Transcript – Episode 160
[Show music begins]
Michael Harle: This is Episode 160 of Alohomora! for October 17, 2015.
[Show music continues]
Michael: Welcome back, listeners, to another episode of Alohomora!, MuggleNet.com’s global reread of the Harry Potter series. I’m Michael Harle.
Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.
Caleb Graves: And I’m Caleb Graves. And we are really happy to have our special guest host today: Leah. Hey Leah, thanks for joining us. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Leah Juster: Hello. First, can I do a little shout-out?
Caleb: Absolutely, of course.
Kat: Sure.
Michael: Absolutely not. [laughs]
Leah: Okay, so I was at NerdCon Stories this past weekend in Minneapolis…
Michael: Oh!
Leah: … and on Saturday was the Harry Potter Alliance’s 10th birthday, and I wore my “Minerva is my homegirl” T-shirt…
Caleb: Yes!
[Leah laughs]
Caleb: Represent!
Leah: And a girl told me that morning, she was like, “Oh, hey! I like your shirt. Do you listen to Alohomora!?” And I said, “Heck yeah, I’m going to be the guest host this week!” So shout-out to the random girl I met at NerdCon.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: Wow! That’s a great story!
Caleb: I really love that that shirt connects people in such a seamless way.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Caleb: That’s pretty awesome.
Leah: Yeah. It was pretty great.
Michael: Are you up in Minnesota, Leah?
Leah: Yes.
Michael: Oh, I’m from Minnesota!
Leah: Are you really?
Michael: Yeah, I lived there until I was four and everybody always says, “Oh, you can’t possibly remember.” But I always tell them you never forget the winters.
Leah: Oh, no.
[Michael laughs]
Leah: You can’t forget the winters here.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: It’s impossible to forget them. So what house are you in, Leah?
Leah: I am a Hufflepuff. I always kind of thought that I would be a Ravenclaw, but Pottermore put me in Hufflepuff, and I was a little shocked and – I won’t lie – I was a little bit disappointed at first. But then I read that welcome letter from Pottermore and I thought, nah, this is the place for me. So I am totally fine being a badger. I love it.
Michael: Yeah, that was the thing that turned all the Hufflepuffs onto the house.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: It was that welcome letter. [laughs]
Leah: Yes.
Michael: We didn’t have much before that, anyways.
Leah: No, no. But that welcome letter is pretty awesome.
Michael: It is very generous, yes.
Kat: And how sad that that’s gone now.
Leah: Yeah!
Michael: I know!
Kat: Ugh! Terrible.
Michael: Pottermore! Yes, I have my Pottermore tab to help us through on Alohomora! all the time, but it hasn’t been doing me much good on the last few shows because I don’t know how to get what I’m looking for anymore. And half the time I can’t find some of the information.
Kat: Yeah, we could spend hours talking about the crap that is Pottermore.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: We should have done an episode about how angry we were at Pottermore. But we’ll save that for another… well, we’ve been sprinkling it through. It’ll come up again.
Kat: We have. It’s true.
Michael: [laughs] But for today, listeners, we’re actually focusing on Chapter 10 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, and that one is “Kreacher’s Tale.” So make sure to read that chapter before listening to the episode to get the most out of our discussion today.
Caleb: But before we get into that chapter, we’re going to take a look at just a couple of your comments from our discussion last week, which was on Chapter 9 of Deathly Hallows. As always, there were numerous, wonderful comments – I think almost 200 comments again this week – so just a couple. There was a really big discussion on the magic behind Dumbledust – I wrote that wrong in the doc, “Dumbledest,” but Dumbledust.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: Everyone has their own little clever nickname, and I saw a couple going back and forth. But this comment comes from DoraNympha and it says,
“The magic had several parts: first the whisper of Snape’s name, then Dusty showed up (we should call him Ol’ Dusty like a bootlegger in the 1920s) advancing towards the intruder and then the Tongue-Tying Jinx. Because they said they were not Snape and that they didn’t kill Dumbledore, the charms worked the way we saw them, but if it HAD been Snape, they would probably have been different. ‘Severus Snape?’ The magic would know he’s Snape the moment he opens his mouth, maybe even without it. Dustledore…”
Another great nickname.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: [continues]
“… wouldn’t have stopped and vanished because Snape wouldn’t have been able to say he hadn’t killed Dumbledore; the Tongue-Tying Jinx wouldn’t have let up so easily, if at all, and Dusty would probably do something to Snape, like choke him. The Tongue-Tying spell was already pretty suffocating, I imagine if Dustledore got to an intruder before they could claim they are not Snape, then the intruder would have to leave the premises in order to stop the jinx and breathe again. However, even IF Moody’s protective enchantments were set up to be more than just spooky magical pop-up screamers for Snape, Snape would most probably be able to defeat them anyway. Do we really think he doesn’t know the counter-curse for a Tongue-Tie Jinx?”
Michael: Oof! That was a lot.
Caleb: Yeah, so there were a lot of great comments trying to dig into the magic, which I know was brought up last week. But some pretty good thoughts here, and especially if Snape would have been able to handle them if he did run into them.
Michael: Well, he does run into whatever we’d like to call it… I like Dustledore, that’s pretty funny.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: He does in “The Prince’s Tale.” Harry actually sees him run into the specter of Dumbledore…
Caleb: Mhm.
Michael: … and he just kind of brushes it aside. And the thing that comes up with Snape as far as that goes, I always thought, was that Snape has no guilt over killing Dumbledore because he was assigned to do it.
Caleb: Sure.
Michael: And Dumbledore asked him to do it. So the curse with this Dustledore seems to be that… it’s implying that he murdered Dumbledore, which he knows he didn’t do.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: So it doesn’t have an effect on him.
Kat: And do we know exactly what this was meant to do? Is it only meant to keep him out of the house, or is it meant to keep him from passing on the location of Grimmauld Place? Because I think that’s a distinction that needs to be made, because obviously it didn’t keep him out of the house. This doesn’t seem like the type of charm or jinx that would keep him out of the house.
Caleb: Yeah, didn’t it seem like something that would be more prone to stopping him from sharing the information? But then again, he could’ve easily just done that outside or anywhere – share the location of the place.
Kat: Right.
Caleb: Which is why I always did not understand the magic in the first place.
Michael: Was the Tongue-Tying Jinx supposed to be a permanent way to make sure he didn’t share the information? Because I didn’t think the Tongue-Tying Jinx worked that way. I thought it was just to temporarily render him speechless just to shock him.
Caleb: Yeah, I think that’s fair. But I think there’s something to be said about the juxtaposition of going into a secret place that requires you to divulge the information from someone, and that the charm that they used was to tie up your tongue.
Michael: Mmm. That’s true.
Kat: Right. Because if you take Neville at the Ministry in Book 5 as proof of this, he wouldn’t have been able to do the counter-curse if his tongue was stuck like that. Because even if he was trying nonverbal… maybe, I don’t know… because Neville can’t do any magic when his face is all jacked up.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: Oh yeah, because he can’t pronounce things correctly.
Kat: Right, exactly.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: But maybe nonverbal would work, I don’t know.
Michael: Yeah, I don’t know about that. Well, yeah, because the issue with that was that Neville wasn’t proficient in nonverbal, so he wouldn’t know. Yeah, I always got the idea that the Dustledore was meant to do something more, because I always thought… and the characters just supposed that it’s supposed to just scare Snape. And I knew that wasn’t going to work before it’s shown in “The Prince’s Tale” where he really does just brush it aside and he doesn’t care. And it seems below Moody to just set up something that’s like “Ooh, spooky” kind of thing.
Kat: It’s kind of lame.
Michael: Yeah, it is. [laughs]
Kat: Right? Because especially, like you said, for someone like Moody.
Michael: Yeah. I mean, it was… I got that it was a little unnerving the way they showed it in the movie. It was kind of creepy, but not really run-out-the-door scary in terms of what wizards see on a daily basis.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Kat: And especially not for Snape.
Leah: Right. His classrooms and office and everything, they’re in the dungeons and they’ve got the Bloody Baron and everything, too. It’s not like a little ghost that’s not even a ghost would scare Snape.
Michael: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, it seems weird that it would just be there just to scare him, because you would think Moody would know that wouldn’t work.
Caleb: Honestly, I just don’t think this was well thought-out with the writing.
[Kat and Michael laugh]
Caleb: I mean, granted, I think that a lot of our commenters and listeners have a lot of great thoughts. But I don’t know, I don’t have a good explanation for it.
Michael: I do like the idea that the Tongue-Tying Jinx is related to the idea that it would stop you from revealing the location. But I wonder if that’s something that can work in direct contact and oppose the issue of the Fidelius Charm being broken, if it can tie that secret back up in one individual or not. I’m interested in how those two charms and spells work against each other or with each other.
Kat: Does he ever give up the location of Grimmauld Place? Because we know later on, once Yaxley gets in with the trio when they Apparate back, and he brings other people in that way…
Michael: Was it Snape who gave it away? Because the thing is, the Death Eaters start watching them before Yaxley grabs their leg at the Ministry.
Caleb: But that’s because of the Trace, right? Or that’s what I always assumed. Though, like they’re saying, he’s saying Voldemort’s name while they’re in Grimmauld Place… around these chapters.
Kat: Oh, right. Yes.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Caleb: So they know that he’s in the vicinity, but they can’t get to him because of the Fidelius Charm.
Michael: Okay.
Caleb: But as far as the original question, no, I don’t think Snape ever gives it up.
Kat: Right, because when Bellatrix and Narcissa show up, how do they find out where it is?
Michael: When they show up… when do they show up?
Kat: Well, they talk to…
Michael: Kreacher goes to the…
Kat: No, Kreacher leaves the house, that’s right. Never mind, okay.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Nope, never mind. So, yeah. Hmm… he never did give it up, I guess, it seems.
Michael: That’s funny because since… oh, no. Well, I was just thinking in terms of Grimmauld Place belonging to the Black family in general. Even though it was under the Fidelius Charm, would it be possible that Bellatrix at some point knew where Grimmauld Place was?
Kat: Well, that’s what I was trying to think of before when I was thinking about them talking to Kreacher…
Michael: Uh-huh.
Kat: But then I remembered he left the house. So it would seem plausible that Bellatrix would know…
Michael: Yeah, where the family home is.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Kat: Yeah.
Leah: Like a Black family extended family Christmas celebration or something?
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: So there would have to be some way that… I mean, we’re kind of getting away from the question, but the Fidelius Charm would have to somehow work… the magic would have to work on that aspect. Because that would always be the case with the Fidelius Charm if you pick some location that people you don’t want to know knows the place, right?
