Transcripts

Transcript – Episode 151

[“Lily’s Theme” plays]

Harry: Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still.

Hermione: For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent.

Ron: In this divine glass they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure.

Harry, Hermione, and Ron: This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal.

[Show music begins]

Caleb Graves: This is Episode 151 of Alohomora! for August 15, 2015.

[Show music continues]

Caleb: Hey, everyone! Welcome to our very first episode to discuss the very last book in the Harry Potter series, Deathly Hallows! I’m Caleb Graves.

Kat Miller: I’m Kat Miller.

Eric Scull: I’m Eric Scull. Gosh, there'[re] a lot of ones and fives in that, isn’t there?

Kat: There are. Wow.

Eric: Episode one-five-one, August one-five, 2015… anyway, I’m getting off topic. Our guest this week is Margie!

Margie Martinson: Hello, all! So happy to be on Alohomora!

Eric: Oh, gosh. Margie, please, tell us about yourself. What Hogwarts house are you?

Margie: I am definitely a Hufflepuff, through and through, and I’m also a part-time naturalist – used to be full time teaching nature education programs. And I just started last year at Halloween an online Etsy business called OwlPostGreetings, where I sell handmade greeting cards themed around Harry Potter, sci-fi, fantasy, and nature.

Eric: Whoa.

Kat: Awesome.

Caleb: That’s really cool.

Eric: I’m going to check out your Etsy shop [laughs] as soon as we get done here.

[Margie laughs]

Eric: I could always use more greeting cards.

Margie: I did just put up two new Minerva McGonagall cards…

Caleb: Yes!

Margie: … for a certain person on the show.

Caleb: Awesome. I definitely have to check those out.

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: Appreciate that.

Kat: How did you get into Harry Potter, Margie?

Margie: Well, I’ve always been an avid reader, but I’ve kind of been the person who stayed away from all the really popular stuff.

Eric: Yep.

Margie: And some friends were planning for us to go and see the first Harry Potter film, so I decided to read the book before the movie, and then before we even made it to the movie, I read the first three because I just couldn’t stop after the first one. [laughs]

Eric: Now, I have a question because I happen to know through our conversations prior to this recording that you are in the greater Chicago area.

Margie: Yes, I am!

Eric: I have to ask, where were you for the fifth Harry Potter book being released?

Margie: I unfortunately was on a work-related camping trip that I couldn’t get out of.

Eric: Oh, boo! Okay.

Margie: And everybody on the camping trips were Harry Potter fans, so at midnight, we went to the stores… apparently, everybody went to the stores on their own, picked up the books, and then all had to leave early the next morning for this work-related camping trip, and so any time we were not doing any group activity, we were all in our tents reading. [laughs]

Eric: Well, the reason I ask… I know we’re starting the seventh Harry Potter book today, but the fifth Harry Potter book, I happened to be in Illinois, so I thought we may have gone to the same big party.

Margie: No, I unfortunately didn’t get to go.

Eric: Nevertheless, it’s exciting to meet you now and talk with you now.

Margie: Yes.

Eric: Now as we mentioned just a moment ago, we are starting the seventh Harry Potter book, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, and we will be reading this week – or we have read, to discuss – Chapter 1, which is called “The Dark Lord Ascending.” So guys, this is it. This is the Harry Potter book. This is the final one. Book 7! How do we feel about this?

Caleb: Well, since it is my favorite book in the series, I am very pumped. I mean, it’s bittersweet, right? Starting off the last book of this discussion that started many, many moons ago. But I’ve been waiting for this for a very long time. I’m very excited.

Eric: It must be a nice feeling to be able to discuss your favorite Harry Potter book.

Caleb: It is. Indeed.

Kat: I’m definitely excited about it. It has been a long road to get here, and we still have a long way to go. But yeah, like Caleb said, it’s definitely bittersweet.

Margie: Yeah, for me, this was an incredibly emotional book. I thought J.K. did an awesome job of getting us to feel for the characters. The fear of what was going on, the uncertainty, and then just that unending camping and how hopeless they felt.

[Eric laughs]

Margie: And everything else I felt it all with them all the way along.

Eric: It’s funny you mentioned hopelessness. I was speaking with somebody today about Book 7 because it was prior to reading, and I was talking about the lack of direction that they may encounter later in this book is really a metaphor for the lack of direction that all of us encounter in our adolescence, trying to figure out what to do in the future. I do not know, it struck me as being very poignant for being the age that I guess I was when I read the last book. But I have my own issues with it, it is definitely not my favorite book. We will talk about all of those. It is wonderful to have this podcast to do that and there is a note here. Kat, would you like to talk about our movie watches?

Kat: Sure, a lot of listeners have been asking if we are going to do two movie watches and indeed, we are. We have discussed it and we decided that the first will occur after our discussion on Chapter 23, which is the “Malfoy Manor” chapter, which is when the movie splits. So it is about two thirds of the way through the book but we figured that the last third is really action-packed so that that was a good time to do it, so be on the lookout for that.

Eric: We just came off of our very successful, I would say, Half-Blood Prince, very enjoyable Half-Blood Prince movie watch and the book wrap shows, both very, very long episodes of Alohomora!

Kat: [laughs] They were.

Eric: [laughs] Very enjoyable to be a part of and I hope our listeners all enjoyed listening. It will be exciting to get to… I actually do think, in spite of what I said about Book 7 not being my favorite, I think the seventh and eighth films are among the most strong of the film entry, so I will definitely be looking forward to those adaptations.

Kat: I agree with that, but let us start this book, shall we? So we always like to start off by talking about the synopsis, the dedication, and our overall first impressions, memories about the book. But in true Kat fashion, I’d like to go over just a little bit of history as well.

Eric: Yay.

Kat: Yay.

[Sound of a thud and a cat yowling]

Kat: So as we all know the Deathly Hallows title was released to the public on December 21, 2006 by the little door on J.K. Rowling’s old website. It was Christmas-themed Hangman puzzle.

Eric: Miss that door, miss that hangman.

Kat: Yes, it was really great. I lament it constantly.

Caleb: That door was my life.

[Eric and Kat laugh]

Kat: Pretty much.

Eric: Was there anybody whose jkrowling.com was their website, their home page on their browser?

Caleb: I do not know, I think MuggleNet was still my home page, so…

Eric: Oh, yes.

Kat: Yes, mine too.

Eric: Aww. [laughs]

Kat: So behind that door along with the Deathly Hallows title we also got two other potential titles that Jo was considering at the time, so Harry Potter and the Elder Wand and Harry Potter and the Peverell Quest. So are we glad she picked the one she picked?

Caleb: Absolutely, especially those other… Those are fine titles but you have to wrap this story up. It is this whole thing working behind this battle against death so there is a lot of things that are really impactful about it being the Deathly Hallows, so I am glad with that decision.

Eric: Yes, especially if you look at the overall theme of the books being life and death. To have death in the title, I think I remember just feeling like it prepared us, for that we were going to be seeing more than one death per this book.

Caleb: Especially when the first book is all about, the first book title is extending life, not indefinitely but prolonging life and here we have the last book about challenging death.

Eric: That is really interesting.

Caleb: So I think it is appropriate.

Kat: I never thought of it that way before. That makes total sense.

Maggie: Yes, good point.

Kat: So on the night of the launch, the day of the book release, J.K. Rowling participated in an all-night book signing and reading at the Natural History Museum in London with about seventeen hundred guests – which is crazy – and then she embarked on a tour in October of 2007 over in the US, over here, and that included the famous Carnegie Hall in New York City where she said and proclaimed that Dumbledore is gay. So it has been almost eight years already since that has come out.

