wouldn’t learn that, so…
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: You could get around it quite easily
Alison: They do bring that up in Chamber of Secrets too, where they’re like trying to sound more like Crabbe and Goyle?
Kat: I was going to say, because they clear their throat and then their voice gets all deeper and everything.
Michael: [laughs] “Stomach ache.”
Alison: Yeah. But it’s still their voices I think.
Michael: Yeah.
Alison: So…
Michael: Yeah, it is. So the fantastic performance on their part can be attributed to Sophie, David, and Steffan had all watched the trio extensively. There was a lot of observing of each other on the set. A lot of actors [unintelligible]…
Rosie: I think, though…
Eric: I just want to know what that looks like.
Rosie: … that they did the scene with the original trio and then they watched it…
Michael: Yup.
Rosie: … and then they did it again so that they could actually see how it would [unintelligible].
Alison: Oh, did they do that with this one too?
Michael: Yeah.
Alison: I thought they just did that with the Bellatrix…
Michael: Another fun fact for you. Before the reshoots, as they were heading into post-production – the reshoots were done on the epilogue which they realized was a mistake the first time they shot it. The scene where Harry, Ron, and Hermione jump into the fireplace is the final scene that was filmed on camera for the entire series. So that big jump, as they said, it was the leap out to the end.
Kat: Aww.
Michael: So that’s quite a meaningful scene. It’s nice because you get to see it in slow motion in the movie. Actually that… I love that scene. That’s probably one of my favorite scenes…
Alison: Yeah. It’s so good.
Michael: … in Deathly Hallows – Part 1 is the chase. I know it’s actually pretty slow paced and more like strategic in the book, but I love a good chase scene. And that chase scene is done particularly well. Good use of your slow motion movie, that doesn’t usually happen anymore. But what other scenes, we… oh, okay. Oh, we’ve got a caller before we even go on to another scene. And it looks like somebody we might know too if we can [laughs]…
Kat: Maybe. I think she’s still popping in here.
Michael: Okay! Well… there she is!
Kat: Amanda! Hello.
Caller: Hello, guys.
Kat: Hi!
Alison: It’s Bellatrix! Good day.
Kristen: Boo!
Caller: I still have my knife on me. Isn’t that crazy?
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Doesn’t Dobby have your knife?
Alison: Oh!
Caller: Yeah, you know. Space/time continuum. I got it back again.
Eric: Oh.
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Caller: Just be glad I don’t have like a stuffy of Dobby laying around the house.
Kat: Oh my God! You wouldn’t do that!
[Alison and Kristen laugh]
Eric: Uhh… Christmas gift ideas. I wonder what to get her, guys.
Michael: Amanda! What do you want to talk about? I wonder. Do tell.
Caller: I was going to pitch in my opinion on 3D because I think I might have been the only one watching it on 3D tonight.
Michael: Yes.
Caller: It’s such a shame that they didn’t get it finished for theatrical release because the Seven Potters scene, the Three Brothers story… ugh. It is so beautiful in 3D and I hope that everyone gets an opportunity to watch it that way one day. Whether you like 3D or not.
Michael: In a way, I can see that being beneficial in this movie because there isn’t that gimmicky nature in Deathly Hallows – Part 1 of the 3D. It isn’t the “in your face, let’s pop something out of the screen” like…
Caller: Yeah… I don’t know. It’s pretty amazing in Part 2 as well, like I must admit I cried inside when I saw the dome go over Hogwarts in 3D on my own TV at home, but that’s for the next film.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Caller: Home 3D and cinema 3D – somehow it looks better on a home 3D TV. I don’t know if the technology is different or…
Kat: Maybe… and I think you’re just allowed to cry a bit more when you’re at home too.
[Kat, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Eric: It’s a safer place.
Caller: There’s nothing I’m crying about over this movie except for maybe…
Eric: Definitely not Dobby.
Caller: Definitely not Dobby. I’m cheering.
[Eric and Kristen laugh]
Caller: But the one thing that I am closest to crying about is Hedwig’s death.
Alison: Oh!
Caller: What do you guys think about the change?
Michael: Do you… what do you think about the change, Amanda? Do you like it?
Kristen: I love it. I love this scene better.
Caller: I love it. I think it’s actually better than what Jo wrote. And probably one of the only times that the film makes a change that is like, “Jo, you should have done it that way to start with.”
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Yeah, that one, and Harry saying, “Sorry, Professor, I must not tell lies.”
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: Those are the two that I’m like, “Yup, those fit.” Oh, and the fish. Slughorn’s fish.
Alison: Yeah.
[Michael laughs]
Alison: I like the fish!
Michael: I love the fish. Well, I think what’s neat about Hedwig’s death, what works with it so well, is that not only does it give her a better send-off, but it’s also actually relevant to the plot.
Alison: Yeah!
Michael: Because it not only serves that purpose, but it also replaces Stan Shunpike being present during the Seven Potters battle. Because in a way, in the movies, that would make less sense.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: So that ends up actually serving a plot point, and also giving a better send-off to Hedwig. I think what was interesting was that in the promotional stuff, the only thing that was revealed was that Harry sends Hedwig off from the Dursleys’.
Eric: Oh, right!
Michael: So a lot of people actually thought Hedwig was going to survive the movie.
Eric: Yeah, that would have been a cool change!
Michael: That didn’t happen.
Kat: There’s a caller on the line, and we’re hearing ourselves again. Hello, caller!
Caller: Hi!
Eric: Hey!