Michael: Yeah, already knew it, yeah.
Caleb: So maybe she forgets that she knows or somehow her mind doesn’t consider, “Oh, that might be the headquarters of the Order, this place where my family lived,” et cetera… I feel like there’s got to be some way the magic works there.
Michael: Yeah. But as far as Dustledore… yeah, I always just thought he was kind of a shock tactic. But seeing as the trio gets past him so easily and Lupin knows exactly what to do when he comes in without even getting his tongue tied…
Kat: Right.
Caleb: Maybe because he experienced it before, though.
Michael: Yeah, but you would think if Lupin knew, Snape probably would. Snape’s not exactly stupid.
Caleb: Yeah. That’s true. All right, so a good deal of the comments also discussed the Trace itself and how that magic works. And one possible thought came from Short Fingers But Lovely and it says,
“I think the boy Tom Riddle must have always hated the Trace because it hindered him from showing off his tricks and to follow his ambitions in the summer holidays…”
This of course the original Trace of using underage magic.
“So he would have thought a fair lot about it, and from him thinking about it, it must have been only a small step to imagining what else could be done with this mechanism… some Death Eater probably immediately invaded the office in which the Trace is being observed and gave orders about extending the Tracing Spell to saying the word ‘Voldemort’… It must have been pretty difficult to transform the [Trace] in that way because it is focused on magical activity and not on soundwaves (btw, what would have happened if a [M]uggle in a French lesson accidently … said [‘]fleeing from death[‘] in French? :)) …”
Which, I guess – someone correct me – I guess that’s what Voldemort means in French, I couldn’t remember.
Michael: That’s essentially it, yeah.
Caleb: Yeah.
“But maybe they also transformed the name Voldemort in a sort of spell without any effects so that the Ministry could trace it more easily, because they can already tell what kind of spells minors use, so that would make it easier for them to also detect when adults use it as a spell.”
So I really like this comment because it gave us some background – possible background – on why Voldemort would’ve been able to consider the Trace because of how, like this comment says, [he] would have detested it as a youth.
Kat: I think that’s a totally plausible theory. I like that actually. I’d never thought of it that way, kind of Rage Against the Machine almost in a way.
Caleb: Yup.
Michael: I always just thought he was so… it’s very clever. And I always found the Trace thing interesting in that the books really work for about six books to teach us that everybody should be saying Voldemort’s name. And then suddenly it’s like, “No, don’t do that. That’s very bad.”
Caleb: Yeah.
[Kat laughs]
Michael: And especially considering the iconic line of “fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself,” it’s very much that Voldemort was aware of that ever since he made the name, and it’s made pretty clear that he made the name. He clarifies that in Book 2 that he made the name not only to distance himself from his father, but in his mind, strike fear in others. So I always just saw that as a logical extension for him of… his name finally is wielding the power that he’s always wanted it to.
Kat: Totally off topic – well, not totally – but do you think Voldemort, Tom Riddle, I guess, knew French? And knew what he was naming himself? Or did he really just jumble up his name and come up with something that said, “I am Voldemort?”
Michael: [laughs] See, that brings up the same issue of do wizards actually know Latin?
Kat: Hmm. Right.
Michael: It is the same thing. Do you name your child Remus Lupin and not expect him to become a werewolf?
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: That is hard, because it is weird to think that the characters acknowledge that level of forethought in naming things. I guess Rowling tried to explain that on Pottermore, when she brought up the whole thing that parents sometimes go to Seers when their babies are about to be born, because then they give them a name based on what the Seer tells them.
Kat: That is right. Forgot about that.
Michael: But that is also rare. A lot of parents don’t do that anymore, and I can’t imagine Lupin’s parents or Voldemort doing something like that.
Kat: Well, I guess that is why we get names like Ronald and Harry.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: And not things like Bathilda and Albus.
Michael: That is true. Yeah, I’m not sure how Voldemort… I mean, Voldemort would be that smart, I suppose, to be like, [as Voldemort] “Not only is this a great acronym, it actually means something in French! The French will fear me!”
Kat: He is pretty smart. There is no reason he couldn’t have spent hours in the library looking up stuff. I don’t know, do they have French books at Hogwarts?
Caleb: I would imagine they would have to.
Kat: I think so, yeah.
Michael: But I like the idea. That is a great idea from Short Fingers but Lovely, that Tom Riddle was taking his vengeance on the Trace. That would have been interesting.
Kat: That fits his character. Right?
Michael: Yeah. That would have been interesting to see his reaction to something like the Trace, once he learned about it. He probably would have hated something like that.
Caleb: All right, and the last comment comes from ThatTimeRemusWaddiwasiedVoldy. [laughs] Wonderful name.
Michael: I remember that time! It is not in the book, but it is great.
Caleb: And this is just briefly on the scene where Hermione gets catcalled and harassed on the street, and how it continues. And the comment says,
“What I liked even more was that later on they notice the workmen have moved on to harassing some other woman. That is even more real to me. It doesn’t matter the woman because ALL women experience this. It really shows how it wasn’t anything special about Hermione; she was just a girl in a dress who happened to be walking by. I like to think that young boys all over the world have read this bit and gotten just a little nudge towards the mindset “This isn’t cool; I won’t behave this way.”
Kat: Let’s hope so.
Leah: Yeah.
Caleb: Just a nice though to end on. There was quite a bit of discussion coming off of last week on this, about how this moment when Hermione faces this brings such a big element of reality out of this secluded magical world. I thought this comment really pushed it, even a little more so.
Michael: Yeah, no, that is something. Because we’ve talked about that a little bit that… there was a big discussion about that a few weeks ago, when we were talking about the wizarding birthday presents and the idea that, with your question, Caleb, about do witches also get watches. And a lot of people just happily assumed that they do, because we don’t get a lot of suggestions of gender bias in the wizarding world. The wizarding world doesn’t overtly strike a lot of readers as being patriarchal. I think, especially, a lot of that comes from… I mean, we do see a lot of female characters in powerful positions, but of course, when we got the revelations that there were plenty of female Ministers for Magic, and female headmasters of Hogwarts, people feel that there is an implication that there is equal opportunity for women in the wizarding world. And maybe that is why this scene is an “oh, wow!” Rowling doesn’t… this is one of those moments that I don’t think you would see in a typical book for juvenile readers like this. It is Rowling really thinking about how the real world works, and really going the extra mile to distance the wizarding world from the real world. I don’t think most writers would take into account. And it is just one of those little moments, but I was glad to see it struck as many people as it struck me when I first read it.
Caleb: Yeah, definitely. Well, those are just a few of the great comments we had from last week’s episode. Definitely head over to our main site where the discussion can continue.
Kat: And so now, we’ll jump into our responses from last week’s Podcast Question of the Week. Just to remind you, our fill-in host Nicole, who’s one of our Creative Team Managers over on MuggleNet, posed last week’s question and it was,
“Chapter 9 is titled ‘A Place to Hide’ and the trio opts for 12 Grimmauld Place. What other hiding places might they have chosen that would have, possibly, better helped them on their quest to destroy Horcruxes? Or, at least, would have been more comfortable on their quest?”
So, as usual, lots of varying opinions; some things I’d never thought about before and some that we probably have. So here’s one from that lovely username again, ThatTimeRemusWaddiwasiedVoldy, which, by the way waddiwasied is a really fun word to say.
[Leah and Michael laughs]
Kat: I particularly enjoy it. So the comment says,
“They could have taken a page out of Neville’s book and used the Room of Requirement. It would have a good place to keep up on what was going on, plus it would have been as comfortable as they wanted it to be. However, sneaking in and out of Hogwarts and being right under the Carrows[‘] noses would have been pretty risky. Plus, would Arthur’s [P]atronus and Lupin have been able to reach them there? I don’t think it would have been a good long[-]term hideout but better than just roaming the countryside in a tent.”
Michael: Hmm.
Caleb: So definitely think the Patronus would have been able to make it because we see Patronus… at least on Hogwarts’ ground. So you could… I would wager that it could make it in.
Kat: And Dumbledore sends one, I think, from his office at some point, I vaguely remember. Sends one to Hagrid or something.
Caleb: Yup. That’s…
Michael: Mhm.
Caleb: … definitely true.
Kat: Right. Okay, I thought so.
Caleb: That was a small question this. Could this is… This is a good idea and it answered, kind of, the issue I was going to raise about it. It answered because just being right under the Carrow’s noses and seems like, maybe, they would have been found out. Because we obviously know, in the fifth book, the Room of Requirement gets found out when it’s used for a DA meeting. So it’s not fail proof.
Kat: And it’s not really a secret anymore, is it?
Michael: Well… and yeah, because that… it would work for looking for the Horcruxes that are in Hogwarts but, like you said and like the commenter said, leaving would not be wise. So…
Kat: Well, and at this time, they don’t even think there is one at Hogwarts.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Well, Harry thinks maybe but Hermione absolutely thinks, “No way. Not at all.”
Michael: Yeah.
Leah: And then there is that Caterwailing Charm in Hogsmeade, too, that would make it hard to even get close to the castle because that’s what happens when they get to that point, isn’t it?
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: Yup.
Caleb: They probably would have tried it out and realized that they could not even break Hogsmeade and have to run away.
Kat: It’s funny though that the next two comments that we have, actually, are keeping the trio pretty close to Hogwarts. And there were, actually, a lot of people that commented, “Why didn’t they just leave the country?” And I don’t… I feel like that’s what I would have done; just left the country.
Michael: Hmm.
Kat: Or, at least, gone much further away than they do.
Michael: Yeah because, as we know, the war doesn’t reach out of the UK.
Kat: Right.
Caleb: Yeah. Hmm. Maybe they wanted to stay… I don’t know. We… like Apparating that far away, we haven’t really seen many instances of that to know what difficulty it would be. Hermione’s obviously a very gifted witch but would she have been able to successfully do it? A lot of times and in going back and forth, I don’t know.
Michael: Yeah. That is implied to be dangerous.
Caleb: Right.
Michael: I think it’s explained, if not in the books, on Pottermore. They’re really not supposed to do that. You can but it’s unwise. And I suppose, too, taking…
Caleb: Yeah.
Michael: … Harry, who legally can’t yet, and Ron, who’s not always the best at it, could be dangerous.
Leah: And they don’t have a lot to go on right now in terms of what they’re looking for. So I guess, to kind of stick somewhere in the vicinity of where things might be, that could help them on the hunt for Horcruxes. You know, you wouldn’t want to go too far and then not…
Michael: Hmm.
Leah: … be close enough to actually get to the item once they know. Because, once they find out what they are, they try to act pretty fast on getting them.
Michael: Yeah.
