Episode 232: Shipping Wars – The Best in Both of Them

It’s time to discuss all our favorite ships in the Harry Potter series and ones the fandom has thought up too! Join hosts Kristen, Alison, Haley and guest host Aureo, as we prepare for battle into the shipping wars.

On Episode 232 we discuss…

→ Book vs Movie Hinny
Our OTPs
→ Early Ships
→ Friendships
→ True Love
→ Fan Fiction Ships
→ Dean & Seamus all the way!
→ Bromances
→ Weird Ships

To listen to the show, simply click the player below or direct download the episode. You can also subscribe to us on iTunes. For more information about the podcast and to find out how to be on the show, check out our Be On The Show! page.

Skype users can send us a message to username AlohomoraMN. And as always, be sure to continue the discussion below!

Listen Now: | Download


RECAP: EPISODE 231

On this recap we discuss…

→ All the tears
→ Lupin love
→ Bashing on not enough Lupin love
→ Choices
→ Jean Grey comparison

Listen Now: | Download

  • frumpybutsupersmart

    First off, as usual, fantastic episode. I have a lot of Feelings about ships and stuff, but the main thing I wanted to discuss was the idea that every male-male relationship is romanticised in fandom. I absolutely agree that fans do tend to pair men together very quickly, but these pairings are almost NEVER made canon. Obviously there’s a lot of shipping in the internet community (things like Johnlock and Merthur are familiar even to people who don’t watch the shows), but that doesn’t make them actual LGBTQ+ representation. Of course the willingness of fandom to immediately romanticise male-male relationships can go overboard, oftentimes the hypothetical relationships are the only way people can see themselves in fiction. I think basically what I’m saying is, that while there definitely needs to be affectionate platonic relationships between two men, there needs to be a balance between platonic and romantic relationships between men.

    When it comes to Albus and Scorpius, personally, I totally ship them – and they would have been the first actual gay relationship in the entire HP universe. And it’s not like deep friendships between men aren’t shown in HP – you guys pointed out Harry and Ron, and there’s also James and Sirius, and Sirius and Remus, Neville and Harry and Ron; none of it is canonically gay, and all of it is wonderful. I just disagree with the idea that there need to be more deep male-male friendships in HP at the expense of LGBTQ+ relationships.

    • goblet-of-fiyah

      Yeah, I roll my eyes so hard every time I hear “But we need to see more deep male friendships!” from anyone. Your examples in HP are great, but it goes beyond that too. Deep male friendships make up SUCH a large proportion of media. You’ve got… almost every buddy comedy movie ever, all those movies about teenage boys (à la Stand By Me), Sherlock Holmes and all it’s adaptations, etc. And let’s not forget that despite all the fan fiction, Kirk/Spock is not actually canon.

      Are there also awful expectations that men don’t express emotion? Yes, certainly. But there’s also a lot of pushback on that.

      Moreover, if we’re looking for LGBT+ representation, who are we supposed to ship? Of course we’re going to choose the characters that have deep bonds.

      • frumpybutsupersmart

        Yeah it always irked me when showrunners would get annoyed because a male-male ship was so popular in their fandom – but if you’re going to make your show 90% male (lookin’ at you, Supernatural) don’t be surprised when the developed characters are the ones being shipped. Like, if you so desperately want your popular ships to be straight, then invest in some decent female characters for a change.

        That being said, I do understand the difference between superficial male friendship a la buddy cops and deep emotional friendships between men, but there is actually a fair few of the latter when you start looking. Jake and Boyle from Brooklyn Nine-Nine are a good example – buddy cops who also deeply love one another!

        • Katy

          Jake and Boyle are THE CUTEST!!!

      • The Doormat’s Memories

        Me too! Part of the reason fandom starts shipping a lot of these deep male friendships is because the LGBTQ representation is not there otherwise! I will never argue that toxic masculinity isn’t an issue. I do think there are awful expectations on men to not express emotion, but this idea that the media doesn’t portray deep male friendships is a myth. Because a lot of those ships in fanfic ARE deep male friendships in canon. Whereas the LGBTQ representation is often not there.

        Of course we’re going to go for characters who already have deep bonds. You know, the same as people often do when shipping straight non-canon pairings, Harmony anyone? Where are the people shouting “but we need to see more platonic male-female friendships!”?

        I am a Scorbus shipper, if their relationship had been romantic and not another HP example of a deep male friendship (of which, as has been said, there are many), it would have been the one saving grace of Cursed Child. HP has done the close male friends thing. Many times over. What it hasn’t done is actually show a same-sex relationship. For the people who try to argue that maybe Scorpius is bi, yeah, that’s my headcanon too, but it would have made more of an impact if he’d asked Albus to the ball instead of Rose.

  • BloodCharm

    Haven’t listened yet, but Harry and Ginny being together was kind of boring once they did get together and would have been more interesting if it had been with someone new, although Ginny was a somewhat underused character up until book 5 and her being expanded was definitely a good idea. Harry and Hermione just doesn’t sit well with me. Hermione and Draco? Hell no. Honestly, shipping is really not my thing, although more gay romances would be appreciated.

  • Lisa

    I’m fairly sure the “Draco having a crush on Hermione” is a fandom thing, I don’t remember JKR ever saying that. It’s one of those rumours that ended up having a life of its own so much so that people forgot it was completely made up.

    To me, the worst ship of the series is definitely Harry/Ginny. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with the idea of Hinny but the execution is a disaster. I don’t buy that it was love. It was a sexual attraction, period. And hey, there’s nothing wrong with that. Ginny’s a pretty, easy going girl and Harry is a hormonal teenager. Good for them if they got it on. However, don’t pretend like they’re soul mates or like it’s some sort of love for the ages. It was very obvious in the books that Harry didn’t mind snogging Ginny and having fun with her, but then he went back to Hermione and Ron to share his thoughts, feelings, and strategies with. There is no depth to Hinny, either in the movies or in the books. I expected a bit more from the protagonist’s romance to be honest.

    Also, can people stop bending themselves into pretzels trying to make Rowling’s statements about Ron/Hermione seem positive. She said they were incompatible. That’s not a good thing, IMO, but it’s also not a big deal that she isn’t supporting this ship anymore. Ron/Hermione is still canon and there’s no way for her to decanonize it unless she rewrites the books. What she personally believes shouldn’t matter as much as what’s written down, though I can understand Romione fans being disappointed (however, considering what jerks many Romione fans were to Harmonians, I can’t say I’m too sorry they got their just desserts. cough cough ship wars).

    • Gryffindork

      Yes, yes, yes to everything you said! Especially those ship wars… I was a loud and proud Harry/Hermione shipper for many years (I don’t know who I’m kidding, I still am) and I will never forget that old MuggleNet interview where Emerson called us “delusional” to J.K. Rowling! Oh boy, we wore that one as a badge of pride for a long time… (Pretty sure “Proudly delusionsal” was in my forum signatures for months after that!) Then that interview with Emma and Jo came out, and it was like the clouds parted and a choir of angels were singing in perfect HARMONY

      tl;dr Harry/Hermione forever. Sorry hosts.

      • UmbridgeRage

        I asked this above but since you identify as a Harmony shipper can you please explain it to me. I just can’t see it, at all. It’s like those “magic 3D prints” that used to be a thing. What appeared to be a picture of a bunch of dots would form an image if you look at them in a certain way. I could never see those stupid things and I feel i’m missing the picture with Harmony in the same way.

        • Gryffindork

          Honestly, for me it was just mostly that they were my two favorite characters so I just really wanted them to love each other as much as I loved them! I mean, Hermione is *obviously* an awesome female heroine and you see the whole series from Harry’s point of view, so you definitely grow to love and sympathize with him. It just made sense to me, somehow!

          Plus, they are both outsiders to this magical world that they’ve found themselves thrown into. I suppose I always imagined them bonding over their Muggle childhoods as well (even though Harry’s childhood was a bit less happy than Hermione’s). ¯_(ツ)_/¯

          • UmbridgeRage

            Cool. So I’m not really missing anything other than a wish fulfillment thing. Seams strange to me that we had a “Ship War” over this but then I also knew there was a good reason I stayed away from shipping and fan-fiction. Thanks for the response.

          • Lisa

            Not a Harmonian myself, but I think one of the appeals of this ship is that Harry and Hermione share more important moments together than Harry and Ginny. Many people like the idea of a good relationship starting with a good friendship rather than starting with, um, hormones? But yeah, ship wars are pointless. Which ships one enjoys is a matter of taste and therefore no reason to debate it that fiercely.

          • UmbridgeRage

            I don’t think we can discount the “Hollywood effect” around Harry/Hermione either. That expectation that these would end up together because they are the main guy and girl. Also the movies being released while the books were still coming out didn’t help at all. Especially since in the movies give us Super Hermione and Sidekick Ron.

          • ASiriusPotterhead

            Ugh yes, let’s not discuss Super Hermione and Sidekick Ron. WHY HOLLYWOOD, WHYYYY?!?!

  • SlytherinKnight

    Hey all, bare with me because this will be a post of decent length.