Caller: I’m Sarah. I’m… hello?
Michael: Hi.
Rosie: Hey!
Caller: Hi. Sorry, this is… I’m excited.
[Kat laughs]
Caller: I’m Flying My Ford Anglia on the forums.
Rosie: Oh, cool!
Caller: I’m pretty new, but anyway… it’s a little bit off-topic, but I just wanted to give the obligatory, “I love the way that the film adapted the ‘Three Brothers’ tale.” Every time I watch this movie, I’m always blown away by how well they did that. The imagery and the animation, or whatever that they did there, I always felt was just so incredible.
Michael: Agreed.
Eric: I completely agree. Completely agree.
Alison: Mhm.
Michael: Now, the… okay, so let’s go into that because that’s probably one of the most striking moments in any of the Potter films. A lot of people cite “The Tale of the Three Brothers” because a lot of people were wondering how they were going to do it. And the animation style of “The Tale of the Three Brothers” is actually… this was my big Potter film moment when I first saw the movie. In my head, I was pointing at the screen and being like, “I know the reference! I get it! There’s a thing going on here!”
[Kat laughs]
Michael: This animation is inspired by Lotte Reiniger. She made one of the first animated films. She actually didn’t make the very first one – those films have not survived – but she has the first film that still has survived through time that was animated. It’s called The Tale of Prince Achmed; it’s stop motion and done with paper cutouts and sand. And it’s sloggingly long and absurd, and it’s based on the tales of the Arabian Nights. But it’s a beautifully shot film. It’s hard to get through just because it’s a bit difficult to watch because it’s very long, but it’s beautiful to look at. And that is the direct inspiration, I’m assuming, because just as “The Tale of the Three Brothers” is the original wizarding fairy tale, there’s a loving tribute to film fairy tales because The Tale of Prince Achmed was one of the first animated fairy tales ever put on screen. And that’s where that stylized, wood-cut look of the characters comes from. And some people have cited that they felt that this scene stands out a little too much because it’s animated and it’s the first scene like this that we’ve ever seen in Potter. What do you guys feel about this scene?
Kat: I want it to stand out, so I’m okay with that. And I love it. I think it’s absolutely beautiful.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: I like the stylistic choice being different. I’m glad they didn’t film it, also, because if they filmed it then they could have cut it like they did the “Snape’s Worst Memory” scene and every other scene that was ever filmed of backstory.
Caleb: Yeah, I agree. I didn’t realize that people… I’ve never really heard that criticism, that people didn’t like that it stood out as so distinct. But that’s interesting. I definitely love it.
Alison: Yeah. It’s just beautiful.
Eric: I mean, it’s a story within a story, so it should be different.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: The other thing that makes it work – that people don’t often give credit for – but Emma Watson is doing a pretty fantastic voiceover job in that section.
Eric: She did, yes. She will be the next Morgan Freeman.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Well, I don’t know about that, but she’s definitely a very good reader. And she actually has said in interviews before, that was one of the hardest scenes for her to do voiceover in ADR because she actually had to keep tempo with the animation that was already done and still convey the emotion of the Prince’s… or not the Prince’s Tale, that’s different. The “Three Brothers” tale. I thought she did a beautiful job on that.
Kat: The important question to ask, Eric, is can she pronounce “penguin”? Is really the important question.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Eric: Can she pronounce “penguin”?
Kat: Penguin. “Pengwing.”
Michael: The “pengwings”?
Kat: Have you not seen that Benedict Cumberbatch thing where he can’t say penguin? He says “pengwing” and “penwin”…
Alison: It’s so funny.
Rosie: I think Emma would probably say penguin.
[Alison and Kristen laugh]
Eric: Now I need to ask her that next time we talk.
[Alison, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Michael: So some of the other scenes that people were talking a lot about, really… the scene that didn’t get really any criticism, mostly just praise overall, was Godric’s Hollow. Thoughts?
Alison: Oh.
Eric: And that’s my least favorite part of this film!
Alison: What?
Michael: Really, why?
Eric: Yeah. Oh, God. Well, I don’t like it in the book and I don’t like it in the film.
Alison and Michael: Oh!
Eric: I mean, it just creeps me out.
Caleb: Oh, you are on an island with that.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, I don’t know. In the film it’s just, again, the nursery. Like I said, it’s cool to have a distinctive, different look to the nursery next door, but it felt too much of a weird choice. Most of the film is just so dark, and Godric’s Hollow is not any better. It doesn’t… visually, you can barely see what’s going on. This is a place where you are, where you actually don’t want to see what’s going on because there’s probably blood and flies everywhere. It’s just weird. It’s just absolutely the most macabre moment for Harry and Hermione to get themselves into and it’s… I don’t know.
Kat: But isn’t that exactly what it’s supposed to be?
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: It may have been adapted well but I cannot possibly stand it. It completely creeps me out.
Michael: See, in that way I like the scene because there is all this – like you were saying, Eric – the blood and the flies and things, and what I like about that is… like that scene when Emma goes into the kitchen and you can’t see what she’s seeing but you can tell whatever she’s seeing is horrifying.
Alison: Yeah, and then she just screams Harry’s name.
Michael: Yeah, it hits her that something’s horribly wrong here. There’s a lot going on in the scene that’s left to the imagination.
Rosie: Yeah, the horror and the nastiness in this scene is done well, and is made to be as horrific as it sounds it should be. This is a woman that’s been eaten by a snake and then the snake is being her. That is graphic.