Leah: And if they’re further away, that could be trickier.
Kat: Well, speaking of that actually, our comment here from RoseLumos kind of addresses that same issue. It says,
“I think it would have [been] interesting if Harry [had] followed in Sirius’s footsteps and hid in the cave outside of Hogsmeade. We know it is a safe place since Sirius camped out in it for a few months while being one of the most hunted wizards in Britain and was safe. As far as we know, the only people alive who know [its] specific location is Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ha[g]rid (he hides there after being fired in OotP). Not only is it out of the way, but it [also] appears to be naturally camouflaged into the hills. Also, it’s close enough to Hogwarts that the trio might be able to keep an eye on things and attempt to communicate with some students. Plus, it’s close enough [to] Hogsmeade, so the trio might be able to steal supplies like newspapers and food. However, it would be hard to go into the village with a disguise since it seems like a small town […] would recognize odd people and behavior. We know at some point a curfew is set up, so it would be hard to wander around at night, but it might work for a few weeks at least.”
Michael: Yeah, and isn’t Grawp being [laughs] … living in those caves now, too?
Kat: Is he still there?
Michael: Oh yeah, he’s still around. He’s in the vicinity. I thought he got moved somewhere from the forest because everybody knows he’s there now. So Hagrid could have set Grawp up as a bodyguard for them.
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Michael: And then maybe he would have served a purpose in this series, which would have been great.
[Caleb, Leah, and Michael laugh]
Kat: There you go. Well, tell Jo and have her re-write the book.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: I like the idea, as far as the proximity to Hogwarts, but still in a safe zone.
Caleb: Yeah, I think this is one of the most viable option, if they’re going to stay close to Hogwarts.
Kat: Well this comment, from Felix Scamander, is quite a good one. Ron would really like it. It says,
“They could’ve stayed with Aragog! He was perfectly friendly to people seeking a place to hide. Really though. In all seriousness, Hermione’s bag could’ve been used. Heck, it’s so easy to move, and it’s so discreet without any sort of protective charms around it. I wondered this throughout my first read, even though I was only nearing eight years old. Is the bag not suitable for living things, or would the weirdness of life inside it driven them insane or… what?”
I thought that that was just really cool, so I wanted to bring it up.
Caleb: [laughs] I guess my only thing would be, if they’re all in the bag, then who’s controlling the bag? How do they get out?
[Michael laughs]
Leah: Yeah. That reminds me of the Doctor Who episode where the Tardis is really tiny. And you can see the Doctor’s hand coming out of it…
Kat: Yes.
Leah: … and it looks like Thing from the Addams family.
Michael: [laughs] Huh. Because… living in the… I mean, obviously not the disguise of the bag, but living in the tent is somewhat equatable. Because I know we’ve already had people already talking that they both have an undetectable extension charm on them. I am assuming that you can’t live in a bag. I’m going to go off of that assumption.
Caleb: That’s a safe thing to say, I bet.
Leah: How do you get inside?
Kat: Maybe you just pull it over yourself. Like you’re putting on a hat. And you just disappear inside of it? I don’t know.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: Huh.
Kat: I don’t know. I thought it was very interesting. And if you’re thinking of this at eight years old, Felix Scamander… wow.
Michael: The big questions.
Kat: Yeah, exactly. Okay, so on to a more plausible solution here, this comment – our last one – is from YoRufusOnFire, our friend Stephanie, and it says,
“I am very surprised that Ron did not offer up Shell Cottage before as a place to hide. Bill and Fleur are already living there, right? Shell Cottage is used as a safe house, and this would be the perfect time to go there.”
Michael: Yeah, what’s that about Ron?
Caleb: I don’t know, I’m not surprised. Because wouldn’t they want to not be near them especially because now that they think the Death Eaters are tracking them? Right now they think it’s just Harry doing magic that’s causing… that’s the Trace, not saying Voldemort. So they would be endangering Bill and Fleur.
Leah: Yeah.
Caleb: Who obviously are not unable to handle themselves and would be happy to help, but this is again, Harry – we talked about that over the last couple of episodes – wanting to stay away from that.
Kat: Also, I mean, they are newlyweds.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: You know… I mean…
Michael: I think Harry’s other primary concern is that he doesn’t want people overhearing their business right now…
Caleb: Right.
Michael: … either. Because he really just wants to keep it between the three of them. And it would be kind of hard. I’m sure Bill and Fleur would try and respect that, but at the same time, how could they resist? Even accidentally overhearing something.
Kat: Well, I mean, it’s like just what happens when they go there later in the book.
Michael: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
Leah: And I think they kind of needed to… sad to say, but they needed to save Shell Cottage for when they do go there for after Dobby because…
[Kat winces]
Leah: … it’s this nice, quiet rest bit for them for a brief moment after something terrible. And it’s that break they needed at that time to mourn.
Kat: I’m not ready for that.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: It’s okay. We’re not quite there yet.
Kat: Phew! Thank goodness.
Michael: [laughs] Got a ways to go.
Kat: Good. That’s our Podcast Question of the Week response from last week. As always you guys should keep the conversation going. Head over to alohomora.mugglenet.com and keep sharing your theories and comments and come up with crazy things like living in a bag. That’s cool.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Kat: We like those on this show. Noah would be very proud.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: And for now it’s time to sit and listen to “Kreacher’s Tale.”
[Deathly Hallows Chapter 10 intro begins]
Harry: Kreacher!
Michael: Chapter 10.
[Sound of a crack]
Kreacher: Master?
Michael: “Kreacher’s Tale.”
[Deathly Hallows Chapter 10 intro ends]
Michael: As Harry wakes in Grimmauld Place, his thoughts roam from feeling crushing loneliness to intense frustration at the task Dumbledore has placed upon him. Seeking distraction Harry explores Grimmauld Place, noting that an intruder has already turned the house upside down in search of something unknown. Harry stumbles into Sirius’s old bedroom setting off a chain of clues that will in time connect to the Books central mysteries. A letter and photograph from Lily are curiously missing key information. RAB is revealed as Regulus Black. The trio has handled the locket before without realizing it’s value and the biggest reveal of all… the shocking and gruesome details of Regulus’s betrayal and demise are all vividly recalled by Kreacher, who may just be the trio’s last hope to beginning their quest in earnest.
Kat: [laughs] I thought you were going to say the biggest reveal of them all was that the Potters’ had a cat.
Leah: Yes! [laughs]
Michael: [laughs] Oh! We’ll get to that cat because my has there been speculation on that cat!
Kat: Oh, I know there has.
Michael: Who would have thought? [laughs] And the cat does factor into the first point, which is – in fact – Sirius’s bedroom, which oddly enough we haven’t visited yet. Sirius apparently didn’t feel the need to go in there during his return home. And of course there are quite a few things that are found in there. The first one of note is the photograph, and of course Lily’s note will be found in there too. And one thing I was actually thinking of just before this discussion was how interesting it is that Sirius didn’t share this with Harry. All of this. His room really. And I was wondering why you guys thought that is, because I was reflecting back onto the … Prisoner through Order, where Sirius and a lot of other people around Harry seem eager to show Harry things about his parents that they have in their possession. This is one thing that Sirius kept from Harry and I was wondering why that was.
Leah: Maybe it was too personal.
Michael: You think? More than anything Sirius has shared with Harry before?
Leah: Well, a person’s bedroom is their sanctuary and it’s not everyday that all your house guests would walk through your bedroom, unless they’re getting a grand tour, or something like that, and especially the state that Sirus’s bedroom was in? He had good memories of his friends that he wanted to share with Harry, but I don’t know if he wanted to get that deep. Maybe he wanted to save something for himself too.
Kat: Yeah, and also I was thinking about this when I was reading, and how much does Sirius really share with Harry about himself? Aren’t their conversations mostly about James, and friendships, and the past, and them all together, and not so much Sirius himself, with the exception of when we hear about the family tree and such?
Michael: Uh-huh. Well, and we get… I think Sirius is forced to share more when Harry sees the memory in Order of the Phoenix…
Kat: Right.
Michael: … that he perhaps may not have shared otherwise.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: That’s funny, I never really thought of it before, Sirius being that guarded about his recollections to Harry, but maybe it’s because we get recollections from a lot of individuals about Sirius’s time at Hogwarts.
Kat: Yeah, and I think he just really hated his home life. So he never thought about that place. It wasn’t a place that was important too him, and Sirius was more concerned with sharing memories about James, and his friendship, and all of that, than telling him about this house. Or this room in a house that he hated.
Michael: See, yeah, I guess I felt that was interesting because the room… as Harry notes, Sirius went all out to distance the room from everything about his family. The room is covered in Gryffindor banners. By the way – fun little fact – I think other than Quidditch matches that’s the first time we get confirmation that there are banners that students can take home and hang on their walls. I always thought that was just a movie-ism but apparently you can get those. There must be a gift shop at Hogwarts.
[Kat laughs]
Leah: Awesome.
Michael: But he does go to the effort to Gryffindor-up his room and cover it with – as Harry notes – posters of Muggle girls, which he knows because the pictures aren’t moving, and to plaster it also with pictures of his time at Hogwarts. And there’s stuff all over the floor from his time at Hogwarts, and I just thought that the room doesn’t necessarily… even though it’s in this house that Sirius hated, the room itself doesn’t really seem to reflect much of the things that Sirius hated about his home life.
Kat: That’s true. When did Sirius move out? Or when was he kicked out?
Michael: Wasn’t it in the middle of his Hogwarts years?
Kat: I was going to say, yeah, he was still in school, right, too?
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: So maybe he just never got the chance to take those things with him or… I mean, I don’t know.
Michael: Oh, that could be it, too. Yeah, I didn’t think of that, since he…
Leah: He was 16.
Kat: He got kicked out, essentially, right?
Leah and Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah, so…
Michael: Yeah, and he went to live with James, actually.
Kat: Right.
Michael: Hmm. That’s an interesting thought. Shame we never get to go to where James lived because I suppose Sirius has another room over there.
Kat: Yeah, probably.
Michael: Who knows who that belongs to now? But yeah, it was just an interesting thought that Sirius kept this so private, again, just thinking about how eager everybody is to share whatever relics of James and Lily are left with Harry.
Kat: I thought of Luna’s room when I thought of Sirius’s room, just as a shrine to…
Kat and Michael: Friendship.
Kat: … and the things that made him happy.
Michael: That’s an interesting comparison, Luna and Sirius. Remember that and keep that one locked away for when we get to Luna’s room.
Kat: Okay, it’s in the vault.
Michael: [laughs] In your Gringotts vault?
Kat: Mhm. My mind palace.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Leah: Yes.