Eric: Yes, I remember being in London for Book 7 but it was not, unfortunately, where J.K. Rowling was. We probably could not get tickets. But there was a live MuggleCast podcast at Waterstones in Piccadilly Circus and we actually took out the third and fourth floor of that bookshop to all talk about the end of Harry Potter or in general what we thought was going to happen in the last book. And I just remember getting the book, seeing some of my best friends around me in tears because it was all ending and then going back to the hotel room and staying up all night reading it. That is my…

Kat: Oh, fond memories.

Eric: Fond memory. And in October, when Dumbledore was outed, I was in Australia at the time and I was not anywhere near New York but the news hit and it hit big and it was within an hour of that actually happening it was all over everywhere.

Kat: Yes, really the first big piece of J.K. Rowling news from that tour as well.

Eric: Yes, certainly like the first post-canon thing too that she has tried to do as well before Pottermore.

Kat: Well, I guess speaking of things coming out at events and trying to keep them a secret or not…

Eric: Oh, nice transition.

Kat: Oh, thanks. For Deathly Hallows Bloomsbury reportedly invested about ten million pounds in an attempt to keep the book and the book’s contents secure until the release date. In the week before its release, a number of texts that were purporting to be genuine leaks appeared in various forms. On July 16, a set of photographs representing all 759 pages of the US edition was leaked and fully transcribed prior to the official release date. The photographs later appeared on websites and peer-to-peer networks – not MuggleNet, for the record – and leads Scholastic to seek a subpoena in order to identify the source, which everyone remembers, that time of trying not to be spoiled for this book. Remember that?

Eric: It actually happened with Book 6 too. Maybe not in the same form but people working at MuggleNet, you just can’t not go to your email inbox.

Kat: Yeah.

Eric: And I remember one particular Kevin Steck received and read some of what was supposed to be Book 7. And the rest of us went back to the hotel room after the life event. All he needed to do was open the book to the first page, read the first few sentences to know that the copy he had been sent early was legit.

Kat: Oh…

Eric: He had [laughs] already read a good portion. I can’t remember if it was the whole book. But he had read a whole portion of Deathly Hallows prior to actually getting the book, because it turned out that whoever it was had actually had a leaked copy. But I fortunately was not spoiled at all. And i think most of us had a lot better experience than those poor people what we talked about recently in the line for the sixth book.

Kat: Oh, yes!

[Caleb laughs]

Eric: The seventh book we were able to come to the conclusion on our own, in our own way and that was quite special.

Kat: I’m surprised Kevin read those pages.

Eric: I am too. [laughs] I don’t know that dude sometimes.

Kat: I wouldn’t have read them personally.

Eric: He did. I think he wanted to know.

Kat: Needed to know, huh?

Eric: Yep.

Margie: I stayed away from anything other than the J.K. Rowling officially released stuff because you want that impact of reading it then.

Eric: Yeah. Absolutely.

Kat: Also as we all know Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows was and still is as of March of this year anyway the fastest selling book in history.

Eric: Woo-hoo!

Kat: I know it’s pretty great. It’s sold 8.3 million copies in the first 24 hours – that equates to about 96 books a second, or 345,833 books, an hour. Which…

Margie: Is pretty crazy.

Kat: … is crazy.

Eric: That math is staggering.

Kat: I know it’s insane. [laughs] Of course Jo also still holds the record for highest income for annual earnings for a children’s author. And she reached about 300 million between 2007 and 2008. And that was back in 2008. We know that she has since dropped off the list and gone back on the list and dropped off the list because of all the money she donates to charity, so…

Eric: Right.

Kat: And just one more stat here. As of June 2008, nearly a year after it was published worldwide, sales of the book were reportedly around 44 million. Crazy. That’s a lot.

Eric: Yeah, I can’t actually fathom 44 million books being in existence.

Kat: There must be weird stats somewhere about how high that stacks, or how many times you can wrap around the Earth.

[Eric laughs]

Kat: That must be somewhere on the Internet.

Eric: I feel like I can measure the book right now and figure that out. [laughs]

Kat: Go for it. You have until the end of the episode to figure it out.

Eric: Oh great, I don’t have a ruler.

Kat: Are you good at math?

Eric: I’m pretty good… I mean, I have a calculator.

Kat: Cool, there you go. So now we are going to talk a little bit about the descriptions for this book and the jackets. So as we all know, the US description is kind of a non-description. It says, “We now present the seventh and final installment of the epic tale of Harry Potter.” That’s it.

Eric: I have to say I was pleased with this US description. I wouldn’t have been if it were any other book…

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: … like we talked about how other countries or maybe even the UK description is sometimes lacking in previous books or just fails to capture the excitement that we Americans have for Harry Potter. But this one, they were just like, “Nope, we’re going to wrap it up, we’re not going to say anything and here you go. Here’s the book.” Like no summary could possibly live up to anybody’s expectations, it’s like, “Yep, here’s the final book. Here you go. You waited.”

Caleb: Yeah.

Margie: I completely agree and you just want to dive right into the book. I did not want to read the jacket flap. [laughs]

Eric: Yeah, if the summary of the book has been “Harry kills Voldemort after a long protruded battle”… that I don’t think anybody…

[Margie laughs]

Eric: … I wouldn’t have noticed because I went straight to the chapter.

Kat: Yeah, I can’t think of anything appropriate to write in the jacket pocket, without spoilers, and I think that’s the one big thing as we just I learned about that they were trying to avoid.

Eric: They should have just put “scar,” somewhere in the book.

Kat: They should have.

Caleb: I also don’t think they could have given a better description to make me start sobbing before I start reading the book.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Yeah, I need clear eyes to read this, thanks. Yeah it’s true. But actually, wait – so the UK actually had more than the US?

Kat: Yes, Eric. The UK description is actually significantly longer, it’s actually a few sentences. It says, “Harry is waiting at Privet Drive. The Order of the Phoenix is coming to escort him safely away without Voldemort and his supporters knowing. If they can. But what will Harry do then, how can he fulfill the momentous and seemingly impossible task that Professor Dumbledore has left him?”

Margie: I really don’t see much point to it. [laughs]

Eric: I don’t see a problem with it. [laughs]

Caleb: It’s definitely not spoilery, but…

Eric: It actually mirrors the Book 6 summery, if we are being honest.

Kat: I was just thinking that! Because it is only…

Eric: He’s waiting at Privet Drive, mention of Dumbledore.

Kat: It really only summarizes the first chapter, much like the Half-Blood Prince one does.

Eric: And we speculated weather or not… and I think it is confirmed that certain people only got the first chapter to be able to provide these summaries. I think only the US publisher… well, not the US publisher, but whoever was writing the descriptions.

Kat: And I just learned it is actually Arthur Levine for the US editions, by the way. I asked Cheryl and she confirmed, so…

Eric: Oh, that he wrote the summary or…?

Kat: He wrote the book jackets…

Eric: Oh, cool.

Kat: So I would think he would have the entire book.

Eric: Oh yes, he certainly does. The US has never suffered from inside into the entire books. I think it was the UK books that always lacked.

Kat: Yep.

Eric: In that.

Kat: So we will into the dedication now, which is very nice, it is in the shape of a lightning bolt.

Eric: Aww.

Kat: For those, I think… is it the same way for the UK one?

Eric: I’m not sure. I’m sure I have it… the UK book… somewhere.

Kat: I can’t imagine it would be different the dedication… but anyway…

Eric: Yep.

Kat: It says, “The dedication of the book is split seven ways: To Neil, to Jessica, to David, to Kenzie, to Di, to Anne, and to you if you have suck with Harry until the very end.” Aww, it’s sweet.

Eric: Split seven ways.