    First off, I do want to say I did enjoy the episode as usual, the entire Alohomora team and guest hosts do a wonderful job. This might seem like a nit-picky issue but I wish that for the hosts/guest hosts, that there had been at least one person who disagreed with the canon pairings. All four of the hosts essentially had the same mind set regarding the canon pairings of Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione, that they were great. This seems a lot like the first Great Snape Debate episode when all the hosts were anti-Snape, and you guys did another episode about Snape with the conscious effort of evening the playing field so to speak.

    There was the point brought up by one host who agreed with Michael about the ‘Thor Cup’ moments needed regarding Harry/Ginny, and I totally agree with that. I think one host brought up the Grimmauld Place scene in which Ginny points out that she knows what it’s like to be possessed by Voldemort, I so wish that JK Rowling had expanded on that scene (perhaps she did but the editors cut it out), as it would have added some much needed depth for the pairing, also JK Rowling could have easily thrown in a sentence in Goblet of Fire having Ginny publicly state that she believed Harry about entering the Tournament (Hermione is the only one who publicly says she believes Harry), that would have two easily fixes to add much needed depth to that pairing and would have kept Ginny in people’s minds in the middle books (Ginny only really appears in any substance in book 6).

    The Ron/Hermione discussion made me cringe a bit (full disclosure, I am a Harry/Hermione fan but I do accept canon, except for Cursed Child). All of the hosts seemed to just love the pairing, and see no real flaws with it. To me, Ron never really gets past the stage of the young boy who picks on the girl he likes, maybe he does that in the 19 years later time period, but nothing is shown really in the books or films. I will say thought that Ron/Hermione is much more developed than Harry/Ginny, due to their shared ‘screen’ time in the books and films. This reaction could also stem from my belief that Ron doesn’t deserve Hermione, due to his actions throughout the series, and that I see myself in Hermione due to being the bookish, nerdy kid who didn’t have a lot of friends growing up.

    There was a point brought up by one of the hosts, talking about how James and Lily are looking down from heaven at Harry and James says something about how Harry finally notices Ginny, and how they look just like us etc. Well, I’d like to point out that Harry/Ginny is pretty much an reversal of James/Lily. My points are:
    1. Harry looks just like James with Lily’s eyes, while Ginny looks just like Lily with James’ eyes.
    2. Ginny is pretty much a female James
    2a. Both are very talented at Quidditch
    2b. Both are very popular with their classmates
    2c. Both are very talented with magic.
    2d. Both enjoy a good prank, or are pranksters
    2e. Both do have a mean streak in them that some might consider inappropriate/bullying
    2f. And both are seemingly the apples of their parents’ eyes.

    Regarding the Wonderland interview between JK Rowling and Emma Watson, I certainly agree that people went completely overboard with the misquotes taken from the interview. I will also say that there was more to that interview than some people might think, the following quote “What I will say is that I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfillment. That’s how it was conceived, really. For reasons that have very little to do with literature and far more to do with me clinging to the plot as I first imagined it, Hermione with Ron.” is where I see something more. To me, JK Rowling is saying that she did initially have Hermione and Ron together when she first plotted out the story. But then as the story progressed and the characters became more fully developed, there was a time in which the characters began to take her pairings down a different path, and then she went back to the initial pairings in the end. And that somewhat explains the drastic character shifts of Harry and Hermione that we see after Order of the Phoenix.

    Also there is the Twilight-effect as I call it. Twilight is all about pairings, nothing else. And I am sure that the Half-Blood Prince movie was affected by the success (yuck) of the Twilight books and film, and that’s why the HBP movie is, to me, a teenage romantic-comedy with maybe 20 minutes of good dark action.

    Sorry about the very long post but I wanted to get these points off my chest. Keep up the outstanding work.

    • Lisa

      I never really understood why Harry is believed to “deserve” Hermione while Ron isn’t. Ron and Harry get along so well because they’re so alike. Both hate schoolwork, neither of them is particularly intellectual, both love sports, both had mediocre grades. Harry is a bit more sympathetic towards SPEW than Ron is but he’s not nearly as devoted to the house elves’ plight as Hermione is. Harry just happened to be chosen by Voldemort so he went through more difficult moments than Ron and had more of a chance to prove himself. That doesn’t make him more worthy of Hermione or in any way a better person than Ron, IMO.

      Also, grades really aren’t everything, guys. The way this fandom worships Hermione like she’s some sort of godess because she doesn’t get Bs is just strange sometimes. Looking at the Muggle world, the true visionaries we have aren’t always people who got amazing grades in school. I’m not trivializing Hermione’s cleverness and good for her that she became the Minister of magic and all that but it doesn’t make her a superior human being.

      • frumpybutsupersmart

        Also the argument that Hermione ‘deserves’ someone ‘better’ completely discounts what Hermione wants. They even address how this argument sounds IN THE BOOKS: ‘Tonks deserves somebody young and whole’ ~ ‘But she wants *you*!’

        • SlytherinKnight

          That is a very good point.

      • SlytherinKnight

        I never said that Harry deserves Hermione, and I suppose deserve is the wrong word, perhaps to me, Ron isn’t worthy of Hermione. Maybe that is putting Hermione on a pedestal but she is my favorite character.

    • goblet-of-fiyah

      Love your point about Ginny being more similar to James than to Lily! I know Harry LOOKS like James, but he’s really very little like him in personality, in my opinion.

  • Paigers

    Loved the episode so much! So I think a lot of the appeal about the Remus/Sirius ship is the drama that we know went down in their friendship. We know about the Prank and about how they suspected each other of being the spy later, and then the reunion they get later. Adding that romantic element makes it so compelling. Long lost lovers torn apart by tragedy and lies and all that, then reunited. But it’s also so, so tragic, because you know, they die and everything. That’s why I can’t exactly ship it canon-style, but it’s so, so fun in fanfic.

    Because someone (Kristen, I think it was?) asked, the canon “evidence” that most commonly gets brought up is how they are living together in OotP, how they give Harry that joint gift for Christmas, and most of all, the following quotes from the scene where Molly and Sirius argue about Harry:

    “Lupin’s eyes were fixed on Sirius.” Then, a page of arguing later: “‘Personally,’ said Lupin quietly, looking away from Sirius at last…”

    It’s called the Forty-Line Stare in certain corners of fandom. It’s even got its own Urban Dictionary page apparently, lol: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Forty-Line%20Stare

    We also get this tidbit from that scene:

    “’Molly, you’re not the only person at this table who cares about Harry,’ said Lupin sharply. ‘Sirius, sit down.’
    Mrs. Weasley’s lower lip was trembling. Sirius sank slowly back into his chair, his face white.”

    A lot of people read this scene as Lupin more or less acting as Sirius’s partner, watching him so carefully and being the one who is able to get him to do as he says calm down. I personally interpret it as something born out of many years of friendship and knowing precisely how unreasonable and cruel Sirius can be, but I do understand the romantic interpretation there. It’s clearly written to indicate a close connection there.

    Anywho, as far as fic, there are about a million Wolfstar fanfics, but the most famous ones are:

    “The Shoebox Project,” which is a really big, cool multimedia Marauders era thing, http://shoebox.lomara.org/shoebox-pdf-chapters/

    “Stealing Harry,” which is the oldest and most famous Marauders-raise-Harry fic ever,
    https://archiveofourown.org/works/987408/chapters/1947158

    “Text Talk,” which is a no-magic texting AU, where they’re just boarding school boys. Off the wall, but it’s legit the most funny HP fic I have ever. INCREDIBLY popular for a reason,
    https://archiveofourown.org/works/1651109/chapters/3501239

    Those are all super long, so my personal favorite oneshot is “A Way to Get Back Home,” which is also a nonmagic-AU (sorry!), but it’s about them raising Harry after J&L die, and it’s so in-character and so lovely,
    https://archiveofourown.org/works/2737853

  • Paigers

    So, continuing from previous comment, there are about a million Wolfstar fanfics, but the most famous ones are:

    “The Shoebox Project,” which is a really big, cool multimedia Marauders era thing, http://shoebox.lomara.org/shoebox-pdf-chapters/

    “Stealing Harry,” which is the oldest and most famous Marauders-raise-Harry fic ever,
    https://archiveofourown.org/works/987408/chapters/1947158

    “Text Talk,” which is a no-magic texting AU, where they’re just boarding school boys. Off the wall, but it’s legit the most funny HP fic I have ever. INCREDIBLY popular for a reason,
    https://archiveofourown.org/works/1651109/chapters/3501239

    Those are all super long, so my personal favorite oneshot is “A Way to Get Back Home,” which is also a nonmagic-AU (sorry!), but it’s about them raising Harry after J&L die, and it’s so in-character and so lovely,
    https://archiveofourown.org/works/2737853

  • Gryffindork

    In regards to the hosts’ discussion about Harry knowing about a Ron and Hermione relationship before even Ron and Hermione, it’s actually implied that Harry knew as early as GoF that they may have feelings for each other. At the end of the Yule Ball chapter there is this passage:

    “‘Well, if you don’t like it, you know what the solution is, don’t you?’ yelled Hermione; her hair was coming down out of its elegant bun now, and her face was screwed up in anger.
    ‘Oh yeah?’ Ron yelled back. ‘What’s that?’
    ‘Next time there’s a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!’
    Ron mouthed soundlessly like a goldfish out of water as Hermione turned on her heel and stormed up the girls’ stair case to bed. Ron turned to look at Harry.
    ‘Well,’ he spluttered, looking thunderstruck, ‘well – that just proves – completely missed the point -‘
    Harry didn’t say anything. He liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind right now – but he somehow thought that Hermione had got the point much better than Ron had.”