Michael: You’re Sherlock-ed. So there are some interesting things about the things that Harry picks up. With the photograph, probably one of the most fascinating things I noted that I never really caught before is Sirius and James are put in a set and Lupin and Pettigrew are put in a set when Harry looks at them in the picture. And I didn’t really know what to make of that.
Caleb: And I think I still don’t.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Caleb: I think about this every time I read this section and I’m just not sure about it.
Michael: Do you think it was a subtle foreshadowing of what’s to come with Lupin?
Kat: I’m just rereading the paragraph, as I never…
Michael: Sure, you can even read it out loud if you’d like.
Kat: Oh, you could read it out loud.
Michael: Okay, it says… okay, so I’ll just read the part about Pettigrew and Lupin but it says,
“To Sirius’s right stood Pettigrew, more than a head shorter, plump and watery-eyed, flushed with pleasure at his inclusion in this coolest of gangs, with the much-admired rebels that James and Sirius had been. On James’s left was Lupin, even then a little shabby-looking, but he had the same air of delighted surprise at finding himself liked and included… or was it simply because Harry knew how it had been, that he saw all these things in the picture?”
So Lupin isn’t necessarily compared as far as physicality, but he’s compared in as far as Harry’s perception of his happiness to be included in the group. And I think it’s striking to me only because up to this point, James and Sirius have been put in a set, Lupin has been put in his own little bubble of the responsible one, and Pettigrew has always been portrayed as the glad-to-be-there-one, and it seems to be the first time that Lupin is even compared to Pettigrew in any way in the series.
Kat: Right, and it’s funny that it’s coming from Harry, so what has happened? What has changed Harry’s opinion on Lupin?
Michael: Yeah. Well, could it… I suppose it could have something to do with Lupin’s recent behavior.
Caleb: Yeah, that would be the biggest thing he would be going off of.
Michael: But I was just wondering if it was meant to be some kind of… because we will see in the coming chapter, Lupin is… the word “coward” is thrown about in relation to Lupin. And Pettigrew is often frequently labeled with that word. So I was just wondering if it was meant to be something that Jo was setting up even earlier on in a subtle sort of way, or if it meant something else in the long run. But I’m not really sure what to make of it. Anyway, that was disturbing, so let’s move on to other things.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Maybe the listeners can hash that one out. The other thing that I wanted to note – because this was such a big topic of discussion as far as Dustledore last week – a lot of people pointed out that they felt Dustledore shouldn’t even exist because Mad-Eye is dead, and when you die, as we’ve seen, your curses and charms stop. But Sirius’s Permanent Sticking Charms are all still working on everything that he’s put up in the house.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah, see, I always assumed that that was more of a… I don’t know. It’s hard to say because it’s obviously magic, but it feels more like a household charm than magic.
Michael: Uh-huh.
Kat: I know what I’m trying to say… does that make sense?
Michael: Well, yeah. Okay, because I suppose the big one that people cite as far as a curse that breaks when someone dies is when Dumbledore’s Body Bind on Harry breaks.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: And that’s more of, like you were saying, a combative spell.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: Versus a household charm.
Caleb: I think the way that I would distinguish it is because Dumbledore’s spell is targeted at Harry – it’s Dumbledore imposing his will on Harry or controlling Harry’s will or restricting him in a way – it’s a one-to-one connection, right? And so when he dies that sort of control over Harry is gone. Versus the Permanent Sticking Charm; that thing that the spell was targeted on isn’t like a person that the caster held control over. It’s like creating an effect – like Kat said – on this household setting, and maybe Moody’s spell survives because it’s created in perpetuity. It’s not targeting… well, it is influenced for a certain person, but it’s obviously not restricting Snape’s freedom only.
Kat: Right, it’s not actionable on a single person, basically.
Caleb and Michael: Mhm.
Kat: Right. Okay.
Michael: Okay, that’s an interesting way to put it, that it only…
Caleb: Not saying I’m right, but… [laughs]
Michael: No, no, but that’s a good… I think that might actually be a good theory; the idea that spells that actually take control or affect individuals are different than spells that are just meant for inanimate objects [and] are more like charms or jinxes. Because that would also explain Dustledore because, like you guys said, he’s not targeted at an individual. He’s targeted at Snape, but he works on other people.
Caleb: Mhm.
Kat: So then do we take in movie canon and Francis the fish?
Michael: No. [laughs] As much as I’d love to…
Kat: Yeah, he’s brilliant.
Michael: … because that’s probably the best bit of magic that was made up for the movies.
Kat: Right.
Michael: Because Francis the fish, though, would work with that rule, though, right? Because he’s a living thing. Right?
Kat: Hmm, but it’s not controlling or acting toward anybody; it’s not for… it’s more like the Permanent Sticking Charm where it’s just something that lives in the world for itself.
Michael: Showy magic. Yeah. I’m trying to think… see, and that’s the problem, too, of course, with being on the show and with a time crunch; it’s hard to recall all the canon examples.
Kat: Right.
Caleb: How dare you not have it all at your disposal immediately.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Well, if Pottermore’s search engine was a little better…
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Yes, I will keep peppering that through every episode I’m on. But yeah, I think that’s something to keep pondering… I think that was a great question that was raised with the issue of Dustledore.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: So I think that’s something to keep an eye out for, and listeners, I’m sure… since you have the time that we don’t, feel free to rifle back through all the pages and find all the examples of magic from dead people.
Kat: I’m sure we will hear all about it. I look forward to it.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: I’d be disappointed otherwise.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: And then, of course, probably the much more major artifact that Harry finds in Sirius’s room is a note from Lily Potter. And there’s a lot in this note, and even some things that we can’t necessarily talk about yet because it’s not quite time. But we’ll get the biggest one out of the way. The cat… [laughs]
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: … because there was a cat apparently that belonged to the Potters. Kat, since you’re our resident cat expert…
Kat: Am I?
Michael: You are. It’s a part of your name; it’s a part of you. Would you like to explain the theory to our listeners who may not have heard of it?
Caleb: I have to admit I feel like I’m living in the the Dark Ages because I don’t know about this theory.
Kat: Admittedly, I don’t either.
Michael: You guys don’t know the theory?
Kat and Leah: No.
Caleb: I have a feeling I know what it is, but…
Michael: Okay, so… and actually, listeners, if you go to MuggleNet’s “Dear Hogwarts” letters, Harry got a letter about this. So it’s been bandied about for a while. So of course, when Voldemort cast the Killing Curse on Harry, the idea is that the existing piece of his soul had to latch onto something living to survive and so it latched onto Harry. So of course, a bunch of people were like, “Well, there was another living soul in the house: the cat.”
Kat: Right, okay, I do remember this now.
[Michael laughs]
Caleb: This is not at all where I thought this was going.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Well, what would your theory have been?
Caleb: I just thought the people thought that the cat was McGonagall watching over Harry or something.
Leah: That was my first thought.
Kat: That would have been cute.
Caleb: Obviously that’s where my brain automatically goes always.
[Caleb and Kat laugh]
Michael: I don’t think the cat is… I mean, I’m sure that theory has been thrown around.
Caleb: I definitely don’t think that was the case at all.
Michael: I think there was a theory thrown around that the cat was Crookshanks.
Leah: Oh.
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: I mean, I wouldn’t know what… really, in the end, what does that do for the series? [laughs]
Kat: I think it would be more interesting if the cat ended up with Mrs. Figg somehow.
Michael: That would be interesting.
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: That would seem more appropriate because it would be more of a connection to the Muggle world.
Kat: Yeah, pretty far apart, though, I imagine, probably.
Michael: Yeah, I don’t think the cat is going to be wandering from Godric’s Hollow all the way to…
Kat: Although, I mean, cats do… as the resident cat expert, I should say…
Michael: [laughs] They wander.
Kat: … cats do wander fairly far from home on a daily basis.
Michael: That’s true.
Kat: So it’s possible. Maybe it recognized Harry’s scent or something. I don’t know.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Maybe… okay, here we go, McGonagall showed up like Caleb said, spoke to the cat, and was like, “We’re moving Harry here. Go find him and keep watch.”
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: There you go. There’s the new cat theory.
Michael: Good, we’ve made some new theories for this cat.
Kat: Yup, exactly.
Michael: Listeners, please give us all your cat theories. I’m sure we… Mrs. Norris probably can work her way into this somehow, too.
Caleb: Oh, but I’d rather her not.
Michael: [laughs] I suppose it is fun just in terms of the fact that cats do seem to play significant roles in the series a lot of the time.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: But here’s just a cat. This cat is just another Mark Evans as far as plot devices go. But another interesting thing – and this will come up again, actually, in this chapter – is that Lily mentions Harry’s Quidditch skills that he seems to have just naturally inherited. It’s a bit tragic; this is probably one of the most tragic things that we hear from Lily and James from beyond the grave is that Lily reports to Sirius that James thinks that Harry will be a really good Quidditch player. So that’s one of those… a common trope that you’ll see in fan fiction a lot is the idea that the Potter parents foretold everything about Harry. You see it a lot in their conversations even before they even conceive the idea of children that they’re like, “Oh, he’ll be a Seeker. I’m a Chaser but he’ll be a Seeker,” kind of a thing. And it’s used with really good restraint here, I think, because it’s not like they’re predicting everything about Harry.
Kat: It’s just James projecting his own things onto Harry, basically. All parents do that.
Michael: Yeah, in a way that came true.
Kat: Right.
Michael: Which was nice. And the toy broomstick, which is fun. We’ve seen toy broomsticks before in Goblet of Fire.
Kat: So cute.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: I like when Harry hands Hermione the picture and is like, “Look at my baby pictures.”
Kat: Yeah, it’s absolutely adorable.
Michael: It’s nice that Harry is getting this moment of things that… another one of those moments that most kids get to have and he doesn’t.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: It’s nice to have that here. Now, the big thing from Lily’s letter… it’s interesting how Lily’s letter plays a role in the story because I think it plays a role in one of the most unconventional ways a letter has ever done in a book. She mentions Bathilda Bagshot and she mentions that she was actually over for tea for Harry’s birthday, implying that the Potters were actually pretty good friends with Bathilda. And I think it’s just worth it… I’m going to read, actually, not just… I went to the end of the book to find the end of Lily’s letter because again, what’s fascinating about it is really this part of the content of Lily’s letter doesn’t actually matter. It’s not what the big reveal of her letter is used for, but it’s…
Kat: Mhm. And I have thoughts on Bathilda.
Michael: Oh, well, why don’t you say your thoughts on Bathilda and then I’ll read the final part of Lily’s letter?
Kat: It just… for the first time reading the letter, it felt super out of place.
