Transcripts

Transcript – Episode 138

[Show music begins]

Michael Harle: This is Episode 138 of Alohomora! for May 23, 2015.

[Show music continues]

Michael: Hello there, listeners, and welcome back to another episode of Alohomora!, MuggleNet.com’s global reread of the Harry Potter series. I’m Michael Harle.

Rosie Morris: I’m Rosie Morris.

Alison Siggard: And I’m Alison Siggard. And our guest this week is Sabrina, who is also known as the Half Blood Princess. Welcome, Sabrina!

Sabrina McClain: Hi!

Alison: Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Sabrina: I’m 15. I live in Lexington. I got into Harry Potter the summer before seventh grade so I’m actually a late bloomer, I guess because I was generally suspicious of popular book series and stuff…

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Sabrina: … and everyone kept saying I should read it, so I read it and I really liked it.

Michael: [laughs] And what…?

Sabrina: I’m a Ravenclaw.

Michael: Oh, okay, so we’ve got a Ravenclaw, and we’ve got Hufflepuffs. [laughs]

Alison: And I’ll stand in for Gryffindor this week. [laughs]

Michael: Yeah, yeah, you’ll be the Gryffindor exchange student? Okay. [laughs]

Alison: There we go.

Michael: That’s a good trade-off. So no Slytherin. We’re so frequently missing Slytherins, so…

[Alison laughs]

Rosie: Slytherins just don’t seem to like the reread. They’re just happy to read it once then going on with their exploits.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Michael: Well, and we’re glad you’re finally getting to join us, Sabrina; we know you’ve been wanting to be on the show for a long time, and you’ve left a lot of great comments on the main site throughout the last shows.

Rosie: Yes.

Sabrina: Thanks.

Michael: So yes, we’re glad to actually have you on for Chapter 20 of Half-Blood Prince, which is “Lord Voldemort’s Request” and I’m so excited because this is one of my favorite chapters of the book. And listeners, make sure to read that chapter before listening to our discussion today so you can get the most out of what we have to talk about today.

Rosie: Of course, before we get to Michael’s very favorite chapter, we’ve got to…

Michael: Ehh…

Rosie: … well, maybe not very favorite, but a favorite chapter of Michael’s…

Michael: It’s a favorite.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Rosie: … we have to recap our comments from last week’s chapter, and there were a few great comments in the main site about plot lines that have to do with Deathly Hallows, which is my fault because I was talking about them last episode; never mind.

[Michael laughs]

Rosie: But I just want to say keep those in mind and we’ll try to talk about them when we actually get to those scenes in that book because there’s just so much good detail there and it would be silly to talk about it before we actually read that chapter. So yeah, there’s a whole new way to look at “Owl Post Again”; will we ever get done with that topic? Who knows?

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: But the first comment today comes from laughing with Fred and it says,

“Hey guys, as far as the relationship of trio goes; I think is less about one of them being the glue, and more that all three rely on each other in a symbiotic manner. when one of the[m] gets out of alignment the other also feel the effects, but then those two will readjust to care for the third.”

So we were really talking about the fact that these three people really seem to need each other to make the plot lines work within the story, and I think I said that Ron was the glue that held them all together, and this is saying that, “No, they all three need to be together to actually even each other out.” Do you guys agree?

Alison: Yeah, I definitely agree with this one. I think especially at this point in their friendship, they each bring something different to the table and each of them makes up for each other’s weaknesses with their strengths, and I think that’s why they all work together.

Sabrina: This reminds me; there’s this part in the third book when they first meet Hermione after the summer, and I think they go immediately into trio mode after she comes in.

Michael: Yeah. I mean, I guess if I were going to label one of them as glue, I would label Harry as the glue…

Alison: Yeah, probably.

Michael: … because Ron ditches in Book 7 and 4 and things are still… they’re tenuous, but they’re still held together, and Hermione and Harry, if a bit strange; they function fairly well, actually, without Ron, despite his absence. But yeah, I think the series goes to great length to show us that all three of them are best when they’re working together. They definitely all need each other.

Rosie: So our next comment comes from GreenCat, and I had to include this one because it’s all about British pronunciation, so…

Michael: Because Rosie is the only one laughing. [laughs]

Rosie: I think it’s very funny but then it’s probably… yeah, it’s probably me. Never mind.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: [continues]

“As well as the tail – the elves being used as tails on Draco – pun, I also read it as a sort of British pronun[cia]tion pun on the word “Health.” Quite a few British accents/speech patterns drop the “H” in words (“House” becomes “‘ouse,” etc) and I always read it as “Elf Tales,” where the “Elf” is pronounced like the word “Health” [like] when people drop the “H,” and the “TH” becomes an “F” (often hear it in the UK in the phrase “‘Ealf & Safety” when taking the mickey out of the sometimes overly strict and invasive health and safety laws we have). This then refers to all the parts of this chapter that relate to many characters[‘] health, Ron and his recovery, Harry and his Quidditch accident, Hagrid talking about Aragog and a large part of the chapter tak[ing] place in the infirmary. Could be I just read way too much into a pronun[cia]tion pun though!”

But I thought it was really funny.

Alison: I think that’s pretty funny, too. [laughs]

Michael: Cute.

Rosie: It was something I never thought about as well, and… yeah. Health and Safety is… yeah. It’s brilliant. [laughs]

Michael: Yeah. Maybe a bit of a stretch, but it’s cute.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: But definitely fun that it could work.

Michael: Again, Rosie is the only one laughing. We’re all just sitting there like, “‘Elf Tales’? Whatever.”

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: You say that, but then there was another comment that said they’d been laughing with tears, crying for the last five days at that comment, so it’s not just me. It’s good.

[Everyone laughs]

Sabrina: At least we all understand the tail pun.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: And then another comment about the chapter title comes from Olivia Underwood, and it says,

“Just about chapter titles, I think Jo obvs doesn’t want to spoil things plotwise for us, so she can’t make things too obvious, but on another note (slightly deviating but whatever), I’m a music student, and one of my favourite composers is Debussy, and with some of his work he put the title of his pieces at the end, not the beginning. The idea was that it would make sure the listener ‘experienced each individual sound world with fresh ears, without being influenced by titles beforehand.’ So maybe Jo was making sure that we weren’t too influenced either by making sure that you only got the point of the title at the end.”

So all of those ideas of the plot line and the title come together at the end without you really expecting what’s going to happen beforehand.

Michael: And that was interesting because I was thinking of that, actually, with our upcoming chapter because “Lord Voldemort’s Request” also plays out the same way, where there’s a lot that goes on in this next chapter but the meaning of the chapter doesn’t come up until the very last few pages. And I don’t know if that’s… I haven’t really been reflecting on whether that’s a theme throughout this book. I feel that there’s chapters in here that don’t do that.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: So it’s funny to me. I wonder if there’s… because I know Rowling chooses her titles very carefully, especially with the titles of the book itself, so I wonder what her thought process is for each particular chapter title and why she chooses that because I know a lot of people were saying that calling it “Elf Tales” was odd because really, that chapter is not really about that at all.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: The last page or two is about… and it’s not even actually them tailing Malfoy. That doesn’t actually happen until later. They’re just assigned to it. So I don’t know. I’d be interested to see, perhaps, how many chapters in each book are meant to be this… Olivia Underwood’s metaphor for Debussy and how the meaning shouldn’t become plain until the end or the chapters that are just titled generally toward the bigger theme of the chapter.

Sabrina: There is one chapter called “Hermione’s Helping Hand” but I can’t remember if she actually Confunds McLaggen at the end of the chapter or not or when Harry figures that out or what, so that might be it, but that might not be it.

Michael: I think, yeah, she does because McLaggen gets Confunded around the middle of the chapter and then Harry…

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: Figures it out at the end.

Michael: … hounds Hermione for it at the end.

Michael and Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: And that event has a pretty big overall effect on that chapter.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: It’s a big focus on that chapter, versus these things that are more revealed at the end.

Rosie: Yeah. With “Elf Tales” as well, as we said last week, it’s a very much bitty chapter. There are so many different strands of plot that happen…

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: … and it’s slightly filler-y, so it’s quite hard to choose one of those things to have as the main title of the chapter because none of them really advance the plot in any really significant way.

Michael: Yeah.

Rosie: But I think Jo is very good at using her titles as foreshadowing. So they’ll give you a hint at what might happen, but she’s quite good at not actually giving away what that plot line will be.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: So it’s “Lord Voldemort’s Request,” not “Professor Voldemort” or something like that.

Alison and Michael: Yeah.

Rosie: She hides the meaning as well as giving a clue to it.

Alison: Well, and I think that’s one of the things just with good writing, and that makes her such a good writer is that she’s able to pick these titles that are so intriguing…

Rosie: Yeah. Yes.

Alison: … but it takes you a while to get to that point where you go, “Oh! I understand why the title is the title of this chapter or even the books.” It’s the reason why I don’t do chapter titles because I’m not that good, but yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: There was another comment in reference to this, talking about Dragon Ball Z and the fact that there’s one episode where it says that the bad guy dies, and that’s in the title of the episode…

[Alison laughs]

Rosie: … and then in the next episode, that episode is called, “The Bad Guy Returns” or whatever.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Rosie: So you know what’s going to happen before you even watch it, and that’s just ridiculous. There’s no point in watching the episode because you know what’s going to happen.

Alison: You know.

Michael: Aww.

Rosie: So yeah.

Michael: It’s too bad Noah is not here. He would’ve appreciated that.

Rosie: Yes.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Sabrina: So if Goblet of Fire was called Lord Voldemort Returns?

Alison and Rosie: Yeah.

Rosie: Exactly.

[Michael laughs]

Rosie: It’s just bad movie titles. That kind of thing. And speaking of movies… this is all going very well. I hadn’t planned that out. It was good.

[Michael and Sabrina laugh]

Rosie: The next comment comes from Skgai, and it says,

“This movie did a better job with this chapter th[a]n the book. The movie goes right from the climax of Ron’s resurrection to the hospital scene, where nearly every storyline meets and all characters present are given excellent moments and all provide clues to their motives as well, whereas the book slows down immediately following Ron’s near death. The movie gives you Dumbledore trusting Snape again by asking his advice about the poison. It also shows that Dumbledore still cares about people other th[a]n Harry. Slughorn is revealed to be a person thrust into a war he never wanted [to be a] part of. Harry’s revealed to be quick-thinking, which in [turn] makes Snape understand how Harry has been doing so well at Potions. And the most improved part: the Lavender/Ron/Hermione dynamic. Instead of leaving Ron’s side the second the Weasleys enter the room as in the book, Hermione stays with Ron even after Harry leaves. This proves she’s gotten over herself and cares about Ron regardless of his foolishness. And Lavender, overconfident in her own image, is extra Lav-Lav even in front of all her teachers. This scene exposes how excessively over-the-top and insincere Lavender’s love for Ron really is. It just nails it. Finally, the relationship between Ron and Lavender ends so much better in the film th[a]n in the book. Just a nice punctual end, so the story can move on to more important matters instead of trickling down like in the book.”

Michael: Oof. [laughs]

Rosie: Yeah, and I think it really depends on what you think is good storytelling or realistic storytelling or whether things are just a plot device because the whole Hermione and Ron relationship is advanced so much quicker in all of the movies…

Alison: Yes.

Rosie: … not just this particular one, so all of that snowballs and really relies on each other to build this plot dynamic faster, but I really like the slow burn, and I really like the realism of them not getting together until the very end and dancing around each other and knowing that they both like each other but not wanting to admit it for the fear of their friendship falling apart.