Kat: Which is… I’ll get to that in a second, which is funny. So, we have a little bit about all the dedications on MuggleNet, so I looked it up because I wanted to talk about here. It says, “The seven way split refers of course to some of those that Jo has shared her life with. So obviously Dr. Neil Murray is her husband, Jessica, David, and Mackenzie are her children, Di is Jo’s younger sister, and Anne, obviously Jo’s mother who died at the age of 45 from MS. And Jo’s mother obviously didn’t know about the books since she had died so early on, but Jo has said that her death had a profound influence on how the series was written. And the final dedication is obviously to all of us fans who have made Harry’s journey their own. And the seven way split refers to, obviously, the number of books in the series, and Voldemort’s Horcruxes, which he had split his soul into seven but really not because it’s really eight, so…

Eric: Yeah, but it’s cute. It’s really, really cute.

Kat: It is cute. I like it.

Eric: You know what’s not cute, though?

Kat: What?

Eric: Epigraphs.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: Was anyone surprised to see these in this book?

Eric: Yes. I didn’t know they were here! I must have skipped right past them the first time while reading. [laughs]

Kat: Wait, did you forget they were here?

Eric: Yes, absolutely. Hundred percent did not realize until I turned on my audio book of this chapter and Jim Dale started reading these poems, or these epigraphs, and I was just like, “What is he talking about?” I was waiting for, “Chapter 1: ‘The Dark Lord Ascending.'” And instead it was this quote from [pronounces “Ay-chle-sius”] Aeschylus…

Caleb: Aeschylus.

Eric: Aeschylus, thank you.

Kat: Good, thanks, I had no idea how to say that when I read it in a minute, so that’s good.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. But anyway, in general, this was the first time that… I think her Cuckoo’s Calling… maybe The Casual Vacancy even has these.

Kat: It does.

Eric: But I think it’s clearly the first Harry Potter book that had these.

Kat: Mhm. Well, let’s read and discuss for a minute, yeah?

Eric: Hmm, all right.

Kat: So the first one says, “Oh, the torment bred in the race, the grinding scream of death and the stroke that hits the vein, the hemorrhage none can staunch, the grief, the curse no man can bear. But there is a cure in the house, and not outside it, no, not from others but from them, their bloody strife. We sing to you, dark gods beneath the earth. Now hear, you blissful powers underground – answer the call, send help. Bless the children, give them triumph now.” Aeschylus, The Libation Bearers.

Eric: Hmm.

Kat: So what do we think about that?

Caleb: So for me, every time I read it, it seems to be… well, I think it’s pretty clear in the beginning that it’s dealing with death, so obviously that connects with the book. The line that always stands out to me is, ” But there is a cure in the house, and not outside it, no.” So that there is a cure to death, to this strife that they’re facing, but they can’t go outside the house; outside of a single space to find the cure. It has to be something within. And so that’s always symbolized Harry to me in my mind. And the last line, ” Bless the children, give them triumph now.” So Harry is the child who must be the cure to the death. So it’s all about [how] he has to be the answer and the sacrifice.

Kat: Wow, that’s deep. It’s true. Honestly, I never give them too much of a thought. I read them and was too excited to read the book. At least I noticed them, though, unlike Eric.

Eric: [laughs] You’re trying to raise yourself above. “He just ignored them flat out.”

Kat: [laughs] I mean, minimally, like one percent.

Eric: No, I think Caleb’s reading is the best that I’ve heard, so…

Kat: Mhm.

Margie: I looked it up online about this passage…

Kat: Oh.

Margie: … and it’s a Greek tragedy play.

Caleb: Mhm.

Margie: And the play actually revolves around this Cassandra who is a prophesier and was not believed and she actually gave the prophecy that caused this person to go; that he had to kill [and] avenge his father’s death, and stuff like that. But I just thought it was fitting that it was a Cassandra who was the Seer.

Caleb and Eric: Yeah.

Caleb So Cassandra in Greek drama is that person who is never believed, like you mentioned, and gave the warning but the warning was never heeded and it came to pass anyway. I hadn’t really thought about it in that context. I think that’s why Jo made a specific cut of the piece and put a very specific few stanzas here.

Kat: That is very specific, though, and we know Jo does nothing arbitrarily. Well, let’s read the second one. It says, ” Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent. In this divine glass, they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure. This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal.”

Eric: Huh.

Kat: William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude.

Eric: I really like this one for sure. And just the idea of, “The ones [who] die never truly leave us, Harry,” seems to be said in a little bit flashier way here.

Caleb: Yep.

Eric: So it’s about resurrection, I guess. Whether you believe that your friends will always be with you in your heart, or the literal resurrection using the Stone.

Kat: Hmm.

Eric: Yeah, I don’t know. [laughs] It’s an interesting way to start, as is the chapter, of course. But in general for me, it is not quite telling me as a first time reader of this book… though I’m not. But as a first time reader, it’s not telling me that this book will have anything happy to it at all. [laughs] The end of the book… it’s not like Book 6 ended with a lot of hope, but at least… there’s something very solemn about both of these quotes, about having them in the beginning of the book. It’s kind of like… I don’t know; it would put me off-kilter or maybe unbalance me a little bit in going in because both of the quotes focus heavily on death.

Kat: Mhm. And the beyond and, yeah, immortality.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, if I were reading so much into this that I thought Sirius might come back, it maybe would give me hope.

Kat: Hmm…

Eric: Because I was thinking they would revisit at some point the Ministry, which of course they do, but not in the way that I expected. [laughs] I was hoping for more Department of Mysteries stuff.

Kat: Yeah, that would have been nice.

Eric: I thought it’d be nice if Sirius came back, but it was not to be.

[Everyone laughs]

Eric: Okay, so let’s talk about Chapter 1 of the book now. If you are reading for the first time, cool.

Caleb: We’re about to ruin it for you.

Kat: [laughs] Pretty much.

Eric: Yeah, we do discuss these chapters using insight for how the overall has happened, and we quote sources from Pottermore and things that have happened since then, so please be forewarned, if any of you are out there. Yeah. Let’s talk about Chapter 1.

[Deathly Hallows Chapter 1 intro begins]

[Sound of crickets chirping and a gate opening]

Snape: Chapter 1.

[Sound of footsteps]

Snape: “The Dark Lord Ascending.”

[Sound of birds cawing]

[Deathly Hallows Chapter 1 intro ends]

Eric: So we always begin these chapters with a summary, and I wrote this one, so go easy on me. Two men, Snape and Yaxley, Apparate just outside the gates to Malfoy Manor. They enter the drawing room where an unconscious human figure is suspended above the table. Sitting down, Snape informs Voldemort of the protections surrounding Harry Potter. Voldemort asks Yaxley where they’re at on plans to overthrow the Ministry, and just so we’re sure that Voldemort is not an awesome guy, he takes the time to torture his own hosts, the Malfoys, and Charity Burbage, while spewing pure-blood hoopla.

Kat: Hoopla. Nice, nice.

Eric: Thanks.

Kat: It’s good. Good use.

Eric: Yeah, I tried. So in the fashion of previous Harry Potter books that have started without Harry or in perspectives that were otherwise, this continues that trend. And the first point here: The chapter starts with Snape, the character who was last seen, of course, running away from Harry following his murder of Dumbledore.

Caleb: And thank God she did start with him.

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: Can you imagine? We had all spent two years debating about him. Imagine if we had to wait several chapters to read about him.

Kat: Mhm.

Eric: And that was really the big thing. My question is if this chapter really gives away his intentions because there were books written about it. I mean, The Great Snape Debate: Borders tried to release – they did release – a book dedicated specifically to the loyalties of Severus Snape and evidence either way. If I remember correctly, the book was split in the middle and each side was upside down from the other.

Caleb: Oh my God.