    Though there are many times that the narration hints at a deeper romance between the two, I’m pretty sure this is the first time that we really hear Harry thinking about Ron and Hermione’s relationship.

  • frumpybutsupersmart

    Man, I have to say, I have been a Ron/Hermione shipper ever since I was old enough to think about romance at all. I recently read Howl’s Moving Castle (yes it’s a book and if you like the movie at all you NEED to read it) and the constant bickering between Howl and Sophie reminded me a lot of Ron and Hermione. They know the can argue a lot about little things because it’s never going to actually affect how much they love each other, and they both enjoy teasing the other.

    About what JKR may/may not have said about Draco and Hermione, I highly doubt she would have said that Draco was mean to Hermione because he liked her. It perpetuates the harmful notion that someone hurting you is the same as someone loving you, and I really don’t think that JK would have said something like that. I do know that she’s warned female fans not to romanticise Draco too much, because the ‘I can fix him’ mentality is not a healthy approach to a relationship.

    Personally, I can kind of see what people mean when they say they saw Hermione/Snape stuff in Cursed Child. I don’t believe it was intentionally put there at all, though – I think it was just a result of Snape and Hermione having all of the meaningful dialogue in those scenes, and Ron not having much at all. Mostly, Ron’s there for comic relief, just like in the movies, and the supposed connection between Snape and Hermione is just a result of Ron being sidelined as a character yet again.

    As for seeing more of Harry and Ginny, I absolutely agree that there needed to be more meaningful scenes between the two of them. I do understand why they didn’t show the moments in ‘secluded areas of the grounds’ – it’s a kid’s book, after all!

    • ASiriusPotterhead

      Yeah I agree with you on the Draco thing, as Jo has explicitly said that fans romanticize Draco as this wounded anti-hero and she’s NOT for it. She says, “…Draco was not concealing a heart of gold under all that sneering and prejudice and that no, he and Harry were not destined to end up best friends.” I would assume this would extend to Hermione too.

  • MyNameIsElvendork

    I can’t believe you didn’t mention my favorite ship: DRAPPLE! You have to read this short fanfic https://m.fanfiction.net/s/7340362/1/Drapple that came from Tom Felton’s promo pics with apples.

  • BloodCharm

    I personally really liked Harry and Cho- like Harry says “they just sort of fell apart”. One thing that is interesting though is that it feels like both of them started dating because they had unresolved feelings for each other before Cedric’s death, even though she did prefer Cedric. She was obviously attracted to him, yet Cedric meant more to her in the end, although I wish we could have seen more details of their relationship. But once Cedric died and Harry was the sole witness to it, I think Cho wanted to be with Harry in a subconscious way in order to deal with her feelings for Cedric and to try to attain closure and to even feel like she is with Cedric again to a certain extent. Both Harry and Cedric did have a lot of similar traits- both Quiditich players, both brave, handsome, both skilled in magic. I think she wanted to be with him because of Cedric and not really because of Harry and since Harry had liked Cho forever, they both started going out because it seemed that it was the most logical thing at the time. But Cho’s different approach to her grief and trauma over Cedric’s death vs Harry’s who really cannot deal with it fully makes their relationship strained. Their maturity levels and different ways of looking at things are evident due to Harry not being able to empathize with Marietta’s problems(which I personally agree with- I’d love to see more backstory on Marietta because I just can’t fathom her choices here) and him not understanding, ( not unreasonably) why Cho is jealous of his friendship with Hermione. In different circumstances, I could see them working out, but that just didn’t happen.

    • UmbridgeRage

      I had always seen it that Cho liked Harry more than Cedric (she clearly liked both of them). However, Cedric asked her to the Ball first and she was too decent to just dump Cedric because Harry finally asked her so that got their relationship rolling. Agree with the rest of your comment.

    • Harry and Cho is my favorite Harry pairing.

  • UmbridgeRage

    When it comes to the “Ship Wars” and shipping in general I tend to feel like Mel Gibson’s character in the early part of the movie “Galipoli” (really great movie about Australians in WW1). All the young men are desperate to join up and go on what they think will be a great adventure while Frank (I think that was his name, been a while) realizes that it’s not Australia’s war and they are likely to end up dying on the other side of the world for no good reason. He wants no part of it and I want no part in the ship wars. He finally joins up after meeting and becoming best friends with the other lead (Archy) who is too young to legally join so Frank helps him to fool the recruiters. So I’m Frank and Alohomora is Archy. Looks like I’m finally going to join the fray.

    I really don’t understand Harmony. Apart from 3 chapters in the entire series we are pretty much inside Harry’s head. I can’t think of a single thought Harry has that would lead people to believe Harry has or could develop romantic feels for Hermione and plenty that indicate the exact opposite. He finds her boring during GoF when he and Ron aren’t speaking and as the hosts state they are alone together for quite some time during DH and nothing happens. Hermione is pining for Ron and Harry is still pulling out the map to look for Ginny. Honestly I’m glad that J.K resisted her thoughts writing this section because how could Ron have come back and things not have been super awkward. Harry and Hermione would have been betraying both Ron and Ginny for what? A bit of comfort in a difficult time. The consequences of Harmony in this moment would have to be brushed aside in order to keep the real story (I love Potter partly because it’s so not focused on ships) going. I can’t believe that Ron could just be “cool with it” like he is with Hinny. The Trio would have been destroyed and I’ll fight anyone who thinks otherwise.

    • UmbridgeRage

      When I say I don’t understand Harry/Hermione what I mean is I really want a Harmony shipper to explain this to me. Help an old guy out.

    • ASiriusPotterhead

      I’m with you there. Even as a young reader I love the platonic nature of Harmony because I loved the idea that girls and guys could just be friends. I also related more with Ginny so my wish fulfilment was Harry getting together with Ginny LOL.

      Dramione also confuses me to no end, because yes, while Draco isn’t EVIL INCARNATE, he is NOT a good guy. I feel like the love for Draco is due to the fantabulous Tom Felton but as a character he really isn’t all that redeeming until after the war. But this is probably another episode altogether lol…..

      • UmbridgeRage

        Yep. Dramione and indeed Drarry get a big nope from me. You just have to change too much of who these characters are to get these ships even out of dry dock let alone sailing. Agreed that Tom did most of the heavily lifting to get people to ship him and anyone. It’s not just the bad boy thing since I know of no Crabbe or Goyel ships (not that I pay much attention as stated in my OP)

  • ASiriusPotterhead

    I honestly have never understood shipping and in particular, fanfic shipping.. I’m all for what Jo’s original intentions were and legitimately don’t understand why ppl are so obsessed with creating obscure ships. (Altho I totally get why ppl would want more LGBTQ+ representation.)

    Regardless of how I feel about ships, a great episode all around! Thanks ladies <3

    • AuroraSinistra

      Same here. Maybe it’s because I don’t read too much into the books I’m reading or the shows/movies I watch, but unless the relationship is really terrible (Grindelwald and Credence) I normally just follow what the creators have decided.

      • ASiriusPotterhead

        Oh I overanalyze the he** out of books and especially with Potter canon, but I respect Jo’s original story so much (sometimes too much lol) that I don’t gravitate towards creating relationships that aren’t there. I love to psycho-analyze what’s actually on the page though and think about the possibilities!

        As for Grindelwald and Credence, I actually LIKE how twisted it is. Obviously I don’t condone predatory behaviour but from a character/story perspective, it intrigues me. Colin Firth played him SO WELL, I’m sad that he isn’t going to be playing Grindelwald moving forward.

  • UmbridgeRage

    Apologies if I’m commenting on stuff that’s expanded on later as I’m listening to this in chunks while doing other stuff. On THAT scene in DH: I don’t buy it as simply 2 friends trying to cheer each other up. There are hundreds of other ways they could have done that instead of the weird dancing thing. It was totally written and shot as a will they/wont they moment. The brief pause as they look each other in the eyes as the song ends screams of film history where these two character would kiss. It is no accident. Kloves and Yeats knew exactly what they were doing or they had no right to be anywhere near a blockbuster movie.

  • AuroraSinistra

    Hello, first off, let me be the millionth person to say this was a fantastic episode!
    Anyway, you talked a bit about Ravenclaw/Slytherin, Gryffindor/Slytherin, and Ravenclaw/Gryffindor pairings. I think the compatibility, whether romantic or platonic, really comes down to the specific traits you have that are the reason you’re in your house. In a previous episode, there was a discussion on what makes someone a Ravenclaw, Slytherin, Hufflepuff, or Gryffindor. A Ravenclaw/Gryffindor pairing could be disastrous or amazing depending on if you are pairing a Luna-esque person with Hermione-esque person, versus pairing a more stereotypical Ravenclaw with Hermione. My best friend fall more into the latter, and I think the differences and similarities balance well. I’d dare to say that I keep her grounded while she gets me to take risks that I normally wouldn’t.