Alison: Yeah. But they admit it today.

Rosie: So I really do think that the book is good.

Michael: Yeah, I think this actually is a case of both scenes being appropriate to their mediums.

Alison, Rosie, and Sabrina: Yeah.

Michael: The book is good because, like you said, Rosie, it’s a slow burn and the book has time to do that, but even when I was rereading “Elf Tales” I was like, “I can see why they cut this out of the movie.”

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: It’s really not… and what I think the movie does really well is not just that it does the scene well; it compacts the information unusually well for the movies.

Alison and Rosie: Yes.

Michael: The movies don’t always do that very well, but that particular scene does because, like Skgai said, it’s a nice convergence of all these really… of what the movie version of Half-Blood Prince has termed the most important plot lines. It is the point of the movie where they crisscross because after that, it starts to go back to the matters of the movie.

Rosie: Mhm.

Michael: We have the scene Skgai referenced of Lavender Brown digging her spoon into the table, which is very funny, and then pretty much from there…

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Jessie does that brilliantly.

Michael: Yeah. It is well done. I think the way that the movie deals with as far as Ron and Lavender works because Lavender is so over the top in the movie version. She’s kind of ridiculous in the book, but not so quite as caricature-ish, perhaps. But yeah, I think the movie does well for the needs of a movie. You can’t go from that to a Quidditch scene with McLaggen because McLaggen, by that point, was out of the movie for a pretty long time and he doesn’t really matter anymore.

Alison and Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: And like you said, Rosie, before, that part of the chapter doesn’t do anything to narratively take the story forward. And Quidditch was pretty much out of the movies by that point.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Alison: Sadly.

Michael: It’s a set piece by that point, and really I can see why; Quidditch barely even matters in this book.

Rosie: Yeah. It’s interesting that for movies that had such a large budget and such large profits, they were so constrained by budget for things like Quidditch and the house-elves that they just completely cut them and had to work around those story lines. But I do think they did it quite well, so…

Michael: Yeah.

Sabrina: Still would’ve liked to see Dobby in the movie, though.

Alison and Rosie: Yeah.

Rosie: Poor Dobby.

Michael: Well, I think for Dobby, it would’ve been nice just because he is so important in Deathly Hallows: Part 1 and his significance is kind of shoved on you in the movie, whereas in the book it doesn’t feel that way.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: And as far as the budget goes, I think the difficult thing with that is just that I think we underestimate just how much money it costs to make movies like these.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: So yeah, you get all those big new behind the scenes books that Warner Bros. has been putting out, right?

Alison and Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: And the things they talk about; how much money they spend on these things, it was… I always say, no matter how good or bad you think the Harry Potter movies were, we were very spoiled as a fandom by those movies.

Rosie: Extremely spoiled.

Alison: It’s true.

[Michael laughs]

Sabrina: Mmm. I’ve seen movies that are less faithful to the books than the Harry Potter movies, even if I’m always frustrated with the movies.

Michael: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Rosie: [laughs] Definitely. Yeah, we were extremely lucky with what they did manage to include in the Harry Potter films and how well that they did do it, so we should always be grateful. And somehow we managed to do it again and got onto the topic of Dobby, so the next comment is from TheQueerWeasleyCousin, and there were several comments talking about how Harry had forgotten about Dobby, and Kreacher as well, and forgotten that he could actually use them until this very last afterthought moment. And they say,

“To say something in favor of Harry, maybe he just doesn’t think of Dobby as someone whom he can give orders? When he has the idea to tell Kreacher to tail Malfoy, maybe it’s because Kreacher is so happy to be a servant (not to Harry, though), and Harry doesn’t respect him. But Dobby hated his house[-]elf life, wants to get paid and is also respected by Harry as a person, I think. So Harry just doesn’t feel like giving him extra work until he so eagerly offers to help? You’re right about Harry not making much effort to see or talk to Dobby, though.”

And I do think that Harry sees Dobby as a friend, but I also do think he has completely forgotten about him by this point, which is a shame.

Alison: Yeah, yeah. I think Harry just forgets about house-elves.

Rosie: Yeah.

Alison: They just popped up randomly in his life and then they pop up every once in a while, but for the most part he just doesn’t think about it.

Rosie: He was so helpful during the whole Triwizard Tournament, though, and it’s just… poor Dobby.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: Well, Dobby, as far as his relationship with Harry, I think Harry… it’s not like they’re going to hang out or anything.

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: I think Harry finds it somewhat uncomfortable to talk to Dobby sometimes because Dobby doesn’t really have much to relate to.

Rosie: Too many Christmas decorations.

Michael: Yes, it’s a little… I think that might be another problem, actually, Rosie, is that Dobby slightly worships Harry a little bit and Harry is really uncomfortable with that.

Rosie: Yeah. The same way as Colin Creevey. He distances himself in the same fashion, yeah.

Michael: Yeah. But I do think TheQueerWeasleyCousin is right in saying that Harry respects Dobby too much to ask him that because when Dobby shows up, he actually says to Dobby, “I don’t feel comfortable giving you orders,” or something. He’s like, “You don’t have to listen to what I say,” and Dobby is like, “But I want to!” So it works out. I don’t think Harry would’ve thought of Dobby first because of that reason. I think that’s correct.

Rosie: So our next comment comes from PigPuff and it says:

“Why do they even really have a hospital wing? You must be seriously injured to end up there because majority of medical issues can be fixed in seconds by Madam Pomfrey. Harry only had to stay over night, and in some situation Madam Pomfrey needs to watch the patients (like when Harry had to re-grow his bones), but why did Ron have to stay so long? And really, why did Harry have to stay [there] once he was mended? I understand Ron was poisoned, but surely after 1 day in the hospital wing he was ok[ay] to go back to his dorm. It doesn’t seem to have had any lasting effects on him.”

Sabrina: Ron didn’t get to go back to his dorm because Madam Pomfrey is really fussy and overprotective.

Alison and Michael: Yeah.

Rosie: But she’s also super magical and amazing at fixing people, so why did it take her so long to make sure Ron was okay?

[Michael laughs]

Alison: Maybe they weren’t sure what kind of poison it was…

Rosie: True.

Alison: … or if it would work long term. I don’t know. The hospital wing seems to just be there because Harry ends up there every year, so…

[Rosie laughs]

Alison: He seems to be the only one who’s ever there.

Sabrina: Couldn’t they take the mead and find the poison from the remaining mead?

Rosie: Yes, I think.

Michael: Oh yeah, because he didn’t drink it all. Well, and I think a similar question I jump to is in Prisoner of Azkaban when McGonagall takes Harry’s Firebolt and she doesn’t give it back to him for a month.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: And it’s like, really? You guys are the best of the best. You really couldn’t have tested that earlier? But as far as that goes, I think Sabrina is right in that certain wizards – I think at least the good ones – are actually somewhat overly cautious and not completely dependent on magic to solve all problems.

Alison: Yeah, I’d agree with that.

Michael: Because we see on Pottermore… there’s a section on Pottermore about how Rowling decided how far magic could heal medical issues.

Rosie: Oh, right.

Alison: Mhm.

Michael: And so she did give a barometer for that, and she said that the basic things like a common cold can be fixed pretty quickly; you just take Pepper-Up Potion. But as the severity increases of the injury, there is more magical care that’s needed, so…

Rosie: Sure. And we have to remember that Harry didn’t make a specific antidote for a specific poison here, as well. He just used the bezoar which is a stepping stone toward a cure rather than the actual cure itself.

Michael: Yes.

Rosie: It’ll stop him from dying but it won’t actually cure him, so maybe it took him that long to get an actual antidote for the proper poison.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: Okay, as a final comment just because it’s so brilliant, this one is from HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis and it’s talking about the fact that Dobby and Kreacher were having a fight and it mentions that Kreacher is punched in the mouth and his teeth are damaged. So they say,

“It’s a big secret, but Hermione makes her parents go to the Hogwarts kitchens three times a year to do checks on the house[-]elves’ teeth, for free. The [elves] also have their number to call in emergencies.”

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: And I just love that. It’s brilliant. Dentist for house-elves.

Alison: Oh.

Michael: Wouldn’t that be nice?

Rosie: Only Hermione would do so. [laughs]

Michael: I figure house-elves have their own strong enough magic. They can just snap their fingers and their teeth go back in their mouth.

Rosie: Maybe they’re like sharks. [laughs]

Alison: Yeah, they have to have some kind of super good healing properties because if they have to punish themselves every time they do something wrong…

[Michael laughs]

Rosie: That’s true.

Michael: That’s very true.

Sabrina: If they did have problems though, I feel like Dumbledore would definitely want to help them, because remember how he paid Dobby in Book 4 and everything. So he cares about the house-elves and respects them, too.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: So they already have dental insurance probably.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Or some kind of Dumblecare.

Alison: House-elves with braces, oh man.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: And that is the end of our comments for this week, so thank you very much. And don’t forget, you can always comment on each episode you hear on our main site, alohomora.mugglenet.com.

Alison: All right, and now we’re going to move on to our Podcast Question of the Week responses from last week. And just a reminder on what our question was, it said,

“This chapter is a total light relief filler, and as always, the best light moments come from Luna. How exactly did she get the job of commentator at the Quidditch match? What are the requirements for the role, and whom else did McGonagall try first before Luna (who was most likely her last resort)?”

So our first comment comes from grangerdanger who says,

“I think that McGonagall would choose Luna mainly for the reason that she is not biased to anyone. She is the type of person who can celebrate all the houses. I can’t see her liking Slytherin that much, but she would still be fair and honest with any commentary on the games. Like many others are saying, I bet she was one of the only ones, if not the only one, to sign up in the first place. I think she just enjoys celebrating the school in general and Quidditch is one of those activities that brings the entire school together. Luna has also shown the qualities of being observant and opinionated of the world around her and I think that would help her succeed in this role.”

Michael: Yes, Luna has school pride.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: That’s good.

Alison: Not just house pride.

Michael: Oh, yeah. Well, I think that’s evident by her previous Quidditch forays where she’ll wear something from every house on her head…

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: So I’m assuming she has a badger hat and a snake hat as well somewhere.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: I hope so.

Sabrina: To be honest though, she won’t say anything… it’s always said she has a knack for being honest even when it feels awkward. She’ll say, “Oh, I like Ron but I think he can sometimes be kind of rude,” that sort of thing.

Rosie: Mhm.

Alison: Mhm.

Michael: So she’d therefore give an honest Quidditch commentary and her honest opinion was, “This is boring.”

Alison: Yeah.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: All right, and our next comment comes from MinervaLupin, who says,

“Dumbledore does say that those who want to be a commentator […] had to give their names to their Head of House during the Welcoming Feast. I think that the names are passed on to either Madam Hooch or Professor McGonagall (although I feel McGonagall is responsible for commentators). Then, the logic[al] thing to do is for each person who gave their names to pass an audition for the part and what better way for that than commentating a real match so, of course, some knowledge of Quidditch would be required. Once this is done, Professor McGonagall chooses the one [who] was the best in their auditions and that person gets the position as a permanent thing. This process would make sense since we first see Smith from Hufflepuff [try out] for the spot, and then we see Luna in her audition. I am sure there were other people who [tried] out for commentating, at least that is what I assumed while reading. It does work because McGonagall would give everyone who gave their names their fair chance at the job, even if they are not qualified at commentating, as Luna showed in her audition, and why Smith only did one match.”