Alison: Ugh. I still can’t watch that transformation.
Eric: There’s almost no agency behind it. There’s no understanding in the film that it was Voldemort who did this [and] that he stationed her.
Alison: No, that’s a downfall.
Kat: But you know that that’s his snake.
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: We know. Those that aren’t following as closely might not.
Kat: No way! Because you see Nagini at the opening of the movie. That’s definitely… people know that that’s Nagini. If they don’t, then they’re not paying attention.
Michael: Yeah, no, the film works hard enough to make sure you know that Nagini is Voldemort’s snake.
Kat: Right.
Michael: But I could see that.
Rosie: This isn’t just a horror film. That moment is very horrific and that’s fine, but the whole of the Godric’s Hollow scene is missing something, and I think ISeeThestrals in the chat said that it’s missing the statue of the Potters…
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: … it’s missing the sign post outside the house, it’s missing the Ariana backstory… the Dumbledores used to live in Godric’s Hollow.
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: All of that information is not there, and so it’s just, “Here are two people walking in the snow and they get attacked by a snake.”
Caleb: You know what’s also missing? The snake doesn’t come out of her neck.
[Alison and Kristen laugh]
Kristen: That’s true.
Caleb: That’s a missed opportunity.
Michael: Yeah, she kind of just sheds away, so it’s a little bit different. I see we have a caller on the line.
Alison: Hi!
[Kat laughs]
Caller: I was just wondering, just talking about the Godric’s Hollow scene… do you think it would have been better if the film was rated a higher age, like 15 for the UK? I don’t know about American ratings, but just to add… because young adult films nowadays tend to be rated 12 just to get more of an audience, but do you think it would be better as a higher age?
Michael: Well, in America that presents a problem because if you push past PG-13 then you go to R. [laughs]
Alison and Kristen: Yeah.
Michael: And we can’t do that. You’ve eliminated your whole teen audience if you push to R. And I think the thing, though, too, is that PG-13 is a rating here in the states that has evolved to what it means…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: … and I think Harry Potter actually has a lot to do with that.
Kristen: Mhm.
Michael: Harry Potter and Hunger Games changed what PG-13 means.
Kristen: And the Marvel superhero.
Michael: And the Marvel universe.
Alison: Oh, yeah.
Alison and Kristen: Definitely.
Michael: There’s definitely a few movies that have evolved that rating since. So in a way… if Harry Potter were made now as a PG-13 film, I think it would be a different film.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: That said, I don’t think the Godric’s Hollow scene suffers because they couldn’t be more graphic. I think the choices that were made that doomed that scene were to not include a lot of what’s actually happening.
Alison: I would agree with that. I actually quite like that scene. I think it works pretty well. I definitely think that the Potter remembrance is missing. But the breaking into the little nursery? I think that’s so good because all of a sudden it’s this flash of bright, and you remember that there’s still life and lives going on around all this terrible stuff that’s happening to these main characters and that’s just…
Kat: It sets up a contrast.
Alison and Michael: Yeah.
Alison: I think that’s awesome.
Michael: I think YoRufusOnFire mentioned that in the chat, that it’s meant to… there’s an element of that; that it’s meant to be a mirror of when Harry is attacked by Voldemort as a child in the same location.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: But I guess the other, probably, big things were the ending of the film from the Malfoy Manor onwards business and being caught by the Snatchers, so maybe we can talk about that a little bit. And a big element of that is, of course, as he’s been mentioned before, Dobby!
Alison: No.
Michael: Yeah, let’s talk about Dobby.
Kat: Hmm, let’s not.
Michael: Well, we have to.
[Alison laughs]
Michael: Oh, but we must. So Dobby actually doesn’t show up… the first time he shows up is not in his proper scene in Hallows when he first shows up. He gets to come along with Kreacher to capture Mundungus Fletcher. As Heyman put it, that was because in the movies, we haven’t seen Dobby for a long time and he wanted to make sure that everybody remembered who he was before he gets so emotionally killed off.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: And they spend a good ten minutes on him. So specifically, does Dobby work for you all? Does his inclusion work? Does the death work? What are your feelings?
Kat: I think you all know my answer: Yes. And I expressed this in the chat earlier, is that part of it is that I am so connected to book Dobby that that’s the emotion that I’m pulling from when he passes and all of that. So it’s not necessarily that in the movie it’s stronger; it’s just that I’m pulling that relationship from the books for me. Although I do think his death is nice, and I like that Harry looks to Hermione to help him fix it because Hermione fixes everything…
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: … and he just hopes that that’s going to happen again and then he realizes that it’s not. I feel like that reaction also adds to Dobby’s death for me, just how Harry takes it. It’s not just so much the death itself.
Caleb: Yeah, I agree. I think that they could have tried to push it a lot more and it would have really flopped. And I like that they added a lot of simplicity to it. So I’m really down with it.
Kat: Mhm. Yeah. It’s another quiet moment for me even though there’s talking. It’s the silent break after Harry… Dobby is standing there, clutching his little chest and it’s kind of quiet as Harry runs over to him. It’s just another one of those great moments for me.
Alison: Well, and I like that Dobby is not the first person he thinks about; that the first thing he does is run to Hermione and say, “It’s okay. We’re all okay, we’re all okay,” and then he turns around.
Kat: Well, it’s funny, I thought about this: That scene on the beach after they Apparate is filmed exactly the same way as when they leave the Ministry. So it focuses on Harry…
Alison: Oh, yeah.