Michael: Hmm.
Kat: She was just stuck in there, like she was… so Lily is writing a letter to Sirius, who has known them for a while and knows about their life and who they hang out with and who lives near them and everything, and this sentence says, “We had a very quiet birthday tea, just us and old Bathilda, who has always been sweet to us and who dotes on Harry.” I don’t know. That sentence, this time, felt to me just a little out of place.
Michael: Does it feel too much like a setup?
Kat: Yeah. It does.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: Because I feel like that’s something Sirius, as Harry’s godfather…
Michael: Would know.
Kat: … would probably know.
Michael: I’m wondering, though – okay, this is the kind of thing where I should have a timeline or the listeners are going to get angry at me – because we know that Lily and James had Harry pretty soon after leaving Hogwarts, right? They joined the Order and had Harry almost… got married almost immediately after. So I’m just pondering, how long were they in Godric’s Hollow?
Kat: Well, if they’re great friends with Bathilda, clearly at least a year. At least as long as Harry’s life.
Michael: Hmm. Yeah, that’s interesting. Well, and that brings up I guess, then, the unknown of what Sirius was up to within that year and how well he kept in touch with them.
Kat: Right. That’s true.
Michael: Because of course, there’s the issue that they almost immediately are willing to suspect that Sirius was the one who betrayed them or could. They also put Lupin on that list.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: A lot of people go straight to the Marauders’ younger eras as far as the big unknowns, but I think that gap between Lily and James leaving Hogwarts and their death is a pretty major gap in the series.
Kat: Well, maybe that’s what the play is going to be about.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Kat: Who the hell knows at this point, right?
Michael: The not prequel, right?
Kat: Right. Not a prequel.
Michael: It’s not a prequel. [laughs] But yeah, that’s interesting to reflect on about how well-connected Bathilda really was to the Potters.
Kat: I mean, because then there’s another line; she goes on, and says, “Bathilda drops in most days. She’s a fascinating old thing with the most amazing stories about Dumbledore.”
Michael: Mhm. Yeah.
Caleb: To me, it always was just… I mean, Bathilda is pretty famous in the magical world, so it’s almost like if you live next to a celebrity or for some reason you suddenly have a friendship with this celebrity or someone really well-known. Maybe that’s what you would highlight in a letter to a friend or when you’re talking to someone, like, “Oh, you know, so-and-so and I just went out to get drinks,” with this person who’s really famous who the other person wouldn’t immediately recognize.
Kat: Oh, fair enough. Yeah, I haven’t thought far enough about it like that. Fair enough.
Michael: That’s a good way to put it. I almost think that this… I wonder… because I can never say for sure, of course, because only Rowling can say that, but I wonder how far in advance Bathilda was linked to the Potters in Rowling’s mind; if this was something that she realized would work out really well and be convenient later. Because I can see what you’re saying, Kat, that this seems to be some awfully convenient set-up…
Kat: Yeah.
Michael: … because Bathilda’s name gets dropped a lot in relation to the Potters in a way that it never has been before.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: So I could see that. And speaking of that line that you read, Kat, I’m going to read that last paragraph from Lily’s letter because I just want to read where it bleeds into the proper ending – the second page of her letter – because I think this is something that a lot of people have a hard time connecting it when they’re read the book through. So Lily’s letter says in the last paragraph,
“Bathilda drops in most days, she’s a fascinating old thing with the most amazing stories about Dumbledore, I’m not sure he’d be pleased if he knew! I don’t know how much to believe, actually, because it seems incredible that Dumbledore could have ever been friends with Gellert Grindelwald. I think her mind’s going, personally! Lots of love, Lily.”
So that’s Lily’s full last paragraph, and what I just find fascinating about that because like you said… I can’t really think of an example. Letters frequently play this kind of role in a mystery, where just the perfect point of information is cut off, but what’s fascinating about Lily’s letter is the point of the information where it’s cut off…. the reveal of the letter comes way after that particular bit of information is relevant about Grindelwald. And that part of the letter doesn’t become important, and actually, the piece of the letter that is important is actually here in this paragraph on page 181 and this is pure narration from Harry’s point of view, and it says,
“[Harry] read the letter again, but could not take in any more meaning than he had done the first time, and was reduced to staring at the handwriting itself. She had made her ‘g’s the same way he did: He searched through the letter for every one of them, and each felt like a friendly little wave glimpsed from behind a veil.”
That’s an important line, there, listeners.
“The letter was an incredible treasure, proof that Lily Potter had lived, really lived, that her warm hand had once moved across the parchment, tracing ink into these letters, these words, words about him, Harry, her son.”
I don’t think the importance of that paragraph ever struck me before as much as it did on this reread. That’s the true relevance of the letter. And Leah, I see you had a point here about that in relation to that.
Leah: Yes, particularly about the part where Harry makes his “g”s the same way his mom did. And really, I would think there’s no way he would have seen that growing up, but I know personally that my brother’s signature mimics my dad’s signature and that he always wanted to have that same flourish or whatever, and for me, I love handwriting things and I’d kill to see what Rowling would have as Lily’s handwriting since we’ve seen Hagrid’s and Dumbledore’s and everything. I would love to see Lily’s handwriting. But my “d”s, I make them like my mom, my “w”s I got from a stack of World War II letters that I read, and my “m”s come from Civil War letters that I read, and my “e” I stole from Queen Elizabeth I.
Kat: Nice.
Leah: But I just think that that’s interesting; handwriting is so personal and if you have that connection to somebody… it’s hard to mimic handwriting, and so for this to be this thing that Harry does completely inadvertently… he would not have known that his mom wrote “g”s that way unless he was super, super observant as a toddler. But I just think that that’s a really, really cool connection; not even just the fact that she wrote the letter and that her hand moved across the parchment, but that their handwriting is similar. And he always hears about [how] he looks like James but he has Lily’s eyes, but just to have this thing that you sort of have a little bit of more control over, and yet there’s still that connection to his parents.
Michael: Yeah, he doesn’t just have her eyes. He also has her “g”s.
[Everyone laughs]
Kat: It’s funny that you mention the letter because this letter actually exists at the Studio Tour.
Michael: Really?
Leah: Does it really? Oh my God!
Kat: Yes, in the MinaLima thing. Yes, because at one point they were going to film this…
Michael: They should have.
Kat: … or they did, and it’s a cut scene that has never aired. But this letter does exist at the Studio Tour in the MinaLima case.
Leah: You’re going to hear about me being on the news involved in a robbery.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Make sure if you do get your hands on it, make a photocopy for all of us.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: No, that’s a great… I think it’s worth it to read that deep into this paragraph because really, until this reread, I never understood the significance of this paragraph. I just enjoyed it as Harry’s increasing relationship to his mother on a new level, but this paragraph is what makes Lily’s letter important as a plot point. This is why the rest of her letter has been stolen. Not because of the contents… and again, this is what’s great: Most letters in a narrative are stolen because the content is important or the content is something that somebody doesn’t want the lead character to know. For the listeners who are confused by what I’m saying – which you really shouldn’t be – Snape stole the letter. Snape has stolen the second page and he stole it because it has Lily’s signature on it. And again, this paragraph summarizes, I think in a similar way, what this letter means to Snape.
Kat: Mhm. Yup.
Michael: So it’s great because it’s such a great throwaway thing that can mean something else on your first or even second reread. But this paragraph is very carefully written by Rowling.
Kat: Yeah, the only difference between Snape and Harry in this instance is that one loves Lily and one is obsessed with her, so… never mind.
[Michael laughs]
Leah: Right. So you think this proves then… because some people discuss how much did Snape and Lily keep in contact; then this proves that she never wrote him any letters because he would’ve kept those and had them already.
Caleb and Kat: Mhm.
Michael: Well, and it’s interesting that… I’m not quite sure how Snape knew this letter was there. He didn’t know where it was because he trashed the whole house in his attempts to get it. But I don’t even know how he knew this letter existed. Did Sirius just idly mention it? How did this come up?
Kat: I mean, Snape could’ve been looking for anything for all we know.
Michael: Well, the funny thing, too, is he could’ve just said ostensibly, “Accio Lily’s letter,” instead of turning the house upside down.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Caleb: But he didn’t know that he was looking for that, right?
Michael: So what was he looking for?
Kat: I don’t know. He could’ve been looking for anything. Maybe he was looking for a Horcrux. I don’t know.
Caleb: Yeah, I can’t remember if we find out later. Another one of these things that we’re not going to remember reading a chapter at a time, listeners, but…
Michael: Yeah, sorry, listeners. Help us, you’re our only hope.
Caleb: I feel like he’s not looking for the letter purposefully.
Michael: Hmm. Maybe. That’s interesting. We’ll have to… yeah, listeners, if you can remind us, we would love the reminder of what Snape was looking for if not the letter. But yes, there’s that, as far as expanding on that paragraph that seems like a throwaway. And of course, as Harry is reading this letter and looking over the part about Dumbledore, his conflict is increasing about what to believe. And the big line actually comes later when Hermione comes in and reads the letter, and she actually brushes it off and tells Harry that he should just remember Dumbledore as he was, which is shocking to hear from Hermione. Hermione doesn’t usually think that sentimentally. But Harry reflects to himself, “There it was again: Choose what to believe. Harry wanted the truth. Why was everybody so determined that he should not get it?” Leah?
Leah: One of the sessions or panels at NerdCon talked about writing truths and whose truths, how much truth do you include, and that kind of thing, and there’s really a difference between truth and fact, and truth is going to have your own personal spin on it because what’s your personal experience and your truth is different from somebody else’s. And so Harry wanted the truth, but he already has many versions of the truth. And I really think it does come down to choosing what to believe because we all do that on a daily basis with any issues that people can have opinions on. And some people might think that Dumbledore was terrible for his friendship or that there’s different reasons behind it. And I don’t know, I think that… I can understand where Harry is coming from where he wants more facts, but often times more facts can just be more confusing.
Michael: Hmm. Isn’t that interesting, the idea that really, what is the truth because the truth might be relative. Hmm. And really, because Harry is going to get “the truth” when, of course, he finally meets Aberforth, but I suppose that just goes back to the idea that the truth is still relative, right?
Leah: Mhm, yeah. He’ll get Aberforth’s truth, but I guess we never really quite get the truth that Harry is seeking, which is Dumbledore’s truth. I guess he never gets to see Dumbledore’s side of the story directly from Dumbledore.
Michael: Do you think Harry does eventually submit to that idea, and maybe that that is the right idea, that you just have to choose the Dumbledore you believe in?
Leah: It’s hard to say.