Sabrina: Well, Zacharias wouldn’t be able to comment on the Hufflepuff ones though if he’s on the Quidditch team.

Michael: Yeah.

Alison: That’s true.

Michael: Yeah, I was just thinking that. So there had to be somebody else and maybe this process is how it goes down. Which I guess would make sense, and then maybe Luna was the second choice. I can’t imagine that this was a horribly popular position at Hogwarts.

[Alison laughs]

Michael: I would go for it obviously if I was at Hogwarts, but I think there’s multiple things that would be really difficult about commentating Quidditch. One, there’s no theatrical or public speaking training at Hogwarts, so I’m imagining a lot of the students would find that terribly nerve-wracking anyway. And two, keeping up with Quidditch is almost impossible.

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: Mhm.

Michael: And not only… like MinervaLupin said, you have to already have that set-in knowledge of the game, and there are plenty of students at Hogwarts who I assume don’t care about Quidditch, like Hermione – she can’t be the only one.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: But also it’s just hard to keep track of what’s even going on in front of you. There’s so much to watch because the play… unlike most games in the Muggle world, the play doesn’t gravitate towards one side of the field or the other. There’s people you have to watch all over the stadium.

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: Yeah. You have to be aware of where everything is.

Michael:

Rosie: [laughs] Yeah.

Michael: I think a lot of people knew that Lee was a really good commentator obviously, because nobody ever took that role for all the years he was at Hogwarts.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Exactly.

Rosie: But also, he got it when he was a Second Year presumably, because he was commentating on Harry’s matches when Harry was a First Year. And Lee is the same age as Fred and George, so he would have been in the year above.

Alison: Oh, yeah.

Michael: Yeah.

Rosie: How amazing is Lee Jordan that he got that role when he was like twelve?

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: No, aren’t they…

Sabrina: I think they’re two years above.

Alison: Yeah, I think the twins are two years above.

Rosie: Oh, okay.

Sabrina: Because they left during the fifth book, which was their seventh year.

Rosie: I always get that wrong.

Michael: Yeah, that’s right.

Alison: And I’m pretty sure Fred and George say in the first book that they were on the team last year.

Sabrina: Mmm.

Rosie: Yeah, so they would have been… if they were on the team last year then they would have been Second Years when they were first on the team, yeah?

Alison: Mhm. Wow. They’re good.

Rosie: So then Lee could have either got it in Second or Third Year, but it sounds like he’s been in the role for a while, so yeah… It’s impressive for all three of them that they were able to do that at the age of twelve or thirteen.

[Michael laughs]

Alison: I wonder if one of the reasons Lee got into the commentating was because he was friends with the twins.

Rosie: Probably. He’s got to do something whilst they’re playing Quidditch.

Alison: Yeah.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Rosie: We literally don’t know anyone else in those years other than the girls on the Quidditch team, so… [laughs]

Alison: I don’t know, maybe it made him feel more involved with them too that they could all talk strategy together.

Rosie: Yeah.

Sabrina: Or maybe it was the other way around and they met because Lee Jordan was the commentator and Fred and George were on the team.

Alison: Oh, maybe.

Michael: Oh!

Rosie: And Quidditch brought them together.

Michael: I like that.

Rosie: That would be nice.

Alison: Awww…

Michael: That would be nice.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Maybe Lee auditioned for a position on the Quidditch team and he didn’t get it, but Wood was like, “There’s a commentator position open…”

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: “You suck at Quidditch but…” [laughs]

Rosie: I love that you called it an audition for a sports event.

Alison: Yeah. [laughs]

Michael: Yeah. [laughs]

Rosie: Spot the art student. [laughs]

Michael: That’s how much I care about sports. Quidditch would be the only sport I would care about if it actually… and not until the brooms actually fly, so…

Rosie: Yeah.

[Alison laughs]

Sabrina: Yeah.

Alison: All right, but our last one is actually… we’re not going to read the whole thing, but it’s kind of a fan-picked winner of this question. It’s a really brilliant, if a little lengthy, fanfic that Hufflepuffskein wrote, speculating how Luna came to be on the list of potential commentators. So we’re actually going to make that our app content for this week, so check out our app for that – it’s really great – or go read it on the site because it was fantastic.

Michael: Yes. I’ll read it and put some voices to it and that’ll give it some life.

[Alison laughs]

Michael: So that’s really cool that somebody did that though.

Alison: Yeah, it was really impressive.

[Michael laughs]

Alison: And that wraps up our responses for our Podcast Question of the Week, and you can go ahead and check out that conversation or comment with your thoughts at alohomora.mugglenet.com.

Michael: But for now we get to dive back into the Pensieve, because this is Chapter 20 of Half-Blood Prince.

[Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20 intro begins]

Voldemort: They do not call me Tom anymore.

Dumbledore: Chapter 20.

Voldemort: These days I’m known as…

Dumbledore: “Lord Voldemort’s Request”

[Half-Blood Prince Chapter 20 ends begins]

Michael: Harry and Ron return to daily life at Hogwarts to find that a considerable amount has changed in the dating scene during their stay in the hospital. Ginny, Dean, and Lavender are all unusually sour and Hermione surprisingly chipper. After a brief encounter with an irate Professor Trelawney, Harry finds himself for the first time on Dumbledore’s bad side for failing to obtain Slughorn’s memory. Resolving to improve his efforts, Harry is witness to two memories: Voldemort’s unsettling encounter with antiques collector Hepzibah Smith, and his failed attempt to secure a teaching position at Hogwarts. But the memory bank has run dry and without Slughorn’s proper memory, all of the acquired recollections have yet to reveal their ultimate meaning. So we’re going to start off this chapter – because there’s so much big stuff to talk about in regards to Harry, Dumbledore, and the memories – but we’re going to start off the chapter with what I like to call the little things.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Because these are the things we often talk about on the show that the listener goes, “Who cares?”

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: And so we’re going to talk about that a little bit, because the chapter does start off not even remotely hinting – other than the chapter title – hinting at memories, because the chapter starts off with Harry and Ron being updated on the relationship statuses of everybody. Hermione informs Harry that Ginny and Dean have had an argument over Harry – that’s what spawned that – and their relationship has become strianed but they are still together. Hermione also… it’s not so difficult for her to have picked up that Harry has an interest when he’s like, [as Harry] “Did they break up?”

Rosie: [as Hermione] “Why do you care, Harry?”

[Alison, Michael, and Rosie laugh]

Sabrina: She’s good at that sort of thing.

Alison: “You’ve never cared before.” [laughs]

Michael: [laughs] And the other big relationship change is that Lavender has finally confronted Ron, who conveniently forgot to tell her that he was getting out of the hospital.

[Alison laughs]

Rosie: That’s just so silly.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: And they presumably also have an argument, which leaves their relationship still together but also strained. So I wanted to ask the same question that the listeners ask, and not because I don’t know the answer but because I would like to throw it to you guys to maybe discuss a little. Why does this matter?

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Why does any of this matter? Tell me why. [laughs]

Alison: Because… well…

Michael: Because love!

Alison: I think… yes.

[Michael laughs]

Alison: I especially think it’s coming at this point in the book because we’re starting to wind towards the climax of the big important stuff of this book. But before we get there, we have to wrap up these smaller subplots that are also important. And so that’s why I feel like she’s throwing it in here now because we’ve got to keep moving along. [laughs]

Michael: Mhm.

Sabrina: Even though I’m not a big fan of romance, I think that seeing how the characters act during different situations, including romance, is really important. So, not just how they act when an evil, Dark wizard is trying to kill them.

Alison, Michael, and Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: That’s my feeling about it, because when I compare Harry Potter to a lot of other [juvenile] and YA series that are out there, I think [about] the failings for some of those series that I see, the ones that are weak. Because listeners, if you’ve ever worked in a bookstore or library, you’ll have that epiphany moment as you’re walking through the shelves and you’ll just be like, “Dang! There are a lot of books out there that nobody reads.” [laughs]

Rosie: Yeah, it’s sad.

Michael: A lot of books that get out into the world aren’t read by a major amount of the public and a lot of stories are out there that are ignored. But there’s some that you read though and you’re just like, “Oh, I can see why.”

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: And I think in terms of juvenile and young adult, that particular age target for writing has evolved so much over the years and what’s expected of it. And Harry Potter, I think, was another one of those that went a little deeper than the usual expectations. Because I think perhaps the new generation in some ways might take Harry Potter for granted because they have a lot of other series that have evolved past it now. Harry Potter was pretty shocking for its time. It generated a lot of controversy.

Sabrina: Yeah, I feel like even though not everyone is as obsessed with Harry Potter as I am…

[Michael laughs]

Sabrina:Harry Potter is something that everyone knows about, like how in the first book when [McGonagall] said, “Every child in our world will know his name.” So it’s part of the culture.

Alison, Michael, and Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: And there’s reasons for that, and I think you could cut some of the relationship stuff from Half-Blood Prince and from the other books, but then it wouldn’t be Rowling’s writing in my opinion.

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: And it wouldn’t be such a rich world. It wouldn’t be so realistic.

Michael: Yes.

Rosie: If you go to any school you will see kids having relationships and you’ll see them falling apart and getting together, and there’s so much change happening within a week at a time.

Alison: Yes.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: So this is perfectly reasonable that they would have been in hospital for two days and everything would have changed.

Michael: Yeah.

Rosie: Especially if it’s someone that you’re interested in. So the mention of Harry and Ginny and the fact that in the chapter before we had that lovely moment where he’s imagining Ginny crying over his bed or whatever it is…

Alison: Yeah.

[Michael laughs]

Rosie: Yeah, it’s just… that little fantasy moment that Harry just… any little mention, he’s going to grip hold of and pull apart and wonder what that could mean for him.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: And that just makes him human and it makes him more than just a hero who’s going to defeat the bad guy. And that is part of the magic of Harry Potter. It’s good. [laughs]

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. I’d cite specific examples of books that I’ve found that have failed that, but I wouldn’t want to offend any potential authors that might want to come on the show.

[Alison, Michael, and Rosie laugh]

Michael: But I definitely see that a lot. I think I especially see that with… [take] Harry Potter as an example. Harry Potter generated a lot of other fantasies that came out around the same time, The Hunger Games generated a lot of dystopias that came out around the same time, and I think people tend to note that those copies usually are missing an element like this where you do drift away from the focus of the story so that you can build your characters up a little bit.

Rosie: Yeah.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: The main focus, like you said, Sabrina, is not just about watching Harry, Ron, and Hermione react to an evil Dark Lord chasing them all the time, because that wouldn’t be half as interesting. Some other little interesting things that we encounter: there’s another interaction with what has been referred to as the “very small girl” in the narration who drops her scales – wonder why. Just something worth noting.

Rosie: Who could it possibly be? [laughs]

Michael: Who could it possibly be?

Sabrina: It’s funny that she’s next to a tapestry of the dancing trolls with tutus…

Michael: Yes.

Alison: Yeah.

Sabrina: … and it’s not mentioning the Room of Requirement. It’s great.

Alison and Michael: Yeah.

Michael: It’s a nice kind of subtle hint, especially if you’re reading it for the first time. Listeners, fun little note: if you haven’t had a chance to play the Half-Blood Prince video game yet – it’s not the best of the series – but shockingly, it includes the little girl standing by the Room of Requirement. And if you walk by her, she’ll freak out and drop her scales.

Rosie: [laughs] That’s awesome.

Alison: What?

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: I was very surprised.

Rosie: I don’t think I’ve played the Half-Blood Prince [game].