    • MarsIsBrightTonight

      I wholly agree with you. I think that as a fandom, we need to stop thinking that there are essentially only 4 types of people in the world. Within every house, personalities run the gamut of how they display those traits of bravery, cunning, loyalty, and cleverness. You don’t need to be a Luna to be a Ravenclaw, or a Hermione to be a Gryffindor.

  • ANOTHER Weasley

    I can not see the Dean & Seamus ship. Not at all. I did see Grindelwald as coming on to Credence in a creepy manipulative kind of way, not because of any actually love. That man is just a predator. I agree with what one of you said about him acting like he is in love with anyone to get them to give him what he wants from them. Basically, I think all of the canon ships are right, but I wouldn’t have been sad if there was a Luna/Neville ship.

    I am not done listening to this yet, but how creepy would an Umbridge /McNair ship be? AHHHHHH! Run away!

  • YoureJustAsSaneAsIAm

    This was such a great episode! I honestly don’t know where to begin because I have so many comments to add to the conversation. I’ll try and be as concise as possible.

    I enjoy reading fanfiction, but only well-written fanfiction. I base that statement on two reasons: 1) I’m a huge grammar nerd. If there’s multiple misspellings I will move onto another story. I just can’t get past that type of thing. And 2) The characters need to be represented as they are in the books in terms of how they act and think. If they’re too out of character for me, again I just exit out of the story.

    Moving onto Harry x Ginny, I personally love their relationship in the books as opposed to the movies, especially HBP. If Harry didn’t know how to feed himself or tie his shoes, the wizarding world would be in BIG trouble. And as much as I like their pairing, I wouldn’t have minded Harry x Luna. I know you guys mentioned they don’t seem compatible, but for me, I don’t think it would’ve been all that bad. I see Ginny as fire and Luna as ice, both having ways of calming Harry down, albeit different ones. Ginny and Harry have an understanding of Voldemort possessing them, and Luna and Harry have an understanding of losing someone you love at a young age and dealing with death. Many fanfictions I have read with Harry x Luna pairings have Luna saying odd things, but Harry seeing that trait as a lovable quirk. He doesn’t always understand them, but is still sweet about it, and I don’t think that line of thinking for Harry is too far off. Their friendship has to be one of my favorites in the series, but again I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to see them as a couple.

    As for Ron & Hermione, I always knew they would get together in the end. I got a hint of it when reading POA for the first time, but when I got to the whole Yule Ball scene with Ron accusing Hermione of “fraternizing with the enemy” by going out with Krum, that was when I knew for sure. Harry and Hermione’s relationship is so sweet and genuine; I really do enjoy all those little moments, especially the dance scene in DH Part 1.

    I find it interesting that there are hardly any Ron x Harry fanfiction, which I guess is a good thing. I personally cannot see them together, and I think that’s because I see a lot of parallels between theirs and James and Sirius’ friendship (another pairing we don’t see a lot of). I see Ron as James and Harry as Sirius. Ron befriends Harry on the train and invites him to his home to spend summers and holiday breaks, similar in terms of what James does with Sirius. I can totally see James’ mom acting like Molly Weasley, doting on Sirius and making sure he has enough to eat and is provided for. I think back to when Ron destroys the locket and breaks down and hugs Harry, and I am so sure there were emotional moments similar to this with James and Sirius. It’s that type of familial bond where you don’t see anything romantic happening between those two groups of boys.

    I’m not opposed to the Remus x Sirius ship, though I don’t really see any basis for it in my opinion. Also, I love the idea of Dean and Seamus as a couple; that ship isn’t too far of a stretch for me to imagine. And as for Draco x Hermione, Draco x Harry, Hermione x Snape…no. Just, no.

    I guess I wasn’t as concise as I thought I was going to be. Whoops! I’d love to hear any feedback if you have it.

  • goblet-of-fiyah

    I have to be honest, I was a little disappointed with this episode. It seemed to be mostly the hosts choosing a list of ships and giving their personal opinions on each, which… they all come from a relatively similar background of liking the canon ships and not straying into any really non-traditional territory.

    As someone who grew up spending a lot of the time in LJ slash fandom, it was pretty funny to hear things the discussion of Wood/Flint! I think a lot of the appeal of that one is a little more R-rated than Alohomora typically is. I’m not sure how many people are shipping that as a happily-ever-after pairing 😉 Honestly, I’m surprised you went with that over Oliver/Percy, which is maybe a little more up the hosts’ alley!

    I would really love to see an episode that focuses more on shipping culture or the history of shipping in this fandom. An episode that tries to answer some broader questions, you know?

    Actually, fandom history in general would be a cool episode… Maybe I’ll submit that as a topic suggestion.

    • Lisa

      I wasn’t disappointed but I agree with your assessment that it was all very mainstream, so to say. They did bring up some more unusual ships like Snape/Hermione but as far as I remember none of the darker ships were brought up or discussed (Lucius/Narcissa, Lucius/Voldemort, Bella/Voldemort, Harry/Voldy, Ginny/Tom Riddle, etc).

      I mean, obviously there are so many ships out there that there’s no way all of them could get audio time but still, a bit more diversity would have been appreciated. There’s already so much discussion of the trio ships and Sirius/Remus in other contexts. And I agree that discussing the phenomenon of shipping in general in the HP fandom would have been quite interesting.

    • thenewtscamanders

      I agree with you, they should have had at least one host who shipped some of the non-canon pairings. That part just felt like they were hating on all those ships.

  • Swedish Short Snout

    Hi friends!

    First off, I’m here to fight you on Ron and Hermione since this relationship has always bothered me. I have no doubt in my mind that there would be some feelings and tension between them – school aged kids have those – but I don’t like that they would settle for each other. They both grow so much in the books, and they deserve to start a relationship off fresh.

    It seems to me that instead, they build a relationship on a lot of toxic stuff (like jealousy, a huge lack of communication and her doing all his damn school work.) All these issues begun long before they got together, but that usually means you bring that with you in to the relationship.
    Ron leaving in Deathly Hallows is the nail in the coffin for me. If he truly had a healthy love (not just jealousy) for Hermione, he would have been all Samwise Gamgee and refused to leave.

    For a relationship that began as early as theirs this is not weird, but I think especially Ron (and as much as we love him he is a little problematic) has a lot of learning to do about women and god knows I don’t want Hermione spending her valuable time teaching/raising him and falling in to the girlfriend-mom trap.

    Personally, I think it would have been sweet to see Hermione reunited with Krum later on. Maybe she’s doing serious girl power stuff at the ministry when he shows up as the Bulgarian Minister of Magical Sports. He seemed so genuinely in love with her, chose her over everyone else (even though book-Hermione didn’t have Emma-Watson-looks) and her only complaint about him ever was that he wasn’t very verbal/ good at English which seems to have changes since they are still writing letters to each other much later. I like to think he learnt English for her. *heart-eyes-emoji*

    (First time commenting here and just thought I would let you know how much I love what you do. I am very alone in my nerdiness among my friends, so you are my substitute nerdfreinds. Thank you for that.)

    • MarsIsBrightTonight

      While I am so on board with this idea of Hermione taking time to explore herself and her career, and then bumping into an equally ambitious Krum years later, the quote from Philosopher’s Stone comes to mind:
      “There are some things you can’t share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.”
      And I think it can be modified to
      “There are some things you can’t share without ending up loving each other, and helping Harry Potter take down Lord Voldemort is one of them”
      Because Ron and Hermione are forever united by that mission and there is nobody in the world that can relate to how that’s shaped their lives.

      • Swedish Short Snout

        Sure! And while I would never argue against there being an unbreakable connection and love between them, I’m never going to see any healthy relationship coming from it.

        Ron has a always had really jealous and possessive attitude towards Hermione. He keeps making fun of her and putting her and her interests down, but still (before ever hinting at or admitting any love for her) he is pissed about Krum. (He never even considers asking her to the ball, if I remember correctly, as a last resort, he asked her to go with either of them.)

        All of this is obviously rooted in some deep insecurities of his, but as a rule men that turn their insecurities to possessive love ain’t great.

        The only thing that eventually makes him make a first move is Krum showing up to the wedding and Hermione getting a little flustered.

        And also, his solutions to his inability to communicate are always crap. In HBP he uses and discards poor Lavender, and in DH he chooses to ignore the mission (and Hermiones feelings and safety) and instead of communicating just leaves.

        Most of these actions can to some degree be blamed at young age or inexperience, but they are a crap foundation for a relationship.

        As I said, I’m sure there is love there, just not a happy marriage.

        • RickJM

          Almost nothing in this comment is remotely accurate.

  • Swedish Short Snout

    My fave ship ever is the Wolfstar/Remus Sirius ship (even though it’s real sad in my head canon.)