Eric: So you could read all the evidence that he was a good guy against all the evidence that he was a bad guy. Whichever one you preferred, you could read and have some more evidence. So I just remember the whole Snape thing, obviously, following his murder of Dumbledore, was huge and now we see Voldemort, in this chapter, seating Snape at his right hand and Snape is betraying yet more information that’s basically about how to get Harry. In this chapter, isn’t Jo saying, “Okay, y’all, you wondered for two years about this. I think it should be clear that Snape is a bad guy.” Or is it still ambiguous?

Kat: I think she’s trying to lead us in that direction. I think she flip-flops a lot, which obviously is the point. But yes, I think right off the bat, she’s trying to get you to believe that Snape is a bad guy because otherwise, the reveal later on isn’t as impactful.

Caleb: It’s also the natural step, right? We see him running off with Draco, having just done Dumbledore in…

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: … and so the next step is to see how does he go from there. Obviously some time has passed, right? But the next step is for us, as readers, to see where he is with Voldemort and how he succeeded in getting back in the fold. The right hand man, even.

Eric: Well, I think, too, if Book 6 were Snape’s book, this book should be Voldemort’s book. This book should be the book… because Book 6 set up a lot of Voldemort and how he would fall, and this book, with this chapter, seeing him at full power, really, poised… he’s having discussions basically overthrowing the government of the wizarding world. He’s in pretty good shape. And so to see that power and prestige be slowly deconstructed throughout the book is something that I think this chapter hints at and is basically setting us all up for, as readers.

Caleb: Yeah.

Eric: And of course, you do actually see Draco as well in this chapter. They’re both obviously key players. But before we go on to the Malfoys and things, Snape is going out of his way to state accurately how Harry will be transported. We know this from future chapters, but Yaxley heard otherwise, I guess it is, or another wizard… no, another wizard, a squat wizard at the table says he has, basically, misinformation, which he got from Dawlish. And Snape actually says, “No, that’s false.” It’s not as if Snape is playing this game with any sort of hesitation. He is absolutely telling the whereabouts of Harry and he’s, I guess, going out of his way to put Harry in danger.

Kat: The quote that got me this time… I had to think about it for a minute because it’s been a while since I’ve read Deathly Hallows. It’s on page four – big page four – where Voldemort says, “Good. Very good. And this information comes…?” “From the source we discussed,” said Snape. I know we know who that is. Somebody remind me?

Margie: It’s Dumbledore’s portrait. You see it in the memories.

Kat: Snape is getting the information about where Harry is being transported by Dumbledore’s portrait?

Margie: Yes.

Eric: Huh.

Margie: Which leaves me to believe that somehow, maybe Order of the Phoenix members go in and say, “Snape, could you step aside? We need to go into the office and chat with Dumbledore’s portrait.”

[Caleb and Eric laugh]

Eric: I don’t know…

Margie: But you do see that in one of the memories. I did double check that before this podcast.

Eric: No kidding.

Margie: And it is one of the memories. But I’m not quite certain that that’s the source that Voldemort thinks Snape has.

Caleb: Right, right. Yeah. He would have to be saying something else. And also, to your question, Eric, that Snape is giving the legit information, we also don’t know that yet at this point, right? So here, I still think, as readers, we’re inclined to believe that Snape is the correct one as far as which of the Death Eaters has the right information, but I remember the first time reading, I was still guessing, and I think that increases that, “Whoa, what’s going on?”

Eric: What’s it going to be?

Caleb: Is he telling the truth, or is he actually about to screw Voldemort over?

Kat: Okay, then who does Voldemort think Snape is getting this information from?

Margie: I don’t think that’s ever confirmed.

Caleb: Yeah, I don’t think so.

Eric: I don’t know.

Caleb: My guess is that… I was thinking about this, and I don’t think there’s anyone in the Order [whom] Voldemort would think he could get reliable information from unless… I thought of two things: 1) that he’s paying off Mundungus Fletcher or [2)] that he has used the Imperius Curse on someone.

Margie: Yeah, that was my guess, that he was Imperius-ing and questioning someone on the staff who’s a member of the Order of the Phoenix.

Eric: And now that Snape has killed Dumbledore, it’s not as though the rest of the Order would talk to him and volunteer that sensitive information.

Caleb: Because all of them still think he’s bad.

Eric: Yeah, I mean, unless he’s somehow hidden the fact that they know that he was the one who killed Dumbledore, then I don’t think it’s very realistic that he would be getting that information from any of the Order members, really.

Kat: Well, now that Caleb said Mundungus, it was Mundungus’s idea – right? – to do the Seven Potters?

Eric: Perhaps.

Margie: I believe so.

Kat: I believe so. Okay, so that would mean… I guess Mundungus is entirely plausible because he’s, I guess, not afraid to go to the Dark side a bit.

Eric: That Mundungus, though… it could be. I don’t know.

Kat: I think that’s the only plausible source unless it’s somebody [whom] we just don’t know about. Or somebody [whom] we’re forgetting, and the listeners are going to scream at us.

Eric: Yeah, perhaps we’re forgetting… won’t dwell too much on it, but we shall indeed move on. So we talked about Snape. Let’s talk about where he is: He is at Malfoy Manor, which, for the first time in seven Harry Potter books, we finally get to see. This is something where… I mean, Malfoy Manor has been mentioned before, if you realize Dobby served there first. He used to serve the Malfoys, and Harry has at times sent Mr. Weasley to go […] check under the drawing room floor. And now we’re in the drawing room. We’re actually there. There'[re] peacocks strutting around, there'[re] large wrought iron gates, and [there’re] lots and lots of hedges.

Caleb: And fun fact: The Malfoy Manor is in fact halfway between King’s Cross station and Hogsmeade station according to Universal Orlando.

[Caleb, Eric, and Kat laugh]

Eric: Yeah, yeah, it’s very strategically located. Draco is actually going out of his way to board the train.

[Caleb laughs]

Eric: But no, no, in general, does Malfoy Manor, and I’m not even talking about the film adaptation, which of course looked good… but does it live up to expectations? Is there enough of it here to be like, “Oh, yeah, these guys are living pretty well,” or what are your thoughts on this setting for the opening of this book?

Kat: Well, I think peacocks… it’s funny, because Yaxley says, “He always did himself well, Lucius. Peacocks!” But… I kind of live in the country, and my friends have neighbors who have peacocks, and they definitely don’t live in a big manor like this, so this time around, that made me laugh quite a bit.

Caleb: I think it’s because it’s an albino one, right? So it just seems like…

Eric: Yeah. Pure white peacocks?

Caleb: Yeah.

Kat: It could be.

Eric: So it was a rare breed of peacock.

Caleb: Yeah, it’s super exotic. It seems like it’s very rare. That’s always the feel I got from it.

Eric: The thing about the Malfoys in this chapter, though, is that for as albino as the peacocks are, they are said to be even paler. There’s no direct correlation between them and their peacocks except to say that Lucius is described as being very pale. Draco, I think at one point, falls off of his chair, and this family… their home is host to all of the Death Eaters. This is the headquarters for Voldemort, and if you notice some of the protections that have been placed around.. for instance, on the gate, they have to… basically – I think this is determined later – you need a Dark Mark to enter.

Kat: Yeah. They hold up their arms as they walk through, which is really cool.

Eric: Yeah. That’s pretty cool.

Kat: It reminded me of the spell that was put on the staircase up to the Astronomy Tower at the end of the last book.

Eric: Oh yeah, actually, that’s probably the same spell, now that you mention that. I would not have remembered that had we not just read that chapter.

Kat: I just like that they walk through wrought iron gates. It’s like…

Eric: “… like smoke, like passing through smoke. Like catching smoke with your bare hands.”