Michael: Yeah, and it doesn’t include any other details from the book.

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: But that one little thing that didn’t make it into the movies somehow made it into the video game… [laughs]

Rosie: That’s brilliant.

Michael: … which I thought was pretty funny.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Another nice little – I thought this was a particularly nice little thing that I think a lot of us perhaps forget about, especially because it’s not included in the films – but Ron, very genuinely, comes around to Luna Lovegood. It’s worth noting, I think, because of Luna’s place in the dynamic of the trio.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: Interestingly, Hermione wasn’t the last one to come around to Luna; it’s Ron and it’s because of the Quidditch commentary. It’s just a nice little moment because Ron doesn’t really say very genuinely nice things very often. [laughs]

Rosie: No.

Michael: Especially to the opposite sex.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: So, it’s just nice to see that happen.

Rosie: And all over a Gurdyroot.

Alison and Michael: Yes.

Michael: Which was hilarious apparently. Gurdyroots are just hilarious in the wizarding world.

Alison: I just love the phrase “Gulping Plimpies.”

Michael and Sabrina: Yep.

Rosie: Gulping Plimpies.

Alison: [laughs] It’s so fun to say.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Well, Plimpies are actually a real thing in the Wizarding world, so she’s not making that up.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: I just don’t know what a gulping one would be.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Alison: I just imagine a little plankton that has a really big mouth and is just like “gulp, gulp, gulp” all the time.

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: And the last little thing is that Professor Trelawney makes probably one of her most brief appearances to date. And it’s for once not really written with any hidden subtext.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: She doesn’t make any…

Rosie: All just plain. [laughs]

Michael: Yep, it’s all just right there in front of you. She doesn’t make any predictions, she doesn’t pull out her Tarot cards, nothing. She just is angry that she’s being employed at the same time as Firenze and thinks he should be fired, and she wants the job to herself again. I think probably the only reason she’s even here is because she is going to be relevant just a little bit later.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: Interestingly, I kind of felt like… I realized this time I read this – I’ve never hit this before – but Trelawney kind of had the same track as Lupin where I could see her character being pushed out of the series – her relevance to the plot and these kinds of moments where she’s just barely kept in.

Rosie: Yeah, I think she’s mainly used as a reminder of the prophecy.

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: So any kind of moment where we’re about to go back into the story where the prophecy will come true, where we find out some detail about why Voldemort is fighting Harry in the first place. We kind of had that moment of Trelawney either with the Tarot cards or just kind of reminding us of her presence and being slightly threatened. So here she’s threatening to leave and therefore that would be a bad thing because Voldemort might catch her, because she doesn’t know that she was the one that created the first prophecy.

Michael: Mhm.

Sabrina: I wonder why it doesn’t occur to Voldemort to try to torture Trelawney once he’s taken over the school.

Rosie: I’m not sure he knows who created the prophecy.

Alison: Yeah, I don’t think he does.

Rosie: No, I don’t think Snape would have bothered telling him that detail.

Alison: I don’t know if Snape knows.

Rosie: Well, Snape would have known because he was listening at the door and would know that Dumbledore was hiring.

Michael: Mhm.

Alison: But does he know who she was? Because her voice doesn’t sound the same when she is giving a real prophecy.

Rosie: That’s true, but she is a Divination teacher and Divination/prophecies, it’s not that hard to make a leap that she was hired at exactly the same moment that this prophecy happened.

Michael: Yeah.

Alison: Fair point. [laughs]

Sabrina: Well, when did Snape become a teacher though?

Rosie: Afterwards, once he wanted protection from Voldemort with the whole Lily thing, I think. He may already be a teacher, but I think it happens after Lily dies.

Sabrina: So he might not know who the Divination teacher is until he becomes a teacher.

Michael: Well, and I think as far as Voldemort going after her, by that point that’s not really important to Voldemort anymore to find that information out.

Rosie: No, but it’s just Dumbledore being aware of the problem.

Michael: Yeah, at this point I could see that being a risk. But by Deathly Hallows, other than getting his hands on Harry, by that point Voldemort’s achieved everything he needs to start what he wants to do.

Alison and Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: So Trelawney’s not really important in the game anymore.

Rosie: No.

Michael: But she would’ve been. I mean… yeah, I think still at this point, potentially yes. And I can see why Dumbledore was kind of keeping that in mind. Besides, I think Dumbledore is also just… whether or not Voldemort would go after her, I think he’s also just being safe and cautious as well, as far as keeping her around. So, Dumbledore doesn’t like to let his assets just wander off.

Rosie: Also, you never know if she’s about to make another prophecy.

Michael: That’s true, yes.

Rosie: Maybe he’s waiting for her to tell him whether Harry’s going to win the war or not.

[Michael laughs]

Rosie: Could happen.

Michael: He would have been waiting a long time.

Rosie: Yeah. [laughs]

Michael: But again, it’s interesting to note because after Trelawney’s final scene in Half-Blood Prince, she only gets one very brief cameo in Deathly Hallows, so we won’t be seeing too much more of her as it is. So yeah, she’s starting to make her last goodbyes here. But as she departs, Harry finally gets to talk to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore’s already in kind of a pissy mood after his ordeal with Trelawney. And what happens is that he immediately starts off by saying, “I have two more memories. Did you get the third one?” And Harry says, “Uh… no.” And Dumbledore… so I want to talk about Dumbledore’s reaction here because… and I was glad Rosie is on this episode.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Because Rosie has very strong feelings about Dumbledore. And I figured she might have something to say about Dumbledore’s approach with Harry on this.

Rosie: You see, it’s interesting because my experience as a trainee teacher this year has added layers to my opinion of Dumbledore.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Rosie: This scene is the moment where we remember that Dumbledore is a teacher. His methods of… it’s that guilt stare, isn’t it? It’s that “I know you’ve messed up, and I’m going to make you feel like you’ve messed up. Because you’ve done wrong.”

Sabrina: He actually reminded me more of a parent in this scene, actually.

Rosie: Yeah, it’s that’s same attitude, isn’t it? It’s where you’re teaching the kid right or wrong because they can learn from their own mistakes, and Harry has definitely messed up here. [laughs]

Michael: I think the most impressive part about this tactic is, by the time it goes into the extra long silence, Dumbledore refuses to do anything until Harry apologizes. [laughs] He just stops it dead, and he’s like, [as Dumbledore] “All right, well, when you say sorry, but I could be here all night.” [laughs]

Rosie: Yeah, “You’re wasting your time and mine.” [laughs]

Sabrina: Yeah, this has happened to me a lot.

Michael: I would be lying if I didn’t say it’s happened to me quite a few times in life.

Rosie: I think it’s interesting also that you mentioned just a second ago that Dumbledore is already in a pissy mood, and I don’t think it’s just from Trelawney. Because the chapter before, we also had Hagrid mentioning that Snape and Dumbledore had been fighting, and obviously, we see that argument in the next book when we see Snape’s memories, but I think that must have only just happened. And Dumbledore has all of these frustrations and worries going on in his head, so he’s aware of what Draco is doing, he’s aware of the dangers to the kids in school, he’s trying to speed up the hunt, and that’s why he’s got so many memories, and he wants this over with now so that he can protect other students. And the fact that Harry hasn’t even tried, and it’s Harry’s friend [who]’s hurt now, it’s just all of those things are coming to a head, and Dumbledore is just so done. Maybe his hand’s hurting as well. Who knows? He’s just over it.

Sabrina: If the argument with Snape has already happened, then that would mean that the silver doe conversation has happened too.

Michael: Has that one happened yet?

Rosie: Remind me what the silver doe conversation is.

Sabrina: Because I’m pretty sure the argument ends with Dumbledore saying, “Come to my office at 10 o’clock tonight” or something like that, “and you won’t complain that I haven’t given you enough information,” and then the next scene is the silver doe conversation. Not the one where Snape is going to give Harry the sword, the one where…

Alison: Yeah, but the “always” conversation.

Sabrina: Yeah, that one.

Michael: Wow.

Alison: I… do those happen at the same time?

Michael: If that is the case, yeah, that would definitely explain the strain. [laughs] I mean, notwithstanding all the things you listed, Rosie. While you check that, Sabrina, there’s still… the thing I wanted to point out with that, with this scene… because as I mentioned before in this discussion of the little things, we have had a lot of listeners just bemoaning the romance and the things that seemingly distract, perhaps, from the main goal of the story. And was interesting to me because in a way, is this perhaps a reflection of what might potentially be the readers’ frustrations with Harry? Because I’ve definitely been seeing a lot of listener comments of people saying, “Why doesn’t Harry care more? He went through a lot last year, and he lost somebody, and he took it so seriously last year, and this year he’s putting everything off as much as he can.” Is this Dumbledore’s way of being the narrator who’s saying, “Come on, story. Time to get going”?

Rosie: “You are the Chosen One, Harry. You need to be the Chosen One now!”

[Kristen and Michael laugh]

Alison: I do think… okay, I think the romance stuff is important. And I think the first time reading it, it’s even more important. I think a lot of that frustration comes from reading it over again when you know where you’re heading, and you’re like, “Why are we still here?” But Dumbledore is just upset that “Really, Harry? You did nothing. What have you been doing?” Stalking Draco Malfoy, not trying to get stuff done. And I mean, I think it’s a good thing because we haven’t really seen Harry get chastised in these books. He’s either perfect, or it’s Snape, and he’s being unfair. And so to actually have someone say, “Uhm, Harry, you’ve got to work at something for once,” it’s refreshing.

Rosie: Especially when he spent so much time going, “Dumbledore, pay attention to me. Dumbledore, pay attention to me. Why aren’t you talking to me? Pay attention to me, pay attention to me,” and then he has just gone and ignored his request and yeah. Bad Harry.

Michael: I guess, to be the devil’s advocate here, I may be… now, being older, I see both sides of the argument. And I definitely sympathize more with Dumbledore in this scene now than I did maybe when I first read it, but I remember when I first reading it and thinking in terms of you, Rosie, because to me, even though Dumbledore says, [as Dumbledore] “Well, once you knew Ron was better, why didn’t you start working on this again?”

Rosie: He was in the hospital wing!

Michael: Yeah, but it’s interesting to me that there is… Harry lists in his head all of his excuses, and he realizes in the moment that “Oh, these are kind of lame,” but he does go through a lot of reasons why he hasn’t focused on it. I was thinking, “That’s a very logical…” I see Harry’ way of thinking as a teenager. His world is very important to him, and there’s things…

Rosie: He can only handle one thing at a time.

Sabrina: And yet he still finds time to stalk Malfoy.

Rosie: [laughs] Well, that’s his one thing.

Michael: Well, and it’s interesting with Malfoy. Because I can’t really blame Harry. I still don’t blame Harry for that, because even though Dumbledore is saying, “Stop it,” the thing is, Harry is not wrong about Malfoy. I think that’s the most frustrating thing, is that Harry is perfectly correct about Malfoy, and Dumbledore is just not telling him the whole story because it will screw up Dumbledore’s puzzle.

Rosie: And that’s the problem, because if he just told Harry that he knows something’s going on, but Harry just need to sit tight, and it’ll be sorted, then Harry would be fine. Because he’s being denied, and because he’s so convinced that everyone else is just oblivious, that’s why he’s digging in and digging in and digging in and trying to find out what’s going on. Because he’s convinced that something bad will happen because no one’s noticed. And that is fair enough because that’s happened so many times: With Quirrell, with the Chamber of Secrets, that’s what Harry is used to. People don’t notice what’s going on, so he has to save the day. And this time everyone knows what’s going on, but no one’s actually telling him, so he’s just going with the story that he always has to do. Poor Harry.