    Remus is probably head over heals(<3) for Sirius in school and why wouldn’t he: Sirius is a hot, troubled guy and we have all had crushes on those I think. He also learns super-duper hard magic specifically to be able to spend time with Lupin wich probably got his hopes up even more.

    This would also explain a lot of things, like why he never really told Sirius and James off, or why he might have really tried to forgive Sirius for the whole shrieking shack incident.

    I think Sirius would have known, and found the love flattering and a little exiting but I don't see him loving him back and I think this might have led to Remus leaving them after school. It might just have been to hard for him to stick around. (This explains him not being in James and Lily's wedding pic, not being considered for secret keeper and so on)

    I also think this might have been why he was able to believe Sirius as the one who betrayed James and Lily. He might actually have found it a little comforting, and made getting over him easier.

    Since this is my head canon I find reading about them in the third-seventh book heartbreaking. Lupin maybe getting his hopes back up, Sirius breaking his heart all over, the death of his love, and trying to come to terms with his feelings for Tonks later on. (I figure Remus would be a bisexual character as I truly think he loves Tonks)

    I also read the lines when Lupin hears about Dumbledore’s death (and falls apart) as confirmation that he and Dumbledore had actually confided in each other and found comfort in their similar experiences. I also think this might have been why Dumbledore was so keen to help him find a job.

  • YoureJustAsSaneAsIAm

    This was such a great episode! I honestly don’t know where to begin 
because I have so many comments to add to the conversation. I’ll try and be as concise as possible.

    I enjoy reading fanfiction, but only well-written fanfiction. I base that
statement on two reasons: 1) I’m a huge grammar nerd. If there’s 
multiple misspellings I will move onto another story. I just can’t get 
past that type of thing. And 2) The characters need to be represented as
they are in the books in terms of how they act and think. If they’re 
too out of character for me, again I just exit out of the story.

    Moving onto Harry x Ginny, I personally love their relationship in the books as opposed to the movies, especially HBP. If Harry didn’t know how to feed himself or tie his shoes, the wizarding world would be in BIG trouble. And as much as I like their pairing, I wouldn’t have minded 
Harry x Luna. I know you guys mentioned they don’t seem compatible, but for me, I don’t think it would’ve been all that bad. I see Ginny as fire
and Luna as ice, both having ways of calming Harry down, albeit 
different ones. Ginny and Harry have an understanding of Voldemort 
possessing them, and Luna and Harry have an understanding of losing 
someone you love at a young age and dealing with death. Many fanfictions I have read with Harry x Luna pairings have Luna saying odd things, but Harry seeing that trait as a lovable quirk. He doesn’t always 
understand them, but is still sweet about it, and I don’t think that 
line of thinking for Harry is too far off. Their friendship has to be 
one of my favorites in the series, but again I don’t think it’s too much
of a stretch to see them as a couple.

    As for Ron & Hermione, I always knew they would get together in the 
end. I got a hint of it when reading POA for the first time, but when I 
got to the whole Yule Ball scene with Ron accusing Hermione of 
”fraternizing with the enemy” by going out with Krum, that was when I 
knew for sure. Harry and Hermione’s relationship is so sweet and 
genuine; I really do enjoy all those little moments, especially the 
dance scene in DH Part 1.

    I find it interesting that there are hardly any Ron x Harry fanfiction, 
which I guess is a good thing. I personally cannot see them together, 
and I think that’s because I see a lot of parallels between theirs and 
James and Sirius’ friendship (another pairing we don’t see a lot of). I 
see Ron as James and Harry as Sirius. Ron befriends Harry on the train 
and invites him to his home to spend summers and holiday breaks, similar in terms of what James does with Sirius. I can totally see James’ mom acting like Molly Weasley, doting on Sirius and making sure he has 
enough to eat and is provided for. I think back to when Ron destroys the
locket and breaks down and hugs Harry, and I am so sure there were 
emotional moments similar to this with James and Sirius. It’s that type 
of familial bond where you don’t see anything romantic happening between those two groups of boys.

    I’m not opposed to the Remus x Sirius ship, though I don’t really see any basis for it in my opinion. Also, I love the idea of Dean and Seamus as a couple; that ship isn’t too far of a stretch for me to imagine. And as 
for Draco x Hermione, Draco x Harry, Hermione x Snape…no. Just, no.

    I guess I wasn’t as concise as I thought I was going to be. Whoops! I’d love to hear any feedback if you have it.

  • YoureJustAsSaneAsIAm

    This was such a great episode! I honestly don’t know where to begin. I’ll try to be as concise as possible.

    I enjoy reading fan-fiction, but only well-written fan-fiction. I base that on two things: grammar/spelling and how the characters are portrayed. If there’s too many grammatical errors or the characters don’t act/think like they do in the books, I just move on to the next story.

    With Harry & Ginny, I personally love their relationship in books compared to what it is in HBP. If Harry didn’t know how to feed himself or tie his shoes by himself, the wizarding world would be in BIG trouble. As much as I like their pairing, I wouldn’t have minded Harry & Luna getting together. I know you guys mentioned that they don’t seem compatible, but for me, I think it would have been that bad. I see Ginny as fire and Luna as ice, both having their own ways of calming Harry down and seeing reason. Ginny and Harry have an understanding of what it was like to be possessed by Voldemort, and Luna and Harry have an understanding of losing a loved at such a young age. The Harry x Luna fan-fics I have read have Luna still saying odd things, but Harry seeing them as a lovable quirk. He doesn’t always understand them, but it still sweet about it, and I personally don’t think that line of thinking for Harry is too far off. Their friendship has to be one of my favorites in the series, but again I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to see them as a couple.

    As for Ron & Hermione, I always knew they would get together in the end. I got hints of it when reading POA for the first time, but when I got to the whole Yule Ball scene with Ron accusing Hermione of “fraternizing with enemy” by going out with Krum, that was when I knew for sure. Harry and Hermione’s relationship is so sweet and genuine; I really do love all their little moments together, especially the dance scene in DH Part 1.

    I find it interesting that there are hardly any Ron x Harry fanfiction, 
which I guess is a good thing. I personally cannot see them together, 
and I think that’s because I see a lot of parallels between theirs and 
James and Sirius’ friendship (another pairing we don’t see a lot of). I 
see Ron as James and Harry as Sirius. Ron befriends Harry on the train 
and invites him to his home to spend summers and holiday breaks, similar in terms of what James does with Sirius. I can totally see James’ mom acting like Molly Weasley, doting on Sirius and making sure he has 
enough to eat and is provided for. I think back to when Ron destroys the
locket and breaks down and hugs Harry, and I am so sure there were 
emotional moments similar to this with James and Sirius. It’s that type 
of familial bond where you don’t see anything romantic happening between those two groups of boys.

    I’m not opposed to the Remus x Sirius ship, though I don’t really see any basis for it in my opinion. Also, I love the idea of Dean and Seamus as a couple; that ship isn’t too far of a stretch for me to imagine. And as 
for Draco x Hermione, Draco x Harry, Hermione x Snape…no. Just, no.

    I guess I wasn’t as concise as I thought I was going to be. Whoops! I’d love to hear any feedback if any of you have it.

  • MarsIsBrightTonight

    I am here to defend the Dramione ship. Haters, I completely understand why this fanfic ship causes you so much heartburn. Allow me to delve into reasons I don’t think it’s completely unimaginable.

    Let’s talk about Draco. From the first time we meet Draco, we know that he is judgmental and prejudiced. We see those unsavory traits become more vivid through Order. However, let’s consider Draco’s experience up until that point – he grew up in a household, and around people that placed high importance on blood status. I’m speculating, but I surmise that he seldom ever interacted with people who challenged that notion as a child. Drawing a parallel to children who grow up in ‘classist’ families and hear their parents/parents’ friends blaming poor people for their poverty – until somebody challenges that idea, these children will keep believing that.

    Again, it is a hypothesis, but I believe that the person who challenged Draco’s point of view is Hermione. Despite not coming from a ‘noble’ pureblood family, she had magical talent superior to everyone in their year. This was a contradiction to his core belief that pureblood magic = best magic. Though it is a slow development – 7 years slow! – Hermione could have harbored a very special place in his heart as the spark that started his internal chasm. It isn’t until year 6 that Draco seems to really start thinking for himself and questioning the values that he was brought up with. We see none of Bellatrix’s zest for service to Voldemort in Draco. Even though he is successful in his mission in Half-Blood Prince, he isn’t bought in to what he was fighting for. The result of this pivot is Draco’s mercy action of failing to confirm Harry’s identity at Malfoy Manor.

    How could Hermione possibly fall for a person who was once a Death Eater and aided in “blood purification”? For the exact same reasons stated above. I think that Hermione would value the tremendous character growth and ability to ultimately arrive at the right choice.

    …or I may have read too many Dramione fanfics.

    • ASiriusPotterhead

      Man I have so many opinions on this but I’ll try and be concise lol. I honestly think so many fans have come to romanticize Draco as a character because of the way Tom Felton portrays him. Yes, he’s a complex character and isn’t just outright evil, and has many reasons for the way he is.. but he is still a bully. While he grows out of certain prejudiced traits, he isn’t exactly an advocate for muggle-borns or the underprivileged, and let’s NOT forget how he repeatedly tries to kill the trio even after Harry saves him multiple times in the last book. He has minimal redeeming moments throughout the series, but even Jo has said that he’s not a good person. He’s not an evil person, but he’s not good either..