[Eric and Kat laugh]

Margie: One thing I saw when I read that is that with the way that it’s written, that they raised their left arms as in a salute, I couldn’t help but think of the Nazis saluting Hitler.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. I think that word is chosen very carefully by Jo.

Kat: I think so too.

Eric: I wouldn’t disagree. So as I mentioned earlier, the conversation that they’re having about actually overthrowing the Ministry is actually a little bit frightening because you always imagine Voldemort as being hellbent on world domination, but now we’re actually starting to see it. Now we’re seeing… they’re basically opening up… all of the Death Eaters have little date books, and they’re opening them up…

[Kat laughs]

Eric: … and the one Death Eater is like, “How’s next Saturday for you?” and Voldemort is like, “Hmm. Well, next Saturday. I’m not sure we can do it by then, hmm… perhaps we should get Potter while he’s traveling.” It’s just like this big meeting about killing the Minister [of] Magic! This is the most important ex-Auror wizard in the entire wizarding world, and they have now infiltrated. I mean, just the fact that they’re all able to laugh, all the Death Eaters are able to laugh about the Order being correct, that they’ve infiltrated the Ministry is actually a bit terrifying, and I think the fact that it’s underplayed, or played in such a jovial way where they’re all laughing about it, is supposed to be a little bit more unnerving than if you were to hear it from the Order’s side of things.

Caleb: And also because it’s being done in such an organized way, right? Voldemort has considered the timeline of it, not being able to get it done within a certain amount of time, not going after the Minister [of] Magic without everything being in place. He’s very methodical about what he’s doing, which is not really a side to him we’ve gotten to see before.

Margie: I think he learned a lot his first attempt.

Eric: He says as much. The Dark Lord… [laughs] I guess I get tired of calling him Voldemort.

[Kat laughs]

Eric: The Dark Lord is… really, he refers to his past mistakes where it comes to Harry, and he actually, I guess, reprieves them of any blame by saying that he himself is most at fault for the fact that Harry still lives. So he simultaneously wants to be the one to kill Harry and realizes the problem that that poses to, I guess, his plans.

Kat: Do you really think he’s giving his Death Eaters a reprieve?

Eric: Well, I think the dialogue, really, would support. He seems to… from what I recall, the dialogue says that each of them expected to be blamed for the fact that Harry was still out there, and he does not lay blame on them. So I would say that’s pretty generous considering the band’s all together, and they could totally… there could be more deaths in this chapter. I honestly think that Voldemort is quite happy because he has a plan, because he has what he believes to be reliable information for the stomping out of Harry Potter, that he is feeling generous. It’s like the Voldy hug in the movie.

[Eric and Kat laugh]

Eric: I think he’s feeling generous right now, and he’s not in the mood to necessarily torment any more than just the Malfoys.

Kat: See, I read it the opposite. The whole diatribed couple of paragraphs where he’s talking to himself, I read it more as him… what’s the right word? Not… obviously, he’s blaming himself, but more like he’s amping himself up to finish it and finish it soon and proper and no more effing around. “I need to do this. I don’t care what it takes. I don’t care what I have to do or who[m] I have to eff over.” I mean, not that he didn’t think that before, but I saw this more as a pep talk, to be honest.

Margie: I saw in this… one thing that I noticed is, Voldemort seemed to want to keep them right on the edge. He starts that conversation off like, “You folks have failed me. It’s my fault.” Then he turns to Bellatrix, and he praises her, and then he says, “Yeah, but you’re niece just married a werewolf.” And she winds up almost in tears and horrified, and then he says, “Well, we just need to cut off the diseased part of our family tree,” and she’s like, “Yeah.” And then she feels all better again. And he seems to keep playing with everybody, all of his Death Eaters, as he gives them just enough praise to build them up, and then right when he gets them on the edge, he slams them down and then builds them back up again. It’s like a cat playing with mice.

Kat: Yeah, it’s a sick version of a pep talk, really.

Eric: Well, and it’s interesting that he wants to get this over with with Harry at the beginning of the book, which we know takes him until the end of the book to actually accomplish. But he’s planning to strike quite early into the school year. [laughs]

Kat: He is.

Eric: That’s against type for him.

[Kat laughs]

Eric: I will say [that] we got a voicemail on this subject that we’d like to play now from Jake Ponser, and is regarding Death Eaters and Harry. So let’s have a listen.

[Audio]: Hey, Alohomora! It’s Jake Ponser here from the main site. During my read of the new chapter for Deathly Hallows, I thought of something that I’d never really considered before. That is how absolutely horrible all the Death Eaters in this chapter must feel about Voldemort’s obsession with Harry. They’re all just sitting around this table, listening to Voldemort [unintelligible] about how Harry Potter must die and how he himself must do it. But it feels annoying and maybe even disappointing for them. They probably all got on board with Voldemort and his cause because they either hate Muggles like he does, or maybe they just want a position of power when he takes over the world since he’s such a powerful wizard, but unfortunately for them, Voldemort is obsessed with killing Harry, who really poses no threat to him. So all these Death Eaters who either hopped on board either a few decades ago when he first came into power or right after his rebirth in Book 4 are following the orders here of paranoid psycho who will do anything to kill just a 16-year-old. They’re reduced to henchmen in this completely useless task. In fact, I’m a bit surprised, now that I look back on it, that no one bails out on Voldemort at any point and that no mutinies take place. He’s a really powerful, but he’s just one guy, and it really seems like only Bellatrix is really devoted enough to him to sit by his side if all the Death Eaters rose up. So I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this, and I look forward to your reread of the book. It’s my favorite one of the series. Thanks.

Eric: So what do we think?

Caleb: I think it’s a good point, right? I hadn’t ever really thought about it like this before, but I… so we brought up just a second ago Voldemort’s monologue. I don’t know. You probably wouldn’t call it a monologue, but where he’s answering himself about the past problems being more about his mistakes than Harry’s success, and it’s really just been Harry’s luck. Thinking about it now, yeah, he seems way too focused on Harry and not so much about the mission that a lot of these Death Eaters joined up for. It would’ve been interesting to maybe get a little side conversation of a couple of them saying, “Gosh, he’s going at it again.”

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: “What did we sign up for?”

Eric: “Can you believe this guy?”

Caleb: And then he walks into the room, or better yet Bellatrix walks into the room, and they all hurry to silence themselves or something.

Eric: For me, I think, at least for probably half of these Death Eaters in the room, including Lucius, Harry has personally thwarted them. I mean, I really think at this point, the battle against Harry would have more support than it would have had at the beginning. I mean, then again, Harry is the one who made the Dark Lord go away for that whole time. So I think his supporters would naturally want to thwart the boy. I think at some point, the fact that he continues to escape would maybe make them give him a pass and be like, “Let’s just move on to other things.” But the fact that Harry has personally caused, for instance, Lucius’s arrest and all of the trouble in the Ministry, I think now more and more Death Eaters would actually be for the cause of destroying Harry, so long as they can be part of a plan that seems like it’s going to work.

Kat: Yeah, that makes sense. Harry’s definitely added to the list of people who hate him at this point, at least in the Death Eater camp.

Eric: Yeah, and knowing that this plan seems to be pretty strong, or the evidence seems to be pretty strong that they can go really soon and kill Harry… maybe that’s just… I think there’s probably more acceptance and agreement in this room than there maybe would’ve been years before.

Kat: And we do learn that it’s not exactly easy to leave Lord Voldemort’s camp, as they say…

Eric: Yeah.

Kat: … just because when we hear Regulus’s story…

Margie: Yeah, the only way out is death.

Kat: Pretty much.