Michael: Well, yeah, I think it’s a great reflection of that in the chapter when it ends up being… I think this was the last chapter, but it’s the news that Ron got poisoned spread, and nobody cares.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: Yeah. They were like, “Oh, that again.”

Michael: They were like, “Oh, it was probably just an accident. Just another day at Hogwarts.” [laughs]

Rosie: “He’s Harry Potter’s friend, right? That’s just bound to happen.”

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Sabrina: Well, with Katie Bell, they thought that Katie Bell was the intended party, and they didn’t think that there would be this big grand plan involved, so…

Michael: Yeah, and it’s reasonable – in a way, the way that it goes down – that the school doesn’t care. But it’s definitely an interesting reflection of teenage priorities. And it’s like, “Well, if it didn’t affect me, who cares?” So while I think Dumbledore’s chastising is necessary in this situation, I also always hate to completely invalidate Harry’s feelings in that scene. Because Dumbledore, I don’t think, is taking into account the fact that… and I think we’ll get a lot into this in Deathly Hallows, but for all of Harry’s “being the Chosen One,” he is just a 16-year-old boy. [laughs] So in the end…

Rosie: And it’s still something that early Dumbledore wouldn’t have done. This Dumbledore is not the same Dumbledore as we had earlier on. He’s so much darker. And he’s so much more… he just doesn’t have a very long rope to give. He’s at the end of his tether, and he’s just over it. He just wants everything to be resolved because it’s stressful and it’s just all of that… I’m just totally reflecting on my own life right now.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: It’s the end of term. He just wants it done already.

Michael: Yeah, no, that makes sense to me, coming from a teacher, definitely. Not only is he working on that, but he’s also working on borrowed time in his case. So yeah. And he did make clear at the end of Order of the Phoenix, he was like, “At the end of every year, I just felt really bad. So I wasn’t telling you things. And I’m done doing that because I don’t have time to feel bad.”

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: “Here’s all this information. Go.”

Michael: Yep. [laughs] And speaking of all of this information…

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: … we get to dive into what is quite possibly… and you guys might be surprised by this: I think this is my favorite memory of all the memories in the books.

Rosie: Because it’s the Hufflepuff memory!

Alison: Yay!

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: It is the Hufflepuff memory.

Rosie: It is!

Michael: This memory adds so many layers to things. It’s interesting because Dumbledore is concerned that these memories don’t connect yet. But this memory, I think, reveals a lot more than he even gives it credit for.

Rosie: Yeah. Hepzibah Smith is a very good finder.

[Alison laughs]

Michael: Yes. Isn’t she? Indeed. Miss Hepzibah Smith. Now before we get to Hepzibah Smith, we find out a very interesting bit of history about Voldemort, which is that after all the greatness that he achieved in school – not including his various murders that he committed, but the one’s he actually got awards for – he ends up working at Borgin and Burkes, and all of his teachers go, “Huh? How unexpected.” But there is a layer to that, so it’s worth mentioning. The nice thing I just love about this – those of you who love or at least acknowledge ring theory – Borgin and Burkes was pretty important in Book 2.

Rosie: Woo-hoo!

Michael: They’re back again for Book 6, and they are given quite a bit of prominence with Voldemort’s history, so… oh, and I see Sabrina has a question as well here too.

Sabrina: Well, I was wondering if they took the memory from Hokey, who is a house-elf. So I thought that before this that they only took memories from wizards so if they could take it from house-elves, could they take it from Muggles?

Michael: Do we ever have any evidence that a Muggle’s memory is used for anything? I might be crazy in thinking that there is actually a reference.

Alison: No, I think there is somewhere, but I can’t think of what it is.

Rosie: Is it something to do with Sirius Black? With Wormtail’s murder (but not murder)?

Michael: Oh, when he kills…?

Alison: They talk about talking to eyewitnesses. I feel like it almost had something to do with Frank Bryce and that whole situation. But I may be thinking of something else.

Rosie: Oh, isn’t there a maid? There’s a maid with the…

Michael: Oh, [who] works at the Riddles’ house.

Rosie: … when the Riddles die. Yeah. And isn’t it her memory that she says about going into the house and finding dead bodies? Or is that just a report again?

Alison: Or is that just in the “Riddle House” chapter?

Michael: Yeah, I think that memory is mentioned but not actually used in the Pensieve. The thing, I guess I would argue, is that memories aren’t inherently magical.

Rosie: No. And we see wizards changing memories of Muggles all the time. So if they can adapt memories, and they can blank memories, and they can change memories, I’m sure they can read memories in the same way.

Alison: I’m sure they can. Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. That’s a good question, though, because… yeah, and I’m glad you asked it, Sabrina, because other than that, there’s not too much to say about Hokey. She’s a poor sad little character. And the one good thing about Hokey is that she does bring up SPEW to Harry’s mind, and her character highlights why that still will play a role to some degree, and Dumbledore definitely pushes that idea as well.

Sabrina: Very rare that he actually sympathizes with Spew.

Michael: Yes. So there’s a big moment there.

Rosie: Also, this means that house-elves are now the second species that has the most actual characters. Because we’ve got four house-elves that all talk to us, and I think that is the most… of all the magical species, we see one or two of other things. But we’ve got four house-elves, and they’re all individual characters, and they’re all fully fleshed characters within the books, and yay house-elves!

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: Yes. Well, yeah, they’re very informative to the world and the plot, so…

Rosie: Which is interesting because I just… they’re such diminutive characters. And the fact that Jo puts so much importance on them, I think, just… yeah. It’s just lovely that she’ll pay so much attention to people who are supposedly servants and who are supposedly so small in their characters. They have such importance, and I just like that dynamic within the books.

Michael: It definitely speaks to not only her personal moral views but also the moral views of the Potter series as a whole, that the people who aren’t paid attention to might have just the most valuable things to say in this case. And Hokey has a lot that she remembered about Miss Hepzibah Smith. “Hepzibah,” probably – next to Xenophilius – one of the most interesting names that has ever cropped up in the Harry Potter series.

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: And I remember when I first read it, I was like, “That’s a Jewish name right there.”

[Alison laughs]

Michael: Which is the other reason that it struck me. “Hepzibah” is actually derived from the name “Hephzibah,” which is a biblical name, and the usual translation of the name that you’ll find if you google it quickly is “my delight is in her.” And I thought, “Well, what does that even mean in comparison to Hepzibah?

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: And so I searched a little deeper…

Sabrina: It’s kind of the other way around, though.

Michael: You mean her affection for Voldemort?

Sabrina: Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. That’s what I was thinking too. Because it seems backward because Voldemort has no true delight.

Alison: Well, he does get two of his eventual Horcruxes from her.

Michael: My delight is in her stuff.

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: But interestingly, the root word in Hepzibah’s name is hafz, H-A-F-Z, which means “guarding or taking care of,” suggesting that her full name alludes to “one who is guarded,” or “a protected one.” And I think that definitely gets more to the idea of her character.

Rosie: Yeah, she’s protecting all of her relics.

Michael: Yeah. One who’s very guarded about her treasures, and it’s made clear that she doesn’t really show these things to a lot of people. Now just another worthy thing to note about Hepzibah’s name, her surname is Smith, and it has been theorized but in no way confirmed…

Alison: It hasn’t?

Michael: No… that she could have been related to Zacharias Smith in some way.

Rosie: And I think that it makes sense because of the Hufflepuff connection.

Alison: Their names also sound along a similar vein.

Sabrina: Also could explain how Zacharias got into Hufflepuff even though he has a Slytherin personality.

[Alison laughs]

Michael: Well, I was going to say, because these are… this is a case… especially if they are related, these are probably two of the most daft, somewhat despicable Hufflepuffs we come across in the series.

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: Because Hepzibah definitely has some… the way that she hoards things for her own self is definitely a very Slytherin… if we’re going by the stereotypical traits, isn’t very Hufflepuff.

Rosie: I do think there is an element of pride within Hufflepuff. And I think everyone… pride and cunning come together so that it is often thought of as a Slytherin trait as well, but I think there is definitely a pride aspect within every Hufflepuff [whom] we meet, for various different reasons. So Ernie and Zach are both very proud in different ways, and I think Hepzibah is obviously very proud of her collection and proud of her heritage. So I think, yeah, pride and Hufflepuff, hand in hand.

Alison: There’s an interesting Tumblr blog that a friend of mine showed me called “Sorting Hat Chats,” and they talk about this. They have a very interesting system that they’ve developed around Sorting, but one of the things – and my friend and I got into a debate about this – is, they talk about Hufflepuffs being very community-based. And that they have their community as what’s important, and everyone else is an Other, and so they aren’t quite as good as who’s in their circle, which we see here, where we see Zacharias Smith is skeptical of everyone [whom] he’s not close with that we see, and Hepzibah Smith doesn’t trust her own family, but she’ll entrust showing these relics to Voldemort who[m] she has come up with a relationship with, and it is talking about how Slytherins are similar in the way that they have their circles as well, that they are very protective of.

Rosie: Yeah. I think if you think about the badger as its emblem, that works really well because badgers… they have their sets and their rather large families, but they’re also incredibly protective of that family and incredibly violent toward anyone who is outside of that circle. So I don’t know about… American badgers are very different from English badgers, but English badgers in particular are very much like that. So I think it works as a perfect emblem for that particular trait, and yeah, you can see that in these people, so it would work.

Sabrina: Well, Cedric is a Hufflepuff, and he doesn’t really know Harry that well, but he still helps him in the Triwizard Tournament and stuff.

Rosie: That is true. Yeah. But only once Harry has helped him first. He doesn’t actually reach out until he has a favor to repay.

Michael: Well, yeah, I mean, I think that is a good example of the pride and protectiveness of that community, that Cedric is an example of that, too, where he doesn’t reach out until he feels comfortable reaching out to Harry.

Alison: And that’s the dark side of Hufflepuff, is that you get these… you get so engrained in your circle that you box out everyone else.

Michael: Oh, yeah, no, I think… at LeakyCon a few years ago – the one in Portland – I went to a Hufflepuff panel, and we were all talking about what are the good and bad of Hufflepuff, and that was definitely one that came up, that the pridefulness can be taken to an extreme, perhaps. And I think that’s a great connection, Rosie, of the pride and cunning, because I have known people and I have heard about people who actually… people considered this, I think, the most shocking split on Pottermore when you do the Sorting Hat quiz, but it is possible to have to choose between Hufflepuff and Slytherin. That can happen. And I remember the first time I saw that happen to somebody, I really thought about, “Why would that happen? “And I talked to my cousin, my cousin Kylie – shout-out to Kylie, hi, if you’re listening…

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: But she, actually, was the one who suggested it to me – I had never thought of it myself – that cunning and pride could go a long way if joined together. So and they’re really not too far apart from each other. And speaking of cunning and pride, the two things you would never think would be in the same room, they are in this chapter!

[Everyone laughs]

Michael: Hepzibah Smith reveals that she has two – not one, but two – very valuable objects from the Hogwarts founders in her possession. The first one she reveals is Hufflepuff’s cup, and the second one she reveals is Slytherin’s locket. And there were a few comments and questions I had about this. One of the big ones was… she implies that both of them have powers, including the cup. And I was like, “What powers does the cup have?”

Alison: Refilling powers! All of the things you want!

Michael: Food-related!