Caleb: I don’t know if he ever gets the opportunity, at the end, to really consider it because things are so high stakes. Maybe after it’s all settled – I’m talking the end of the book, not nineteen years later, but before that – when Harry has had some time to consider it all and really recover from everything that’s happened. Maybe that’s when he starts to think about what he’s learned of Dumbledore and how he would reflect on it.
Leah: He should talk to his portrait.
Caleb: Yeah, that might help.
Michael: And get Dumbledore’s truth.
Leah: Yeah.
Michael: Which is still relative.
Kat: Right.
Michael: [laughs] Huh. So maybe Hermione is right. Hermione is still right. Okay. Well, that’s good. That’s something that we can always…
[Everyone laughs]
Caleb: Moral of the story here.
Michael: Balance restored. [laughs] We always want to know Hermione is right. But yeah, actually, I’m glad that you phrased it that way, Leah, especially in using the information from that panel you went to because I think perhaps that’s something we as readers have to do because I’d say the Harry Potter fandom as a whole hasn’t come to a consensus on Dumbledore and what truth each of us individually believes about him. So that’ll be something I think we will all be continuing to reflect on as we continue through Deathly Hallows. But one truth that is definitively given to us is, “Who is R.A.B.?” Really, probably… now, I know there were actually a lot of us on here who didn’t figure it out, but I’d say that probably out of all the mysteries Rowling set up, this is the one that the Potter fandom solved the quickest.
Caleb: Yup. Absolutely.
Michael: [laughs] Not to… you have to remember, listeners, that this was the time when the Internet had just started in its stride, as far as sharing information and sharing it quickly, and RAB was thrown around very fast after it was introduced, and almost immediately solved.
Kat: But how did people figure it out? We didn’t have the middle name, did we?
Michael: We did not.
Caleb: No, but I think when I read it, almost on the page itself – I’m talking back in Half-Blood Prince – that’s what I thought.
[Michael laughs]
Kat: Huh.
Leah: Yeah, same. I was so proud of myself because I don’t solve things ahead of time. If something is predictable to me, that means it’s super, super predictable because I just don’t think that way normally when I’m reading or watching a movie. But I immediately thought, when I saw RAB, I thought of… I always said [pronounces as “Reg-ulus”] Regulus Black. But I also went back to the fact that they had found a locket at Grimmauld Place when they were first there in Order of the Phoenix, and that nobody could open it. And I thought, “Points connected. Got it.”
Michael: [laughs] She laid out the clues almost too well in this case for some, it would seem. So of course, [pronounces as “Rej-ulus”] Regulus [pronounces as “Reg-ulus”] Regulus, depending on how you pronounce it; I go back and forth between both because he’s not a big enough character for me to have decided, unfortunately…
[Kat and Leah laugh]
Michael: … since he’s never on the page in person. But Regulus Arcturus Black is our RAB. Just as a fun little bit of information because we always love to pull apart the name, his name means “little king,” which seems awfully fitting, based on how his family thought of him. It was also an alternate term for a basilisk, so it fits in perfectly, it would seem.
Leah: Oh.
Kat: Really?
Michael: Of course, all of the Blacks’ names are pulled from stars and constellations. His is the very heart of the constellation Leo, so just further boosting his importance in the Black family. Now, the other interesting thing, though, too, is the name was that of a Roman general who sacrificed himself.
Caleb and Kat: Hmm.
Michael: His middle name, Arcturus, is also a star, and it means… it actually doesn’t mean “snake”; it means “bear guardian.” So that’s where the most important points of Regulus Black’s name come from. They all seem to fit quite well, don’t they?
Leah: Mhm.
Kat: They do.
Leah: And actually, Arcturus is the third brightest individual star in the sky after Sirius and Canopus.
Michael: Oh.
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: Ah… but after Sirius. [laughs]
Leah: Yes, after Sirius.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Leah: And it’s only his middle name.
[Caleb, Leah, and Michael laugh]
Michael: Sirius had one one-up on him.
[Leah laughs]
Kat: It’s funny that the Regulus star is in the Leo constellation…
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: … seeing as that’s a lion.
Michael: But is it really, thinking about what happens?
Kat: No, but I just mean it’s…
Leah: For the Black family to pick that…
Michael: It was almost a mistake on their part.
[Leah laughs]
Caleb: Yeah. I also wouldn’t necessarily go so far as to say that what Regulus did makes him a Gryffindor, because I think there’s still some good-hearted actions that could come out of a Slytherin. I think he could still be a Slytherin, so the Leo thing is still a bit surprising to me as well.
Leah: Mhm.
Michael: Yeah, and as we get into what happened to Regulus, I think there’s some actually interesting discussion on a few characters that we can compare him to. But Leah, you also noted with the reveal of Regulus, that comes along with him having a middle name.
Leah: Mhm. Yeah, and I don’t know of very many secondary characters that have middle names. I was thinking R.J. Lupin…
Michael: Mmm. John.
Leah: And we know Hermione Jean and Ron Bilius, but they’re important. But we even still don’t find those out until just recently.
Caleb: Dumbledore took all the middle names.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Leah: Yeah.
Kat: Yeah, he did, huh? Right.
Leah: And some people, I guess, don’t have middle names. Sean Biggerstaff, the actor who played Oliver Wood, doesn’t have a middle name.
Kat: Hmm.
Leah: But I think they said because with the last name “Biggerstaff,” you don’t need a middle name.
Kat: But is that his legit name, or is that his stage name?
Leah: I think that’s his real name.
Caleb: I’ve met quite a few people who don’t have middle names.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: Yeah. Me, too.
Michael: Hmm, I’ve heard before, and I know now that the K in Rowling’s name is for Kathleen, which was her grandmother, but…
Kat: It was for me, Michael.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: It was for Joanne Kat Rowling. But I’d heard before that she actually didn’t have a proper middle name and that she took that on when she took her pen name.
Caleb: Hmm.
Leah: Oh.
Michael: So that could be wrong. Rowling. Feel free to confirm.
[Caleb and Michael laugh]
Michael: Throw it out on Twitter if you’d like. So maybe that… I don’t know, maybe that’s why some people were kind of frustrated with this particular clue because you don’t have the A to confirm until this moment. I think that’s why that was kind of considered a “Well, it could be anybody.” But I almost wonder what the intent significance of his name… that goes back, Kat, to what you were saying about Voldemort. I kind of feel in this case we could probably safely theorize that the Blacks did go to Seers to get their names, it would seem.
Kat: I would say so. It seems too coincidental that they’re all named after stars. Or maybe it’s like one of those families where they just name all their kids with the same letter. Maybe they just had a theme going on.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Leah: Mhm.
Kat: I had a friend growing up – she has thirteen brothers and sisters – all their names start with A.
Michael: Hmm…
Leah: Oh my God!
Michael: That’s frustrating. [laughs]
Kat: Yeah. I used to be able to name them all and I was so proud of myself.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: Well, it’s…
Leah: All my uncles are named after saints, so… [laughs]
Kat: Yeah. See, it’s a theme.
Michael: Well, and it… I guess it just seems to go really well with the idea of the Seer thing because that connects to astrology with the idea of naming your kids after stars, so I have to wonder if that wasn’t something. Because it is also implied on Pottermore that that practice is done by very traditional wizarding families. And who are more traditional than the Blacks, really? Again…
Leah: And Draco.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, Draco… well, he’s an extension of that family. Of course, everybody is, really, when you trace it back, which is a little frightening.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Kat: Right.
Michael: Again, the point is made about… Quidditch comes up again, and this is interesting. Harry actually reveals to us that the Quidditch teams take a photo every year…
[Leah and Michael laughs]
Michael: … and that they have a very specific spot where everybody sits. Not too far off from Muggle sports.
Caleb: Nope.
Michael: And he points in the center and says, “That’s where the Seeker sits. Regulus must have been a Seeker.” Something that’ll come up later when we get to the story about… that I am interested to explore the significance of when we get to Regulus’s story. But of course the major thing that, as Leah connected right when she was reading the book her very first time, the locket is recalled by Hermione. So Leah, you are on the same level as Hermione. I think that’s a good place to be.
Kat: Well, she’s a Hufflepuff. She’s a good finder.
Michael: That’s right!
Leah: Yes.
[Everyone laughs]
Michael: Hermione makes the connection, fittlingly it would seem since this ties in to Kreacher, and they rush downstairs to see if Kreacher’s around. He is not, but Harry has the ability to call him. And Kreacher begins his very sad and sorry tale. This is actually probably… there’s a lot of sad points in Harry Potter, and of course a lot of people bring up the traditional ones of… mostly people who die on screen, but this is a really striking one to me; it always has been, and it’s a shame that it’s not done in the movie proper. But Kreacher reveals kind of… Kreacher pretty much gives his whole backstory and why he is the way he is. And he of course reveals that he was used as a test by Voldemort to see how the Horcrux in the cave would work with the potion. Now my question is with that: why didn’t Voldemort just use a person? Why didn’t he use a Death Eater? Hermione notes that Kreacher, in Voldemort’s eyes, would have been disposable, but did Voldemort really not have any other people on his team who he thought were disposable? Because he seems to have a lot of them now.
Kat: Well, it’s the boat thing, right?
Caleb: Yeah.
Kat: Like, he couldn’t bring another adult person in the boat.
Michael: Hmm.
Kat: I mean, maybe he could have changed the magic to test it out, I suppose.
Caleb: Yeah, he wanted to test it out so it would work that same way in the future, so no two people could get there and get away.
Michael: Okay.
Kat: Right.
Michael: That makes more sense. Because I had pondered if this was actually something that Voldemort was doing against Regulus, but that wouldn’t really make sense…
Caleb: No.
Michael: … as far as what we know about Voldemort’s relationship with Regulus. He seemed to have him… take him in confidence.
Caleb: I think it is interesting because he could have in theory… I’m trying to think of how far back this was, but the Malfoys have always had house-elves in their family. I figure he could have just as easily used a house-elf from the Malfoy family, which would have changed everything.
Michael: Yes!
Kat: Right.
Michael: Well, yes. And he does put the call out to all of his Death Eaters.
Caleb: Yup.
Michael: He doesn’t specifically ask Regulus. Regulus offers Kreacher up because he feels it’s an honor.
Caleb: Right.
Kat: Yeah, the Malfoys might have thought it was a little too expensive of a thing to give up, perhaps.
Caleb: Right.
Michael: Huh!
Kat: They’re selfish people.
Michael: That’s true. Maybe that’s why they wouldn’t have done something like that. Now, of course, we know Kreacher drinks the potion and he doesn’t say what he saw; he just says he saw terrible things. What did Kreacher see?
Kat: Hmm.