      I have many issues with people putting Hermione, who is VERY morally pretentious with a questionable character like Draco. My experience with the Dramione fandom has been that people try and make him into some sort of wounded hero.. and he is not that. (Although I should say that I don’t think that’s what you’re saying.. but it’s just how I see Dramione in general.)

      • goblet-of-fiyah

        I’ve never been a fan of Draco or any Draco ships, but I feel like some of the appeal comes from people who wanted him to develop more and come over to the “good side.” Remember, a lot of people started shipping it way before the final books came out, when it was plausible that he might abandon his prejudices.

        Of course, there are also those for whom his dark side is a plus, but that’s not everyone.

        • ASiriusPotterhead

          Ah totally fair, I can see where that would come into play. I honestly didn’t discover this whole shipping situation until relatively recently so I didn’t even think about the fact that people were writing these fanfics and whatnot prior to the end of the series.

          But I honestly think Tom Felton is to blame for being so good looking and a fantastic actor (and human). Just on paper, Draco was AWFUL and pretty 2D until the 6th book came along. So curse Tom Felton for being so fabulous! Haha <3

        • Swedish Short Snout

          I also think that some of the Hermione/Draco-ship has its roots in what we know about Snape and Lily.

          If we make Draco the Snape of Harrys generation (Slytherin, not a fan of muggles, enemy of our protagonist) and we put Hermione in the place of Lily (Our main girl, Gryffindor, strong morals) then we can apply what we know about Snapes feelings for her on to Draco. That love/obsession and the secret admiration of her goodness.

          • MarsIsBrightTonight

            I’ve never thought of it through that lens, but really like that parallel!

      • MarsIsBrightTonight

        In the books we witness that Hermione’s trigger point for acting on her feelings for Ron is when he voices that he cares about the house elves. She values and finds attractive his ability to grow and evolve. I don’t think it’s so crazy that she could find the same trait attractive in Draco if he showed a more enlightened view on muggle-borns.

        • ASiriusPotterhead

          I suppose it’s not impossible… But we still see no proof of Malfoy actually becoming an advocate or champion of muggleborns. It’s like the difference of someone not being racist vs actively advocating for equal rights/privileges. I’m not one to put Hermione on a pedastool so I highly doubt that just because Malfoy is less prejudiced she isn’t going to all of a sudden fall in love with him. She’s also not a super forgiving person in general. She might forgive him eventually and grow to respect him but I personally don’t see her doing a 180 (à la Harry in the epilogue) and having a romantic or even a platonic relationship with him.

          I guess fanfic is all about the unknown though and possibilities.. But I’ve just never been one for fanfic in the first place and only like to go off of what I’ve read in canonical lit or what Jo has explicitly said to be true.

          All in good fun in the end! We can agree to disagree lol. 🙂

        • Madi Chick

          I agree with your point about how Hermione’s attraction to Ron were made apparent once she realized what a caring guy he is, but I think it’s a stretch to suggest that has or even has the potential to express that same kind of mindfulness, especially towards muggle-borns. Draco grew up in a dark and unwelcoming family and we’ve seen that Draco doesn’t have much of a backbone in terms of standing up to his father. So in your statement “if he showed a more enlightened view of muggle-borns,” that is a pretty massive if. And with that, it’s pretty impossible to imagine our Hermione being attracted to him. Would you date someone who talked down about you? Probably not.

          An interesting possibility to explore nonetheless. 🙂

  • YoureJustAsSaneAsIAm

    This was such a great episode! I honestly don’t know where to begin 
because I have so many comments to add to the conversation. I’ll try and be as concise as possible.

    I enjoy reading fanfiction, but only well-written fanfiction. I base that
statement on two reasons: 1) I’m a huge grammar nerd. If there’s 
multiple misspellings I will move onto another story. I just can’t get 
past that type of thing. And 2) The characters need to be represented as
they are in the books in terms of how they act and think. If they’re 
too out of character for me, again I just exit out of the story.

    Moving onto Harry x Ginny, I personally love their relationship in the books as opposed to the movies, especially HBP. If Harry didn’t know how to feed himself or tie his shoes, the wizarding world would be in BIG trouble. And as much as I like their pairing, I wouldn’t have minded 
Harry x Luna. I know you guys mentioned they don’t seem compatible, but for me, I don’t think it would’ve been all that bad. I see Ginny as fire
and Luna as ice, both having ways of calming Harry down, albeit 
different ones. Ginny and Harry have an understanding of Voldemort 
possessing them, and Luna and Harry have an understanding of losing 
someone you love at a young age and dealing with death. Many fanfictions I have read with Harry x Luna pairings have Luna saying odd things, but Harry seeing that trait as a lovable quirk. He doesn’t always 
understand them, but is still sweet about it, and I don’t think that 
line of thinking for Harry is too far off. Their friendship has to be 
one of my favorites in the series, but again I don’t think it’s too much
of a stretch to see them as a couple.

  • Lisa

    Re Neville/Luna: someone once made the point that because of his parents, Neville would be too creeped out by Luna’s weirdness to be romantically involved with her. I think that’s an interesting way of looking at it. Luna isn’t insane in the way Neville’s parents are, not even close. However, she’s probably not entirely sane either and I think it’s very possible that Neville might have a problem with that given his experience with the mentally ill. Other than that I can definitely see the appeal of this ship because they’re both outsiders but it’s also like a default ship in a way because, well, they’re both outsiders.

    • Madi Chick

      Just a little confused about why Neville would be “too creeped out by Luna’s weirdness” and what his parents have to do with it? Although we don’t know too much about his parents, we’re painted the picture of them being kind-hearted, nice people, people who would probably be very accepting and welcoming, no? I also think that the fact they are both “outsiders” disputes your comment about Neville having a problem with Luna being a little quirky. I think they’re a perfect fit for each other, given they post experienced the loss of parents, they’re both a little strange in a cute way, and they both really came into their own by the end of the series (e.g. Luna tipping Harry off about Ravenclaws diadem, Neville killing Nagini).

      Just genuinely curious on your take of this 🙂

      • Lisa

        I’m sure his parents are kind-hearted and welcoming– assuming they understand what’s going on around them which is doubtful considering the interactions Neville has with his mother. My point was that Neville’s experience with mental illness might make him find Luna’s flights of fancy a bit off putting. A person who genuinely believes the Minister is a vampire trying to take over the world with gum disease is not a poster child for mental sanity. I think Neville would want someone more down to earth and well, normal. Of course this is all just speculation as I don’t think we see enough Neville-Luna interactions to know what he thinks of her (and she of him). Luna might also be a bit more into Ron, the way she’s always laughing at his jokes when even he doesn’t think they’re that funny.

        • ANOTHER Weasley

          I think Neville is the last person to find someone with mental illness off-putting. I think he would be the first to lean in to their experience with empathy and understanding. He is someone who listens first and then thinks before he speaks. He’s never shooting off his mouth. He keeps confidences, and acts on things when he feels that they are important and necessary.

      • ANOTHER Weasley

        They are both loyal and wonderfully kind people. They are tender hearted, and observant. I think they would have been a great match. I think they are both servant leaders too, they don’t think that helping someone else is beneath them, or that someone else should do it. They lead by example. Neville seems to be the leader of the kids at Hogwarts in DH, and I’m certain that their welfare was a huge concern for him. I can see him trying to help them all get the things they need while being in the ROR. Luna is always there for her friends, gently nudging them in the right direction and never leaving their side. They are two of the best of the DA. I love them. Jo wrote them right into my heart.

  • ANOTHER Weasley

    I’m listening to you talk about Luna and Hermione not being that friendly, but don’t you think that maybe after Hermione sees how many things she thought didn’t exist actually do, she might grow to accept Luna a bit more? Hermione is brilliant, but she’s not ALWAYS right. Things happen and folk lore is real, invisible creatures do exist…Hermione does have moments of growth and if she can believe in the welfare of elves, she can come around on other things. Luna knew about Thestrils before Hermione, and she was right about them. She was a huge help during the battle at the Ministry, and the Battle of Hogwarts when she distracts everyone, and for the intelligence she gives Harry about the diadem. She is unwavering and has Harry’s ear. She was there for him when he was desperate for an understanding friend and he was alone. I think Luna would probably get some respect sooner or later at least for being a loyal and helpful friend to Harry, even from Hermione. I can see them being friends in their later years.

    • frumpybutsupersmart

      I object to the idea that Hermione and Luna aren’t friends already. Sure, they have extremely different perspectives, and they get annoyed with each other sometimes, but doesn’t mean they don’t also care about each other. ‘There are some things you can’t share without ending up friends,’ and being hunted by Death Eaters in the Department of Mysteries must be one of them, right?