Kat: … and then Harry’s reaction, and then he looks over and sees Ron and Hermione and he runs over to them.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: It’s filmed identically. It’s identical.
Alison: Huh.
Rosie: When they get out of the Ministry, Harry immediately looks for the Horcrux as soon as he regains consciousness, and then looks for Hermione and Ron.
Kat: Mhm.
Rosie: Whereas this time, I don’t think he even goes for the sword or anything. He just literally goes straight to Hermione and Ron and makes sure that everyone’s all right and say they’re all fine.
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: So it shows a bit of growth there and a bit of the fact that they’ve… the Horcrux has been destroyed and it shows how all-encompassing [and] attention-grabbing of that particular Horcrux was. Whereas now, they’re back to being a united trio and they can work properly together as a unit. And then the emotional overhaul of Dobby’s death.
Kat: Mhm.
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: It’s also a logical point to split the two films to have that kind of climax at the end of that scene and then the emotional, gut-wrenching downfall from it. It leaves us in a good state to want to watch the next film even if it’s a bittersweet ending.
Michael: Mhm.
Alison: Yeah. And to not just end with his death but to add that little short scene at the end that they actually put at the beginning of the next one, too, that… you’re in that kind of low, and then it all of a sudden just shoots up again and that works well.
Michael: Mhm, and before… actually, I’ll say my piece on Dobby and then we’ll backtrack a little bit because there’s one more scene that I probably should have talked about before we talked about this, but I’ll be the counterpoint to Dobby. There were me and three other people who felt this way in the chat [laughs] and I know you’re all going to hate me but that’s fine because I stand up for my opinions on film. I’m not… I’ve never been crazy about Dobby. I like him a lot… I’ve liked him a lot more in this reread than any other time that I’ve read the books, and what the house-elves storyline contributes overall to Harry Potter. My frustration, I think, personally, in the film comes with the fact that for me the film is trying too hard to pull directly on my heartstrings and make me care about Dobby when I haven’t seen him since movie number two.
Alison and Rosie: Yeah.
Rosie: That was a finance issue, which is really annoying.
Michael: Yes! Yes, because as they said, “The house-elves were expensive to make.”
Eric: Yeah, that’s annoying. You’re right. You’re right.
Michael: Some people have gone so far as to compare Dobby to a Jar Jar Binks. I don’t think he’s that bad.
Kat: What?
Alison: No!
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: That’s a little extreme.
Alison: No!
Eric: Hey, look, although to that point…
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Don’t do this, Eric, don’t do this.
Kat: Yeah, don’t go there, buddy.
Eric: Look, look, look… this is safe. This is really safe, I promise.
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Eric: To that point, both of those characters for me represent a sort of innocence that is in the world.
Michael: Yes.
Alison: Oh, not… Jar Jar is just annoying.
Michael: Well, but… what Eric is saying…
Kat: No, that’s a valid point.
Eric: I honestly think that they make both of those worlds better because they represent a lightness that not everything is dark [and] not everybody’s dying everywhere. And it’s important to have some innocence and that’s what Dobby does for me is… you do really enjoy seeing how happy he is to see his friend. And I will agree, to a certain extent, that it may be a little too hard of the tugging, on the pulling of the heartstrings; I can see that point in this movie. But Dobby for me is just… he’s innocence washed bare and killed because he doesn’t… he no longer belongs in this world. This world is too corrupt for Dobby.
Michael: See? I think…
Rosie: The chat is not happy with this comparison.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: So Michael, then I have a question…
Eric: Regardless of how you feel about Jar Jar, I’m sorry, chat, I’m sorry.
Michael: And I think…
Kat: Michael, I have a question for you then.
Michael: What?
Kat: So if you don’t connect to Dobby because we haven’t seen him for a while, how can you connect to Tonks and Lupin?
Michael: In the movies I don’t. I’m not really sad when they die.
Kat: Oh, okay. Good.
Michael: … because I think that’s…
Eric: I mean…
Michael: I’m disappointed in the characterization, just like I am with Dobby. It’s kind of just wasted time, unfortunately.
Kat: Yeah.
Rosie: SwishandFlick27 says, “I would have loved to have seen Dobby taking care of Winky in the movies.” And I think that’s part of the issue as well.
Alison and Michael: Yeah.
Rosie: Dobby is quite a superficial character in the films because he’s not had all these plot lines that made us fall in love with him as a character. And so yeah, we needed Winky. We needed the Barty Crouch stuff.
Eric: It’s interesting that this is… we did, but you know what? This is the first film they split. We couldn’t have possibly had any of those things before because they didn’t take the time…
Kristen: Mhm.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: … to be able to give the films what they could have needed to be better adaptations. So I think it’s fitting that Dobby shows up here for the first time. I would have of course loved him in earlier films, but this is the first film where they finally took time to bring something like that back and so it’s interesting to see such a B- or C- or D-level plot in this film.
Rosie: SocksareImportant also points out that Dobby’s lines were given to Neville. So thanks to the lack of Dobby, we had more Neville, which is a good thing.