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Michael: Well, Rosie, maybe you could comment. I was thinking maybe something Holy Grail-like?

Rosie: That’s what I was just thinking, yeah. So if we’re going down the Holy Grail route, then it would suggest the cup would have powers of the idea of eternal life almost, so healing powers, some kind of restorative power, what you drink from the cup will benefit you in some way. In terms of our pride and cunning discussion, it’s quite interesting that you would have a cup and a locket because you would think that could either be gluttony and vanity, which go with pride and those… The traits work interestingly together, so it depends if you’re sharing the cup or if you’re using it yourself. But…

Michael: [laughs] That’s true.

Rosie: So that’s the two sides of Hufflepuff, though, isn’t it? So you’re either proud of what you have and you’re raising a toast to yourself or you’re sharing the cup and you’re giving the bounty to everyone around you. So it’s an interesting relic of Hufflepuff that it would be a cup.

Michael: Well, that really brings up a thought to me, because I did note, there'[re] so many fascinating things that I think are brought up by the fact that Voldemort goes after the cup in addition to…

Alison: Besides the fact that it makes everyone should love Hufflepuff because if Voldemort can appreciate Hufflepuff, I mean, come on.

Rosie: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

Michael: That was a big thing for me, is that Voldemort is in this situation. He’s putting Hufflepuff on equal footing with the other Houses. Which was shocking to me because Voldemort takes such pride in Slytherin. But this is the first acknowledgment that maybe the Houses are all on the same plane to him, in some way.

Sabrina: Well, when he’s burning the Sorting Hat, doesn’t he say something like, “There will be no more Sorting; we’ll just have everyone be in Slytherin” or something like that?

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: Pretty much, yeah.

Alison: But I think… and Dumbledore, I’m pretty sure, talks about this at one point, is that he’s so interested in the fact that it was four such powerful people who came together, that that’s why. He obviously thinks Slytherin should be the leader and the one who’s placed above everyone, but I think he really collects these because they’re all so powerful, and they created the one thing that Voldemort really came to love, which is Hogwarts. And everything Hogwarts symbolizes.

Michael: That’s true.

Rosie: Which is interesting because if you think about Hufflepuff as the one [who] will take the rest… So it’s not purest of blood [or] best power; it’s the one who takes the rest, and that would include all of the Muggle-borns if you were going… Well, not necessarily all of the Muggle-borns, most Muggle-borns, you would think, if you were of the belief that “pure-blood” means extra magical power. So for Voldemort to acknowledge Hufflepuff on the same level as the rest of them would suggest that taking the rest is fine as long as you are, well, subservient to Voldemort himself, but that everyone is on an equal playing field. Which kind of goes against everything we know about him, really. But then if we were to think of the cup as an eternal life suggestion, then Hufflepuff’s powers are the powers that Voldemort is most desperate for. Because we also associate her with Herbology, which would associate her with medical plants and again, with health and eternal life, so I think the essence of Hufflepuff and the ideas that Hufflepuff [has] are the ones that he strives most for and are the least magical of them all. They’re more earthy and therefore, ones that he perhaps doesn’t have as much knowledge of. So maybe he’s very interested in Hufflepuff for that particular reason.

Michael: Well, I think that’s a great explanation when we think about the other big thing that Voldemort will go after, which is the Elder Wand. And Voldemort has no reverence for the power of the Elder Wand; he just wants it because he’s heard what it can do.

Alison: Yeah. It’s powerful.

Michael: Yeah. He has no idea about the history or how it actually works.

Sabrina: The idea of him respecting Hufflepuff is interesting, though, because Peter Pettigrew is a Death Eater, and he’s from Gryffindor, and I think Quirrell is from Ravenclaw, and he worked for him, and of course, there'[re] a bunch of Death Eaters in Slytherin, but there [are]n’t any Death Eaters from Hufflepuff.

Rosie: That we know about.

Alison: Yeah, that we know of.

Michael: That’s true. That’s very true. Yeah, when it comes to Voldemort, there'[re] just some interesting bits and pieces about the Houses, and I think this chapter in particular really reveals a lot. The other thing I thought was worth noting is that… And I don’t remember – I was hoping maybe you three could remind me – does it ever say that Voldemort actively pursues a Gryffindor Horcrux to make?

Sabrina: Yeah, Or Dumbledore thinks so.

Michael: Is he looking? Okay.

Alison: I believe Dumbledore says he was looking for the sword because that was the only known relic of Gryffindor.

Rosie: Yeah. I think he looks at the same time…

Alison: But he never found it.

Rosie: Yeah, so when he finds the diadem, I think he was looking for the sword around the same time, but yeah, can’t find it.

Alison: Yeah, yeah. Because I think it’s also implied that he’s looking for it when he comes for this job at the end of the chapter.

Michael: Okay. Because yeah, I always found it interesting that Voldemort never achieves his perfect quartet of Hogwarts Houses.

Alison: Well, he kind of does.

Michael: Well, he kind of does but not of his own fault.

[Alison, Michael, and Rosie laugh]

Michael: But I did want to ask, do you guys think, as far as putting a Horcrux in these extremely valuable objects, which just kills me….

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: … did Voldemort negate whatever powers they had? Or did he amplify them? Did he turn them into some…? Did he morph them? Did the powers in the objects help his Horcrux in some way?

Alison: I could see severely Dark magic like that negating any good things they could have. So like if Hufflepuff’s cup did have some kind of healing power, I can see a Horcrux either ruining that or – I don’t know – switching it, where it could become… I don’t know.

Michael: It just spews maggots, right?

[Alison, Michael, and Rosie laugh]

Rosie: I wonder if it has something to do with the negative aspects of wearing the Horcruxes. So with Ron and the locket and the fact that it preys on his fears so much, I wonder if that has something to do with powers that the locket has. Because we never hear about the locket or the sword having particular powers. We hear about the diadem giving the wearer more knowledge, and we hear about this cup possibly having powers, but we don’t hear about the locket, and I just get the idea that Slytherin is the kind of person [who] would make this locket something that would imbibe some kind of emotion onto its wearer, whether it was a Horcrux or not. So if it preys on the fears or the insecurities of people, then it would work really well, considering the two people [whom] we have seen wear it. So Ron gets so insecure, and we see it completely destroy him, whereas Umbridge, who is the other person we actually see wearing this locket, just completely takes [it] on herself to become as powerful and as… I think she becomes quite paranoid, and that’s why she includes Moody’s eye on her door and things, and we see her being very aware of what other people are doing. And obviously, that works well with the centaurs and the paranoia that she has around them as well, but I think that the locket, if it is feeding [off of] peoples insecurities, then that paranoia would be exactly what it would latch onto.

Alison: Maybe its original purpose was to increase cunning and your awareness of everyone else, and maybe when the Horcrux gets added to it, it turns that dark, where it starts increasing your awareness of…

Rosie: … the negative things.

Alison: Yeah, the negative things. Whereas originally, maybe it just helped you see things clearly and figure out cunning plans from there.

Michael: Well, and that’s interesting, suggesting that if it originally had that, because that would explain why the locket has the ability in its own weird way to communicate and show visions. Because the only other Horcrux that, I believe, we see do that is the diary.

Rosie: Yeah, and that’s all down to Voldemort.

Michael: Yeah. There’s no definite answer that the cup or the diadem or the ring could do something like that.

Rosie: We really don’t see them do anything. They get destroyed so quickly after we find them that there’s just no time.

Sabrina: The locket also favors Umbridge, though, because she’s able to make a Patronus with the locket’s help, and Harry isn’t able to make a Patronus when he wears it because Harry is generally a good person, and Umbridge is just twisted and evil.

Michael: Which suggests that the locket already perhaps maybe had that inclination toward Dark people anyway.

Rosie: Well, it is Slytherin’s locket.

Michael: It is Slytherin’s locket.

[Sabrina laughs]

Michael: So there'[re] a lot of questions that are raised by this. The other point that I didn’t put in here that I just wanted to bring up that I was thinking of mulling over that is so fascinating, I think, about this segment is that, similarly, this is a precursor to the Deathly Hallows, in that we’re actually seeing tangible proof that the Hogwarts founders existed and that they did what they did. I think for me that’s one of the most exciting reveals about the book. Because the Hogwarts founders are almost put on the same level as Greek myth in the wizarding world, like all the things they did, but there’s no confirmation that they did them.

Rosie: Yeah. Other than Slytherin’s…

Michael: So it’s kind of fun to see them…

Alison and Michael: … Chamber.

Rosie: Although there was no plumbing.

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: No. But it is nice to see that the other Houses are starting to be recognized in that same way as well and that they’re… This is also a foreshadowing in how much of a role that’s going to play in Deathly Hallows. Interesting thing to note: The Horcrux count is currently at three by the time Voldemort obtains the cup. The locket is presumably turned into a Horcrux a little later, but the cup he does right away because Hepzibah Smith’s murder is required to make the cup a Horcrux.

Rosie: Is it not at four, maybe, already? Because I would say…

Michael: It’s at three because the diary’s done…

Alison: The ring, the diary…

Rosie: The locket…

Alison, Michael, and Rosie: … and the cup.

Michael: The locket’s not done yet because he probably…

Alison: Who is the locket?

Michael: The locket is a Muggle peasant [whom] he murders out and about. So I think that probably happens in the ten years…

Rosie: But I think that would happen soon.

Alison: Yeah, I do too.

Michael: Probably. Probably. But as far as the immediate…

Rosie: So we’re somewhere at three or four.

Sabrina: Well, we know he’s made three so far.

Michael: Yes. He’s definitely made three, so just a thing to note, especially when we go into the next memory. But before we do that, I know Sabrina also had another very fascinating point that she thought of.

Sabrina: So for the flash of red light when Merope is mentioned, is that because he was angry at her for having died and being weak that way or because she allowed herself to be taken advantage of and had the locket taken from her for a really low price?

Alison: I’ve always seen this as Voldemort… He thinks the locket still technically belongs to him. And so this is his moment of… I don’t know.

Rosie: “How dare they do that?” [laughs]

Alison: Yeah. Like, “How dare you have possession of something that should be mine, that is rightfully…” He thinks it’s rightfully his.

Michael: That’s interesting, because I always… and perhaps incorrectly, but I always interpreted it as basically, Hepzibah is like, “Your momma”…

[Alison, Michael, and Rosie laugh]

Michael: And Voldemort is like, “Ugh. Don’t you talk about my momma.”

[Alison and Rosie laughs]

Michael: Even though Voldemort apparently does not have… certainly at this point has lost his capacity to love because he’s split his soul at least two times while he’s talking to Hepzibah, he does have a… I think the first memory and what he finds out about his family I always assume made him have some sort of reverence for his mother because he does say that she couldn’t have been a witch because she was weak, but he does go […] kill his father and his whole family once he finds out what happened.

Rosie: But I’m not sure he does that in revenge for her. I think he does that for himself.

Michael: For himself, yeah.

Rosie: For being abandoned. But I do agree that it’s partly “Don’t talk about my momma,” but I think it’s also…

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Rosie: … “How dare you treat her like that” and not “How dare you scam her out of something that should be mine.” And yeah, he’s angry at the whole situation but not necessarily at Merope herself.

Michael: Yeah. I think that’s definitely a good way to interpret it. And that takes us into a bit of a ten-year gap, and we hop ahead to Voldemort coming to Dumbledore and asking to be a professor at Hogwarts. Now, that raises a lot of questions [in] itself.