Eric: So we hope that answered your question, Jake. Thank you for sending in your voicemail. We’ll tell others how you can send in voicemails. It’s kind of fun to play those on the show. So that will be at the end, but I wanted to bring up… so guys, we were all recently at GeekyCon in Florida, and while I was there, I attended this panel on Peter Pettigrew. And it was very interesting. It was about whether there’s any sympathy at all that can be reserved for him. And without going into too much detail, I have to – suffice to say, Peter Pettigrew’s been on my mind these last ten days or so, ever since coming back – and so I had to ask… Peter Pettigrew appears in this chapter actually. Voldemort calls on him, and here’s a direct quote from the book. So he says – this is after they hear a scream from down below, and Voldemort asks whether or not he’s supposed to keep our guest quiet. He says,

“‘Yes, m-my Lord,’ gasped a small man seated halfway down the table, who had been sitting so low in his chair that it had appeared, at first glance, to be unoccupied. Now he scrambled from his seat and scurried from the room, leaving nothing behind him but a curious gleam of silver.”

So apart from playing up this silver hand that he’s got, which I believe some of the prominent theories were all that it would play a very big role in this book. Just knowing that Pettigrew is sitting, slumped, kind of half-down in his chair, is this a metaphor for him being over his head? Does he not really want to be there? What exactly is this situation here?

Kat: Yes. All of the above, yes.

Eric: Okay.

[Kat laughs]

Eric: But does that give you guys any sympathy for him, the fact that he’s attending this Death Eater meeting where Charity Burbage, this teacher at Hogwarts, is being tortured and killed? The fact that he’s there should indict him to endless lack of empathy, but do we feel sorry for him or should we feel sorry for him, the fact that he clearly is too weak to stand up and go away and do something else with his life?

Kat: Yeah, I agree. He put himself there as far as I’m concerned. You dig your own grave, so… [laughs] and he kind of did, didn’t he?

[Eric laughs]

Margie: He wanted to be near the power, and that’s what he got. And he betrayed friends…

Eric: Twice.

Margie: … and saw through that they got killed, and he doesn’t seem to have really done anything at all to try and redeem himself, really. And I think he just knows the only way out is death, so he’s just stuck trying to hide in the shadows and not be noticed.

Kat: Did anybody actually defend Pettigrew at that panel you went to?

Eric: There was a lot in that panel…

Kat: Really?

Eric: … in the short period of time. I think it was mostly people trying to see… because he does not gain a whole lot of pleasure from the dark deeds, and he joined Voldemort more out of fear than out of believing in his cause. Perhaps he’s a more sympathetic character than certain other Death Eaters.

Kat: Well, okay, yes. Than other Death Eaters, he is, but he’s still vile.

Eric: Yeah. Well, one of the things that came out of it…

Kat: [laughs] He’s still terrible.

Eric: I mean, he betrayed Harry, the Potters, and everybody not just once but twice. He is the entire reason Voldemort was found and resurrected and can exist through this torture. So it’s just interesting that Jo still has in the beginning of this book that description of him as having to basically not want to be there. But then again, maybe it’s just commenting on the larger picture, which is that even the Malfoys don’t want to be there and it’s their own darn house.

Kat: Mhm.

Eric: So maybe it’s just that once they’ve all finally gotten what they wished for in Voldemort’s return to power, they realize that it’s kind of a bitter pill to swallow.

Kat: I was a really shy kid in elementary school, and so I was that person sitting at the back of the class, slumped down…

Eric: Aww.

Kat: … as low as possible just so [the] teacher wouldn’t see me. And I think that’s part of it here: I think he’s just trying to disappear. And he doesn’t want Voldemort to remember that he’s there or talk to him or look at him or expect anything from him.

Margie: “I am in my room making no noise and pretending that I do not exist.”

[Eric laughs]

Kat: Exactly.

Caleb: Nice analogy.

Eric: Let’s keep going with the Wormtail/Harry parallels here, if we can while reading this book. I don’t have a feeling there’d be a great amount of them.

[Caleb and Kat laugh]

Eric: I’m starting to think about Wormtail in ways I never had before – actually, just in general, more than I ever have before, so we’ll say that. Then, of course… so the discussion moves on to this very hypocritical, pure-blood mania. And we find out that actually the reason that Charity Burbage has been brought here is not only because she’s a teacher at Hogwarts and is a Muggle Studies professor, but because she recently practiced her freedom of speech and freedom of press in writing an article that was incendiary to Voldemort’s sensibilities – I guess, is a way to say it. And I have to say, if she had known that Voldemort’s mom basically married a Muggle, then she should have used her dying breath to say that in front of everybody and really point him out. But it’s pretty scary, the conviction that Voldemort has, just in some of these words and some of what he says to his fellow Death Eaters about having to excise the tumor and remove all the stains from the wizarding world in general. This is something that this guy is actually preaching right now, and I guess it took me aback because for me, I’m thinking of Voldemort as more calculated, less just about blood purity because that seems ridiculous. And even he says and admits to the blood being diluted a little bit throughout the years, which I think Arthur Weasley or Dumbledore had said, “out of necessity.” So, it’s weird for him to be on this soap box here about this, but he is and he uses it as a reason to kill Charity. So, what are you guys’ reactions? The other books have death at the very back half. This book has death in the first chapter.

Kat: I find it odd that that’s the reason Charity is there. I feel like there has to be some other hidden reason. I mean, there is probably more than one person in the world who’s ever written an article about wizards marrying Muggles. Why her? Why Charity?

Eric: Yeah.

Margie: I think that has to do with the audioBoom from Hufflepuffskein.

Eric: Oh, somebody’s been reading the doc.

Margie: Yes.

Eric: [laughs] So we did manage to get a very clever, very interesting audioBoom, which I guess we’ll bring up now – from Leah, Hufflepuffskein – and let’s actually play it. This is directly related to what we’re talking about right now.

[Audio]: Hi all, this is Leah, or Hufflepuffskein. I haven’t been commenting in awhile, but I’m really glad to be back. I had a bit of a comment/question for the upcoming chapter discussion, Chapter 1 of Deathly Hallows. And really, it’s concerning Charity Burbage and how oh-so-awful it is to be witness to her murder in this chapter. But I’ve been wondering: is she there, and is the sort of extravaganza of her torture – I suppose, in Voldemort’s mind – is it a test for Snape? Is it in Voldemort’s view a way to see what Snape’s reaction will be to this person who is supposedly his friend, as she says, and to really see whether he’s on their side or not and whether he’s going to try to save her or flinch or something? I’ve always seen this as more than anything, Voldemort getting his kicks off by killing someone but also looking for Snape’s reaction. Love to hear your thoughts.

Eric: So is this murder a further test for Severus Snape?

Caleb: I mean, maybe. But does Voldemort really think that this would be the thing that would make Snape flinch? I guess Snape doesn’t have many things he’s protecting in life anymore other than himself. So I don’t know. Trying to think… trying to put myself in Voldemort’s shoes if this would be the thing, that some other teacher… that would probably be easy for Snape if Voldemort did suspect him, it may be easy for Snape to just let her die. I don’t mean to say that callously, but it may be easy for Snape to let her die to keep his cover up. I don’t know if this would be the best test.

Kat: Yeah, it makes me wonder what evidence there is that the two of them got on at all, except for the fact that they were both teachers at Hogwarts. I’m not sure… if that’s what Voldemort is using Charity for, even marginally, how effective is it? Were they actually friends?