[Michael laughs]
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: Well, and again, my thing with Dobby really is just that… and as you were saying, Eric, that representation of innocence… for me, I think the movie covers that already. There’s so much innocence lost and it’s done so well just through Dan and Emma and Rupert and the callbacks to the original… there’s so many visual callbacks to Sorcerer’s Stone that are done very well that…
Eric: Yeah, maybe, but Dobby is like a child because he’s smaller…
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: … and Harry is holding him and he dies in Harry’s arms. It’s very evocative of childhood. I see innocence being lost, I see the teenagers are getting grittier, and I see less and less of the screen because it’s getting darker.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: But Dobby is actually the child role of the film more so than the trio. The trio have been going through this for years and years and years. But Dobby is the one who, very heroically, shows up but it’s almost… it’s comical. That’s the comedy that works with Dobby, like when he has that line about, “Maim or seriously injure.” He’s just having a ball. He’s absolutely having a blast.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: You miss a lot of what he’s doing, which is of course he’s so intimately familiar with the Malfoy Manor because he lived there and… what? Did somebody say wait?
Michael: Yeah, we have a guest caller.
Eric: Oh, we have a caller.
[Kristen laughs]
Kat: Hello.
Caller: I wasn’t even trying.
[Eric, Michael, and Caller laugh]
Eric: Did we call you? [laughs]
Caller: No, I think I called you. I was just curious that if I tried on my phone, it would ask me to buy Skype credit.
Michael: Well, tell everybody who you are.
Caller: I’m Felix Scamander.
Kat: Oh!
Alison: Hey.
Caller: Yeah. Hello.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Question for us?
Caller: What? No, I was just trying… well, yeah, I did have a couple of questions, but people already asked them…
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Caller: … so I’ll see you.
Michael: How do you feel about Dobby, Felix?
Kat: Yeah.
Caller: Sad.
[Everyone laughs]
Eric: Yeah, that’s the right…
Kat: Valid.
Eric: That’s exactly right.
Alison: There you go. [laughs]
Caleb: I will say that if anyone who is in Wales by chance, if you have a chance to go to this beach, it is a really lovely and remarkable place. On its own it’s a beautiful beach, but when you have this part of the movie with you, it’s one of the best places I’ve ever been.
Kat: I would completely agree with that.
Eric: I want to hear more about this beach. I want to go check out that YouTube video of the road trip…
Kat: You should. It’s beautiful, but…
Eric: I can’t believe I haven’t.
Kat: … it took us four hours to get there from Cardiff, I think.
Caleb: Yeah, something like that. And the great thing is it’s not very populated. At least when we were there, there weren’t a lot of people there. So we really weren’t rubbing shoulders with people trying to figure out… we took a lot of time to figure out where we thought Shell Cottage was, we made a makeshift Dobby grave…
Kat: Mhm.
[Eric laughs]
Kat: It was the middle of summer too, so yeah, it wasn’t very busy at all.
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: It was beautiful. We highly recommend it. Ten stars.
Caleb: How dare you laugh, Eric.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Eric: No, a makeshift Dobby grave… that seems like a fan thing to do.
Michael: I was going to say…
Kat: It was.
Michael: … I bet there would be a lot of Dobby graves.
Eric: It’s like running your cart into the wall at King’s Cross before they built that wall.
[Alison laughs]
Kat: Well, you know what was great? We were walking along and people were talking about how they filmed that scene here. So it’s not like it wasn’t public knowledge either, which was kind of nice.
Michael: But you were the only ones who brought a shovel and actually did the digging.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: No, we didn’t.
Rosie: And do you still have an entire jar of sand?
Kat: I did, I stole sand from that beach, which was super illegal.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: I did illegal things, but I still have sand from that beach.
Eric: Was it a preserve where you’re not supposed to steal sand?
Caleb: I think it’s just an international travel thing.
Eric and Kat: Yeah.
Kat: Agricultural product…
Eric: Oh yeah, you have to declare it because there could be parasites in that dirt.
[Kristen laughs]
Michael: Kat’s destroyed the United States of America!
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Yeah, I didn’t mean to.
Michael: Singlehandedly.
Eric: Yeah.
Rosie: Mine wasn’t international, so I’m fine.
[Kat, Kristen, and Michael laugh]
Kat: Yeah, I just gave her a rock. So it’s fine.
Michael: Aww… but yes, so that’s Dobby. He’s gone now, so…
Eric: Dobby Binks.
Michael: Dobby Binks. [laughs]
Alison: Oh my gosh! [laughs]
Caleb: How dare you.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Terrible.
Michael: The one thing I wanted to backtrack to before we wrapped up was… the other big scene that got a lot of discussion was the Silver Doe. [laughs] A lot of people were mentioning – of course, rest in peace, Sir Alan Rickman; we miss you very much – and a lot of people were saying, “Oh, it’s so sad because this is like the Alan Rickman scene, but he’s not actually here in this movie.” [laughs] So, it was kind of sad to realize that, [but] he does get his one scene at the beginning.
Eric: It would have ruined the mystery to show him on the other side of the tree.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: Yes, of course.
Kat: Yeah, for sure.
Alison: You get it in the next movie; it’s fine.
Rosie: The meaning behind it is still…
Michael: Well, a lot of people were talking about it in the chat – and I haven’t really seen this discussion before, but it was interesting. I think a lot of people were saying that it hit them as we were watching it that the Silver Doe in the movie context doesn’t really make any sense.
Kat: [laughs] No.
[Michael laughs]
Eric: It definitely doesn’t make sense.
Kat: It doesn’t happen until much later, right?
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: And I think you’re supposed to be left a little bit confused, to be honest, if you haven’t read the books.
Eric: It’s a helping hand.
Rosie: It’s such a small moment as well. It just kind of appears and then less than a minute later, it’s gone. So, it’s not even really made a big thing about [in the film], where it’s a massive thing in all of the book fandom. So for it to not really have an interesting mystery hook to it makes it even less…
Kat: But it’s only a big thing because of what we find out later.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: In this moment when you’re reading the book, not a big thing.