Michael: And I ask because we know what Dumbledore saw now. At least, according to Rowling, and according to Harry, even at the end of the book, Harry supposes that Dumbledore saw Ariana’s last moments.
Caleb: Yeah, I would assume it would be his mistress – Harry’s… [not] Harry – Sirius’s mother maybe dismissing him…
Michael: Hmm.
Kat: Perhaps.
Caleb: … in a very forceful, awful way.
Kat: I think, too, it could be something that’s happened in his life that we don’t even know about because Kreacher does change. He becomes a very different elf and so… this is going to sound odd, but he does have some sort of a softer side, and so perhaps there is something that happened to him early on that we just don’t know about, that that’s what he sees.
Michael: Hmm.
Kat: It’s probably… obviously it’s like 5,000 percent more plausible that it’s being dismissed, but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Michael: Hmm, that’s interesting as far as being dismissed, just because of the idea that – which we’ll get into, of course – that how brainwashed house-elves have been. And that goes along with how deep this potion digs into your psyche, because as we saw with Dumbledore, it digs pretty deep, it would seem. And the element of being dismissed from your family – I’d say Hermione would argue – is not really a house-elf’s true way of thinking; it’s just the way they’ve been brainwashed to think. So I’m wondering if it would even go to… if it would target something else in Kreacher. Something even…
Kat: Yeah, that’s why I was thinking perhaps there’s something we just don’t know about that has happened.
Michael: Mhm. Yeah. Maybe it would even be the realization of how foul your treatment as a house-elf is.
Kat: Yeah. Kind of like Dudley.
Michael: Yeah! Yeah, exactly.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: The kind of thing Dudley saw when the Dementors encountered him, which seems to have a similar effect to this potion. We did even… that’s right, we actually supposed that maybe Voldemort used Essence of Dementor in his potion.
Kat: [laughs] That’s right.
Michael: [laughs] I forgot about that. And now, Kreacher briefly, interestingly… I’m trying to remember where I was thinking that moment when Kreacher defied a command. Ah, Kreacher defies a command when he… this I thought was interesting. Kreacher defies a command when Hermione tries to hug him, and he goes back into saying horrible things about her and calling her slurs, and Harry had specifically ordered him not to do that beforehand. And that goes back to the question that we were circling around to because we’ve had this discussion – I think it’s coming to its head – of just how much of house-elves’ behavior is magic and how much of it is a product of brainwashing. Because we see, too, that Harry gives other commands in this chapter that do seem to be an almost magical reaction in the way that Kreacher behaves. But is it really magic, or is this just pure brain[washing]? What do you guys think this is at this point?
Caleb: I’ve always thought that the punishing was brainwashing, and this is just because when we see Dobby do it… I don’t know. Maybe I’m reading too much into seeing it visually in the movie, which obviously is not necessarily the accurate representation. It just seems like it’s the choice because of feeling compelled to do it rather than a trigger: he disobeys, must punish immediately. Also because there’s variety in the way they punish themselves, it would be harder, I think, for the magic to force that because they’re taking different courses of action.
Michael: Mmm. Mhm.
Leah: Mhm. And it’s not always immediate, too, right? Because I don’t know if it’s a movie-ism or not, but when Dobby says he had to iron his hands, it was after the fact that he had spoken to Harry or something, right?
Michael: Yeah, he…
Leah: It wasn’t, “Oh, while I’m telling you this, I’m going to iron my fingers.”
[Michael laughs]
Leah: It was after the fact.
Michael: Yeah, he goes home and does it.
Kat: [laughs] It’s so terrible.
Michael: That is terrible.
Kat: Ironing your hands. [clears throat] I’ve always thought about this a few different ways, and I guess the one that I always go back to is that it’s both. It’s that there’s definitely some kind of magical-binding contract type thing…
Michael: Mmm.
Kat: … but I think that it’s more in the fact that the magic is more of an ownership type of magic, and it relates more to duties and actions as opposed to this “free speech.” But then I remember the moment when Harry tells one of the elves to “shut up,” and they just immediately stopped talking. So, I’m not sure. I go back and forth about it all the time.
Michael: And the way that you phrase that, Kat, is kind of how I think about it too, because that’s a good example. The one where Kreacher or Dobby will immediately stop, in a way that is almost magical.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: And I like the idea that there is a contract, that maybe the brainwashing was sealed with a magical contract to enact that magical piece, but that it can be overridden because there’s still a mind-over-matter issue going on. It’s almost like an Imperius Curse, I guess, in a way.
Kat: Hmm, okay.
Michael: Through a contract.
Kat: Yeah, I can see that.
Michael: Yeah, I don’t know. I think about it in a way similar to you, Kat, that there’s a mixture of magic. The magic somehow worked its way into the DNA of a house-elf.
Kat: Right. And the thing is, too, the only house-elves we ever see are the ones who work for pretty crappy families.
Michael: [laughs] Yes.
Leah: Yeah.
Kat: I guess with the exemption of Winky.
Michael: Mhm.
Kat: But we don’t know enough about Hepzibah to know… I think she treated her pretty well. I feel like…
Michael: Oh, you mean Hokey?
Kat: Hokey, that’s what I meant, yeah.
Michael: Yeah.
Kat: She probably wouldn’t have been the type of person to make her elf punish herself. Or maybe she would have been, I don’t know. It’s hard to say. We don’t know if that brainwashing extends to all house-elves.
Michael: Hmm, yeah.
Leah: Like the ones in the kitchen we don’t see.
Kat: Right! Like the ones in the kitchens at Hogwarts. I doubt Dumbledore would allow them to hurt themselves in that manner.
Michael: Hmm, that’s interesting. That’s something I’ve always been interested to know, and I know Rowling… I’m sure she’s got it in her head and she hasn’t given that one out at all and I’d love to see more, but I feel like wizards probably subjected house-elves to this treatment because they are so powerful…
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: … because their magic, in many cases, seems to override wizard magic. And so, who better to oppress than somebody who’s more powerful than you? But interestingly, Leah had a point about that with the locket, because Kreacher mentions that he tried a few things on the locket.
Leah: Okay, so on page 197 of the US edition, it said,
“Kreacher tried everything, everything he knew, but nothing, nothing would work… So many powerful spells upon the casing, Kreacher was sure the way to destroy it was to get inside it, but it would not open…”
So I just wondered… I know we don’t know too much about house-elf magic, but what did he do to try and destroy the locket? And how could he tell that there were so many powerful spells upon the casing? Which implies that there’s more than one, and maybe he got this weird glimpse at how a Horcrux is made or what it is essentially.
Michael: Ooh.
Kat: Well, I think too that Kreacher’s opinion of it is also very much formed by the fact that he knows where it came from.
Michael: Hmm.
Leah: Yeah.
Kat: He knows that it was/is Voldemort’s locket. So I think that that informs quite a bit on how he feels and thinks and relates to trying to open it. As far as the magic, I am clueless, I have no idea. I have no theories on this, and I’ve thought about it a lot.
Michael: What we’ve seen before is that house-elves seem to have some spells in their arsenal that are almost like an upgraded version of a wizard’s. So they can Apparate, but they don’t have restrictions on their Apparating, and they can override wizard restrictions on it. And what I was thinking about was the idea that I’m imagining Kreacher probably tried… I’m figuring house-elves probably can unlock things that wizards can’t unlock. So he probably, I’m assuming, tried some advanced version of Alohomora. There are protective charms against Alohomora that were invented in, I believe, the Medieval Ages according to Book of Spells… because once they discovered Alohomora, wizards just started bursting in on each other and robbing each other…
[Kat laughs]
Michael: … so they had to combat that almost immediately. So I’m assuming there are ways to override that for a house-elf, but even that doesn’t work in this case because it takes something even more powerful than that to open this locket.
Leah: Do you think that this is maybe the turning point in Kreacher’s personality? Like maybe before this he was your average disgruntled house-elf…
[Kat laughs]
Leah: … and then this happens and he turns nastier because he can’t destroy it. He’s just going to hold on to it, and we know what this Horcrux does to people.
Kat: Hmm.
Leah: So do you think that had an effect on his personality over time? Because it was a long time.
Kat: I was going to bring that up; that’s a good point. I think so, especially partnered with the fact that he’s disappointed that he can’t follow through with his master’s orders.
Leah: Right.
Michael: Yeah. I’d assume if Horcrux magic affects house-elves, which we don’t have confirmation on…
Kat: But it’s a piece of soul inside of something – an evil piece of soul.
Michael: Yeah, but…
Kat: I know it’s strong magic, but I feel like that would affect even a Muggle.
Michael: Well, that ties in with the theory of “Did Harry as a Horcrux affect the behavior of the Dursleys?”
Leah: Oh, right.
Michael: Because that’s something that people have supposed. Which is something that I actually don’t like because it excuses the Dursleys’ behavior too much.
Caleb: Right.
Kat: Yeah, well, and also Harry wasn’t a true Horcrux, right?
Michael: Mhm. Yeah, Harry’s Horcrux is more like a sleeper agent.
Kat: Right.
Michael: It doesn’t really do anything until a certain point. But yeah, that’s interesting the idea that it would have an effect. Because then that opens up the idea that a Horcrux could affect all beings that we’ve met who have sentience, like Acromantulas, centaurs, mermaids… the possibility that a Horcrux could affect them as well. And we know that Voldemort has made temporary Horcruxes out of other living things that are not human. So that is possible. I was just wondering if that is something that bumps up against house-elf magic and there [are] defenses in house-elf magic for that but I suppose if a house-elf cannot break through a Horcrux or destroy one then it probably cannot combat one as far as the emotional toll that it would put on you.
Leah: Yeah.
Kat: And Kreacher also did not know what it was so even if he could do it he does not know it is a Horcrux.
Michael: No, no.
Kat: He just knows that it is a locket that Regulus wants him to destroy.
Michael: Well, I am supposing again that Kreacher has just advanced versions of all destructive spells that wizards have like Incendio and things like that that he probably tried on it but it did not work. Not terribly dissimilar from when the trio gets their hands on the locket and tries these things knowing they are not going to work. I really like that question about: Was that Kreacher’s turning point in his behavior? And I think based on his story it is implied that it was. Another set of characters who I was wondering about as far as their behavior was the Black family themselves because, of course, Regulus – as Hermione points out – was probably trying to protect his family and Kreacher from Voldemort by not telling them anything and giving Kreacher the specific order that he did of not to tell them what had happened to him. But just the thought, had the Black family discovered the truth behind Regulus’s death, do you think – because, of course, we see such a turnaround in Kreacher – do you think they would have changed their views on Voldemort? If they had known what he did to their son?