      • MarsIsBrightTonight

        I agree with you. Luna has hand-painted pictures of Harry, Ron, AND Hermione in her room. I doubt she’d go through the hassle of including Hermione just to be polite in case she ever visited. The true beauty of their friendship is that they can respectfully disagree and not be completely catty toward each other, the way that many female friendships are portrayed in media.

      • ANOTHER Weasley

        Exactly! Thank you.

      • RickJM

        But they’re not friends. Not really. They’re friendly. That’s it.

    • RickJM

      In DH, Hermione still refuses to believe the hallows are real, even with all she’s experienced up to that point.

  • Rosmerta’s Turquoise Shoes

    This is my least favourite subject, I literally have zero interest in off canon ships but the hosts made this really entertaining!
    I did just want to talk about Dumbledore & Grindelwald and agree that G was using D’s infatuation as a way to get Albus onto his way of thinking ie that magical superiority is for the “Greater Good”
    Similarly, Graves/Grindelwald is grooming Credence in a predetory way that has nothing to do with love.

    • I’m like you. Off canon and head canon bug me, but this episode was entertaining. I didn’t think I would make it to the end before beginning but before I knew it the episode was over.

      I think there was a much clearer gay relationship between Dumbledore and Doge. It would have been interesting to hear that one discussed.

      • Rosmerta’s Turquoise Shoes

        Interesting thoughts, although I would suggest that Doge was (is?) completely infatuated with Dumbledore, akin to hero worship. Dumbledore wouldn’t have want to be with anyone less than an equal intellectually.

  • DoraNympha

    I listened to this episode days ago but have not been able to comment due to work. BUT PEOPLE oh man what a topic. I don’t even know where to begin. I do have to be biased here and say I’m shocked you brought up that awful flintwood pairing but not Wood and Percy? I mean, since the episode, have you SEEN Sean Biggerstaff’s and Chris Ranki’s Twitter conversations today? I mean… https://twitter.com/Seanchuckle/status/931506698405203968

    P.S: I don’t agree btw – they are both super focused and Wood’s not a jock type like Cormac is. Yeah, Cormac’s a jock. Wow. However, Wood’s just kind of obsessed about his thing, kinda like Ollivander about wands. You mention anything to him and he connects it to his thing. I don’t see him slapping his roomies with towels to be honest but I mean it’s all in the interpretation.

  • DoraNympha

    Can we talk about George and Angelina? It’s weird unless it’s like 10 years after the battle. And we’re still not sure how long or how serious Fred and Angelina were at all. Canonically, it did not last for more than a few months but maybe it was just the one date or something? And who did George go to the ball with if anyone? How serious was Lee about Angelina – was it just some friendly banter or self-depricating humour about something more serious in secret? And are the fanfics true about Katie and Alicia wait don’t debunk that last one, let me have good things regardless of the canon’s absolute lack of queer representation. Also humblebrag but there is a post going around on tumblr about Wood and Percy being in the same year and I added the popular vine meme line to it a few months ago “And they were roommates” and I’m glad to say it has been reblogged enough times to let me know of many more people being exposed to the glorious idea of percywood. Thank you, my work is done here.

    • frumpybutsupersmart

      Yeah it always threw me that George ended up with his dead twin’s ex. Although I suppose they could have bonded over their grief? Like you said, it could have been just the one date anyway.

      Katie and Alicia are <3 No one burst this bubble!

      • The twins were barely different people. They probably shared the same interest in girls and seeing as they were so similar, dating one twin couldn’t have been very different from dating the other.

        • frumpybutsupersmart

          I get your point, but I don’t think that identical twins would be too happy about being treated interchangeably. I don’t think Angelina just transferred her feelings for Fred onto George; I think they genuinely bonded over their loss and they grew to love each other independent of Fred. That being said, it can’t have been easy for them. Fred’s absence would be very present.

    • Rosmerta’s Turquoise Shoes

      Do you think WB & Jo are revisiting the Fred – Angelina – George relationship with Newt – Leta – Theseus? From the press release, the latter 2 are engaged!

    • I love George dearly and took a lot of issue with the George/Angelina pairing when I first learned of it, and it took a solid five years for me to embrace it. I am a canon purist, and it was the only canon (I consider Jo’s Weasley family tree canon) ship I just couldn’t get behind – although frankly, that was probably more because I was jealous than anything. 😛

      All that said, I’ve reflected on George and Angelina’s relationship a lot (to the point of reading Reddit threads about real people who ended up marrying the twin/sibling of an ex/dead ex >.<), and I really see no reason why they couldn't have had a perfectly happy, healthy marriage. For one, like DoraNympha points out, we have no gauge of how serious Fred and Angelina were. Just because he took her to the ball doesn't mean they were soulmates. By Deathly Hallows, Fred and George are both sneaking away from the wedding with Fleur's cousins, which suggests that Fred and Angelina weren't together at this point. It's easy to assume that George went to the ball with Katie or Alicia, but he literally could have gone with anybody. Could've been another Gryffindor sixth year, could've been a seventh year or a fifth year, could've been a girl from another house, could've been a Durmstrang girl or a Beauxbatons girl, he could've gone by himself. As for Lee, I could see it going either way: 1) his flirtation with Angelina was just that, or 2) he really did pine for her and tried to cover his true feelings with light humor.

      But anyway, back to George and Angelina. I don't picture them having been anything more than friends/teammates while in school, but I don't think it's that absurd to think they would've reconnected after the war (and not necessarily just over their shared grief). They're both Quidditch enthusiasts, Angelina strikes me as the type who enjoys a good laugh and would be laid back enough to go with the flow of George's pranks and jokes, and she also seems like a very independent person who would follow her instincts if she felt like she a George were a good fit, regardless of what anyone else might have to say about it. You can't help who you fall in love with, and if George and Angelina found the love, support, and companionship they needed in one another, I doubt either of them would have been like, "yeah, I really like what we have going on here and I think we'd make good life partners, but it's kind of weird that I went to that one dance with your dead brother like ten years ago, so probably we should just break up so people won't talk."

      tl;dr – George/Angelina 4 lyfe.

  • DoraNympha

    About Dumbledore and Grindelwald:

    I think it’s probable that D never mentioned or indicated his feelings and even if G noticed anyway, he did not care a fig.

    I do agree G is not above manipulating people sexually, unlike Voldemort, who wouldn’t know where to begin with something he just does not understand in a way we cannot imagine a colour we have not seen.

    I do have high hopes of the thing that may have been between them explained more in FB – whether it was completely unrquited or whether it was manipultion etc – but to be honest, I think the following will happen in true insensitive straight writer fashion:

    We eventually get to see that D struggled with or hid his feelings for G all summer until their disagreement gets out of hand on the day Ariana dies. They are having a big fight where D’s like “we could be great together – like together together – if you’d just give up this whole mass murder part of The Plan” and G is like “nah, wanna do the mass murder” and the fight escalates and D is pubished by the worst thing that ever happens in his life like five minutes after he reveals his gay feels for his best friend/research partner/crush. I mean, he is already THE ONLY canonically (well, extra-canonically) confirmed queer character out of hundreds of named characters across a wide saga, it’s only fitting his sister’s death and his greatest regret and damaging moment comes 0.2 seconds after he says something gay. I’ve literally been so frustrated about this pattern in queer representation that I wrote my degree thesis out of this and I’m bitter and pessimistic. I mean look at the Grindelwald/Creedence thing already and the queerbaiting CC has done.

    P.S.: that reminds me: I hate Harry/Hermione because it is so overplayes, it is THE most obvious and predictable idiocy in fiction, no need for even a little idea of them as a ship thank you – if it is so important to show male friendships that can be intimate but remain only friendships, the same is true for male/female friendships too, which is Harry and Hermione’s example and it is great.

    • Lisa

      I’m no Harmonian but to call it idiocy is a bit much, I think. People like what they like and I’m sure you wouldn’t be ok with someone referring to Scorbus that way.

      Agree about Grindelwald using his sexuality (though it’s just speculation at this point as we know next to nothing about their friendship). But disagree that Voldemort didn’t/wouldn’t know how to do it. He did do it with Hepzibah Smith and I’m sure he understood that there can be power in sex or in having someone be sexually attracted to you. It goes hand in hand with knowing how to flatter people and manipulate them, just taking it one step further.

      I’m curious how the new Fantastic Beasts movie will portray gay couples. This is literally the only thing I find remotely interesting about a, in my opinion, rather pointless franchise.

      • DoraNympha

        I wouldn’t call FB pointless really – I am disappointed somewhat that it is less about the beasts and Newt and more and more about Grindelwald. Why not tell us that from the beginning? Now it’s just as if we’ve been misled or something.

        I do call it idiocy, not the shippers but the concept itself, because not only can a non-gay male and a female character exist in the same scene or story without it being thrown up in the air that they will be love interests but also in real life you can barely have a proper conversation with different-sex colleagues or other studetns or really anyone without someone calling it an office romance or some bs like that. So yup, very much passionately against the most important male and female characters in a story other than a romance story being paired off together. And if it is not at all supported in the text and nowhere near as much as, say, Scorbus accidentally-or-not are in the stage directions? Downright idiotic indeed. :/

        • Lisa

          Well in that case JKR was an idiot too since she admitted there was potential between Harry and Hermione. 😀 People in real life jumping to conclusions and fans wanting to see a relationship develop romantically between two characters who share meaningful moments and adventures together are two different things. Whether we like it or not, many romantic relationships do develop from friendships and to some people this idea is more appealing than “love at first sight” or other tropes like that. Hermione could have still have had male friends she was only friends with, like Ron. In fanon, there’s no reason for Ron to be romantically into Hermione, he could have been interested in other girls and then Harmony could have happened without causing any problems within the trio.