Alison: It’s just there.
Kat: The context is what makes it a big deal.
Rosie: The confusion is there in the book because we’ve got Harry’s thoughts: “What is this? Why am I following it? Who sent me this Patronus?”
Eric: Right.
Rosie: In the film we don’t even realize that it is a Patronus. It’s just this weird [light].
Eric: Yeah, that’s fair.
Michael: Well, yeah, and I think that’s where a lot of the confusion was coming for a lot of our listeners this time over. Because there was a lot of extensive discussion near the beginning of the film when Kingsley’s Patronus shows up and it’s not a lynx: it’s a ball of… [as Ron] “It’s a tiny ball of light.”
[Alison and Kat laugh]
Michael: And it kind of projects images of the Ministry being destroyed and being taken over. So it’s not really doing what a Patronus has ever been shown doing before or is supposed to do.
Kat: But that’s not a legit… I mean, it’s a Patronus but it’s not the same kind of Patronus.
Michael: No.
Kat: This is like a messaging Patronus, so we don’t know how those act.
Alison: Yeah. But we still know in the books they’re the animals they are. And then it’s weird because for the past few films, like after Prisoner, they stopped making Patronuses into animals. They were just these shiny things…
Michael: [as Ron] “Tiny balls of light.” [laughs]
Alison: [laughs] And then all of a sudden we get… Umbridge’s Patronus is a cat quite clearly in this movie…
Michael: Yeah.
Alison: … and then we get the doe. And so it’s like there’s no continuity, and it’s really annoying. [laughs]
Kat: I disagree because I’m pretty sure we don’t see many Patronuses between Order and now.
Eric: Well, Dumbledore’s Army had all… like they were animals.
Alison: Yeah. That’s true.
Kat: Right, but she’s saying that the continuity’s wrong, and I don’t think we actually see any Patronus in Half-Blood Prince, do we?
Kristen: Kingsley is the only one I remember, and that’s not an animal. But you were saying it’s a messaging one.
Kat: Right, it’s different. So I actually think personally for me in the movie that that works just fine. Because if you saw a talking lynx in the movie, you’re going to be like, “What the heck is that?”
[Alison laughs]
Kat: Nobody’s going to get it.
Eric: It’s a Patronus!
Rosie: We were supposed to get Arthur’s Patronus telling them that they were safe when they stayed in the house at Grimmauld Place. I think we were supposed to have… does Lupin have a Patronus that we get a message from at some point as well?
Michael: No.
Kristen: No…
Eric: “Sorry, I can’t be here. I got cut from the movie.”
[Eric, Kristen and Michael laugh]
Michael: Yeah, so that brought up just a lot of questioning about: does the doe still work? And I think we’ll get to that more in Part 2. I’d say the doe only works because Alan sells the performance, not so much because of the plot device. Because, of course, eliminating the explanation that Harry’s stag Patronus is representative of James kind of confuses that point, unfortunately.
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: Again, it’s the whole Marauders thing being left out.
Michael: Being left out again, yeah. The other remarkable thing about that particular scene is of course the follow-up where Ron and Harry destroy the Horcrux. [laughs] And as a lot of people pointed out and as I said in the chat, most passionate kiss in the entire film series and it’s not even real.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Alison: Oh, man.
Michael: My goodness, sucking face is what’s going on there, but there’s something…
Kat: It makes you wonder what Ron thinks about if that’s what he pictures…
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: Right? Yeah.
Kat: Those two for real.
Rosie: The actual Romione kiss in the last movie is quite good.
Alison: It’s good. That’s a good one.
Michael: The water splash kiss?
[Kristen laughs]
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: [laughs] Yeah.
Rosie: With the giggle.
Michael: [laughs] The giggles sell it, yeah.
Kat: Mhm. Let’s be real.
Michael: But yeah, the first big… since I suppose Chamber of Secrets, our first proper big Horcrux destruction scene. Nice big explosion, great adaptation of the scene.
Eric: I just love how when they open the locket, it just… [imitates the sound of an explosion]
Michael: Yes.
Alison: Yeah, it’s like an explosion!
Eric: All of a sudden it’s 150 times bigger than you thought.
Rosie: The amount of power that that locket has and that we’ve seen infecting their minds throughout the beginning of the movie, it needed to have a massive power explosion when it opened.
Eric: Yeah.
Kat: Right.
Eric: They are immediately in over their heads. Immediately you’re just like, “Woah! What are they going to do?”
Michael: That’s one of my favorite pieces of the score from Desplat, the locket scene…
Alison: Yeah, that one’s good.
Michael: … because that’s a fantastic one. It’s weirdly romantic, but there’s this weird undertone to it; it’s great. Very well acted on everybody’s part as… I think some of us noted during the chat that Rupert had to be taken away from the set around that point…
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: … because he was giggling too much watching Dan and Emma kiss.
[Kristen laughs]
Michael: So yes, like little children all over that set.
[Rosie laughs]
Michael: And then fast-forwarding and back to the end as we talked about, Dobby passes. We get a little bit of Malfoy; he’s just pretty much there to be like, “Yeah, that’s Harry, but I’m not really going to say it.” And then Helena Bonham Carter steals the scene.
Alison: Oh!