Alison: That’s a terrifying thought. [laughs]

Michael: [laughs] Now, the first thing that’s interesting to note is Dumbledore mentions that Voldemort was offered positions at the Ministry, and he didn’t take them. And he gives reasons for why Voldemort didn’t do that, specifically citing that he felt more attached to Hogwarts and that he felt Hogwarts had more to offer as far as deeper magic. But the thing I was thinking about is, Voldemort would have had access to, potentially, the Department of Mysteries at his disposal, which could have opened a lot of doors.

Alison: Well, I don’t think he really would unless he became an Unspeakable. Because I’m pretty sure it’s stated somewhere that only Unspeakables know what’s going on in there.

Rosie: Yeah.

Sabrina: Not even the Minister of Magic?

Alison: Yeah. I think it says that no one else really knows what’s going on in there.

Michael: Mhm. Yeah, it brought that up… because he was basically… and we don’t find out the positions he was offered at the Ministry. Probably not an Unspeakable.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: But I was just thinking in terms of if that had been… that could have been a possible route for him to take in the pursuit of deeper magic.

Rosie: But I think he’s aware that the real power is the man behind the curtain…

Alison: Exactly.

Rosie: … in the same way that Lucius is very aware of that, and Lucius doesn’t become a politician for that exact reason.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: He’s the benefactor, he influences politicians, but he doesn’t want the power himself in that direct way…

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: … because it will take more responsibility and more bureaucracy, and Voldemort is just not interested in any of that.

Michael: That’s true.

Alison: Exactly.

Rosie: So he would have had the Ministry stuff to his advantage, but he would also [have] had all of the downsides of having to do an actual job, which I don’t think he would have wanted.

Michael: Mhm. Well, I was actually trying to think… because I don’t know too much about perhaps his early history as much as I should, because, as we know, there is a parallel in Voldemort to Hitler. Did Hitler immediately go for the top spots in politics, or was he just kind of arguing…

Alison: No, he tried to go to art school first. [laughs]

Michael: That’s what I thought. He didn’t take the, perhaps, expected route to get his message through. He often… from what I understand, he kind of banked on his ability as a very good public speaker before anything, before he got into office. So I thought that was just an interesting way to… that maybe Rowling was acknowledging that Voldemort is being tactical in that way – in a similar way to Hitler. But it does also raise other questions about whether… I was thinking, would Voldemort… if he had been successful in this, would he have been any more or less successful at Hogwarts? Would his rise to power have been different? And would he have even pursued his Horcrux plan if he had gotten in at Hogwarts? Because Dumbledore suspects that Voldemort would have attempted to build an army out of students.

Alison: And that’s the terrifying thing.

[Everyone laughs]

Sabrina: Well, the other thing, though, would be that he would be right under Dumbledore’s nose all the time if he were a teacher, so Dumbledore could presumably keep an eye on him. So that might hinder him.

Rosie: But that would also mean that he was closer to Dumbledore and therefore could kill him at some point.

Alison: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say.

Rosie: Maybe Dumbledore would have become the Gryffindor Horcrux.

Michael: That’s… well, yeah…

Alison: Ooh.

Michael: … Voldemort has already killed people within Hogwarts…

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: Yeah.

Michael: … and gotten away with it, so that’s true.

Rosie: Do we know if Myrtle was the diary Horcrux, by the way? Is that the death that…

Alison: Yes, she was.

Michael: Yes, she was. Myrtle Warren, by the way. [laughs]

Rosie: Yay! [laughs]

Michael: Myrtle Elizabeth Warren. Just throwing that out there, listeners.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Sabrina: Apparently it’s a coincidence.

Michael: Yes, a complete coincidence, but nice little reveal there.

Rosie: So just… I’m aware that there’s some controversy about Elizabeth Warren. Is that a current politician, or someone else, in America?

Alison: I don’t know enough about politics. [laughs]

Michael: Yeah, she’s from Oklahoma. She’s a senator.

Rosie: All right, okay. Just because I think there’s an Elizabeth Warren in the Salem witch trials as well, which just…

Sabrina: My grandmother is yelling the explanation at the screen right now.

[Everyone laughs]

Rosie: Fair enough.

Michael: We should all know better.

Rosie: Yeah, I think we’re kind of aware that Jo picked that middle name out of the air.

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: But Myrtle Warren was there originally anyway, so it’s just nice to give her a bit more of a backstory.

Michael: Oh, Ms. Elizabeth Warren flipped from Republican to Democrat, apparently, [laughs] in 1996.

Alison: Okay.

Michael: So that’s probably worth noting [laughs] about her history.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: But yes, a complete coincidence as far as Myrtle is concerned.

Rosie: Yep. [laughs]

Michael: And speaking again of the Horcruxes, the reason I noted three in the last chapter is because by this count Voldemort has between four to five Horcruxes, by this time. And I was wondering if this is perhaps the reason for Voldemort’s horrid physical deterioration, or if there [are] other factors in play for why… Because what I found interesting about the physical deterioration is that Harry notes in the early chapters that Voldemort seems to be self-aware that he’s good-looking because he uses it to his advantage.

Alison: Mhm. Well, I mean, he’s probably not getting enough vitamin D and such, but…

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: … I definitely think… Just the way it’s described, because it says [that] his face is blurry and it looks like melted wax…

Michael: Mhm.

Alison: … and just that is so grotesque…

Michael: Mhm.

Sabrina: Mhm.

Alison: … and seems so wrong that I think it’s definitely at least the biggest causing factor for what’s happening to him.

Michael: Hmm. Yeah, that’s…

Rosie: I think he’s also… It’s not just Horcruxes. He’s also a lot darker in what he’s actually doing…

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: … at this moment in time. So yes, he’ll have deteriorated his soul to the point of five Horcruxes, perhaps.

Michael: Yeah.

Rosie: I think it’s more likely to be four at the moment. He hasn’t found the diadem yet – that’s what he does on this particular trip.

Alison: Isn’t he depositing the diadem on this trip?

Michael: Yes, he is. He’s putting it away.

Alison: Because he’s found it.

Rosie: Oh, because he found it in a… Yeah, sure.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: In which case, yeah, he probably would have five.

Sabrina: This also brings up the evil-ugly argument because as Voldemort is becoming more evil he’s becoming more ugly.

Alison: Yeah. Yeah.

Rosie: Yes.

Michael: That’s true. But wasn’t he rather despicable and…

Alison: Yeah. [laughs]

Michael: … horrible…? I mean…

Sabrina: Doing more evil things.

Michael: That’s true. That’s interesting because in a way that could either strengthen the “evil is ugly” argument or it could detract from it.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: I think in this case that’s a big thing there. Because, again, I just find it so interesting that Voldemort has his good looks as an advantage and that he gets rid of that. And he still has things that he’s perhaps pursuing as objects, but he’s not using his looks to get them anymore.

Rosie: Yeah. I think there’s an interesting comparison to Dorian Gray, isn’t there?

Michael: Yes, yes.

Alison: Yeah.

Rosie: That as Dorian becomes more powerful, the picture becomes more ugly but he himself stays beautiful.

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: Whereas Voldemort is not interested in the image – he’s only interested in the power…

Michael: Mhm.

Rosie: … and therefore, he has no need for the picture. He is happy to become a physical deterioration himself as long as he remains powerful and he remains everlasting. It’s interesting, I think, that the desire for eternal life is stronger than the desire to remain the same eternally.

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: Yes.

Rosie: He doesn’t mind that he’s changing. He almost revels in it, I think, that he becomes snake-like.

Alison: I wonder if some of it wasn’t purposeful, if some of it could be accidental, because Harry specifically mentions that he realizes that this isn’t the same Voldemort that comes out of the cauldron. Which is interesting to me that she would bring up the cauldron because he talks about, after he comes out of there, that it’s of his own invention, this Regeneration Potion. And so I wonder if some of this deterioration is also coming from other experiments he’s doing to try [to] find a way to live eternally.

Sabrina: Also, when he comes out of the cauldron, it’s the first time he’s in a body since he made the Harry Horcrux, which is also a Horcrux.

Rosie: Yeah, so this is him at Point 4 or 5. By the time he’s out of the cauldron, he’s at Point 8, so…

Alison: Yeah. [laughs]

Michael: Yeah. Well, yeah, because, presumably, too, when he recreates his body in the cauldron, there'[re] elements in that potion that would probably not exactly replicate his previous body. There'[re] probably a few things that were new, or different at least. So yeah, that was definitely…

Rosie: He’s got to have some Wormtail traits in there.

[Everyone laughs]

Alison: Oh, gosh!

Michael: Yes, he did take his hand.

[Rosie laughs]

Michael: It is also… I just thought it was worth reading these three quotes that I picked out; I’m sure there might even be more. And I noted this again, in a previous chapter relating to the memories, the Harry/Voldemort comparisons have been returning in full force here.

Rosie: Yes, extremely strong.

Michael: Yes, and I can’t imagine why.

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Michael: On page 431, Dumbledore says to Harry, “[as Dumbledore] ‘Hogwarts was where he had been happiest; the first and only place he’d felt at home.’ Harry felt slightly uncomfortable at these words, for this was exactly how he felt about Hogwarts too.” Then, not ten pages later, we’re in Dumbledore’s memory, and Voldemort has just come into the office and says, “[as Dumbledore] ‘Good evening, Tom,’ said Dumbledore easily. [as Dumbledore] ‘Won’t you sit down?’ [as Voldemort] ‘Thank you,’ said Voldemort, and he took the seat to which Dumbledore had gestured – the very seat, by the looks of it, that Harry had just vacated in the present.” And one more, on page 432, when Harry asks what position Voldemort wanted, and he said, “[as Harry] ‘Which job did he want, sir? Which subject did he want to teach?’ Somehow, Harry knew the answer even before Dumbledore gave it. [as Dumbledore] ‘Defense Against the Dark Arts.'”

Sabrina: The last one also ties in Snape because the three of them have a lot in common.

Michael: That’s very true. Yeah, there’s…

Alison: Their favorite subject.

Michael: Yeah, the reveal about that Defense Against the Dark Arts is big because the chapter ends with the resolution to the long-unanswered Defense Against the Dark Arts curse mystery. Which, to me… there are so many satisfying moments in Harry Potter, but this has to be one of the cleanest, most satisfying, out-of-nowhere reveals by Rowling in the series. It’s just a nice little touch that she didn’t necessarily even have to finish. But she wraps it up so nicely by having Dumbledore mention that somehow, for some reason, nobody’s been able to stay in the Defense Against the Dark Arts position for more than a year since Voldemort came and requested to be the teacher. And it is pretty definitively set that Voldemort is the one who placed the curse. [laughs]

Rosie: Is that partly circle theory as well? Is that first mentioned when Lockhart leaves?

Alison: Oh, hey!

Michael: Is it? Because I feel like that’s mentioned with Quirrell.

Alison: No, it’s mentioned in the first book.

Rosie: Is it definitely? Even though Quirrell had already been there twice?

Alison: I’m pretty sure Hagrid says something about like, “It’s brave of him because the job’s rumored to be cursed” or something like that. I’m pretty sure that’s…

Michael: Listeners, look it up for us.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Michael: If you find it, let us know. Because that would be an interesting thing to see if that links up. It’s definitely prominent in Book 2 because Lockhart is the second one to leave.

Rosie: Yeah, I think just… because Quirrell is an interesting case because we know that he’s been there as a teacher for more than one year. So he… it’s weird because he’d been on this trip, but we think that he had been a teacher beforehand, and then he’s come back. So it’s interesting…

Alison: He was at a different subject, though.