Eric: Yeah. Also, I feel like he’s not really focused on Snape’s reaction here. He’s focused on his own pure-blood mania, all the stuff he’s spewing, that’s coming out of his mouth rapid-fire about how pure-bloods are going to one day rule the world. And I think furthermore, just the fact that Severus when he first came in, when he and Yaxley first came in and [Voldemort] said, “Severus, right here”, gesturing to the seat immediately to his right, sitting at the right hand of Voldemort, “Oh, and Yaxley, you sit down there somewhere” – the other end of the table – it’s ridiculous how much he values Snape. I would say Snape already succeeded. I would say that the death of Dumbledore at Snape’s hand has absolutely, without a doubt, solidified his position in Voldemort’s hierarchy, and that no further tests are necessary at all. Not even a little bit.

Margie: Well, I’m going to counter that. In the book, Voldemort specifically says, “Do you recognize our guest, Severus?” And by having him sitting directly next to him, he can very closely see his expressions. And he specifically… when he goes to kill her, she’s pleading to Severus and she does so three times. And it says, “Tears were pouring from her eyes into her hair. Snape looked back at her, quite impassively, as she turned slowly away from him.” And then it’s Avada Kedavra. So Voldemort waited to see Snape’s impassive face, and as soon as he saw it, that’s it, it’s over. The torture is over.

Eric: Well, huh… okay, I like that. I like that a lot. I like that a lot, what you just said there. But also, couldn’t it be that he is championing his most loyal supporter, Snape because he wants to see the pain in Charity’s eyes when his man Snape does not do anything to stop her death? Isn’t it that he is so supremely confident in Snape at that moment that he can torture this woman in yet another way?

Caleb: Yeah, he’s pulling Snape into his little joke: “We’re about to kill this lady. Let’s watch her go.”

Eric: Yeah.

Kat: Mhm.

Eric: Playing with his food before he eats it.

Caleb: Yeah. That’s how I read it, but I definitely see your point. I think intentionally, probably it can be read quite a few ways.

Kat: Mhm.

Eric: That’s really interesting.

Kat: There is a line supporting your theory, Eric, because it does say there’s no mistaking the anger and contempt in Voldemort’s voice, which I think wouldn’t be there if he was testing Snape. Although, I’m still like 70/30 on it.

Caleb: Before we get away from it, also just the parallel of the language that she uses: “Severus, please.”

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: Obviously we just experienced that at the end of Half-Blood Prince.

Eric: Ugh, yeah.

Kat: Yeah, very different type of pleading: Dumbledore pleading to kill him because he needed to, and Charity pleading Severus to save her. Very, very different, but the same.

Margie: I have a comment. Charity Burbage teaches this class on Muggle Studies, which is an elective, so probably the only students [who] are signing up for it are the ones who are Muggle-friendly, like Arthur Weasley. But I was actually thinking that they could probably really use a mandatory class for all first-year students [who] are Muggle-born or raised, like Harry, on the wizarding life so that they would have more common ground with their wizarding classmates who grew up in that. Harry is completely shocked all the time by… there’s wizarding radio, there’s wizarding children’s fairy tales…

Eric: [laughs] Well, I was shocked. To be fair, I was shocked that there was a MuggleCast reference. Oh, sorry, I mean “wizarding radio” in the Harry Potter books.

Caleb: [laughs] Okay.

Kat: Wizarding 101, so to say.

Margie: But it could help those students to fit in better with the wizard-born ones so they didn’t feel so outside of the group.

Eric: No, I like… I mean, I think in general, Muggle Studies as we would imagine it should be compulsory or should be… more people… we see examples, especially in Book 4, about how wizards could benefit from understanding Muggles a little more, that the entire wizarding world has completely the wrong idea about certain things Muggle-related, and so that course should actually be far more prominent. The fact that we’ve never heard of Charity Burbage, never seen her name even in a passing mention before, shows that – I don’t know – maybe Dumbledore isn’t doing his due diligence as Headmaster to give that class the proper light that it should receive. Because I think people should know a lot more about the much wider, much larger world of Muggles.

Kat: And how badly do we want Jo to write a book from a perspective of a wizard who knows nothing about Muggles teaching about Muggles? Oh, lord.

Eric: [laughs] Probably pretty badly.

Kat: If Arthur Weasley wrote the book, it’d be amazing.

[Margie laughs]

Eric: No, but yeah. I mean, no, I agree, Margie. I mean, having children… what I first thought you were going to say is actually for the Muggle-born children, having them still continue some sort of education about the wider world because we were talking about how people go to Hogwarts have – what? – a fifth-grade reading level and math level, and every other thing is stunted to the age that they were when they first went to Hogwarts because Hogwarts doesn’t have the Gen Eds of math, science, and writing and all of that other stuff, that it’d be interesting to continue some of that in some form.

Margie: Yeah, I’ve just always imagined that all the wizarding-born children are homeschooled, and they’re learning whatever their parents teach them, so they all come into Hogwarts with an extremely limited view of [not only] the wizarding world [but also] the Muggle world.

Eric: Well, if you look at the Weasleys, I mean, the Weasleys are obviously our example of a wizarding-born and -raised family, and I mean, I guess they were raised in sort of a bubble or a shell. I mean, because they do react… I mean, Ron doesn’t know how to use a telephone, there’s some other stuff; I’m trying to rack my brain about stuff in the beginning of the Harry Potter books. But I really wonder… I’ll pose the question of how many other Charity Burbages exist at Hogwarts [whom] we’ve never heard of but [who] teach different subjects. For instance, we know about Professor Sinistra, who teaches Astronomy, but I think we only get one class ever.

Kat: Or Vector, right? Professor Vector.

Eric: Oh, Vector, yeah. Some other ones. So…

Margie: Yeah, I get the feeling there'[re] a lot more classes there, but just because we hear the entire story from Harry’s perspective, if he wasn’t interested in it, we didn’t hear about it.

Kat: Well, doesn’t Hermione take every subject in the third year?

Eric: She takes… yeah, that includes, I think, Muggle something, right?

Kat: Muggle Studies. Yeah, she does.

Margie: Yes, she does take the Muggle Studies class. But who knows: Were there other electives that were available fourth year and fifth year that she just didn’t bother with?

Eric: The choir. [laughs] Probably.

Kat: True. Choir. Art class with Dean Thomas. [laughs]

Eric: Yes! [laughs] Yeah, I don’t know.

Margie: Well, wasn’t there something that Celestina Warbeck’s mother insisted upon [in terms of] the school giving some sort of outlet for Celestina’s talents and stuff like that for her to be able to sing and act and everything?

Eric: I don’t remember that at all, but that would be cool.

Kat: Michael is the one to ask about that, if it’s Celestina.

Margie: Yeah, that was on the backstory of Celestina Warbeck [that] was released on Pottermore. I remember that being in there, that her mother was pushing the school to create these outlets for her daughter to shine in.

Eric: Hmm. I mean, overall, this chapter, I think, is really a grouping together of the bad guys as they go on their quest to basically achieve world domination. And it’s a short chapter; all the first few chapters are actually just a couple [of] pages long, don’t take too long to read, but they accomplish the setting of the story. It’s just I don’t… do you guys feel like it properly excites you for Voldemort’s attempted takeover? Do you feel…? Is your blood already rushing for to get to the final battle when you’re reading this? Or what are your thoughts on the chapter as a whole?

Margie: Oh, I’m just terrified of what’s going to happen here.

Caleb: Yeah, I think it does a really good job of creating this very dark atmosphere, but it doesn’t give away too much. You don’t really know what’s going to happen beyond this attack on Harry. I mean, we probably have a pretty good idea that it’s not going to work, or else this book would be about 50 pages.

[Caleb and Kat laugh]

Caleb: So yeah, it sets up… we’re getting the most of Voldemort we have, probably, in a single moment, and the fact that it’s the beginning of the book tells us there’s a lot of scary moments to come.

Kat: Yeah, it sets a good tone for sure. I was just thinking about – we’ve talked about this a few times – the circle theory within a book, and do you think the opposing chapter for this would be the last chapter or the epilogue?