          • DoraNympha

            Like I said, let me clarify it once again that it is not the shippers but the concept itself of pairing off the main male lead and the main female lead that is rubbish. The practice itself it overplayed, unoriginal, uncalled for, and I do find that it reduces the most complex, interesting, independent female characters to the simple role of The Girl. The Love Interest. The Conquest. Of course it would cross the mind of the author, and she decided against it. Thankfully! 😀

            Ron and Hermione are the ship that develops out of a bickering friendship. I’m not sure I like that, either – don’t get me wrong, I love being challenged by my partner, disagreeing on something and discussing it them, etc, but I’ve never ever ever understood why it is in any way appearling to people to ship two characters who appear to be annoyed by each other or argue all the time. I am not intersted in the wear-her-down or wear-him-down trope at all, let alone the awful tropes stuff like Dramione represent. Friendly banter and bickering is alright, intelligent discussion about differing opinions is excellent, but shipping bulies with their victims is not.

            On Hinny: can I just say….. I love that Harry breaks up with Ginny before going away to find the Horcruxes precisely because he knows she might be used against him and he wouldn’t think twice about saving her the second she is in danger. I love that the final thing is not saving his girl and then getting the girl. The fact that they tried to spoil this with the romantic intention behind the otherwise adorable dance scene in the DH movie is again such rubbish from Yates and co.

            The heteronormativity: I was in kind of a safe bubble only at university about this. Everywhere else, I’m afraid it is a shockingly narrow-minded reality – I’ve experienced this my whole life and I hate it so much, don’t need any of it in a story that most of us read for escapism. I especially take this to heart as a bisexual woman – I don’t see why I can’t behave the same way around women and men when I’m being friendly and not at all flirty. In fact, I’m never flirty with men and it’s still like you can’t have a proper intersting conversation with them without some awkward moment when they borderline hit on you or someone has a misogynistic/heteronormative comment MEANWHILE I do sometimes jokingly flirt with women and it just goes over their heads completely. That’s what most spaces are like in my experience, if you haven’t been met with this, you’re lucky and let’s swap lives. :S

          • Lisa

            “On Hinny: can I just say….. I love that Harry breaks up with Ginny before going away to find the Horcruxes precisely because he knows she might be used against him and he wouldn’t think twice about saving her the second she is in danger. I love that the final thing is not saving his girl and then getting the girl”

            I don’t really understand this or maybe I’m just tired. He did save her and he did get the girl. The ship was full of tired tropes. Damsel in distress, boy breaks up with girl to protect her, hero gets girl of his dreams as a trophy after defeating the bad guy, man thinks he knows what’s best for the woman so he tries to stop her from putting herself in danger, etc. I find their dynamics very disturbing.

          • DoraNympha

            Yeah there are tired tropes but they got together after a Quidditch win, not when Harry saved Ginny from the diary riddle or when he defeated Voldemort. She’s not a reward and it’s not really Harry trying to protect her but everyone except Fred and George treating Ginny like she has to be protected. Other than that, I find them boring rather than disturbing. I’ve never understood why it’s a bad thing to date your friend’s sister – would you rather some stranger you don’t know dates your sibling or someone you know well and love as a friend and trust? I don’t get why it’s so weird for Harry to like Ginny at all other than it is one of those forced sit-com problems.

          • Lisa

            “She’s not a reward and it’s not really Harry trying to protect her but everyone except Fred and George treating Ginny like she has to be protected.”
            Maybe. But you’d expect her soul mate and her one true to respect her abilities and understand that being treated like a child annoys her. The fact that Hinny is such a weak ship gives Harmony more wind beneath the wings. Why do you think the movies focused so much on Harmony’s chemistry and so little on the Hinny romantic moments?

            It’s not a bad thing to date your friend’s sister, at all. It’s only the “bro code” which forbids this but the bro code needs to be buried in an unmarked grave anyway.

          • DoraNympha

            The movies did that for the same reasons why everyone is way better looking than they should be and why Hermione’s dress and colour coding in general are pink and why Hermione steals all of Ron’s insighful lines and even some of Dumbledore’s ones while Ron gets lame jokes, and why Ron and Harry don’t hug in the nonexistent goodbye scene only Hermione and Harry, and why Beauxbatons is all girls and Durmstrang is all boys, and why instead of Harry revealing every important plot point to those still alive after the battle in a satisfying final dance and a single exchange of curses there is an awful guy fight and Voldemort disintegrating into ash on screen.

            Because it’s a Warner Bros. movie. Not saying they would definitely not have made the same mistakes if the adaptation was an ITV miniseries, and I guess we should be happy most of the production in practice was on British ground, but it’s still basically a Hollywood movie franchise.

  • HowAmIGoingToTranslateThis

    when it was mentioned that there is a fanfic about every combination of two persons in the books, I tried to come up with a pairing that I’m sure has not been done before:
    Mafalda Hopkirk & Mary Cattermole.

    there must be more.

    • DoraNympha

      Omg we play that with my partner when we’re bored. Unfortunately, after the Giant Squid/Hogwarts fic, there is little we can come up with.

      Florean and Petunia?
      Marge and Umbridge?
      Winky and Luna?
      Dudley and Rosmerta?

      No, this doesn’t feel right as anything other than passing time after enough drinks so your heart doesn’t sink when it turns out some fanfic writer has already beaten you to it… The internet is weird.

      That said, it’s better to come up with obscure pairings that aren’t super weird but actually plausible. Where’s my Mme Hooch/Grubbly-Plank romance story? That accountant Weasley cousin and the paper shop girl they mentioned in A Very Frosty Christmas in HBP?

  • DoraNympha

    Whenever I watch DHp2, I can usually hold my tongue until Neville says he has to confess his love for Luna just out of the blue. Everytime I see that I can think of another thing they cut from the movie that was canonical and would have been really important to see or just a better sideplot to show. They literally cut the whole Percy arc – I am actually just squinting to catch him kind of walk into the Great Hall in the blurry background, which is all they made the effort for in the script – and then even that gets lost between camera angles in the final cut and we only see it in the behind the scenes footage/documentaries. And then I have to correct everyone that it is not Fred but George we see drop his wand (AS IF HE, A BEATER, WOULD EVER DROP HIS WAND), and then that whole plotline with Fred just doesn’t happen. Tonks and Lupin only have their baby and rush into battle in the deleted scenes. Dean couldn’t even stand in the cellar of the Manor without lines to say. Pettigrew’s non-death – oh good god don’t even get me started on that.

    But sure, it was important to waste those precious seconds on Neville and Luna when everyone knows they were not endgame. Shhh listen… I hear a curse in the distance… oh no… it can’t be… Heteronormativity? Not you again…

  • I think there was a setup for Luna having a thing for Ron when they first meet on the train in Book 5.

  • I love how Alison was tying to imply that she thinks Neville and Luna boned, but couldn’t get further than saying “had fun” multiple, multiple times.

  • NewbornFawkes

    I am relatively new to the world of Podcasts and Alohomora. I would have started listening to podcasts much sooner if I had realized how many Harry Potter related podcasts there are. I absolutely love Alohomora!

    Now on to the topic at hand-

    I have always found shipping and ship wars very interesting. I didn’t know the extent of them until later on in my fandom experience. I am someone who takes the author’s words and vision as is. It is not up to me to decide what happens to someone else’s characters. For that reason though I can also appreciate fanfics. I have appreciation for what someone else can see or feel. I definitely don’t always agree or can see it myself but I still enjoy the viewpoint. I personally love Harry and Ginny together and Ron and Hermione. I have no trouble seeing it and love how it brings them all together forever. Harry gets his family and becomes related to his best friends. Ginny gets her fairy tale romance and a sister. Ron gets his best friend as a brother and the girl he loves. Hermione gets a lot of siblings and the guy she has had feelings for the whole time. Are they perfect? Of course not, no relationship is but for me it gives my beloved characters a happy ending after the end of a pretty dark 7 book series where not much good happens for them.

    I think it is easy to view ships based on how we personally view love, friendship, enemies, etc. I love the canon pairings because they are happy endings and I believe in what JK wrote. They all make sense to me. There are so many different types of relationships that the possibilities are endless. Nothing fits a perfect mold or model or formula so who is to say any ship is or isn’t possible. I love reading the comments to see everyone’s take on the subject!

  • TheViewFromVenus

    Okay, but I am the only one who thinks it was a horrible idea on Jo Rowling planning to introduce Harry/Ginny in the book where she focuses on love potions? I spent the entire time reading half-blood prince convinced that someone, maybe Ginny, gave Harry a love potion.