Michael: Yeah, he was teaching a different subject. He used to be…

Rosie: But do we know that for sure?

Alison: Yeah.

Michael: Yes, that’s Pottermore-confirmed.

Rosie: Do we know what subject he was teaching?

Michael: Believe it was Muggle Studies.

Rosie: Because… okay. Maybe. I don’t know.

Michael: But he was. That’s definitely canon, actually. That’s on Pottermore. So…

Sabrina: When Voldemort dies, I think it’s assumed that the curse is lifted, so couldn’t it have been a clue that Voldemort wasn’t dead before that the curse was still there?

Alison and Michael: Oh!

Michael: Maybe that was one of…

Rosie: Maybe, but it’s not clear enough that… you can curse people… the tradition with curses that we know in a general knowledge is that they last after you’ve died. You can be cursed for eternity until something happens to break the curse. And it’s not necessarily connected to the curser dying. So I don’t think it in itself would be a clue that Voldemort was still alive. But it is interesting that it would then break.

Michael: I think the Harry Potter series usually seems to suggest that when somebody dies, any curse or magic they’ve placed is lifted. But that’s not necessarily always true. I mean, Mad-Eye Moody manages to put a curse on Grimmauld Place that doesn’t deactivate when he dies.

Rosie: Yeah, that lingers after his death.

Michael: So yeah, I guess that perhaps may be just a case-by-case.

Sabrina: He’s probably paranoid enough to have come up with some back-up thing in case he died.

[Michael laughs]

Rosie: And don’t forget the Sticking Curses on the portraits in Grimmauld Place as well.

Michael: In Grimmauld Place, that’s true. That’s true, so there are curses that do last. I guess maybe it’s a curse-by-curse basis perhaps.

Rosie: Yeah. [laughs]

Michael: Hahaha.

Rosie: So it’s too difficult to know whether or not the curse is permanent just while it’s still there.

Michael: Yes. And I did want to just wrap up the chapter, not just with the Defense Against the Dark Arts mystery, but I just wanted to point out… I wanted to just touch on this a little because this is one of my favorite chapters in the book, and I think it’s because, to me, it’s one of the most edge-of-your-seat chapters for me, probably because of the Hepzibah Smith stuff because, until Deathly Hallows, I don’t know if we ever actually see Voldemort talking to somebody moments before he’s going to kill them.

Rosie: And we’re so aware that we know what’s going to happen as well. Even though it’s never explicitly said. We know what’s going to happen.

Michael: There’s something so richly – in a way almost – cinematic about that scene. I think that’s one of the most disappointing memories, for me, that’s not in the film.

Rosie: Yeah. And it would [have] be[en] so easy to have included [it] as well.

Michael: Yeah. I think it would have been one of the most… I think, out of all of these, for the movie’s sake, it was actually one of the most important that got cut.

Sabrina: Yeah, [it] probably is because it has a house-elf in it, which…

Michael: Expensive. Well, and it doesn’t really directly involve Harry as much as the other ones do.

Rosie: But it’s useful in terms of explaining the plot and why that Horcrux is important because…

Michael: It’s very essential for Deathly Hallows.

Rosie: … for the people who don’t know the stories who then watch Deathly Hallows, they’ve got no idea why they’re chasing after this cup in the… yeah.

Alison: Exactly. Which is my problem with the sixth movie.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Alison: We’ll get there. We’ll get there.

Sabrina: That, and the fact that they have to squeeze in the whole Lupin and Tonks getting together thing in the beginning of the seventh movie.

Michael:So last-minute. I also felt like maybe the reason for that… I noticed more this chapter than I think any other he’s appeared in, perhaps maybe the exception being the graveyard scene, Voldemort is treated to some of the richest descriptions I think he is ever given. So many beautiful and terrifying adjectives are used to describe Voldemort and fill out his character in a way that I don’t think we’ve really seen before.

Alison: He becomes more of a person in this scene instead of just a name or a threat. He’s… it’s one of the reasons why I love this book, is through these memories, we get so much of a rounded… this is a human being. This is a character. It’s a person [who] is doing all these things, [who] has caused so much fear and destruction. It’s not just an abstract idea.

Rosie: And it’s amazing that these descriptions, coming in a sixth book and having had this villain for so long, don’t jar with your imagination. They add to it, and you can have this beautiful description of this very attractive man who then deteriorates into whatever it is that you’ve imagined without it ever seeming out of place that it will… it’s not telling you that you were wrong in any way. You can have your own imagination. You can have your own picture of Voldemort, and that will stay valid no matter what you now will imagine Tom Riddle [to] look like because you can trace your own deterioration from one point to the other, and there’s so much talent in being able to create that. Yeah, it’s just brilliant.

Michael: Yeah, well, and with Rowling’s ability to… I recognize this as being a very challenging thing to do recently, because I don’t know if anyone of you ha[s] played this – and listeners, maybe you’ll understand this – there’s a game by Quantic Dream. They also did the game Heavy Rain, but they did this game… and actually, that’s very appropriate because there’s very heavy rain outside my house right now…

[Alison laughs]

Michael: But there’s another game they recently did called Beyond: Two Souls with Ellen Page and Willem Dafoe, and the game jumps the timeline of this character’s life a lot, and in the end, the reveals by jumping the timeline don’t really serve to be shocking to the storyline, and I think what’s so well done here is, Rowling so perfectly jumps Voldemort’s timeline in ways that perfectly reveal what’s needed at just the right times. Because we play around in Voldemort’s storyline a lot, and it’s not linear, so I was thinking in terms of this chapter, especially in relation to Half-Blood Prince as a whole, I think it has a very satisfying balance of satisfying answers and tantalizing questions. Yeah, we’re still… we’ve heard the word “Horcrux,” and now we’ve seen here that Voldemort is collecting very precious items, and Dumbledore has suggested that there is a connection. We have more answers about what Voldemort has been up to, but we still have just as many questions. We also have a very nice answer that rounds off the Defense Against the Dark Arts storyline and even some stuff about the relationships and where they’re going. This just seems to… for those of you listeners who have been very frustrated with Half-Blood Prince up to now, I kind of feel like maybe this is the point of the story where the train has gone into overdrive. [laughs]

Rosie: This is the beginning of the third act. Which is interesting because it is Chapter 20. So you can easily cut this book into three lots of ten chapters. And this is very much the beginning of the third act, where everything is starting to pick up, and everything is starting to actually work toward that climax.

Michael: Which will come in future episodes. Because this is the end of Chapter 20: “Lord Voldemort’s Request.”

Alison: All right, so now that we’re at the end of the chapter, we are going to get to our Podcast Question of the Week for this week. And this has to do with something we kind of touched on but didn’t talk about a lot, and that is this supposed cursed placed on the Defense Against the Dark Arts teaching position. So in this chapter, we learn that Voldemort has indeed placed a curse on the position. So how exactly does this happen? How does one place a curse on an abstract idea such as a teaching position, and how exactly does it stay in place? Did he place the curse on the office or some other part of the physical castle, or could this possibly be some wild coincidence and not a real curse at all? So let us know what you think over on alohomora.mugglenet.com in the comments.

Rosie: And all that remains is for us to thank our lovely guest, Sabrina. I hope you’ve enjoyed your time on this show.

Sabrina: Thanks. I did.

Michael: Oh, good. We know you’ve been waiting a long time, so we’re…

Sabrina: Yeah, sorry for complaining about that.

Michael: [laughs] Oh, no, not at all. We understand. We had a lot of backlog of people who wanted to be on it. We’re so glad we had you on because you were a very great guest. You contributed a lot, so thank you so much for being on, and we know you’ll be still posting lots of comments on the site as well, so I expect to see even more from you in future. And listeners, if you would like to be on the show, just like Sabrina, you can visit the “Be on the Show” page at alohomora.mugglenet.com. As we’ve been trying to remind you, now’s the time to submit – even if you’re nervous, put that audition through – because as Kat reminded us all just recently, we only have about a year left.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Michael: Which is a little bit of a traumatic realization for all of us. And as Rosie said, we are at the third act of Half-Blood Prince, so we don’t have much more left. To be on the show, you really don’t need anything too fancy. If you’ve got some headphones with a built-in microphone, if you have a built-in microphone on your laptop, or a separate mic, that’s really all you need, as well as a recording program. And while you’re at alohomora.mugglenet.com looking up all those ways to be on the show, make sure [to] download a free ringtone while you’re on our main site.

Rosie: And don’t forget, there are many other ways to contact us as well. You can find us on Twitter at @AlohomoraMN [and] on Facebook at facebook.com/openthedumbledore. We’re on Tumblr at mnalohomorapodcast, and you can give us a phone call [at] 206-GO-ALBUS – that’s 206-462-5287. Don’t forget: You can also find us on audioBoom, which you can actually find on the alohomora.mugglenet.com site – there’s a little button on the sidebar – and that’s completely free. All you need is a microphone and [to] record your message. Please do keep it under 60 seconds if possible. Also, I just want to say very quickly, if you want to listen to any of the past shows, there are playlists on audioBoom where you can actually go back and listen to a whole book’s worth of Alohomora! episodes, so do go and check those out as well.

Alison: And if you are on our website leaving an audioBoom or checking out how to be on the show, make sure you also check out our store where we’ve got so many different products, including House shirts, Desk!Pig, Mandrake Liberation Front, Minerva is my homegirl, and so many more.

Michael: And as always, we want to let you know about our smartphone app: the Alohomora! smartphone app. It is available [in a British accent] all over the Muggle world, and if you can’t get it, you’re magic.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Michael: [in a British accent] And it’s available on this side of the pond and the other.

[Alison laughs]

Michael: This just necessitates a British accent. Rosie should really be permanently assigned to this line.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Michael: Prices vary depending on your location. On that app it includes transcripts, bloopers, alternate endings, host vlogs, and more. And as I said, this week I will be reading that comment from Hufflepuffskein, that little mini fan fic[tion] that was written for that, so you’ll be hearing that on the app this week. But for now, we say so long, farewell, because I’m pretty sure some Dementors have showed up outside my house.

[Sound of a storm in the background]

Michael: It is raining like crazy and it wasn’t like this before, [laughs] so we’re going to head out for now.

Rosie: [laughs] Oh dear!

[Show music begins]

Michael: I’m Michael Harle.

Alison: I’m Alison Siggard.

Rosie: And I’m Rosie Morris. Thank you very much for listening to Episode 138 of Alohomora!

Michael: Open the Dumbledore!

[Show music continues]

Rosie: This is a long episode.

Michael: Which is good because I know the listeners were sad because last week was short.

Alison: I know.

[Michael laughs]

Alison: I’ve also gotten…

Rosie: There was just nothing to talk about last week.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Alison: I’ve also gotten more texts in the past two hours than I think I’ve gotten in the past two days.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Michael: The weather has literally become exactly opposite of what it was while we have been recording here.

[Alison and Michael laugh]

Rosie: That’s not good.

Alison: I thought I was going to get poured on as I was walking home from school, but it hasn’t hit yet so…

Michael: [laughs] Every time we say “Say something funny,” I always think of all those wizard swears from the Potter Puppet Pals.

[Alison and Rosie laugh]

Alison: Oh gosh!

Michael: Dragon bogeys!

[Michael and Rosie laugh]

Michael: Voldemort’s nipple!

[Everyone laughs]

Sabrina: This could be a blooper, I guess.

[Michael and Rosie laugh]