Eric: Ugh.

Kat: Yeah, tough one.

Eric: I’m not sure, and I don’t know the chapters well enough to be able to have sort of an educated guess, but I definitely think that this stuff with the Malfoys plays itself out throughout the whole book. Or at least comes into importance again at the end of the book, when Narcissa betrays Voldemort. It’s something that… her movements, her motions to Lucius beneath the table in this chapter are showing they’re of a remarkably sound mind in rejecting some of the ways that Voldemort is handling everything.

Kat: Well, I guess the only reason I asked is because the only thing we didn’t touch on a whole lot is Lucius’s wand and everything. And the opposite chapter of this… there'[re] 36 chapters, so I believe it would be [Chapter] 36 since [the] epilogue is part of the story but not part of the story. And that’s “The Flaw in the Plan,” where Harry explains the whole reason why the wands never worked, so…

Eric: Oh. Okay.

Kat: But that’s really the… I mean, I’ve just been flipping through the last chapter quickly, and that’s the only thing I can really come up with other than Bellatrix being creepy as hell in that last chapter, so…

[Eric laughs]

Kat: But she’s like that all the time, so…

Margie: I did look up […] Lucius’s wand, which is elm with dragon heartstring, and on Pottermore, the elm is said to be very popular with pure-bloods. It prefers presence, magical dexterity, and native dignity and is very good with flamboyant spells. And dragon heartstring is the most powerful of all the wands and creates a strong bond with its owner and is the easiest to turn to the Dark Arts. And it’s just like, “Nailed it.” [laughs]

Caleb: I think that’s perfectly fitting.

Eric: Yeah, I like that, and I like that they… it’s mentioned that at Malfoy Manor, there are bushes of yew, and yew is Voldemort’s wand wood. That was pretty cool.

Kat: Oh, it says that in the description?

Eric: Yeah, right… it’s one of the first paragraphs where they’re walking past the bushes. It’s described that they’re…

Kat: Wow. I totally missed that.

Margie: Yeah, and yew is the tree that’s associated with death.

Kat: Oh, yeah. “The yew hedges muffled the sound.” Oh, yeah, look at that. Oops.

Eric: I really like… not to talk about the movie adaptation too much, but the Lucius wand scene in the film and the book happens differently. And in the book, his wand is not in his cane. [laughs] It’s just in his pocket. I like how Jo, even by Book 7, was able to, in her head, keep them a little bit separate. But I mean, both are interesting. But this… was there something you wanted to say, Kat, about the wand?

Kat: No, I just always really liked that moment.

Eric: Oh, yeah, okay.

[Kat laughs]

Caleb: Ample oppertunity for Voldemort to taunt the Malfoy family in this chapter.

Kat: I just like when, after Voldemort takes Lucius’s want, Lucius is like, “Uhh.”

[Eric laughs]

Kat: He makes a movement like Voldemort is going to give him his wand, and it makes me cringe.

Caleb: It’s so well written in the book.

Kat: It is.

Eric: It’s just like, [as Voldemort] “Oh, you thought I was going to give you my wand?” But it’s like, you just said your wand can’t work against Harry’s, so why not give Lucius your wand? But for me, it’s more like, “No, Lucius, you’re under house arrest. You don’t need your wand because you won’t be going out.”

Kat: He’s like Sirius in that way, isn’t he?

Eric: Ohh man! I like that a lot.

Kat: Where he’s being detained by somebody, doesn’t want to be detained, and then ends up going about doing his own thing anyway.

Eric: I hate that so much I like it.

Kat: Hmm, I’m sorry. All the Sirius fans out there are like, “Noo! Noo!”

Eric: Yeah. [laughs] I like it a lot.

Caleb: All right, so now we’re going to throw it to you guys with our first Question of the Week for Deathly Hallows. And the question focuses on the Malfoy family, particularly Narcissa. So: Even though Voldemort targets Lucius and Draco with his taunts. The most striking description is of Narcissa – even as she is described as the opposite of her sister Bellatrix, who longs to be near Voldemort. Is she, Narcissa, the only person in the room really starting to consider distancing herself from Voldemort? Is this the start of her huge decision at the end of the book with Harry? What is going through Narcissa’s head as Voldemort acts this way in her own home? So if you need to, take a look back at the chapter, [and] read Narcissa’s body language because I think it’s really descriptive and really telling. And let us know what you think.

Eric: Absolutely. I think it’s a pretty strong first question, especially because the Malfoys are a family that we’ll be watching closely throughout the entire book.

Kat: I mean, without Narcissa lying to Voldemort at the end, who knows how that would have ended up?

Eric: You just never know. Maybe that’ll be the Question of the Week in a later chapter. [laughs]

Kat: Maybe it will be.

Eric: Maybe, maybe. Well, we do want to thank our guest, Margie. Thank you, Margie, for joining us.

Margie: So thrilled to have been a part of the show.

Eric: Ah, yes, it was great having you. You definitely brought up some really cool points.

Kat: Yeah, we hope you had fun.

Margie: I liked it. I did. You made my summer. [laughs]

Eric: Oh, wow. We made her summer.

Kat: Wow, honored. Thank you.

Caleb: That was a great way for us to start the books. So thanks for joining us. And if you would also like to be on the show as a guest host, head over to our main page, alohomora.mugglenet.com. All you use is a simple set of headphones like Apple headphones, and you’ll be all set. No fancy equipment is needed. And while you’re there, on the main site, you could also download one of our ringtones for free.

Kat: And in the meantime, if you just want to keep in touch with us, you can find us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN, facebook.com/openthedumbledore. On Tumblr at mnalohomorapodcast. Our phone number is 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287 – and you can always send us an audioBoom. It’s free. All you need is an Internet connection and a microphone. Head over to alohomora.mugglenet.com, leave us a message that’s under 60 seconds, and you just might hear it on the show.

Caleb: Also, make sure to check out our store, [which] has a lot of great products like House shirts, Desk!Pig shirts, Mandrake Liberation Front shirts, and a lot of other products – I don’t know why I’m saying “shirts” so many times…

[Eric laughs]

Caleb: … Minerva is my homegirl, and so much more.

Eric: And there is, of course, the smartphone app. It is available around…

[Eric and Kat laugh]

Eric: This is new, isn’t it?

Kat: It is.

Eric: Available around the world. Around the wooorrrllld.

[Everyone laughs]

Kat: It’s a Daft Punk song.

Eric: Oh. Then I should do it [like], [imitating the song] “Around the world, around the world. Around the world, around the world.”

[Kat laughs]

Eric: That’s what they sound like, right? Prices vary. You can find on this app transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and more. I can tell everybody listening that this week’s bonus content when this episode airs, which I am in charge of, will be awesome! So definitely go and check that out on our Alohomora! app. You can find details on the website.

[Show music begins]

Caleb: All right, that’s going to do it for this week’s episode of Alohomora! I’m Caleb Graves.

Eric: I’m Eric Scull.

Kat: And I’m Kat Miller. Thank you for listening to Episode 151 of Alohomora!

Eric: Open the Dumbledore. Mew!

[Show music continues]

Eric: Mew!

Caleb: [laughs] What?

Kat: [laughs] What was that?

Eric: Mew is the 151st Pokémon.

Kat: [laughs] Oh.

Eric: You open the Dumbledore and you get “Mew! I’m Mew! Hoo-hoo! Mew!” So… I’m out of ideas.

Margie: Audio test: Socks and Slugs. To sit in solemn silence on a dull, dark dock, in a pestilential prison with a life-long lock, awaiting the sensation of a short, sharp shock, from a cheap and chippy chopper on a big black block.