Michael: Yes.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: A lot of great returning actors. This was the movie where everybody was like: “Are they going to come back?” And pretty much everybody did. That was asked, too. The other stand-out return was, of course, Imelda Staunton as Umbridge getting her last farewell. But then of course, then the end happens and the split, and we’ve talked about it a little bit. Now, as Eric mentioned at the beginning of our discussion, the split was… there were a few people for and against it on the production team; Heyman was actually very much against it at first. What was interesting was Kloves suggested that it should be three parts.
Alison Hmm.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: That is incorrect.
Eric: Of course he did, of course he did. Because Kloves wanted an entire movie to the Harry and Hermione kissing scene.
Kat: Oh, come on.
[Alison, Kristen, Michael, and Rosie laugh]
Alison: Two hours of just that.
Eric: Really a lost fairy tale, two hours of that.
[Kristen laughs]
Kat: Honestly, the fans… if they had said they were going to make seven movies out of this movie, nobody would have said no to it. Let’s be real, it might not have been the best movies ever, but nobody would have said no to more Harry Potter. Which is why so many people are campaigning for a television series or a comic or…
Alison: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, that’s it. I would have…
Rosie: It doesn’t even have to be like a series. They could easily do little TV specials where they do the Marauder’s story and they do Dumbledore’s story, and they could just write little focused plots with all the subplots that they cut out, and it would be amazing just to have these little bits that flesh out.
Kat: They should really do it like Sherlock…
Alison: Ooh!
Kristen: Yes.
Kat: … where it’s like hour-and-a-half episodes.
Alison: Yeah.
Caleb: Or what would have been a really cool set-up is how The X-Files does it where they have a series, and then they have a break and there’s a movie… well, we wouldn’t have wanted the break, but I really like how The X-Files does that serialized, like the series and then a movie and then another brief series, and then another movie is expected after that. That would have been nice.
Eric: Yeah.
Kat: That’s true. That would have been great.
Michael: Are you guys happy…
Eric: That’s tomorrow, by the way.
Michael: Oh, The X-Files coming back?
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Michael: Are you guys happy with where the split is in the movie?
Alison, Kat, and Rosie: Yeah.
Alison: I don’t know where else they would have done it.
Eric: Yeah, I think…
Rosie: There’s so much plot before it and so much plot after it that it is the logical place.
Michael: Yeah, there was discussion… late into production, there was still a lot of talk about where the split should be. And of course the films were being done simultaneously, so they had time as they were filming to decide on that split. Probably the second decision that they had was to split it when they arrived at Malfoy Manor and Bellatrix said, “Get Draco.” And that would have been the…
Alison: Nah, that wouldn’t have worked.
Eric: I hadn’t known that before, but that would have been…
Michael: I don’t think that would have worked.
Kat: Yeah.
Alison: No.
Rosie: The catharsis of Dobby’s death after the fight and then to have the cliffhanger of Voldemort’s got the Elder Wand, we’ve got serious peril that happens with that twist that just then being captured isn’t quite enough. It’s kind of like, “Oh, they’ve been captured, but it’s Harry. They’ll get out of it.”
Kat: Right.
Rosie: Whereas, “Oh, this guy has actually died and now the evil guy has got the ultimate weapon. What is going to go wrong now?”
Michael: Yeah.
Rosie: There’s a very different level of drama.
Kat: Well, because before it was… up until this point Harry has been chased, and now Harry is the one doing the chasing.
Alison: Yeah.
Kat: This is where it splits into those two.
Alison: You’ve got the focus shifting from, “We’re looking for Horcruxes” to, “Are we looking for Hallows or are we looking for Horcruxes?” That kind of changes there.
Michael: Which is…
Kat: Although not really in the movie, because the Hallows…
Alison: Well, yeah. [laughs]
Kat: Who gives a crap, right? [laughs]
Michael: Because the Hallows, who cares? They’re just awesome and no consequence can possibly come from them.
Alison: They just show up. [laughs]
Kat: Right. Exactly.
Alison: And you can snap the Elder Wand.
Michael: The interesting thing that comes from that split – which I realized as we were prepping for the show – is I was like, “Shouldn’t we read another chapter before we do this?” Because Voldemort doesn’t get the wand until the end of the next chapter.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: So they move that around a bit. But I was like, “Oh, no, that makes sense,” because mostly this chapter is Ollivander’s yada-yada-ing about wands. So that’s kind of the crux of the chapter. But I actually see where the split works because of the Dobby thing, which again as I’ve said before, doesn’t work for me personally. And also the beginning of Part 2 has always still felt like… that first part where they’re going after the Horcrux in Gringotts has always felt like a leftover of Part 1 to me. I’m like, “Oh, we’re still in Part 1 territory; let’s go get another Horcrux. And it’s so funny. Oh, goblins just died! That’s funny.” [laughs] That part feels bizarrely, tonally out of the rest of the movie and almost, to me, would have worked in Part 1 with all of the Polyjuice Potion and the Horcrux hunting. It would have been too long of a movie.
Eric: Yeah, and I think the movie would have been about something different. It would have been about something different then.
Alison: Yeah. And that also is the thing that really is the catalyst to everything that happens in that movie, so I don’t know if they could have put it in Part 1 at the end. Because everything starts happening after that. That’s where all the dominoes start going down after that.
Michael: I guess it would have been… what I would have liked about that was then the whole second movie could have just completely have been the Battle of Hogwarts. Because it doesn’t – and we’ll get more on that later – but that doesn’t get its fair share, to me.
Eric: I think they still would have cut out Lupin and Tonks.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Michael: So ends Deathly Hallows – Part 1. Voldemort has the wand, he shoots it into the air, and that’s the last image we’re left with.