Caleb: I am leaning to no.
Michael: Really?
Caleb: Yes.
Michael: Why?
Caleb: I just feel that… I don’t know, the feeling I get from Walburga I just feel she would just be really disappointed. Maybe not disappointed but she would have been really upset and embarrassed about how this would affect the name of her family, putting his name out there as one of Voldemort’s leading Death Eaters and then turning and stain on the family and that is one of the things that she is the most worried about or upset about with Sirius.
Michael: I was wondering if maybe she would not have had a Narcissa moment only because Kreacher points out that she went full-on crazy after he disappeared and at least that is what he says and judging by his name, judging by his treatment by their family it would seem that Regulus was the… to put it in way that relates, he was the star. He really was their brightest star, her brightest star.
Kat: Dump-bump.
Caleb: Yes.
Michael: And again, would she have had that Narcissa-moment of her son wins over her devotion to her cause.
Caleb: Obviously as much as we see of her is very limited compared to Narcissa who is even… as much as we get of Narcissa is very little, but I just do not get that Narcissa-feel. I do not know what it is, really, that is leading me that way but I just do not get it there.
Leah: Yes, she is going to leave a portrait of herself that yells at people like that, maybe she is not the most nurturing of mothers.
Kat: I do not think they would have changed their ways but I think she would have done anything to get her son back. So I think she is the medium or the middle between the Mrs. Black of old and Narcissa. She wants her son back and she wants him to be loyal. That is what I think.
Michael: I raise the question only because the Harry Potter series so stresses the importance of choice and it is almost like in this particular unfortunate case the Blacks did not get that choice because they did not get all of the information. Of course, that was to protect their safety and that was based on a choice that Regulus made, but I just thought it was an interesting thing because this particular event, Kreacher does not seem to be the only one whose behavior after the fact was shaped by it. A lot of the Blacks seem to have been affected, for good or for bad, by this incident. So it was just something to ponder. I think even this stretches even to Sirius and his beliefs of his brother because of course as we know Sirius has no idea that this happened. And actually, Sirius somehow has an alternative account and believes that Voldemort killed – Voldemort and/or his Death Eaters killed – Regulus personally, which is very off the mark. But it’s not the line that we’re left with, it’s not the final line. The final bit of course has Harry sends Kreacher off to tail Mundungus who apparently is now ostensibly in possession of the locket. We’ll find out later that unfortunately is not so true or easy. I think the line that we’re left with, that’s probably one of the most striking from this chapter – and I think even more so considering the discussions we had about some of these characters – is Hermione’s line on page 198 that wraps up Kreacher’s story. And she says to Harry, she looks him in the eye and says… she doesn’t say I told you so, but this is her way of saying it. And it’s oddly… there’s a touch of cruelty in this line – but in a way I’m wondering if it’s justified or not – you guys can speak to it. She does say, [as Hermione] “I’ve said all along that wizards would pay for how they treat house-elves. Well, Voldemort did and so did Sirius.” [back to normal voice] And my what a line that is.
Caleb: And I think it is justified. And I think that it’s reinforced by the the way that he doesn’t respond to her in a way that he normally would had he felt that she was completely out of line. As we have seen him do before.
Kat: Mhm.
Michael: Yeah, I agree. I think it’s just… this has happened more over time with the fandom in general but I’ve always seen it as far as, if you put the Marauders in order, and of course this is fluctuated over time with fanfiction but I think almost all the time Sirius has been on the top, James and Remus switch places.
Kat: Order as in what?
Michael: As far as popularity and how beloved they are.
Kat: Oh, okay.
Michael: Sirius seems to always top that list. James and Remus fluctuate. It used to be James, I think Remus actually climbed a step above lately and Pettigrew is always at the bottom. [laughs] I think even through this discussion… I wouldn’t say I’ve knocked Sirius from his position. I’ve seen over the years that a lot of views on Sirius have changed and I think on Alohomora! we’ve been especially critical of Sirius’s behavior.
Kat: Yeah, I don’t put him on the pedestal that everybody does, personally. So…
Michael: He’s never been my favorite Marauder either.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: I mean not to say my favorite one doesn’t have his faults because we’ll get there. [laughs] We’re almost there.
[Leah laughs]
Michael: How painful it is.
Kat: We’re only one page away.
Michael: We really are. It’s horrible to think about. But I think the line is striking to me because I think Hermione came to this conclusion long before even the fandom did. She’s always been… she was always respectfully cautious of Sirius and she full out states it right here. It’s a big thing to be left with, big thought, because with that we’re going to be seeing just how big a role the house-elves are going to play as well as other people and creatures that Voldemort has considered beneath him throughout time. They are finally going to get their due. But for now, we’ll be waiting for Kreacher to return with that Horcrux and Mundungus Fletcher because that is the end of Chapter 10 of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
Kat: So now we jump into our Podcast Question of the Week for this episode and this whole chapter was about Kreacher’s tale and the locket and about Regulus and there’s one big part that was only barely touched upon so we’re going to go there for this week’s Question of the Week. Our question is, the story of Regulus and how he got the locket, and how Kreacher failed to destroy it, is revealed to all in this chapter. What is not revealed is what made Regulus change his tune and defy Lord Voldemort. There are a lot of theories as to this, of course, and there is implied evidence in this chapter that the treatment of Kreacher played a part in his decision ñ but as far as we can remember, it has never been elaborated on or confirmed by Rowling. So we want to know, what event do you think pushed Regulus over to the “light side”? Leave us your comments at alohomora.mugglenet.com or leave us an audioBoom and you just might hear your response on next week’s episode.
Caleb: And we want to take a moment to thank Leah for joining us for this week’s episode. Thanks so much for giving us your thoughts and insight. It was really great to have you on board.
Leah: Thank you for having me on. It was a dream come true.
Kat: Aww.
Michael: Well, and it was almost fate, wasn’t it? It all just worked out so well with your convention this week and… [laughs]
Leah: [laughs] Yes.
Kat: And hello to the random girl who’s listening, hopefully.
Michael: Yes. [laughs]
Leah: Yeah. [laughs]
Kat: The random girl that Leah met at the con.
Michael: Well, we know that she listens, just like J.K. Rowling.
[Caleb laughs]
Kat: Yes.
Michael: And Leah, you’re a pretty frequent… we know, of course, that you frequent the comments section. Is your username just Leah?
Leah: No. I’m HowlStone185.
Michael: Ah, yes. Perfect. Was that your Pottermore username?
Leah: Yes.
Michael: Ah.
Kat: Aww. RIP my Pottermore username.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: Good on you for…
Kat: Mine was so good! It was FireboltKey7. Hello, like…
Michael: Seven.
[Leah laughs]
Kat: I know! Most magical number…
Michael: Nice.
Kat: … it has a Firebolt, I don’t know. It just felt super magical to me. I’m bummed.
Michael: It speaks to how early on you were in to get single digits.
Kat: Beta, baby.
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: That’s good. Well, it was good that you preserved your screenname, Leah…
[Leah and Michael laugh]
Michael: … on our comments section. And if you listeners would like to come out of the comment section and onto the show, you can do that just by going to the “Be on the Show” page at alohomora.mugglenet.com, our main site.
Kat: Our completely revamped “Be on the Show” page, by the way.
Michael: Yes, our completely revamped… our page, as I said, pulled a Pottermore, but in a nice way, we hope. We hope you think so. It’s looking a little different, a little brighter. To be on the show, if you have a set of headphones with a built-in microphone or if you have a microphone of your own or even a computer with a built-in microphone, you are all set to go. We really don’t require any fancy equipment. You just need some recording software on your computer. And while you’re at alohomora.mugglenet.com trying to figure out how to be on our show, you can download a ringtone for free.
Kat: And in the meantime if you just want to keep in touch with us, you can find us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, facebook.com/openthedumbledore, we’re on Tumblr at mnalohomorapodcast.tumblr.com, and Instagram at @alohomoramn. Our phone number is 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287. And as we mentioned, you can always leave us an audioBoom. It’s free. All you need to do is go over to alohomora.mugglenet.com, press a little green button in the right-hand menu, and leave us a message, comment, question, concern, a song, whatever under sixty seconds, and we might play it on the show.
Michael: And, of course, we have our Alohomora! store where we have plenty of merchandise for you to take a look at. House shirts, we also have plenty of merchandise covered in some of our inside jokes. Some of the older ones that you might remember: Desk!Pig, Mandrake Liberation Front, Minerva is my homegirl, which was mentioned on the show a few times today, and so many more. You can check that out through alohomora.mugglenet.com.
Caleb: Also make sure to check out our smart phone app, which is available around the world. Prices may vary depending on location. It has a lot of great things like transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and much more.
Michael: And with that we’re just going to sit and wait for that Horcrux to come back.
[Show music begins]
Michael: Until then, I’m Michael Harle.
[Kat laughs]
Caleb: I’m Caleb Graves.
Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 160 of Alohomora!
Michael: [as Kreacher] Open the Dumbledore. Filthy, Mudblood-loving headmaster.
[Show music continues]
Caleb: I think about…
Michael: … what to believe…
Leah: … maybe before this he was…
Kat: … Rage Against the Machine…
Michael: … but… just a thought…
Caleb: … that he normally would…
Kat: … follow in Sirius’s…
Michael: … discussions about…
Leah: … middle names…
Michael: … and actually…
Kat: … aren’t their conversations mostly about…
Caleb: … variety in the…
Michael: … way they should be saying Voldemort’s name…
Kat: … in the fact that…
Caleb: … I think it is interesting, because…
Kat: … Harry…
Michael: … just happily assumed…
Leah: … a little ghost that’s not even a ghost…
Michael: … goes back into saying horrible things about…
Kat: … the Potters’ cat..
Michael: … is…
Caleb: … not…
Leah: … the third brightest…
Kat: … Hufflepuff…
Michael: … but…
Caleb: … I just feel…
Kat: … so cute…
Michael: … when…
Kat: … Bellatrix and Narcissa show up…
Caleb: … it’s like…
Kat: … she…
Caleb: … would probably do something…
Kat: …to Sirius, who…
Michael: … should be saying…
Leah: … I’m going to iron my fingers…
Michael: … for now…
Leah: … unless he was super, super observant…
Michael: … but…
Caleb: … mistress…
Leah: … immediately…
Michael: … defies a command…
Kat: … that…
Caleb: … after it’s all settled…
Leah: … maybe she’s not the most nurturing of mothers…
Michael: … and it’s very much that Voldemort was aware of that…
Kat: … and…
Caleb: … it’s like the choice…
Kat: … to hurt themselves in that manner…
Michael: … [as Hermione] and so did Sirius.