Rosie: And we’ve opened the Dumbledore casket!
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: The Lego grave, as people are saying.
Alison: Jenga blocks.
Kat: Aww.
Eric: IKEA… I like the IKEA thing.
[Alison laughs]
Michael: So, with that we go into final thoughts on Hallows – Part 1.
Eric: That was a good movie!
Kat: I’m sad that my favorite movie is behind us now.
Alison and Michael: Aw.
Rosie: I really forgot how much I love this film.
Alison: Yeah.
Rosie: I’ve not watched the Deathly Hallows films for a long time because I’m still too sad.
[Alison laughs]
Michael: Well, they’re not the ones that you pop in for a nice afternoon, right?
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Kat: Right.
Michael: Not exactly.
Rosie: Watching it again is making me remember how much this series means to me, and I’m going to be really sad when we get to the last one!
Kat: Which is soon. We’re almost there. I kind of want to watch it right now, but we’ll wait.
Michael: Naughty.
Caleb: Yeah, I have similar feelings as Rosie. I haven’t watched this or the final one in a long time. So watching them now is like we’re also winding down on the chapters of Deathly Hallows, the book. It’s making me relive this experience of both of those things ending the first time around. Which is a lot to think about.
Kristen: This one, I have to say, I rewatched this one the most, but Part 2 I barely ever… I probably have seen it twice because I don’t want it to end and it makes me too sad.
[Michael laughs]
Kristen: But this one I’ve seen fifteen times. I can rewatch this one over and over again.
Michael: I like Part 1. Part 1 is actually number three on my list, behind Prisoner and Half-Blood. I’ll say again that my feelings on Part 1 are that it’s number three on my list. Out of all the Potter films, I think it’s the best mystery as far as a set-up. It does a really thoughtful set-up. I’ve said before that it actually feels like a traditional, almost masterpiece BBC mystery to me.
[Rosie laughs]
Michael: It has a lot of those elements, which is why I’m so disappointed by Part 2 because Part 2, in many ways to me, doesn’t deliver on the promise of the set-up that it does so good on the mystery. But yeah, it’s a very well done film. I think this is the film where Yates finally found his niche and figured out what he wanted to do with these movies.
Alison: Yeah, I…
Kat: Four and a half hours to do so.
Michael: Yup. He had plenty of time.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Alison: Yeah. Sometimes I think I forget how much I enjoy these last two. I feel like they hit a peak in a lot of the things they were doing in these movies and they just… they’re beautifully done, I love the music. It’s a nice ending for everything, especially coming off [Movie] 6, which I don’t like. So yeah, it’s a beautiful movie, and I really appreciate it.
Michael: Deathly Hallows – Part 1, yay!
Kristen: Woo-hoo!
[Alison, Eric, and Michael laugh]
Eric: Yay!
Michael: [laughs] It’s a good movie!
[Alison laughs]
Kristen: Very good. Thank you to all our guests, which are you guys, the callers, and then the chat for chatting with us all about Part 1.
Eric: You guys were awesome.
Kristen: It was so fun.
Alison: Yeah.
Michael: Sharing your thoughts and putting up with our power outages from Voldemort.
Kat: I love live shows.
[Kristen and Michael laugh]
Caleb: And now as we move forward to our regular chapter discussions, if you would like to be on the show as a guest, there are still spots available as we round out the final Deathly Hallows chapters. Just head over to the “Be on the Show” page at alohomora.mugglenet.com. As long as you have a set of Apple or similar headphones, you’re all set. No fancy equipment is needed.
Kat: And you can keep in touch with us in the meantime on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, facebook.com/openthedumbledore; we’re on Tumblr at mnalohomorapodcast.tumblr.com; our Instagram is @alohomoramn; our website, of course, is alohomora.mugglenet.com; and don’t forget to download your free ringtone while you’re over there or send us an owl over on audioBoom. Just keep it under sixty seconds and you might hear yourself on the show.
Rosie: And of course we’ve got our fantastic store where you can find sweatshirts, long sleeve tees, tote bags, flip-flops, so much more. And also our ringtones are free and available on our website. You guys were all dancing to our little dance party theme at the beginning. That will be happening again soon, so stick around for the end, but find our ringtones, which is that theme music there for free on our website.
Michael: We sell stuff!
[Alison, Kat, and Michael laugh]
Eric: So catchy.
[Alison and Michael laugh]
Caleb: Also make sure to check out our smartphone app. It is free to download; just search “Podcast Source” in your phone’s app store. Well, that’s going to do it for this weekend’s live episode. Thanks again everyone for joining us. I’m Caleb Graves.
Michael: I’m Michael Harle.
Alison: I’m Alison Siggard.
Eric: I’m Eric Scull.
Rosie: I’m Rosie Morris.
Kristen: I’m Kristen Keys.
Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 174 of Alohomora!
[Show music begins]
Michael: Open the [Voldemort scream] Dumbledore.
[Show music continues]
Alison: Okay!
Kat: Everyone hear us? Sorry about that!
Alison: Live show! [laughs]
Kat: Technical difficulties, you know. Sometimes that stuff happens.
Michael: [laughs] DoraNympha said in the chat that Voldemort crashed into the electrical towers. [laughs] That’s what…
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: Oh, that’s definitely what it was.
Michael: … took down the towers.
[Eric imitates Voldemort yelling]
Michael: Whoopsie daisy!
[Everyone laughs]
